Forum:Election Debate

This page will be the location for the first debate of the 2015 federal election. The following parties will be represented:
 * Conservative Christian Party of Lovia, by Oos Wes Ilava
 * Conservative Nationalist Party, by Lukas Hoffmann
 * Social Liberal Party, by William Krosby
 * Green Party, by Nicholas Sheraldin
 * Republican Initiative, by Aina Sarria
 * United Left, by Justin Abrahams

Rules: The forum will be open for 48 hours, from 00:00 (UTC) on Saturday 28th of March to 24:00 Sunday 29th of March. The debate will be divided into the following sections:
 * Opening statement. You can add this to the forum prior to the opening of the debate. Statements should be around 100 to 150 words.
 * Main debate. This will consist of 6 questions asked by audience members, covering the range of topics listed in the Pub. Each leader will answer one question, but there will be extended discussion so all leaders have a chance to offer their views on the topic, and to challenge the other views presented. Because of the constraints of the forum, we'll discuss the 6 topics concurrently in separate sections of the forum. You can discuss as you wish; the moderator (me) will probably intervene to direct the discussion towards certain areas.
 * Closing statement. Add this towards the end of the weekend, if you think you won't be able to edit again before the debate ends. If you don't manage to add it by Sunday, it'll be fine. Again, around 100 to 150 words.

Important points:
 * If two of you are online simultaneously (I'm thinking specifically of Kunarian and Horton here) limit your exchanges to a couple of replies each, and continue the argument on the talk page if you want to.
 * As I said, each topic will begin with a question directed specifically to one of the debaters. Please answer this as soon as possible so others can comment on that topic too. If you don't succeed in answering by the end of Saturday or so, I shall have to open the discussion to the other participants.
 * Rather than signing edits, please start your comment with the character's surname, in bold, followed by a colon (e.g. Ilava: I like barbecues.)
 * If there's an edit conflict, try not to delete anyone else's edit, but add 'edit conflict' to the summary, so I can check you didn't.
 * I'm aware of time zone differences and other commitments (like 77topaz's field trip), but there's a lot of time available and as long as everyone provides at least one comment on most of the topics, it should work out ok. There's no need to invest a vast amount of time.
 * I have created the forum now so everyone can have a think about the format, prepare a statement and policies, or tell me how stupid it is; in the last case, there's time to make some changes prior to the start.

Opening statements
Moderator: Welcome to the first of the 2015 election debates. The leaders of Lovia's most important political parties are here today to explain why they deserve your vote. We'll start by hearing an opening statement from each of the leaders.

Ilava: Under CCPL's Government, Lovia has seen one of its most active periods. CCPL increased State Autonomy, and with that, it made politics closer to farmer Willy and office employee Margareth. We safeguarded culture, education, and family. In the coming Congress, we plan to renew this course, and we will focus on boosting Lovia's economy, which was hard-hit after the Burenian invasian, again. We will also focus on health, and, of course, Christian morals and values. CCPL has clear plans on investing in a clean environment. We will create laws that oblige States to set up waste disposal services, as well as other services, such as water, gas, and electricity. CCPL will also create strict laws against prostitution, which is degrading to women, and euthanasia, and stricter laws against abortion, which is murdering of children. CCPL will also focus on the rural parts of Lovia. We will ensure that facilities, such as education, communal services, and public transport, are available in even the smallest hamlets. In short, a vote on CCPL is a vote on Lovia!

Krosby: The Social Liberal Party has a variety of policies that we will push for in the coming Congress. First, we will seek to roll back devolution and return power to the federal government if elected this year. It is clear that decentralization is a failure and we will work to reverse it. However, we agree that the states have made some good policies, and we will work to elevate those systems, such as universal healthcare, to the federal level. Secondly, we seek to work with all parties, across the political spectrum. Lovia needs strong leadership and we will avoid partisan politics and work to make Lovia work again. Furthermore, we want to provide universal services to all Lovians, including education, both lower and higher, health, energy, water, transportation, and many others, present both in urban and rural areas. Every Lovian deserves these services, and they should not be privatized. Lastly, we believe in civil liberties. No religion or person's morals, other than those of the entire human race, will be pushed on anyone else. Vote SLP for progress these elections!

