Forum:Second Chamber

__NEWSECTIONLINK__ In Lovia, Congress is the national legislative body and the most powerful branch of government. The Second Chamber is one of the two chambers of Congress, located in the Capitol in Downtown Noble City, in which the Members of the Congress vote bills that originated in the First Chamber. Paradoxically, Lovia does not have a bicameral parliament: there is only one group of MOTCs that both debates and votes the proposals. For the current composition of Congress, see 2012 First Congress.

Whereas all national citizens may propose bills in the First Chamber, only Members of the Congress may vote them in the Second Chamber. Article 6 of the Constitution states that "all Members of the Congress are expected to vote on the motion in the Second Chamber". They have three legal voting options: "pro (in favor of the motion), contra (in opposition to the motion) and abstention (the wish not to vote)." Further more, they "have two weeks’ time to cast their vote in the Second Chamber. Voting may be closed earlier if the required majority is reached. The proposer may also choose to lengthen the voting period."

A normal majority ("fifty percent of the valid votes") is required to pass a motion amending the Federal Law. To vote on Constitutional amendments, a special majority ("more than two thirds of the valid votes") is required to pass a amendment. The special majority requirement was lowered from three quarters to two thirds in the 2010 State Reform (Sixth Amendment). All proposals approved by Congress, by the required majority and in due time, must be implemented by the government of Lovia.

001. Government
I propose the following Government, Government Oos Wes Ilava II:
 * Prime Minister
 * Oos Wes Ilava
 * Ministry of Food, Agriculture, and Fisheries
 * Charles Alexander Bennett
 * Ministry of Commerce
 * Dave Leskromento
 * Ministry of Culture
 * Oos Wes Ilava
 * Ministry of Defense
 * Lukas Hoffmann
 * Ministry of Education and Research
 * William Krosby
 * Ministry of Energy and Resources
 * Charles Alexander Bennett
 * Ministry of Environment
 * Nicholas Sheraldin
 * Ministry of Family, Youth, and Elderly
 * Oos Wes Ilava
 * Ministry of Finance
 * William Krosby
 * Ministry of Foreign Affairs
 * Justin Abrahams
 * Ministry of Health
 * Taiyō no Eisei
 * Ministry of Justice
 * Dave Leskromento
 * Ministry of Labour
 * Marcus Villanova
 * Ministry of Tourism and Sport
 * Nicholas Sheraldin
 * Ministry of Transportation
 * Jhon Lewis
 * Speaker of the Congress
 * Semyon Breyev

Pro

 * 13 votes. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 07:54, February 7, 2013 (UTC) (CCPL - OSB)
 * 4 votes. 77topaz (talk) 08:31, February 7, 2013 (UTC)
 * 8 votes. But we should have the people with two posts use another character for their second post. I'll probably keep Galahad on Finance like last year. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 12:01, February 7, 2013 (UTC)
 * 7 votes. fantastic stuff, here's to a new year of success Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 12:22, February 7, 2013 (UTC)
 * 4 votes. Wabba The I (talk) 17:22, February 7, 2013 (UTC)
 * 3 votes. Fantastic. --Quarantine Zone (talk) 17:56, February 7, 2013 (UTC)
 * 5 votes. OK, I'll support this. --Semyon 18:53, February 7, 2013 (UTC)
 * 6 votes (Read comments made by Hoffmann, totally correct. The users, and while I'm against QZ as health minister (i'm proud hes active), are inactive and wouldn't be able to fufill there jobs) Marcus/Michael Villanova 21:49, February 7, 2013 (UTC)
 * 2 votes. Daembrales (talk) 23:00, February 7, 2013 (UTC)
 * 5 votes. -Sunkist- (talk) 00:08, February 8, 2013 (UTC)
 * 9 votes  Happy65   Talk CNP  LogoCNP.png 07:12, February 8, 2013 (UTC)

Contra

 * - Oh, I see how it is. - 5 votes — Christopher Costello (Pikapi • Chat  • What's up ) 21:29, February 7, 2013 (UTC)

Abstain

 * 1 vote. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 07:54, February 7, 2013 (UTC) (RTP)
 * 5 votes. Horton is right. --Semyon 19:01, February 7, 2013 (UTC)
 * 2 votes .Granero (talk) 01:06, February 8, 2013 (UTC)

✅ The Ilava II Government is now in power. :D —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 00:22, February 8, 2013 (UTC)

Comments
Users like Granero and Daembrales have all shown interest in having a ministry position, so we should include them. HORTON11 : •  13:27, February 7, 2013 (UTC)
 * To a degree I do agree however I think that the lack of year round activity and lack of a well developed position known to the citizens of the wikia makes it hard for us to confidently include them. I think a good idea would be to have a reshuffle of the government in maybe 3, 4 or 6 months and review the positions that they have shown interest in and see if they: a) are active enough to assume positions and b) have shown attempts to develop that area of interest in lovia. Personally I think a review in three months would be good and would hardly be unfair. We address concerns and ensure that if they are properly addressed they get the positions they deserve. Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 14:33, February 7, 2013 (UTC)


 * When starts it? Wabba The I (talk) 17:22, February 7, 2013 (UTC)
 * Then again it might be better to include more users than having a select few with two or more (Oos being the exception). And going on the year round activity, Granero and Pikapi have been as active as Sunkist, yet they have none and he has two. I would like to see further inclusion now, and in a few monts when we do the review we can reshuffle the ministries of less active users. HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 18:31, February 7, 2013 (UTC)
 * The few who have two are normally the ones who were unchallenged in the positions they chose or whose positions were only challenged by other people with multiple positions. It is impossible to include users in positions that they want when that position they want is occupied by a person with that position only. This is the problem you do not seem to see. On the matter of Sunkist, Sunkist has been a lot more active than Granero and Pikapi (who didn't even show interest in a position) recently (over the past three months) and you fail to also consider he was almost completely unchallenged for those positions. This is inclusion as far as we can get it with the people who want these positions. Too many people want the same positions, we can't please everyone so we've chosen the people we think are best. I'd hope you'd agree rather than bring up points that have been repeatedly addressed. I'm glad you're on board for the review though, I think that if we have tri-monthly reviews we can keep government active and reward users with commitment and interest, it's good to have you on board for that. Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 19:20, February 7, 2013 (UTC)
 * We could just give Daembrales and Granero one of the relatively unchallenged positions. Though I would still like to review the Health position  (nah, his Bismarck ideas are a step in the right direction, so it's fine)  HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 19:30, February 7, 2013 (UTC)
 * We don't want to give them a position they don't want and ask them to be responsible for it, that's unfair on both them and the people who take and interest too. Glad you've come around, the Bismarck model is a model for universal healthcare, he's on our side with this, truly. Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 21:48, February 7, 2013 (UTC)

I'm okay with not having a post. =) I think that there are better candidates than me, as i am not too active and not too experienced either. However, i would appreciate a ministry if someone thinks i am fit for the job. :D Daembrales (talk) 23:00, February 7, 2013 (UTC)

@Daembrales - Remember you have multiple congresspersons, (2 i think) vote with them Marcus/Michael Villanova 23:10, February 7, 2013 (UTC)

@Pikapi - You didn't sign up for any ministries. Even if you are active, a major party head, and former Minister of Commerce, you didn't sign up for anything :/ @Horton - A lot of Americans don't support universal healthcare at all. I just don't want taxes funding things like gender switches and what not. For legitimate medical treatment it makes sense to pay for people, but when it's something like that, I don't see a need for others to pay for it. --Quarantine Zone (talk) 23:47, February 7, 2013 (UTC)

Sunkist seems to prefer simply the name "Ministry of Agriculture". Should we continue using that name or use the new longer name, or perhaps a compromise between the two as simply "Food and Agriculture"? —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 02:21, February 8, 2013 (UTC)

Should or shouldn't separate people be used for separate ministries (e.g. Nicholas Sheraldin for Minister of Environment, Levi Straszev for Minister of Tourism and Sport)? 77topaz (talk) 02:58, February 8, 2013 (UTC)

Yes, but you get to decide. You could even use one of George's or Viva's users. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 03:22, February 8, 2013 (UTC)

Okay. Should a page Ilava II Government be created, and the ministers be listed there? 77topaz (talk) 03:41, February 8, 2013 (UTC)
 * Eventually :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 06:10, February 8, 2013 (UTC)
 * Why not yet? :P 77topaz (talk) 07:18, February 8, 2013 (UTC)
 * @ Quarantine Zone- Are boob jobs and sex changes medical necessities? No, so we should not include those in any law. You are right in that I'd like to fund our healthcare through taxes, but we need limits. Cosmetic changes for vanity purposes should not be covered. HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 14:05, February 8, 2013 (UTC)

SCJ
This is where the supreme court judges shall be elected.

