Forum:Speakers' Corner

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 * 1) All Lovians, regardless of their status or function, may, at any time, speak publicly at Speakers’ Corner.
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 * 3) Speakers’ Corner is a public space where all laws of the Kingdom of Lovia apply.
 * 4) Speakers’ Corner has the right to remove speakers from the park when the speaker is considered to be violating either the laws of the Kingdom of Lovia or the Speakers’ Corner regulations.
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Vote Breyev!


It's a nice start! I hope to see some more contents though for your next one :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 10:52, September 12, 2012 (UTC)

A vote for Abrahams is a vote for CLYMENE!


Under the previous Abrahams administration:
 * ✓ Tourism revenues have increased significantly


 * ✓ Adoha has been redeveloped to further attract people


 * ✓ Healthcare has been improved with the upkeep of Clymene's hospitals.

Re-elect your governor and he will ensure that:
 * Public transportation is expanded to buses and current transport is well maintained
 * Creation of a good centralized public and secondary school network
 * Local cultural events and attractions will be supported by the government

BE SURE TO VOTE Abrahams (Labour). HORTON11 : •  14:28, September 12, 2012 (UTC)

(More reasons to) vote Breyev!


SEMYON BREYEV is an independent candidate standing for election as Governor of Seven. Under his administration, two new schools have been built and excellent transport links introduced. He works hard to represent you both in Congress and back at home. He has: He deserves your vote. Give it to him on October the 1st.
 * morals and values, but also the pragmatism to work with opponents.
 * a unique knowledge of the state of Seven.
 * a desire to preserve Seven's culture and to increase autonomy from NC.
 * the dedication and love for his state which push him to work harder for it.

Lukas Hoffmann - All Sylvania Forwards!


Strength in the Head of Governance: Knowledge and Wealth for the People: Support from all Without and all Within:
 * Lukas Has Always Been On Top - Hoffmann is a decisive, intelligent and visionary citizen who is in touch with the people and has the experience and know how to make the CNP plans to help Lovia and Sylvania come together. He knows that Sylvania needs industry and education as well as freedom and security.
 * No Abandoning The Working Class - It's time to help the poor, the previous Governors party openly declares it focuses on the Middle Class while here in the CNP we focus on helping the Working Class increase their income as they need it the most. We hope to introduce a system of Welfare Vouchers within Sylvania and to fight off attempts to introduce hand down taxes such as VAT.
 * Unafraid To Ask For More Independence- We are ready to push for more powers to the states, so that Sylvania can be operated as Sylvania needs to not as a collective average of the States. We plan to work with Semyon Breyev and Oos Wes Ilava who are also running with promises of more autonomy to push this idea home.
 * Make Sylvania A True Centre Of Education - Sylvania has long been the centre of Education for all of Lovia, but with the growth of both the population and foreign interest in Lovia we should strive for more. We hope to evaluate the school system and increase the amount and specialisation of the Universities within Sylvania.
 * Helping Communities And Business Grow - As the Governor of Sylvania Lukas will help the new citizens from within and without Lovia to grow within the nation and help them grow their businesses. This will be done via unique interpersonal social and business start-up programs run by Lukas himself.
 * Popular Policies Don't Have To Be Expensive - Lukas has a strong track record of being good with money, always getting the best price, not using the size of the cash spent as a representation of a job well done. Spending will be done wisely under Lukas's governance, no cutting or spending for the sake of it.
 * States Unite To Have More Freedom - With more and more people wanting greater autonomy for the states, Lukas plans to campaign strongly along side them, some of the big names involved in aiming for greater autonomy are Oos Wes Ilava and Semyon Breyev who hope to be governors of other Lovian states. Uniting the states power together to generate more flexible local policy.

Settlements With Us:
 * Enhancing The Culture Capital Of Noble City - We aim to increase the educational capacity of Noble city, bulk up the services and secondary industry while giving support to primary industries and develop the cultural awareness within Noble City through Libraries and Museums. We plan to offset costs with the greater income and increased encouragement for tourism and industrial production.
 * Train Village Gaining Autonomy And Strength - We aim to develop the independence of Train Village within Sylvania giving it a little bit of leway to do things its own way, along with this we aim to promote both industry and tourism within Train Village giving it the reboot to its economy it's been asking for. These processes will bring in cash that can be used to offset costs and fund further projects.

So Sylvanians ask yourselves, do you want greater freedom and education for the future? do you want a community based leader who is with the people? do you want a system that furthers individual initiative and enterprise? '''Then when you come to vote and see the names on the ballot, ask yourself again! "don't you want things moving again?" then vote for Lukas Hoffmann! The decisive, intelligent and visionary leader Sylvania needs!'''

Kunarian (talk) 20:52, September 13, 2012 (UTC)



— Christopher Costello  (Pikapi • Chat  • What's up ) 01:42, September 14, 2012 (UTC)


 * I remember watching citizen kane and I can't help but find this applause quite amusing :L Kunarian (talk) 15:09, September 14, 2012 (UTC)
 * It reminds me of Romney's latest speech. Just like his, this is all sho and no go; just a buch of fancy words without real meaning. HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 20:45, September 14, 2012 (UTC)
 * Nothing but slander without meaning, I've clearly set out what I want to do, your leader has said nothing of what he plans to do for Sylvania, we need a Governor who understands the local situation. On top of that comparing me to Romney is fallacy, as he is not libertarian nor conservative. Kunarian (talk) 18:31, September 16, 2012 (UTC)

Progressive Common Sense
Helo, Noble City the Labour Party is back and we will form the next Lovian government!!! You know I go around Lovia alot, meet alot of new people and learn of what this country needs. Basically it's just some Progressive Common Sense! We look to other countries and ideas so that instead of trying and failing here, I want to best solutions to come to Lovia and have the best economic success. In January 2013, you go to the polls and vote it would be the stupidest thing to vote for a no regulation capitalist! Look at Europe and America, the biggest economies in the world fell, because of no oversight. Now you can look for example at Ireland where there was no reguation, low taxation and continued low taxation, no regulation and never got out of the recession. Or to America, where after long years of War, no regulation and low taxation they elected a regulator in chief and someone to fight for the middle class, and the current IMF projections show Obama's economy will grow larger and faster over the next four years! Now you can say this is bogus or look at the facts and use them! Now like I said, I've been around Lovia, and we're a pretty centrist country and I'll give credit were credit is due, and that is to Progressive Common Sense. When you take care of the poor and understand that giving the best opportunities to your citizens is how you build an economy that is when you will see economic growth.

You might have heard, but there is an election going on in America and recently in my hometown back in New York someone bought ad time and spoke of there past in socialist Hungry and how the "job creators" were dicouraged and how leftest politics never work. After I was done literally ROFLing I knew I had to write this speech, I know soicalism doesn't work but some aspects of socializing your health care industry and providing public schools and social security is right. And what might happen is the profit and jobs that could be made won't be made but the person in that ad doesn't understand not everything is for profit it's providing basic services to your middle class and poor that are the most vunerable. Its not for profit when my company Villanova Inc. provides public transportation at low rates and money is lost, but it's for the better of the country.

So going to the polls 2013 and you think the thought of becoming the 1% and risking your safety net to go become that 1% is worth it vote for another party. But when you want a party trusted on the NHS, Health and Welfare services and protecting the poor, vote progressive! Vote Labour! Thank you! Marcus/Michael Villanova 21:59, October 28, 2012 (UTC)


 * "You may have heard recently of a speech made by our Labour counterpart, Mr Villanova, where he spoke down capitalism and spoke down low taxes and spoke up Obama, a man who has violated the US constitution and allowed american citizens to be: 1. assasinated at will and 2. imprisoned indefinitely without charge. And then proceeded to go on a lot about how great he's been going around the country and how great his party is and a lot of other things that I will adress. But let's start with a positive point, about halfway through his speech he openly says "I know socialism doesn't work" thank god, finally we've got the point across to the leader of the left. Now some may say this is taken out of context however on the matter of capitalism vs socialism, he's clearly decided that it's been enough time hiding away and that he can finally come out of the closet and be the capitalist he is inside!


 * However I think we should be very afraid of the capitalism Mr Villanova offers. As I strongly suspect that it will be government operated corporatism were the poor suffer under a mountain of tax and the corporate executives get rich quick. For example, he's clearly already stated his hatred of low taxes however he also mentions his company which now has a public bus transport company. The very same public bus transport company that pays its workers only just above minimum wage and is constantly subsidised due to it not being able to manage it's revenue and spending.


 * I don't think it's very convincing that you're going to provide good services through government if you can't produce a company that pays it's workers well, because I tell Mr Villanova this, if anything is the problem with modern business, it's the low pay that workers get and the way government takes so much of this pay off of them. And with his company's record on workers pay and his plan to introduce more than ten types of new crippling taxes all I can say is that what we really need is business that is for profit and that is willing to pay its workers well.


 * The working class, middle class and upper class, ALL PARTS OF SOCIETY, benefit when workers are paid well and taxes are low. The working class are more willing the work and able to increase their standard of living by buying goods, the middle class are able to get jobs managing the places of work that the working class work at, the upper class are happy because they have managers and workers and because their goods are selling.


 * Everyone lives easier. And with our renewed efforts in Sylvania to provide and proper public transport service in cooperation with the CCPL, which will create jobs for many people and you will have to pay a little bit more to use these services but you should be able to do this because we're going to keep taxes low, so you can not only afford to pay a little more but you can afford to buy more things and treat yourself and your family or save for something you want or need, and on top of that you should be able to pay that little bit more because you should know that the person driving that bus is getting paid properly and you should know that the person repairing it is and you should know that we won't be wasting your taxes on subsidising something you can pay for.


 * Instead we'll be using your taxes to establish something you actually need, not something half socialists want. We'll be working to bring you a new welfare system that includes benefits for the elderly and benefits for those unlucky enough to have lost their job in the recession. We'll be working to establish a proper healthcare system that won't be monopolised but will provide for the poor and needy while making sure that those who can pay, do pay. We'll be using your taxes to ensure that your savings are safe by working ourselves out of the straight jacket of the Lovian dollar being pegged to the US dollar. We'll be using your taxes to ensure that education in Lovia is up to date and effective. We'll be using your taxes to ensure the economy grows and fights monopolies. We'll get things working again.


 * So when it comes to the 2013 federal election if you want a party that doesn't play class war, a party that has good economic sense and a party that has well defined plans for our healthcare and education then vote Conservative Nationalist! common sense policies from the party that truly wants to Bring Lovia Forwards Together!" - Hoffmann at the CNP conference building on an open night.


 * Funnily enough... I think me and Labour are going to be fighting the hardest next year for more states rights. Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 23:01, October 28, 2012 (UTC)
 * http://www.psychologicalscience.org/index.php/news/releases/a-more-progressive-tax-system-makes-people-happier.html
 * I've never actually let my politics be based on "politics" but science, psychology and thinking. More or less Sociaism isn't right but certain elements do work, Capitalism in just a psychological sense works, of the "teasing" of the upper crust, or else people would just stop working. I believe though progressivism and solidarity of the lower classes helps more people get that upper crust though simple as that and just makes great economic sense.
 * On InterBus, I understand 13.50 is above minimum wage, barley but I am offering good sustainable jobs to the Lovian people. On that note the unions and I are reaching a settlement to give them annual salaries like every othe bus comapny in the world and America (as a point) at 50.000 Dollars starting salary. It's not that i wouldn't like to offer them more but it's imports and the middle east's strangle hold on gasoline and our dependence on it that hurts. I've also worked to buy more electrically powered buses to solve this and stop the dependence on foriegn oil.
 * I do always sort of love that "big society" talk of, when taxes are low and people buy things and managers are happy and the sun has a giant smile everything works well :D just as how me and my counterpart agree socialism is wrong in that it is imaginary so is this sort of Ayn Rand sort of thought of no one looking after you or just no one helping you, helps everyone. Well I can telling you this "more is more" and "less is less" and when a government has no money and spends money that is doesn't have it can't offer it's "more" and has to rely on unwatched buinesses to offer them at higher rates.
 * I think though like I said most of this is common sense nothing mroe and giving states more power, like a devoluted assembly, weather you call it buacracy, works. The plan I proposed cleared that up, I admited yes, I want a govermental body at a local level controlling the issues the locals want. I think I'll push that through in the next congress and make sure the Lovian people get what they want. Marcus/Michael Villanova 00:32, October 29, 2012 (UTC)
 * @psychology: see this

HORTON11 : •  19:11, October 29, 2012 (UTC)

"What helps people move forwards together is not the solidarity of the lower classes but the solidarity of Lovians. And I urge Lovians to stand together against the class war of the left. We unlike Labour do not say we shall take what you have worked hard to earn and help you with your own money, we here in the CNP say that we MUST overcome our predjudices and we MUST learn to walk hand in hand and we MUST help ourselves! Unity does not need to be forced upon the people and no one needs be outcast for having more or less wealth. Unity will come by a strong government with strong leaders.

And with the inflation of the US dollar, inflating our Lovian dollar and the increasing costs of goods, at a time when the economy is still staying meagre and unwilling to leap forwards, it is no surprise that your workers have demanded higher and stablised pay.

However you raise the point of gasoline and oil being strangled by the middle east and how your company has avoided this stranglehold, what about the people of Lovia who cannot avoid this strangle hold? do we condemn them to being squeezed of every last cent in their pocket? no!

We have oil. All around us in Lovia, we have gas and other resources at sea and a huge exclusive economic zone which remains untouched. Cheap energy that we can use as a spark for our economy, however regulations demand that all energy produced be green. I say this is mad, why not use what we have? and bring to Lovia what other countries struggle with and fail to produce, in America their energy policy and economy is being dragged down by the two party system, in the UK they have had an increase in energy costs and the Government is powerless to do anything. We are not powerless! We can and will reboot our economy, the CNP will help lead the way forwards.

And I find it saddening that if you believe giving people freedom to use their own earnings to support themselves and believe that people helping each other by working together in business to produce goods and wealth for all are bad things and things that are imaginary, it will I'm sure come as a surprise when this becomes the norm in Lovia when we establish proper policy in Lovia guaranteeing the people freedom from over taxation, over regulation and over reaching government!

And what my opposition seems to fail to understand is that it is not us that will be using unwatched businesses in governance, it was Labours ruling of Sylvania that left everything to go unwatched and un altered and unchanged and now when we bring in a system to provide more for the people by ensuring that these businesses we shall work with have good wages and proper standards they call them unwatched and are upset that the people will have the choice of whether to spend their money on these services instead of having it taken in tax whether they use the service or not!

