Forum:The Pub

__NEWSECTIONLINK__

nl:Forum:De kroegli:Forum:De Kaffeero:RoWikicity:Cafeneasv:Forum:Krogen Welcome to The Pub! This is the general meeting place in Lovia. Inhabitants can make public announcements, have a friendly chat with some copatriots, or discuss crucial issues in Lovian politics or business. Speeches can also be made at Speakers' Corner. All archives of The Pub can be found here.

Healthcare System!
It's the time to get working on a bill for healthcare! But, unfortunately, I have a predicament here. I don't know how much I should cover percentage wise for the different tax brackets. As said before, it will only cover necessities. If anyone has suggestions for percentage of care that will be paid for by the government health care please comment below. --Quarantine Zone (talk) 16:37, February 28, 2013 (UTC)

HELP!!!!!
HELP ME FELLOW USERS!!!!!! Im using google crome and recently i can't use wikination on that site meanwhile everyother site does work. I can only use internet explorer which is a bumer and edit the site....HELP has this happened to anyone? Marcus/Michael Villanova 00:35, March 2, 2013 (UTC)

Nope, it must be your computer. I am using Chrome and everythin is perfectly fine.  Happy65   Talk CNP   08:08, March 2, 2013 (UTC)

Same with me. 4kant,6FRÅGOR??? 08:25, March 2, 2013 (UTC)

YAY! The people at wikia told me to delete my "cache" idk whut that even is, but i did it and now everything works. Apparently there was a wikia wide problem were the new version of javascrpit messed some stuff up. Marcus/Michael Villanova 00:07, March 3, 2013 (UTC)

Labour Election!!!
WHile I can still even use the wiki I'm putting up this poll of the Deputy Labour leadership election. I want everyone to vote and support candidates, the outcome will greatly effect or decide the actual outcome of the election. Support candidates on there background, positions and personality! VOTE!!!

Which labour candidate do you support? Lenka - NPO leader and supporter of strong unions while being center/center-left Robinson - Related to founding Stephen Robinson, socialist and seen as a new look Inouye - Mainstream progressive views and believes in trade union strength

So please vote :D! Thanks Marcus/Michael Villanova 00:41, March 2, 2013 (UTC)

I chose Inyoue, because it's like my views but in Brunant, i'm with SLP (socialist). Hey, you shold join and be in the elections.MMunson-talk ( Vote SLP ) 03:35, March 8, 2013 (UTC)

Marcus is sometimes active in Brunant; he leads the Social Anarchy Party there. 77topaz (talk) 04:10, March 8, 2013 (UTC)

He's anarchist! It's very exterme, and I'm not so much.MMunson-talk ( Vote SLP ) 04:41, March 8, 2013 (UTC)

It's mainly a joke party Munson, and just like any other political ideology there are sub sets and sub sets within those. IRL i'm not an anarchist, it makes no sense tbh but over there Socialist Anarchy would be somewhere around "guild socialism" which would perfer to see local unions and smaller governments to control and regulate workers lives. Again not my actual views but since we're role playing. Marcus/Michael Villanova 11:06, March 8, 2013 (UTC)

Well you should run for congress then. I'd doubt you'd get the majority to make all those changes but you could become the voice of small government. HORTON11 : •  17:52, March 8, 2013 (UTC)

Hugo Chávez
Now Hugo Chávez died on the 5th of March in 2013, Lovia needs to send someone to his funeral or something else. Wabba The I (talk) 15:20, March 6, 2013 (UTC)
 * Foreign Affairs maybe? --O u WTBsjrief-mich 17:45, March 6, 2013 (UTC)
 * Nope. That guy was an enemy to democracy and we can't celebrate him. Hopefully there will be a better future for Venezuelans. HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 18:33, March 6, 2013 (UTC)
 * Not too familiar with Chavez but in what way was he an enemy of democracy? Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 19:28, March 6, 2013 (UTC)
 * Well to start the press isn't free and he made several constitutional changes to change his term length and abolish re-election limits. He'd be what one could call a "democratic dictatorship". HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 21:31, March 6, 2013 (UTC)
 * which in my opinion isn't technically an infrigment on democracy while you can debate, and i won't stand in the way, of he changes to other policies mainly because I don't know. I do know though he was a last remaining few Socialists. True red blooded socialists. He created a hybrid socialist ideology called "Socialist of the 21st century" which recognizes the private market and its role while being mostly progressive and have strong public influence and works. (regulation, jobs ect.) Kinda like our Labour :D Marcus/Michael Villanova 21:38, March 6, 2013 (UTC)

He did abolish term limits, which was bad, but the elections were all fair, so I don't think it was that bad. He also pulled a lot of people out of poverty and increases literacy, etc. His work with the national oil company didn't help that much, but it didn't bring ruin to the company or the nation at all. I have a mixed view on him. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 23:14, March 6, 2013 (UTC)
 * He wasn't on a par with Gaddhafi or Saddam Hussein, but he was still pretty bad. His elections may have been 'fair', in the sense that he didn't stuff ballot boxes or station men with guns outside ballot stations to tell people how to vote, but there are more subtle ways to do these things. His economic success was due to an overreliance on oil, and he couldn't control inflation. --Semyon 08:05, March 7, 2013 (UTC)


 * Does not matter. We can also just send a message with condolence. Wabba The I (talk) 16:44, March 7, 2013 (UTC)


 * Respect him as another man and human being just as we are, but to send a minister for a funeral would be a bit extreme in my opinion. He supported some terrorist organizations and had a burning hatred for America. He was also quite socialist, a farther left and progressive socialist; he wasn't quite a communist. I say, don't send a minister, and don't celebrate his death either. He should be respected, but not admired or hated. --Quarantine Zone (talk) 02:48, March 12, 2013 (UTC)

Quote
Jhon Lewis --Wabba The I (talk) 16:46, March 7, 2013 (UTC)

I have to disagree. World War II ending in 1945 is a fact and Thomas Jefferson being the third president IS a fact. HORTON11 : •  18:07, March 7, 2013 (UTC)

Jhon Lewis saying that quote is also a fact. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 20:03, March 7, 2013 (UTC)