Abrahams: United Left has always worked to improve Lovia for all Lovians and will continue to do so. UL governors have been elected to Clymene and Kings and have worked to improve the quality of life in those states, and has proven itself to be capable of leading. United Left is committed to bringing further autonomy to Lovia's distinct areas, improving housing and infrastucture for areas adversely affected in the past year and work on further improving access to and quality of other services in Lovia, such as transportation. Furthermore, United Left will work with other parties to further help improve Lovia. Now is the time to take a step forward, so why not take it with the party that will work to do so.

Hoffmann: Under the Ilava governments things went smoothly, we legislated and created many reforms and we managed to command the greatest growth for years in the economy. We need to return to this, the key element that drove these governments was inclusivity and a clear set of ideas that each party pushed for. We want to bring this back. That is why the CNP will only support a government that will form a grand coalition or a majority coalition with shadow ministers. That is why the CNP has a clear set of priorities. We want to reform the constitution through the Congress and streamline government on a state and federal level. We want to ensure that the reforms in health and education are properly rolled out across the entire nation. And as a party I can promise that no matter what we shall not let the Lovian people down nor put them second place to special interests.

Sarria: Republican Initiative is the newest party of Lovia, but it also has the newest ideas. Supporting youths and people with disabilites. Republican Initiative wants to make a standard system in all of Lovia for education, health, social services to have less bureaucracy, and more easiness for all of the Lovians. RI will also work to keep some lower taxes for businesses, especially the smaller ones, to help them to grow and be competitive. Republican Initiative will be helping all the Lovians: wealthy, poor, elderly, in the country and recently in Lovia, because all of these people together form a society that needs to be improved. Republican Initiative is more than only Republican ideas, it's about ideas for all of Lovia.

Question 1
Moderator: Our first question is from Mary Watson, from Sylvania.

Mary Watson is a middle-aged woman, speaking in an urban Lovian English accent.

Watson: Hello, I run a small hotel in Charleston. After the recent conflicts, there are barely any tourists and I'm struggling to make ends meet. How are you going to rebuild Lovia so small businesses can flourish again?

Moderator: Ms. Sarria, could you begin, please?

Question 2
Moderator: Right, it's time for our second question. Owen Young, a student in Noble City. I'd like Mr. Abrahams to answer this one first.

''Owen Young is in his twenties. He speaks passionately and with a slight stammer, with an urban accent.''

Young: I'm fed up with 'grand coalitions.' The elections just shuffle government ministers round a bit; I've never seen a politician lose their job. Do you agree this needs to change?

Abrahams: Apart from the past year, our grand coalition governments have worked well enough. It is largely the same ministers, but these are generally the most active and most competent ones for our country, either if they are CCPL, Green Party of from others. Having a majority coalition government could be interesting to see, but there is the good chance that by excluding certain parties, it could exclude the viewpoints, opinions of many people, and even such a government could not guarantee it being different or even fully active miniters.

Moderator: You disagree with Mr. Young, then; does anyone else think he has a point?

Question 3
Moderator: We now have a question from Thomas Yech, a retired farmer who lives in Slowane.'''

''Thomas Yech is in his eighties. He asks his question sitting down.''

Yech: Dovidenia. Buet Lovia have un nove konstitutsia after that eleksia, an what mean thatte shpetshnine for Oshenna?

Moderator: For the leaders and viewers that don't speak Oceana, Mr. Yech is asking whether a new constitution will be drawn up after the election, and the consequences for his state in particular. What's your response, Mr. Krosby? We didn't hire a translator for this evening, so I'm afraid you'll have to answer in English (laughs).

