Talk:Communist Party of Lovia (neo-marxist)/Archive

Using big words like 'drastic'
Drastic... . Where did my "social democrat" friend Yuri go to? xD 12:07, April 18, 2010 (UTC)
 * You think so? Except for the package, I can't notice much change. I guess it's all about perception... 12:52, April 18, 2010 (UTC)
 * I wás talking about the package . 12:53, April 18, 2010 (UTC)
 * And I referred to the 'social democrat friend'. I like this package, what you see is what you get. 12:55, April 18, 2010 (UTC)
 * I know you do. I was just referring to my old teasing tactic. Me calling you a commie all day long, and then you'd point out you were "actually a social democrat"  12:56, April 18, 2010 (UTC)
 * Nowadays I call myself a neo-marxist, which doesn't really conflict the social democrat idea. See it as an expansion of my older views. 12:58, April 18, 2010 (UTC)
 * Frankfurter Schule-influenced? 12:59, April 18, 2010 (UTC)
 * Absolutely, the entire New Left of the 70's! Other main figures associated with this movement are Sartre and Gramsci. Wikipedia has a nice but simple article on the topic. 13:00, April 18, 2010 (UTC)
 * It's been too long since I last looked into existentialism. I've had a little existentialist/absurdist period in the spring / early summer of 2009. 13:03, April 18, 2010 (UTC)
 * Too bad it didn't last any longer, it sure is the right way to enlightenment. Just kidding, but you must admit there are some darn strong ideas in those movements. BTW how do you feel about the logo? Not too cheesy? 13:06, April 18, 2010 (UTC)
 * I am still influenced by the existentialists. I'm just not so much into their writings as I was back then, reading Camus and stuff. L'Étranger sure is nice to read.
 * The logo is cheesy right-o. But I like it, for a commie logo. 13:09, April 18, 2010 (UTC)
 * Lots of red and some yellow accents. Very eye-catching. Do you believe the logo exists? I mean, can we state that a sequence of positive and negative responses actually results into an existing thing? Where is the logo 'most real': in my head, on paper or on-line? 13:11, April 18, 2010 (UTC)
 * Are you walking the philosophical path? 13:14, April 18, 2010 (UTC)
 * No, I'm just a raving loony! It's hard to tell the difference these days.  13:25, April 18, 2010 (UTC)
 * Lol. 13:30, April 18, 2010 (UTC)

Fan mail
YES CLP forever!Marcus Villanova 13:26, April 18, 2010 (UTC)
 * That is a bit of a paradox, you know. The ultimate goal of the CP should be to make itself useless by achieving some sort of ultimate democracy of enlightened people. But until that happens: CLP forever! 13:30, April 18, 2010 (UTC)
 * lol. I like the change and new found excitment!Marcus Villanova[[Image:Flag of Lovia Small.png|border|20px]] 13:33, April 18, 2010 (UTC)
 * Change always gives a feel of revolution to both friends and opposers. I hope the excitement wont turn into an explosion. 13:39, April 18, 2010 (UTC)
 * I know i'm gonna sound like a jackass here but when people see somthing there afraid of or theatened beacuse they think we'll win back congress. Again if there are special elections we'd win them.Marcus Villanova[[Image:Flag of Lovia Small.png|border|20px]] 13:41, April 18, 2010 (UTC)
 * We could indeed get all our candidates elected and we have already two potential ones, but I believe most (and perhaps even all) candidates will be able to obtain a seat. 13:44, April 18, 2010 (UTC)

when i ment special elections i only ment the two open seats.Marcus Villanova 13:47, April 18, 2010 (UTC)
 * There is no need for such elections. For a brief period of time we simply reduce the Congress to 10 seats (in stead of 12) and after mid term elections all elected people get a seat. This will probably result in about 14 seats. 13:51, April 18, 2010 (UTC)

I also leave the congress and give up my seat and my position as secretary of the Department of Tourism and leisure. Dr. Magnus 13:53, April 18, 2010 (UTC)

Comrade appoint me? I shall do my duty in the postition!I shall never forget you magnus!Marcus Villanova 14:11, April 18, 2010 (UTC)


 * Villanova: marry Dalia Donia and take over the Donia Clan and all my positions. Dr. Magnus 14:15, April 18, 2010 (UTC)

I have already given away most of my earthly belongings to charity, but you may have the castle. Dr. Magnus 14:15, April 18, 2010 (UTC)