Personally I enjoy that quote. Not everything needs to pass through the scientific process. Hoffmann Kunarian TALK 20:33, March 7, 2013 (UTC)

I like it too, even though I don't agree with it at all. Me stating this is for example also a fact. 4kant,6FRÅGOR??? 20:40, March 7, 2013 (UTC)

Opinions don't fit in the scientific process but facts do, which is what this quote is against. HORTON11 : •  20:45, March 7, 2013 (UTC)

I'm indifferent about this xD i guess its wrong, but isn't that what the quote is saying in a sense that even things that are right are left open to anyone's own thoughts and ideas. Marcus/Michael Villanova 22:36, March 7, 2013 (UTC)

Then again, it's a fact no-one can verify all the facts - or actually, one fact at all without eventually citing a fact which can't be verified. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 09:44, March 8, 2013 (UTC)

Well what if there are throusands of publications out there to prove a fact. If you take for example "Obama was the first black President of the US", there are thousands of books, journals, newspaper articles all pointing to that. HORTON11 : •  14:05, March 8, 2013 (UTC)

Then it's still possible that all those thousands of books etc. all are lying :P 4kant,6FRÅGOR??? 15:03, March 8, 2013 (UTC)

I mean: It is not because someone has nothing against nazies that he was a Nazi. It is not because someone has nothing against racism, that he is a racist. It is not because 99% of the people say something, that the rest also must find that. And if people say "That is difficult!". What is "difficult"? Wabba The I (talk) 15:39, March 8, 2013 (UTC)

Well that's the same argument all holocaust deniers use, that the 99% (led by Jews) are conspiring to make the world believe it exists. HORTON11 : •  15:44, March 8, 2013 (UTC)
 * Let's not get into that shifty business shall we. Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 16:01, March 8, 2013 (UTC)
 * Shifty?? That's downright horrible. I had a survivor come to my school once, and I was saddened to hear her say that there were many people who denied what she went through ever existed. But you're right, let's not focus on this any more. HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 16:27, March 8, 2013 (UTC)
 * No, getting into things about the holocaust generally isn't a good idea especially when you start suggesting certain people believe certain things and start supposing about conspiracies. That is the shifty part. You'd do best not to get hot headed about these things because naivety about the holocaust will be your undoing. Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 17:30, March 8, 2013 (UTC)
 * Well I am not implying that anyone here is an anti-semite. I'm just saying that argument about the 99% is used by disbelievers, just like those who don't believe the moon landing took place, elvis died etc. And well Wabba did bring up Nazis and racism... HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 17:48, March 8, 2013 (UTC)
 * I truly beg to differ. There are many facts and opinions, but not everything is one or the other. Say, my favorite food is eggs. THAT is both my opinion on food and a fact at the same time. --Quarantine Zone (talk) 02:51, March 12, 2013 (UTC)
 * Not treally. That you like eggs is an opinion, that you SAID you like eggs is a fact.MMunson-talk ( Vote SLP ) 03:47, March 12, 2013 (UTC)
 * Agree with QZ. His favorit food is eggs (fact). QZ likes eggs (fact). But: Eggs are delicious (opinion). --O u WTBsjrief-mich 06:14, March 12, 2013 (UTC)

Lovian Times Polling in Sylvania
Using the three major parties in the area that can win in polls both settlements and in the countryside most frequently.

Here are some statements that different people make about different political parties. In each case, which party do you think it applies to most - Conservative Nationalists, Labour or the Social Liberals?


 * The kind of society it wants is broadly the kind of society I want...
 * CNP - 46%
 * LAB - 31%
 * SLP - 8%
 * None - 8%
 * Don't Know - 7%


 * It is led by people of real ability...
 * CNP - 50%
 * LAB - 17%
 * SLP - 8%
 * None - 17%
 * Don't Know - 8%


 * Its leaders are prepared to take tough and unpopular decisions...
 * CNP - 23%
 * LAB - 31%
 * SLP - 15%
 * None - 1%
 * Don't Know - 30%


 * It seems to chop and change all the time: you can never be quite sure what it stands for...
 * CNP - 8%
 * LAB - 33%
 * SLP - 8%
 * None - 8%
 * Don't Know - 43%


 * It seems rather old and tired...
 * CNP - 31%
 * LAB - 38%
 * SLP - 1%
 * None - 15%
 * Don't Know - 15%


 * Even if I don't always agree with it, at least its heart is in the right place...
 * CNP - 23%
 * LAB - 8%
 * SLP - 8%
 * None - 23%
 * Don't Know - 38%


 * It seems to have succeeded in moving on and left its past behind it...
 * CNP - 15%
 * LAB - 23%
 * SLP - 23%
 * None - 23%
 * Don't Know - 16%


 * It seems to appeal to one section of society rather than to the whole country...
 * CNP - 17%
 * LAB - 42%
 * SLP - 1%
 * None - 1%
 * Don't Know - 39%

I hope you enjoyed your polling today, I certainly did! :D

Comments
3 people have voted so far! interesting results! :D Hoffmann Kunarian TALK 19:01, March 11, 2013 (UTC)

I have mostly voted for my old party, CNP. I agree with them on many issues.  Happy65   Talk CNP   19:11, March 11, 2013 (UTC)
 * Thank you, I'm glad that we are still so close after everything. :) Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 19:12, March 11, 2013 (UTC)


 * Well, you never did anything wrong, I just wanted a bit of a true lovian politics change. I'm still center-right IRL.  Happy65   Talk CNP  LogoCNP.png 19:31, March 11, 2013 (UTC)
 * I understand. Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 19:42, March 11, 2013 (UTC)
 * Some mixed polling for Labour :D which is mostly good and some bad. I understang the one about appealing to one side. I don't blame it, on the split but since about 3/4 of the party is labour union members who have to appeal to your base, before the split we were more progressive and social democratic when it was 1/2 of the party being union members. Marcus/Michael Villanova 21:58, March 11, 2013 (UTC)

I voted objectively (obviously cause CCPL isn't in the voting) and it was very diverse :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 06:12, March 12, 2013 (UTC)

