Talk:Conservative Christian Party of Lovia

Nice! -- 09:34, December 12, 2009 (UTC)
 * You knew you could also run for Congress without a party (non-partisan)? -- 09:40, December 12, 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes, I knew :P --O u WTB 09:44, December 12, 2009 (UTC)
 * Okay. 09:44, December 12, 2009 (UTC)

No, it's not offensive ;) --O u WTB 09:55, December 12, 2009 (UTC)
 * . -- 10:01, December 12, 2009 (UTC)
 * "LOWIA" --Bucurestean 13:50, December 12, 2009 (UTC)
 * Inspiracioun è :P --O u WTB 14:04, December 12, 2009 (UTC)
 * Yeah, with your reference to Pim Fortuyn :S --Bucurestean 14:05, December 12, 2009 (UTC)
 * ? Why that? --O u WTB 14:10, December 12, 2009 (UTC)
 * "List". ;) --Bucurestean 14:24, December 12, 2009 (UTC)
 * Ow :P No, that's from the former name "Lijst Geert Wilders". --O u WTB 14:25, December 12, 2009 (UTC)
 * Pfff you're a crazy one. --Bucurestean 14:29, December 12, 2009 (UTC)
 * Je sais, but I do have OwtbBot! :P --O u WTB 14:33, December 12, 2009 (UTC)

Member accused for sockpuppetry
What are we going to do with William Johnson? --Bucurestean 17:02, January 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * Pfff.. Let's await if it's really sockpuppetry. --O u WTB 18:24, January 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * He seems to be one Pierlot McCrooke 18:26, January 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * (edit conflict) Well, we probably won't know . The guy is blocked (= Sannse's advice). There is some evidence on Wikipedia about a connection between this Johnson and Donia Dude, but I'm not sure where to find that. 18:26, January 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * I don't know what to do with it right now. I hope you can understand I've got more important things to do right now (such as reading some English literature.. tomorrow I have to send in a nice boekverslag :P) --O u WTB 18:29, January 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * Oh right . If there's anything I can do for you, just say so . I am supposed to become an English literature geek! 18:31, January 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * No, I'll just read a samenvatting and a few random pages of the book as usual (((A))) --O u WTB 18:33, January 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * Which book? 18:34, January 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * Don't know yet. I'll go get it tomorrow. (the library of the big city of Montfort has been founded by my grandfather, so we've got the keys :P) --O u WTB 19:01, January 9, 2010 (UTC)

Congratulations with the elections
Watching the exit polls with a couple of hours to go, I want to congratulate you already with your results. Oos Wes Ilava has proven himself and got a new chance to shine in the Congress. I'm convinced that Lovia will have the possibility to enjoy more of this democratic party and its party leader in the near future. We wish you all the good luck in the coming year in the Congress! In name of the LD. --Bucurestean 17:36, January 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * Thankee shön. I'm happy that the Lovians decided to give us (well, us... :P) a chance in the congress of 2010. I also wish the LD good luck and wise decisions in the coming year! :) --O u WTBsjrief-mich 18:37, January 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * Same for me. Congratulations! 06:59, January 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * Congratulations on behalf of the PD too. Also, I would like to invite you in a 'five point dialogue' about the reform that awaits us. It seems best to me if we first talk about a shared proposal, instead of each making our own proposal in Congress. 11:32, January 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * Thank you! I also wish the PD and our king good luck and wise decisions in the coming year! :) --O u WTBsjrief-mich 17:57, January 28, 2010 (UTC)

