Forum:First Chamber

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The First Chamber is one of the two chambers of the Lovian Congress, the federal legislative branch. Unlike in other nations, the lower chamber serves as a room for debating and compromising, and the higher Second Chamber is where Members of the Congress vote bills that have passed through the First Chamber.

All inhabitants are allowed entry to the Congress, though only Members of the Congress have the right to actively participate.

Place Stop Bill
we cannot allow lovia to be destroyed by building addicts. Our nature and environment need protection from these grotesk plans. that's why i am proposing a temporary place stop bill. There are plenty of towns and neighborhoods in lovia that are empty: why build more??

Content
Congress will prohibit the creation of new neighborhoods, hamlets, towns and cities until a full state reform plan has been accepted and introduced; so that the responsible governments can manage building policies themselves.

Congress will put newly created neighborhoods, hamlets, towns and cities on hold until that time. We cannot afford to have many more places: Lovia is already jammed with empty streets. These newly created places are: Bayfield, Hurket-on-Kings, Novosevensk, Orange Gardens, Plains, Portland.

It must be noted that after the reform plan, all of these towns and neighborhoods may be re-submitted, for there are some very nice ones among them.

Talk
comment splease 07:05, July 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * btw: this is NOT personal. I do like these towns and all that; i just don't think we should build em recklessly. 07:11, July 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * I don't like the on-hold option at all; this matter is loose of state reform. What we really need are new state elections so that we have governors who are present and can see to the completion of the new towns/hamlets. Not that I am against the idea of a thorough reform, it is just that it would take longer than organizing state elections which is after all a more direct way to deal with this issue. 07:41, July 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * State elections must be reformed themselves, mr. prime minister. First things first: dealing with legal framework is more important than this building frenzy! 07:46, July 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * Unless you know a way to lineup a majority of MOTC behind a proposal that doesn't need revision a hundred times, I prefer to have elections first and reform afterwards. I support more democracy on the lower levels; putting everything 'on hold' until we figure out a solution seems to collide with that view. Portland for instance was build according to all the existing regulations, so why temporarily shut it down? 09:42, July 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * Do not shut down my beloved Novosevensk or I shall release my vengeange upon thee! BastardRoyale 15:33, July 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * Er...thanks for the support, BR. Seriously though, I think that it will be difficult to 'shut down' these towns. Novosevensk already has 4 inhabitants, as does Portland, and Plains has two. There are other articles that have been made concerning them as well (e.g. Truth Island Railway), so they are fairly well integrated.


 * I apologise if I didn't discuss enough before building Novosevensk, but I have worked hard on that project and would be disappointed if it was all just thrown down the drain. Semyon E. Breyev 16:15, July 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * Andy only proposes too freeze the projects until we sorted things out; You wont loose the project but I still deem even a freeze unnecessary. It doesn't help no-one. 08:48, July 27, 2010 (UTC)

Talk (2)
We really need to debate on how to further solve this issue. Since the Kings is finalizing his long-expected institutional reform and we can organize state elections afterwards, the only thing we need to do is officialize the newly build towns. I suggest we let Congress decide on the faith of Novosevensk, Plains and Portland and combine this with a temporary stop on the building of new towns (the end of the summer for example, when we have new governors). 09:09, July 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * I agree. What about this: we do a poll in the first chamber about which of these places can stay. When we have an idea about which places are support by Congress, we could make a sort of bill (not to be added to the law) to pass to the second chamber. Martha Van Ghent 09:14, July 30, 2010 (UTC)

(there was originally an anonymous wiki-poll here)

Because I distrust anonymous polls (Martha Van Ghent 09:21, July 30, 2010 (UTC)) :