Btw, I still can't vote -- the polls look like they used to before they broke, but when I try to cast, it just reloads the page with a # at the end of it. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 10:54, March 12, 2013 (UTC)
 * You tried to refresh? --O u WTBsjrief-mich 11:24, March 12, 2013 (UTC)
 * Yes. And I was about to try to vote at school, but now the polls are closed. Sigh. o_o —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 19:07, March 14, 2013 (UTC)
 * Sorry! but don't worry, there's some more Statewide polling coming soon. :D Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 19:13, March 14, 2013 (UTC)

Glad to see the results coming in thick and fast! :D Hoffmann Kunarian TALK 13:27, March 12, 2013 (UTC)

Pope
What is Lovian's reaction at Francis I: Wabba The I (talk) 19:44, March 13, 2013 (UTC)
 * The first Argentinian Pope.
 * The first New World Pope.
 * The first Latin-American Pope.
 * The first Pope with the name "Francis".
 * The first Jesuit Pope.
 * The first Franciscan Pope. (He's not a Franciscan)
 * I think it is a good choice. Latin America is by far the most Catholic continent and it was about time a pope would come from this region. I personally don't think it matters he's specifically Argentinian. I've always admired the Jesuits for their disciplin and I hope pope Francis will be a reformer, who will bring back order in the chaotic Roman Catholic Church. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 07:23, March 14, 2013 (UTC)
 * Seems like a nice guy. :P About time for a non-European pope too, I think. I suppose we'll have to wait and see how he does, but it looks promising so far. Perhaps the Lovian Government should send an official letter of congratulation? --Semyon 14:10, March 14, 2013 (UTC)
 * Good idea :P 4kant,6FRÅGOR??? 14:11, March 14, 2013 (UTC)
 * My reation: Dirty War. It's not clear what he did but it wasn't nice. HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 14:22, March 14, 2013 (UTC)
 * I'm pretty sure those claims were not backed up with any sort of evidence. --Semyon 14:32, March 14, 2013 (UTC)
 * The whole situation is unclear as to what he did though he was involved (though not as extensively as some would suggest). It's widely known the clergy supported the military regime. HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 15:47, March 14, 2013 (UTC)
 * I doubt that: not protesting against something doesn't mean you support it. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 16:41, March 14, 2013 (UTC)
 * My thoughts exactly. Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 16:48, March 14, 2013 (UTC)
 * I like the fact that they chose someone from Latin America, but otherwise I'm not very enthusiastic. He's another homophobic conservative. I don't see the progress, really. Punarbhava (talk) 08:12, March 15, 2013 (UTC)
 * Progress? You know he's the leader of the Catholic Church, right? It's like saying the leader of an Islamic terrorist group should be a convinced atheist... --O u WTBsjrief-mich 17:46, March 15, 2013 (UTC)
 * I was going to say this as well. The Catholic Church doesn't exist to promote or endorse 'progress,' just as the purpose of the International Humanist and Ethical Union isn't to convert people to Christianity. --Semyon 12:17, March 18, 2013 (UTC)
 * Punarbhava, a large consensus among the Christian church is that the Conservative mindset fits better in the church. It's not a complete consensus, but a larger percentage of Christians are conservative than progressive. Also, his political views shouldn't conflict with his role that much. He's a religious leader, not a political leader. --Quarantine Zone (talk) 23:58, March 18, 2013 (UTC)

Back


Hi everybody,

It's Happy65. I am writing this to notify you why I haven't been very active recently. The reason is I have been very busy doing lots of other things, and I took a short wikibreak. By tommorow, I will have resumed to full activeness. I will vote on all the congress votes. There's not much else I can say now except that I am back and well.

Oh wait a minute, thanks Pet Eagle! I need to remind you to give us some suggestions on what we should rename the SCP to, shall we keep our christian large aspect, shall we move to center-left. Give us a suggestion today.

And that's about it, surely, I think so, oh yes? Happy65 Out  Happy65   Talk CNP   19:38, March 17, 2013 (UTC)


 * Welcome back, Happy! :) 4kant,6FRÅGOR??? 06:40, March 18, 2013 (UTC)

Keep a separate one-seat SCP, but make the majority either dissolve into other parties (probably not xD), like Labour, SLP, and CNP, or rename it to something centrist, like Centre Democrats. It could be aimed at farmers, perhaps. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 10:47, March 18, 2013 (UTC)


 * Like Happy said before, the party is Social-Democrat and Christian, so it's supposed to be a fusion of both, somewhere in the left/center-left. HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 13:00, March 18, 2013 (UTC)
 * Plus, I wouldn't trust the Centre Democrats after what happened in Brunant. HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 13:03, March 18, 2013 (UTC)


 * I have exams too: French, Dutch, Latin, maths, English, history, biology, chemy, fysiology, geography and religion. Wabba The I (talk) 18:02, March 18, 2013 (UTC)


 * Personally I think that the party should merge all of the remaining minor Christian parties. For a new name, you could simply use Lovian Christian Party. --Quarantine Zone (talk) 00:02, March 19, 2013 (UTC)
 * I don't think Oos would let that happen. :P 77topaz (talk) 02:39, March 19, 2013 (UTC)
 * Oos won't let that happen for practical reasons. QZ left because he thought we are too leftist. RTP is too conservative. Personally, I do not yet see a reason why SCP can't merge into CCPL. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 06:13, March 19, 2013 (UTC)
 * Haha, that would be hilarious. :D I think it should happen! --Semyon 08:30, March 19, 2013 (UTC)
 * CCPL lacks the social democratic aspects of SCP. 77topaz (talk) 08:40, March 19, 2013 (UTC)
 * Where does this idea come from? I don't think the parties are very similar either, but more because of the CCPL's social views than their economic views. Nevertheless, we won't know for sure until SCP publish a list of policies. --Semyon 08:53, March 19, 2013 (UTC)
 * Weh :P CCPL is more social-democratic than all parties in the US together :P @Semyon: as far as I've heard, the ethnical policy is rather the same. According to a chat with Happy, SCP is also anti-abortion, anti-gay marriage, anti-euthanasia etc. The only difference so far is that SCP is pro-women's voting rights :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 17:22, March 19, 2013 (UTC)
 * I thought CCPL supported women voting but not standing for election? :P OK then, in that case they probably are similar enough to merge. --Semyon 20:15, March 19, 2013 (UTC)
 * Well Happy must be mistaken, since we are no anti-abortion or anti-gay marriage. We're not just necessarily for though. HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 20:40, March 19, 2013 (UTC)
 * @Semyon: yes, we're anti passive voting rights :) However, party members can also choose to be anti active voting rights :P
 * @Happy: somewhat similar to CCPL still. We have "optional issues" (a member is free to choose whether or not he or she supports this issue. Any optional deviations are only accepted if they are written down in the text. CCPL) --O u WTBsjrief-mich 08:25, March 20, 2013 (UTC)