On States however we can finally agree, states need power and this power needs to be democratic. We at the CNP have a full state reform that is well written by Mr Hoffmann himself, and it will not incur bureaucracy, it will be the first step towards a truly confederate Lovia where your vote is worth more and where you get to decide on the issues in your area and where they won't be blocked by a central government so composed of different views that none truly get a voice. Our reform will bring the States up in power and give them the ability to legislate over social and civil law and will truly revolutionise the political operations of our nation.

The people trust us on this issue of States Rights and I truly believe they want us to move forwards with it and move forwards with it with other parties as the first sign of Lovian solidarity. We will bring more democracy to Lovia, we will Bring Lovia Forwards Together!" A follow up speech by Hoffmann, called a speech of great vigor and energy.

Hoffmann Kunarian TALK 01:27, October 29, 2012 (UTC)

Ha, okay but the "class war", a tactic used by the right to claim left wing re-distribution to evil and not for the common good, is bull crap and if any war is started it's by the Right wingers and the Rich by buying out political offices to be in there favor. At least when a Labour Union or people actually donate to a left wing party, it's the people's money, the 99% the people that will actually be affected by the change, or no change, in Government. I am always one for a debate over oil, but it always ends up, what will you do when it's gone!?! You will never run out of sun, or wind, or water that can power homes, cars and everything else. Marcus/Michael Villanova 12:41, October 29, 2012 (UTC)


 * "And here we have it, the Labour party showing their true colours, not of tolerance or of equality but of hatred and that hatred is of anyone who does not believe in their ideals and it is a hatred of anyone with more money than them. We all know that redistribution of wealth doesn't work, he even admitted it in the beginning, however what we do know that works is welfare, which is far from the redistribution of wealth he suggests we take on!


 * And to be so blinded by ideology to suggest that those who believe in market deregulation and those who have wealth start wars is madness! It is not the right or left wing government that declares war but the authoritarian government that does! And I believe a government under Labour would be very authoritarian. It would demand that you see as it sees and speak as it speaks, if you were to resist they would break you with taxes, regulation and laws. Making it impossible for you to hold an alternative view and live your life the way you choose.


 * The thing is that we recieve almost all of our donations from people, we recieve a set amount from the Kameron Family due to them being the partys creator and we do not accept money from corporations or unions, only people! We unlike the Labour Party do not wish to be brought out by Unions, we do not wish to divide society with this 99% falsehood and we do not wish to condemn and punish people for having a different view!


 * And on oil. Your so called alternative energy does not work! At least not yet, it is predicted to become practical and reliable in 40 years time. Until then we need something to keep us going, something that is cheap and reliable, something that current Green energy initiatives are not. Oil around Lovia will keep us going for 40 years and more with cheap energy and it will bridge the gap from energy technologies of the past to energy technologies of the future and will then be able to be used for things other than energy production. Green energy is the future and we should prepare for it but we aren't there yet and there's no point ignoring that fact.


 * So who do you want to vote for Lovia, the Labour party? the party that will punish you for thinking differently? the party that will punish you for being sucessful? the party that will punish you for wanting cheap energy now? or will you vote for the Conservative Nationalist Party? the party that wants you to be able to choose how you live, the party that will allow you to become successful and the party that will give Lovia cheap energy for now and the future!


 * Well it's quite clear where your vote should go, vote CNP! and help Bring Lovia Forwards Together!"


 * Hoffmann speaks directly to Villanova in front of a crowd in speakers corner after Villanovas short speech which he calls 'nothing but anger and jealousy towards those who think differently or have more, we need people in Congress of conviction and calm heads not those of discrimination and daggered eyes'. Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 18:30, October 29, 2012 (UTC)
 * We are not the intolerant ingornant people, We are the party of everyone. Gay, Black, Muslim, Rich, Poor, whate ever. You Arent. We understand ecnomics, we understand people and instead of making up false claims of that we are intolerant and we hate people, is quite hypocritial when a party who instead of actually putting foward credible ideas backed with even the least bit of thought. I never stated the class war, the class war doesn't truly exist but it's a tactic used by right-wingers to claim we hate the poor and we hate the rich and thus we hate everyone and we don't know anything about an economy. Not true, it's a war per se, when the rich buy out your congress and put in laws that protect the top not the 100%. At least when a Union does it, it protects the 99% so yes pick your poision, but i'd rather have someone or a group of the 99% funding me not the groups of the 1%. But like I said, and if the Governor would actually read, socialistic ideas work. You like your Social Security? You like you Medicare? You like you Universal Health Care? Public School? Things offered by the Public sector? Then you believe in socialistic ideas. So instead of making a profit and looking out for the top, these things offered to the public by using tax dollars, EVERYONE'S TAX DOLLARS. Becuase unlike the right, we believe the best comees out when the Public sector preforms it's best. Because everyone belongs to the Government and the Government belongs to us. So unlike you, who seperates people and claims someone else will try to seperate someone, we should come to together. Not to make a profit but to make this country better. You claim I'm against people. You claim I'm discrimate. Wrong. When it's the right wing who denies people rights and basic functions and denies the poor and middle class social mobility. I've never made the claim against you but I can see you and Mesiereere (the new guy) are the same claiming people are racist bigots with no proof when, like you from the right is someone who denies people basic economic and social rights. 'Marcus Villanova calls Kunarian's speeches the "Missinformation of the Right" Marcus/Michael Villanova 18:56, October 29, 2012 (UTC)


 * Just so we're clear, Progressive ≠ authoritarian. On the other hand, I, like many Lovians, would be wary of a party named "nationalist", since those are the ones to look out for.
 * Now why vote Labour? Because Labour, unlike the CNP, will embrace all ideas to better Lovia. Because Labour will help supply Lovia with clean energy for years to come. Because labor will help all hardworking Lovians to better help themselves, their families and their country. Unlike CNP, I cannot and will not make lots of fancy promises. What I do promise to Lovia, though, will be achieved.
 * Now Mr. Hoffmann is trying to make a fuss over a so-called class war.but his arguments of lowering taxes across the board will only further divide the bottom from the top. The solution is simple: progressive taxation. Like many tea-partyers and American rightists the CNP will try and denounce this as evil, but it works! Just look at Sweden, Norway, Japan, all these have progressive taxes and have become modern nations assisting all elements in society.WIth progressive tax, the poor will have to pay less and will have more money to benefit their family. And though the rich will pay proportionally more, that tax money will not go into greedy politicians' pockets; instead it will be re-invested in communities across Lovia to help people in all elements of society.


 * So, do we want to stay in the dark ages or would you rather move in to the future. If you do, vote Labour and Advance with Abrahams. HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 19:10, October 29, 2012 (UTC)


 * "They claim to be the party of everyone. They list gay, black, muslim, rich and poor. And then say we aren't. This is utter madness and people know this, this is just the prejudice of Villanova manifesting again, and we've seen it before so many times and the more power we give him and his party, the more power we give to prejudice. And onto his point about the rich and poor. His party has been banging the drum of the middle class for ages, his party proposed a tax plan that favoured the middle class over the poor and did not exclude them from tax and it was his party that wanted to implement hand down taxes that would rob the poor of even more of their hard earned cash.
 * And we have put forwards credible ideas, we've got a State Reform that is written up properly and fits perfectly with our current constitution unlike the bureaucratic mess that the reform proposed by the Labour party was. We also have a semi-progressive/flat tax system readying to be proposed and isn't over bearing nor unfair and doesn't favour the middle class unlike the tax system that has constantly been proposed by Labour.
 * And then he goes off again claiming that class war is used by rightists to put them down, so here we are agian onto his prejudice against the right, I am not blanket arguing against the left unlike him calling all leftists names and labels that do not apply to him, I argue against him and Labour. And with that comment agianst rightists, he can forget ever using the 'party for all Lovians' label again.
 * Onto his next argument of 99% and 1% again and these false ideas of the rich buying out congress. And then he slumps into personal insults and comes out saying that socialist ideas work, yada yada, I think I've already adressed this, the CNP are for things that benefit the society and the individual, simple.
 * His next comment is really something else though, he seems to suggest that making a profit helps the 1%, and here of course more prejudice and class war going on, well strangely enough making a profit helps everyone actually, it helps the workers feed themselves, it helps the customers live happier lives and it helps the manager create more jobs! So strangely enough I do like profits unlike him.
 * And then he suggests that we are trying to seperate people. US! the ones who call for Lovia to move forwards together, us, the ones who have not been attacking the rich constantly and us, the ones who have been calling for unity while the Labour party attacks the right and creates a huge division there! Sir I believe you should choose your next words carefully. Hypocrital statements are not appreciated in Lovia. Because the CNP no Labour is the true party of unity, we welcome all and want to work with all, our coalition that we are party of goes from the Greens to the SLP to the PL to the CNP, where is your Coaltion? no where, these four parties also cooperate with the CCPL, and I truly believe that it is these five parties that shall spell Lovia's future.
 * And then finally his final thrash to try and throw some mud, however before that of course making sure he says the standard 'the right hate everyone sentence' and then goes to aim. He makes the false claim that I have called someone a racist bigot, and falsely claims that we will deny people social and economic rights and once again tries to tie everyone from the right to his prejudicial idea. I think Marcus needs to wake up and realise he isn't in America, he isn't in England, he is in Lovia. And he has done more damage to himself I feel with his speech today and I believe that anyone that knows me and my politics or anyone who reads what I have said, they will know that I never falsely accuse people, I am for more rights than Marcus thinks people should have and I am for more power to the states without bureaucracy and without a subverse political agenda." Hoffmann refutes Villanovas claims Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 20:13, October 29, 2012 (UTC)
 * "I also received today a piece of research or more specifically a piece of writing on a piece of research on how progressive taxation supposibly makes people happier. I just need but a moment to refute this. People with wealth are happier than people without wealth. And when the richest countries in the world operate under progressive taxation and the poorer under flatter tax systems (due to them utilising the policy to build their economies) you can clearly see that not only is this data false in supporting its argument but completely wrong to use as evidence. You need two countries with similar economies and similar societies with the biggest difference between them being a flat and progressive tax system to perform this experiment. And lord knows where we are going to find one of those.
 * And no progressive does not equal authoritarian but the prejudice expressed by you and your party leader will lead to authoritarianism, because authoritarian regimes thrive off of prejudice they feed and live off of it! Then he tells us to be wary of us for calling ourselves nationalists, so should we be wary of our Prime Minister Mr Ilava who is an Oceana nationalist? the Prime Minister who has garnered some of the highest approval ratings in Lovian history and the Prime Minister who has given this country stability and peace and has included everyone, from left to right, and conservative to progressive in its governance? no nationalism is nothing to be afraid of however returning to the days where only the likes of Marcus and Abrahams hold places in government is something to be very afraid of.
 * And once again they attack the idea of low taxes, and then he like his leader attacks the right as a whole, and despite the fact that we are working on a semi-progressive flat tax system claims we call this system evil. And I say that yes we like low taxes, and yes we like flat taxes but we like low taxes more and so we have agreed to a semi-progressive system. So we want you to keep more money in your pocket and go buy yourself something nice instead of forking out every hard earned cent to be spent by Labour who think that they know better than everyone about what to do with their money.
 * And I think most people will realise that CNP policies are not medieval like Abrahams suggest however I must say my oppositions political debate seems to be! Vote CNP and Bring Lovia Forwards Together!" Hoffmann adressing Abrahams concerns. Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 20:13, October 29, 2012 (UTC)
 * Don't forget I was the one who proposed the compromise between progressive and flat. And fear tactics don't work; if that's all you do you're not getting very far. Instead of all this dirty politics, we should find a way to work together and prevent fighting. If a party is only interested in its own success, what will happen to the people's. HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 20:22, October 29, 2012 (UTC)
 * The compromise we were already working out? I don't deny your place in suggesting it. But you arguing against lower taxes is simply wrong. And I'm not the one using fear tactics, I've been suggesting solutions, all you and your leader have been doing is proving your prejudice and therefore your lack of quality for a position leading the government. And the party that started the fighting is yours, not mine, and after the failure of your mud slinging and now that your position is losing you suddenly go on about dirty politics and how to stop it. May I be the first to suggest that you don't bring your prejudices against anyone on the right or who is conservative to the table. Then you'll stop the fighting. Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 20:32, October 29, 2012 (UTC)

Jackson Welsh's Speech
In the last week certain user's have claimed my parties name and message is "dumb" and "makes no sense". My party's message is clear and so is the name, the people want freedom and the want it in a progressive manner.

Mr.Krosby has said "marijuana" is legalized. Yet I say, it is and isn't, we want it defined as is. And our goal of it being legalized is currently threatened by Mr.Seymon because of the law's, currently in the first chamber, language outlawing the smoking of HEMP! We also stand for more rights which come in the form of anti-prohibition. We want to lower the voting age to 16, we want to legalize prostitution in a regulated and good manner and allow people to put non-harmful drugs in there body and have control over there body because they are knowledgeable adults. Secondly our message is much different than the "Green Party" which is a center, center-right party. Our message is, as said before, anti-prohibition, progressive pragmatic politics. Building bridges, improving our environment, helping the middle class and putting people first. Please support our democratic right to survive and the right's of the people! (Jackson Welsh)

(Person who is NOT Krosby): Just look at this name. Green Anti-Prohibition Party. What a ridiculous, ludicrous, and silly name for a political party. The GAPP should never have existed, and should remain three separate parties. After all, this would be like the current Green Party and Labour merging. They have separate views, and the three political parties that make up GAPP are not actually that similar, despite all having progressive views. Finally, marijuana is already 100% legal! Why in the world do we need a ludicrous cannabis party? I say these people should join the Green Party or continue their old HEMPPAC as a PAC and not a party. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 22:47, November 12, 2012 (UTC)

OOC: Also, please stop assuming that what I say is what Krosby says. Krosby is the main politician that I control, not someone who announces all of my OOC stances. In character, Krosby has said nothing about GAPP yet. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 23:03, November 12, 2012 (UTC)

@OOC: -_- crap, @TM - True but what would you perfer a "united left" big tent sort of merger party? Marcus/Michael Villanova 23:10, November 12, 2012 (UTC)

@OOC: -_- not crap. This is what TM is saying, NOT Krosby. Krosby has said nothing about GAPP. @Marcus - Alright, let's talk rationally as if we've never argued about GAPP. ok? Anyway: My proposal is to keep ARP a separate party, remove RENT from existence (there is Labour or CPL.nm) and have HEMPPAC remain a political pressure group. You can have control, but I'd like to keep ARP the way it currently is (but with Liz West) and I'd like to give ARP one MOTC. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 23:16, November 12, 2012 (UTC)

Also, you don't smoke hemp. You smoke marijuana. Hemp is a cousin of marijuana. (preemptive: -_- not crap.) —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 21:23, November 13, 2012 (UTC)

Not really a "cousin", more of a source. 77topaz (talk) 23:39, November 13, 2012 (UTC)

On the road to a new Lovia
Lovia is a great nation. It is a wonderful nation. But like all things wonderful and amazing, it too, has it's flaws. Periods of great fortune and success have been followed by periods of misery, death and destruction. Little over a year ago, our brave little nation had to deal with one of the most horrific episodes in it's short but lively history... the Lovian Civil War. It was a horrendous war and a great crime against humanity. Brother against brother, father against son. Nobody knew who was on what side, there were so many different parties involved each with their own interests and ideals... the horrors of war we witnessed in those frightful days will haunt our collective memories forever.

