Talk:Conservative Christian Party of Lovia

Nice! -- 09:34, December 12, 2009 (UTC)
 * You knew you could also run for Congress without a party (non-partisan)? -- 09:40, December 12, 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes, I knew :P --O u WTB 09:44, December 12, 2009 (UTC)
 * Okay. 09:44, December 12, 2009 (UTC)

No, it's not offensive ;) --O u WTB 09:55, December 12, 2009 (UTC)
 * . -- 10:01, December 12, 2009 (UTC)
 * "LOWIA" --Bucurestean 13:50, December 12, 2009 (UTC)
 * Inspiracioun è :P --O u WTB 14:04, December 12, 2009 (UTC)
 * Yeah, with your reference to Pim Fortuyn :S --Bucurestean 14:05, December 12, 2009 (UTC)
 * ? Why that? --O u WTB 14:10, December 12, 2009 (UTC)
 * "List". ;) --Bucurestean 14:24, December 12, 2009 (UTC)
 * Ow :P No, that's from the former name "Lijst Geert Wilders". --O u WTB 14:25, December 12, 2009 (UTC)
 * Pfff you're a crazy one. --Bucurestean 14:29, December 12, 2009 (UTC)
 * Je sais, but I do have OwtbBot! :P --O u WTB 14:33, December 12, 2009 (UTC)

Member accused for sockpuppetry
What are we going to do with William Johnson? --Bucurestean 17:02, January 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * Pfff.. Let's await if it's really sockpuppetry. --O u WTB 18:24, January 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * He seems to be one Pierlot McCrooke 18:26, January 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * (edit conflict) Well, we probably won't know . The guy is blocked (= Sannse's advice). There is some evidence on Wikipedia about a connection between this Johnson and Donia Dude, but I'm not sure where to find that. 18:26, January 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * I don't know what to do with it right now. I hope you can understand I've got more important things to do right now (such as reading some English literature.. tomorrow I have to send in a nice boekverslag :P) --O u WTB 18:29, January 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * Oh right . If there's anything I can do for you, just say so . I am supposed to become an English literature geek! 18:31, January 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * No, I'll just read a samenvatting and a few random pages of the book as usual (((A))) --O u WTB 18:33, January 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * Which book? 18:34, January 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * Don't know yet. I'll go get it tomorrow. (the library of the big city of Montfort has been founded by my grandfather, so we've got the keys :P) --O u WTB 19:01, January 9, 2010 (UTC)

Congratulations with the elections
Watching the exit polls with a couple of hours to go, I want to congratulate you already with your results. Oos Wes Ilava has proven himself and got a new chance to shine in the Congress. I'm convinced that Lovia will have the possibility to enjoy more of this democratic party and its party leader in the near future. We wish you all the good luck in the coming year in the Congress! In name of the LD. --Bucurestean 17:36, January 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * Thankee shön. I'm happy that the Lovians decided to give us (well, us... :P) a chance in the congress of 2010. I also wish the LD good luck and wise decisions in the coming year! :) --O u WTBsjrief-mich 18:37, January 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * Same for me. Congratulations! 06:59, January 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * Congratulations on behalf of the PD too. Also, I would like to invite you in a 'five point dialogue' about the reform that awaits us. It seems best to me if we first talk about a shared proposal, instead of each making our own proposal in Congress. 11:32, January 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * Thank you! I also wish the PD and our king good luck and wise decisions in the coming year! :) --O u WTBsjrief-mich 17:57, January 28, 2010 (UTC)

Conservative
It's actually quite ironic, but your viewpoints are often inspired by social democracy or moderate progressivism. What shall I do with my political chart? 19:55, May 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * That's why I asked ye to put me more to the left ;) Let's keep me where I am now, 'cause it still tends more towards conservativity than to progressivism. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 19:58, May 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yes yes, indeed, I know that . You take in quite a peculiar position. On the one side, you're rather homophobic, pro-family values and traditions, regionalist and pro free market. But then, you support easy immigration policy, low treshold health care, political reform, referenda, etc. You know, you make it tough on me to make my chart ;), but most of all it makes me happy. I like political independents. 20:00, May 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * Hhaha :P Think Conservatively Christian progressive party would have been a petter name :D --O u WTBsjrief-mich 20:03, May 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * Lol. What about "Just Me Party"?  20:05, May 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * Haha :P I actually wanted to get rid of my führer-image at LOWIA :D --O u WTBsjrief-mich 20:05, May 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * I watched a documentary on Wilders' populism last night. Oh I hate that kind of guys  20:09, May 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * With the EU elections Wilders was at my first place with the stemwijzer :P But now he has dropped: 1. was shared by CDA and SGP (:P), 2. was shared by Rita Verdonk and Geertje, 3. was ChristenUnie :D --O u WTBsjrief-mich 20:10, May 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * Verdonk? Lol. 20:15, May 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * I can't understand Verdonk anyhow, so she doesn't get me vote :P Nor does Geertje, 'cause he has dropped :D CDA is too neutral and CU is too left, so SGP it'll be (even though I'm catholic :P) --O u WTBsjrief-mich 20:17, May 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * You're voting gereformeerd? That's funny   20:18, May 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * At least they're christian :D --O u WTBsjrief-mich 20:20, May 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * Lol. One of my top reasons not to vote for a party . Anyway, I'm off! See ya, 20:21, May 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * Hahaha :D Thanks for the logo and goodbye :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 20:22, May 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * That stemwijzer is nonsense. Every time I get the same, it's dissatisfying and making me hopless: SP and PVV, the two extremes haha . The stemwijzer is really select as there are only 30 questions, in my opinion it may not be at all the motivation to decide to vote for somebody. Besides, some questions are really crap, while there are plenty of other important issues like foreign politics or economy. What does that bother me, "Mensen in dienst van de overheid mogen tijdens hun werk geen hoofddoek dragen.", for God's sake! :P Just leave the whole Islam thing out, we're in the middle of an economically hard period here... Bucu 09:00, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
 * Hahah, you should check all boxes except those concerning islam at the end, where they ask for which you find the most important :D --O u WTBsjrief-mich 09:02, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
 * Come on, there are still plenty of other important issues in this country . The whole political agenda is just fucked up. Bucu 09:04, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
 * That's why I'm in favor of abolishing politics IRL; it has become a game in which you only have to say idiot things and get enough money in 4 years time to live the coming 20 years in relative wealth.. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 09:09, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
 * Now you sound like a Greek communist idiot :P Bucu 09:11, May 24, 2010 (UTC)


 * 1) PVV
 * 2) Verdonk
 * 3) VVD
 * 4) SGP
 * 5) CDA

En dat terwijl ik bij alle islam-punten pro-islam was (behalve bij hoofddoek dragen in dienst bij de overheid :P) en vind dat de winkels op zondag gewoon open moeten :P. Maarja, twee populisten wegstrepen en ik kom uit bij de VVD, dus dat kan nog wel ;) Bucu 09:08, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
 * :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 09:14, May 24, 2010 (UTC)

Yay!!!
This is the former LOWIA i see well here's one more member. Alexey Hovlouchuk, it's up to you if you want to put him on the member list. Marcus Villanova 20:58, May 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * I'll sleep a night on it ;) have to go now :) goodbye --O u WTBsjrief-mich 21:02, May 23, 2010 (UTC)

