Talk:Lovian Civil War

If you want to add more events, please do, but remember the time in Lovia is now around 1200. --Semyon 19:48, October 4, 2011 (UTC)
 * Great stuff! I have a feeling this "drunken man of American origin" is one seriously badass dude. The Master&#39;s Voice 20:03, October 4, 2011 (UTC)

Rumour
While your rumour may not be entirely true, it's not far off. I might aswell take the blame and make the most of it. After all, I have nothing to loose in Lovia. Let us all have a blast (literally!). The Master&#39;s Voice 15:47, October 5, 2011 (UTC)
 * I only said it was a rumour, so feel free to deny it :) --Semyon 17:00, October 5, 2011 (UTC)
 * Nah, I am pretty sure I'm gonna fully endorse this particular rumour. I like it. The Master&#39;s Voice 17:18, October 5, 2011 (UTC)

Just get rid of it
I think we should just delete all the history on the coup and rebellion, they both are unrealistic. I preformed the coup only to get attention of the site and get things rolling. We are at good numbers now, we can go back to being normal and debating. -Sunkist- 20:42, October 6, 2011 (UTC)
 * No, it's kind of cool and a good part of the history. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 20:43, October 6, 2011 (UTC)
 * Agreed with TM. Besides, it's too late now. We can't go back. I know I can't (and won't). The Master& 20:44, October 6, 2011 (UTC)
 * If we want to keep it, then personally I think the Police would of already taken care of this. Lovia has no civilians with guns, and once the Lovian Coastal Guard lands on the island in about ten minutes its almost no match. The Lovian Coastal Guard is heavily equipped, and won't back down. Also, When did so many right-wingers come to Seven? -Sunkist- 20:47, October 6, 2011 (UTC)
 * Lovia does have civilians with guns. The Master&#39;s Voice 20:49, October 6, 2011 (UTC)
 * The Dept. of Welfare is creating temporary hospitals to help the people, effective immediately. Also who is the police chief: Secretary Almore is considering his/hr replacement with someone more effective. HORTON11  20:50, October 6, 2011 (UTC)
 * I'm currently in command, I'm sending in the Coastal Guard, which with several other units of Police to Seven. We will stop the killings and bring back peace and order to Seven. -Sunkist- 20:54, October 6, 2011 (UTC)
 * Don't expect this to be over soon, Sir. Even in your best case scenario, it will take several days for you to realise this plan. You are facing a very dangerous and well-equiped enemy. An enemy that does not want to be caught alive, either. 't Isdood of de gladiolen, my friend. The Master&#39;s Voice 20:58, October 6, 2011 (UTC)
 * Err, Zack, you have resigned as Police Commissioner and have left the country, so you actually don't. :/ —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 21:00, October 6, 2011 (UTC)
 * Yet another twist! Such an amazing story. Seems lik you won't kill me just yet, guys. FREEDOM! The Master&#39;s Voice 21:02, October 6, 2011 (UTC)
 * I was still contenplating if I was going to leave to Peru, but stopped. So I actually don't, alright.-Sunkist- 21:04, October 6, 2011 (UTC)
 * If action adventure is what you desire, why not join the revolt? The Master&#39;s Voice 21:07, October 6, 2011 (UTC)
 * Well in that cast the department would like to appoint Mr Ilava for the position. (I would have chosen Alexandru but he's not active) HORTON11  21:07, October 6, 2011 (UTC)
 * You can always ask Alexandru. Officially he's with the Brigade though (so he is with the rebels). The Master&#39;s Voice 21:15, October 6, 2011 (UTC)
 * In addition, Alexandru the character is dead. You'll have to use Christian, and Oos controls him anyway. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 21:22, October 6, 2011 (UTC)
 * I meant the user, but Christian would be a good candidate. HORTON11  21:26, October 6, 2011 (UTC)