Never can we, and will we, forget the events of that unfateful month. Never will we forget those who fell fighting for their homes and families, their regions, their culture, their nation. Never will we forget. But we will forgive. We have to forgive. We cannot hold grudges. With those responsible either dead or behind bars, we have to keep strong, we have to keep together! One great nation, devided under one flag, one nation. Visions of greatness and grandeur of the past, we will make them a reality. And we will do so together. Hand in hand, as brothers and sisters. As citizens of the greatest nation that ever has been and ever will be on God's green earth.

We will build together a new Lovia, better then the old Lovia. This new Lovia will rise like the old mystical phoenix from the ashes and shattered hopes of the Civil War. And as God is my witness, my dear friends and supporters, we Lovians will become the envy of the world! Vote CCPL, for the Conservative Christian Party of Lovia is the only true hope for our poor broken nation. Vote for us and make the little weeping angel that is our nation smile once again. Vote for the best party this country and this political system has to offer. For a vote for us, is a vote for a new Lovia! Support us, and we will write history together.


 * Ygo August Donia, CCPL congressman, former Prime Minister

We will catch Koshkov and Il Duce eventually. They've fled or been missing respectively for over a year now. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 00:49, November 14, 2012 (UTC)
 * You will never find me! Hahahaha! --A tape recorder found mysteriously in Speakers' Corner. 14:42, November 23, 2012 (UTC)

Still think it's a shame La Blaca died though :( --O u WTBsjrief-mich 15:08, November 23, 2012 (UTC)


 * I'm just a bit mad at how Il Duce was able to take over all of Oceana and half of Sylvania in a couple days. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 15:19, November 23, 2012 (UTC)
 * Force of surprise? :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 15:32, November 23, 2012 (UTC)
 * I did like how he posted pictures of some Thirty Years War battle for the Siege of Train Village, though. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 15:33, November 23, 2012 (UTC)
 * Hahah :P Yeah, the facists did give some schwung to Lovia :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 16:04, November 23, 2012 (UTC)


 * I do have a strange feeling Koshkov has relations with Mr. Breyev. Maybe it's just the bad dressing of both of them.  Happy65   Talk CNP  LogoCNP.png 16:58, December 8, 2012 (UTC)
 * Bad dressing != no dressing. Pretty basic fact of life I'd say. Noöne wants a nude Breyev presiding at Question Time. :P --Semyon 16:47, April 2, 2013 (UTC)
 * You shouldn't be too certain of that. Women of a particular age might show interest in seeing that though :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 17:36, April 2, 2013 (UTC)

Vote Ilave, vote CCPL!
--O u WTBsjrief-mich 16:37, December 8, 2012 (UTC)


 * Thus it has begun. Charles Alexander Bennett (talk) 17:12, December 8, 2012 (UTC)
 * Yes, it has :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 17:14, December 8, 2012 (UTC)


 * Oh, I see. So how do I vote for the slovak town? Oh, If I'm right, that must be the town hall of Ilava, Slovakia. :P  Happy65   Talk CNP  LogoCNP.png 07:08, December 9, 2012 (UTC)


 * Just kidding. Great poster.  Happy65   Talk CNP  LogoCNP.png 07:09, December 9, 2012 (UTC)
 * Paint skills è --O u WTBsjrief-mich 09:15, December 9, 2012 (UTC)


 * MS Paint? I mean terrible poster.  Happy65   Talk CNP  LogoCNP.png 09:25, December 9, 2012 (UTC)
 * Hahaha, you youngsters are slightly spoilt with your new software :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 09:31, December 9, 2012 (UTC)


 * ...  Happy65   Talk CNP  LogoCNP.png 09:32, December 9, 2012 (UTC)

VOTE CNP - VOTE LUKAS HOFFMANN


'''WATCH THIS SPACE. THIS IS HOFFMANNS PUBLIC INFORMATION FEED FOR THE ELECTIONS. DON'T MISS A THING!'''

TBD

a counter campaign from labour, full of fallacy


Marcus, you made a spelling mistake in a campaign ad. :P 77topaz (talk) 23:05, December 9, 2012 (UTC)
 * In defence of the CNP, the proposals aren't that vague. Lukas can be a bit wordy sometimes, but that's not the same thing. Anyway, I shall be interested to see Labour elaborate on their plans for 2013. --Semyon 23:14, December 9, 2012 (UTC)
 * It's wordy because it's the flagship poster in my campaign, designed to give you a good overview of our aims, I'll be releasing others on finer points soon. Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 23:24, December 9, 2012 (UTC)
 * This one isn't wordy, you have a lot to say but and manage to say it in not too many words. Some of your speeches, on the other hand, are a pain to read, and they must be even worse to write. You're just not the most concise person on this wiki, and that's one of my few criticisms of you. :P --Semyon 23:32, December 9, 2012 (UTC)

Hoffmanns reply:

"We have established that not only can Markus not spell but that he is also lazy, false and hypocritical, he seems to think that a political poster should write every thing into minuscule details like we're publishing legislation.

He is lazy because he cannot make his own ad and has to take ours.

He is false because he says that detailing on a poster that we are for a free economy, low taxes without taxes on the vulnerable and a positive trade balance is being vague.

He is hypocritical because he says that Labour agrees with it all, while having supported full nationalisation in many sectors of the economy, having supported the most introduction of taxes amongst any party in lovia and having not even wanted to put in an exclusion for the poor on them and worst of all he doesn't believe in bringing Lovia forwards together but rather, only those with whom he agrees or can convince to agree with him.

Don't vote Labour, they don't even read their opponents posters. Vote anyone but Labour, preferably CNP. Bring Lovia Forwards Together! Hoffmann Kunarian TALK 23:24, December 9, 2012 (UTC)

And need I mention that the "working man" Labour have supported, is only the middle class, they preach about the middle class and protecting them. They are the only party in fact that ignored the working man until the CNP started fighting for the rights of the common man. Thing is we fight for the rights of all people while making sure the poorest are protected and unlike Labour we have a clear history of doing so, so who will you vote for on that matter? The clean cut and devoted CNP or the murky image of Labour? Hoffmann Kunarian TALK 23:28, December 9, 2012 (UTC)

I guess the CNP-SLP-GP-LP coalition is no longer intact? :P 77topaz (talk) 23:29, December 9, 2012 (UTC)


 * That was a great typo. LP instead of PL leads to so much confusion. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 23:33, December 9, 2012 (UTC)
 * Oh, darn it, annoying abbreviations. :P 77topaz (talk) 23:36, December 9, 2012 (UTC)
 * Man, good thing we realised that now, instead of later :L and semyon, I agree :L Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 23:37, December 9, 2012 (UTC)
 * Sorry, the recent SLP-LP stuff must've confused me. :P 77topaz (talk) 23:40, December 9, 2012 (UTC)

* tension rising...* --Semyon 23:32, December 9, 2012 (UTC)

This promises to turn into an interesting discussion, especially as quite a few people seem to be online, but I really need to go to bed. :( --Semyon 23:37, December 9, 2012 (UTC)


 * Yeah me too. So I'll clean up the Labour stuff tomorrow. :) Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 23:46, December 9, 2012 (UTC)
 * You guys are going now, even though the nominations start in ten minutes? :P 77topaz (talk) 23:50, December 9, 2012 (UTC)
 * No I'm going right after the nominations Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 23:55, December 9, 2012 (UTC)
 * I see. Is there any particular person who "opens" them, or is there no such "procedure"? 77topaz (talk) 23:58, December 9, 2012 (UTC)
 * Not that I am aware of. Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 00:01, December 10, 2012 (UTC)
 * Okay. Was that the right format? 77topaz (talk) 00:08, December 10, 2012 (UTC)
 * Kind of, try and keep the bit you wrote as "environmentalist, liberal, leftist" down to two words. Such as Liberal Environmentalist or Leftist Environmentalist. Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 00:10, December 10, 2012 (UTC)

Guys... Lovia is UTC -9, not UTC. 9 more hours. :P —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 00:11, December 10, 2012 (UTC)
 * Damn, I was so happy for being first :L Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 00:14, December 10, 2012 (UTC)
 * It opens at 4:00 am for me, and I get up around 6:30 am, so maybe I'll be first like last year. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 00:16, December 10, 2012 (UTC)
 * but but, Time... :L I need to go to bed now anyways. See you tomorrow. :L Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 00:17, December 10, 2012 (UTC)

There's no hurry anyway. We had two people enter on the last day and one person seven days late last year è. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 00:26, December 10, 2012 (UTC)

The "Example User" nomination is set at 00:00 UTC though :P 77topaz (talk) 00:36, December 10, 2012 (UTC)

My bad. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 00:39, December 10, 2012 (UTC)

So, which one is correct? 77topaz (talk) 00:44, December 10, 2012 (UTC)

9:00 UTC is. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 01:00, December 10, 2012 (UTC)

Okay, i will put up my nomination then. Congress here i come! :D Daembrales (talk) 01:07, December 10, 2012 (UTC)

Why does Labour have an official opposition against the CNP?  Happy65   Talk CNP   08:25, December 10, 2012 (UTC)

Because they disagree with each other. CNP has an unofficial opposition against Labour, likewise. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 00:36, December 11, 2012 (UTC)

Vote William Krosby (SLP)!


At least I did better than Oos. :3 —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 00:39, December 10, 2012 (UTC)

it's not bad at all! you have my vote this election. :p Daembrales (talk) 01:07, December 10, 2012 (UTC)

What's wrong with my "Uncle Ilava" poster? :'( --O u WTBsjrief-mich 04:15, December 10, 2012 (UTC)

The colors clash and it's hard to read. I like the text though. :P —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 04:17, December 10, 2012 (UTC)

Hahaha, OWTB quality è :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 04:19, December 10, 2012 (UTC)

Well, there must be a reason people here dislike MS Paint so badly... ;) 77topaz (talk) 19:28, December 10, 2012 (UTC)

Dont we have a NHS? Pro Marcus/Michael Villanova 23:32, December 11, 2012 (UTC)

Vote Charles Bennett


*Charles stands in front of a tractor in the middle of a field*

The Political Commercial Continues

​"Progression, Insight, Hope, we must meditate on these items, for these are the signs of a good nation. Tomorrow in the light of a new dawn, we shall move forward Together, and I hope the people of Lovia will vote me to hold your banner to that dawn.

As a member of Congress, I will not worry about the political interest of parties, but the political outlook of the people. I will work intently with that of other congressmen, of both the left and right. We will see Lovia's taxes be adjusted to an amount that is realistic, one that is fair and balanced and will encourage prosperity in Lovia. I will ensure that Lovia's growing economy is not paralyzed, while not allowing for the budget to be broke."

'''Get to know me! Charles Alexander Bennett '''

'''Have Questions? Talk to me! User: -Sunkist-'''

Vote Leskromento


So, remember to vote for Dave Leskromento. <font color="Teal"> Happy65  <font color="Aqua"> Talk CNP   07:42, December 10, 2012 (UTC)

Comments, here.

I love your font. :P —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 11:56, December 10, 2012 (UTC)

My secret font. Not to be revealed. You will never find out what it is. <font color="Teal"> Happy65  <font color="Aqua"> Talk CNP   18:08, December 10, 2012 (UTC)

I do not like it for a political poster. It's slightly too "wobbly" and it looks a bit childish :P I don't dislike the contents of the poster that much though :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 09:52, December 12, 2012 (UTC)

Okay. <font color="Teal"> Happy65  <font color="Aqua"> Talk CNP   15:52, December 18, 2012 (UTC)

Well, at least the coalition members like it. <font color="Teal"> Happy65  <font color="Aqua"> Talk CNP   19:57, December 19, 2012 (UTC)

A vote for PL is a vote for awesome
<youtube width="300" height="25" >DCrL76vGpNA I know that we have a lot to live up to this year. With absolutely no real-life advertising material to display on the Speaker's Corner this year (because of my photo editing limitations, but thats a whole different story), it might be hard for us to prove ourselves conventionally, so I came up with a different method. This audio portrays all of Positive Lovia's most awesome values. Listen to the whole thing now, don't cheat. I think it's clear who to vote for this election day. — <font color=#2E6FFD>Christopher Costello (<font color=#2E6FFD>Pikapi • <font color=#2E6FFD>Chat  • <font color=#2E6FFD>What's up ) 00:09, December 11, 2012 (UTC)




 * Not only that, see User:Pikapi/Awesomism. :) — <font color=#2E6FFD>Christopher Costello (<font color=#2E6FFD>Pikapi • <font color=#2E6FFD>Chat  • <font color=#2E6FFD>What's up ) 00:41, December 11, 2012 (UTC)
 * A piece of video game soundtrack and a joke? Well, I must say... an original campaign message/ad, Mr Costello. :P 77topaz (talk) 07:43, December 11, 2012 (UTC)
 * Nononono. An awesome one. — <font color=#2E6FFD>Christopher Costello (<font color=#2E6FFD>Pikapi • <font color=#2E6FFD>Chat  • <font color=#2E6FFD>What's up ) 00:04, December 12, 2012 (UTC)


 * ... This is a strange campaign. <font color="Teal"> Happy65  <font color="Aqua"> Talk CNP  LogoCNP.png 07:17, December 12, 2012 (UTC)

I wasted four hundred and forty-nine seconds listening to this. I hope you're happy. --Semyon 15:05, January 1, 2013 (UTC)

CDP, vote for the party with ever-changing name
Taiyō wants you to vote for the CDP!