Krosby: I don't think a new Constitution will be created. The Convention is over and it's clear that following the current Constitution is the best course of action. However, I would expect amendments to be written and enacted this year - of what type, I'm not sure. If amendments proposing devolution are suggested, I will oppose them, as I have made clear in the past: Devolution does not work and only leads to further inactivity in our government and civil service. Centralization is the only real option for a nation of less than 300,000 people.

In terms of Oceana, and all over the nation, I want things to return to normalcy. I absolutely seek to maintain the Oceana language and culture as an important part of our national heritage, but I don't think autonomy is necessary for this. Currently, with state laws, I believe the states, including Oceana, have plenty of power to govern, help, and manage their affairs and residents. Any further managing can be done at the federal level, in which Oceanans will have a strong voice in parties like OSB.

Moderator: What do the other leaders think about the future of the Constitution? Is Mr. Krosby correct to advocate centralisation? And should we take a different approach to Oceana than to other states?

Ilava: I would love to reply in our mutual language, but I'll stick to English, so the other people can listen too. We have a lot of fresh ideas for fixing up the constitution following our convention earlier this year. So, I'd say: "Yes, there will be a new constitution." I believe mister Krosby's ideas are a danger to Lovia. In Lovia, we have many groups of people who desire more autonomy. In some regions, they form a majority. We cannot simply ignore this. Ignoring this caused the Hurbanova Crisis back in 2008. I do agree, however, that not all regions are strong enough for devolution, and devolution does not mean that different regions can no longer cooperate. Cooperation is a necessity.

Then to get to the Oshenna issue. Oshenna is Lovia's most powerful state and it is my personal opinion that we should remain Lovian. However, as a significant part of our voters favor an independent republic, we do not have an official view on this. However, CCPL will guarantee that Oshenna will keep its autonomy and its own laws. We will also work to get State Court and State Police back. Oshenna culture has never been threatened and it never will be. The Oshenna people have proven to be very protective of That Lew and CCPL supports them.

To sum up, CCPL believes in a new, modern constitution and more devolution. For Oshenna this means more chances and more autonomy. A vote on CCPL is a vote on Lovia!

Question 4
Moderator: Our fourth question, from Elizabeth Smirnoff, who's between jobs at the moment, from Seven. Can you start us off, Mr. Hoffmann?

Elizabeth Smirnoff is about 55 years old and speaks in a Northern Lovian accent.

Smirnoff: I live in Novosevensk and after the terrible things that happened in the Civil War I still don't feel safe going out at night. How will you make the government and police strong, so we don't have to fear Shaynovna and the other militias?

Hoffmann: It seriously concerns me that you still don't feel safe, and I can assure you that concerning internal threats we are more secure than we have ever been. The Lovian Federal Police is now well-manned, well-equipped and well-led. I mean they can go toe to toe with the military of other nations and win and did so in the invasion. I'd like to see Shaynovna try and fight even one squad of the FP let alone the entire Sevener district.

However maybe your problem is more with the fact that these groups still exist and lurk in the shadows waiting to be used by some undesirable group? (Smirnov nods) yes? We in the CNP have been working to smash militias however it is difficult, current laws do not really allow us to do that and our judicial system is largely ineffectual.

But I can assure you that crushing this enemy within our nation is a key policy to ensure stability in the future. This is our plan. Legislate to create clear legal definitions between hunters, security companies and militias and make sure that those definitions stick. Legislate to create proper controls on the manufacture, sale and ownership of firearms. Legislate to create a set of State Courts that would deal with the day to day cases that our Supreme Court cannot. Then begin a swift and thorough purge of our nation to eliminate the known and unknown militia.

We in the CNP were the first to introduce an investigative branch to the FP and if anyone can root out the militia lurking in our nation they can. With all of these actions taken sequentially and with support from other parties that put the interests of this nation first we can hopefully make you feel safe on the streets of Novosevensk again. But please don't hesitate to contact a local CNP member or your Governor so that we can understand what people feel needs to be done to improve their life in this nation.