Conservative
It's actually quite ironic, but your viewpoints are often inspired by social democracy or moderate progressivism. What shall I do with my political chart? 19:55, May 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * That's why I asked ye to put me more to the left ;) Let's keep me where I am now, 'cause it still tends more towards conservativity than to progressivism. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 19:58, May 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yes yes, indeed, I know that . You take in quite a peculiar position. On the one side, you're rather homophobic, pro-family values and traditions, regionalist and pro free market. But then, you support easy immigration policy, low treshold health care, political reform, referenda, etc. You know, you make it tough on me to make my chart ;), but most of all it makes me happy. I like political independents. 20:00, May 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * Hhaha :P Think Conservatively Christian progressive party would have been a petter name :D --O u WTBsjrief-mich 20:03, May 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * Lol. What about "Just Me Party"?  20:05, May 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * Haha :P I actually wanted to get rid of my führer-image at LOWIA :D --O u WTBsjrief-mich 20:05, May 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * I watched a documentary on Wilders' populism last night. Oh I hate that kind of guys  20:09, May 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * With the EU elections Wilders was at my first place with the stemwijzer :P But now he has dropped: 1. was shared by CDA and SGP (:P), 2. was shared by Rita Verdonk and Geertje, 3. was ChristenUnie :D --O u WTBsjrief-mich 20:10, May 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * Verdonk? Lol. 20:15, May 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * I can't understand Verdonk anyhow, so she doesn't get me vote :P Nor does Geertje, 'cause he has dropped :D CDA is too neutral and CU is too left, so SGP it'll be (even though I'm catholic :P) --O u WTBsjrief-mich 20:17, May 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * You're voting gereformeerd? That's funny   20:18, May 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * At least they're christian :D --O u WTBsjrief-mich 20:20, May 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * Lol. One of my top reasons not to vote for a party . Anyway, I'm off! See ya, 20:21, May 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * Hahaha :D Thanks for the logo and goodbye :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 20:22, May 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * That stemwijzer is nonsense. Every time I get the same, it's dissatisfying and making me hopless: SP and PVV, the two extremes haha . The stemwijzer is really select as there are only 30 questions, in my opinion it may not be at all the motivation to decide to vote for somebody. Besides, some questions are really crap, while there are plenty of other important issues like foreign politics or economy. What does that bother me, "Mensen in dienst van de overheid mogen tijdens hun werk geen hoofddoek dragen.", for God's sake! :P Just leave the whole Islam thing out, we're in the middle of an economically hard period here... Bucu 09:00, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
 * Hahah, you should check all boxes except those concerning islam at the end, where they ask for which you find the most important :D --O u WTBsjrief-mich 09:02, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
 * Come on, there are still plenty of other important issues in this country . The whole political agenda is just fucked up. Bucu 09:04, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
 * That's why I'm in favor of abolishing politics IRL; it has become a game in which you only have to say idiot things and get enough money in 4 years time to live the coming 20 years in relative wealth.. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 09:09, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
 * Now you sound like a Greek communist idiot :P Bucu 09:11, May 24, 2010 (UTC)


 * 1) PVV
 * 2) Verdonk
 * 3) VVD
 * 4) SGP
 * 5) CDA

En dat terwijl ik bij alle islam-punten pro-islam was (behalve bij hoofddoek dragen in dienst bij de overheid :P) en vind dat de winkels op zondag gewoon open moeten :P. Maarja, twee populisten wegstrepen en ik kom uit bij de VVD, dus dat kan nog wel ;) Bucu 09:08, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
 * :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 09:14, May 24, 2010 (UTC)

Yay!!!
This is the former LOWIA i see well here's one more member. Alexey Hovlouchuk, it's up to you if you want to put him on the member list. Marcus Villanova 20:58, May 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * I'll sleep a night on it ;) have to go now :) goodbye --O u WTBsjrief-mich 21:02, May 23, 2010 (UTC)

Bliep, bliep, PING!
You probably wont be surprised I was watching the movements of the LD carefully but now you are more than just a 'bliep' on my radar, you're a PING! now. The CPL.nm, and without doubt many others, will consider you a political enemy (in stead of opponent). Don't take it to personal when I make a charge. 06:50, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
 * Why can't we live together in a peacful Christian world with Christian morals and Christians values :'( --O u WTBsjrief-mich 07:52, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
 * Because Christian values and morals are ambiguous, dangerous, multi-interpretable, homophobic things? Why don't we live together in a peaceful world with universal morals and universal values, under law and order, with the protection of our universal rights and freedoms?  07:57, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
 * You're not my enemy, by the way . I'm centrist, so only those in the corners are my enemies . 08:01, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
 * If you would leave out The CCPL opposes legalization of euthanasia, abortion, prostitution, drugs, gay marriages and adoption of children by gay couples and They are entitled to vote at elections, but may not participate in elections, as that is contradictive to the vocation of women we would actually be more left than LD :D --O u WTBsjrief-mich 08:04, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
 * I know, but everyone who beliefs in 'the vocation of woman' as a political argument can consider him/herself as a (political) enemy of mine. Such conservative values are very not-of-this-time. Why can't we all live in a relativist world where people try to do good, make decisions based on reason and understanding and leave behind constructed differences such as religion, ethnicity and gender? Oh right, because those constructed differences have brainwashed over 90% of the world population.  08:53, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
 * It indeed depends on where and with whom you've grown up. As I'm not grown up in a godverlaten, dissoluut oord, I know the correct morals and values, in contrast to you :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 08:59, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm raised in a 'godvergeten gat' too, went to a christian school and have moderate christian parents. I had to educate myself to find the right left values. 09:01, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
 * That's probably where the error lies :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 09:03, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
 * The values of your party really make me shiver. I see you incorporated brainwashing lessons in your program. How nice of you to make sure the children of Lovia find the correct values. Luckily most MOTC have a corrupted value system so you wont be able to push these things trough. Just for the record: gay marriage and adoption by gay couples are allowed in Lovia since they aren't forbidden. 09:08, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
 * I know, and that's why I considered it a testimonial party ;) --O u WTBsjrief-mich 09:10, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
 * Well, a system in which hard-working people get the same reward as a toilet cleaner can also be called rotten. Bucu 09:12, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
 * I never asked for such a system. Nonetheless I think we need more gay people in Lovia. And hey, why don't you write this in your party program: 'government should save at least a 1000 souls a year and assure their save passage to heaven'?
 * :'( --O u WTBsjrief-mich 09:17, May 24, 2010 (UTC)