Preserving the Conservatives

Labour 2013
Fighting to unite everyone. Create jobs and help the country grow. Building Bridges to the Future. Together. Marcus/Michael Villanova 23:44, December 11, 2012 (UTC)




 * * Can't spell very well. — <font color=#2E6FFD>Christopher Costello (<font color=#2E6FFD>Pikapi • <font color=#2E6FFD>Chat  • <font color=#2E6FFD>What's up ) 00:07, December 12, 2012 (UTC)

True, i have dyslexia. Marcus/Michael Villanova 00:10, December 12, 2012 (UTC)
 * I have aspergers syndrome :] medical history sharing time in the pub! :L Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 00:12, December 12, 2012 (UTC)

No more typos! —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 00:20, December 12, 2012 (UTC)

Lol true. I also have discalculia (spelt wrong xD) which is the dyslexic version of numbers so on a test if i see like 3x5 and it's obviously like 15 id put like 51. Its kinda funny Marcus/Michael Villanova 00:26, December 12, 2012 (UTC)

Oops, sorry for teasing you then, Marcus. But in all seriousness, would you guys like a gift basket? No offense, but I really can't stand when people share that they have disabilities over the internet expecting to receive some kind of unnecessary special treatment. A little inside secret is that just about every other person that regularly contributes to a wiki has a little something off about them (its a trend!) and if you guys can socialize over the internet, you don't have any reason to share and nothing to be ashamed of. I'm only going to tell you guys this to put you in the right mindset, I have ADD (and possibly histrionic personality disorder) and I hate giving people the opportunity to consider me different and how some of my friends go around with a gung-ho autistic pride attitude (which I find demeaning) and get alienated for it by people with (shallow) "socially progressive" attitudes. And that sort of leads into why I feel the way I do politically in a nutshell. :I — <font color=#2E6FFD>Christopher Costello (<font color=#2E6FFD>Pikapi • <font color=#2E6FFD>Chat  • <font color=#2E6FFD>What's up ) 01:06, December 12, 2012 (UTC)
 * I love gift baskets :L I personally have always viewed the difference in attitude my autism gives me as a strength although what you say about it forming your political views around the attitudes cast at you, I feel my views were crafted for the same reason. Although the reason I share is because personally I'm proud to be autistic, and honestly I like being more individual than most people because of it. Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 07:36, December 12, 2012 (UTC)


 * Shall we go back on to the campaign topic? <font color="Teal"> Happy65  <font color="Aqua"> Talk CNP  LogoCNP.png 07:38, December 12, 2012 (UTC)
 * Yes but it's always nice to have a little chat every now and again. Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 07:50, December 12, 2012 (UTC)

Hahaha, I'm politically radical in the Netherlands, does that also count as a mental defect? :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 09:54, December 12, 2012 (UTC)
 * We take whatever we can get Oos! :L Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 09:58, December 12, 2012 (UTC)
 * Yeah! I'll get a basket too now :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 10:02, December 12, 2012 (UTC)
 * Me: I guess having a high IQ isn't a defect. :) Though I do have "autistic tendencies" and my social skills aren't exactly great. Plus, at least half of my IRL "friends" would probably get a basket. :P 77topaz (talk) 10:51, December 12, 2012 (UTC)
 * Because we feel sorry for you too, you'll be getting a basket as well :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 10:54, December 12, 2012 (UTC)
 * I thought Kunarian was in charge of the baskets. :P 77topaz (talk) 10:59, December 12, 2012 (UTC)
 * I secretly stole I few from him, 'cause I didn't find one basket sufficient for my political radicalism :O --O u WTBsjrief-mich 11:01, December 12, 2012 (UTC)
 * Hmm. I guess kleptomania would count as a mental defect, so I can give you that. 77topaz (talk) 11:03, December 12, 2012 (UTC)
 * Hahahaha :P I wasn't stealing just to be stealing though. It was for a just cause :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 11:06, December 12, 2012 (UTC)
 * Well, I guess I can count your political views as a defect. 77topaz (talk) 11:11, December 12, 2012 (UTC)
 * Hahahaha, that's a good one though :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 11:15, December 12, 2012 (UTC)
 * What you are saying is true, Hoffmann, but I prefer to be an individual (without being victimized) and to fit in as well. When you think about it logically, everyone is an individual anyways, so you may as well not get rooted out from the crowd for it. I was never bad socially though and I don't have autism, I just can't bring myself to pay attention in class and I am a bit egotistical and "good with words," apparently. :L — <font color=#2E6FFD>Christopher Costello (<font color=#2E6FFD>Pikapi • <font color=#2E6FFD>Chat  • <font color=#2E6FFD>What's up ) 12:34, December 12, 2012 (UTC)

Vote Ilava and CCPL!/Lasovat Ilava an CCPL!


I should be writing my own election propaganda, but the CCPL PR team needs a hand. :P --Semyon 15:20, December 12, 2012 (UTC)
 * How dare you :'( --O u WTBsjrief-mich 15:26, December 12, 2012 (UTC) thanks, it looks great :P

Musta hired the Tory2010 campaign people, airbrushed and odd photos which have little to do with the actual subject...still always gets my vote. :D Marcus/Michael Villanova 23:33, December 12, 2012 (UTC)

Actually, that picture looks good. <font color="Teal"> Happy65  <font color="Aqua"> Talk CNP  08:13, December 13, 2012 (UTC)

Yes, I do like that the theme this year seems to be Uncle Ilava the dutch pirate. :D — <font color=#2E6FFD>Christopher Costello (<font color=#2E6FFD>Pikapi • <font color=#2E6FFD>Chat  • <font color=#2E6FFD>What's up ) 00:32, December 14, 2012 (UTC)

I don't know where my third vote is going yet. I think it's going to Oos (if he runs :P). If he doesn't it might go to Kunarian or Semyon. --Quarantine Zone (talk) 03:21, December 14, 2012 (UTC)

Well, your second vote cannot go to Justin Avant, since he hasn't run yet, and the person has to nominate themself. <font color="Teal"> Happy65  <font color="Aqua"> Talk CNP   08:27, December 16, 2012 (UTC)

Justin Avant was removed because he wasn't a citizen yet. 77topaz (talk) 19:44, December 16, 2012 (UTC)

Labour 2013: (i guess this is our new ad campaign)
I like this new ad campaign... Marcus/Michael Villanova 01:51, December 14, 2012 (UTC)

Some unsigned comment against abortions by Sunkist that he later deleted. -Sunkist

Please do! Abortions are a constitutional right. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 15:43, December 16, 2012 (UTC)

Woah, that was ment to go in my section. It should also be a constitutional right for that child to be able to develope, to be able to mold their own destiny. Lovia is a healthy, wealthy, educated nation, there is no reason for abortions. Charles Alexander Bennett (talk) 15:55, December 16, 2012 (UTC)

I don't see the reason not to. An embryo is not a child. Besides, on that thinking, why isn't it required to have all unfertilized eggs be fertilized and develop so that they will be able to mold their own destiny? Lastly, it's not the government's choice. It's the woman who is pregnant's choice. She shouldn't have to give birth and take care of a child if she doesn't want to. If she doesn't want to, won't the child be neglected? —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 16:18, December 16, 2012 (UTC)


 * Are the cells of the embryo that of a human, yes? Yes they are. Then we classify, how far has this human progressed in life, his origional cell has already caused division and now consists of lets say; two cells. This is LIFE, when cell division  begins, it is technically life. Because of course most people on this site are Atheists, you will admit that what the physical is only true- no eternal soul, no spiritual presence, so what is the physical of the two cells- a Human. If you argue that a fully developed human only accounts as being truly human, who can think and do what they need by themself, then you could argue that early infants which have little brain activity and motor skills are not human. The infants are human, they have cell division and are in a growth period. Right now you have cell division happening inside you, you are technically life. When your life ends, you will see that cell division will cease, you are no longer a living being. Charles Alexander Bennett (talk) 16:55, December 16, 2012 (UTC)

(slippery slope argument) by that conclusion every teenage boy is a criminal for mastrubation. Although insane, the same logic would have to be use for that. Marcus/Michael Villanova 16:37, December 16, 2012 (UTC)


 * Sperm do not show any type of cell division, they are the activation to event, but they are not life. The argument is if embryo are a child are not, and now you said that sperm is where life begins, but its when cell division does 'life' begin. Charles Alexander Bennett (talk) 16:55, December 16, 2012 (UTC)

No, an unfertilized egg or sperm is clearly not in the same situation as a fertilized embryo (false analogy, the argument is fallacious). --Semyon 16:48, December 16, 2012 (UTC)


 * I think it is because they have the potential to become a fertilized embryo. And isn't potential to become life the argument? ;) —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 17:47, December 16, 2012 (UTC)
 * But embryo's are life. Sperm is not. Charles Alexander Bennett (talk) 17:51, December 16, 2012 (UTC)
 * @TM: actually not, an embryo and arguably a sperm are already alive. The difference is that the embryo is a human (albeit a rather undeveloped one :P) whereas the sperm is not. --Semyon 18:12, December 16, 2012 (UTC)
 * But they have the potential to merge and become an embryo è. :P I actually don't support abortion personally but I'll be the last to stand in the way of others. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 18:18, December 16, 2012 (UTC)
 * Don't know what potential has to do with it è. :P I agree that more leniency should be possible if the abortion is really going to ruin the mother's (or father's, or child's) life, but in general people should take responsibility for their actions - particularly when it's so easy to get contraception. --Semyon 19:21, December 16, 2012 (UTC)

Hm. A majority of the time, when a mother wants an abortion, she is not in a good "situation" to bring up a child anyway. 77topaz (talk) 19:33, December 16, 2012 (UTC)


 * But she was in a good enough situation to have sex, funny. Charles Alexander Bennett (talk) 19:37, December 16, 2012 (UTC)
 * The "requirements" for that are quite different. :P 77topaz (talk) 19:38, December 16, 2012 (UTC)
 * Yeah, let's not be frivolous, this is a serious matter. :P @Nicholas: well yes, that's the bit I'm always doubtful about. --Semyon 19:42, December 16, 2012 (UTC)
 * (Continuing the slippery slope argument) so isn't it when a guy masturbates, or a women leaves her eggs unfertilized that is also murder, because there was the chance of life? Marcus/Michael Villanova 22:29, December 16, 2012 (UTC)
 * To quote myself : 'Don't know what potential has to do with it è.' --Semyon 09:06, December 17, 2012 (UTC)

@TM: about the potential, several atoms also have the potential to form life... --O u WTBsjrief-mich 08:50, December 17, 2012 (UTC)

A Blessing, Not A Disease!


Pregnancy is a Blessing, not a Disease!

Vote Charles Alexander Bennett to support responsible Healthcare in Lovia!

Charles Alexander Bennett (talk) 05:03, December 16, 2012 (UTC)
 * That's the spirit! --O u WTBsjrief-mich 09:23, December 16, 2012 (UTC)


 * End abortion! May I suggest a Bismarck model health care? --Quarantine Zone (talk) 23:40, December 17, 2012 (UTC)

A peaceful society - for n'us Bog!


CCPL - for n'us Bog! --O u WTBsjrief-mich 10:25, December 16, 2012 (UTC)


 * P. You've already done loads of speeches. <font color="Teal"> Happy65  <font color="Aqua"> Talk CNP  LogoCNP.png 10:29, December 16, 2012 (UTC)
 * Just to ensure the 30 seats we're getting according to Semyon :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 10:42, December 16, 2012 (UTC)


 * 30 seats? No way. The CNP will challenge the CCPL to more seats. <font color="Teal"> Happy65  <font color="Aqua"> Talk CNP  LogoCNP.png 10:48, December 16, 2012 (UTC)
 * I don't even know what "n'us bog" is supposed to mean. :P 77topaz (talk) 11:04, December 16, 2012 (UTC)


 * It's in latin or oceana, I think. <font color="Teal"> Happy65  <font color="Aqua"> Talk CNP  LogoCNP.png 11:20, December 16, 2012 (UTC)
 * We're gonna get those 30 seats. One way or another :P
 * It's Oceana: for our God :) --O u WTBsjrief-mich 11:20, December 16, 2012 (UTC)


 * A vote for Ilava is a vote for cuts in education and noble city dictatorship with some money-wasting road building projects. <font color="Teal"> Happy65  <font color="Aqua"> Talk CNP  LogoCNP.png 11:25, December 16, 2012 (UTC)
 * Let's not be too aggressive in our counter campaigns shall we :L Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 13:05, December 16, 2012 (UTC)
 * @Happy- -in your opinion-
 * @Oos/Sunkist - why are we reverting to an irish abortion stance :( how regressive Marcus/Michael Villanova 13:12, December 16, 2012 (UTC)
 * Its not regressive, I just see that us living in a 3rd world country without almost any poverty, having tons of educational programs and sex preventions, its pointless for us to have abortions. You get knocked up, thats your choice, now a new destiny is begining inside you and its not up to you to end it in its first weeks of development. Charles Alexander Bennett (talk) 15:10, December 16, 2012 (UTC)
 * (question, not implying anything) Is rape a choice ? Marcus/Michael Villanova 16:40, December 16, 2012 (UTC)
 * No - otherwise it wouldn't be rape. :P I think Sunkist is speaking generally, obviously you can't apply blanket judgements to a wide variety of different ethical situations. --Semyon 16:50, December 16, 2012 (UTC)
 * @Marcus: On Oos's previous campaign, his campaign mentions that he cuts in education, has a NC dictatorship and some money wasting road building projects. <font color="Teal"> Happy65  <font color="Aqua"> Talk CNP  LogoCNP.png 16:53, December 16, 2012 (UTC)
 * Let me quote exactly: 'Oos Wes Ilava is... Noble City dictatorship,  cuts in education, [and]  useless, money-wasting roads.' --Semyon 17:15, December 16, 2012 (UTC)


 * Oh, sorry, I didn't realise. <font color="Teal"> Happy65  <font color="Aqua"> Talk CNP  LogoCNP.png 17:20, December 16, 2012 (UTC)
 * Ilva is the type of guy who'll spend in healthcare and education to assist everyone, but I would non see him spending recklessly like the Greeks. HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 17:37, December 16, 2012 (UTC)
 * No you'll cover that for him won't you Horton ;) Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 18:31, December 16, 2012 (UTC)


 * What? <font color="Teal"> Happy65  <font color="Aqua"> Talk CNP  LogoCNP.png 18:54, December 16, 2012 (UTC)
 * Ha. :P --Semyon 19:22, December 16, 2012 (UTC)


 * ... <font color="Teal"> Happy65  <font color="Aqua"> Talk CNP  LogoCNP.png 19:23, December 16, 2012 (UTC)
 * Happy, Kunarian is implying that Horton spends recklessly. 77topaz (talk) 19:40, December 16, 2012 (UTC)

Indeed, I'm all pro education, health care and Christian society :) And if it were up to me, the EU would be disbanded as quickly as technically possible, at least it won't be kept in its current form :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 08:42, December 17, 2012 (UTC)