Kevin Madison (Happy65)

 * 9 votes  Happy65   Talk CNP  LogoCNP.png 11:05, February 17, 2013 (UTC)
 * 3 votes Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 11:46, February 17, 2013 (UTC)
 * 1 vote Marcus/Michael Villanova 14:21, February 17, 2013 (UTC)
 * 3 votes Wabba isn't going to win, and I'm voting for you over Ismagiloff --Quarantine Zone (talk) 03:06, February 24, 2013 (UTC)
 * 4 votes HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 13:59, February 25, 2013 (UTC)

Ygo August Donia (TMV)

 * 7 votes. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 06:14, February 22, 2013 (UTC)

Arthur Ismagiloff (Semyon)

 * 2 votes Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 11:46, February 17, 2013 (UTC)
 * 3 votes Marcus/Michael Villanova 14:21, February 17, 2013 (UTC)
 * I would vote Pro, but in character, I don't think this guy has enough experience. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 13:41, February 17, 2013 (UTC)
 * 5 votes -Sunkist- (talk) 05:26, February 22, 2013 (UTC)
 * 7 votes. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 06:14, February 22, 2013 (UTC)

Victor Veldhoven (GP)

 * 2 votes —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 13:41, February 17, 2013 (UTC)
 * 1 vote Marcus/Michael Villanova 14:21, February 17, 2013 (UTC)
 * 4 votes 77topaz (talk) 19:07, February 17, 2013 (UTC)
 * 2 votes HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 13:59, February 25, 2013 (UTC)

Owen Stanton (Wabba The I)

 * 4 votes Wabba The I (talk) 17:34, February 17, 2013 (UTC)
 * 3 votes. Nathan of Fleffenstool (talk) 23:55, February 21, 2013 (UTC)

Samantha Brown (TimeMaster)

 * 2 votes Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 11:46, February 17, 2013 (UTC)
 * 6 votes —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 13:41, February 17, 2013 (UTC)
 * 1 vote Marcus/Michael Villanova 14:21, February 17, 2013 (UTC)
 * 2 votes Daembrales (talk) 03:25, February 18, 2013 (UTC)
 * 4 votes Wabba The I (talk) 11:19, February 24, 2013 (UTC)
 * 2 votes. HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 13:59, February 25, 2013 (UTC)

'''AS IT IS NOW THE 1ST OF MARCH, THE SCJ VOTING IS CLOSED. THE NEW SUPREME JUDGES ARE KEVIN MADISON (20 VOTES), ARTHUR ISMAGILOFF (17 VOTES) AND SAMANTHA BROWN (17 VOTES)'''

'''Ministry of Justice. '''

004. Marriage Act: 2013 Rewrite
As a concerned Lovian, I propose to change our Marriage Act in subtle ways to make it more open-minded. Lovians - progressives and conservatives alike - are open-minded people, who care deeply about liberty, but also equality, justice, and harmonious living. I found that the Marriage Act was well-written, but did not account for a few things, and had a few very old-fashioned and liberty-restricting elements.

The rewrite I propose is not a radical overhaul. My own politics are those of radical overhaul, but with this proposal, I just want to bring minor, beneficial change to Lovia. I hope it shows I am serious about politics, and that I care about coalitions, alliances, and goodwill in politics.

The original text can be found in the Federal Law.

Proposed version Marriage Act

 * 1) Marriage is an understanding between two adult people, referred to as parties, who voluntarily agree to take up certain rights and duties.
 * 2) The spouses have the duty to live in harmony with each other, offering each other respect, affection, consolation, and care and treating each other in fairness.
 * 3) The spouses have the duty to communicate with each other and make informal agreements concerning both the personal and professional including work, the household, sex, parenting, and finances, and to verbally resolve any conflicts. Considering the possibility that the spouses cannot come to an agreement on their own terms, it is the duty of both spouses to counsel for advice from a third party.
 * 4) The spouses have the right to retain their autonomy within their marriage including the right to choose and perform the profession of their liking, the right to keep personal finances, and the right to individually see and meet people.
 * 5) The spouses share the responsibility to take care of their children or others in their custody as well as of their possessions and properties.
 * 6) Both spouses share the liability to all expenses made for the benefit of the spouses’ child or children, which can be proven to be essential to the well being of the child.
 * 7) While the spouses have the right to make any informal or formal arrangement as to whom pays what, the law can enforce the shared liability of expenses of the above-described type in the case that conflict arises and the existing arrangement is fundamentally unfair to either or both spouses.
 * 8) Each spouse must bear the marital burdens in accordance to his or her capital and provide the partner with vitals.
 * 9) Marriage can only be solemnized if all of the following conditions are met:
 * 10) Each of the parties is at least 18 years old, or 16 given that the parents or custodians of the less than 18-year-old party fully consent with the marriage;
 * 11) Each of the parties agrees with the marriage on a voluntary basis;
 * 12) None of the parties is already in a standing marriage under Lovian law or under similar law in the country where the marriage was carried out;
 * 13) The parties are not genetically related in the first or second degree ruling out marriages between parents and children, brothers and/or sisters, aunts and/or uncles, and nephews and/or nieces, and cousins.
 * 14) The solemnization of a marriage is carried out in public before a representative of the law.
 * 15) A representative of the law is the Governor of the State in which the marriage is solemnized, a person appointed by that Governor, or any person who is in public service in the federal or state government.
 * 16) No representative of the law may refuse to solemnize a marriage if all the legal conditions are met, unless he or she conscientiously objects to the solemnization, in which case he or she shall report his objections to a Deputy Governor or another representative of the law who must then contact the parties to arrange for solemnization to take place under his or her supervision. The government is legally bound to solemnize any marriage that conforms to the demands set forth by the law.
 * 17) The parties sign a marriage contract at the public solemnization agreeing to the conditions laid out by the law. The representative of the law acts as a witness and validates the contract by signing it as well.
 * 18) A marriage is considered terminated in each one of the following cases:
 * 19) If the marriage is proven to not have been legally solemnized;
 * 20) If one of the spouses obtains a cancellation of the marriage contract;
 * 21) A spouse can cancel a marriage through a lawsuit if he or she proves that the other spouse has neglected his or her duties as a spouse;
 * 22) In this case, the neglecting spouse can be sanctioned to provide financial support to the neglected spouse.
 * 23) In this case, the judge must decide upon an arrangement concerning raising the spouses’ child or children, taking into account the opinions and wishes of both spouses as well as of the children concerned.
 * 24) Unless one of the spouses is considered an immediate threat to the health and security of a child, every person has the right to have regular contact and communication with his or her child.
 * 25) Every arrangement decided upon by a judge must take into account the health, security, and happiness of the child and the spouses’ ability to provide for those.
 * 26) If both spouses agree upon the termination of their marriage, effectively cancelling the marriage contract in the presence of a representative of the law.
 * 27) Upon the death of one of the spouses, or both, but only if the remaining spouse requests the cancellation.
 * 28) One year after one of the spouses has been reported as missing and has not been found, but only if the remaining spouse requests the cancellation.

Proposed changes
In the proposed version, some of the terminology has been changed, either to increase uniformity and clarity, or to reflect a more open-minded spirit. No mention is made of homosexuality, though: our law already allows for same-sex marriage.