UNLOR
Is the UN really able to react that fast? I was reading some stuff on Wikipedia, but they don't seem to have that sort of information. I thought it would take two weeks at least. --Nikolai Koshkov, a.k.a Semyon 10:03, October 8, 2011 (UTC)
 * Oh well, let's call some revolutionary movement from the real world in then to help us. Like, IRA, Al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigade and maybe some Basque freedom fighters. I mean, if they can call in the UN, we could do like the opposite. The Master&#39;s Voice 10:07, October 8, 2011 (UTC)
 * (1) Yes the UN can react that fast since Lovia is a small country, located very close to the US and not at all divided entirely - we just have an uprising in certain yet smaller parts from a very tiny country. We're not the Congo DR you know. (2) I doubt the IRA has interests to defend on Lovian soil. The only support you could garner is that of some Al Qaeda semi-independent sleeper cell. 07:35, October 9, 2011 (UTC)

Call for peace
This riot has taken long enough now, I don't like civil war which is by the way very unlikely in a small well-faring country like ours. Extremists are a minority, and even with a decent support base they stand no chance against well-armed and well-trained UNLOR troops and their military capacity. The instigators (you know who I mean) are loosing their political capital. Stop the riots and face fair justice OR continue to resist and bare the grave consequences. This call is made in everyone's best interest. 08:06, October 9, 2011 (UTC)
 * I said this before and I will repeat myself once again: there is no going back. I guess we will eventually lose ground, be driven into a compound or stronghold of rebel forces and resist UNLOR there to the bitter end (which likely will be within a week or sooner). I do not expect to gain anything. To surrender is not an option, I fear. The Master&#39;s Voice 08:20, October 9, 2011 (UTC)
 * It's just sad that this hurts your reputation, but you've always been more of a heroic rather than a rational type.  09:00, October 9, 2011 (UTC)
 * Very true. And there is quite some heroism in a daring last stand against my enemies. To enter a battle against a mighty enemy with no chance or expectations of winning or surviving whatsoever. Maybe a final charge, and then go down in a blaze of glory? If I'll leave Lovia I'll leave with a bang, that's for sure. My reputation, well, I couldn't care less I guess. Very bushido, if I come to think of it! The Master&#39;s Voice 09:06, October 9, 2011 (UTC)
 * I'd like to keep Lovia intact, even if I should leave. Some firework is great but we don't want to burn the place down, now do we?  10:02, October 9, 2011 (UTC)
 * I have no such intentions. Besides, the "rebellion" only involves two of our smallest states. Lovia will still be very livable, workable and likeable regardless of the outcome. With UNLOR present it's not a question if we loose, but when. :) The Master&#39;s Voice 10:17, October 9, 2011 (UTC)

Riots or...??
Should we still call this riots or is it way past that stage and is a rename needed? If so, what should we name the page? The Master&#39;s Voice 14:46, October 9, 2011 (UTC)
 * We can think about these things when everything is settled; when we have a solid 'overview'. I will gladly provide pages for UNLOR, officer McArthur and (subpage?) Operation Kenneth. 15:03, October 9, 2011 (UTC)
 * My definitive answer: here. And yes, that'd be great Yuri. The Master&#39;s Voice 15:05, October 9, 2011 (UTC)

The commander speaks
''L. McArthur, UNLOR commanding officer, demands a full stop of all rebel violence and their advancement into government-controlled regions. Also, all rebel militia are ordered to disarm and surrender. If resistance against peaceful means is maintained, strategic air-strikes against tactical buildings and rebel ground troops become an option.'' - This may be regarded as an official notice broadcasted on all radio- and television networks. 14:52, October 9, 2011 (UTC)
 * Our answer is already in the article:
 * La Blaca answers on behalf of all rebel forces:
 * "We will never surrender. We will fight till our last drop of blood is spilled and our last breath of air is taken, we live and we die in absolute freedom and with honour".
 * To prevent strategic air-strikes, captured UNLOR officers are strategically placed near would-be targets and thus used as human shields.
 * The Master&#39;s Voice 14:57, October 9, 2011 (UTC)
 * Koshkov wishes to relay the following message to Commander McArthur from captivity:
 * "We cannot deal with a hypocritical UN force whose sole aim is to prop up a failing pseudo-democratic regime. I ask Commander McArthur to remember that our grievances are genuine, and that we will prove it with the spilt blood of UN soldiers if necessary."