(Reset) I don't see why women shouldn't have voting rights. There are reasons for some things being separated, but both men and women are intelligible enough to vote and run for office...--Quarantine Zone (talk) 01:22, March 21, 2013 (UTC)
 * There are several Bible texts that are pretty clear to me concerning the position of women: Gen. 1:26,27, Gen. 3:16-19, 1 Petr. 3:1-7, 1 Korinthe 11:3, Spr. 31:12,27, 1 Tim. 2:11-15; 5:8. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 07:20, March 21, 2013 (UTC)
 * The Bible should not influence such things Pierlot McCrooke 17:25, March 21, 2013 (UTC)
 * I think it should :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 19:10, March 21, 2013 (UTC)
 * I agree with Pierlot. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 20:21, March 21, 2013 (UTC)
 * And this is why we have elections. Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 09:31, March 22, 2013 (UTC)

Chat anyone?
I'm currently online, if anyone wants to chat. Alternatively, you might want to avoid chat for a while. :P --Semyon 20:47, March 25, 2013 (UTC)

Buying a house
Hi, I have recently come to Lovia and would like to buy a house! Do I just do a simple edit on a house that is for sale to put my name on it, or is there a more complicated process? Thank you :) --- Frijoles333

Yes, Just put a simple edit. You are entitled to own up to three houses as a citizen. A user is granted citizenship after 50 useful edits :D. But for now just a simple edit on a FOR SALE house will do :D Marcus/Michael Villanova 18:49, March 26, 2013 (UTC)

Thanks a lot!!! That is a huge help :) Frijoles333

Television
Hey, I'm new to Lovia and have been working on a media group called Kaboom Media Group. I got the idea of making an information page about television in Lovia (Listing all the channels and popular shows). If there are any channels or other things you would like to suggest just let me know. Check out Kaboom Media Group or Kaboom TV if you're interested in Lovian media, my character is Marcel Cebara Frijoles333 (talk) 14:22, March 28, 2013 (UTC)

National Monument Service
As Marcus has pointed out, I have to appoint the chairman for the National Monument Service. Are there any interested people or shall I just randomly select someone? :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 07:49, March 31, 2013 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure you could just appoint one of your characters if you wanted to. :P 77topaz (talk) 09:45, March 31, 2013 (UTC)

Well, that is Plan B :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 12:12, March 31, 2013 (UTC)

Well we do have to new users not in congress :D Punhavarhaahahaha (his user name is odd :P) and Michael Cabera. Pun has been a tad inactive lately but Michael could fill the role if he wanted. Also I pointed out we need someone for the all important NPS position. Marcus/Michael Villanova 12:59, March 31, 2013 (UTC)

Well, I believe we should have someone with knowledge on the NMS chairfunction, preferrably someone who's slightly longer with us :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 13:28, March 31, 2013 (UTC)

Of course any labour party members will take any of the positions gladly! Marcus/Michael Villanova 16:43, March 31, 2013 (UTC)

As Oos said, I haven't been here long and don't have much experience, but I would very gladly fill the role if no one else wanted to Frijoles333 (talk) 17:02, March 31, 2013 (UTC)

Hockey
Hi and sorry bother you! I've just formed a hockey league for Lovia Lovian Hockey League and it would be great if anyone stepped forward to take over or sponsor one of the teams. If you wanted, you could even develop one if the teams. Thank you very much Frijoles333 (talk) 18:19, April 4, 2013 (UTC)
 * I am interested. I'll have a better look at it later today when I have some more time :) 4kant,6FRÅGOR??? 05:42, April 5, 2013 (UTC)

Thank you that's great :) Frijoles333 (talk) 06:59, April 5, 2013 (UTC)

Maybe the Sofasi and Bayside teams could be part of Athina Sofasi and Bay Hawks respectively? 77topaz (talk) 08:42, April 5, 2013 (UTC)

TAE would sponsor a team. --Quarantine Zone (talk) 16:13, April 5, 2013 (UTC)

Hotel Plains is definitely going to sponsor a team. 4kant,6FRÅGOR??? 19:12, April 5, 2013 (UTC)

Great! Do you have any idea of which team you would like to sponsor Frijoles333 (talk) 06:34, April 6, 2013 (UTC)

I think I'll sponsor Sofasi Storm :) 4kant,6FRÅGOR??? 07:42, April 6, 2013 (UTC)

Thank you, I'll make the edit now. Frijoles333 (talk) 15:01, April 7, 2013 (UTC)

Newspapers
Hi, I'm looking for writers to write short pieces of news for the local sections of the The Daily Sylvanian, The Newhaven Mercury and The Northern Telegraph. This is a good example of what I mean, only of course local news, whereas that template is national. It wouldn't have to be updated more than every few days, especially if there's more than one contributor, and the 'articles' are very short, so hopefully noöne would find it too taxing. :) Governors and Deputies of the respective states, I'm looking at you. :P --Semyon 18:56, April 6, 2013 (UTC)

I asked Semyon if I could occasionally write for the TNCT and he said yes on chat. Note to self.  Happy65   Talk CNP   18:37, April 11, 2013 (UTC)
 * Note to you: indeed. :) --Semyon 18:32, April 13, 2013 (UTC)

Anyone else? :P --Semyon 18:32, April 13, 2013 (UTC)
 * Oceana's already been served :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 09:22, April 14, 2013 (UTC)

Rating template
Can someone transfer   to Lovia so the "Rating" template can work? For some reason, my computer will only let me save files as .png or .bmp. 77topaz (talk) 00:06, April 7, 2013 (UTC)