Applying
09:26, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
 * Name: Yuri Medvedev
 * Religious background: raised christian but got lost long ago; I think religion is a fictional construct of mankind
 * Gender: male; can females even join? (PS: it should be sexes, since 'gender' refers to the pattern of institutionalized roles and behavior that is expected by society)
 * Short motivation: I don't really want to join but thought I'd give it a try anyway
 * Not accepted: you are already a member of a different party :P Otherwise I would have considered letting you in ;) --O u WTBsjrief-mich 09:29, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks, but can you fix the sex/gender thing. I just corrected it in the inhabitant infobox too. 09:30, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
 * Hey Yuri what you said up there about gender/sex really touched me. Also boys no more word "lady," only "women" :) Christina Evans 09:37, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
 * Being polite is important but being correct even more so. I don't think saying women is a bad thing ('vrouw' in Dutch) as long as you leave behind any negative connotation. When I say woman I mean 'someone of the female sex', not 'a hot thing that has to wear a dress and diet to keep a nice figure' for that would be gender in contemporary western society. 09:41, May 24, 2010 (UTC)

Bye
It really surprised me when I noticed you were gone, well not really gone but you get the point. I hope you have finally found what you were looking for. May our parties work together well. Harold Freeman 10:01, May 25, 2010 (UTC)
 * It does proportion Congress quite well :
 * LD - 4
 * CPL.nm - 3
 * WLP - 3
 * CCPL - 1
 * LLCP - 1
 * independents - 3


 * (including the candidates currently above the Red Line)
 * Looks quite well-proportioned to me :) 11:03, May 25, 2010 (UTC)
 * :) --O u WTBsjrief-mich 15:05, May 25, 2010 (UTC)
 * + 1 NLS, thus: Commies - 4 :| Bucu 15:07, May 25, 2010 (UTC)
 * A divided left flank = very realistic, lots of lefties in Congress = not so very realistic.  15:09, May 25, 2010 (UTC)

Are we missing some Republicans here or do we have some of that same dough in Lovia? --Lars Washington 15:45, May 25, 2010 (UTC)
 * Nobody ever needs the GOP here . -- 15:57, May 25, 2010 (UTC)
 * AMEN DO YOU REALLY WANT SARAH PALINA OVER HERE?!?!?!?!?Marcus Villanova[[Image:Flag of Lovia Small.png|border|20px]] 21:10, May 25, 2010 (UTC)
 * Of course not because she is in politics which is in conflict with her 'vocation'.  05:29, May 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * Or DO YOU WANT THIS--


