Forum:The Pub

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nl:Forum:De kroegli:Forum:De Kaffeero:RoWikicity:Cafeneasv:Forum:Krogen Welcome to The Pub! This is the general meeting place in Lovia. Inhabitants can make public announcements, have a friendly chat with some copatriots, or discuss crucial issues in Lovian politics or business. Speeches can also be made at Speakers' Corner. All archives of The Pub can be found here.

Healthcare System!
It's the time to get working on a bill for healthcare! But, unfortunately, I have a predicament here. I don't know how much I should cover percentage wise for the different tax brackets. As said before, it will only cover necessities. If anyone has suggestions for percentage of care that will be paid for by the government health care please comment below. --Quarantine Zone (talk) 16:37, February 28, 2013 (UTC)

HELP!!!!!
HELP ME FELLOW USERS!!!!!! Im using google crome and recently i can't use wikination on that site meanwhile everyother site does work. I can only use internet explorer which is a bumer and edit the site....HELP has this happened to anyone? Marcus/Michael Villanova 00:35, March 2, 2013 (UTC)

Nope, it must be your computer. I am using Chrome and everythin is perfectly fine.  Happy65   Talk CNP   08:08, March 2, 2013 (UTC)

Same with me. 4kant,6FRÅGOR??? 08:25, March 2, 2013 (UTC)

YAY! The people at wikia told me to delete my "cache" idk whut that even is, but i did it and now everything works. Apparently there was a wikia wide problem were the new version of javascrpit messed some stuff up. Marcus/Michael Villanova 00:07, March 3, 2013 (UTC)

Labour Election!!!
WHile I can still even use the wiki I'm putting up this poll of the Deputy Labour leadership election. I want everyone to vote and support candidates, the outcome will greatly effect or decide the actual outcome of the election. Support candidates on there background, positions and personality! VOTE!!!

Which labour candidate do you support? Lenka - NPO leader and supporter of strong unions while being center/center-left Robinson - Related to founding Stephen Robinson, socialist and seen as a new look Inouye - Mainstream progressive views and believes in trade union strength

So please vote :D! Thanks Marcus/Michael Villanova 00:41, March 2, 2013 (UTC)

I chose Inyoue, because it's like my views but in Brunant, i'm with SLP (socialist). Hey, you shold join and be in the elections.MMunson-talk ( Vote SLP ) 03:35, March 8, 2013 (UTC)

Marcus is sometimes active in Brunant; he leads the Social Anarchy Party there. 77topaz (talk) 04:10, March 8, 2013 (UTC)

He's anarchist! It's very exterme, and I'm not so much.MMunson-talk ( Vote SLP ) 04:41, March 8, 2013 (UTC)

It's mainly a joke party Munson, and just like any other political ideology there are sub sets and sub sets within those. IRL i'm not an anarchist, it makes no sense tbh but over there Socialist Anarchy would be somewhere around "guild socialism" which would perfer to see local unions and smaller governments to control and regulate workers lives. Again not my actual views but since we're role playing. Marcus/Michael Villanova 11:06, March 8, 2013 (UTC)

Well you should run for congress then. I'd doubt you'd get the majority to make all those changes but you could become the voice of small government. HORTON11 : •  17:52, March 8, 2013 (UTC)

Hugo Chávez
Now Hugo Chávez died on the 5th of March in 2013, Lovia needs to send someone to his funeral or something else. Wabba The I (talk) 15:20, March 6, 2013 (UTC)
 * Foreign Affairs maybe? --O u WTBsjrief-mich 17:45, March 6, 2013 (UTC)
 * Nope. That guy was an enemy to democracy and we can't celebrate him. Hopefully there will be a better future for Venezuelans. HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 18:33, March 6, 2013 (UTC)
 * Not too familiar with Chavez but in what way was he an enemy of democracy? Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 19:28, March 6, 2013 (UTC)
 * Well to start the press isn't free and he made several constitutional changes to change his term length and abolish re-election limits. He'd be what one could call a "democratic dictatorship". HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 21:31, March 6, 2013 (UTC)
 * which in my opinion isn't technically an infrigment on democracy while you can debate, and i won't stand in the way, of he changes to other policies mainly because I don't know. I do know though he was a last remaining few Socialists. True red blooded socialists. He created a hybrid socialist ideology called "Socialist of the 21st century" which recognizes the private market and its role while being mostly progressive and have strong public influence and works. (regulation, jobs ect.) Kinda like our Labour :D Marcus/Michael Villanova 21:38, March 6, 2013 (UTC)