The duties and rights of married people change, so that they are no longer obliged to actually live together (it is possible to be married harmoniously and live in separate places) and are no longer legally obliged to be sexually faithful to each other. Instead, extra emphasis is put on the emotional duties of married couples. Also expanded is the section on how to resolve marriage conflicts, including those with children.

The age at which marriage can be solemnized is lowered to 16, given the parents' consent.

The solemnization is simplified. A couple in want of a marriage only needs a representative of the law, more broadly defined now: the governor, someone appointed by him/her, or anyone else representing Lovian government. The "announcement" period is no longer needed.

The law explicitly states that "No representative of the law may refuse to solemnize a marriage if all the legal conditions are met". At the urging of Ooswesthoesbes, a provision is included to allow for conscientious objection by the representative of the law. A simple but efficient procedure is included to arrange for such cases.

Termination of the marriage contract by a single party, through a lawsuit, is rewritten. Provisions are included on what the judge can decide, financially and in the matter of children. The stress is on making harmonious arrangements and looking after the child's interests. A divorce should not be a war, and the child should never be its victim.

Thank you for your consideration. Punarbhava (talk) 17:43, February 17, 2013 (UTC)

Pro

 * 13 votes. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 15:14, March 5, 2013 (UTC) (CCPL - OSB)
 * 2 votes Wabba The I (talk) 17:33, March 5, 2013 (UTC)
 * 6 votes Marcus/Michael Villanova 21:21, March 5, 2013 (UTC) (a bill written by a progressive, supported mostly by a christian conservative. Seems like Pun has found some good fame in Lovia :D great job!!! Marcus/Michael Villanova 21:21, March 5, 2013 (UTC))
 * 8 votes —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 21:56, March 5, 2013 (UTC)
 * 3 votes - It's not that I particularly like the law, but it's a lot better than the old one, so I'm voting pro.--Quarantine Zone (talk) 22:58, March 5, 2013 (UTC)
 * 4 votes 77topaz (talk) 02:37, March 6, 2013 (UTC)
 * 3 votes. Bart K (talk) 08:31, March 6, 2013 (UTC)
 * 7 votes - The first bill of the new government, let's keep on moving! - Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 08:52, March 6, 2013 (UTC)
 * 5 Votes -Sunkist- (talk) 02:40, March 7, 2013 (UTC)
 * 2 votes Daembrales (talk) 18:05, May 19, 2013 (UTC)

Contra

 * 1 vote. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 15:14, March 5, 2013 (UTC) (RTP)
 * 2 votes Wabba The I (talk) 17:33, March 5, 2013 (UTC)
 * 3 votes Flag of the Hurian Federation.png Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 02:41, March 6, 2013 (UTC)

Abstention

 * (4 votes) HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 17:56, March 5, 2013 (UTC)
 * 1 votes. Bart K (talk) 08:31, March 6, 2013 (UTC)

✅ With a 51% majority. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 07:47, March 7, 2013 (UTC)

Comments

 * Thank you, Lovians! Punarbhava (talk) 09:50, March 7, 2013 (UTC)

007. Voting Rights
This since we're adding to the Constitution must have at least 75% 66% a tall, tall order. But I think we have enough general approval for this no? Within it we secure the right to vote for those 18 or Older, and with approval of governors (extending state's rights and devolution) to 16 in statewide elections. We also protect minorities in their right to vote and the right to exercise that right without interference.
 * 1) Any Lovian citizen aged 18 or older may exercise their right to vote in an election.
 * 2) The citizen must file registration for voting with the State Government to be allowed to vote.
 * 3) Registration must be filed at least two weeks before an election is held.
 * 4) A state may set the voting age limit for statewide elections to either the age of 16, 17, or 18, according to the preference of the state.
 * 5) No citizen may be barred from voting on grounds of their gender, sexual orientation, race, personal beliefs, or religious background.
 * 6) Infringement of voting rights is a felony, punishable by a minimum of a 10,000 dollar fine.
 * 7) The Supreme Court may prescribe a greater punishment depending on the severity of the crime.
 * 8) The voting rights of citizens can be removed if they are deemed unfit by way of a Supreme Court order.
 * 9) Electioneering is allowed, but only 30 meters or more away from the location where a voter casts a ballot.
 * 10) Breaking this law once leads to a 1000 dollar fine. Breaking it more than once leads to a minimum prison sentence of three days and a 3000 dollar fine.
 * 11) The Supreme Court may prescribe a greater punishment depending on the severity of the crime.

Pro

 * 6 votes Marcus/Michael Villanova 15:14, March 16, 2013 (UTC)
 * 8 votes on the condition that it is in Article 2. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 15:46, March 16, 2013 (UTC)
 * 13 votes. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 18:05, March 16, 2013 (UTC) (CCPL - OSB): I'd prefer Article 5, but I'm not too bothered about it either.
 * 5 votes. Seems ok. :) --Semyon 18:08, March 16, 2013 (UTC)
 * 8 votes HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 18:22, March 16, 2013 (UTC)
 * 4 votes Wabba The I (talk) 18:55, March 16, 2013 (UTC)
 * Is there anything changed? Wabba The I (talk) 18:55, March 16, 2013 (UTC)
 * 4 votes 77topaz (talk) 19:49, March 16, 2013 (UTC)
 * 3 votes, and I really don't care what Article it's added to. --Quarantine Zone (talk) 17:57, March 17, 2013 (UTC)
 * 9 votes.  Happy65   Talk CNP  LogoCNP.png 19:32, March 17, 2013 (UTC)
 * 7 votes - hey hey hey! I think this is passed :D Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 21:40, March 17, 2013 (UTC)

Contra

 * 1 vote. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 18:05, March 16, 2013 (UTC) RTP: Women should be excluded from voting rights.
 * 5 votes. "The voting rights of citizens can be removed if they are deemed unfit by way of a Supreme Court order." And states should be able to set voting age at any rage, it be under 18 or over 18. -Sunkist- (talk) 21:25, March 16, 2013 (UTC)

Abstain

 * 8 votes My condition was not followed, so I will support the later proposed repeal. The proposal was never passed since I only voted Pro on my condition. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 20:13, March 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * 2 votes - not sure what is going on here so ill follow tm Daembrales (talk) 18:05, May 19, 2013 (UTC)

Withdrawn. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 13:47, May 19, 2013 (UTC)

Comments
(Correction: only 66% for an amendment, not 75%) --Semyon 18:08, March 16, 2013 (UTC)

Wouldn't this go in section 5 though due to its realtion to election matters? The article doesn't matter much to me though Marcus/Michael Villanova 16:22, March 16, 2013 (UTC)

66% thanks semyon for the corrections, also glad to see the voice of far-right conservatism always in play :P (so far 32 votes in favor!) Marcus/Michael Villanova 18:16, March 16, 2013 (UTC)

Your voting contra over personal reasons, sunkist. Dissapointing. Marcus/Michael Villanova 21:32, March 16, 2013 (UTC)

What, I just said why I'm voting against it, I'm against the Supreme Court taking peoples voting rights away and the states inability to set the age limit where they want too. How can you just accuse me like this, what the hell? -Sunkist- (talk) 21:42, March 16, 2013 (UTC)

Yes, I know the supreme court ccan but remember, you'd have to file the case. But it before the court, get it agreed to, then afterwards if there is public dissaproval its accpeted. If there is then obviously Lovia, Democracy, and the Judiciary branch must be corrupt. I think that's aimed at very horrible ciminals or domestic terrorists (civil war) so that if they do go to jail, (in our case) prisoners having the right to vote, you don't. Marcus/Michael Villanova 21:46, March 16, 2013 (UTC)


 * Then sepecify it and also allow states to raise or lower the age limit as they please, don't make them have a cap limit. -Sunkist- (talk) 22:08, March 16, 2013 (UTC)
 * It would make little sense for people to be able to vote in the federal elections but not their state's elections. :P 77topaz (talk) 22:13, March 16, 2013 (UTC)
 * I thank topaz for that totally valid point. On the issue of the courts, you can chage it after this passes to a more progressive liking if you want, i'll support it. The general support is for the universal (almost) age of 18. So we kept that federally. But there is some who want 17 and 16, so im devolving that power to the states just for statewide elections. Marcus/Michael Villanova 22:18, March 16, 2013 (UTC)