 * As you see i really HATE republicans... sorry i get to hyped...Marcus Villanova[[Image:Flag of Lovia Small.png|border|20px]] 21:20, May 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * oh and BYE OTWB we'll miss yall... lol!Marcus Villanova[[Image:Flag of Lovia Small.png|border|20px]] 21:29, May 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * I don't like his ideas either but the break-away seriously weakened the LD (no offense guys but OWTB was your number one man in Congress). Perhaps my good old friend Harold could fill in the gap? 10:39, May 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * Hahaha, because I didn't do anything? :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 14:38, May 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * You did make a lot of comments (or must I say critics). You are also easy noticed when you vote contra a lot.  14:54, May 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * Hahah, no, Alexandru is the real star for voting contra :D --O u WTBsjrief-mich 14:58, May 27, 2010 (UTC) (cause he votes contra even if a minor point isn't excactly as he wants :P)
 * It is a major loss for the LD nonetheless. It is like I would leave the CPL, still good members left but not the most active ones (no offense guys, you're wonderful comrades!) 15:01, May 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * I wasn't a member of the LD, but of LOWIA, so actually I only broke the LD-LOWIA coalition :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 15:04, May 27, 2010 (UTC)

Criticism
This party is really discriminating women and homosexual people with some of its plans Pierlot McCrooke 09:18, August 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * Indeed, hence the words 'conservative' and 'christian' in the name. 09:55, August 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * Surprise surprise. 10:02, August 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * :'( --O u WTBsjrief-mich 10:54, August 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * Just don't take it personal 'cause it's not ;-) 11:03, August 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * As my grandpa said "Once you like politics you've sold your soul to the devil!" In the sense it's bis nothing personal (I think that's a Dr. Dre Quote... lol) Marcus Villanova WLP [[Image:Flag of Lovia Small.png|border|20px]] 14:09, August 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * I defenitely don't like the female discrimination thingy... Martha Van Ghent 15:43, August 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * Nor do I. Oppression of women is something for wussies. I said! Percival E. Galahad 15:43, August 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * No-one of us, except the members of the CCPL, do so. Nevertheless, it's their right to propose to change that . But as OWTB pointed out, it's a "testimonial party", not intending to actually change a thing. (Cos they can't.) 18:32, August 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * Too bad, the Lovian Kingdom of Christ sounded like an admirable concept to me.  08:13, August 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * Well, let's wait 'till the final judgement è :P --`O u WTBsjrief-mich 08:16, August 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * Sure and in the mean time we can work on the socialist paradise. 08:18, August 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * Why? :( --O u WTBsjrief-mich 08:22, August 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * Because there is war, poverty, hatred, ... if we have to wait till judgement day there wont be much happy folks left to judge. Create a positive environment and people will find positiveness in their souls. (I believe that's Buddhist talk) 08:24, August 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * Those things can easily be explained: as long as there are people not listening to the word of God there will be war, poverty, hatred. We indeed should create a positive environment using Christian morals and values :) --O u WTBsjrief-mich 08:36, August 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * Like install the Pope as a dictator, right? I think this one has experience with absolute obedience and respect for authority so maybe we should take a shot at it. Christian and socialist values don't differ that much. 08:40, August 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * Indeed, we both have the same goal: equality and respect for everything which needs to be respected (for socialist this means excluding capitalism and for christians this means excluding all those things summed up on this page :P) --O u WTBsjrief-mich 08:47, August 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * The biggest difference lies in the way these values are acquired. Perhaps your party grows now the LD is gone? Walden surely got the grease of the goose. 08:51, August 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * Perhaps :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 09:15, August 9, 2010 (UTC)

Applying (2)

 * Name: Semyon Breyev
 * Religious background: Christian
 * Sex: Male
 * Motivation: I want to join a party which is based on God's principles rather than humans'. Is that enough? I can expand if you like. Semyon E. Breyev 12:45, August 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * It discrminates women Pierlot McCrooke 14:37, August 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * That sure is a pity. -- 14:46, August 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * It doesn't discrminate it just wan't to keep them safe i guess the wording was bad! But still if your conservative you could just join the Capitalist Party, I created it to tie up a loose end! It's a local Party but you could make it major! Marcus Villanova WLP [[Image:Flag of Lovia Small.png|border|20px]] 14:53, August 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * Accepted :) --O u WTBsjrief-mich 15:10, August 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * Cool two members now awesome, I guess all the crap about women doesn't stop anyone! JK I still think that it's worded very wierdly and that's why people comment. But people are talking about it so that's good ! Marcus Villanova WLP [[Image:Flag of Lovia Small.png|border|20px]] 15:13, August 10, 2010 (UTC)\
 * Tho I must say even our most legal conservative patries are sorta liberal, that's why i like Europe and Lovia ! Marcus Villanova WLP [[Image:Flag of Lovia Small.png|border|20px]] 15:18, August 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * Indeed, it's like dogs: negative attention also is attention! :) --O u WTBsjrief-mich 15:19, August 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yes very true! So what are you gonna do with the capitalist party I see you put a UC there? Marcus Villanova WLP [[Image:Flag of Lovia Small.png|border|20px]] 15:22, August 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks! @Marcus:I'm not a woman so I don't really care. (only joking of course) Semyon E. Breyev 15:33, August 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * I know! That's awseome hope you have fun at the CCPL...Marcus Villanova WLP [[Image:Flag of Lovia Small.png|border|20px]] 15:35, August 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * You can't use the words 'fun' and 'christian' (or 'conservative') in one truthful sentence unless it is a negation - like mine.  07:22, August 11, 2010 (UTC)