He did abolish term limits, which was bad, but the elections were all fair, so I don't think it was that bad. He also pulled a lot of people out of poverty and increases literacy, etc. His work with the national oil company didn't help that much, but it didn't bring ruin to the company or the nation at all. I have a mixed view on him. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 23:14, March 6, 2013 (UTC)
 * He wasn't on a par with Gaddhafi or Saddam Hussein, but he was still pretty bad. His elections may have been 'fair', in the sense that he didn't stuff ballot boxes or station men with guns outside ballot stations to tell people how to vote, but there are more subtle ways to do these things. His economic success was due to an overreliance on oil, and he couldn't control inflation. --Semyon 08:05, March 7, 2013 (UTC)


 * Does not matter. We can also just send a message with condolence. Wabba The I (talk) 16:44, March 7, 2013 (UTC)


 * Respect him as another man and human being just as we are, but to send a minister for a funeral would be a bit extreme in my opinion. He supported some terrorist organizations and had a burning hatred for America. He was also quite socialist, a farther left and progressive socialist; he wasn't quite a communist. I say, don't send a minister, and don't celebrate his death either. He should be respected, but not admired or hated. --Quarantine Zone (talk) 02:48, March 12, 2013 (UTC)

Quote
Jhon Lewis --Wabba The I (talk) 16:46, March 7, 2013 (UTC)

I have to disagree. World War II ending in 1945 is a fact and Thomas Jefferson being the third president IS a fact. HORTON11 : •  18:07, March 7, 2013 (UTC)

Jhon Lewis saying that quote is also a fact. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 20:03, March 7, 2013 (UTC)

Personally I enjoy that quote. Not everything needs to pass through the scientific process. Hoffmann Kunarian TALK 20:33, March 7, 2013 (UTC)

I like it too, even though I don't agree with it at all. Me stating this is for example also a fact. 4kant,6FRÅGOR??? 20:40, March 7, 2013 (UTC)

Opinions don't fit in the scientific process but facts do, which is what this quote is against. HORTON11 : •  20:45, March 7, 2013 (UTC)

I'm indifferent about this xD i guess its wrong, but isn't that what the quote is saying in a sense that even things that are right are left open to anyone's own thoughts and ideas. Marcus/Michael Villanova 22:36, March 7, 2013 (UTC)

Then again, it's a fact no-one can verify all the facts - or actually, one fact at all without eventually citing a fact which can't be verified. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 09:44, March 8, 2013 (UTC)

Well what if there are throusands of publications out there to prove a fact. If you take for example "Obama was the first black President of the US", there are thousands of books, journals, newspaper articles all pointing to that. HORTON11 : •  14:05, March 8, 2013 (UTC)

Then it's still possible that all those thousands of books etc. all are lying :P 4kant,6FRÅGOR??? 15:03, March 8, 2013 (UTC)

I mean: It is not because someone has nothing against nazies that he was a Nazi. It is not because someone has nothing against racism, that he is a racist. It is not because 99% of the people say something, that the rest also must find that. And if people say "That is difficult!". What is "difficult"? Wabba The I (talk) 15:39, March 8, 2013 (UTC)

Well that's the same argument all holocaust deniers use, that the 99% (led by Jews) are conspiring to make the world believe it exists. HORTON11 : •  15:44, March 8, 2013 (UTC)
 * Let's not get into that shifty business shall we. Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 16:01, March 8, 2013 (UTC)
 * Shifty?? That's downright horrible. I had a survivor come to my school once, and I was saddened to hear her say that there were many people who denied what she went through ever existed. But you're right, let's not focus on this any more. HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 16:27, March 8, 2013 (UTC)
 * No, getting into things about the holocaust generally isn't a good idea especially when you start suggesting certain people believe certain things and start supposing about conspiracies. That is the shifty part. You'd do best not to get hot headed about these things because naivety about the holocaust will be your undoing. Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 17:30, March 8, 2013 (UTC)
 * Well I am not implying that anyone here is an anti-semite. I'm just saying that argument about the 99% is used by disbelievers, just like those who don't believe the moon landing took place, elvis died etc. And well Wabba did bring up Nazis and racism... HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 17:48, March 8, 2013 (UTC)
 * I truly beg to differ. There are many facts and opinions, but not everything is one or the other. Say, my favorite food is eggs. THAT is both my opinion on food and a fact at the same time. --Quarantine Zone (talk) 02:51, March 12, 2013 (UTC)
 * Not treally. That you like eggs is an opinion, that you SAID you like eggs is a fact.MMunson-talk ( Vote SLP ) 03:47, March 12, 2013 (UTC)
 * Agree with QZ. His favorit food is eggs (fact). QZ likes eggs (fact). But: Eggs are delicious (opinion). --O u WTBsjrief-mich 06:14, March 12, 2013 (UTC)

Lovian Times Polling in Sylvania
Using the three major parties in the area that can win in polls both settlements and in the countryside most frequently.