Moderator: Thank you, Mr. Hoffmann. What do the rest of you think about this issue? How can we ensure political stability in Lovia, especially when it seems our own politicians try to undermine it?

Ilava: I strongly agree with my colleague. In Lovia, most militias are acting locally and not nationally. That is why it is important to act locally. A strong state with a State Court and State Police will effectively halt these militias. Compare it to the situation prior to the first state reform. Lovia hardly had any militias. After the abolition of State Courts and State Police, these militias grew like mushrooms. Therefore it is important to give states more authority on this issue.

Another thing we easily look over is the reason why these anti-democratic groups exist: they feel our beautiful Lovian democracy has failed. CCPL has proven to be the most stable factor in our Congress for several years in a row: a strong CCPL means strong Lovian politics; strong Lovian politics means less anti-democratic sentiments. A vote on CCPL is a vote on Lovia!

Question 5
Moderator: We need to move on to our next question, from Isaac Zhang, a web designer from Sofasi.

''Isaac Zhang is in his thirties, one of the few non-white members of the audience. He speaks with an accent that sounds Californian.''

Zhang: Hi. We still don't have full equality in this country. Today, only one out of the six of you is a woman. What will you do to assure women, the disabled, and the LGBT community they are valued and will be treated fairly?

Moderator: I think it'd be interesting to hear Mr. Ilava's perspective, first of all.

Ilava: It is very important that people have respect for each other and each other's opinions. That is one of the key factors of our democracy: openness. That is why CCPL is an open party, with a party declaration everyone can read. However, it is important to put things in perspective. Grouping women, the disabled, and the LGBT community in a single group would ignore the diversity between and within these groups. Therefore, I shall address each group separately.

Let's start with women. Lovian women are a key factor in our society. CCPL understands that a large portion of Lovians want women to actively participate in business life and politics. That is the reason why we chose to cooperate instead of shun. A working woman is as valuable as a working man, and should therefore get an equally high salary and equally high chances on the job market. Therefore, we oppose quota on the percentage of women in executive functions. However, women have a natural task to serve their family, and should be able to do so. A child growing without a mother looking after it, is a child not growing up. CCPL ensures that women do not have to find jobs by providing a good child allowance, so they can look after their families. After all, the future society of Lovia is born and raised up right now.

Now I'll address the issue of the disabled. CCPL is a party that looks after the vulnerable and less-fortunate of our society; it is part of our social principle. We understand that it is often hard to find a job if you're less-abled. That is why CCPL will pay for good services within companies willing to accept these people who are good at so many other things, such as elevators and other aids. It is important to note though, that some people, no matter how willing they are, will not be able to find a job or even work at all. For this group of people, CCPL will make a good deal: a social security on conditions. If they are still able to do some form of voluntary work, they will be asked to do so and in return they will get social benefits. In this way, it is a benefit for both the disabled and Lovian society as a whole.

And last, the LGBT community. We have often been accused of discriminating this vulnerable and diverse group of our society. This is not the case, however. CCPL understands that people with other feelings are often more afraid, and they have a difficult choice to make, early in their lives. For protecting these people, we want to raise the age of gay consent to 21 and place a stricter control on all forms of sexual consent. We will, however, not criminalize the homosexual deed itself, as we understand that that will do more damage than it will do good. Homosexuals should always be given a chance to explore other-sex relationships, and that is why CCPL will make government funded help groups in which they can talk and learn more about themselves, in order to maybe find out that there is another way. Then to get on the issue of transgenderism: we understand that people may have such feelings, but instead of them having their bodies ruined, they should be helped. CCPL will criminalize the sex-change operation and the administering of hormones, both for the doctor executing this and the person requesting it, so no more people will get hurt.