Bliep, bliep, PING!
You probably wont be surprised I was watching the movements of the LD carefully but now you are more than just a 'bliep' on my radar, you're a PING! now. The CPL.nm, and without doubt many others, will consider you a political enemy (in stead of opponent). Don't take it to personal when I make a charge. 06:50, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
 * Why can't we live together in a peacful Christian world with Christian morals and Christians values :'( --O u WTBsjrief-mich 07:52, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
 * Because Christian values and morals are ambiguous, dangerous, multi-interpretable, homophobic things? Why don't we live together in a peaceful world with universal morals and universal values, under law and order, with the protection of our universal rights and freedoms?  07:57, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
 * You're not my enemy, by the way . I'm centrist, so only those in the corners are my enemies . 08:01, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
 * If you would leave out The CCPL opposes legalization of euthanasia, abortion, prostitution, drugs, gay marriages and adoption of children by gay couples and They are entitled to vote at elections, but may not participate in elections, as that is contradictive to the vocation of women we would actually be more left than LD :D --O u WTBsjrief-mich 08:04, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
 * I know, but everyone who beliefs in 'the vocation of woman' as a political argument can consider him/herself as a (political) enemy of mine. Such conservative values are very not-of-this-time. Why can't we all live in a relativist world where people try to do good, make decisions based on reason and understanding and leave behind constructed differences such as religion, ethnicity and gender? Oh right, because those constructed differences have brainwashed over 90% of the world population.  08:53, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
 * It indeed depends on where and with whom you've grown up. As I'm not grown up in a godverlaten, dissoluut oord, I know the correct morals and values, in contrast to you :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 08:59, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm raised in a 'godvergeten gat' too, went to a christian school and have moderate christian parents. I had to educate myself to find the right left values. 09:01, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
 * That's probably where the error lies :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 09:03, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
 * The values of your party really make me shiver. I see you incorporated brainwashing lessons in your program. How nice of you to make sure the children of Lovia find the correct values. Luckily most MOTC have a corrupted value system so you wont be able to push these things trough. Just for the record: gay marriage and adoption by gay couples are allowed in Lovia since they aren't forbidden. 09:08, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
 * I know, and that's why I considered it a testimonial party ;) --O u WTBsjrief-mich 09:10, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
 * Well, a system in which hard-working people get the same reward as a toilet cleaner can also be called rotten. Bucu 09:12, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
 * I never asked for such a system. Nonetheless I think we need more gay people in Lovia. And hey, why don't you write this in your party program: 'government should save at least a 1000 souls a year and assure their save passage to heaven'?
 * :'( --O u WTBsjrief-mich 09:17, May 24, 2010 (UTC)

Applying
09:26, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
 * Name: Yuri Medvedev
 * Religious background: raised christian but got lost long ago; I think religion is a fictional construct of mankind
 * Gender: male; can females even join? (PS: it should be sexes, since 'gender' refers to the pattern of institutionalized roles and behavior that is expected by society)
 * Short motivation: I don't really want to join but thought I'd give it a try anyway
 * Not accepted: you are already a member of a different party :P Otherwise I would have considered letting you in ;) --O u WTBsjrief-mich 09:29, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks, but can you fix the sex/gender thing. I just corrected it in the inhabitant infobox too. 09:30, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
 * Hey Yuri what you said up there about gender/sex really touched me. Also boys no more word "lady," only "women" :) Christina Evans 09:37, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
 * Being polite is important but being correct even more so. I don't think saying women is a bad thing ('vrouw' in Dutch) as long as you leave behind any negative connotation. When I say woman I mean 'someone of the female sex', not 'a hot thing that has to wear a dress and diet to keep a nice figure' for that would be gender in contemporary western society. 09:41, May 24, 2010 (UTC)

Bye
It really surprised me when I noticed you were gone, well not really gone but you get the point. I hope you have finally found what you were looking for. May our parties work together well. Harold Freeman 10:01, May 25, 2010 (UTC)
 * It does proportion Congress quite well :
 * LD - 4
 * CPL.nm - 3
 * WLP - 3
 * CCPL - 1
 * LLCP - 1
 * independents - 3


 * (including the candidates currently above the Red Line)
 * Looks quite well-proportioned to me :) 11:03, May 25, 2010 (UTC)
 * :) --O u WTBsjrief-mich 15:05, May 25, 2010 (UTC)
 * + 1 NLS, thus: Commies - 4 :| Bucu 15:07, May 25, 2010 (UTC)
 * A divided left flank = very realistic, lots of lefties in Congress = not so very realistic.  15:09, May 25, 2010 (UTC)

Are we missing some Republicans here or do we have some of that same dough in Lovia? --Lars Washington 15:45, May 25, 2010 (UTC)
 * Nobody ever needs the GOP here . -- 15:57, May 25, 2010 (UTC)
 * AMEN DO YOU REALLY WANT SARAH PALINA OVER HERE?!?!?!?!?Marcus Villanova[[Image:Flag of Lovia Small.png|border|20px]] 21:10, May 25, 2010 (UTC)
 * Of course not because she is in politics which is in conflict with her 'vocation'.  05:29, May 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * Or DO YOU WANT THIS--


 * As you see i really HATE republicans... sorry i get to hyped...Marcus Villanova[[Image:Flag of Lovia Small.png|border|20px]] 21:20, May 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * oh and BYE OTWB we'll miss yall... lol!Marcus Villanova[[Image:Flag of Lovia Small.png|border|20px]] 21:29, May 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * I don't like his ideas either but the break-away seriously weakened the LD (no offense guys but OWTB was your number one man in Congress). Perhaps my good old friend Harold could fill in the gap? 10:39, May 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * Hahaha, because I didn't do anything? :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 14:38, May 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * You did make a lot of comments (or must I say critics). You are also easy noticed when you vote contra a lot.  14:54, May 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * Hahah, no, Alexandru is the real star for voting contra :D --O u WTBsjrief-mich 14:58, May 27, 2010 (UTC) (cause he votes contra even if a minor point isn't excactly as he wants :P)
 * It is a major loss for the LD nonetheless. It is like I would leave the CPL, still good members left but not the most active ones (no offense guys, you're wonderful comrades!) 15:01, May 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * I wasn't a member of the LD, but of LOWIA, so actually I only broke the LD-LOWIA coalition :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 15:04, May 27, 2010 (UTC)