 * ^and this is why I think you will be Prime Minister once again^ :) Personally my priorities are education, economy and the family :) Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 11:43, December 17, 2012 (UTC)
 * To be honest, I think everybody is pro education and health care :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 11:47, December 17, 2012 (UTC)
 * Most people are pro their opinion on issues too but I was assuming that what you meant is that your priorities are education, healthcare and Christian society. Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 11:53, December 17, 2012 (UTC)
 * Yes, it is :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 12:16, December 17, 2012 (UTC)
 * Without a healthy and informed/educated society, we really don't have much to build on. That's why both these things should be easily and freely available. HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 13:24, December 17, 2012 (UTC)
 * Yes, that's why the CNP are going to introduce a voucher system for schools so that Children can get the competitive education they need and why we are going to introduce a system by which healthcare is subsidised for people unable to pay. Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 16:13, December 17, 2012 (UTC)
 * Vouchers?! What U was thinking is for congress to introduce a uniform curriculum and have one public school in every major community. I don't know what voucher systems are, but I was going in a direction for more accessibility. HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 16:36, December 17, 2012 (UTC)
 * A uniform curriculum? not a good idea, Kings and Sylvania have much more specialised economies and specialised schools favour this. Then onto public schools, not a good idea, a grants and voucher system is the best, grants will allow people to set up schools and will be proportional to the size of school they are hoping to set up (this would allow for the distant communities in Sylvania to have small private schools in their area instead of being impossibly far away) and vouchers would mean that schools that get results can get money because parents will send their children there, each child will have a voucher and it will be worth an average years schooling. On top of this being cheaper in the end it'll also foster the competitive environment and allow for everyone to afford to go to private schools (which produce better results than public across the board) and will in my opinion be more accessible than a public school system. Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 16:52, December 17, 2012 (UTC)
 * The whole world functions on a public school system so it's a definite must. But at the same time we should have private schools with specialized programs. And what's wrong with a uniform curriculum? It sets good minimum standards to help all children get a good education. But if you're worried about private schools, they should be able to have different/additional subjects as well. We should try and acoomodate both. HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 17:25, December 17, 2012 (UTC)
 * Completely wrong on this point: The whole world functions on a public school system and the failure of these systems to compete with private education is a definite no to a fully public system. I'm all for that and I'm glad you recognise that. We already have a basic curriculum that sets minimum standards, what I'm worried about is that you seem to be suggested a system with less freedom for schools in in. And it's good that you would take that stance however private is the way to go. Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 17:49, December 17, 2012 (UTC)
 * (edc) I have to say, I'm a bit dubious competition in education can achieve the best results. Schools imo should be run by people whose ultimate aim is to educate rather than to make money for themselves. Plus we'll see that the schools that benefit will be those that can fool parents they are providing the best education, rather than those that actually do. --Semyon 17:30, December 17, 2012 (UTC)
 * In the UK (our native land) my elder brother went to a private secondary school (back in the good ol' days when we had money), he came out with the best grades and great work ethic, the rest of us went to public secondary school where they try to cram as many people in to get the most amount of money possible and try to get students to drop subjects they might not do fantastically in to ensure that they look nice on the league tables. I find that private competition, public competition or not at all, there will always be people trying to cheat the system. Besides we won't be making these vouchers of high enough worth for them to allow what Marcus might call 'fat cats' to try and use the system to just generate profit. Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 17:49, December 17, 2012 (UTC)

He rises again


Good question. --Semyon 17:21, December 17, 2012 (UTC)

Can you give me the source of where the following quotes were quotated. <font color="Teal"> Happy65  <font color="Aqua"> Talk CNP   17:28, December 17, 2012 (UTC)
 * (edc)I can, but you could do a Google search just as easily. Also, I'm a bit disappointed that you'd think I'd consider making them up. --Semyon 17:34, December 17, 2012 (UTC)


 * I don't think that. I just want to add to the conversations where they happened. <font color="Teal"> Happy65  <font color="Aqua"> Talk CNP  LogoCNP.png 17:39, December 17, 2012 (UTC)

Here's my quote: (His dressing does not affect his politics! Great work, Semyon!) <font color="Teal"> Happy65  <font color="Aqua"> Talk CNP   17:31, December 17, 2012 (UTC)
 * Haha, thanks. :P --Semyon 17:34, December 17, 2012 (UTC)

Lose the neck-beard and I'll think about it. :P Vivaporius says: "I don't need a slogan!" 18:38, December 17, 2012 (UTC)


 * Hm, George would probably need your vote more, since he is rather unknown and doesn't seem have been participating in politics much since the State elections. :P 77topaz (talk) 10:02, December 18, 2012 (UTC)
 * Well, I need your vote too. Just sayin' ;) There's a long tradition in Lovia that no-one ever votes for me. --Semyon 12:00, December 18, 2012 (UTC)

Haha. <font color="Teal"> Happy65  <font color="Aqua"> Talk CNP   19:34, December 17, 2012 (UTC)

Not really a neckbeard - that requires him only to have hair on his neck like Thoreau, but he has hair on other parts of his face too. I hope that this'll persuade you to reconsider your vote. ;) --Semyon 21:55, December 17, 2012 (UTC)

I'd support you over the CCPL, but unfortunately that's the best I can give you. :P 77topaz (talk) 10:02, December 18, 2012 (UTC)

Is that the quote you want me to put on my next poster? :P --Semyon 11:53, December 18, 2012 (UTC)

Next poster
I'm aware that this is the most absurd thing on have been posted on this wiki since I don't know when, and that it makes no sense at all, but oh well. --Semyon 12:12, December 18, 2012 (UTC) Lasovat that parti o' Bog!'' --Semyon 13:02, December 18, 2012 (UTC)
 * Mmm.. The "better than CCPL" campaign might cost you a minor vote :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 12:35, December 18, 2012 (UTC)
 * Wait until you see the next one é. In fact I think I might wait until you go offline before uploading it... :P --Semyon 12:40, December 18, 2012 (UTC)
 * On another topic: what's the Oceana word for brain, as in the organ? My guess is mozog as the Oceana page says 'category two contains almost exclusively Slovak words,' but I wasn't sure if some sort of pronunciation change was required. --Semyon 12:44, December 18, 2012 (UTC)
 * @waiting: haha, then I can still say it when I'm online again :P
 * @brain: On my wordlist either moze or mosque :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 12:49, December 18, 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks. Unfortunately, for my purpose mozog sounds a lot better so I'm going to stick with that I'm afraid. --Semyon 12:53, December 18, 2012 (UTC)
 * No problem, I'll add mozog as revival community Oceana :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 12:57, December 18, 2012 (UTC)
 * You don't happen to be rhyming it with Bog, are ye? :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 12:57, December 18, 2012 (UTC)
 * No actually - tho' the 'Oceana campaign poem' idea does sound promising. :P --Semyon 12:59, December 18, 2012 (UTC)
 * Hahahah :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 13:00, December 18, 2012 (UTC)
 * ''As thaf un beag mozog,
 * To be honest, it sounds awful :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 13:02, December 18, 2012 (UTC)
 * Were you expecting anything else? --Semyon 13:04, December 18, 2012 (UTC)
 * No, 'cause it's Oceana è :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 13:05, December 18, 2012 (UTC)


 * @OWTB: It won't just cost semyon's minor vote from you, you won't get your minor vote from semyon if you take away his minor vote. <font color="Teal"> Happy65  <font color="Aqua"> Talk CNP  LogoCNP.png 16:12, December 18, 2012 (UTC)


 * I'm going to make a great quote poster. Hopefully some people will say some good quotes to be featured. <font color="Teal"> Happy65  <font color="Aqua"> Talk CNP  LogoCNP.png 17:46, December 18, 2012 (UTC)
 * Hahaha, I think I could also start campaigning like "CCPL - better than Semyon - at least we've got a say in Congress" :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 09:52, December 19, 2012 (UTC)

I should have saved 'He rises again' for this section title...
* runs and hides* --Semyon 14:00, December 18, 2012 (UTC)
 * Okay... :P Is this meant to be positive or negative? :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 14:11, December 18, 2012 (UTC)


 * I'm afraid I don't vote for zombies. Sorry. <font color="Teal"> Happy65  <font color="Aqua"> Talk CNP  LogoCNP.png 16:05, December 18, 2012 (UTC)


 * So, I guess this is meant to be negative since Semyon clearly states runs and hides* <font color="Teal"> Happy65  <font color="Aqua"> Talk CNP  LogoCNP.png 19:51, December 19, 2012 (UTC)

I should probably clarify on the reason for this. I don't think Oos is a zombie, nor am I particularly anti-CCPL (fairly obvious è). Instead, I was just messing around, removed the background from the OWTB Wilders image, and suddenly saw potential in the aimlessly waving arms. I suppose it was a temptation I couldn't resist. Alternatively, you could say that after I made my pro-CCPL ad I had to make some contra ones too, otherwise I wouldn't be truly independent. :P --Semyon 22:38, December 19, 2012 (UTC)

This January...don't take a left turn.


Vote Right



Let's hope politicans on the right don't start putting up "don't turn left" signs in heavy traffic as a protest of turning left or something and everyone crashes into each other. Marcus/Michael Villanova01:10, December 19, 2012 (UTC) ^Imagining that chaos made my day. --Quarantine Zone (talk) 03:08, December 19, 2012 (UTC)

<My imagination of this. --Quarantine Zone (talk) 03:10, December 19, 2012 (UTC)
 * I guess they need some traffic lights there - vote CCPL, our nation's traffic lights! :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 09:53, December 19, 2012 (UTC)



The January...don't let others tell you how to vote. Make up your own mind and vote for the party who will work best for YOU (p.s. don't take a turn for the worse so choose center and left). HORTON11 : •  14:18, December 19, 2012 (UTC)


 * If you want to keep in line with the quote it should be "This January don't let Labour tell you how to live your life, dictate your healthcare, your children's education and the way you spend your hard earned money. Vote for the party that will let you make up your own mind and who will work with you to help you meet your goals, vote CNP." Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 15:32, December 19, 2012 (UTC)
 * Can't you take a joke. And by "vote for the party who will work best for YOU" I literally meant it. If CCPL, or SLP work best for you, vot them. And Labour won't tell people how to live, this is the same sort of crap rightistsalways say about the left. HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 15:42, December 19, 2012 (UTC)
 * I can, can you, my response was a joke too heavily rooted in fact. And I was simply giving my opinion on which party was best for people who wanted to be guaranteed their freedom to do what they want. And Labour very much does they don't like to cooperate unless they urgently need to and you also enjoy keeping ideas you don't agree with out of government. Also I'm not saying this about the left, the SLP guarantee a lot more freedoms than Labour and the worst thing about them is that they support a NHS and Sales taxes but their other views and their character relieve them of these subjective negatives and if leftists vote for a left party the SLP should be their first choice, I know that if I was one I would go to them. This is much more about an authoritarian attitude to economic and personal freedoms and a party wide authoritarian character. Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 19:48, December 19, 2012 (UTC)
 * Oh, wait. You forgot to mention what the leftists say to the rightists, mention that first. <font color="Teal"> Happy65  <font color="Aqua"> Talk CNP  LogoCNP.png 15:54, December 19, 2012 (UTC)
 * If you are really looking to be able to do what you want, you would vote libertarian...Which is right...--Quarantine Zone (talk) 02:24, December 20, 2012 (UTC)
 * I do look to do what I want, but I don't want to do anything illegal, so I'm not a libertarian. --Semyon 10:15, December 20, 2012 (UTC)

Message
I just want to say that Lovia a country and not a playground where dozens of parties sit together to interfere in the lives of citizens. I have therefore not a political plan to say what I do when I am Prime Minister, what is not going to happen, because I already know that these elections are failed. With fifteen participants, the Congress can not work. Those are just the main men. They each choose among their members (which is outrageous) and you get maybe fifteen parties! I repeat, you are black, Asian or white? Christian, atheist, Muslim or jew? Foreign-or unemployed? Rich or poor? I'm not asking to vote for me, but just to do what is right for you. And while you do not need all those politicians. Those who work together in order for you to make a good Lovia, no, they fight over who has the power, and have not really done much in recent years. Not that they are bad, not at all, but I just want to make it clear that you must live, enjoy every second  in your live. If you believe that I am talking nonsense or that I can not speak English, I do not matter. I did this just said. So I'm trying to make clear that we are not strong together, no, you just do what you want. That constitution that every day is adjusted by the politicians and you all know nothing about. It might sound weird and ridiculous, but I just wish this is all over in Lovia where everyone just makes war against each other instead of with his friends and family to be busy. Soon the holidays and if you believe it or not, I just want to say that you really should learn to enjoy! Thank you and I hope you understand my message!

Wabba The I (talk) 20:10, December 19, 2012 (UTC)


 * I understand and I commend you for your beliefs that the people come first and that you want peace in politics. I do not agree that a congress of fifteen participants cannot work but I do agree that those that choose to vote only within their members are being outrageous. Once again you show yourself to be someone I enjoy being involved with in politics though, and I hope we can work together in the coming year and in Bretherland should I ever revive it. Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 20:24, December 19, 2012 (UTC)
 * Yeah. Wabba The I (talk) 20:33, December 19, 2012 (UTC)
 * It'll be very hard to get Bretherland running again; once you lose interest there's often no returning. And Wabba, I get what you say but its a mentality thing that needs to change. For example, instead of launching attack ads and false tirades like some, we should focus on promoting what one's party has actually achieved. HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 21:05, December 19, 2012 (UTC)
 * Do not complain that I have attacked you for things which I consider to be untrue about your party which you claim to be otherwise, it is also interesting that you note attack ads, when your party was the first to issue one. Also if you want to look at what a party has achieved, then I can say that I and PL have worked together and are currently implementing a much needed reform and proper pay program for the Federal Police, we will also be implementing a tax plan and we have also worked with other parties on items that have been of interest to the general public. Name your achievements, please. Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 21:38, December 19, 2012 (UTC)
 * Don't take everything I say as a personal attack, ITS NOT; not every political comment has to become an argument! All sides have released attack adds, including Villanova with his Inactive congressmen thing. I'm just saying we need to stop with the tiresome American-style attack adds and change. People should be voted on what they have done for the country and not for outdoing the other in dirty politics. I plan to release a campaign on this style. Tbh all other adds have been "we'll promise to do this" or "they said this lie", not once have I seen a strightforward plan with what the person/party has actually done. HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 21:53, December 19, 2012 (UTC)
 * In my opinion, there are plenty of good/honest ads on this page already, so it's a bit surprising that you claim your ad will be something new. --Semyon 21:59, December 19, 2012 (UTC)
 * It's not the first new ad. I like yours a lot, and they add a bit of fun to politics. But I would like to do something where the claims are met by supporting points (nothing empty). We are heading down the road of American politics, and we know that congress is able to achieve very little/nothing due to the huge rifts, constant attacks and no compromise. HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 22:04, December 19, 2012 (UTC)
 * I think everyone is well-meaning, but sometimes people write things rashly and other people misinterpret them. --Semyon 22:16, December 19, 2012 (UTC)
 * Horton, the right and centre have cooperated greatly this year, perosnally I find that it is your party that has not. The only rift in congress is the one between the Labour party and the right, and even that isn't very big. Also I find that your claim that attack ads have been released by all parties a lie, the only serious attack ad has been released by your party and it flopped. Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 22:19, December 19, 2012 (UTC)
 * Don't forget my anti-CCPL ads. :P --Semyon 22:33, December 19, 2012 (UTC)
 * Yes but they've got a lot of humour in them, while I don't consider them serious, they still might be vote winners :L Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 22:35, December 19, 2012 (UTC)