We don't have any other .svgs here, so I would advise just saving the 2000px .png on your computer and uploading it. :P —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 01:08, April 7, 2013 (UTC)

But then, I'd need to edit the template syntax. :P 77topaz (talk) 01:33, April 7, 2013 (UTC)

Okay, I'll try it: 77topaz (talk) 01:38, April 7, 2013 (UTC)

Argh, two more templates that need to be copied. :P 77topaz (talk) 01:39, April 7, 2013 (UTC)

Returning
Ok, Now I've certainly been inactive on this wiki for a while, and have said I will return multiple times. I have decided to fully regain activeness on this wiki, as I enjoy it sincerely. The Harvian Islands will too return, and I have also picked up my editing skills editing on some other wikis. I will be actively voting in the Chambers and will be devoting lots of time and effort to the wiki. Nice to see everyone again.  Happy65   Talk CNP   18:33, April 9, 2013 (UTC)

Glad to see you back :D Marcus/Michael Villanova 20:38, April 9, 2013 (UTC)

Welcome back :) --O u WTBsjrief-mich 08:17, April 10, 2013 (UTC)

Welcome back :) Hopefully you will stay active this time :) 4kant,6FRÅGOR??? 13:34, April 10, 2013 (UTC)

A question to the community: I'm not very sure about scp, should we de-form it and move back before it's existance?  Happy65   Talk CNP   09:52, April 11, 2013 (UTC)

yes (my capital y is not working), I think that would be good. Keep a one or two member party that supports very modern views like the party with a similar name in Switzerland, and change the Maples back to the number they had before SCP formed (were two, then six, then four, go back to two). no (capital n isn't working either) more than two people with the same last name if possible. Also, I just think the people in the party would fit best elsewhere, and the ideology doesn't fit with the name. Preferably it would be put back to the way it was in early February. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 19:24, April 11, 2013 (UTC)

Election notice
Just to let anyone know, elections are being held in Brunant, starting tomorrow. (Semyon if you want to add this to your newspapers feel free). HORTON11 : •  15:57, April 11, 2013 (UTC)


 * I don't think I am gonna win with Stanton. Wabba The I (talk) 17:38, April 11, 2013 (UTC)
 * You never know. Plus, you have Oos in your party, and he is an experienced politician. HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 17:43, April 11, 2013 (UTC)


 * He is word class. WORLD HERITAGE SITE OOS WES ILAVA. Wabba The I (talk) 18:09, April 11, 2013 (UTC)

These shouldn't be happening in my vision of Brunant. :( —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 19:20, April 11, 2013 (UTC)

YEah, it should suscribe under the "One Model" nation where major thinggs like government and politics are sorta secondary and in turncontrolled by one or two people. Marcus/Michael Villanova 19:38, April 11, 2013 (UTC)

It was but than other users came and it changed in a country with politics on the first place. Everybody wants to be mayor or senator or president or ... Wabba The I (talk) 09:00, April 12, 2013 (UTC)

IWO trade
I'm hoping to hold an IWO debate on resolving IWO trade. Check this page out; I just added a little blurb, so tell me what you guys think. (We could do actual in-character discussions like in real meetings). HORTON11 : •  17:38, April 16, 2013 (UTC)

Libertas becoming a full member of the IWO
In the Second Chamber we all voted. We have already 45% pro. I just need some more votes. Please! I need your support!!!! Wabba The I (talk) 17:50, April 16, 2013 (UTC)

Shouldn't the voting have ended already? I thought bills could only be voted on for two weeks? 77topaz (talk) 20:24, April 16, 2013 (UTC)

The law says the proposer can lengthen the voting period if they wish - as and Wabba is asking for more votes, that implies he does wish. It doesn't say that he has to make it explicit. :) --Semyon 20:31, April 16, 2013 (UTC)

It is now passed with a 51% majority at least as QZ did not specify the number of pro votes. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 01:13, April 17, 2013 (UTC)

Now we need to edit pages. For decleration in Dutch: see here. Wabba The I (talk) 11:14, April 17, 2013 (UTC)


 * Wabba, Brunant hasn't yet voted, so Libertas still isn't a member of IWO yet. HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 13:03, April 17, 2013 (UTC)


 * When is that vote? Wabba The I (talk) 14:11, April 17, 2013 (UTC)
 * It would be after the elections. HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 14:20, April 17, 2013 (UTC)


 * When you are gonna vote in those elections? Wabba The I (talk) 14:25, April 17, 2013 (UTC)
 * Soon. I like to take my time in voting. BTW, do you think we should do some football friendlies between Libertas, Brunant, Lovia etc? HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 14:32, April 17, 2013 (UTC)


 * Soon. First Brunanter elections, Libertan royal house, Libertas becoming full member of IWO, fix up the football team page of Brunant ... Wabba The I (talk) 14:39, April 17, 2013 (UTC)

We need to outdo them.
Challenge accepted, Norway. :P --Semyon 07:48, April 21, 2013 (UTC)

and Wales :P i think we need one of these. Perhaps a pig? :P Marcus/Michael Villanova 12:44, April 21, 2013 (UTC)

Well we have no military yet. If we were to do this in Brunant, we'd need a couple of lions and a dragon, sine they're the animals on the coat of arms. HORTON11 : •  14:33, April 21, 2013 (UTC)

Maybe we could have an army of Pigs, Goats and Penguins :D I'd vote pro :P And it would finally give something Joshua Katz to do Marcus/Michael Villanova 14:58, April 21, 2013 (UTC)