I shall make it a museum is honor of you and your great family!Marcus Villanova 14:17, April 18, 2010 (UTC)

uh... lol I shall not marry at this moment.!Marcus Villanova 14:18, April 18, 2010 (UTC)


 * You will enjoy living in the Emeralds. Dr. Magnus 14:21, April 18, 2010 (UTC)

I shall also to clarify does this also mean MOTC?Marcus Villanova 14:26, April 18, 2010 (UTC)
 * It does. Dr. Magnus 14:27, April 18, 2010 (UTC)

Probaly should have said this before
yay i have to agree with dimi it's a little to left but i'll stay in that case if there were like 5 other people that want to start back up the PCP or a other center left party we should until then CLP-NM Forever!!!Marcus Villanova 20:01, April 19, 2010 (UTC)
 * Perhaps you should; you kind of appeared to be a real fore-fighter of the leftist movement. And I guess you still are but you just feel the need for a strong center-based party too, right? I hardly believe in centrist politics since it always turns out to be nothing but 'the tyranny of mediocracy'. We would cheer if a new centrist party arose, but I would not spare them my critic[ism].  10:30, April 20, 2010 (UTC)
 * Umm i see if anyone else agrees Marcus Villanova[[Image:Flag of Lovia Small.png|border|20px]] 20:27, April 20, 2010 (UTC)
 * I went ahead new center left Party Labor Centerist Party Marcus Villanova[[Image:Flag of Lovia Small.png|border|20px]] 21:33, April 20, 2010 (UTC)
 * Couldn't you guys work out a compromise? I don't see the need to keep creating parties and lobbies and parties and more parties. 15:51, April 21, 2010 (UTC)


 * I just created LMFPAC and the other one to express idea and make it hole. I mean how weird would it be to just have 1 or 2?
 * I know you hate Party politics but theres only like 4 current parties LD(Rightwinged)CLP-NM(Socalist)WLP(centerright)Newly renamed Labor and Liberal Party(Centerleft).Marcus Villanova[[Image:Flag of Lovia Small.png|border|20px]] 19:27, April 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * To bad you left, especially because the party program hasn't changed yet - we still have the same policy as the PD.  06:26, April 22, 2010 (UTC)

I'm keeping centerleftism aliveMarcus Villanova 20:11, April 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * You were a good force in our ranks and know that you're always welcome! I guess I'm getting more radical with the minute because of 'the failure of centrism': making grey compromises and muddling along has proven to be not the correct strategy. That is just my opinion, though.  12:27, April 23, 2010 (UTC)

Oh also you should change your PD headquarters to CLP headquarters!Marcus Villanova 20:46, April 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * Indeed, thanks. I almost forgot to do so. 06:34, April 24, 2010 (UTC)
 * Got my e-mail Medve? Sent it to your Live address. 11:19, April 24, 2010 (UTC)

Buddy or comrade?
Where did my buddy Yuri go? It looks like I misplaced him, or perhaps he entered parts of this realm where I can not follow him. My buddy is gone for I have gained a comrade. Do you know there are voices calling for a boycott against the 'extremist government'? Harold Freeman 05:49, April 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * We are not an extremist party! Let this be clear, we only want a better and more social Lovia! Jon Johnson 12:18, April 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * Look, and you may regard this as an official statement: the ideology behind this party is based upon two premises, (1) live is in se meaningless and (2) people have a hard time dealing with the consequential freedom. These ideas are also tackled by the existentialist movement and lead to corruption and distortion in our social structures. This is where marxism comes in with his whole theory of dialectics. Then throw in some freudian theories about creativity and self-fulfilling and you're done. Show me how this is more extremist then some chap who believes that ethnicity and god are factual and defining actors and that economic motives are of a higher order than moral ones? PS: we're still friends!  13:50, April 26, 2010 (UTC)

To all kameradski's
Dear comrades, I felt the need to update our party program (again ) and to work on a more outspoken party identity. Lovia finally got used to the idea of having commies around so it is time for our last offensive. Our new program is only the start: I wish to see this program realized (like in 'law') and wish to expand our influence by the next federal elections. 'We gaan ons smijten' like they say. I do of course need your agreement on this since we still are a democratic party. For those of you who don't like reading big, boring party programs I will summarize the changes:


 * Choice of words: I made things sound more serious, more aggressive. Like real commies :-)
 * Making things more concrete: we were a little vague in the details, that's fixed now
 * Added some nationalization, quota, a national bank and taxes for the rich/import
 * I also wrote we agree on abortus and such (but not on drugs) and made a quota for catching fish
 * Finally written down how we make decisions here (by voting; +50% needed)
 * Added references to communism and marx and such. Please do read the first line!!