Here are some statements that different people make about different political parties. In each case, which party do you think it applies to most - Conservative Nationalists, Labour or the Social Liberals?


 * The kind of society it wants is broadly the kind of society I want...
 * CNP - 46%
 * LAB - 31%
 * SLP - 8%
 * None - 8%
 * Don't Know - 7%


 * It is led by people of real ability...
 * CNP - 50%
 * LAB - 17%
 * SLP - 8%
 * None - 17%
 * Don't Know - 8%


 * Its leaders are prepared to take tough and unpopular decisions...
 * CNP - 23%
 * LAB - 31%
 * SLP - 15%
 * None - 1%
 * Don't Know - 30%


 * It seems to chop and change all the time: you can never be quite sure what it stands for...
 * CNP - 8%
 * LAB - 33%
 * SLP - 8%
 * None - 8%
 * Don't Know - 43%


 * It seems rather old and tired...
 * CNP - 31%
 * LAB - 38%
 * SLP - 1%
 * None - 15%
 * Don't Know - 15%


 * Even if I don't always agree with it, at least its heart is in the right place...
 * CNP - 23%
 * LAB - 8%
 * SLP - 8%
 * None - 23%
 * Don't Know - 38%


 * It seems to have succeeded in moving on and left its past behind it...
 * CNP - 15%
 * LAB - 23%
 * SLP - 23%
 * None - 23%
 * Don't Know - 16%


 * It seems to appeal to one section of society rather than to the whole country...
 * CNP - 17%
 * LAB - 42%
 * SLP - 1%
 * None - 1%
 * Don't Know - 39%

I hope you enjoyed your polling today, I certainly did! :D

Comments
3 people have voted so far! interesting results! :D Hoffmann Kunarian TALK 19:01, March 11, 2013 (UTC)

I have mostly voted for my old party, CNP. I agree with them on many issues.  Happy65   Talk CNP   19:11, March 11, 2013 (UTC)
 * Thank you, I'm glad that we are still so close after everything. :) Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 19:12, March 11, 2013 (UTC)


 * Well, you never did anything wrong, I just wanted a bit of a true lovian politics change. I'm still center-right IRL.  Happy65   Talk CNP  LogoCNP.png 19:31, March 11, 2013 (UTC)
 * I understand. Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 19:42, March 11, 2013 (UTC)
 * Some mixed polling for Labour :D which is mostly good and some bad. I understang the one about appealing to one side. I don't blame it, on the split but since about 3/4 of the party is labour union members who have to appeal to your base, before the split we were more progressive and social democratic when it was 1/2 of the party being union members. Marcus/Michael Villanova 21:58, March 11, 2013 (UTC)

I voted objectively (obviously cause CCPL isn't in the voting) and it was very diverse :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 06:12, March 12, 2013 (UTC)

Btw, I still can't vote -- the polls look like they used to before they broke, but when I try to cast, it just reloads the page with a # at the end of it. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 10:54, March 12, 2013 (UTC)
 * You tried to refresh? --O u WTBsjrief-mich 11:24, March 12, 2013 (UTC)
 * Yes. And I was about to try to vote at school, but now the polls are closed. Sigh. o_o —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 19:07, March 14, 2013 (UTC)
 * Sorry! but don't worry, there's some more Statewide polling coming soon. :D Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 19:13, March 14, 2013 (UTC)

Glad to see the results coming in thick and fast! :D Hoffmann Kunarian TALK 13:27, March 12, 2013 (UTC)