Slight problem
For this law to go in effect, we would have to bring back the State Laws. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 08:47, March 17, 2013 (UTC)
 * Should we change it to governor, then? —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 11:53, March 17, 2013 (UTC)
 * Well, such a thing should be in a law. So, it requires state law :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 12:01, March 17, 2013 (UTC)
 * @Oos - You've seen through my master plan of proposing a law which would eventually rile up state's rights advocates like you into starting a fight for devolution. LOL no but i'm 1000% behind state law, let's get on it!!! Marcus/Michael Villanova 12:58, March 17, 2013 (UTC)

Libertas becoming a full member of the IWO
Libertas will officialy become a member of the International Wikination Organisation. Wabba The I (talk) 18:08, March 21, 2013 (UTC)

Pro

 * 4 votes - Wabba The I (talk) 18:10, March 21, 2013 (UTC)
 * 14 votes. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 19:11, March 21, 2013 (UTC) (CCPL - OSB - RTP)
 * 6 votes (first wikination) Marcus/Michael Villanova 20:48, March 21, 2013 (UTC)
 * 8 votes —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 22:24, March 21, 2013 (UTC)
 * --Quarantine Zone (talk) 01:12, March 22, 2013 (UTC)
 * 8 votes. HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 13:13, March 22, 2013 (UTC)
 * 5 votes -Sunkist- (talk) 16:37, March 26, 2013 (UTC)
 * 5 votes --Semyon 20:28, April 16, 2013 (UTC)
 * 2 votes Daembrales (talk) 18:05, May 19, 2013 (UTC)

Abstain

 * 4 votes 77topaz (talk) 02:50, March 22, 2013 (UTC)
 * 3 votes Flag of the Hurian Federation.png Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 02:18, March 23, 2013 (UTC)

Comments
✅ By a 51% majority at minimum (QZ did not specify # of votes). —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 01:12, April 17, 2013 (UTC)
 * I don't feel I can vote on this until I have a link to the wikination in question. Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 20:47, April 16, 2013 (UTC)
 * Come on, you've never heard of Libertas? HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 20:48, April 16, 2013 (UTC)
 * (edc) Here you go. I'm surprised you weren't familiar with it already tbh. --Semyon 20:51, April 16, 2013 (UTC)
 * It would seem my vote was not needed anyways. Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 06:27, April 17, 2013 (UTC)


 * Thanks everyone! Wabba The I (talk) 11:13, April 17, 2013 (UTC)

009. Repeal of Twelfth Amendment
I request that the Twelfth Amendment be repealed, and be replaced with the text below. Wikipedia defines a constitution as 'a set of fundamental principles or established precedents according to which a state or other organization is governed.' While parts of the Amendment fit this definition, such as minimum age requirements, or anti-discrimination clauses, because they are 'fundamental principles' which Lovia is governed by, others don't. For example, it's not within the remit of a constitution to decide that electioneering as acceptable 30.1 meters away from a ballot station, but not 29.9 meters away. I think this was why there was so much uncertainty about which article to put the law into - it's because actually it shouldn't be in any of them.

An extra part of Article 2 of the constitution (in bold):


 * 1) Every human being and citizen has the right:
 * 2) Of freedom of thought, meaning and religion.
 * 3) Of equality, by race, religion, political opinion, language, sex, property, birth or other statuses.
 * 4) Of privacy.
 * 5) To have personal or common property.
 * 6) To be arrested in a trial and to be treated correctly.
 * 7) To have a residence.
 * 8) To work and to receive education.
 * 9) To relax and recreate.
 * 10) To live in peace with his or her fellow-men.
 * 11) To live in welfare.
 * 12) To become a Lovian citizen.
 * 13) Every Lovian citizen has the right:
 * 14) To have a number of residences in Lovia, but no more than three.
 * 15) Every Lovian citizen above the minimum age requirement has the right:
 * 16) To vote in federal and state elections.
 * 17) The minimum age requirement is set at:
 * 18) Eighteen years, for the federal elections.
 * 19) Either sixteen, seventeen or eighteen years, for the state elections, at the discretion of the government of the respective state.
 * 20) No citizen may be barred from voting on grounds of their gender, sexual orientation, race, personal beliefs, or religious background.

An new federal law, to be entitled the Elections Regulation Act:


 * 1) Any citizen wishing to exercise their constitutional right to vote must file registration for voting with the State Government.
 * 2) Registration must be filed at least two weeks before an election is held.
 * 3) Proven violation of Article 2.3.1.2. of the Constitution is a felony, punishable by a minimum of a 10,000 dollar fine.
 * 4) The Supreme Court may prescribe a greater punishment depending on the severity of the crime.
 * 5) The voting rights of citizens can be removed by way of a Supreme Court order if they are deemed unfit to exercise those rights.
 * 6) Electioneering is allowed, but only 30 meters or more away from the location where a voter casts a ballot.
 * 7) Breaking this law once leads to a 1000 dollar fine. Breaking it more than once leads to a minimum prison sentence of three days and a 3000 dollar fine.
 * 8) The Supreme Court may prescribe a greater punishment depending on the severity of the crime.

Pro

 * 5 votes. --Semyon 17:03, March 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * 8 votes -- Repeal is not necessary, however, since I voted pro on a condition, and my condition was not followed, and thus the necessary support was not reached. This should be treated as the revised Twelfth Amendment, the original of which never passed. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 20:15, March 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * The same argument did occur to me, but I wondered if it was somewhat specious. :P --Semyon 20:42, March 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * 6 votes (good compromise) Marcus/Michael Villanova 21:08, March 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * Glad you think so. :) --Semyon 21:11, March 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * 4 votes. The other clauses should be added to the Federal Law separately. 77topaz (talk) 02:37, March 26, 2013 (UTC)
 * 3 votes - Sounds good on paper. So I'm incline to believe it will work well in act. Flag of the Hurian Federation.png Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 02:53, March 26, 2013 (UTC)
 * 14 votes. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 08:51, March 26, 2013 (UTC)
 * 8 votes HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 12:40, March 26, 2013 (UTC)
 * 4 votes Wabba The I (talk) 13:45, March 26, 2013 (UTC)
 * 7 votes again well for such a reform - Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 16:38, March 26, 2013 (UTC)
 * 2 votes Daembrales (talk) 18:05, May 19, 2013 (UTC)
 * 3 votes. Isn't most of this in Article 8 of the constitution? --Quarantine Zone (talk) 22:12, June 11, 2013 (UTC)
 * 4 votes. Bart K (talk) 12:36, June 14, 2013 (UTC)

Contra

 * 5 votes, I still believe that states should be able to place age limits on their elections at any age they want, or keep it at 18. ---Sunkist- (talk) 08:36, April 13, 2013 (UTC)
 * I understand that, but I don't think that age limits should ever go below 16. I think that allowing states to set their own limits is remarkably devolutionist in itself. :) --Semyon 21:45, April 20, 2013 (UTC)

Abstain


Well, the ERA is now passed, but the Constitution part isn't. :/ I'll add ERA. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 13:47, May 19, 2013 (UTC)

✅ By a 68% majority. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 13:45, June 14, 2013 (UTC)

010. One millionth State Reform
Okay, I think it's good enough. We need a special majority: State Law and State Council. As there does not seem to be enough support for State Courts, I propose to keep it in the freezer and maybe vote seperately on that later on.

