Forum:Oceana State Council

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Welcome / Witeate
Alright, let's set up this thing already :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 18:13, August 1, 2013 (UTC)
 * Mmm.. Just noticed I've got nearly an absolute majority (64%) :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 18:21, August 1, 2013 (UTC)
 * Woo! 1 seat! :L Hoffmann LogoCNP2.png Kunarian TALK 19:01, August 1, 2013 (UTC)
 * Yes, I've always been very generous --O u WTBsjrief-mich 06:17, August 2, 2013 (UTC)

Fixing and expanding the current Chapter 2: Regulations concerning construction
I might as well pass this without your approval, but still I consider it better to consult you guys for an opinion first :P

Comments / Komentar
If you can't read the Oshenna version, I also made an English version especially for you guys :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 07:41, August 2, 2013 (UTC)

Considering environmentalism shouldn't there be a longer period in which a Governor can refuse a planning permission in Article 1? And in Article 1 section 3, shouldn't the owner of the property (if it is a private owner) to be demolished give the Governor a weeks (or less?) notice before it occurs so the Governor can understand why and what is going on along with giving the chance to protest the demolition or not.

Why are buildings constructed before 1930 considered to need protection? Hoffmann Kunarian TALK 13:14, August 2, 2013 (UTC)
 * @environmentalism: well, I've actually done that for practical reasons. On-wiki, a week time is rather much. If someone creates, let's say, a farm in Dubnitz. Should he have to wait a month before he's sure it ain't deleted?
 * @1.3: so the Governor can understand why and what is going on along with giving the chance to protest the demolition or not > I don't really understand this. Especially the why and what is going on along with ... part :P
 * @1930: they don't háve to be protected, it is just that in case the building is put forward for monumental state, it is a criterium that says it should get it. For reasons of continuity, people feel at home in their neighborhood, and the oldest buildings typically carry an emotional value to the local people (and not all Oceana people per se). Therefore we should consider this a criterium. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 14:12, August 2, 2013 (UTC)
 * Although I believe all matters from now on should be put to all respective state councils, I'm glad you did :p even though you do have a large majority and don't really need to propose it to us one voters :P. I approve of the changes.Marcus/Michael Villanova 14:19, August 2, 2013 (UTC)
 * I know, but I prefer not to be a dictator. If everybody says it's a bad idea; it probably is :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 14:32, August 2, 2013 (UTC)
 * Heh. :L anyways seems alright, about 1.3: what I meant was they should have to notify the Governor, as a matter of formality and to keep track of who's wanting to demolish what and where. Hoffmann LogoCNP2.png Kunarian TALK 14:34, August 2, 2013 (UTC)
 * Well, they should always ask the governor, cuz without permission they can not demolish it. So, I think it works just fine. As long as the governor does not say it's okay, it is not okay :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 09:14, August 5, 2013 (UTC)

It is good I think! Bart K (talk) 16:59, August 3, 2013 (UTC)

Vote / Lasovating

 * 15 seats/saytels. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 13:45, August 6, 2013 (UTC)
 * 1 seat/seat Marcus/Michael Villanova 13:47, August 6, 2013 (UTC) (does it matter if I vote even xD :P)
 * Not really, but I appreciate your efforts :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 13:49, August 6, 2013 (UTC)

ACCEPTED / EVIKELDATTEN

State Councillor Order / Desqueráterlista
Yes, Kunar always has the best ideas first :P Anyway, we need a SCO too. Please add to the following list:


 * Conservative Christian Party of Lovia:
 * Oos Wes Ilava
 * Michael Cromwood
 * George Hlond
 * Jonathan Kelmný
 * Flint Kojdova
 * Harry Ský-Hrád
 * Party New Oceana:
 * Jonas Opať
 * Maria Westhorn
 * Mitchell Creep
 * Karl Lamentier
 * Parti fo Nesavicelost 'Oshenna:
 * Petar Hustróva
 * Boy Whithdonck
 * Heyl Hrádske
 * Viktor Ludovik Lenka
 * Natsionalistiski Parti 'Oshenna:
 * Thom Shadenki
 * Ludovik Umachist
 * Ron Dzalki
 * Margret Bača
 * Limburgish Minority Party:
 * Lambaer Maose
 * Joes van Lin
 * Truu Windjhoeare-Löbber
 * Reformed Traditional Party:
 * Levi Smithsky
 * Social Liberal Party:
 * Petr Gambrin
 * Positive Lovia:
 * Julian Atkey
 * Konservatni an Natsionalistiski Parti 'Oshenna:
 * Edward Cromwood

We're complete now :) --O u WTBsjrief-mich 08:30, August 5, 2013 (UTC)

Precision within Chapter 1; Article 2: State Government
Changes in bold.