A worrysome issue
See this and this. I find it troubling that Mäöres, a member of the IWO, would actively provide arms to a dictatorial regime. This sudden escalation of events needs to be discussed and acted on. HORTON11 : •  14:47, April 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * Not at all, wouldn't you intervene if rebels were taking over Lovia? Isn't that exactly what was UNLOR about in the Civil War? --O u WTBsjrief-mich 14:08, April 26, 2013 (UTC)
 * Are rebels taking over Tagog? No. So there is no need to provide arms to a government. And UNLOR was a UN mission; no wikination provided Lovia with arms. HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 14:37, April 26, 2013 (UTC)
 * The president has been elected via democratic elections time by time. This illegal oposition which is trying to excercise power of the country should be stopped. If Tagog does not have the weapons to do that; it is our tasks as peace-loving country to provide them with weapons, how contradictive that might sound. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 14:43, April 26, 2013 (UTC)
 * It's not democratic if you get banned for disagreeing with the president and if the opposition is systematically assassinated. And if the opposition is declared as "illegal", then it would contradict the whole purpose of democracy. The whole deal about the opposition rising up is a bunch of lies invented by the government; there is no proof to that and the only thing those members are doing it trying to protect themselves from the next state-sponsored hitman to come along. HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 14:53, April 26, 2013 (UTC)
 * Having signed the IWO charter to uphold the valued of democracy, it is our duty to proctect the lives of people advocating for it. HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 14:55, April 26, 2013 (UTC)
 * I couldn't disagree more... They've erected a "Shadow Parliament".. In Mäöres that would result in imprisonment; in Lovia too... --O u WTBsjrief-mich 14:58, April 26, 2013 (UTC)
 * Given that the opposition is given no involvement whatsoever in government affairs, I fully support the Shadow Parliament. And I don't know what you fear in them, as they have no power or influence at all. BTW, by saying "I couldn't disagree more", are you disagreeing with the IWO's stance on democracy? HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 15:04, April 26, 2013 (UTC)
 * As I said, they shouldn't've voted for him as a nation then. The majority still supports him. And no, cuz IWO has no official definition of democracy. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 15:30, April 26, 2013 (UTC)\
 * ==Taking over==

Coup
I am Ygo August Donia, leader of the Donia Clan, Lord of Donia Castle, Ruler of the Emerald Highlands and commander of the Brigade, which I have regrouped, equipped and trained over the course of last year. Hailing from an old noble family, which roots are far more worthy of the throne then Dmitri and his lazy, worthless relatives, I wish to bestow upon myself the crown of this nation.

I do not wish to rule the nation, I do not wish to act as a dictator nor to become the acting Head of State in any other way then a purely symbolical one. To be a King who unites the people rather then to devide them. To be a uniting force, a driving force, encouraging the development of better relationships between the many groups and people of this beautiful country I so love.

There will be no bloodshed, for this coup is a peaceful one. Our King can retire and step aside, for me to be crowned in Noble City on the 30th of October, along with my good friend William-Alexander. If he does not we will escort him from his palace, and burn it to the ground. Long live Lovia! Long may she live and flourish! The glorious First Consul of Rome (talk) 16:17, April 26, 2013 (UTC)
 * Nice try though :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 16:20, April 26, 2013 (UTC)
 * Nothing is happening so why not do something exciting? It's so... dull... plus who is gonna stop me? Not like we got an army. You guys learned nothing from the Civil War. Ha! Don't question my authority. I'll promote regional values and safeguard the culture of Oceana, Oos. You with me? The glorious First Consul of Rome (talk) 16:23, April 26, 2013 (UTC)
 * Can we get the State Laws back then? :o --O u WTBsjrief-mich 16:32, April 26, 2013 (UTC)
 * Why of course, my dear! I'm all for State Laws and more de-centralization. No complete autonomy but more then we have now, definetely. The glorious First Consul of Rome (talk) 16:41, April 26, 2013 (UTC)

Heh, interesting but we do now have a 800 around police force with actual training requirements, they'll not back down I don't think. Hoffmann Kunarian TALK 17:33, April 26, 2013 (UTC)
 * And I've also just realised that that number (800 police) is actually quadruple what it was two years ago (the Lovian civil war). Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 18:03, April 26, 2013 (UTC)
 * Then me and about 80 of my brave comrades and brothers-in-arms will either win, or go down in a blaze of glory. It's all or nothing now. This is our time to shine, for the clan, the nation, and our people's future. One for the ages! The glorious First Consul of Rome (talk) 18:05, April 26, 2013 (UTC)
 * Haven't you and your characters died like 5 times already xD can't you just stay that way :P Marcus/Michael Villanova 20:31, April 26, 2013 (UTC)
 * Some of them died, some of them survived. It ain't over till it's over, Mikey Mike. Another one bites the dust. Who wants to live forever. Boom chakalaka. The glorious First Consul of Rome (talk) 21:26, April 26, 2013 (UTC)
 * lol xD maybe you could all be reainimated into one super nationalistic army to overthrow the government. I'd even join ;p Marcus/Michael Villanova 21:33, April 26, 2013 (UTC)

With the Tagog situation ongoing, I don't think we have any time for this. :P 77topaz (talk) 21:34, April 26, 2013 (UTC)

I'm not fully understanding what happening there tbh, but i'd like to know so I don't gotta deal with domestic terrorists :P Marcus/Michael Villanova 21:37, April 26, 2013 (UTC)

There's a dictatorship led by 4kant, and then there's the Resistance against it; Maores supports the regime but I don't think anyone else does. :P Plus, there's Burenia's threat of invading Lovia over some remark Happy65 apparently made in a chat. :P 77topaz (talk) 21:40, April 26, 2013 (UTC)

Oh, and the regime attempted to assassinate the opposition leaders, who have now left Tagog for personal safety reasons. :P 77topaz (talk) 21:44, April 26, 2013 (UTC)


 * I will attack whoever is against me, and support whoever is with me. I will not fight unless provoked. I will not lay down my arms. And Marcus, I hardly have a "gigantic army". It's still the same old Brigade with some new recruits. Feel free to join! The glorious First Consul of Rome (talk) 21:52, April 26, 2013 (UTC)
 * Quite complicated I see xD Burenia was wiki is that even xD Im too lost with all these ikinations. Marcus/Michael Villanova 22:30, April 26, 2013 (UTC)
 * This is Burenia. This is Tagog. This is a list of all known wikinations. 77topaz (talk) 00:27, April 27, 2013 (UTC)

@77topaz: wrong, wrong, wrong :P How could you forget Reptin? :o They also support Qyto's reign :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 09:45, April 27, 2013 (UTC)