Am I going to be freed?
Yuri, are you going to free me as per La Blaca's offer? :) --Nikolai Koshkov, a.k.a Semyon 15:48, October 9, 2011 (UTC)
 * You know there is a fair chance of you getting gunned down tomorrow if you're freed now, right? But hey, this is a once in a life-time opportunity to become a martyr. The Master&#39;s Voice 15:52, October 9, 2011 (UTC)
 * I don't have the authority to free anyone. Until the situation is under control, all apprehended rioters/rebels remain incarcerated. Later on we have to make a distinction between regular trouble-makers and real masterminds. So what are you, crook or rebel? 05:06, October 10, 2011 (UTC)
 * (PS: I didn't say you where apprehended, so I can't be held responsible for you missing any of the upcoming spectacle)  05:07, October 10, 2011 (UTC)
 * He now is a part of the spectacle whether you like it or not. Something tells me this is gonna end in a blast pretty soon. Or is the deal off? The glorious First Consul of Rome 14:51, October 22, 2011 (UTC)

Truce
Can we assume there was a two-week truce? I haven't the strength to invent eleven days of events. Plus, we should finish it quickly, either by force or by discussion, since I sense people are getting bored. --Nikolai Koshkov, a.k.a Semyon 07:40, October 21, 2011 (UTC)
 * I agree. 12:14, October 21, 2011 (UTC)
 * Unless there was some serious action, there would be no need for it to contine. HORTON11  12:21, October 21, 2011 (UTC)

The revolution finally began? ANd without me? Too sad so maybe we need more action? Aged youngman 13:18, October 21, 2011 (UTC)
 * Thank you for joining in, Mr. Dae-su. Your participation is most appreciated. Together we will defeat the enemies of our people, they are rats and terrorists! I'll shoot 'em with my golden gun! The Master&#39;s Voice 13:35, October 21, 2011 (UTC)
 * HAMR wont kill any innocents, and all enemies of the people will be given the right to a trial. No shootings unless we are fired upon. Aged youngman 13:38, October 21, 2011 (UTC)
 * Some of our rebels are less disciplined, I fear. I will try to prevent it, but looting and plundering will occur. But I will try to do all that is within my power to safeguard the civilians. The Master&#39;s Voice 13:42, October 21, 2011 (UTC)
 * Then we will learn them discipline! This undertaking is to free the people of Southern Kings from the thievery done by communists and federalists. The right of property shall be respected. Aged youngman 13:44, October 21, 2011 (UTC)
 * Then I shall beat some sense into these disorderly, undisciplined rascals! The Master&#39;s Voice 13:46, October 21, 2011 (UTC)
 * Do it. --Nikolai Koshkov, a.k.a Semyon 14:00, October 21, 2011 (UTC)
 * Sure I will. How about I hose them down with water like they do with unruly inmates in prison? ╭∩╮（︶︿︶）╭∩╮ 14:03, October 21, 2011 (UTC)
 * You know we're consuls as in the Roman Republic. How about some classic decimation? --Nikolai Koshkov, a.k.a Semyon 14:07, October 21, 2011 (UTC)
 * That thought has crossed my mind aswell. I guess we might aswell do that, get all Crassus on their ass. La Blaca kinda looks like a consul, doesn't he? ╭∩╮（︶︿︶）╭∩╮ 14:09, October 21, 2011 (UTC)
 * I am negotiating peace in parliament. You two should represent the side of the freed territories. Aged youngman 14:08, October 21, 2011 (UTC)

Bombing Portland
Isn't this a bit overdone? After all other zones with a bigger and more persistent threat weren't bombed thus far. I'l change it to 'encampments outside Portland'. Also, I don't think we should kill guys without their permission. 07:10, October 22, 2011 (UTC)

Still Going?
Is this still happening if so then can my political party (about to reboot) talk about it and do stuff? Kunarian 13:31, October 22, 2011 (UTC)
 * Be careful because I made an article to help the revolt and then people started to talk about blocking me. You should ask if you may first. Aged youngman 13:33, October 22, 2011 (UTC)
 * Thats extreme isn't it really we should be a bit more free to do things but warning heard, I won't be extreme but I will have fun. Kunarian 13:36, October 22, 2011 (UTC)

Shouldn't we end this already? Portland's been bombed twice, and Kim Dae-su wants to surrender. -- 中亚人/中亞人 (Chinasian/Jeffwang16)*跟我谈话 13:42, October 22, 2011 (UTC)
 * I don't want to use violence and am willing to let me assist by Yuri who apparently has made kings his protectorate. But I do have the right to play along. Aged youngman 13:44, October 22, 2011 (UTC)