Comments / Komentar
In order to make State Elections more local, I've added this. It basically means that a political party running for the State Council should either have "Oceana" or "Oshenna" in its name, or own an office/headquarters in Oshenna (good for the selling of property). --O u WTBsjrief-mich 09:08, August 5, 2013 (UTC)
 * Seems logical, rules seem good, I'm pro. Hoffmann LogoCNP2.png Kunarian TALK 09:40, August 5, 2013 (UTC)
 * You know considering all this I'm thinking of making a seperate CNP affiliated part for Oceana, similar to the situation between the CDU and CSU in Germany. Hoffmann LogoCNP2.png Kunarian TALK 11:09, August 5, 2013 (UTC)
 * More like MCP-PNO and LP-NPO? --O u WTBsjrief-mich 11:26, August 5, 2013 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I'll also be turning one of my representatives in Congress to the party. I think I'll call it something like the "Konservatni an Natsionalistiski Parti 'Oshenna" as to distinguish itself from the more general conservatives and the so called nationalists in the NPO. It'll follow a liberal-ish economic policy line and a conservative-progressive mixed social policy. Hoffmann LogoCNP2.png Kunarian TALK 11:34, August 5, 2013 (UTC)
 * What will its stance be on Oceana regionalism/separatism? --O u WTBsjrief-mich 11:44, August 5, 2013 (UTC)
 * It'd want an autonomous Oceana along with a discussion about the Oceana sections of Sylvania and ask for a vote so that the people in the Oceana sections of Sylvania may be allowed to determine their own future. Hoffmann LogoCNP2.png Kunarian TALK 11:56, August 5, 2013 (UTC)
 * Okay, sounds like a party CCPL could collaborate with :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 12:01, August 5, 2013 (UTC)
 * Glad of it. :) Hoffmann LogoCNP2.png Kunarian TALK 12:09, August 5, 2013 (UTC)
 * It's now UL-NPO :P and it seems a tad regionalist, but either I'll go pro or abstain :P Marcus/Michael Villanova 14:11, August 5, 2013 (UTC)
 * Ah yeah, probably gonna make that mistake many times still, thanks for correcting though :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 17:07, August 5, 2013 (UTC)
 * Btw: I like the OceanaCNP logo. I think i'll just vote pro i guess :3 Marcus/Michael Villanova 19:24, August 5, 2013 (UTC)
 * Hahah :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 08:19, August 6, 2013 (UTC)

Vote / Lasovating

 * 15 seats/saytels. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 09:39, August 8, 2013 (UTC)
 * 1 seat. In the hopes that this law ensures Oshenna is governed from Oshenna. Hoffmann LogoCNP2wt.png Kunarian TALK 09:47, August 8, 2013 (UTC)
 * That Lew bude i sloboda! :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 09:56, August 8, 2013 (UTC)

ACCEPTED / EVIKELDATTEN

Protection of local nature
In the past several plans were drawn up concerning the protection of our local nature and local heritage. I would like to re-install these in an official way. See also User talk:Intothewild/Oshenna.

We still have to draw up plans concerning natural protection; as well as protected sights.

For now I would like to start with a plan for the officilization of water body names and natural area names. The list is as follows:

Bart K (talk) 14:23, August 22, 2013 (UTC)

Comments / Komentar
I'll adapt the law in a few secs, so it takes up less room :) --O u WTBsjrief-mich 14:28, August 22, 2013 (UTC)
 * I'll finish the Oceana names for the rivers and forests later on. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 15:06, August 22, 2013 (UTC)

Speaking as Cromwood, this seems like a perfect way to make things official. Hoffmann Kunarian TALK 15:19, August 22, 2013 (UTC)
 * To make what official? :o --O u WTBsjrief-mich 17:25, August 22, 2013 (UTC)
 * Never mind, that was just a stupid remark :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 17:25, August 22, 2013 (UTC)
 * I thought the isle of bratslavia drowned or some junk :P Marcus/Michael Villanova 18:04, August 22, 2013 (UTC)
 * Yes, it did. But there is still a "sandy area" left :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 18:42, August 22, 2013 (UTC)