Pro

 * 14 votes. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 11:19, April 6, 2013 (UTC) (CCPL - OSB - RTP)
 * 6 Votes Marcus/Michael Villanova 11:30, April 6, 2013 (UTC) (about damn time)
 * (5 votes :P) --Semyon 13:27, April 6, 2013 (UTC)
 * 3 votes. --Quarantine Zone (talk) 01:17, April 8, 2013 (UTC)
 * 4 votes Wabba The I (talk) 18:37, April 8, 2013 (UTC)
 * 5 votes. Why not? -Sunkist- (talk) 08:34, April 13, 2013 (UTC)
 * 7 votes Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 11:20, April 20, 2013 (UTC)
 * 4 votes Bart K (talk) 09:09, June 8, 2013 (UTC)

Abstain

 * 8 votes - Elections for the state council are too complex. I think it's too much. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 14:35, April 6, 2013 (UTC)
 * 8 votes. Same as Time here. HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 13:01, April 17, 2013 (UTC)
 * 2 votes Daembrales (talk) 18:05, May 19, 2013 (UTC)

Expired. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 13:47, May 19, 2013 (UTC)

Comments
Couldn't this be a 12th state reform :D Marcus/Michael Villanova 12:55, April 6, 2013 (UTC)
 * Well, it's the twelfth amendment if accepted, but not the twelfth state reform :P I think it's the fourth :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 12:57, April 6, 2013 (UTC)
 * True my mistake :P Marcus/Michael Villanova 13:06, April 6, 2013 (UTC)
 * Actually, it's the third real state reform if we don't count the one when Dimitri wanted to stress Lovia as a federal state :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 13:09, April 6, 2013 (UTC)
 * How many votes pro semyon! XD lol Marcus/Michael Villanova 13:32, April 6, 2013 (UTC)


 * I understand 3.4.2 good but what is it now? Oceana has what age and Kings has what age and ... ? Wabba The I (talk) 18:37, April 8, 2013 (UTC)
 * What do you mean? About, voting age? It varies about state elections is all not that major. Marcus/Michael Villanova 21:32, April 8, 2013 (UTC)
 * @Wabba: the voting age will be set in the State Law. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 03:12, April 9, 2013 (UTC)

Let me stress the direct need of State Laws, or the law above this one will be illegal (no state laws, no setting of voting age per state). So I urge all the people blocking this to bring forth better ideas or change their vote to. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 10:20, April 20, 2013 (UTC)
 * And anyway, actually, apart from states with more than three candidates running, nothing changes. There is nothing that's more complex... --O u WTBsjrief-mich 10:32, April 20, 2013 (UTC)
 * I don't think it is prohibited to set a state voting age. State Laws might be illegal, but this is just a decree. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 11:25, April 20, 2013 (UTC)
 * A voting age should be placed in a legal document. Currently, states - read the constitution - do not have the right to create legal documents. And as I said, practically, nothing changes, apart from the new State Laws and the fact that a user will represent f.e. 15 people instead of 1... --O u WTBsjrief-mich 11:37, April 20, 2013 (UTC)
 * I don't even think It will be that much though, this law is designed to say, If your interest and want to mae changes to your state you should have the choice not just one man with near dictorial authority only bound to by the federal law. I think even after this, a clause to say you can run and be able to  participate in two states whould be better because if you have the interest to change your state you should be able to. This way, even while a good half of users are semi inactive we will have at least two to four users trying to vote and change states. Obviously I think users like Semyon and Oos, in there respecctive states, will hold near majorities in there states because of there interest and now the use of the '3-2-1' voting system in state elections. For myself? I would love to rune in Clymene and Sylvania, I love both of these states, hell I would even love to do it in all give, but I understand that that isnt practical but what would be better is two so people can have invested interest in the state they do love. And plus theres an inactivity part within this bill, s o if soo many new users get elected, and fail to participate, new elections are held, and i'm guess the actives user's share of the vote will be greatly increased. Marcus/Michael Villanova 12:13, April 20, 2013 (UTC)

On second thought, your entire argument is invalid, as most states have already implemented state councils... The only thing that'll change is that they get State Laws (so some real legislation). --O u WTBsjrief-mich 07:01, April 21, 2013 (UTC)

My argument? Anyway I think this vote has failed. so if thats the case It's just one step closer to the LP abstaining from congress, its getting old. Marcus/Michael Villanova 20:55, May 18, 2013 (UTC)
 * No, TM's argument that it would make everything more difficult. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 03:21, May 21, 2013 (UTC)

011. Repeal Green Energy Act
It's silly. --Semyon 16:17, April 20, 2013 (UTC)

Pro

 * 5 votes. --Semyon 16:17, April 20, 2013 (UTC)
 * 5 votes. -Sunkist- (talk) 16:18, April 20, 2013 (UTC)
 * 7 votes Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 16:19, April 20, 2013 (UTC)
 * 6 votes Marcus/Michael Villanova 16:57, April 20, 2013 (UTC) (I prolly even voted for this, but it's empty language and not even enforced)

Abstain

 * 4 votes (The "premise" of the act is good, but it seems to have been ignored) 77topaz (talk) 21:02, April 20, 2013 (UTC)
 * We who started this, (Sunkist, Semyon and me) want to repeal this and replace it with a new Green Energy act that is properly written and can actually help us progress as a nation towards green energy. A pro would help us to get this moving. Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 21:27, April 20, 2013 (UTC)
 * I say get the act written first. :P —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 22:00, April 20, 2013 (UTC)
 * I agree with TM. First write a new one, cuz then we'd only need one change in the law instead of two. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 06:57, April 21, 2013 (UTC)


 * 4 votes - On the grounds that I'd much rather see what the other party has to offer before I make any decisions on the matter. Flag of the Hurian Federation.png Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 22:36, April 20, 2013 (UTC)
 * 2 votes Daembrales (talk) 18:05, May 19, 2013 (UTC)

Expired. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 13:47, May 19, 2013 (UTC)

012. Approval of the Headlands Cross State Line
The construction of the "Headlands Cross State Line" will take place.
 * Costs - $70,500,000
 * Labour - 1 average worker @ ~$60,000 - ~500 workers - $30,000,000
 * Resources - 1km of rail @ ~$500,000 - ~81km of rail - $40,500,000

Pro

 * 6 votes Marcus/Michael Villanova 14:24, May 18, 2013 (UTC)
 * 7 votes Surprised it took so long to get here. Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 14:35, May 18, 2013 (UTC)
 * 4 votes Flag of the Hurian Federation.png Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 21:15, May 18, 2013 (UTC)
 * 4 votes. 77topaz (talk) 23:53, May 18, 2013 (UTC)
 * 5 -Sunkist- (talk) 01:54, May 19, 2013 (UTC)
 * 8 votes —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 04:08, May 19, 2013 (UTC)
 * 4 votes Wabba The I (talk) 08:28, May 19, 2013 (UTC)
 * 2 votes Daembrales (talk) 18:05, May 19, 2013 (UTC)
 * 8 votes HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 14:04, May 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * 14 votes. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 15:42, May 26, 2013 (UTC)
 * 4 votes Bart K (talk) 09:09, June 8, 2013 (UTC)

Abstain

 * 14 votes. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 14:33, May 18, 2013 (UTC) I keep to my point that I'll only approve this if a railway between East Hills and Hurb is constructed as well.


 * Can that not be done in another vote? Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 14:35, May 18, 2013 (UTC)
 * Not separately :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 16:09, May 18, 2013 (UTC)
 * @oos - if the people who support this in princple of railroad contrustion and jobs they'd prolly support it too so vote pro! Marcus/Michael Villanova 16:13, May 18, 2013 (UTC)
 * Where are stations or stops? Wabba The I (talk) 16:18, May 18, 2013 (UTC)
 * (clarified) Agree with Wabba, and also, is this the same thing that we had discussed in chat a couple months ago to extend one line and make the unextended part a double line? —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 16:46, May 18, 2013 (UTC)
 * @wabba? Are you serious? Usually it'll be decided by the train company that wants to use it and will be done along the way. the last one that was agreed too, in which YOU were apart of. Marcus/Michael Villanova 18:36, May 18, 2013 (UTC)
 * @wabba? Are you serious? Usually it'll be decided by the train company that wants to use it and will be done along the way. the last one that was agreed too, in which YOU were apart of. Marcus/Michael Villanova 18:36, May 18, 2013 (UTC)


 * @Wabba - Stops are in Charleston, Train Village and Noble City. @Time - yes that exact one. Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 19:46, May 18, 2013 (UTC)