 * Novosevensk
 * Martha Van Ghent 09:21, July 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * 09:24, July 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * Jon Johnson 16:14, August 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * Plains
 * Portland
 * Martha Van Ghent 09:21, July 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * 09:24, July 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * 17:19, July 30, 2010 (UTC) (Principally I agree with Andy. This town though is a really nice article.)
 * I hope to keep my project Jon Johnson 16:14, August 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * 09:24, July 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * 17:19, July 30, 2010 (UTC) (Principally I agree with Andy. This town though is a really nice article.)
 * I hope to keep my project Jon Johnson 16:14, August 2, 2010 (UTC)


 * There is still some work to do in Plains but in my opinion it could become a cozy town. Why the harsh attitude? Harold Freeman 09:32, July 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * Because we're building too much. We must choose, i think. Martha Van Ghent 09:35, July 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * i cast my votes. 11:05, July 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * So you don't like any of 'em? Semyon E. Breyev 15:04, August 2, 2010 (UTC)

Official note
The First Chamber was filled to the brim with proposals, attempts at proposals and rewritings of proposals. If you had something here which is now moved to the archive, please post your proposal again. I also would like to urge all MOTC to vote in the second chamber - it is getting crowded there too. 14:06, July 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * well done  15:50, July 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * I hope you vote too, we must clean it up in here. Order in the room is order in the mind ;-) 16:08, July 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * Oh I know an other one: Active bowl, active mind Jon Johnson 06:13, July 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * That's how Congress is ought to be: active and structured. (btw shouldn't you be doing your spreadsheet magic?) 07:27, July 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * A long time ago I have been reading somewhere: "From clean desk to clean screen". If that is of any help to you --Lars Washington 08:38, July 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * How are you doing Lars? It's been a long time  08:55, July 29, 2010 (UTC)

Economic Involvement Act

 * 1) The federal government of Lovian has the right and power to execute direct economic activities; either
 * 2) In the form of a State-Owned Company (SOC), when having a majority of the shares.
 * 3) An SOC is headed and run by a branch of the involved federal department(s).
 * 4) The goal of an SOC is to provide a certain public service to the people of Lovia.
 * 5) Any company providing a public service can become a SOC, by Congressial rule.
 * 6) When declared a public service by Congress, only the designated SOC may provide this service.
 * 7) In the form of a State-Involved Company (SIC), when having a minority of the shares.
 * 8) An SIC is run privately, but with Congress as a shareholder, represented by the involved federal department(s).
 * 9) An SIC is a means in the execution of the governmental policies.
 * 10) Any company that is of importance to governmental policy may become an SIC.
 * 11) Only the Congress has the right and power to approve or alter the statute of a SOC or SIC, by altering the Economic Involvement Act in the Federal Law.
 * 12) The executing powers are responsible for their own economic decisions.
 * 13) A complete list of all State-Owned and State-Involved Companies and their specifications:
 * 14) The Lovian Energy Company, of which 60% of the stocks are owned by Congress, represented by the Department of Energy and Environment;
 * 15) The Lovian Water Company, of which all stocks are owned by Congress, represented by the Department of Energy and Environment;
 * 16) The Unified Railroad Company, of which 60% of the stocks are owned by Congress, represented by the Department of Transportation.

Notes: (not to be added in the law) 09:08, July 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * The Lovian Energy Company will be a merger of the energy-producing branch of Ecompany and Walkernet
 * The Lovian Water Company yet has to be created since we don't have any company providing the service?!
 * The Unified Railroad Company will be a merger of the Pacific Railroad Company and Newhaven Express/Connect
 * The remaining shares will be divided between the current company owners

The Dimi Thing
May I do my thing? You know: punctuation, wording...? 09:09, July 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yes, just make sure you look out for the enjambments.  09:15, July 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * I will ;) 09:17, July 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * Say? 09:24, July 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * Now we have a good bill in good a good form, even though I say so myself. 09:27, July 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * Great. Before we go on, we'll have to discuss the remaining shares. Since Ecompany is way bigger than Walkernet, I propose you take 30% of the remaining energy stocks, and Walker Inc gets 10%. With the railways, I'd do 30% Walker, 10% you? 09:30, July 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * A very fair judgement. 09:33, July 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * I may hope so . Let's say we keep the bill a week in the first chamber?
 * Someone forgot to sign :-) Harold Freeman 07:46, July 30, 2010 (UTC)