Compromise
HAMR will split up, one retains the name HAMR, and one into People's Armed Revolutionary Forces (PARF)? -- 中亚人/中亞人 (Chinasian/Jeffwang16)*跟我谈话 13:46, October 22, 2011 (UTC)

This won't end it will it? the Lovian Land Army is about to get involved. Kunarian 13:47, October 22, 2011 (UTC)
 * No split-up. HAMR will remain militant without being military. That is, if we get immunity against prosecution. Aged youngman 13:48, October 22, 2011 (UTC)


 * If LLA will get involved, the two armies would crumble easily, right? --

中亚人/中亞人 (Chinasian/Jeffwang16)*跟我谈话 13:49, October 22, 2011 (UTC)
 * The Brigade is still also involved, blended with rebel forces. They too are a force to be reckoned with. The glorious First Consul of Rome 13:52, October 22, 2011 (UTC)

Whatever. Some members of HAMR will become part of PARF, which will crumble shortly afterwards anyway. -- 中亚人/中亞人 (Chinasian/Jeffwang16)*跟我谈话 13:54, October 22, 2011 (UTC)

The LLA are not the actual military force and their first loyalty is to their leader Hoffmann and Lovia so what benefits Lovia is for them. Kunarian 13:55, October 22, 2011 (UTC)

HAMR is not an army, it is first of all a political organization, though armed and in combat. Aged youngman 13:56, October 22, 2011 (UTC)
 * It's militia is... I'm talking about it's militia becomes PARF and gradually both will crumble and this brutal event will be over. --

中亚人/中亞人 (Chinasian/Jeffwang16)*跟我谈话 13:58, October 22, 2011 (UTC)
 * HAMR wont crumble, I want to keep it active. But only as a political movement. Aged youngman 14:03, October 22, 2011 (UTC)

Namechange
How about that namechange? I mentioned it before and I'll mention it again - this thing is way to big to be considered just "riots" anymore. By now, they are on such a scale and have cost so many lives and destroyed so much property we are clearly dealing with a full-blown rebellion. It is already called that way by the press and the media and most people. Everybody in agreement? The glorious First Consul of Rome 14:04, October 22, 2011 (UTC) I agree Kunarian 14:05, October 22, 2011 (UTC)
 * Agreed. It will become the Northern Lovian Civil War. --

中亚人/中亞人 (Chinasian/Jeffwang16)*跟我谈话 14:06, October 22, 2011 (UTC)
 * 'kay, I'm cool with that name. The glorious First Consul of Rome 14:09, October 22, 2011 (UTC)

Justice
UNLOR is the fucking United Nations!! How can they sentence like that?? This makes no sense at all. They even disagreed with killing that Libyan dicator, they wont sentence me like that!! Aged youngman 14:11, October 22, 2011 (UTC)
 * Agreed. Let's try to keep it real. ;) The glorious First Consul of Rome 14:14, October 22, 2011 (UTC)
 * Actually, Lovia had a speedy court. --

中亚人/中亞人 (Chinasian/Jeffwang16)*跟我谈话 14:15, October 22, 2011 (UTC)
 * But we don't have the death penalty, do we? The glorious First Consul of Rome 14:15, October 22, 2011 (UTC)
 * Actually, we don't have an active court in ANY place. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 14:16, October 22, 2011 (UTC)
 * Even speed court has to allow me to defend myself and to say on what grounds I am sentenced. And again: I surrendered to the UN. Aged youngman 14:17, October 22, 2011 (UTC)

Impossibilities
Seriously what is with these impossibilities? I nuke portland, I nuke the LLA, I mass arrest the LLA. its a bit nuts isn't it, considering your MP's number about the same as the LLA and the LLA are better trained that your MP's. Kunarian 14:18, October 22, 2011 (UTC)
 * Portland has been taken over by the LLA... --

中亚人/中亞人 (Chinasian/Jeffwang16)*跟我谈话 14:19, October 22, 2011 (UTC)