As you can see, CCPL stands for a society in which the vulnerable will be helped and protected. A vote on CCPL is a vote on Lovia!

Moderator: Many thanks for your detailed explanation, Mr. Ilava. I'd like to hear the views of the rest of you, too.

Krosby: As a homosexual, CCPL's policy on the LGBT community offends me. If their policy went into action, it would absolutely discriminate against us. The age of sexual consent should be equal and liberal for all. However, creating "help groups" is an interesting idea, though it should be generalized to providing free government mental health care, including both individual and group therapy. In terms of transgenderism, it should be an option to transition to a different sex, although sticking with purely mental health treatments should obviously also be an option - it should be the choice of the individual. The government has no place in dictating what is moral and what is not, aside from the morals of the entire Human race.

In terms of women, we promote full equality, but we do not support quotas as they violate this equality. We will try to pass a law that prohibits and penalizes discrimination, and there should be no more incentives to stay at home for a woman than a man. We believe that the current division between men and women is mostly psychological, so besides what we have already mentioned, in education, we will try to create programs that encourage equal participation in career pathways for boys and girls, and eliminate subconscious discrimination. We completely agree with Ilava on the policies for the disabled.

Ilava: I am pretty sure by your age you have perfectly found out that you are a homosexual, but for many young people it is a very difficult situation. These people should be protected and given a slight push in the easiest direction, so they don't miss out on the beautiful things of life, such as having a family, and so they will not get intimidated by other people. The same counts for transgenderism, which should be banned as it is irreversible.

"Morals of the entire Human race" sounds absurd. How do you determine what morals are universal and what morals are not? You are doing exactly that, what you say to oppose: namely, pushing your own morals - about morals - on other people.

Then to get at women's rights. Just to give a simple example: breast-feeding. Breast-feeding is good for the child, but how can a mother feed a child on the only natural way if she has to work? There happen to be biological differences between men and women, and they ought to be taken in account. That is why God determined the vocation of women. Who are we to not listen to that?

Krosby: By "Morals of the entire Human race", I mean that things like that murder, rape, theft, etc. should be illegal. I'm sorry that I can't think of a better way to put it. I disagree about what you think is the "easiest direction". Homosexuals can still have a family, and "not getting intimidated" is not a reason. Hiding your sexuality or gender identity is more intimidating as being open about it. I did it myself for years. On women's rights, I agree about your point, and so the SLP supports fully paid maternity leave, as well as paternity leave, to account for things like that.

Ilava: So, basically, you want to give people all the freedom they can have, as long as they do not murder, rape, steal, etc. To me, that sounds like a very chaotic society, and not the kind of society I want to live in. Take a look at suicide rates, overly free countries have higher suicide rates than countries with a healthy society. Freedom is good, but it should be limited.

I never mentioned "hiding". CCPL is pro-openness. I sincerely hope people come out with their feelings, so they can get the help they need. And to get on maternity and paternity leaves, those are very good ideas, and CCPL surely supports them. However, if a mother wishes to stay at home in order to take care of her family, she should be able to do so. As I pointed out in my earlier statement: It is very important that people have respect for each other and each other's opinions. If a woman wishes to work instead, she should also be allowed to do so.

''Some booing, and a few cheers from the audience. The King, also in attendence, clapped his hands and exclaimed enthusiastically: "Hear, hear!" after speaker Ilava delivered his statement.

Moderator: Alright, I'd rather focus on practicalities than philosophical issues such as universal morals and the nature of freedom. I'd also like to hear from some of the other party leaders.

Question 6
Moderator: It's time for our final question, I'm afraid. It's from Philippa de Vere, a doctor from Newhaven, and it's the turn of Mr. Sheraldin to answer.

''Philippa de Vere is in her forties and smartly dressed compared to most of the audience. She speaks Lovian English extremely well, but with a trace of a foreign accent.''

De Vere: How will you allocate money to public services?