Vote / Lasovating

 * 15 seats/saytels. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 14:07, August 23, 2013 (UTC)

ACCEPTED / EVIKELDATTEN

2014 Plan
With elections coming in a few months (October), it might be a good idea to already discuss the future of our state. Just to be sure that we're all on one line when I'm probably no longer Oceana's dictator :P

Oceana is the state with the highest unemployment level of Lovia (±10%). While the urban areas cope with a very high unemployment level, up to 14% of East Hills, the rural areas have significantly lower percentages. Therefore, my ambitious plan is to focus on agricultural development, f.e. increased production of grains, wine production, and lavender.

In order to reach this goal, several things should be done and we have to take into account several other things; in my opinion:
 * A neighborhood building stop in Hurbanova and East Hills (at least until 2015).
 * Several hamlets/villages should be appointed as "growth hamlets", f.e. Sternaw.
 * Local traditions and cultures should be safeguarded however. Therefore I propose the building of "peripheral blocks" consisting of several farms near the hamlets, f.e. the place of the former hamlet Ryshembrock could be used for a peripheral block of Bardeyow (a few hundred meters further), which legally still belongs to Bardeyow (so, no need to update the NSO).
 * Btw, don't be afraid of my quickly made-up name "growth hamlet"; they will just grow very smoothly :P
 * Forestal areas should be cleared to make room for agriculture.
 * An Agricultural School should be set up, where pupils can go to after finish Secundary Education.

So, do our candidates for the next SE agree with this? :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 14:27, August 23, 2013 (UTC)

Comments / Komentar
Considering nobody reacted (either nobody cares, or nobody is going to run in the next Oceana SE :P), I consider this plan doable :P I've reread the constitution and federal law, and there's nothing to stop this legally. Therefore, I consider this ACCEPTED / EVIKELDATTEN as well.--O u WTBsjrief-mich 15:27, September 7, 2013 (UTC)

Bus Service Oceana
A quick vote :P

Bus Service Oceana will now be a state-run company that is to provide transportation by bus in Oceana. Private companies, such as InterBus, are still allowed to continue their services. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 14:36, August 23, 2013 (UTC)

Vote / Lasovating

 * 15 seats/saytels. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 14:36, August 23, 2013 (UTC)
 * 1 seat Marcus/Michael Villanova 21:57, August 23, 2013 (UTC) Small speech. II object to this on two levels. First, the BSO has too many lines running too frequently for 40,000 people in Oceana it seems like It will be a definite waste of money. Second, if I (and I will run for and win the governorship of Clymene :P) became governor of Clymene i'd nationalize the entire transportation service. (two internal reasons) First being transportation runs better when government controlled and can adapt to give the citizens better service. Also remember most states have Rail, Ferry, Bus and for 200000 people its way too much, so while I'm a huge supporter of Public Transport managing it well is important as well. Second, I already wrote it on InterBus page (cause I knew this was coming) they can't make a profit, at least buy them out entirely so they can give employes severence and maybe go over to the BSO. That's all i'm saying.
 * 1 seat, I didn't see this, small speech like the above: "BSO is a good idea however I'd prefer if it was run privately as that has been shown to save money not at the detriment of the customer especially when you have a efficient box of regulations to ensure that it's primary concern is the customer otherwise it will face problems. I disagree on the unsupported assertion of my NPO college that government ran transportation is better, personally from experience I understand that transport will run as well as it runs, public or private. Because of this we must work to decrease public costs and increase the ratio of Lovian Dollar to bang for your buck. Additionally I must speak out against any acquisition of Interbus to the BSO, Interbus is a failing private company and the BSO is a public service we should not subsidise the Villanovas because they can't be bothered to try and provide a good service alongside public services. I finish in saying that I will be able to withdraw my objections in the future should we establish proper law in Oceana to ensure that this service is properly administrated and is properly run to provide services to a good standard and to ensure that possibilities to reduce costs are explored. Until then I must say that this is a point on which I feel Oceana is not getting the best deal it could." - Edward Cromwood Hoffmann LogoCNP2wt.png Kunarian TALK 15:38, September 7, 2013 (UTC)

ACCEPTED / EVIKELDATTEN

Discussion / Slapemortel
Well Marcus, there is a reason why I want it this way. First of all, in Oceana, we only have buses and a single railway (to be expanded to two railways). Secondly, this is not about making money, this is about providing services to the rural areas. If you read my plan above, you'll see that I plan to make more use of our rural areas. By making them accessible by providing decent transportation, people might be more convinced to go living at the country-side :) Thirdly, the buses that run through the country-side are not 25-person buses, but smaller 8 to 14 person buses.