 * We already have the Peace Island Railway and the Trans Sylvanian Railway which both stops in Clave Rock so why a new one? But you are rights. Charleston needs a station too. But I think it is better to smelt them into one (Trans Sylvanian and this proposal) with stops in Noble City, Train Village, Charleston and Clave Rock? But you are the Governor and Deputy Governor. Wabba The I (talk) 20:18, May 18, 2013 (UTC)
 * Thing is Wabba, Noble City, Train Village and Clave Rock are all connected to the railway system. Clave Rock, which has less population than Charleston, is connected and Charleston isn't. This plan would connect it and because of the increased traffic that would be faced (transportation of both people and cargo) it also expands the tracks to Noble City, this increase in capacity will bolster our economy. Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 21:10, May 18, 2013 (UTC)


 * I think 400 workers is good enough for both (not together). Wabba The I (talk) 14:44, May 21, 2013 (UTC)

✅ With a 62% majority. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 16:08, May 26, 2013 (UTC)

013. Approval of the Emerald Railway
Renovation of the Emerald Railway.
 * Costs - $100,000,000
 * Stops: Hurbanova Shkola Hurbanovni (to be constructed on the current line Hurbanova - NC), East Hills

Pro

 * 14 votes. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 07:43, May 19, 2013 (UTC) If more than 25+ votes here, I'll switch my vote above :P
 * There are 35 votes pro already. :P 77topaz (talk) 05:05, May 20, 2013 (UTC)
 * 4 votes Wabba The I (talk) 08:28, May 19, 2013 (UTC) East Hills need a station.
 * 8 votes. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 13:47, May 19, 2013 (UTC)
 * 7 votes - I can support this, however we really need to add the cost of these projects to the budget. Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 13:59, May 19, 2013 (UTC)
 * 2 votes Daembrales (talk) 18:05, May 19, 2013 (UTC)
 * 5 votes ---Sunkist- (talk) 03:23, May 21, 2013 (UTC)
 * 8 votes HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 14:03, May 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * 4 votes. (This has 52 votes now, I think) 77topaz (talk) 19:57, May 26, 2013 (UTC)
 * 6 votes (fasionably late ;P) Marcus/Michael Villanova 01:12, May 27, 2013 (UTC)
 * 4 votes Bart K (talk) 09:09, June 8, 2013 (UTC)

Contra

 * (btw i never abstain, don't see the point of it) 6 votes, needs discussion in some form in the first chamber like our railway did. No petty politics please. Marcus/Michael Villanova 11:55, May 19, 2013 (UTC)


 * If you had read all the links I have given you earlier on, you would've known it is entirely worked out. Better than your proposal :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 12:38, May 19, 2013 (UTC)
 * What links? we never even debated this. Marcus/Michael Villanova 13:25, May 19, 2013 (UTC)
 * In a slightly different model which also connects East Hills to Clave Rock, f.e.: --O u WTBsjrief-mich 08:07, May 20, 2013 (UTC)
 * In a slightly different model which also connects East Hills to Clave Rock, f.e.: --O u WTBsjrief-mich 08:07, May 20, 2013 (UTC)

Abstain


✅ With a 52% majority. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 23:39, May 26, 2013 (UTC)

Comments

 * Do we really need such a large budget. Both railway projects costs too much. Yes tracks are expensive but do we really need 500 workers? Do we really need to pay them all $60,000? Wabba The I (talk) 19:17, May 19, 2013 (UTC)
 * Well, it's a project that will take more than a year to construct, so we'd have to give the workers a year worth of salary. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 03:20, May 21, 2013 (UTC)
 * The land in Sylvania the route the track will be laid is quite flat, with lots of workers piling on forwards, it won't be much longer than 1 year. Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 09:01, May 21, 2013 (UTC)
 * Well, the land in Oceana is quite rocky and not flat :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 09:27, May 22, 2013 (UTC)
 * Yes but the route it will be built along is quite flat because there was once a train track there (even with disrepair and damage it won't be too difficult to refurbish things). Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 10:34, May 22, 2013 (UTC)
 * True, but you seem to miss out two things: 1. It will be a double-track, so the current route will have to be broadened. 2. We need to build a new railroad bridge over the Hurbanova Stream :) --O u WTBsjrief-mich 04:07, May 25, 2013 (UTC)

014. Referendum Act

 * 1) All registered Lovian citizens, aged 18 or over, may vote in any nation-wide referendum ordered by Congress.
 * 2) A referendum taking place is semi-binding to what the majority of the voters on the proposal indicated as their preference.
 * 3) Each referendum should contain two options that can be voted on by any voter.
 * 4) The option that receives the simple majority of the vote or more will become the option acted upon by Congress and the Federal Government, making appropriate changes.
 * 5) For a referendum to become semi-binding, an option must receive at least a simple majority of the votes.
 * 6) If no option is able to receive a simple majority of the vote after the first vote, the least popular option will be dropped and another vote held at a later date to settle the issue. This must occur repeatedly until an option receives a simple majority of the vote.
 * 7) The first round of voting takes place in Forum:Referendum and has a legal duration of at least one week, and two weeks at most.
 * 8) If a second round of voting is needed, it too takes place in Forum:Referendum and has a legal duration of at least one week, and two weeks at most.
 * 9) Voter turnout, the total amount of correctly casted ballots, must be at least one third of the total franchise for a referendum's result to be semi-binding.
 * 10) A referendum can only be issued by the Lovian Congress, following a simple majority in favor of any proposal to hold one.
 * 11) All referendums passed by Congress and their recorded results are added to a list of "Approved Referendums".

Pro

 * 14 votes. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 07:45, May 19, 2013 (UTC)
 * 6 votes (Yes! Now we can have that referendum :D) Marcus/Michael Villanova 12:00, May 19, 2013 (UTC)
 * 7 votes - I'd prefer if they were fully binding but it still works. Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 12:20, May 19, 2013 (UTC)
 * 8 votes. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 13:47, May 19, 2013 (UTC)
 * Also, we need to define semi-binding. That never got added. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 13:59, May 19, 2013 (UTC)
 * 2 votes, we are going to have a referendum on the monarchy? Daembrales (talk) 18:05, May 19, 2013 (UTC)
 * 5 votes ---Sunkist- (talk) 18:08, May 19, 2013 (UTC)
 * 4 votes. 77topaz (talk) 05:02, May 20, 2013 (UTC)
 * 4 votes Flag of the Hurian Federation.png Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 03:16, May 21, 2013 (UTC)
 * 8 votes. HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 13:59, May 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * 4 votes Bart K (talk) 09:09, June 8, 2013 (UTC)

Abstain


✅ With a 58% majority. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 14:50, May 25, 2013 (UTC)

Comments
We should a binding referendum section too? I think we should propose a referenudm on state and local councils as well ^_^ Marcus/Michael Villanova 18:59, May 19, 2013 (UTC)
 * Not a good idea. I'm contra binding referenda in the law. Any way, we as Congress ultimately should keep the power. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 11:10, May 22, 2013 (UTC)
 * We should also provide a mechanism to ensure congress largely follows the voice of the people, instead of voting NO or YES despite a majority of Lovians wanting the opposite. HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 14:01, May 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * We should not :P We've got elections to pay off any wrongs. If the people are not satisfied with the way Congress works, they'll vote them away. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 08:30, May 27, 2013 (UTC)

015. Revision of OWTBs State Reform: no state councils
As I believe it to be in the direct need of the states to regain legislative powers, I will add a reform with just the reconfiguration of the state laws (source:, changes are fat).

Article 4 – The structure of Lovia
 * 1) The Kingdom of Lovia is governed on different levels:
 * 2) The federal level encompasses the entire Lovian territory.
 * 3) The executive power of the federal level inheres to the Government of Lovia. This government consists of the Prime Minister and the ministers of the federal government, and has control over government ministries, government institutions and civil services.
 * 4) The Prime Minister and other ministers are Members of the Congress; however, the heads of government institutions and civil services do not need to be Members of the Congress.
 * 5) All legislative power inheres to the Lovian Congress. This parliamentary body consists of the Members of the Congress, who are either democratically elected by the citizens of Lovia or who are Member by Right (the ruling monarch). Congress may, as the sole body in the nation, write and amend legal matters in the Federal Law and the Constitution.
 * 6) All judicial power inheres to the Supreme Court of Lovia.
 * 7) The state level consists of five states with limited powers: Clymene, Kings, Oceana, Seven and Sylvania.
 * 8) The executive power of the federal level inheres to the Governor of each state, both democratically elected by the citizens of each state.
 * 9) The local level, consisting of cities and towns, and the sublocal level, consisting of neighborhoods and hamlets, are governed by the state authorities.