I was wondering if all members have to support the entire program. The parts about economy and education are fine for me but some other elements I do not like that much. Harold Freeman 08:09, August 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * Well eh.. Depends on which parts. :) --O u WTBsjrief-mich 09:03, August 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * If you dissagree that Everyone should be cristian,No gays, no abortion, and no anything but you do agree with marching in lines and stuff then sure... I have nothing agianst conservatisism or stuff (I like diversity) but no religon in politics plaease! I wouldn't mind this party if it was just the Conservative Party of Lovia! Marcus Villanova WLP [[Image:Flag of Lovia Small.png|border|20px]] 23:47, August 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * I do not agree with the restrictions for woman and gay people. I think abortion and euthanasia should be carefully handled but I do not favor a total ban. My opinion is obviously too liberal for a conservative party. Harold Freeman 08:22, August 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * Well, at least you feel these things should be carefully handled. Many liberals are more extreme: abortion is okay, no questions asked. There should be a good reason, right? "I am to poor" or "I do not want kids" is a lousy reason to abort a perfectly healthy baby. Then just have the kid and then give the fruit of your loin away for adoption. Maybe I should join this patrty, to bad I am a buddhist and a communist. :-D BastardRoyale 10:30, August 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * I am a christian but not that inspired by religion. I think rape victims or people with a serious inheritable disease are entitled to have an abortion if they want one. A communist Buddhist? I did not know that was possible :D Harold Freeman 10:44, August 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * It is possible. You see, as a buddhist, I do not care much for my earthly belongings and I am more then willing to share! BastardRoyale 10:49, August 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * I am not that much into socialism or buddhism but is socialism not about giving the people the wealth they deserve while buddhism is about letting go of desire and be happy with being poor? Or is that to much of a caricature? Harold Freeman 10:51, August 12, 2010 (UTC)

Religion and politics
Religion has NO place in politics! It is a bad combination thst is not in the best interest of the poeple. Religion in government is waht leads to fundamentalism. Fundamentalism then leads to a religious state like Iran. This is a a bad thing for Lovia, and for democracy! People of Lovia, this is my message: Do NOT vote for CCPL! Michel-s 20:42, September 17, 2010 (UTC)
 * Please Michel-s stop this annoying rant on every talk page about Un-democratic crap. If not you'll get banned, Thnk you! Marcus Villanova Walden [[Image:Flag of Lovia Small.png|border|20px]] 20:59, September 17, 2010 (UTC)
 * I don't think you are the right person to say that Michel-s. In fact you have not yet done a single useful edit on this site. I believe you are only here to irritate us and that's a bad thing. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 07:42, September 18, 2010 (UTC)
 * Hehee, een moraalridder op Lovia. SjorskingmaWikistad 09:47, September 18, 2010 (UTC)
 * Agreed Michel is kinda getting annyoing Marcus Villanova Walden [[Image:Flag of Lovia Small.png|border|20px]]
 * Please Michel, come with an alternative. Considering your recent attacks on monarchy, fascism, communism and religion I take it that you are yourself some kind of a liberal? Take a look at the Liberal Union and try to change things from within the system.  07:01, September 22, 2010 (UTC)

Applying (3)