To your last remark, if you want me to buy out InterBus, that's no problem :) --O u WTBsjrief-mich 08:42, August 24, 2013 (UTC)

I meant buy out InterBus for the state :P Marcus/Michael Villanova 15:15, August 24, 2013 (UTC) Additionally we are missing out on a quite major opportunity to lower unemployment in Oceana by lining the pockets of the Villanovas, whom act against a lot of things many Oceana believe in. Rather than buy out InterBus which should reform it's service and ensure its employees jobs and customers its service, we should employ unemployed Oceana and provide them with the chance to get into the jobs market and get skills and experience. This is a situation where we must put Oceana first and not the interests of special interests." - Edward Cromwood Hoffmann Kunarian TALK 16:13, September 7, 2013 (UTC)
 * Please elaborate on that :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 16:13, August 24, 2013 (UTC)
 * Since the public sector now has a monopoly on public transport and willing to take a loss, Interbus cannot survive. Which will go to one of two options. First closing completely and then jobs lost and such and buses and stuff go to waste. Or buy out the Oceana section of InterBus at least we can give our drivers larger severences or transfer over to the OBS. Marcus/Michael Villanova 17:20, August 24, 2013 (UTC)
 * Yes, that was my idea. If we could transfer people/materials from Interbus to BSO, that'd be great :) --O u WTBsjrief-mich 12:36, August 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * For a modest buyout of course. I'll change the InterBus page :P Marcus/Michael Villanova 14:26, August 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * Okay :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 14:32, August 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * I hope this did not occur. Villanova has been subsidised by the State of Oceana for his own failures, this is not in the interest of Oceana but rather in his own private interests. Hoffmann LogoCNP2wt.png Kunarian TALK 15:40, September 7, 2013 (UTC)
 * When you nationalize an industry you take up all the private institutions so a more powerful government ran monopoly just doesn't run a business into the ground. Doesn't that make any sense? Marcus/Michael Villanova 16:09, September 7, 2013 (UTC)
 * "I disagree, BSO was running different routes and times to InterBus, the important role InterBus played to some Oceana is gone. InterBus should have adapted and ensured it's employees jobs and its service to its customers (the latter it has most certainly failed) rather than its owners using its political contacts in the NPO to line their own pockets. Additionally I believe that if the CCPL does not bring legislation forwards soon concerning the BSO to ensure it operates to certain standards and operates its service in a correct manner then the KNPO will have to take up the mantle for Oceana.
 * This is the same thing with the Monarchy battle you seem to think our population is around 20 million, it's 200.000 and I think like 40,000 in Oceana. Two competing bus lines would mean one getting one rider a line, and the other getting a decent amount, or each spiltting riders and both failing. I for once would like some actual evidence of "Pocket lineing" you always speak of. You seem to either live in a dimension not on this earth (Stephen Hawking may help you indentify which one) or simply not pay attention. I should warn everyone in the Oceana State Council not to light a match because already the false dramatic acting of the KNPO has led to many straw men being thrown out ASAP. And then he ends with a statement, as always, claiming it knows best and will do the best for (insert state, city, location, whatever or what was put there first before he revises his statements). Marcus/Michael Villanova 16:24, September 7, 2013 (UTC)
 * "There are no strawmen here, the main benefactor of a purchase of the Oceana branch of InterBus is the Villanova family, the social effects of this decision must be considered. Additionally there was no statement saying I knew best rather one stating a way forwards that we believe is the right way forwards for Oceana, legislating to properly ensure that BSO has a strong and structured method via which it operates as part of this government would benefit this state government and those in the future. It is not my fault that the KNPO has ideas to go forwards whereas his party has not. And again the member from the NPO seems to fail to see that InterBus was providing different times and routes to the BSO and so there is no reason to merge it into BSO via state purchase, additionally we stand to gain more as a State by not doing so. Going back to my point on how to go forwards, soaking up the currently unemployed Oceana would put much more state money into the hands of national Oceana who need it and would benefit the state by providing skills to our residents. Rather than taking on a company which can survive perfectly on its own we should support our people and give them funding to go forwards and re enter the jobs market as soon as possible." - Edward Cromwood. Hoffmann LogoCNP2wt.png Kunarian TALK 16:39, September 7, 2013 (UTC)