That's it I guess. No real changes, just pimped the older version a bit and made things more coherent.

Voting - party members only!
 * 13:51, May 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * I like to be member of an innovative party, and I agree we must by the following elections enlarge our influence, it's the only way of getting some democratic laws (by our hand or someone else) get through Jon Johnson 14:30, May 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * I support the new programme! Scanderson 15:00, May 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * 15:31, May 28, 2010 (UTC)

The full program as proposed can be read here. Also do note I'm working on a party website, The Comrade (url: www.thecomrade.org) 13:51, May 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * Srry for bopping in, but can't you better take a .lov-address? (which is Lovian) --O u WTBsjrief-mich 14:44, May 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * Aha, but isn't a political party an organization? (Which would make .org a logical choice). 14:51, May 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * .org.lov maybe? Pierlot McCrooke 14:53, May 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * Haha :P I'll keep sites from Lovia at .lov, 'cause if you say you have a .org-address it might really exist on the internet, while .lov doesn't. Also note Dutch political parties, like sgp.nl etc. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 14:55, May 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * I know they do, but we are trying to get some international appeal. Just kidding, I'll adapt the .lov 14:57, May 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * Hahha, think you'll get enough appeal cause Lovia is one of the few countries in the world with a major communist base which evolved in modern times :P Thanks :) --O u WTBsjrief-mich 15:00, May 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * If not to say the only. Ideas like these are not very popular with the large public - all because of that stupid television! 15:04, May 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * And, of course, because conservative Christian is way better :D --O u WTBsjrief-mich 15:06, May 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * ✅ It seems we have a majority, thanks for the support guys! I hope miss Red will agree on this too but here vote wont change the outcome. @OWTB: do I really have to answer that?  15:28, May 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * Ye just can't stand that we're better --O u WTBsjrief-mich 15:31, May 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * I think the name of the emoticon says enough, ' ego trot' ... 15:39, May 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * It's a short-cut of egotrots :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 15:44, May 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yeay! yeay! yeay! yeay! 15:31, May 28, 2010 (UTC)

Statue
Joeri has made it possible for this party to become what it is today. I think we should thank him in a special way. Any ideas? And if he asks anything we must do secret and sneaky because it has to be a surprise. 15:46, May 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * O, what do I find here? All my comrades have gathered without me? Could it be there is something going on?  06:03, May 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * Walden would support a statue for our premier. But you know, a nice statue without huge communism symbolism. Just a statue to Medve as "Lovia's premier" for these and those years. 07:10, May 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * Why not make it a party-funded statue with a reference to the ideology (something with the word 'labor' or so), no communist symbols and in front of the party headquarters? 07:15, May 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * nah, also good, but less universal eh. I was more thinking of a national state tribute. you know. Commies should like that . State-funded. haha; 07:16, May 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm very modest.  07:22, May 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * that emoticon is being used remarkably often lately :p 08:29, May 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * I never knew the name until OWTB used it lately. I hate expressing myself in a non-verbal way, communication tends to go haywire when I'm around. Emoticons help. 08:33, May 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * I love it! To bad you had to make it yourself but I always sucked in art-lessons. 08:37, May 31, 2010 (UTC)

Elections, exams, elaboration
We just had the mid-terms in which the leftist forces grew beyond what I ever held possible. Most of us have examination period now but after that we need to start on our elaboration of the leftist front. I'm working on a plan that will be a guideline for a shift to the left. Also, I made a logo that fits our image way better. Feel free to comment if you disagree. 14:00, June 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * I like the new logo, and I think we need a positive atmosphere around our party, what is your opinion? Jon Johnson 15:39, June 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * I get it, 'socialisme zal gezellig zijn of het zal niet zijn'.  15:41, June 11, 2010 (UTC)

After talking with Jon, the two of us thought it would be nice to have our own affiliated union and youth organization. We'll be working on this for now and also ad a bit to our theoretical base in the form of 'groupthink'. In essence this will be the perfect a balance between one strong party and the space for personal ideas. @Censuree: I would really love you to lead our youth organization. You're just perfect for the job. 16:07, June 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * Indeed she's perfect for the job, voting is considered unnecessary as she would be elected anyway Jon Johnson 16:11, June 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * Well, I know we are ought to vote on everything but some things just are consensus decisions. Let's say that any decision can be contested by vote. 16:13, June 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * indeed, she is the candidate and I think she'll like it too Jon Johnson 16:19, June 11, 2010 (UTC)