Article 5 – Legislature and executive power
 * 1) In general, the competencies of the state level are limited to local government that does not interfere with federal law and government. The following competencies belong to the state level:
 * 2) The naming, organizing and maintaining of urban parks, public places, streets, markets, roads (with the exclusion of highways), waterways, natural areas and environmentally significant places that are not protected by the federal government, culturally significant monuments that are not protected by the federal government.
 * 3) Informing the state population about the various aspects of the state, the federal government and its policies.
 * 4) The construction and planning of neighborhoods and hamlets.
 * 5) The Governor may decide on the construction, destruction, re-organization of neighborhoods and hamlets in that specific state.
 * 6) The Lovian Congress may overrule the Governor's decision by a normal majority. From the moment a bill to overrule that decision has been proposed to Congress, the Governor cannot proceed with the construction, destruction or re-organization. If the decision is in effect overruled by Congress, the Governor may not construct, destroy or re-organize neighborhoods and hamlets for one month, to protect the state and its inhabitants from whimsical construction plans.
 * 7) Bringing the people of Lovia and the different levels and branches of government closer to one another.
 * 8) Advising the Lovian Congress on issues related to the particular state.
 * 9) Advising federal institutions in relation to protected natural regions and culturally significant locations and monuments in the particular state.
 * 10) Creating and managing state agencies and corporations which have the sole function and duty to perform the tasks the state government is entitled to perform, including but not exclusively maintaining roads and waterways and protecting cultural and natural heritage.
 * 11) Such agencies and corporations are not entitled to engage in other economic activities.
 * 12) The number of such agencies and corporations within one state may not exceed five, allowing states to run a cultural heritage agency, a natural protection agency, a public works corporation, an urban planning agency, and other possible such agencies or corporations.
 * 13) All competencies not covered by the states inhere to the federal level.
 * 14) When a state is in conflict with the federal level or with another state, in relation to their legal competencies, any of the involved parties may consult the Supreme Court.
 * 15) The Supreme Court Judge must in turn consult the laws of Lovia and must interpret these justly and with respect to the well-being of the Lovians.
 * 16) The Supreme Court Judge must then decide to which of the involved parties the competency of conflict inheres.
 * 17) The Supreme Court Judge may also find the matter inconclusive. He or she may then require the Congress to amend the Constitution. Such a requirement is binding and obligatory.

Article 6 – Amending the Federal Law and State Law
 * 1) A motion to amend the Federal Law can be:
 * 2) * A proposal for a new article in the Federal Law;
 * 3) * A proposal to amend a section of the Federal Law;
 * 4) * A proposal to remove a section of the Federal Law.
 * 5) The required steps to propose a motion to the Federal Law in Congress:
 * 6) All Lovian citizens may write and propose motions to the Federal Law.
 * 7) Motions are presented to the Members of the Congress in the First Chamber.
 * 8) All Members of the Congress are expected to read the motion and form a personal opinion about it. In order to obtain the support of a majority of Members of the Congress, changes may be proposed in the First Chamber.
 * 9) If the proposing Member of the Congress expects that the majority of Congress is in favor of the motion, he or she may move it to the Second Chamber.
 * 10) All Members of the Congress are expected to vote on the motion in the Second Chamber.
 * 11) There are three valid voting options: pro (in favor of the motion), contra (in opposition to the motion) and abstention (the wish not to vote).
 * 12) A normal majority is required to pass a motion. A normal majority is described as more than fifty percent of the valid votes.
 * 13) All Members of the Congress have two weeks’ time to cast their vote in the Second Chamber. Voting may be closed earlier if the required majority is reached. The proposer may also choose to lengthen the voting period.
 * 14) When the motion is accepted by Congress, it must be implemented. The Minister of Justice, the Prime Minister and the ruling monarch are enprivileged to enshrine passed motions in the law, although all Members of the Congress may do it, if done correctly.
 * 15) When the motion is not accepted, either because the majority opposed it or because no majority was found in favor of the motion, it shall be removed from the Second Chamber. Any citizen and Member of the Congress has the right to propose an altered version for reconsideration in the First Chamber.
 * 16) A motion that is not intended to be enshrined in the Federal Law, but that does need Congressial approval, is proposed and voted in the same way.
 * 17) For each motion that has been moved to the Second Chamber by Congress, and that is in due time either approved, rejected or proven unable to gain the required support, Congress must keep a record, starting February 1st of the year 2011, which will be known as the Congressional Journal.
 * 18) A motion to amend the State Law can be:
 * 19) * A proposal for a new article in the State Law;
 * 20) * A proposal to amend a section of the State Law;
 * 21) * A proposal to remove a section of the State Law.
 * 22) The required steps to propose a motion to the State Law:
 * 23) All Lovian citizens that reside in the concerning State may write and propose motions to the State Law.
 * 24) Motions are presented to the respective State's Governor.
 * 25) The Governor is expected to read the motion and form a personal opinion about it. In order to obtain the support of the Governor, changes may be proposed.
 * 26) The Governor has two weeks time to either accept or decline a proposal.
 * 27) When the motion is accepted by the Governor, it must be implemented. The Governor and the Deputy Governor are enprivileged to enshrine passed motions in the law, although all citizens of the respective State may do that, if done correctly.
 * 28) When the motion is not accepted, either because the Governor opposed it or because the two weeks consideration time expired, it shall not be implemented.
 * 29) Any citizen has the right to propose an altered version for reconsideration to the Governor.
 * 30) A motion that is not intended to be enshrined in the State Law, but that does need Governor's approval, is proposed and managed in the same way.
 * 31) The Lovian Congress reserves the right to block additions and amendments to the State Law by a normal majority, if the motion is deemed contradictive, unconstitutional or illegal.
 * 32) It is legal for States to create a State Council with the State's own choice of election system and system of running. However, the Governor has the final say over the workings of the State, behind the Federal Congress.

Pro

 * 4 votes Bart K (talk) 09:31, June 8, 2013 (UTC)
 * 14 votes. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 09:46, June 8, 2013 (UTC) I'd still prefer the other version, but we need this. The states are practically dead now...
 * 4 votes Wabba The I (talk) 21:09, June 8, 2013 (UTC)
 * 7 votes - Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 10:40, June 8, 2013 (UTC)
 * 8 votes I deleted obsolete 5.1.3.1.2, by the way. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 13:43, June 8, 2013 (UTC)
 * 6 votes Marcus/Michael Villanova 13:53, June 8, 2013 (UTC)
 * 4 votes I see nothing wrong with this. Flag of the Hurian Federation.png Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 01:24, June 9, 2013 (UTC)
 * 8 votes. HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 13:45, June 10, 2013 (UTC)
 * 3 Votes --Quarantine Zone (talk) 15:24, June 10, 2013 (UTC)
 * 4 votes. I think this would be the best current option for state laws. 77topaz (talk) 08:12, June 11, 2013 (UTC)
 * 5 votes. --Semyon 15:52, June 11, 2013 (UTC)
 * 2 votes Daembrales (talk) 17:52, June 11, 2013 (UTC) hooray for state law!

Abstain

 * 1 vote Wabba The I (talk) 10:23, June 8, 2013 (UTC) What do you mean with article 6: 2.5.3 the last part: "the proposer may also choose to lengthen the voting period"?