The Southern Cross Alliance will be prepared at the peaks of the Emerald Mountains, and trenched in at were the Sylvanian Plains and Stephen Headlands meet. We will always have the Lovian standard flying high over Charleston. ---Sunkist- (talk) 09:53, April 27, 2013 (UTC)
 * I thought you guys wanted your own state :P This is your chance I'd say :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 09:56, April 27, 2013 (UTC)
 * We want our own state, not our own nation! We love Lovia in Western Sylvania! -Sunkist- (talk) 10:01, April 27, 2013 (UTC)
 * Yeah, but with a new king, you might get your own state :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 10:06, April 27, 2013 (UTC)
 * @TMV: Anyway, didn't you retire from Lovia a few months ago? :P
 * @Oos: Hadn't Reptin been abandoned? Are they even members of the IWO? :P 77topaz (talk) 10:56, April 27, 2013 (UTC)
 * Aren't all these militas illegal under the law anyway? How are these even legal? Marcus/Michael Villanova 11:43, April 27, 2013 (UTC)
 * Read the law, militias are illegal. These are hunting organisations. Besides the Police can handle it. Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 13:19, April 27, 2013 (UTC)
 * @Reptin: Yes, associate member :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 15:01, April 27, 2013 (UTC)
 * I'd like to see the arresting of a Pro-Lovian group that fought to defend Lovia in the Civil War and continues to defend against rebels. But you know, we are evil. -Sunkist- (talk) 21:56, April 27, 2013 (UTC)
 * I, too, fought for my country in the Civil War, as did my Brigade, my brothers and sisters in arms, brave men and women who stood for what they believed in. Who fought and died for it. Some even went to jail for it, still are in. Now new recruits have joined our ranks, our forces strengthened, supplied by me with more weaponry to do what is right. To fight for what is right, and to stand tall and proud of being Lovian. You can take your Southern Cross, my dear boy, and take it where the sun don't shine. And leave the fighting to the REAL men. War is no place for the likes of you. The battlefield far from the playground you belong. And if you believe otherwise, by all means, show yourself and prove your worth. Prove it, in the face of our fury. As you face the one true King of Lovia. A cause worth fighting for, and one well worth dying for. The glorious First Consul of Rome (talk) 04:40, April 28, 2013 (UTC)
 * Well, I'm glad you've arranged for a queen then :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 09:51, April 28, 2013 (UTC)
 * A Burenian queen, perhaps? Or one from good ol' Tagog? Strengthening ties between nations, never a bad thing. The glorious First Consul of Rome (talk) 15:22, April 28, 2013 (UTC)
 * I'm pretty sure Burenia and Tagog are republics. :P 77topaz (talk) 20:49, April 28, 2013 (UTC)

Oh, the humanity!
This must be the worst political situation that has befallen Lovia, and probably the rest of the IWO as well, since the Lovian Civil War. :( Firstly, there's the Tagog issue, which is dividing the IWO and probably costing innocent lives. Then, there's Burenia's threats of invading Lovia over a small statement made by one user. And finally, there's Donia, who's threatening to wage military action on Noble City and possibly plunge the whole country into a second civil war.

Have I missed anything out? :P 77topaz (talk) 08:30, April 28, 2013 (UTC)


 * Yes, you have. The glorious First Consul of Rome (talk) 08:37, April 28, 2013 (UTC)
 * Does Mäöres's Landjszaal inactivity count? :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 09:52, April 28, 2013 (UTC)
 * @TMV: Thanks for the support. :P 4kant might just block you on Tagog though. :P
 * @Oos: When compared to all the other crisises going around, not really, though it is something that should be fixed. 77topaz (talk) 10:48, April 28, 2013 (UTC)
 * Hahaha :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 10:56, April 28, 2013 (UTC)

I have no idea what to do. xD —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 12:55, April 28, 2013 (UTC)

Ask the North Koreans for assistance :D Marcus/Michael Villanova 13:59, April 28, 2013 (UTC)

@77topaz: it's no big deal, Tagog won't invade, there'll just be more repression of innocent civilians. Burenia won't invade either, since Kob will ally with any opponent of the sakari Burenii. :P Lastly, we have a specially unit trained to deal with psychiatric cases which we can deploy if the Brigade tries any tricks. --Semyon 14:49, April 28, 2013 (UTC)


 * Tricks are for magicians and girls, we do not play games. We say what we do, and do what we say. We give out ultimatums, and they are as clear as they are strict. There is no way to misinterpret them. My army and my family will never fail to support me. Before the end of April, I will sit on my throne. Dimitri has done a good job in keeping it warm for my royal ass. One far more deserving to occupy it. The glorious First Consul of Rome (talk) 14:56, April 28, 2013 (UTC)
 * For your information and consideration, my friends. After Tagog, too has been contacted. The glorious First Consul of Rome (talk) 15:22, April 28, 2013 (UTC)

Poll
Who would you rather have as Lovian monarch? Dimitri Noble Ygo August Donia Other None of the above - I'm a republican

--Semyon 17:34, April 30, 2013 (UTC)

No matter with how many accounts and from how many computers Dimitri logs in to vote for himself on this pathetic little poll, I am currently marching on to Noble City, supported by military leaders from two seperate wikinations and several people within the capital. I am marching onto Noble City and either our lazy, worthless and inactive King, who lives on our taxpayer's money and does absolutely nothing, leaves the palace by his free will... or he will be kicked out. Not a hair on his precious royal head will be hurt but he will be booted out. He can do so by his own free will or I'll help him a little. My ultimatum was very clear. The glorious First Consul of Rome (talk) 20:47, April 30, 2013 (UTC)

I doubt Dimitri is going to log in and vote for himself - he hasn't been active on the site these past few weeks. He might not even have noticed the whole situation yet. :P 77topaz (talk) 04:00, May 1, 2013 (UTC)

A word from your new king
My ultimatum was loud and clear. Impossible not to understand. May the First, I said. So May the First it is. A day that will go down in history as the last of King Dimitri's reign, and the first of King Ygo's. So here, my good citizens, is word from your king. The glorious First Consul of Rome (talk) 21:14, April 30, 2013 (UTC)

Chat
If anyone wants to come on chat, TMV and I are currently online. :) --Semyon 22:18, April 30, 2013 (UTC)