Pope
What is Lovian's reaction at Francis I: Wabba The I (talk) 19:44, March 13, 2013 (UTC)
 * The first Argentinian Pope.
 * The first New World Pope.
 * The first Latin-American Pope.
 * The first Pope with the name "Francis".
 * The first Jesuit Pope.
 * The first Franciscan Pope. (He's not a Franciscan)
 * I think it is a good choice. Latin America is by far the most Catholic continent and it was about time a pope would come from this region. I personally don't think it matters he's specifically Argentinian. I've always admired the Jesuits for their disciplin and I hope pope Francis will be a reformer, who will bring back order in the chaotic Roman Catholic Church. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 07:23, March 14, 2013 (UTC)
 * Seems like a nice guy. :P About time for a non-European pope too, I think. I suppose we'll have to wait and see how he does, but it looks promising so far. Perhaps the Lovian Government should send an official letter of congratulation? --Semyon 14:10, March 14, 2013 (UTC)
 * Good idea :P 4kant,6FRÅGOR??? 14:11, March 14, 2013 (UTC)
 * My reation: Dirty War. It's not clear what he did but it wasn't nice. HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 14:22, March 14, 2013 (UTC)
 * I'm pretty sure those claims were not backed up with any sort of evidence. --Semyon 14:32, March 14, 2013 (UTC)
 * The whole situation is unclear as to what he did though he was involved (though not as extensively as some would suggest). It's widely known the clergy supported the military regime. HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 15:47, March 14, 2013 (UTC)
 * I doubt that: not protesting against something doesn't mean you support it. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 16:41, March 14, 2013 (UTC)
 * My thoughts exactly. Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 16:48, March 14, 2013 (UTC)
 * I like the fact that they chose someone from Latin America, but otherwise I'm not very enthusiastic. He's another homophobic conservative. I don't see the progress, really. Punarbhava (talk) 08:12, March 15, 2013 (UTC)
 * Progress? You know he's the leader of the Catholic Church, right? It's like saying the leader of an Islamic terrorist group should be a convinced atheist... --O u WTBsjrief-mich 17:46, March 15, 2013 (UTC)
 * I was going to say this as well. The Catholic Church doesn't exist to promote or endorse 'progress,' just as the purpose of the International Humanist and Ethical Union isn't to convert people to Christianity. --Semyon 12:17, March 18, 2013 (UTC)
 * Punarbhava, a large consensus among the Christian church is that the Conservative mindset fits better in the church. It's not a complete consensus, but a larger percentage of Christians are conservative than progressive. Also, his political views shouldn't conflict with his role that much. He's a religious leader, not a political leader. --Quarantine Zone (talk) 23:58, March 18, 2013 (UTC)

Back


Hi everybody,

It's Happy65. I am writing this to notify you why I haven't been very active recently. The reason is I have been very busy doing lots of other things, and I took a short wikibreak. By tommorow, I will have resumed to full activeness. I will vote on all the congress votes. There's not much else I can say now except that I am back and well.

Oh wait a minute, thanks Pet Eagle! I need to remind you to give us some suggestions on what we should rename the SCP to, shall we keep our christian large aspect, shall we move to center-left. Give us a suggestion today.

And that's about it, surely, I think so, oh yes? Happy65 Out  Happy65   Talk CNP   19:38, March 17, 2013 (UTC)


 * Welcome back, Happy! :) 4kant,6FRÅGOR??? 06:40, March 18, 2013 (UTC)

Keep a separate one-seat SCP, but make the majority either dissolve into other parties (probably not xD), like Labour, SLP, and CNP, or rename it to something centrist, like Centre Democrats. It could be aimed at farmers, perhaps. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 10:47, March 18, 2013 (UTC)


 * Like Happy said before, the party is Social-Democrat and Christian, so it's supposed to be a fusion of both, somewhere in the left/center-left. HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 13:00, March 18, 2013 (UTC)
 * Plus, I wouldn't trust the Centre Democrats after what happened in Brunant. HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 13:03, March 18, 2013 (UTC)


 * I have exams too: French, Dutch, Latin, maths, English, history, biology, chemy, fysiology, geography and religion. Wabba The I (talk) 18:02, March 18, 2013 (UTC)


 * Personally I think that the party should merge all of the remaining minor Christian parties. For a new name, you could simply use Lovian Christian Party. --Quarantine Zone (talk) 00:02, March 19, 2013 (UTC)
 * I don't think Oos would let that happen. :P 77topaz (talk) 02:39, March 19, 2013 (UTC)
 * Oos won't let that happen for practical reasons. QZ left because he thought we are too leftist. RTP is too conservative. Personally, I do not yet see a reason why SCP can't merge into CCPL. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 06:13, March 19, 2013 (UTC)
 * Haha, that would be hilarious. :D I think it should happen! --Semyon 08:30, March 19, 2013 (UTC)
 * CCPL lacks the social democratic aspects of SCP. 77topaz (talk) 08:40, March 19, 2013 (UTC)