Criticism
This party is really discriminating women and homosexual people with some of its plans Pierlot McCrooke 09:18, August 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * Indeed, hence the words 'conservative' and 'christian' in the name. 09:55, August 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * Surprise surprise. 10:02, August 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * :'( --O u WTBsjrief-mich 10:54, August 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * Just don't take it personal 'cause it's not ;-) 11:03, August 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * As my grandpa said "Once you like politics you've sold your soul to the devil!" In the sense it's bis nothing personal (I think that's a Dr. Dre Quote... lol) Marcus Villanova WLP [[Image:Flag of Lovia Small.png|border|20px]] 14:09, August 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * I defenitely don't like the female discrimination thingy... Martha Van Ghent 15:43, August 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * Nor do I. Oppression of women is something for wussies. I said! Percival E. Galahad 15:43, August 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * No-one of us, except the members of the CCPL, do so. Nevertheless, it's their right to propose to change that . But as OWTB pointed out, it's a "testimonial party", not intending to actually change a thing. (Cos they can't.) 18:32, August 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * Too bad, the Lovian Kingdom of Christ sounded like an admirable concept to me.  08:13, August 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * Well, let's wait 'till the final judgement è :P --`O u WTBsjrief-mich 08:16, August 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * Sure and in the mean time we can work on the socialist paradise. 08:18, August 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * Why? :( --O u WTBsjrief-mich 08:22, August 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * Because there is war, poverty, hatred, ... if we have to wait till judgement day there wont be much happy folks left to judge. Create a positive environment and people will find positiveness in their souls. (I believe that's Buddhist talk) 08:24, August 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * Those things can easily be explained: as long as there are people not listening to the word of God there will be war, poverty, hatred. We indeed should create a positive environment using Christian morals and values :) --O u WTBsjrief-mich 08:36, August 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * Like install the Pope as a dictator, right? I think this one has experience with absolute obedience and respect for authority so maybe we should take a shot at it. Christian and socialist values don't differ that much. 08:40, August 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * Indeed, we both have the same goal: equality and respect for everything which needs to be respected (for socialist this means excluding capitalism and for christians this means excluding all those things summed up on this page :P) --O u WTBsjrief-mich 08:47, August 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * The biggest difference lies in the way these values are acquired. Perhaps your party grows now the LD is gone? Walden surely got the grease of the goose. 08:51, August 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * Perhaps :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 09:15, August 9, 2010 (UTC)

Applying (2)

 * Name: Semyon Breyev
 * Religious background: Christian
 * Sex: Male
 * Motivation: I want to join a party which is based on God's principles rather than humans'. Is that enough? I can expand if you like. Semyon E. Breyev 12:45, August 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * It discrminates women Pierlot McCrooke 14:37, August 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * That sure is a pity. -- 14:46, August 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * It doesn't discrminate it just wan't to keep them safe i guess the wording was bad! But still if your conservative you could just join the Capitalist Party, I created it to tie up a loose end! It's a local Party but you could make it major! Marcus Villanova WLP [[Image:Flag of Lovia Small.png|border|20px]] 14:53, August 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * Accepted :) --O u WTBsjrief-mich 15:10, August 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * Cool two members now awesome, I guess all the crap about women doesn't stop anyone! JK I still think that it's worded very wierdly and that's why people comment. But people are talking about it so that's good ! Marcus Villanova WLP [[Image:Flag of Lovia Small.png|border|20px]] 15:13, August 10, 2010 (UTC)\
 * Tho I must say even our most legal conservative patries are sorta liberal, that's why i like Europe and Lovia ! Marcus Villanova WLP [[Image:Flag of Lovia Small.png|border|20px]] 15:18, August 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * Indeed, it's like dogs: negative attention also is attention! :) --O u WTBsjrief-mich 15:19, August 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yes very true! So what are you gonna do with the capitalist party I see you put a UC there? Marcus Villanova WLP [[Image:Flag of Lovia Small.png|border|20px]] 15:22, August 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks! @Marcus:I'm not a woman so I don't really care. (only joking of course) Semyon E. Breyev 15:33, August 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * I know! That's awseome hope you have fun at the CCPL...Marcus Villanova WLP [[Image:Flag of Lovia Small.png|border|20px]] 15:35, August 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * You can't use the words 'fun' and 'christian' (or 'conservative') in one truthful sentence unless it is a negation - like mine.  07:22, August 11, 2010 (UTC)

I was wondering if all members have to support the entire program. The parts about economy and education are fine for me but some other elements I do not like that much. Harold Freeman 08:09, August 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * Well eh.. Depends on which parts. :) --O u WTBsjrief-mich 09:03, August 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * If you dissagree that Everyone should be cristian,No gays, no abortion, and no anything but you do agree with marching in lines and stuff then sure... I have nothing agianst conservatisism or stuff (I like diversity) but no religon in politics plaease! I wouldn't mind this party if it was just the Conservative Party of Lovia! Marcus Villanova WLP [[Image:Flag of Lovia Small.png|border|20px]] 23:47, August 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * I do not agree with the restrictions for woman and gay people. I think abortion and euthanasia should be carefully handled but I do not favor a total ban. My opinion is obviously too liberal for a conservative party. Harold Freeman 08:22, August 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * Well, at least you feel these things should be carefully handled. Many liberals are more extreme: abortion is okay, no questions asked. There should be a good reason, right? "I am to poor" or "I do not want kids" is a lousy reason to abort a perfectly healthy baby. Then just have the kid and then give the fruit of your loin away for adoption. Maybe I should join this patrty, to bad I am a buddhist and a communist. :-D BastardRoyale 10:30, August 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * I am a christian but not that inspired by religion. I think rape victims or people with a serious inheritable disease are entitled to have an abortion if they want one. A communist Buddhist? I did not know that was possible :D Harold Freeman 10:44, August 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * It is possible. You see, as a buddhist, I do not care much for my earthly belongings and I am more then willing to share! BastardRoyale 10:49, August 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * I am not that much into socialism or buddhism but is socialism not about giving the people the wealth they deserve while buddhism is about letting go of desire and be happy with being poor? Or is that to much of a caricature? Harold Freeman 10:51, August 12, 2010 (UTC)

Religion and politics
Religion has NO place in politics! It is a bad combination thst is not in the best interest of the poeple. Religion in government is waht leads to fundamentalism. Fundamentalism then leads to a religious state like Iran. This is a a bad thing for Lovia, and for democracy! People of Lovia, this is my message: Do NOT vote for CCPL! Michel-s 20:42, September 17, 2010 (UTC)
 * Please Michel-s stop this annoying rant on every talk page about Un-democratic crap. If not you'll get banned, Thnk you! Marcus Villanova Walden [[Image:Flag of Lovia Small.png|border|20px]] 20:59, September 17, 2010 (UTC)
 * I don't think you are the right person to say that Michel-s. In fact you have not yet done a single useful edit on this site. I believe you are only here to irritate us and that's a bad thing. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 07:42, September 18, 2010 (UTC)
 * Hehee, een moraalridder op Lovia. SjorskingmaWikistad 09:47, September 18, 2010 (UTC)
 * Agreed Michel is kinda getting annyoing Marcus Villanova Walden [[Image:Flag of Lovia Small.png|border|20px]]
 * Please Michel, come with an alternative. Considering your recent attacks on monarchy, fascism, communism and religion I take it that you are yourself some kind of a liberal? Take a look at the Liberal Union and try to change things from within the system.  07:01, September 22, 2010 (UTC)

Applying (3)