About this conflict
In case anyone wasn't aware, if a user creates a situation then you don't have to accept it, you can challenge it and get it wiped out of history. For both IC and OOC reasons this 'march on the Palace' can't be happening. OOC we had a civil war two years ago and I'm personally unwilling to see that sort of destruction again, as I hope most users are. IC it's ridiculous that a loony cyclops whose illegal 'militia' was crushed two years ago and which has had to (allegedly) 'rebuild' in secret can be posing any sort of challenge to a highly trained and numerically superior police force. As you might have realised by now, I'm rather fed up. --Semyon 15:17, May 1, 2013 (UTC)


 * It's reported in Newspapers already. It has happened. It is happening. And I will most likely lose, if it's any comfort, before it can turn into a civil war. The glorious First Consul of Rome (talk) 15:22, May 1, 2013 (UTC)
 * Not actually an issue, as the articles in question could simply be removed - though I don't think that's a good idea, I'd prefer to have a quick and bloodless surrender. --Semyon 15:40, May 1, 2013 (UTC)
 * We had a Civil War before that is true. And another one would be a shame but I don't see that happening at all. This "loony cyclops" had his army locked up, yes. He is, however, also a man of power and influence who was in many parliaments, who was once the Prime Minister. Who owns a castle and heads a clan. Who started a private army, years ago. And has since been rebuilding it. It is not that large a force, anyway. If anything my 60 Brigadiers is a lot more reasonable and realistic then the 500(!) hunters says he is sending to Noble City as back-up for the Police Force. That being said, this battle is one we will likely lose. But it will only end without bloodshed if Dimitri leaves that Palace. I will not surrender, quickly nor bloodlessly, unless the King leaves his Palace, and the Police Force and I somehow come to an agreement. And the battle has already begun. The glorious First Consul of Rome (talk) 15:57, May 1, 2013 (UTC)
 * I'd suggest to wait on the referendum results or a vote in the Second Chamber before doing anything stupid. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 18:06, May 1, 2013 (UTC)
 * Kunarian decided to fire at me, thus effectively starting the battle already. Then we both had some reinforcements coming in, him of course having more men at his command. In all likelihood I have lost the battle by now, or am currently losing it. Dimitri, if he has any common sense, would have fled the palace to safety somewhere in Noble City. I am however not the King because with all the police around the Palace, I am unable to hold on to it or stay in it for long. We are basically a republic now. Until further notice or word from the King (him remaining to stay) or the Public (wishing to remain a monarchy). The glorious First Consul of Rome (talk) 18:18, May 1, 2013 (UTC)
 * Dimitri doesn't cease to be king when he leaves the palace. --Semyon 18:34, May 1, 2013 (UTC)
 * It is merely a step in a larger process for him to at least leave the Palace until the situation is more stable and certain. But, realistically speaking, I cannot take over the Palace as it is now because the Police Force would first have to take a step down and allow me to enter the Palace. And we should ceaze all hositilities on both sides. See? I can be a bit of a realist too, sometimes. Frankly, I don't see the Police Force taking it down a notch any time soon, but the least we could do is negotiate. The glorious First Consul of Rome (talk) 18:56, May 1, 2013 (UTC)

More about this conflict
Hello Lovians, I am Marcel Cebara. I know that I am not the most active user, and not very high in Lovian society, but as a Lovian citizen, I feel that Lovia deserves a stable government. That is why I propose that measures are put in place that will prevent future coups, and situations like this, without infringing on human rights. I propose that Lovians work together and co-operate to achieve democracy and campaign for fair and stable government. This conflict needs to be put to rest as soon as possible. I hope that this situation can end quickly and peacefully Frijoles333 (talk) 19:09, May 1, 2013 (UTC)


 * With the King having fled the palace, the palace is currently empty. There has been fighting and there are casualties, but hostilities at this point have largely ceazed. The situation is at a standstill. There is still unrest in Noble City, there is fighting in the streets though on a small scale. The police is stationed outside the palace making it hard for me to enter again, thet fought off the assault but Dimitri left and found refuge somewhere else in the capital. I am, at this point, willing to negotiate on the next step to take. The glorious First Consul of Rome (talk) 19:13, May 1, 2013 (UTC)

What is this "next step" that you are proposing? Frijoles333 (talk) 19:22, May 1, 2013 (UTC)

Just to clarify, I am not in support of your overthrowing of the Lovian monarchy Frijoles333 (talk) 19:24, May 1, 2013 (UTC)


 * I would like King Dimitri I of Lovia to renounce all claims to the throne and formally step down. If only for the time being. I wish for myself to be pardoned of any crimes committed or any laws broken during my march on the capital and any subsequent fighting. When this pardon is granted I will leave the city, dismiss my Brigadiers and let the politicians decide on how to handle the situation - who should be king, who should not be, or whether we should just become a republic. The glorious First Consul of Rome (talk) 19:28, May 1, 2013 (UTC)

Southern Cross Alliance
The Southern Cross Alliance, having already organised several days ago has now deployed deeper into the Emerald Highlands, reading to breach the Donia Castle. Alexander Charles Bennett, the Charleston Federal Police and Charleston Fire Department and a large array of farmers and citizens, its banners will include that of the Lovian standard, the Western Sylvanian and Southern Cross flags. We hope that when the Donia clan returns to his beloved castle, that he lay down his weapons and that of his armies to that of the people of Western Sylvania and the people of Lovia. -Sunkist- (talk) 22:29, May 1, 2013 (UTC)


 * For the love my family, the clan, our honour and the well-being of my children, I, Ygo August Donia, head of the Donia Clan, leader and patriarch of the family and lord of Donia Castle, hereby surrender myself and all the Brigadiers that are with me, into the hands of the Southern Cross Alliance. On the condition that not a single hair on the heads of my family be hurt, and not a single brick touched. We lay down our arms. And we surrender. We played this game, and we lost. Now we are at your mercy. The glorious First Consul of Rome (talk) 22:42, May 1, 2013 (UTC)

TMV has said in chat that he thinks we should create an article on the crisis, but I'm worried that that might trigger an edit war, because of everyone having different positions in the matter. What does everyone else think? 77topaz (talk) 23:11, May 1, 2013 (UTC)