Judgments (to know whether the bill may pass on to the 2nd Chamber)

 * LibDems
 * Liberals are usually not in favor of such proposals but I wont block it because for the companies in question it is rather normal to be state-run. Harold Freeman 07:45, July 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * @Harold and Libdems in general - Liberals would support this bill it keeps big compines in line! I Hate to say it and not to get personal but your party isn't liberal anymore, I would say Classic Libertaranism, Socialy Liberal. Econmicly Conservative with a side of small goverment. Marcus Villanova[[Image:Flag of Lovia Small.png|border|20px]] 14:40, July 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * Marcus: I don't pretend to know much about it, but I think Liberals do NOT want to restrict big businesses (in general). According to Wikipedia: "Economic liberalism... is an economic philosophy that supports and promotes laissez-faire economics." Semyon E. Breyev 15:22, July 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * @ Seymon - That page also goes onto say "It opposes government intervention in the free market, and supporting the maximum of free trade and competition, it contrasts with mercantilism, Keynesianism, socialism,and fascism. IDK but i think somone messed up on that page!Marcus Villanova[[Image:Flag of Lovia Small.png|border|20px]] 16:05, July 30, 2010 (UTC)


 * The neo-liberal wave of the nineties did however cause the privatization of a lot of sectors in Western Europe. It kinda depends on what sort of liberal you are. 16:36, July 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yeah i guess. Marcus Villanova[[Image:Flag of Lovia Small.png|border|20px]] 16:38, July 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * I don't think Harold is a liberal; he's just a guy that thinks the state should relax for a while and let people do their thing as long as everything goes smooth. Am I right? 16:46, July 30, 2010 (UTC)


 * Communists
 * I wrote it and think it is of a marvelous quality; easily passing any standard. (Okay, that was just too silly, but it is a good bill). 09:45, July 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * Great bill, and it's really necessary, It'll bring some simplifications I hope... Jon Johnson 10:14, July 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * Waldeners
 * Although it still needs some time to get used to the idea, it fits in Walden's new manifesto. Also, it's a perfect bill; no mistakes, no holes. Martha Van Ghent 09:16, July 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * what she said. 11:06, July 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * NLS
 * LLCP
 * Love it is so Anti-Captialism and helps small bis to grow and large bis to be kept in line! Very Good! Marcus Villanova[[Image:Flag of Lovia Small.png|border|20px]] 14:37, July 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * CCPL
 * Independents and Member by Right
 * : I support the bill. It's fair, balanced, well-structured. It requires no more edits. It's easy to consult and includes the required clauses. It allows adjustments in the future and new companies to be added. The bill makes the process of state-owned companies democratic and justified, just as it should be. 09:37, July 29, 2010 (UTC)

2010 State Reform Bill
'''This is very important. I need all Members of the Congress to read this bill carefully and to consider everything very well. Therefore, the bill will get its own subpage of the First Chamber.''' 08:27, July 31, 2010 (UTC)

Train Village Me or King?
Hi i am the mayor of Train Villege if you know, my question is can i combine Nicholasville, Muza and TV together! With that our population would frow and Muza would bring people to the town for entertainment purposes! My question is can i do this, does congress have to vote on this, or does the Govenor/Dimi grant me the power do this? I think the new state reform would let the Govenor do it so what do I do? Marcus Villanova WLP 21:01, August 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * The whole thing about towns and governors has been under fire quite heavily the past weeks. I suggest we first vote on the Reform Bill (which should get a majority quite easy I believe) and then follow the new procedure. (Congress votes) The King will probably support me on this one, but for now he is on a (2 or 3-day?) trip to London. A little visit to the queen.  07:18, August 3, 2010 (UTC)