 * Name: Ygo August Donia
 * Religious background: Christian
 * Sex: Male
 * Motivation: I am against abortion, I dislike feminism, I believe our nation has way to many atheists and conservatism agrees with me. Dr. Magnus 18:32, October 1, 2010 (UTC)
 * PS: I joined the LCP and it merged and went down. I then joined the NLS and it merged and closed down. I guess God does not want me to be a socialist. He gave me signs... Dr. Magnus 18:33, October 1, 2010 (UTC)
 * Well, if you've found the Light of God, who am I to dim it. As I do not seem to get much support for our big difference (Castle Donia), I'll leave it up to the new governor of Sylvania (as that probably will be BastardR, I guess you ain't got no problem there). Ygo August Donia, welcome to the Conservative Christian Part of Lovia! :) --O u WTBsjrief-mich 06:22, October 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * Wow surprising! Marcus Villanova 23:09, October 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * With the bible in his hand, Ilava will guide Oceana trough these dark times as a bright star on a cloudy night. He has the expertise, and needs all the support he can get. The alternative is: horror, lost morals, loss of culture, the end of civilisation as we know it. Dr. Magnus 17:55, October 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * As long as he doesn't preach some mixed up liberation theology where people get nailed to crosses to free Oceana of the Lovian oppressors it's fine with me.  07:14, October 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yuri, its a long way from being a devout christian to being a fanatical one. ;) Dr. Magnus 08:12, October 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * Good idea Yuri! :P Nah, let's stick to the usual Roman-Catholic stuff ;) --O u WTBsjrief-mich 08:15, October 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * A pitty. But I still can chant devote songs in Latin if you are elected governor, can I? 08:35, October 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * Sure ye can man. We're gonna keep the constitution things and that includes freedom of speech and chanting :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 09:04, October 10, 2010 (UTC)

Party reform
I have tried to keep it conservative and Christian, but also tried to make it more progressive and more to the center. Therefor I have left many notes like "Party members are free to make their own decision about ...". I really want to know whether this reform is acceptable by you guys (which means our members) or whether it is too much. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 10:47, October 19, 2010 (UTC)
 * It's acceptable to me but not the abortion thingy because "abortion because sex before marriage results in satanic kids" is, with all due respect, a silly and ridiculous reason. Abortion is worse then pre-marital sex, though both are sinful and unwanted. Dr. Magnus 10:49, October 19, 2010 (UTC)
 * Okay, I'll await Semyon's respons. I'll change it then. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 10:51, October 19, 2010 (UTC)
 * My parents never married, you see. So if my mother would have listened to a priest telling her she would give birth to a reincarnation of Satan, neither me or any of my siblings would have excisted. Just that you know. Dr. Magnus 10:54, October 19, 2010 (UTC)
 * Personally, I think aborting the child is simply adding another sin to the first. It's also irresponsible; people are not forced to face up to the consequences of their actions, and so are likely to repeat them. (cf the 16-year old girl in my school who became pregnant three times, and aborted the first two.) --Semyon 11:00, October 19, 2010 (UTC)
 * Well, you are free to keep opposing abortion with this reform. So, do you agree with it? You can still remain very conservative, but now we can also attract less conservative people and more left-orientated people. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 11:02, October 19, 2010 (UTC)
 * I agree with keeping the 'impregnated against her will' part, but not the 'before marriage' part. It's a good idea to keep the 'Party members may have their own opinion' notes, however. --Semyon 11:15, October 19, 2010 (UTC)
 * Okay, I'll leave that part out :) --O u WTBsjrief-mich 11:21, October 19, 2010 (UTC)

On education
Our nation has freedom of speech, more or less. It lacks freedom of education, however. When parents choose to send their children to a school in which they can follow religious classes and learn about the beliefs of their ancestors, they should be able to do so. However they are not, not in Lovia. In Lovia, teaching children about, say, Christianity (or Islam, for the matter) is forbidden. It is not allowed. Because it is indoctrination. If a school opens with saying a prayer, if a school lets children recite psalms or sing religious songs, it is called "brainwashing" the pupils. This is, of course, ridiculous. But we are ruled by a paranoid, militant atheist majority. An atheist majority who claims tolerance and acceptance of "opposing views", but at the same time, opress our beliefs. We need to reform the educational system in Lovia. Schools should be able to teach their own programs, not be forced to teach the programs the government has written. Programs that ridicule religion. Programs in which there is no place for creationism. Dr. Magnus 17:34, November 6, 2010 (UTC)
 * Agreed, actually when they converted the Bisschoppelijke Colleges to Rijksscholen in the nineties about 20% of the students skipped the first class of the day to go to the church. As long as we don't have a fair and non-discriminative educational system (parents may choose to which school they send there children: atheist, muslim, christian, jewish, etc) this is something we might allow. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 18:15, November 6, 2010 (UTC)
 * Frankly, I am sick and tired of our people being discrimated against by the same government that is supposed to look out for all its citizens. I'm not alone in this. We should think of an educational program-reform, and make a proposal for this. Dr. Magnus 21:01, November 6, 2010 (UTC)
 * Or send them to private institutes which are financed by the incomings of the local mines. On this way you'd create a state within a state :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 07:02, November 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * @Pierius: you haven't read the law well. I am not going to summarize it for you, because I think you ought to read it for yourself. Your conclusions are based on nonsense. 08:13, November 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * @Dimitri:read this. they want to declare oceana independent Pierlot McCrooke 08:17, November 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yeah, ain't gonna do it again... --O u WTBsjrief-mich 08:22, November 7, 2010 (UTC)

Well, Dimitri, I'll cite from Article 6.3.5.1: ''In a course called 'Religions of the world', children may be taught about religions. If the school wishes to teach this subject, all major religions should be brought to attention, as well as a non-religious attitude.'' Actually, the law does say "brought to attention". If you ruim opvatten this then you could say: "Islam is a religion" and give all other lessons about Christianity. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 08:29, November 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * The law (enforced in this by means of the REAC) doesn't allow doctrinal classes. Religion can be studied in the classroom as an historical (crusades, Ottoman Empire, ...), sociological (link with elite, charity for the poor) and cultural phenomenon (biblical inspired art, holy books). Any classes that teaches religion in a non-neutral way can not be allowed on an officially subsidized school. If you feel the need to such lessons I suggest you start a (private) sunday school. 08:37, November 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * Could you cite me the text in the law? Anyway, sunday school is not a possibility. (zondag = rustdag) --O u WTBsjrief-mich 08:38, November 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * Federal Law Article 6 points 3.5.1 and 3.5.2 I think. Maybe there are some more specifications around but those are the ones you need. 08:51, November 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * The same as I cited above. Actually the law does not forbid Christian lessons as long is they are brought with an "It could be that..."-attitude. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 08:55, November 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * Replace the 'it could be attitude' with a 'religious people of this tendency say that', add how this religious tendency 'proves' this (by referring to some holy text or something) and then offer enough alternative world views, also with how they provide which evidence. Then I can agree, because you would have a neutral lesson in comparative world views. 09:02, November 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * Or burn up the school and send your children to the church. Unless you offer more Christian in percentage, f.e. 50% Christian (split up in Catholic, Protestant, Orthodox), 25% Atheist, 10% Moslim, 10% Buddhist etc. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 09:07, November 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * Separate education for different religions is again indoctrination, whether you say 'it could be that' in advance or not. Give it all and let the kids themselves determine which they deem acceptable. Sure, my local priest is afraid of that too; just imagine kids thinking for their own... 09:18, November 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * Long live Luther! 09:20, November 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * It's an edgy problem guys... Too bad we ain't part of the EU. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 09:40, November 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * I love the EU but it is far from perfect. In most countries religions are still funded by the state, which results in discrimination of less organized and historic religions. Also, sunday morning the state-funded Radio 1 broadcasts 'de mis'!! 09:47, November 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * What do you want: largest fraction in EU parliament are the conservative/christian-democrats. 09:48, November 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * Indeed, but I ain't a supporter of the EU, unlike you guys :P Rather funny, the EU is good for me and bad for you, while I hate it and you love it somehow :) --O u WTBsjrief-mich 09:49, November 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * I love the idea of the EU but not the EU itself. Bureaucracy is my main concern, I think; having lived abroad most of my life I am fairly unpatriotic, so I wouldn't mind further integration. --Semyon 18:25, November 20, 2010 (UTC)
 * I hate the EU probably even more than I hate the Netherlands, so I'm waiting on the day that the EU'll fall :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 13:47, November 21, 2010 (UTC)