 * Name: Ygo August Donia
 * Religious background: Christian
 * Sex: Male
 * Motivation: I am against abortion, I dislike feminism, I believe our nation has way to many atheists and conservatism agrees with me. Dr. Magnus 18:32, October 1, 2010 (UTC)
 * PS: I joined the LCP and it merged and went down. I then joined the NLS and it merged and closed down. I guess God does not want me to be a socialist. He gave me signs... Dr. Magnus 18:33, October 1, 2010 (UTC)
 * Well, if you've found the Light of God, who am I to dim it. As I do not seem to get much support for our big difference (Castle Donia), I'll leave it up to the new governor of Sylvania (as that probably will be BastardR, I guess you ain't got no problem there). Ygo August Donia, welcome to the Conservative Christian Part of Lovia! :) --O u WTBsjrief-mich 06:22, October 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * Wow surprising! Marcus Villanova 23:09, October 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * With the bible in his hand, Ilava will guide Oceana trough these dark times as a bright star on a cloudy night. He has the expertise, and needs all the support he can get. The alternative is: horror, lost morals, loss of culture, the end of civilisation as we know it. Dr. Magnus 17:55, October 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * As long as he doesn't preach some mixed up liberation theology where people get nailed to crosses to free Oceana of the Lovian oppressors it's fine with me.  07:14, October 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yuri, its a long way from being a devout christian to being a fanatical one. ;) Dr. Magnus 08:12, October 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * Good idea Yuri! :P Nah, let's stick to the usual Roman-Catholic stuff ;) --O u WTBsjrief-mich 08:15, October 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * A pitty. But I still can chant devote songs in Latin if you are elected governor, can I? 08:35, October 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * Sure ye can man. We're gonna keep the constitution things and that includes freedom of speech and chanting :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 09:04, October 10, 2010 (UTC)

Party reform
I have tried to keep it conservative and Christian, but also tried to make it more progressive and more to the center. Therefor I have left many notes like "Party members are free to make their own decision about ...". I really want to know whether this reform is acceptable by you guys (which means our members) or whether it is too much. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 10:47, October 19, 2010 (UTC)
 * It's acceptable to me but not the abortion thingy because "abortion because sex before marriage results in satanic kids" is, with all due respect, a silly and ridiculous reason. Abortion is worse then pre-marital sex, though both are sinful and unwanted. Dr. Magnus 10:49, October 19, 2010 (UTC)
 * Okay, I'll await Semyon's respons. I'll change it then. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 10:51, October 19, 2010 (UTC)
 * My parents never married, you see. So if my mother would have listened to a priest telling her she would give birth to a reincarnation of Satan, neither me or any of my siblings would have excisted. Just that you know. Dr. Magnus 10:54, October 19, 2010 (UTC)
 * Personally, I think aborting the child is simply adding another sin to the first. It's also irresponsible; people are not forced to face up to the consequences of their actions, and so are likely to repeat them. (cf the 16-year old girl in my school who became pregnant three times, and aborted the first two.) --Semyon 11:00, October 19, 2010 (UTC)
 * Well, you are free to keep opposing abortion with this reform. So, do you agree with it? You can still remain very conservative, but now we can also attract less conservative people and more left-orientated people. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 11:02, October 19, 2010 (UTC)
 * I agree with keeping the 'impregnated against her will' part, but not the 'before marriage' part. It's a good idea to keep the 'Party members may have their own opinion' notes, however. --Semyon 11:15, October 19, 2010 (UTC)
 * Okay, I'll leave that part out :) --O u WTBsjrief-mich 11:21, October 19, 2010 (UTC)

On education
Our nation has freedom of speech, more or less. It lacks freedom of education, however. When parents choose to send their children to a school in which they can follow religious classes and learn about the beliefs of their ancestors, they should be able to do so. However they are not, not in Lovia. In Lovia, teaching children about, say, Christianity (or Islam, for the matter) is forbidden. It is not allowed. Because it is indoctrination. If a school opens with saying a prayer, if a school lets children recite psalms or sing religious songs, it is called "brainwashing" the pupils. This is, of course, ridiculous. But we are ruled by a paranoid, militant atheist majority. An atheist majority who claims tolerance and acceptance of "opposing views", but at the same time, opress our beliefs. We need to reform the educational system in Lovia. Schools should be able to teach their own programs, not be forced to teach the programs the government has written. Programs that ridicule religion. Programs in which there is no place for creationism. Dr. Magnus 17:34, November 6, 2010 (UTC)
 * Agreed, actually when they converted the Bisschoppelijke Colleges to Rijksscholen in the nineties about 20% of the students skipped the first class of the day to go to the church. As long as we don't have a fair and non-discriminative educational system (parents may choose to which school they send there children: atheist, muslim, christian, jewish, etc) this is something we might allow. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 18:15, November 6, 2010 (UTC)
 * Frankly, I am sick and tired of our people being discrimated against by the same government that is supposed to look out for all its citizens. I'm not alone in this. We should think of an educational program-reform, and make a proposal for this. Dr. Magnus 21:01, November 6, 2010 (UTC)
 * Or send them to private institutes which are financed by the incomings of the local mines. On this way you'd create a state within a state :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 07:02, November 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * @Pierius: you haven't read the law well. I am not going to summarize it for you, because I think you ought to read it for yourself. Your conclusions are based on nonsense. 08:13, November 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * @Dimitri:read this. they want to declare oceana independent Pierlot McCrooke 08:17, November 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yeah, ain't gonna do it again... --O u WTBsjrief-mich 08:22, November 7, 2010 (UTC)