I understand what you are saying Wabba (at least mostly) and I find it ironic that straightaway a debate/argument begins underneath your post. :) --Semyon 21:48, December 19, 2012 (UTC)

Nice speech, Wabba! However, I think the more people in Congress, the better it works. Also, to be fair, I think CNP did make the first attack ad with the "bridge to nowhere" half a year ago. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 23:39, December 19, 2012 (UTC)
 * It was you who started the whole idea about attack ads though remember. ;) besides I think that was a pretty clever ad, it would have been better had something been accomplished though. Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 23:48, December 19, 2012 (UTC)

I much enjoyed your speech Wabba. If this is how you feel also then you definitely have my support! :) — <font color=#2E6FFD>Christopher Costello (<font color=#2E6FFD>Pikapi • <font color=#2E6FFD>Chat  • <font color=#2E6FFD>What's up ) 00:07, December 20, 2012 (UTC)


 * I think that in all reality, we just need a prime minister and speaker of congress that can get congress to collectively bargain. Agreement is key, both sides have to give up something to get things done. If that means that some want a progressive tax and others a flat then we would have to have a slightly progressive tax, or if one side wants a beveridge model healthcare system and the other wants bismarck then, we could mix them have a unique system. We need a good politician, not a far rightist or leftist, but someone who can get Congress to work. (I would not be good, because of this.) --Quarantine Zone (talk) 02:30, December 20, 2012 (UTC)
 * I think you're using "collectively bargain" incorrectly, but wth. Anyway, the main problem that we can't get things passed is just inactivity (or abandoning discussions after getting bored), not bickering. We're pretty good with compromising. It'd be good to give it a shot, though. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 03:42, December 20, 2012 (UTC)
 * Well, collective bargaining is usually between employers and employees I guess... I was attempting to infer a compromise that benefits both sides to some degree. --Quarantine Zone (talk) 03:46, December 20, 2012 (UTC)

--Wabba The I (talk) 09:57, December 20, 2012 (UTC)

This January, vote for agreement
As I said in the thread above (Message), we need a congress that can agree through collective bargaining and compromise, so this January vote for a politician that can get a country moving and move the country forward. --Quarantine Zone (talk) 02:35, December 20, 2012 (UTC)

That sounds kind of like Kunarian's slogan. :P 77topaz (talk) 05:26, December 20, 2012 (UTC)


 * Yeah, be careful there, I spent sleepless nights creating my slogan. Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 07:36, December 20, 2012 (UTC)


 * :P <font color="Teal"> Happy65  <font color="Aqua"> Talk CNP  LogoCNP.png 07:38, December 20, 2012 (UTC)


 * I'd support this. --X572083x (talk) 22:42, December 29, 2012 (UTC)

A nice cuppa with Mr. Breyev


Nice and you know that I want to vote but ... euh. --Wabba The I (talk) 13:26, January 1, 2013 (UTC)
 * Sorry that you don't like tea Wabba. :P --Semyon 13:46, January 1, 2013 (UTC)

Who's planning to increase the price of a cuppa?! find them and lock them away! :L But seriously you can't buy tea if you haven't got the money to spare, only the CNP promises to ensure a tax exclusion for the poorest to ensure that there's enough money to make the kettle boil! VOTE CNP! ;D Hoffmann Kunarian TALK 13:31, January 1, 2013 (UTC)

We should remove sales taxes from tea... --Quarantine Zone (talk) 02:41, January 2, 2013 (UTC)

Vote Positive Lovia!
--The Positive Lovia election authorities.

Hmmm. <font color="Teal"> Happy65  <font color="Aqua"> Talk CNP   13:53, January 1, 2013 (UTC)


 * Yay! This looks great, thanks Semyon! — <font color=#2E6FFD>Christopher Costello (<font color=#2E6FFD>Pikapi • <font color=#2E6FFD>Chat  • <font color=#2E6FFD>What's up ) 16:31, January 1, 2013 (UTC)

Flat taxes! --Quarantine Zone (talk) 02:39, January 2, 2013 (UTC)

This really looks like if it's coming from the Jehovas :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 11:59, January 2, 2013 (UTC)

We'll Help Keep It Alight - Vote CNP, Hoffmann, Leskromento


Vote CNP. Hoffmann Kunarian TALK 14:32, January 1, 2013 (UTC)

(finish kunarian's sentence) .... if you want things moving again <font color="Teal"> Happy65  <font color="Aqua"> Talk CNP   14:37, January 1, 2013 (UTC)

I really like this poster and the idea behind it, it's probably the best one yet. Only problem... I doubt tungsten is mined in Oceana. :P --Semyon 14:41, January 1, 2013 (UTC)
 * But copper probably is! :D Understand I had to short hand certain parts. I'm glad you like the poster though. Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 14:44, January 1, 2013 (UTC)


 * It is. Come and spare a vote for me or Lukas! <font color="Teal"> Happy65  <font color="Aqua"> Talk CNP  LogoCNP.png 14:42, January 1, 2013 (UTC)


 * I will but a coalition or something with CCPL and CNP is very good also! Wabba The I (talk) 16:25, January 1, 2013 (UTC)


 * Yeah, support TAE guys. We help lower your electricity bills! The best way to do that is bote CDP! --Quarantine Zone (talk) 02:39, January 2, 2013 (UTC)
 * "Boting CDP"? Now's that's something I haven't heard of before. ;) 77topaz (talk) 04:31, January 2, 2013 (UTC)


 * Vote CNP for a secure lit lovia, extremely low taxes and 1001 other reasons. <font color="Teal"> Happy65  <font color="Aqua"> Talk CNP LogoCNP.png 07:13, January 2, 2013 (UTC)

To anyone who is confused about who they should vote for... Let's vote for cheaper tea. The tea prices have sky rocketed, and they need to be lowered. Vote for no tea tax! Vote for Semyon Breyev: Lovia's solution for cheaper tea.


 * Everyone vote Oos Wes Ilava, Jutin Abrahams and WIlliam Krobsy, the most honest leaders in the elections.MMunson (talk) 16:17, January 2, 2013 (UTC)


 * Justin Abrahams isn't a party leader. <font color="Teal"> Happy65  <font color="Aqua"> Talk CNP  LogoCNP.png 16:18, January 2, 2013 (UTC)
 * Sorry, i didn't know, but i meant for leadership qualities and stuff like that.MMunson (talk) 16:42, January 2, 2013 (UTC)


 * Ah right. <font color="Teal"> Happy65  <font color="Aqua"> Talk CNP LogoCNP.png 16:43, January 2, 2013 (UTC)

Coalition
In the last few governments including mine, we've no clear majority and that's due to porportional representation but we need a strong government with leadership. Will any party be open to a coalition, left, centrist, independents, even center-right? Let's have an actual coalition which can have a strong 30-40 seat voting block and move some legislation through. Anyone interested? Marcus/Michael Villanova 22:06, January 11, 2013 (UTC)

Well, I would guess that Labour would not be in government if we did this, so :P. I like the current grand coalition system - nine tenths of everyone is in government instead of half of everyone. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 22:25, January 11, 2013 (UTC)

^ YES ^ as we've always been saying, inclusion is the future and for Lovia thank god it is also the now. We should of course have a central government coalition with set aims, this way I think we could have a better focus, however this would at most mean that we give coalition members positions in government ministerial seats important to accomplishing these aims. Hoffmann Kunarian TALK 22:32, January 11, 2013 (UTC)

I'm not for the current 100% government, basically it's like we look around at each other saying "is he in charge" hoping for someone to make a move and since we go in with just party votes (10-20) it fails with about 30%. A smaller, 50-60% coalition helps speed things along and allow for larger input but also results in legislation. Marcus/Michael Villanova 23:36, January 11, 2013 (UTC)

Hardly Marcus. Lots of things get passed, big issues normally pass or fail by a close amount and vital issues are debated on thoroughly. Making a coalition of 50-60% with a firmly set group of issues and what they're going to do on them is like saying to 40-50% of the people "Your views don't matter, better luck next time" which really shouldn't be what we should say (and more over you'll never get anyone to agree cast iron with you). The idea should be to reach consensus. Preferably amongst all parties, no matter how big or small. This doesn't have to be about group 1 vs group 2, although I know you're set in that idea. We can co-operate and produce a better Lovia together. Hoffmann Kunarian TALK 00:24, January 12, 2013 (UTC)

On the first point it's fine in theory, but has not worked. There's a list I assembled around october (can't find it, it's somewhere on this wiki) that we passed about 10-15 laws. Not bad, not good. And more were revisions and minor laws. THings that don't combact major social and economic issues but things on population and census taking. We need a majority, i'm pretty sure election law dictates it. Again, I feel like I here this from those on the right but it's this sort of utopia sort of society, it'd be wonderful to work together and i scinerley hope we do but we need a responsible, accountable government. And due to the ammount of parties and people it won't be 1v.2, (Think), it'll be more like 1(1+4+5)vs.2(2+3) v 6 maybe. Marcus/Michael Villanova 01:00, January 12, 2013 (UTC)

That's largely because the new Congress was disorganised, this year will most certainly be different and besides election law does not dictate it. It would be wrong to demand that a government form to ignore at least 49% of the people in my opinion, despite what others may say. Hearing it from the right?! you have the SLP and the CNP and CCPL all saying that working together and including people is the right way to go, the SLP are left and the CCPL are practically the uber centrists and you have the CNP on the right. Most of us want to work together and believe we can truly do that, do you? I'd hope so. Hoffmann Kunarian TALK 01:11, January 12, 2013 (UTC)

But it got us 15 bills/revisions or even less with a ghost government. It's a different story when you have a government, regardless of ideology, with a clear majority. You proved a point, Lovia is a complex /mixed political arena, but having a government with a 50%+ majority allows for the ideas of those parties to form a bill and get it passed, whereas we have currently, that we throw a bill into the pit and hope it gains approval. Marcus/Michael Villanova 01:36, January 12, 2013 (UTC)

You act as if a true majority government can be formed with a central ideology from the left, right or center. Look at my post below this one, we'll work out a central government there with 6 central aims, then make sure that everyone has their say on any other issues that come up through out the year via a system of inclusion not exclusion. Hoffmann Kunarian TALK 01:44, January 12, 2013 (UTC)

It is not wanting those out of the majority or those out. And I am saying we need a ideology or place on the ideological scale and we can get those out of the larger parties elected by the people. I think it's a diservice to the people that elect us when we say "thanks for electing 20 CNP and 20 LP" but instead of them working together like the people said, we just do nothing or try to please everyone and get nothing, which is an example of the 15 laws/revisions from last congress. Marcus/Michael Villanova 01:57, January 12, 2013 (UTC)

I will say again look at my post below. We do not need to place an ideology and exclude people simply agree on where we shall progress. Continuing to support such divides that were supported last year will not stand. We must be for the nation and the people now, and not be for our parties own interests. Hoffmann Kunarian TALK 02:01, January 12, 2013 (UTC)

Time to forge ahead!
'''Friends, Lovians, Countrymen! Lend me your ears!'''

While Mark Anthony I am not, I have to make a motion that will carve and shape the very face of Lovia for the next year. I wish to propose to you all a set of objectives for the coming government. When we can forge a central government, that holds 50+% of the seats, based around filling the tasks these objectives pose we will also ensure that we run the policy of inclusion and make sure that other parties are involved.

Set of objectives for the coming government:


 * Devolving powers to the State Level.
 * - Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 01:04, January 12, 2013 (UTC)
 * --Quarantine Zone (talk) 01:17, January 12, 2013 (UTC)
 * —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 01:21, January 12, 2013 (UTC)
 * Granero (talk) 01:39, January 12, 2013 (UTC)
 * --O u WTBsjrief-mich 09:36, January 12, 2013 (UTC)
 * <font color="Teal"> Happy65  <font color="Aqua"> Talk CNP  LogoCNP.png 09:47, January 12, 2013 (UTC)
 * Wabba The I (talk) 10:42, January 12, 2013 (UTC)
 * Marcus/Michael Villanova 16:44, January 12, 2013 (UTC)
 * depends on which powers. HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 17:31, January 12, 2013 (UTC)
 * as per Horton. --Semyon 17:11, April 2, 2013 (UTC)
 * Cancel the pegging of the Lovian dollar from the US dollar.
 * - Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 01:04, January 12, 2013 (UTC)
 * --Quarantine Zone (talk) 01:17, January 12, 2013 (UTC)
 * —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 01:21, January 12, 2013 (UTC)
 * Granero (talk) 01:39, January 12, 2013 (UTC)
 * --O u WTBsjrief-mich 09:36, January 12, 2013 (UTC)
 * Wabba The I (talk) 10:42, January 12, 2013 (UTC)
 * 77topaz (talk) 10:48, January 12, 2013 (UTC)
 * Marcus/Michael Villanova 16:44, January 12, 2013 (UTC)
 * Not a bad idea, but who's going to update our exchange rates? HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 17:31, January 12, 2013 (UTC)
 * but it probably makes economic sense when the economy's not doing well.
 * Expanding trade links with other nations.
 * - Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 01:04, January 12, 2013 (UTC)
 * --Quarantine Zone (talk) 01:17, January 12, 2013 (UTC)
 * —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 01:21, January 12, 2013 (UTC)
 * Granero (talk) 01:39, January 12, 2013 (UTC)
 * --O u WTBsjrief-mich 09:36, January 12, 2013 (UTC)
 * Wabba The I (talk) 10:42, January 12, 2013 (UTC)
 * <font color="Teal"> Happy65  <font color="Aqua"> Talk CNP  LogoCNP.png 10:45, January 12, 2013 (UTC)
 * 77topaz (talk) 10:48, January 12, 2013 (UTC)
 * Marcus/Michael Villanova 16:44, January 12, 2013 (UTC)
 * A must. HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 17:31, January 12, 2013 (UTC)
 * , obviously. --Semyon 17:11, April 2, 2013 (UTC)
 * Establishing a national insurance healthcare system.
 * - Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 01:04, January 12, 2013 (UTC)
 * This depends on the plan. I only support Bismarck Model--Quarantine Zone (talk) 01:17, January 12, 2013 (UTC)
 * This depends on the plan. I prefer a model similar to the system used for education. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 01:21, January 12, 2013 (UTC)
 * Yes, but a system like Canada, Great Britain, France. Granero (talk) 01:40, January 12, 2013 (UTC).
 * --O u WTBsjrief-mich 09:36, January 12, 2013 (UTC)
 * Wabba The I (talk) 10:42, January 12, 2013 (UTC)
 * Someone who lives in a non-univeral healthcare country and has scoloiosis, heart defect, stroke prone (stroke at age 15) and weak immune system, I find it unhumane not to have it. Marcus/Michael Villanova 16:44, January 12, 2013 (UTC)
 * I agree with Granero and Marcus for universal healthcare. HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 17:31, January 12, 2013 (UTC)
 * --Semyon 17:11, April 2, 2013 (UTC)
 * Establishing a school voucher system.
 * - Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 01:04, January 12, 2013 (UTC)
 * --Quarantine Zone (talk) 01:17, January 12, 2013 (UTC)
 * —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 01:21, January 12, 2013 (UTC)
 * Schools have to be publically and free to every child
 * I don't really understand the school voucher system. Perhaps what I'm saying is the same, but I aim for equal education. The costs of state-run schools should be payed, also to f.e. religious schools. Any extra pizes should not be payed out. Of course, special needs education should get a separate funding. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 09:40, January 12, 2013 (UTC)
 * Wabba The I (talk) 10:42, January 12, 2013 (UTC)
 * Marcus/Michael Villanova 16:44, January 12, 2013 (UTC)
 * Like Oos and the comment above him, we need children to get equal and free access. HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 17:31, January 12, 2013 (UTC)
 * --Semyon 17:11, April 2, 2013 (UTC)
 * Establish a proper Commercial Law Book to regulate the economy.
 * - Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 01:04, January 12, 2013 (UTC)
 * Not too much...--Quarantine Zone (talk) 01:17, January 12, 2013 (UTC)
 * —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 01:21, January 12, 2013 (UTC)
 * --O u WTBsjrief-mich 09:36, January 12, 2013 (UTC)
 * Wabba The I (talk) 10:42, January 12, 2013 (UTC)
 * Also include current tax rates, regulations, the budget, financial matters. Marcus/Michael Villanova 16:44, January 12, 2013 (UTC)
 * HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 17:31, January 12, 2013 (UTC)
 * --Semyon 17:11, April 2, 2013 (UTC)
 * Legalise religious education that meets standards.
 * - Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 01:04, January 12, 2013 (UTC)
 * --Quarantine Zone (talk) 01:17, January 12, 2013 (UTC)
 * —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 01:21, January 12, 2013 (UTC)
 * Granero (talk) 01:39, January 12, 2013 (UTC)
 * --O u WTBsjrief-mich 09:36, January 12, 2013 (UTC)
 * Wabba The I (talk) 10:42, January 12, 2013 (UTC)
 * 77topaz (talk) 10:48, January 12, 2013 (UTC)
 * As long as proper sciences are also tought (perhaps we need a basic national/state curriculum) HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 17:31, January 12, 2013 (UTC)
 * Marcus/Michael Villanova 21:04, January 12, 2013 (UTC)
 * --Semyon 17:11, April 2, 2013 (UTC)
 * Establish a Swiss style military for self defence.
 * - Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 01:04, January 12, 2013 (UTC)
 * --Quarantine Zone (talk) 01:17, January 12, 2013 (UTC)
 * Switzerland has sexist conscription for a military that does nothing. Useless. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 01:21, January 12, 2013 (UTC)
 * We can get a self defense force like the United State's national guard to be active in disasters and catastrophies. Granero (talk)
 * --O u WTBsjrief-mich 09:36, January 12, 2013 (UTC)
 * Wabba The I (talk) 10:42, January 12, 2013 (UTC)
 * 77topaz (talk) 10:48, January 12, 2013 (UTC)
 * Marcus/Michael Villanova 16:44, January 12, 2013 (UTC)
 * We don't need a military, just a more general self-defense and DR unit. HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 17:31, January 12, 2013 (UTC)
 * a military, the Swiss-style bit. --Semyon 17:11, April 2, 2013 (UTC)
 * Support gun rights however review loose law.
 * - Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 01:04, January 12, 2013 (UTC)
 * Fire Arms Act Revision!--Quarantine Zone (talk) 01:17, January 12, 2013 (UTC)
 * Not a huge supporter of guns, but the current law is too strict. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 01:21, January 12, 2013 (UTC)
 * There has to be good control, after the school shooters in California and Newton we need better control and prohibite assault rifles, machine guns, heavy guns. Granero (talk) 01:39, January 12, 2013 (UTC)
 * --O u WTBsjrief-mich 09:36, January 12, 2013 (UTC)
 * Wabba The I (talk) 10:42, January 12, 2013 (UTC)
 * 77topaz (talk) 10:48, January 12, 2013 (UTC)
 * No guns. Marcus/Michael Villanova 16:44, January 12, 2013 (UTC)
 * Depends on how we do it. We should allow some ownership, esp. for hunters but we don't need to go as far as the U.S. HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 17:31, January 12, 2013 (UTC)
 * reform of current law, but lots of gun rights. --Semyon 17:11, April 2, 2013 (UTC)
 * Establish a limited immigration system.
 * - Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 01:04, January 12, 2013 (UTC)
 * --Quarantine Zone (talk) 01:17, January 12, 2013 (UTC)
 * Make a law. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 01:21, January 12, 2013 (UTC)
 * Granero (talk) 01:39, January 12, 2013 (UTC)
 * --O u WTBsjrief-mich 09:36, January 12, 2013 (UTC)
 * Wabba The I (talk) 10:42, January 12, 2013 (UTC)
 * 77topaz (talk) 10:48, January 12, 2013 (UTC)
 * (We already did this on my sidepage) Marcus/Michael Villanova 16:44, January 12, 2013 (UTC)
 * But not too closed, though. HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 17:31, January 12, 2013 (UTC)
 * , but fairly liberal. We do need control though. --Semyon 17:11, April 2, 2013 (UTC)
 * Establish basic animal rights legislation.
 * - Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 01:04, January 12, 2013 (UTC)
 * Let's not put animals before humans though--Quarantine Zone (talk) 01:17, January 12, 2013 (UTC)
 * —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 01:21, January 12, 2013 (UTC)
 * Granero (talk) 01:39, January 12, 2013 (UTC)
 * --O u WTBsjrief-mich 09:36, January 12, 2013 (UTC)
 * Wabba The I (talk) 10:42, January 12, 2013 (UTC)
 * 77topaz (talk) 10:48, January 12, 2013 (UTC)
 * (in response to QZ and for support of the Porcine Party) Pigs full citizenship Marcus/Michael Villanova 16:44, January 12, 2013 (UTC)
 * But shouldn't we get an animal rights group to do this? HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 17:31, January 12, 2013 (UTC)
 * , don't personally think it's a priority though. --Semyon 17:11, April 2, 2013 (UTC)
 * Establish a new marriage law.
 * I think most of us would like to make polygamy, incest, and bestiality illegal... --Quarantine Zone (talk) 01:17, January 12, 2013 (UTC)
 * Already says "person". Also, victimless crimes shouldn't be crimes (well, polygamy shouldn't be allowed, but. . .). —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 01:21, January 12, 2013 (UTC)
 * very much on the fence, more debate is needed before I could reach a conclusion. Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 01:24, January 12, 2013 (UTC)
 * --O u WTBsjrief-mich 09:36, January 12, 2013 (UTC)
 * Wabba The I (talk) 10:42, January 12, 2013 (UTC)
 * 77topaz (talk) 10:48, January 12, 2013 (UTC)
 * No more vauge language, make the law clear. Everyone can get married regardless of gender. Marcus/Michael Villanova 16:44, January 12, 2013 (UTC)
 * --Semyon 17:11, April 2, 2013 (UTC)

Discuss
I understand not everyone will agree but I think it'll be the first step forwards towards making a government with tangible aims this year. I think we should aim for 6 main objectives, ones that we have a large consensus on. If you want to add an objective go ahead however they must be simple and concise, no misting up your words. :) Hoffmann Kunarian TALK 01:04, January 12, 2013 (UTC)

Oh and when I say Swiss style military, I do not mean use men as cannon fodder I mean a reserve military that is purely for self defence and stability. Hoffmann Kunarian TALK 01:23, January 12, 2013 (UTC)


 * I know, but the Swiss example is bad. Too large of a military, all and only men are conscripted (*rages*) and only used for, as you said, self defense and stability. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 01:47, January 12, 2013 (UTC)


 * Maybe we should consider the alternative to be a national guard system, where specialised reservists can be called upon in times of great need. Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 01:50, January 12, 2013 (UTC)

There is not a Central Bank and we should get one. Granero (talk) 01:46, January 12, 2013 (UTC)

Add it in as an issue, personally I will not support it but the whole idea here is to put forth your points for the next government to push through. Hoffmann Kunarian TALK 01:50, January 12, 2013 (UTC)

If you want to remove the peg with the U.S. dollar, it's necessart to get a Central Bank.Every country has it. Granero (talk) 02:02, January 12, 2013 (UTC)


 * Not every country does actually and it's not required at all, our monetary policy can be carried out by the Ministry of Finance besides that way we as a congress have more control over it, a central bank would require assigning a singular person almost complete control. Besides there's nothing that proves central banks have done any good except for, you guessed it, bankers. In fact I'd say I support a limited free banking system. Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 02:09, January 12, 2013 (UTC)

I'll be happy to fully explain the school voucher system, I can't now but I will after I'm finished doing what I am doing. Hoffmann Kunarian TALK 10:25, January 12, 2013 (UTC)
 * Okay, I'd appreciate it :) --O u WTBsjrief-mich 13:05, January 12, 2013 (UTC)
 * School voucher system is a way of funding education, nothing more, nothing less. It would work by basically giving parents a subsidy for their child to receive education at any school (or at home). To go into further detail: We would set an amount of money that would be given for each child (with extra money for child with special needs and such), this amount would be based on the current cost per child in the education system. Parents would then be allowed to choose where their child could go and if we put regulation in to stop schools from forcing extra charges (aka abusing the system) then there's completely equal access and people are not forced to send their child somewhere just because it costs less.
 * The pros of the system are:
 * Completely equal access for all types of education
 * Completely free access for all types of education
 * Allows parents a real choice for their child
 * Lessens the rich/poor divide significantly
 * Encourages quality and reliability in producing results
 * Works perfectly with our current education system
 * The system also works well when combined with support for school start-ups. Say that a settlement in the west of Sylvania has no school but several students who have to travel a long distance to get to a school because their parents don't have the money to pay for other types of education, under this system a local (or budding entrepreneur :L) who is qualified to teach can get a start up grant for a school there and then due to the vouchers can easily sustain this school as the parents aren't having to fork out a load of cash to keep everything going. Even without the start up their parents could collectively pay for a tutor to teach them all locally. So you can see that it also solves problems that other systems have to go out of their way to address.
 * I hope you'd agree this is probably the best way to fund our schooling. Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 18:21, January 12, 2013 (UTC)
 * I understand this system, as it's sort of the same as my proposed system, but I see some trouble in the local tutoring. I'm especially concerned about the social skills of children who don't go to a bigger school, if you understand what I mean. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 09:57, January 13, 2013 (UTC)
 * Sometimes you can't do anything about a situation, few children (the ones who live in the remote parts of Lovia) will benefit from this system and be able to get a small local school or tutoring, most children living in built up settlements like Noble City, Hurbanova and New Haven will go to large schools locally. I understand what you mean but most parents will send their children to schools and the small amount that will choose home tutoring will have the responsibility as parents to give their child social skills. Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 10:46, January 13, 2013 (UTC)
 * Mmm.. I've got some serious doubts though. I'm thinking that an optional semi-internship (from Monday-Friday) might be a better option. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 10:51, January 13, 2013 (UTC)
 * Where are your doubts? I can address them very easily I can assure you. Optional semi-internship? how would that work or be better? Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 13:24, January 13, 2013 (UTC)
 * My main concern is that the children are raised in an environment which is too closed. They will not look further than their five people hamlet.
 * Optional semi-internship would work because the children will still be able to be close to the families and get full life skills. Though it has the downside that children will meet their parents less during the week. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 15:52, January 13, 2013 (UTC)
 * It's hard to avoid that in a hamlet anyways, especially at a young age where our main aim with education should be to prepare them for later education and life or to do their focused education of choice. However your semi-internship idea (which I assume would be like apprenticeships) could work out well for later education options. A combined system would work maybe? Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 16:19, January 13, 2013 (UTC)
 * Yeah, a combined system would probably be best :) Or we could let special buses drive to the hamlets to pick the children up. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 16:27, January 13, 2013 (UTC)
 * It would be better to use buses. But shouldn't we first set up and coordinate a school system and ensure all (if not most major settlements have one) before going into the funding. HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 16:33, January 13, 2013 (UTC)
 * @Oos: Combined system it should be then. :) For children far out we could give special extra money to the school to arrange transport for them, whether it be buses or taxis (I've had taxis arranged before to go to a school).
 * @Horton: What is best is to maximise choice really. And we don't need to organise a school system, we already have most of the stuff we need in place, they made need changing but they are there. Also my school start-up grants system and the school vouchers will ensure that every major settlement will have one. As I always say, the private sector will fill the gap if government points them in the right direction (start-up grants). Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 16:41, January 13, 2013 (UTC)
 * Besides I think it's largely up to Governors to ensure schools are built, under my system and with a proper tax system Governors can choose whether to rely on grants or whether to use taxes to built state schools. Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 16:43, January 13, 2013 (UTC)
 * I still don't think vouchers are necessary. I think everything you have mentioned on vouchers works without them too and I think a better solution is to use grants to fund new schools and existing programs/necessities. To parents we can give tax exemptions/reductions for special-needs children and we can also offer grants/partial funding to daycares to allow parents to send their children for a reasonable fee. HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 17:02, January 13, 2013 (UTC)

Reset.

Well fortunately you are wrong. Under your ideas only state education would be free (destroying the idea of completely equal and free access) and it would be populated by the poor and lower middle class as it is in England while private education would be populated by those who could pay middle and upper class, ensuring a rich poor divide. Also the schools need money to educate the children not the parents, tax exemptions for them on the basis that they have a special needs child would not help the school cover costs at all (or would you make it so that schools could force money from parents if their child has special needs? in which case I'm out). Daycares might be a good idea.