Elections
It might be a good idea to start planning for these elections. --Semyon 18:27, November 20, 2010 (UTC)
 * OK, what would you like to plan then? :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 13:46, November 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * Well, who's gonna run for MOTC? Semyon, Pierius, OWTB? If we give us all our important votes, f.e. I give Semyon 3 and Pierius 2, Pierius gives me 3 and Semyon 2 and Semyon gives Pierius 3 and me 2 it's the best we can do. We can't reach much with only one/two guy(s) elected and having a PM. We can reach much more if everyone's elected. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 14:27, November 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I'm gonna run for MOTC! And yes, I think it is of vital importance we get as much of us elected as we can. Bucu will also soon be unblocked after which he, too, can cast his votes and make sure we get as many of our people elected as possible. All our members should run, and it wouldn't hurt to gain some outsider votes. :P Dr. Magnus 14:31, November 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * Indeed. Outsider votes might become tricky though :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 14:32, November 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * I may try to reach comrade Hengist Smid of the LCP? From the good ol' commie days! Dr. Magnus 14:39, November 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * Eh.. I'll leave that decision up to you :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 14:42, November 21, 2010 (UTC)

Latin
Latin is a member, then he is no longer a member, then he is, then he isn't? I dunno what to think of this, Ilava. Dr. Magnus 13:40, November 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * I'll send you a mail with an explanation. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 13:45, November 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * Received, comrade. Dr. Magnus 13:55, November 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * :) --O u WTBsjrief-mich 14:04, November 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * Could I have one too please? --Semyon 18:43, November 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * Could you send me an e-mail first? Then it's easier for me 'cause I can "send it through" then. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 18:48, November 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * OK. --Semyon 18:49, November 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * Got it? --Semyon 18:53, November 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yes, I've sent a reaction :) --O u WTBsjrief-mich 18:55, November 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks. :) --Semyon 19:12, November 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * Good :) --O u WTBsjrief-mich 19:13, November 27, 2010 (UTC)

Resignation
I have decided to leave. This is not because of any disagreement with the party's goals, which I still support. It's because I feel party politics has gone too far in Lovia. I know we may not be corrupt in the same way as some of Walden's politicians, but didn't we ourselves start working out who should vote for who in order to get elected?

Like I said, I still support the CCPL, and if I am elected to Congress I hope we can work together. --Semyon 17:15, November 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * OK. If you decide to leave we can't force you to stay of course. Good luck with the elections :) --O u WTBsjrief-mich 17:46, November 29, 2010 (UTC)

It's a shame you plan on leaving us. Are you sure this is really what you want, Semyon? You have always been a faithful member of the party and your dislike for party politics is probably the result of a change in the atmosphere in Lovia that has occured lately. Things will blow over and before you know it, everything will be as it was. Our nation has always had party politics and will always have them, we'd better adjust to this fact and keep our heads cool. Pierius Magnus 17:52, November 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * Welcome Semyon, to the group of independent candidate MOTCs who are in some specific way related to CCPL! You see, I don't see the problem here if CCPL would still recognize Semyon (and me, in fact) as good and stable partners, as we still have the same ideas! That's why I'd like to ask the CCPL to think of a electoral strategy and to eventually show that you Christians still feel responsible for the election of partners like Semyon and me! Make overtures! There's a bright future for us conservatives in Parliament!  Bucu 15:29, November 30, 2010 (UTC)

Word of good faith
To ensure the crisis of Walden doesn't contaminate other parties/the elections/Lovian democracy I would like to express a word of good faith in what I believe to be still an oppositional party. Though I dislike the views of the CCPL, I have always considered their MOTC to be among the best. Confident that we do not have to spiral towards a big clash, mud campaigns, etc. I'd like to stress the fact that our parties do share at least our confidence in fair, democratic elections and a good cooperation afterwards. Sincerely, 08:19, December 1, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yes, we want to get elected on a fair, democratic way in order to replace the democracy with a theocracy :) --O u WTBsjrief-mich 15:16, December 1, 2010 (UTC)
 * Great, maybe I have to counterbalance by devising some domination plans of my own. 16:18, December 1, 2010 (UTC)
 * OK, I guess.. :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 16:31, December 1, 2010 (UTC)
 * Wow, interestnig, so now the CCPL is just a fine opponent, instead of a political enemy (see ) Bucu 18:58, December 1, 2010 (UTC)
 * :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 05:47, December 2, 2010 (UTC)

Page Layout
Just to maybe have a better aesthetic layout, could we maybe put a template on this page? I mean, CPL.nm and Walden have this already in place, and I think that our article would be much more appealing with it. If nobody minds, I'd be up to it. Edward Hannis 05:51, December 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * Btw, I'm talking about a template talking about our members, foundation, close-to, far-from, that type of stuff. See the big sidebar templates on CPL.nm and Walden if you don't know what I mean. Edward Hannis [[File:CogHammer.gif]] 05:52, December 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * Great idea! Bucurestean 09:44, December 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * Well, the benefit of a template is not really large, so I ain't gonna put none of my time in it. If you want to spend some time and effort for it: go ahead! :) --O u WTBsjrief-mich 14:38, December 2, 2010 (UTC)

Join Party
I'am wants join this party. And my on the site. I'am join the party but not on the site. Iscool 19:23, December 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * And I am very glad to have you as a member of this site. We need as much members we can get. Now how about the Lovian Iscool Party? Pierius Magnus 19:26, December 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * Ok. You're in :) --O u WTBsjrief-mich 09:26, December 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * This Iscool fellow a friend of Pierlot. He's from FL, but fled to a "more active enviorment". Pierius Magnus 10:34, December 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * Great! Though, not to sound mean, I'm all for this guy, but can he speak English all that well? Do we know anyone that could help him, maybe? Just suggesting. Edward Hannis [[File:CogHammer.gif]] 16:40, December 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * We've had many users who didn't speak English that well in the past, so with a little help (if he's Dutch you can ask him to say something in Dutch and then one of us can translate it for you) it won't be a problem I believe. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 18:49, December 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * He is darn young though. That's not a big issue, but experience has taught us the youngest users often cause the most trouble to moderators - Pierlot, Justin, etc. You're all welcome though . Being here is a great way to improve your English language proficiency and social skills! 18:52, December 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yeah? Have my social skills been improved then? :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 18:56, December 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * You're "the uitzondering die de regel bevestigt" . Just joking :) 19:00, December 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * Hahaha, why do we pick the same moment to use egotrot? :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 19:08, December 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * Great minds think alike  19:15, December 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * Hahaha :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 19:18, December 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * @Dimi - not all young users made the moderator's heads ache ! Marcus Villanova Music is Life.Lean Forward.Walden
 * @Marcus - Watch out for that self-fulfilled irony. :) Edward Hannis [[File:CogHammer.gif]] 21:57, December 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * Ha..lolz Marcus Villanova Music is Life.Lean Forward.Walden 21:58, December 22, 2010 (UTC)

Pre-election talks
Dear chairman of the CCPL,

As Walden chairwoman, I am looking forward to interesting elections and another constructive Congress. We have all noticed how scattered and divided the political landscape can be and I expect it will be no different in January. That's why Walden would like to anticipate on these elections and on the formation of a coalition government. We have no guarantee whatsoever that we will be involved in the process, but being responsible politicians, it is our mere duty to consider the issue carefully.