THEN WHY DID YOU PUT IS THERE? AND YOU CANNOT JUST KILL 500 HEAVILY TRAINED ARMED PEOPLE. seriously stop editing and talk. Kunarian 14:22, October 22, 2011 (UTC)
 * I don't agree with nuking, a massacre at Portland and killing me. This needs to be revised by 'normal' people. Aged youngman 14:20, October 22, 2011 (UTC)

Protected
It had to happen at one time. It seems there is a conflict, can anyone explain why? Not all at once please. Let's start with Jeff, then Kunarian, then Daesu and finally TMV (if still online). Now start and tell me what went wrong. 14:24, October 22, 2011 (UTC)
 * Everyone seems to have left now the authorities are here. I will go first then: we were having our little war, I surrendered HAMR. But then I got speed trialed by the UN (?), someone got mad an threw in a hidden army (?) and then the other guy who killed me nuked Portland (?). I say that is not realistic, TMV agrees. Aged youngman 14:28, October 22, 2011 (UTC)
 * Where are you all now? 14:29, October 22, 2011 (UTC)
 * Okay, so no nukes that is obvious. All of Lovia would become unliveable. Also, no trials until the conflict is over. I will try to clean up the page now. 14:30, October 22, 2011 (UTC)


 * Well I began by trying to make the conflict more interesting and to finally give the CNP something to do and something that they have done. I began by acting as the LLA and suddenly somehow all of them get nuked? then they get arrested? and mass murdered? then they expand to 1200 members just for the mass murder? and I am just sitting here like, wtf? Nothing can happen as long as this kind of I will be able to kill everything mentality is existant in Jeff, hopefully he can change a bit and we can get on agian. Kunarian 14:31, October 22, 2011 (UTC)

I already thinned the surrender of HAMR as I think Dae-su intended it: to avoid damage. I left the nukes out, obviously, as well as his trial. So far he is only arrested. Now explain to me what LLA is, where it comes from and what you think it should be doing right now? 14:35, October 22, 2011 (UTC)

My Proposal: Undo everything Jeff, TMV, Youngman, and Kunarian did, and restart from there in a more realistic scenario, with no nukes or mass murdering or "speedy courts". —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 14:37, October 22, 2011 (UTC)
 * Agreed. --Nikolai Koshkov, a.k.a Semyon 14:38, October 22, 2011 (UTC)

I agree with TimeMaster, much better solution and opens the article for interesting expansion. Kunarian 14:38, October 22, 2011 (UTC)

Also, Jeff, why did you add the categories Crime and 2011 8 times??? —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 14:38, October 22, 2011 (UTC)

I think Jeff might need a time-out if he doesn't cool down. Can everyone agree with continuing from where the page is NOW? I need the explicit agreement of a HAMR guy (Daesu) and someone who represents government (TimeMaster?). 14:40, October 22, 2011 (UTC)
 * I am very curious what you intend to remove... I mean, the last day or so things have gotton a bit out of hand but I think we should be very careful not to remove too much. Let us just keep things a little bit realistic. No nukes, no speedy trials, no mass-murders. That's all. The glorious First Consul of Rome 14:42, October 22, 2011 (UTC)

The LLA is what is says on the tin a group of Hunters who believe strongly in the CNP ideology and have had military training and have gone on many hunting expiditions. They come from an older hunting group called something I haven't thought of yet. They are in Oceana and Sylvania and it probably would be acting agianst UNLOR due to the previous events. Kunarian 14:42, October 22, 2011 (UTC)

So a few men armed with hunting gear making some trouble? I think we can add them but they don't pose a threat to UNLOR I believe. Is that correct? 14:44, October 22, 2011 (UTC)
 * This war is really getting more chaotic and tougher to foloow by the day! The glorious First Consul of Rome 14:45, October 22, 2011 (UTC)
 * Can someone fix this sentence please: '3,242 people have died and dozens more remain (mildly) injured.' :) --Nikolai Koshkov, a.k.a Semyon 14:46, October 22, 2011 (UTC)
 * It now says only seven people died, that isn't correct either. Dozens of people died (mostly on the rebel side). Still that's much better then 3000... That's like 9% of our entire population! The glorious First Consul of Rome 14:48, October 22, 2011 (UTC)


 * The LLA is armed with sniper rifles and other weapons and can easily pose a serious threat due to their better ability, which is prominant in hunters of this day especially considering the opposition is mainly comprised of MP's. Kunarian 14:48, October 22, 2011 (UTC)
 * Key thing to note, they do not want to do anything like declare independence or overthrow the government, they want to regain stability for Lovia. Kunarian 14:52, October 22, 2011 (UTC)