Under mine and Oos's idea the rich poor divide is gone, schools get direct funding to help out special needs children and equal and free access in ensured for all. Hoffmann Kunarian TALK 17:31, January 13, 2013 (UTC)


 * "Only state education would be free": well yeah, cause one generally has to pay for private schools (what's your position on private schools though). In the other sense of free, schools should be open to everyone and it should be of a good enough level to ensure that people of any income class can study there together. Like I proposed, we should just be using grants to cover schools costs (I think we are on two sides of the same coin, just certain terms have been misinterpreted, that's all). And keep in mind that special needs children need more support and it would be of great benefit to the parents to help reveive their costs (not just educational). Now what are your ideas on daycare: free and fully-funded, partially-funded or full-cost? HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 17:59, January 13, 2013 (UTC)
 * The whole point of the voucher system is for private schools. Private schools can offer different education or specific education to children. Public schools typically all fall into a certain level of standards and they are religiously neutral, where as private schools often don't have to follow the same criteria, and may offer religious affiliation. Some families want to send their kids to private schools, but they can't afford it. (It is rather costly, as the teachers are payed by tuition from students, fundraisers, and donations rather than taxes.) Thus, the vouchers give money to families who wish to send their kids to private schools, but can't afford it. --Quarantine Zone (talk) 18:06, January 13, 2013 (UTC)
 * Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, finally a good explanation. We should encourage people to sent their kids to public schools, but vouchers would be great for private schools if parents really want to send their children to them. As long as we don't implement them for public schools (unnecessary) I wouldn't have a problem (but will need to see a detailed plan). HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 18:12, January 13, 2013 (UTC)
 * But why should people be more closed in their choices just because they are poor? under your only state schools are free system this would be the case, while under my voucher system you can choose the school best for you without concerns. Also your idea of free is much less free than mine, as I eliminate the worries of being able to pay whereas you do not. It would be good if we agreed on grants to start up schools. And I am a special needs child, I know support is needed however only in extreme cases do you need to do anything, this should be via a disadvantaged person tax relief (lowers the tax they have to pay) for the parents or guardians until they start earning and then they get the tax relief. It should really be full costs paid, most problems with parents being able to earn and support their child come from not being able to pay for daycare so that they can go out and work.
 * Added: I'm glad you see what I'm saying more now. However as a government we should encourage parents to simply choose the best school for their child, state, public or private. Also when you implement them you normally implement them for all schools, as they take over the standard way of funding and give a better allocation of resources. Unless you have a particular problem why state schools shouldn't be a part of this system then I don't see why it shouldn't be done this way. Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 18:23, January 13, 2013 (UTC)
 * State schools are free, so parents don't have to pay large costs therefore eliminating the need of a voucher to help pay for costs. In regards to your first point, we do have some free provate schools First Schools of Lovia, I think. Parents must have the choice of which school to send their children to, but if we make public schools of a good enough standard it will be better. Something I have in mind is to make all publoic schools broad while making private ones more specialized, such as religious, arts, technical, to better maximize the effectiveness of our schools. Im also pro on fully-funded daycare, so we should pass an act. HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 18:31, January 13, 2013 (UTC)
 * Vouchers are simply a different and less bureaucratic way of covering costs and can replace how we fund state schools now. We do we have many of them as well as other private institutions. Also don't understand the point on state schools, having generally better education, state, public or private I imagine is the best way to go. On your idea, I think that would be bad but I can understand why you think it would be good and to a degree I agree. If we allow state, public and private to specialise or not as they please and provide broad curriculum state schools or support start-ups for broad curriculum private schools where needed then we can ensure a choice between broad and specialised. And we should most definitely pass an act on daycare, it'll be good for left and right to shake hands here. Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 19:20, January 13, 2013 (UTC)

(Reset) The idea of public/state schools is that everyone receives education by paying taxes. The schools are funded by the government through taxes. A large portion of populations go to public schools, as people do not wish to pay extra money for private schools; however, some families want their kids to receive advanced education. These families send their kids to private schools. Some families cannot afford the extra cost of private schools; thus, they need vouchers to assist them in paying for the cost of tuition. You may be saying, "Why can't public schools give advanced education?" The reason they can't is that the amount of children at public schools are too large. Some kids struggle more in schools than others, and teachers have too many kids to deal with large sums of individuals struggling. In private schools, there are fewer kids (in America 89% of the population goes to public school, so public schools have more than 8 times as many kids as private schools!) With fewer kids, teachers are able to assist students' individual problems very effectively, so kids who struggle are still able to do well in private schools. @Kunarian: The idea of broad choice in public school still poses the problem religion in school. Public schools can't teach religion, so the private schools are still needed. Also, this could make some students feel awkward, e.g. me. If I were in a public school with broad choice, I would have been with kids who were on average 3-4 years older than me, and some would be with kids who were 3-4 years younger on average. --Quarantine Zone (talk) 21:03, January 13, 2013 (UTC)

@Marcus on health insurance. My ex had all of those things, except the stroke prone, but she also had anemia and was prone to normal migraines and intestinal migraines. --Quarantine Zone (talk) 17:28, January 12, 2013 (UTC)

For the voucher system, I'm assuming the extra money would be by request, and people would have to meet certain criteria. We don't want people to be taking government money for unneeded vouchers. We could put a limit on how much money you can make and still receive vouchers, and maybe have some exceptions to fix loopholes. I like the idea of starting one for sure. I'm all for better education. I went to a private school from pre-school-8th grade. --Quarantine Zone (talk) 21:08, January 12, 2013 (UTC)
 * Yes of course, there would be criteria. Also the limit is a um and ar idea, someone could be making a lot of money but due to where they live have a lot less, in the end we'd probably set it so high it wouldn't matter to anyone, there'd be so few rich children it would barely change costs and would just be for show really I feel. And don't worry loopholes will be filled as soon as they are seen. I'm glad you're on side here though. Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 22:08, January 12, 2013 (UTC)

A new era approaches, a New King is in town
I was very clear about my ultimatum. Our king, Dimitri, first of his name, is to leave the royal palace on the First of May. He is to renounce his claims to the throne and enter the life of an average, normal, everyday citizen. He will be treated no better or no worse then anyone else. His life is safe and he will not be harmed. Whatever he chooses to do. But is he not out of the Palace by tomorrow, he will be kicked out of it. Or rather, escorted out by my Brigadiers. A new era has begun, my friends. A new dynasty started. From tomorrow onwards, the Royal Family will be consisting of members of my family. Our official residence from this day forward shall be the Royal Palace of Noble City.

We will hold power nor influence. Our role will be sorely one of peace and quiet. The order will be maintained, democracy respected. But we will have the common decency to show ourselves, to give speeches, to attend public events and be there for the people of Lovia. We will not hide in our expensive cars and kitchens, take refuge in our libraries and spend our days reading books like the feebleminded, weak and lazy King Dimitri and his family of worthless proletarian swines. We will be there for you, work for you, the Lovian man in the street, the housewife, the police officer, the teacher, the priest. We will be there for you.

We will not forsake our duties the way the Royal Family has done. Our empire will last a thousend years, but only if the voter will have it so. Stability, justice and kindness will be brought to this island. To every branch of every tree, to every harbour and every village. From the Far North to the Deep South, and beyond. Peace will ring, tolerance will rule. This is my promise to you, the people of Lovia.

Good luck and peace be upon you.

Godspeed,


 * The glorious First Consul of Rome (talk)

I don't see how "stability, justice and kindness" weren't already here. Plus, you've probably lessened the stability of Lovia with your coup, and your offer of support to Burenia's invasion (a king helping someone invade his own country?). :P 77topaz (talk) 21:37, April 30, 2013 (UTC)
 * I will simply use the Burenians to get what is my God-given right by the grace of the Lord, my dear. The Burenians understand this. We will work this deal out for our mutual benefit. Not a single Lovian will be harmed, not a drop of blood will be spilled, lest nobody stand inbetween me and my the crown that is rightfully mine. The glorious First Consul of Rome (talk) 21:42, April 30, 2013 (UTC)
 * As a nationalist, the Burenians are in no place to make any decisions for the Lovian people by force or by other means. Lovians and Lovians alone shall decide our course, for our blood is the weight in the scales of History and a single drop can tip them in anyones favour but the blood of a thousand Burenians does not equal a drop of a Lovian. Dimitri Kalinnikov 22:21, April 30, 2013 (UTC)
 * You shold be careful because you will get a lot of enemies. The Strask navy is going to support Lovia.MMunson-talk ( Vote SLP ) 22:16, April 30, 2013 (UTC)
 * Come at me bro! I march on to Noble City as we speak! The glorious First Consul of Rome (talk) 22:30, April 30, 2013 (UTC)

Donia, as a king you might be interested in knowing that your country consists of multiple islands. Not just one :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 09:01, May 1, 2013 (UTC)


 * A fact of which I am well aware, however left out for theatrical and artistic purposes. Oh and I'm at the city now. ;) The glorious First Consul of Rome (talk) 09:08, May 1, 2013 (UTC)
 * Actually, re-assessing your former preformance as PM (you still remember? :P), I'm thinking whether it'd be a good idea to crown myself "Grand-Heretow" of the Duchy 'Oshenna :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 09:33, May 1, 2013 (UTC)
 * You have my blessing brother! You'd make a fine Grand-Heretow, and perform your dukely duties as a champion of the people. 'Oshenna needs good men. I just need some support for my Kingship. This could be a lot of fun. Do we have an agreement? The glorious First Consul of Rome (talk) 10:34, May 1, 2013 (UTC)
 * Well, as long as it's pure symbolic, there's nothing I can oppose. Our party's Constitution says we're pro-monarchy, but it doesn't specify which royal family should be in charge :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 10:47, May 1, 2013 (UTC)

I though being the Duke of Oceana was Bucurestean's job? :o 77topaz (talk) 10:53, May 1, 2013 (UTC)


 * It will be purely symbolic, yes Oos. Now if you could do me a massive favour, mind having the police step down as I escort Dimitri out or would you rather do so yourself? :) We could do this really peacefully ya know. Just a change of guard, without any violence. The glorious First Consul of Rome (talk) 10:58, May 1, 2013 (UTC)
 * @tåpas: No, he was Il Duce (not Il Duke :P)
 * @TMV: I'm not the guy who controls the police :P I could set up a vote in the 2nd Chamber :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 10:59, May 1, 2013 (UTC)
 * Kunarian's in charge of the police. :P Holding a 2nd Chamber vote to determine the actions of the police just seems really... strange, not to mention corrupt. :P 77topaz (talk) 11:04, May 1, 2013 (UTC)
 * If you hold fire and we hold a binding referendum on whether Dimitri is king, Donia is king or whether Lovia becomes a Republic then the Police can stand down after the votes are cast. Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 11:25, May 1, 2013 (UTC)
 * We can do no such thing. I am at the palace now. We will enter. And ask if Dimitri wishes to be escorted out by us. If he does not wish to leave we will help him leave. And I will do so now. The glorious First Consul of Rome (talk) 12:07, May 1, 2013 (UTC)
 * One more step towards the palace and the FP will have no choice but to arrest you, or should you resist or act threateningly, open fire. This must be democratic or not at all. Dimitri Kalinnikov 12:38, May 1, 2013 (UTC)
 * Consider the step taken. And we will return fire, if fired upon. You are dealing with heavily armed Brigadiers, hunters, civil war veterans, Oceana nationalists and their sympathtizers, along with some of our agents in Noble City. All-in-all well over a hundred heads strong. We will not back down. The glorious First Consul of Rome (talk) 12:42, May 1, 2013 (UTC)

@Tåpas: the 2nd Chamber bit was referring to Donia becoming king; not to the police :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 13:05, May 1, 2013 (UTC)

Urgent News: A battle has broken out outside the royal Palace
300 Federal Police are now engaged in Urban combat with around 100 Brigadiers and co-operators, in the opening shots it has been claimed that Donia was targeted by the Royal Guard, it is unknown as to whether his is alive, wounded or dead. Currently the Lovian Land Army is half an hour away from Noble City, moving in a convoy along the highway, apparently with 500 armed hunters. No word on the Southern Cross Alliance however Oceana FP are sending their mobilised forces to reinforce Noble City. Hoffmann Kunarian TALK 12:52, May 1, 2013 (UTC)


 * I hope to at least make it into the Royal Palace before they gun me down. We have in our possession a rocket launcher to blast away the gate if we have to. I'll drag Dimitri out by his hair before this day is over. If it's the last thing I'll ever do. The glorious First Consul of Rome (talk) 12:59, May 1, 2013 (UTC)


 * If you get into the Royal palace then you probably will be gunned down. Problem you face is that you are surrounded. The Police set up a perimeter while you walked up to the Palace. Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 13:07, May 1, 2013 (UTC)
 * We have about a hundred more sympathizers from within the city as well as some allies from the Highlands. They will attack the police surrounding us from outside, as we fire at the gates and attempt to enter the palace by any means neccesary. Unless of course Dimitri steps down. The coward must be pissing his Royal Pantalon, shaking and shivering behind his bookshelves. Ha! The glorious First Consul of Rome (talk) 13:11, May 1, 2013 (UTC)
 * The Lovian Land Army has arrived outside Noble City, they have declared their support for the FP and for Lovia and are rounding up (or simply dealing with in other ways) those who are acting against them and plan to turn them in after the conflict, 100 of them are going to move down and assist the police by providing an assault force to try and break the surrounded troops outside the Palace. The reserve 200 LLA in the Plains are now moving to secure the Highlands and the Donia castle. More mobilised police will arrive from the south in an hour. Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 13:42, May 1, 2013 (UTC)
 * Stay out of Donia Castle. There are a lot of children and women there, protected by only a few men (my brothers and the butler). Stay out of the castle. They have nothing to do with the conflict. The glorious First Consul of Rome (talk) 13:53, May 1, 2013 (UTC)
 * Donias highland forces have to stand down then and so will the LLA highland force if they do. Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 14:02, May 1, 2013 (UTC)
 * The Highland forces just stand to protect the Castle. They will not March forward with the rest of the troops as the Castle has to be protected at all times. The glorious First Consul of Rome (talk) 14:07, May 1, 2013 (UTC)
 * Update: Reinforcements arrive as more and more inhabitants of Noble City have joined our cause. Some Donia agents have paid certain citizens to start riots in the streets, setting on fire some cars and flipping over police surveillance cars. They throw rocks at the police, damage material and cameras and some even break windows and loot shops. The glorious First Consul of Rome (talk) 14:20, May 1, 2013 (UTC)


 * Kunarian decided to fire at me, thus effectively starting the battle already. Then we both had some reinforcements coming in, him of course having more men at his command. In all likelihood I have lost the battle by now, or am currently losing it. Dimitri, if he has any common sense, would have fled the palace to safety somewhere in Noble City. I am however not the King because with all the police around the Palace, I am unable to hold on to it or stay in it for long. We are basically a republic now. Until further notice or word from the King (him remaining to stay) or the Public (wishing to remain a monarchy). As of now, we are without a King. And the only way for me to take hold of the Palace and the Throne is if the Police Force steps down. The glorious First Consul of Rome (talk) 18:21, May 1, 2013 (UTC)