New logo is nice indeed. Don't forget to adjust your "share in Congress" in your infobox. 06:32, June 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm waiting for you to update that beautiful circular diagram. It is easier to count then. 07:14, June 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * Oh right. I'll do it right away. 07:21, June 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * No hurry, I have time. It's a day off today so I can work on my reform plan. Healthcare, reorganizing economy, fighting poverty and alcoholism, ... You'd better be prepared! 07:26, June 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * Uploaded  07:27, June 12, 2010 (UTC)

Groupthink
I incorporated a chance for all members to express their accents on the article of Groupthink. Please just take the time to make a small description. Thank you all! 10:01, June 12, 2010 (UTC)

Fraction Leader
Is it al right if I become leader of the fraction, this would be a nice way to unificate our voice in the congress, and also to show that the power in our party is devided, and taht several members are able to change what's is decided in the party (if the partymembers want to vote, cast :p) Jon Johnson 14:35, July 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * You have my blessing, son. Dr. Magnus 14:51, July 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * Well, there is no real organized institute tied to it so I don't think a vote is needed. My fellow members can correct me if I'm wrong. It is nice to see our members really want to 'throw themselves'. I do believe that the correct terminology in English is (parliamentary) faction chairman. 08:20, July 8, 2010 (UTC)
 * Okay then let's put it to a vote :p (even with the blessing of Donia )
 * I'm pro, seems logic Jon Johnson 14:08, July 8, 2010 (UTC)
 * , that's already half the votes needed.  14:17, July 8, 2010 (UTC)

Local Politics
It's really important to be ahead of the game and I think Groupthink was the first step. I think, between the NSL, LLCP, and CLP.nm, we should have a Local party for each Town/City. Confused, sorry let me explain it this way-

We would be unifed localy like we would have a local party in Sofasi but nation wide there would be three parites... it's like jesus, Localy we're one but nationwide we're three!

So are you ready let's vote by Party, we need all three parties to agree... Knowing that my Party is down to one active member i vote yea but yall's need to discuss this between your parties. Marcus Villanova 20:10, July 19, 2010 (UTC)

Pro
Yes that could be done! Marcus Villanova 14:54, July 28, 2010 (UTC)*...
 *  Representing LLCP Marcus Villanova[[Image:Flag of Lovia Small.png|border|20px]] 20:10, July 19, 2010 (UTC)
 *  (CPL.nm) I think this might work although I do believe we need one local party with different branches instead of a different local party for each location. 14:11, July 28, 2010 (UTC)