 * That's a part which already exists in the current law: it means that if a majority has not yet been reached within two weeks (because of some temporarily inactive politicians), but chances are high it will be accepted, the proposer may choose to add another week of voting. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 10:30, June 8, 2013 (UTC)
 * That's a part which already exists in the current law: it means that if a majority has not yet been reached within two weeks (because of some temporarily inactive politicians), but chances are high it will be accepted, the proposer may choose to add another week of voting. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 10:30, June 8, 2013 (UTC)

Comments
I propose to add this line: It is legal for states to create a state council with the state's own choice of election system and system of running. However, the Governor has the final say over the workings of the state, behind the federal Congress. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 13:47, June 8, 2013 (UTC)
 * It doesn't really add anything, cause it's not illegal without the line being in the law. But if you think it's really necessary, we'll add it :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 08:30, June 9, 2013 (UTC)
 * It's not really necessary, it'd just be nice. :P —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 12:50, June 9, 2013 (UTC)
 * Okay, if anyone objects to this, just change your vote . --O u WTBsjrief-mich 08:45, June 10, 2013 (UTC) that'd be clear enough I'd say :P

A quick calculation: 58 out of 67 > 9 to go :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 17:23, June 10, 2013 (UTC)

Oh, and if you're some of those nine votes, please also vote pro on the election amendment farther up the page. x) —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 18:19, June 10, 2013 (UTC)

I never understood though why we don't do it out of percentage of votes casted. I mean within a two week period obviously people will vote pro or contra, and it will be seen, so why not just count those who want it passed or not passed. Marcus/Michael Villanova 18:26, June 10, 2013 (UTC)

Because if two out of three total voters (of one hundred MOTCs) voted, it shouldn't pass. :P —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 18:27, June 10, 2013 (UTC)

yeah but thats why each law must have two weeks of minimal voting. So within that two week period if another memebr sees it and votes contra then it doesn't pass :P Marcus/Michael Villanova 18:29, June 10, 2013 (UTC)

5 to go :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 11:20, June 11, 2013 (UTC)

✅ --Semyon 15:53, June 11, 2013 (UTC)

WE HAVE STATE COUNCILS  depending on the state and laws which will take time Marcus/Michael Villanova 15:59, June 11, 2013 (UTC)

016. Weapons and Safety Act

 * 1) Concealed weapons licenses must be obtained in order to conceal any fire arms from others while in public.
 * 2) All owners must be at least 24 years of age.
 * 3) Ballistic knives and sheath knives are not considered fire arms.
 * 4) All automatic weapons are illegal, except in the case of an official government military, militia, or police.
 * 5) Switchblade knives are illegal to manufacture, trade, sell, and buy, but legal to own for historical purposes.
 * 6) Bayonets are illegal to manufacture, trade, sell, and buy, but legal to own for historical purposes.
 * 7) Bullets containing poison, toxins, and explosives are illegal to manufacture, trade, buy, sell, and own, except in the case of an official government military, militia, or police.
 * 8) In the case of an official government military, militia, or police, soft chemical explosives are legal.
 * 9) This includes chemicals similar to the following: Capsaicin (pepper spray), phenacyl chloride (mace), sleeping gas, tear gas, or chemicals in stun grenades.
 * 10) Sleeping gas is any chemical containing halothane vapour (Fluothane), methyl propyl ether (Neothyl), methoxyflurane (Penthrane), 3-Quinuclidinyl benzilate or fentanyl.
 * 11) Tear gas is any chemical containing chlorobenzalmalononitrile, dibenzoxazepine, nonivamide, bromoacetone, xylyl bromide, or synpropanethial-S-oxide.
 * 12) Stun grenades are any explosive containing pyrotechnic metal-oxidant mixes of magnesium or aluminum, ammonium perchlorate, or potassium perchlorate.
 * 13) Newly manufactured items that have a similar look or use to firearms are required to have orange tips to signify that they are not legally firearms.
 * 14) This includes but is not limited to water guns, airsoft guns, paintball guns, pellet guns, BB guns, and model guns.
 * 15) Bows and crossbows are considered weapons fit for hunting.

Pro

 * 3 Votes --Quarantine Zone (talk) 21:23, June 14, 2013 (UTC)
 * 6 votes Marcus/Michael Villanova 22:21, June 14, 2013 (UTC)
 * 14 votes. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 08:55, June 15, 2013 (UTC) (though I agree that the last line is rather useless)

Abstain

 * 4 votes - Only on the grounds that I find the ban on certain weapons to be a bit too overreaching. Like maybe my guy wants a fully automatic rifle. However, on the grounds of protecting citizens and not being a gun nut, I agree with the billion. Since I'm split on the matter, I abstain. Flag of the Hurian Federation.png Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 02:29, June 15, 2013 (UTC)
 * Why the * would you need an automatic rifle for self-protection? A normal gun is more than enough and if won't cause as much collateral damage :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 08:55, June 15, 2013 (UTC)
 * 8 votes - Argh, I still think this might be mergeable with the Firearms Act. The last line is kind of meaningless, also. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 03:25, June 15, 2013 (UTC)
 * 4 votes. Yeah, this should probably be reworked, indeed. 77topaz (talk) 04:33, June 15, 2013 (UTC)
 * 7 votes there are bits overly picky and far too specific, I also think that a change like this needs to be a complete rethink of the firearms act and more. Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 09:57, June 15, 2013 (UTC)

017. No confidence
With the passing of this motion, Congress withdraws its support for the Ilava II Government and calls for immediate federal elections.

Pro

 * 5 votes. --Semyon 11:38, June 15, 2013 (UTC)
 * 6 votes Marcus/Michael Villanova 12:28, June 15, 2013 (UTC)
 * 7 votes - I still support the Ilava government in many ways but the way that certain parties now hold power they shouldn't is something I am firmly against. Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 13:00, June 15, 2013 (UTC)
 * 3 Votes. --Quarantine Zone (talk) 19:07, June 15, 2013 (UTC)

Contra

 * 8 votes - Btw, I thought we were trying to keep the numbers (017. etc.) first & second chamber proposals synchronized? —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 15:28, June 15, 2013 (UTC)
 * 8 votes (might move to abstain). New elections are unnecessary as our congress is active and works well. HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 17:00, June 15, 2013 (UTC)
 * 4 votes. As per Horton11. 77topaz (talk) 02:28, June 16, 2013 (UTC)

Abstention

 * 14 votes. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 11:55, June 15, 2013 (UTC) I haven't decided yet

Comments
We have inactive people, so what happens if of all total votes cast, there is a majority Pro? There's also a mismatch between motions of confidence (the first proposal that selects the government at the top of this page) and motions of no confidence: a contra for a confidence is a pro for a no confidence and vice versa. But what's an abstention? Should the government be required to maintain confidence, so we'd need a 50% vote Contra to block this proposal? I don't even know; I'll check the Constitution. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 15:40, June 15, 2013 (UTC)
 * I checked this already. A motion of confidence is treated like any other, so this will have to receive 50% pro to pass. :) --Semyon 15:42, June 15, 2013 (UTC)
 * Yeah, just checked that too. Maybe it's something to consider changing next Congress? :/ —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 15:45, June 15, 2013 (UTC)
 * Yeah, imo wouldn't an absentation, in this case, just be like not voting at all since it's just a straight foward Yes or No vote? Marcus/Michael Villanova 15:51, June 15, 2013 (UTC)
 * No, this bill has to get 50% to pass as normal. So as usual abstentions are the same as voting contra, practically speaking. --Semyon 15:53, June 15, 2013 (UTC)
 * IDK how that goes but I thought you wanted the SCP destroyed, this would be a way to raise activity and get rid of them. Marcus/Michael Villanova 15:40, June 15, 2013 (UTC)
 * I do, but I don't think an entirely new Congress is necessary. :P I might change my vote later, though. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 15:46, June 15, 2013 (UTC)


 * Well that's not nice. Lovia should not go into dirty politics like our neighbors to the east. My future with SCP is uncertain and has to be decided. I might just act on behalf of the party and merge it into a new project if Marcus is still in (as Happy is not around). HORTON11  : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 17:00, June 15, 2013 (UTC)


 * Well Ill have to talk to you about that, honestly on chat or now. I have questions Marcus/Michael Villanova 19:30, June 15, 2013 (UTC)