What would your party's key points for 2011 be? In other words: which issues would your party like to tackle first and most once elected?

Then too, I would like to know how you think about collaborating with Walden. Would your party be able and willing to work together closely with the progressive-environmentalist party Walden and its members?

Thank you very much!

Chairwoman, Martha Van Ghent 18:12, December 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * Our key-points will be getting the local level of Lovia active again (working up from a small scale) and ensuring Christian morals and values.
 * Our party can work with every MOTC. On environmentalist issues we quite share some points and I think we can work closely together. Of course some points, like gay marriage, are more problematic. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 18:59, December 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * Well I think "working something out" is possible. I am, however, not a very big fan of forming coalitions, especially not before the actual elections. There is no way any of us can predict the future... one prediction I can make already; we'll have a different PM next year, or so it seems. Pierius Magnus 19:06, December 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * Thank you chairman. @Magnus: we're definitely not speculating about pre-election coalition. We are informing ourselves and the public about possible post-election coalitions and cooperation. Martha Van Ghent 19:10, December 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * Well then, nothing wrong with that! Did you already know, by the way, that Pierlot is now running for PM with permission of Yuri? I must admit; I never saw that one coming. Pierius Magnus 19:14, December 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * It certainly is a brave action to do so. I'd like to give him a fair chance in this campaign and would love to see more of his program. Btw: Yuri hasn't provided us with a written endorsement, so I actually doubt whether he's even aware of this move :/ Martha Van Ghent 19:20, December 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * I don't know exactly what was discussed between the two of them, but Pierlot seriously plans on becoming the new PM of Lovia and in the poster, it says Yuri supports him. However Yuri has not been online for, like, eight days. So it's all a bit vague, yet. Pierius Magnus 19:23, December 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * I had written Yuri's Strategy because CPL.nm is Yuri's party Pierlot McCrooke 19:24, December 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * You no longer want to revive IGP? I'm glad you got that outta your mind. ;) Pierius Magnus 19:35, December 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * No. BTW I didnt want to revive IGP but make a new anticabalist party, that isnt racist or undemocratic. However i changed my mind shortly thereafter, and decided to no longer support anticabalism agai Pierlot McCrooke 19:43, December 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * I can't tell you how glad I am you came to this conclusion all by yourself. Maybe maturity finally kicked in? I'm very happy you are no longer involved in these silly conspiracy theories. Pierius Magnus 19:47, December 23, 2010 (UTC)

Election Strategy
In my opinion it has been a great decision of Oos Wes Ilava to remain low-profile on the Prime Minister-thing. Of course, it will be a grandiose accomplishment of ours if our own leader becomes Prime Minister. It would be really impressive. And I think it should still remain our ambition to get Oos elected Prime Minister.

However, we should still have our priorities. Momentarily there are 16 candidates, while there are only 12 free seats. We, the CCPL, have 4 candidates. Simply said, if we want to have more influence in future Congress, we must get all of our 4 candidates elected in Congress. Which is hard. Because, as the King said, the Red Line is higher than ever. One thing is sure: 4 out of the total 16 candidates will not make it. We all must be amongst those 12.

I don't want to propose any coalition, nor do I want to start calculating like some other parties. Lovia wants us in Congress, or it doesn't - it's just like that. Therefore we must remain pragmatic and take in notice the "standings" every day.

I am confident though that we'll do a great job, no matter what the results will be! Cristian Latin 11:15, December 28, 2010 (UTC)


 * It's not a low profile when waldeners read it ! Marcus Villanova Music is Life.Lean Forward.Walden 15:55, December 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * I meant something else, namely that Oos didn't accept nor refuse the idea of trying to become PM. Of course, Waldeners may read it all. I actually wish everyone, every potential voter, to read our ideas, programs or strategies. We want to be transparent. We think it's the voter's right to be able to get to know everything about us :) Cristian Latin 15:58, December 28, 2010 (UTC)

Military
We are pacifists, but that does not mean that we should not have a military to defend ourselves. I know that Donia is in favor, but what would your stance be? Should the CCPL say that we should start an army? Cristian Latin 10:29, December 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * I am not in favor. Lovia has never been threated in history, we've never had a war and therefore I don't think we should have an army. It costs way too much for a small nation Lovia is. It will only lead to people becoming obsessed with it and eventually we'll get pages saying there are 150.000 soldiers in Lovia.. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 10:34, December 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * And if we are going to be threatened in the future, because of our strategical position near the US West Coast? Even a country like San Marino could own us now, if they'd send just 100 troops. And I think the Americans would be interested to help us providing some old free weapons, so the costs would be limited. The army could become an important employer (let's say 200 soldiers = 200 less unemlpoyed people). And no, I don't see any reason why we would get obsessed, creating pages saying there are 150.000 soldiers in a country with 25.000 inhabitants :P. Cristian Latin 10:38, December 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * Who would attack a nation so close to the US? We are like in US territorial waters...  10:41, December 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * I just don't think we need one. It's just too ambitious. Even countries like Iceland don't have a real military, so why should we have it? --O u WTBsjrief-mich 10:41, December 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * (aec 2x) Enemies. You never know when we'll have a WW III :P. Btw, doesn't this look frightening?  Cristian Latin 10:43, December 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * Lovia is protected by the United States thanks to the Monroe Doctrine, so we really don't need a military. And should a WWIII arrive, we're doomed anyhow. Edward Hannis [[File:CogHammer.gif]] 16:05, December 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * Bucu, I'm all in favour of having a military but we must keep it realistic. How about some sort of a small paramilitary organisation made out of volunteers? Or a small, armed police force? Nothing big, just a few hundred members of personnel, no aircrafts, no ships, just some guns and some people to carry them and use them to protect our nation, if needed. Pierius Magnus 16:16, December 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * Maybe like a changing of the gaurd sotra thing? Marcus Villanova Music is Life.Lean Forward.Walden 16:23, December 30, 2010 (UTC)

Haha, lol. Or I'll just start my own private Donia Clan army. Pierius Magnus 16:27, December 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * We could have an emergency militia. Or maybe institute the possibility of martial law. Edward Hannis [[File:CogHammer.gif]] 17:12, December 30, 2010 (UTC)

- Pierius Magnus 18:08, December 30, 2010 (UTC)