Contra


I have a question before I cast my vote: what's the use exactly? The decisive level of politics is nationwide and though I agree local politics are important, I doubt wether every town etc. needs its own local branch. 07:36, July 20, 2010 (UTC)
 * Why not it shows our keeping it current sorta thing, and why not each member or so can control a sector and it keeps us active.Marcus Villanova[[Image:Flag of Lovia Small.png|border|20px]] 17:45, July 20, 2010 (UTC)
 * I see. I don't oppose to it but I don't believe it will do much good (or bad) either. After consulting my fellow members I shall cast my vote. 07:07, July 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * I agree if we do this on state level, since that is the only level other than federal which we have elections for. We could introduce a Lovian Leftist Forces State Alliance (LLF-SA) Hm, SA sounds a bit, you-know-what-I-mean SjorskingmaWikistad 10:07, July 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * A bit like 'uh-oh extremists are kicking our buts and taking over the state gradually by violent means'.  10:26, July 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * I mean this SA btw SjorskingmaWikistad 11:10, July 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * I don't think we need local parties, what is the use? Jon Johnson 12:12, July 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * @Sjors: I know, though the SS were much worse. After all they 'solved certain issues'. When I visited Auschwitz-Birkenau last year we were invited into a little cinema. Later on they told us that where we sat, the SS-officers used to enjoy their weekly movie - I just freaked. I felt really discomforted; a strange mix of anger, fear, tragedy and perplexity. 15:58, July 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * I never knew somone could have all those feelings at once, i guess it was touching. Marcus Villanova[[Image:Flag of Lovia Small.png|border|20px]] 16:01, July 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * Touching? No way - I was like 'let me get the hell out, I never asked to be here!' And everyone else seemed so calm which made me only feel even more paranoia. I never felt like that before and I never hope I will never feel it again. 16:05, July 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * I found a map of the place; the cinema is somewhere at the 't' in the middle right of the map. 16:11, July 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * I want to vist where my grandmother grew up in Munich, in WWII she was a refugee and lived in the mountins and had no home and then came to america as a teenager, she vists there every summer to see her cousins and stuff and since she likes soccer (Like Luca Union lol) she always goes to see a Bayrn Munich game or whatever soccer is going on there! Marcus Villanova[[Image:Flag of Lovia Small.png|border|20px]] 16:14, July 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * Tell her she should read 'Het Stenen Bruidsbed' by Harry Mulisch; not easy but rewarding in the end. It is about the WWII bombardments on Dresden. 16:17, July 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * What WWII did in the end was to surge capitalism into America's ecomony and (I hate to put it this way) help Germany, Japan, Italy and other european nations, Full Heath Care, Equal Rights, and helped out labor unions, already if they didn't have them before! Marcus Villanova[[Image:Flag of Lovia Small.png|border|20px]] 16:22, July 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * In commie-academic: The European Civil War, as we can see the two WW, emancipated the middle class and integrated them and their desires into the grand construct of international capitalism - the rise of a culture of mass (read: over-) consumption was strenghtened by the fear for Communism (though not entirely unnecessary). Even today economy rules politics and the people are kept amused and frightened. Sure, the war(s) helped the common man but not to its fullest potential. We could be so much more... 16:26, July 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yeah, true I think any of Micheal Moore's movies could tell you that espcially Capitalism:A Love Story. Marcus Villanova[[Image:Flag of Lovia Small.png|border|20px]] 16:31, July 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * I just saw SiCKO and Bowling For Columbine. I watched Capitalism ALS at an (illegal?) show by the COMAC, a communist student organization.  16:33, July 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * Shhh.... the FBI is watching.... lol. Marcus Villanova[[Image:Flag of Lovia Small.png|border|20px]] 16:39, July 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * I'd be more frightened of SABAM if I were responsible for making money with downloaded material. Not that Moore minds copyright laws... 16:45, July 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * Watch out for McCartney! By the way, I'm now reading Perestrojka by Gorbatsjow. It's a little outdated, so I'm considering to read on with Jonathan Safran Foer's Extreem Luid En Ongelooflijk Dichtbij. What shall I do? SjorskingmaWikistad 18:05, July 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * Perestrojka is not really considered relevant to communist ('marxist') theory, but a nice supplement nonetheless. I'd continue with the fiction and then tackle Perestrojka if enough time is left. 06:57, July 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * Hm, I just bought some books in the bookshop, so my choice is even harder than at first. SjorskingmaWikistad 10:21, July 22, 2010 (UTC)

Politicaly Correct
I like how you mention Nova Times as Jon JOhnson be Politically Correct! Lol! Marcus Villanova WLP 16:06, August 8, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yes, well it's a bit an advertisement for us both Jon Johnson 16:08, August 8, 2010 (UTC)
 * Hehe, lol... You are becoming famous! BastardRoyale 16:08, August 8, 2010 (UTC)
 * Becoming.. he already is! he's a very good MOTC! Marcus Villanova WLP [[Image:Flag of Lovia Small.png|border|20px]] 16:09, August 8, 2010 (UTC)
 * true. and a friend of Walden :) 16:11, August 8, 2010 (UTC)
 * We're all friends you see, one big Lovian family Jon Johnson 16:13, August 8, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yes very I can't say thes ame as America! Congress isn't as friendlier there! Marcus Villanova WLP [[Image:Flag of Lovia Small.png|border|20px]] 16:14, August 8, 2010 (UTC)
 * hurray! 16:14, August 8, 2010 (UTC)

Song
Maybe time for a party song, such as Crush the Capitalist Beast? BastardRoyale 17:23, August 8, 2010 (UTC)
 * Guess he's already been crushed, as the only big parties are from the left :) Bucu 19:04, August 8, 2010 (UTC)
 * But then Join the CCPL! Everyone already associated the LD with the CCPL so it wouldn't be crazy! Marcus Villanova WLP [[Image:Flag of Lovia Small.png|border|20px]] 19:09, August 8, 2010 (UTC)
 * Left is indeed become large :p Jon Johnson 20:45, August 8, 2010 (UTC)
 * The LD was long gone before she was shut down, but that doesn't mean we (the left) has won. Capitalism is still in our heads, even in mine I must admit. Just like socialism, it isn't a matter of institutions but of acts and thoughts. 08:42, August 9, 2010 (UTC)