(edc) Mmm.. Sort of agree with Marcus though :P I see it as following, InterBus will almost surely go bankrupt if BSO opens its services. This will lead to more unemployment. Therefore, it is best to do it as following: InterBus does either a huge reform, or it ceases its activities in Oceana. Surplus materials (buses, employees, etc) may be transfered to BSO (payment for buses, employees simply move to another employer). This way, we prevent a high number of people losing their jobs, and we prevent materials to be wasted and extra (unnecessary) expenses to be made.

Also, it is a sign of good-will to InterBus, which has been active in Oceana for years, and we very much appreciate that. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 16:25, September 7, 2013 (UTC)
 * "If the CCPL is determined to continue with the purchasing the InterBus of Oceana, the decision should be debated in this chamber and the price we pay should be debated by all members of this council to ensure that we have the best deal. I agree with some of the points that you have made however I still feel that there are better alternatives. At least in the end we shall pay the employees of InterBus better than they ever were under the Villanova family." - Edward Cromwood Hoffmann LogoCNP2wt.png Kunarian TALK 16:39, September 7, 2013 (UTC)
 * Alright, Iĺl soon present a plan of purchase :) --O u WTBsjrief-mich 16:42, September 7, 2013 (UTC)
 * "I commend the good member of CCPL for his motion." - Edward Cromwood Hoffmann LogoCNP2wt.png Kunarian TALK 16:44, September 7, 2013 (UTC)

Plan / Roshver
InterBus That'd mean we pay InterBus $2.5 million. Sounds reasonable to me.
 * Bus Service Oceana - 24 lines, which need approx. 15 per line=360 bus drivers (incl. part-time workers), all can be transfered from InterBus.
 * From InterBus, we'll buy over 20 middle-sized buses, 10 big-size buses, and 40 small buses; all new buses in perfect state. Total costs: 20×30=600, 10×60=600, 40×15=600, 8+7+8+3-5=16+7-5=1.800.000.
 * Mechanics, nothing to transfer from IB.
 * Other materials/parts: roughly 400.000
 * Extra grant to IB for its services, and unemployment payments, let's say 300.000

Other purchases: Total other: $1 million.
 * Workplace and offices, as well as halts have already been installed.
 * We can buy some older cheap buses from Europe and Mäöres: 10 middle-sized buses for 200.000, 20 small buses for 200.000, 10 family-size cars for transport for 50,000. Total: 2+2+.5=450.000
 * Additionally: mechanics to hire, let's say 15, as well as office personel, let's say 10.
 * Any other purchase, let's say 300,000
 * Updating buses 250,000

Total: $3.500.000. All agreed on this? :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 17:08, September 7, 2013 (UTC)
 * The InterBus buses are going to A) be used and imperfect and B) have InterBus symbols and stuff on them. We should lower how much we pay for them due to the possible changes to both the bus itself structurally as well as superficially. Additionally I'm not aware of what buses InterBus actually has so we'll need to look into that. On the materials/parts, I would feel that InterBus would not have 500,000 worth of materials and parts, closer to 200,000 to 300,000. Other than that I cannot see any problems thus far. Hoffmann LogoCNP2wt.png Kunarian TALK 17:20, September 7, 2013 (UTC)
 * Updated. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 17:23, September 7, 2013 (UTC)
 * I've just looked into the buses, they seem to have only one type of bus, which seems to be big or medium-size electric buses. This might be good, we can purchase cheaper buses from Europe and Maores and can instead buy 10 big size and 30 middle sized from IB and then 60 small buses and 10 family size cars from Europe/Maores. This'd work out better for IB (considering what they have, we can't buy small buses that don't exist) and for us I do believe. Hoffmann LogoCNP2wt.png Kunarian TALK 17:25, September 7, 2013 (UTC)