On the issue of Iceland- they have a Coast Guard, which has worked with the United States in Iraq. Alot of small micro-nations have long term deals with more advanced and well resoursed nations that could protect then in a time of need. War will always be a factor, and seeing as things getting heated up in North Korea- I wouldent tag our defenses to America. Having some type of National Guard would do just as fine as a Military, in time of a disater they would be present. As for the time being I will join up with the Federal Police.-Zackatron 20:57, December 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * You seem like an intelligent man, who knows what he is talking about. Zackatron, would you like to join the CCPL? You are exactly the sort of man we need to join forces with. Pierius Magnus 21:35, December 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * Come to think of it, you could be a good member of this nation, Zack. I'd recommend you embrace politics in this nation. Soon enough, it'll bring you very high importance in this nation. Edward Hannis [[File:CogHammer.gif]] 21:40, December 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * Indeed it would. And remember: with great power comes great responsibility. Pierius Magnus 21:42, December 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * You ought to tell that to those inactive members out there who haven't voted in the Second Chamber yet! That will slow the system down for sure: an uncompleted bill still in voting when Congress changes. Edward Hannis [[File:CogHammer.gif]] 21:46, December 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * May God have pity on us; we are ruled by those who do not care. Oh and yes, an emergency militia would be a good idea, Hannis. I could also be in favour of martial law, but again: only in times of hardship and trouble. Pierius Magnus 21:48, December 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * We'd need a 2/3 majority in Congress to get it through, type of thing. I'll look into doing that next year, with a fresh Congress, and hopefully a more active one. It's frustrating to have so many people do so little. Edward Hannis [[File:CogHammer.gif]] 21:50, December 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * Not if it's up to us. Maybe the Walden-CCPL coalition will change the way things are done in this nation. Because I know from very reliable sources this coalition is far from dead. Pierius Magnus 21:52, December 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * Villanova been talking under-the-radar again? Edward Hannis [[File:CogHammer.gif]] 21:54, December 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * Don't worry, Villanova has learned his lesson. Of course he is not stupid enough to make the same mistake again. Unlike McCrooke, Villanova is a smart guy who actually learns from his mistakes. And unlike most other liberal politicians, he is open-minded and not afraid of conservatism. It is silly to discuss coalitions before the elections have even begun, but we have absolutely zero reasons to worry about the outcome or aftermath. Pierius Magnus 22:00, December 30, 2010 (UTC)

@ Hannis' ideas: ''We could have an emergency militia. Or maybe institute the possibility of martial law'' Cristian Latin 22:14, December 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * I refuse to believe an army is needed. Consider Costa Rica: it has no army and is one of the most stable nations in the area. But I could agree on a partial 'militarization' of the federal police. After all we don't want to become a save haven for drug trafficking or the smuggling of guns. About the martial law thing: tempting but it might be easily exploited for not-so-fair goals. I'd rather not have it. 08:36, December 31, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yuri, an actual army is still a major step away from "an emergency militia". We should have the guns ready and the people trained to call upon in times of trouble. There will be no militarization of the FP: we will just equip our officers in the field better to allow them to cope with more dangerous situations. Why would we become "a save haven for drug trafficking" because of arming our police officers better? I think it would rather deter the criminals from coming here. Where would you rather smuggle (hard) drugs: in the Netherlands, were you'll only get a couple of months imprisonment or in Thailand, were you'll be hanged? Pierius Magnus 08:51, December 31, 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm afraid you misunderstood me: I want a heavily armed police branch to counter drug trafficking etc. That is what I mean with 'militarization' (bigger guns, more powers, etc.) 08:57, December 31, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I read over the word could. Glad you agree on that one. Pierius Magnus 09:04, December 31, 2010 (UTC)

I've been working on a military system that woulden't be too costly. I'm more into the fact that things happend when not expected. I was hoping to have a force for people who don't want to put they're entire life into police work. I have family that works for the National Guard in Kentucky, but all have full time jobs other than military or law inforcement, they help mostly when weather gets really bad or help direct traffic, but we truely need a military defence- Coasta Rica has very heavly armed 'police force' but they just lable it as a police force and not a military force.Friedrich Steiner 09:16, December 31, 2010 (UTC)
 * But the Costa Rican police can't do foreign operation nor is it liable for the country's defense. They only manage inland security which can make it a 'military police' or 'inland intelligence service' but not an 'army'. About the volunteer militia: if they are going to help when the weather gets bad they don't need riffles, do they? (I believe that one's called civil service) 09:23, December 31, 2010 (UTC)
 * I don't think we are planning to get into a foreign operation- we need to look to Lovia's past and hope that these things don't come back to bite us and leave a larger mark. The Free Republic of Hurbanova came out preacfully and diden't go into a full revolution. What if the Sofasi Riot been worse and the Federal Police been not able to control the raging Nazis, whos going to pull out the big guns and stop them?-Friedrich Steiner 09:39, December 31, 2010 (UTC)
 * That argument is on the margin of nonsensical. If people break the law we take it to court, if users step out of line the site administration steps in. Believe me, so called wannabe criminals are no less than vandals and are to be dealt with accordingly, no matter how strong they claim to be as opposed to our police force. 09:49, December 31, 2010 (UTC)
 * I was thinking this as being more real-worldish..not the fact you can just ban people, I though this was more of a RP thing. I was taking this as being in the real world nation..realations and what not, I'm thinking we are on two diffrent tracks.-Friedrich Steiner 09:59, December 31, 2010 (UTC)
 * Must agree with Zack. We still act like we would be a real nation, right? Cristian Latin 10:11, December 31, 2010 (UTC)
 * We try to be, but there are obvious obstacles, like how to calculate value without money? We rely on reasonable consent for such issues, as is the some with 'criminality'. Even if Lovia said it had the biggest and best equipped army in the world, a user could simply claim that 'he managed to stay undercover just long enough'. 10:13, December 31, 2010 (UTC)
 * No, I was more thinking of a force comparable to the police as in 2008 (an admin who is in charge). In special cases, like large-scaled revolts, you could make use of the military police, also led by an admin. This branch could also be used for international issues concerning Lovia, e.g. for when we're being attacked. Cristian Latin 10:17, December 31, 2010 (UTC)
 * I mean, what do our Feds mean with their .45 Colt if they encounter people with AK47s Cristian Latin 10:19, December 31, 2010 (UTC)
 * I would support such a proposal, but a standing army is too silly for words. Since criminality and site-vandalism are linked, a MP under the site administration is a sound solution. 10:31, December 31, 2010 (UTC)
 * Alright, I think it's a fine compromise. Cristian Latin 10:32, December 31, 2010 (UTC)
 * Anyone in support of an arms prohibition for civilians? 10:33, December 31, 2010 (UTC)
 * Having a army for the website sounds silly, but a national defence force for Lovia dosent..-Friedrich Steiner 10:39, December 31, 2010 (UTC)
 * @Dimi: also pro! US citizens might not like to hear this but what gives the state its power is its monopoly on violence. 10:40, December 31, 2010 (UTC)
 * Dimitri: yes, I would be. However hunters should be able to purchase a gun. Of course this will require a license. Foresters and park rangers should still be allowed to carry arms in order to keep the population of wild life in balance. Nobody without a license should be able to purchase a gun, though. Pierius Magnus 10:41, December 31, 2010 (UTC)
 * Agree. But I think we all Europeans would agree on that :P Cristian Latin 10:42, December 31, 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm fairly happy with a gun in my desk on the left shelf, if you live in Gary Indiana, you would understand..Friedrich Steiner 10:44, December 31, 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm fairly happy with a gun in my desk on the left shelf, if you live in Gary Indiana, you would understand..Friedrich Steiner 10:44, December 31, 2010 (UTC)

Proposal for 2 new points
@OWTB, also see my mails 'bout them women and gays é :P --Cristian Latin 10:48, December 31, 2010 (UTC)
 * 1) The CCPL is in favor of the creation of a national defence force, an organization that has the ability to make use of heavy weapons in cases of major threats that affect Lovia's national security.
 * 2) Furthermore, the CCPL has the wish to establish an arms prohibition for civilians, with exception of licensed hunters.