Well, Dimitri, I'll cite from Article 6.3.5.1: ''In a course called 'Religions of the world', children may be taught about religions. If the school wishes to teach this subject, all major religions should be brought to attention, as well as a non-religious attitude.'' Actually, the law does say "brought to attention". If you ruim opvatten this then you could say: "Islam is a religion" and give all other lessons about Christianity. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 08:29, November 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * The law (enforced in this by means of the REAC) doesn't allow doctrinal classes. Religion can be studied in the classroom as an historical (crusades, Ottoman Empire, ...), sociological (link with elite, charity for the poor) and cultural phenomenon (biblical inspired art, holy books). Any classes that teaches religion in a non-neutral way can not be allowed on an officially subsidized school. If you feel the need to such lessons I suggest you start a (private) sunday school. 08:37, November 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * Could you cite me the text in the law? Anyway, sunday school is not a possibility. (zondag = rustdag) --O u WTBsjrief-mich 08:38, November 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * Federal Law Article 6 points 3.5.1 and 3.5.2 I think. Maybe there are some more specifications around but those are the ones you need. 08:51, November 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * The same as I cited above. Actually the law does not forbid Christian lessons as long is they are brought with an "It could be that..."-attitude. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 08:55, November 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * Replace the 'it could be attitude' with a 'religious people of this tendency say that', add how this religious tendency 'proves' this (by referring to some holy text or something) and then offer enough alternative world views, also with how they provide which evidence. Then I can agree, because you would have a neutral lesson in comparative world views. 09:02, November 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * Or burn up the school and send your children to the church. Unless you offer more Christian in percentage, f.e. 50% Christian (split up in Catholic, Protestant, Orthodox), 25% Atheist, 10% Moslim, 10% Buddhist etc. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 09:07, November 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * Separate education for different religions is again indoctrination, whether you say 'it could be that' in advance or not. Give it all and let the kids themselves determine which they deem acceptable. Sure, my local priest is afraid of that too; just imagine kids thinking for their own... 09:18, November 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * Long live Luther! 09:20, November 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * It's an edgy problem guys... Too bad we ain't part of the EU. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 09:40, November 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * I love the EU but it is far from perfect. In most countries religions are still funded by the state, which results in discrimination of less organized and historic religions. Also, sunday morning the state-funded Radio 1 broadcasts 'de mis'!! 09:47, November 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * What do you want: largest fraction in EU parliament are the conservative/christian-democrats. 09:48, November 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * Indeed, but I ain't a supporter of the EU, unlike you guys :P Rather funny, the EU is good for me and bad for you, while I hate it and you love it somehow :) --O u WTBsjrief-mich 09:49, November 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * I love the idea of the EU but not the EU itself. Bureaucracy is my main concern, I think; having lived abroad most of my life I am fairly unpatriotic, so I wouldn't mind further integration. --Semyon 18:25, November 20, 2010 (UTC)
 * I hate the EU probably even more than I hate the Netherlands, so I'm waiting on the day that the EU'll fall :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 13:47, November 21, 2010 (UTC)

Elections
It might be a good idea to start planning for these elections. --Semyon 18:27, November 20, 2010 (UTC)
 * OK, what would you like to plan then? :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 13:46, November 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * Well, who's gonna run for MOTC? Semyon, Pierius, OWTB? If we give us all our important votes, f.e. I give Semyon 3 and Pierius 2, Pierius gives me 3 and Semyon 2 and Semyon gives Pierius 3 and me 2 it's the best we can do. We can't reach much with only one/two guy(s) elected and having a PM. We can reach much more if everyone's elected. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 14:27, November 21, 2010 (UTC)