 * Pierius Magnus 10:49, December 31, 2010 (UTC)
 * --O u WTBsjrief-mich 10:52, December 31, 2010 (UTC)

What about the elections part? I see we are in favor of even more elections. What about shortening the voting period of the State Elections to, let's say 1 week? Cristian Latin 11:01, December 31, 2010 (UTC)
 * Okay :) --O u WTBsjrief-mich 11:04, December 31, 2010 (UTC)

Applying
Would you guys be interested in a fictional member? Valery Adrian would like buy a membership card, she's a moderate conservative protestant. 10:32, December 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * Her husband is a nazi :)) Well, I don't think it should be a problem as long as she isn't. Cristian Latin 10:34, December 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * She's welcome. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 10:34, December 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * Her husband is a populist and a nationalist, but he doesn't have a problem with 'people from non-Lovian origin' as long as they do some effort to adopt our Lovian ways. I'll put her on.  10:36, December 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * I don't care what het husband is :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 10:40, December 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * Does she have to be on the bottom of the list because she's a woman? The other guy doesn't even have a page of his own yet.  10:42, December 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * No, because it's on alphabet :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 10:43, December 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * Omg. Cristian Latin 10:44, December 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * OMG what? You don't like her? 10:44, December 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * Nooo . I had to laugh about the "because she's a woman"-part Cristian Latin 10:46, December 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * It was a joke but you never know... 10:53, December 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 10:54, December 30, 2010 (UTC)

Gay Marriage
(copied from User talk:Bucurestean)

As to separate between church and state, and yet maintain both, I think there is a solution to the concern of gay marriage. Arguably, marriage is religious matter, and if such a religion is against homosexuality, then it is their full right to deny them marriage. Nonetheless, there are subsequent legal meanings to marriage (inheritance, medical decisions, etc.), hence causing discrimination from the government. So, this being said, it is unconstitutional to have the government recognize any value to marriage. So, I propose that the CCPL support two forms of what we call "marriage": The advantage to this system is that confirms separation of church and state, and also maintains the rights of religion, as well as the authority of state. In other words, religion can refuse to marriage to whomever they please, and the government can assure a legal equivalent to anyone they chose to allow it for (the only restriction being age, as far as I can think of). Edward Hannis  16:35, December 31, 2010 (UTC)
 * Religious Marriage - This is organized by the church/mosque/synagogue of their choice, but has absolutely no legal value.
 * Legal Bonding - This is organized by the government, and does have legal value.
 * Agreed. Age not being the only restriction though - those closely related by blood may not marry either. Pierius Magnus 17:23, December 31, 2010 (UTC)
 * I guess so. Though, where would our official limit be, then? Edward Hannis  [[File:CogHammer.gif]] 17:34, December 31, 2010 (UTC)
 * Well, nieces and nephews marrying is okay, I guess, as it happens a lot in certain areas, but should not be incouraged as it weakens the offspring. However siblings (or half-siblings), parents and children, grandparents and grandchildren, uncles\aunts and nieces - those relationships are off-limits, un-ethical and produce retarded offspring. Incest should be made illegal by law, as it is perverted and morally wrong. It is much worse then homosexuality. Pierius Magnus 17:37, December 31, 2010 (UTC)
 * I'll give you that is poses severe secondary effects. So, we'll say that anyone with a common parent/sibling/child or are parent/sibling/child to one another, cannot be "legally bonded." Is that good? In other words, if any two people have a parent, sibling, or child that are the same people (Joe's brother is Sam, Suzie's father is Sam), then they cannot marry. In this case, all of the things you described are prevented. However, taken that the shortest line between two nieces is Niece A to Niece A's Parent to Niece B's Parent to Niece B, it is too far to be prevented. Edward Hannis  [[File:CogHammer.gif]] 17:45, December 31, 2010 (UTC)
 * Agreed. Once again, great minds think alike! Pierius Magnus 17:49, December 31, 2010 (UTC)
 * So do dumb ones...  Edward Hannis  [[File:CogHammer.gif]] 17:57, December 31, 2010 (UTC)
 * Dumb people do not excist, only misinterpreted geniuses. Pierius Magnus 17:58, December 31, 2010 (UTC)
 * "There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." Anyhow, if Bucu and Oos agree to this, we could have this being put through Congress next year. Edward Hannis  [[File:CogHammer.gif]] 18:02, December 31, 2010 (UTC)

Doubt it, if you don't have a good coaltition you can't get anything passed...there is always walden to coalition with! And a happy new year! Marcus Villanova Music is Life.Lean Forward.Walden 18:10, December 31, 2010 (UTC)
 * Maybe if you opened your mind a crack and considered that other parties may like the idea, especially if it's coming from the one party that would have likely refused it, you'd realize that it's very likely to get through. Not only that, but keep in mind you needn't be MOTC to contribute to the First Chamber. Edward Hannis  [[File:CogHammer.gif]] 18:20, December 31, 2010 (UTC)
 * In the end, Marcus, we're all on the same team. Keep that in mind. If you hadn't ever thought about the ultimate goal of (secular) life, then you should start. I have my personal opinion as to what it is, as does anyone else in this world. Edward Hannis  [[File:CogHammer.gif]] 18:22, December 31, 2010 (UTC)

To get back on the legal bonding: I do not agree. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 09:35, January 1, 2011 (UTC)
 * @Hannis: as said on the talk page this discussion was originally on, there is already a proposal being voted about this. Is your goal to make it pass and then alter it or to come with an entirely new proposal? 09:52, January 1, 2011 (UTC)
 * That's quite some text you got there :P I don't want to harm myself, so first I'll wait till the hangover has passed :)) Cristian Latin 09:58, January 1, 2011 (UTC)
 * I just wanted to say this because (1) MOTC should already know this and (2)it would be silly to do double work. 10:02, January 1, 2011 (UTC)
 * Ah me is sorry, hadn't read your comment either :P Cristian Latin 10:04, January 1, 2011 (UTC)

voting
I will be voting for you guys --Owen1983 19:58, January 10, 2011 (UTC)
 * A great decision of yours, Owen! You won't be disappointed! Do you have any further ambitions here in Lovia? We could use someone like you in this country! Cristian Latin 20:02, January 10, 2011 (UTC)

@Bucu: You bet! @Owen: glad to have you here! Pierius Magnus 20:54, January 10, 2011 (UTC)

Plan?
I currently have 18 votes. That means I just took the lead today from Medvedev (14 votes). What will now be our parties voting strategy? Pierius Magnus 19:53, January 14, 2011 (UTC)


 * we win!! call me Batzloff 19:58, January 14, 2011 (UTC)