The funny thing
Writing a harmless declaration of independence gives you a three months block, while creating a war is not even punished in Lovia :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 14:35, October 22, 2011 (UTC)

Really neither should be punished, just dealt with reasonably. Kunarian 14:37, October 22, 2011 (UTC)

It's because we have no court person... —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 14:37, October 22, 2011 (UTC)
 * OWTB: times are changing. You and Yuri are among our last veterans from that dark era of Lovian history. We now enter a new chapter of Lovian history, and it is a pretty brutal one. The glorious First Consul of Rome 14:44, October 22, 2011 (UTC)
 * Hopefully the LLA can change some of the brutality but yes times are changing just like in any modern nation, especially in these particular times. Kunarian 14:45, October 22, 2011 (UTC)
 * Haha, that'd be a different Lovia than where I am :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 14:45, October 22, 2011 (UTC)
 * Melodramatic. --Nikolai Koshkov, a.k.a Semyon 14:47, October 22, 2011 (UTC)
 * I'm Lovia's Queen of Drama :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 14:47, October 22, 2011 (UTC)
 * I hate to stress this but it seems we need to show the muscles: who holds admin powers again? Right, old Lovia. 14:48, October 22, 2011 (UTC)
 * OWTB if you are the drama queen of Lovia then I am Lovia's Gadaffi! The glorious First Consul of Rome 14:49, October 22, 2011 (UTC)

Game over
There was an agreement that this conflict was to end any time soon, so here is a final scenario I'd back:


 * HAMR surrendered with little harm done and will be put to trial (in agreement with what Daesu declared)
 * The hunting clan makes some trouble in Oceana/Sylvania but is rolled up by UNLOR. Some casualities on both sides OR they join UNLOR in their fight for stability
 * A final raid is made by UNLOR in Clymene and Seven; there is a mayor final battle in Novosevensk that kills a lot of people, including key figures who wish to die. The rest is put to trial. (in agreement with what Semyon/TMV said before)

Now who agrees? 14:53, October 22, 2011 (UTC)

I don't really think that the UNLOR force would be able to "roll up" the LLA. But I'm gunna wait for other peoples opinions. Kunarian 14:55, October 22, 2011 (UTC)
 * Don't forget that UNLOR is the government army and the best chance at restoring peace in a united Lovia. So maybe option two: they join UNLOR? 14:57, October 22, 2011 (UTC)

Clymene should be wrapped up first. Today? And then later battles in Novosevensk (where nikolai dies) and then Kinley (where la blaca dies) over the end of the month. Otherwise, seems good. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 14:58, October 22, 2011 (UTC)
 * This sounds very close to the spectacular end Yuri and I had already agreed on weeks ago. In the final raid, my character(s) are to be killed fighting for what they believe in. Thus I would become a martyr of this war, succesfully entering the Lovian history books before I leave. That would be a worthy end to my wiki-days. I would like to here Koshkov's opinion though, as we are both "consuls" and commanders. The glorious First Consul of Rome 14:58, October 22, 2011 (UTC)

So all we need now is the opinion of Semyon and Daesu. I will open up the page for editing again, I hope everyone will respect this consensus in the making for now. 15:00, October 22, 2011 (UTC)

I personally would like for the LLA to kill off the UNLOR commander in vengance for what he did to HAMR and Portland. The people who within the LLA would then face trial for his murder. Or do something of Importance, because they really don't like the intervention. Kunarian 15:01, October 22, 2011 (UTC)
 * There's not really much more we can do, so I am willing. (btw: what is the LLA's function? They're not mentioned in the article.) --Nikolai Koshkov, a.k.a Semyon 15:03, October 22, 2011 (UTC)


 * They only just came in, they are fresh and well equiped so they can put up a fight. Their aim is to restore order without the brutality of the UNLOR or the brutality of the brigade. That is their opinion of their objectives. Kunarian 15:06, October 22, 2011 (UTC)
 * I'll be right back, I'm going out for an hour Kunarian 15:11, October 22, 2011 (UTC)
 * No problem, you don't have to devote your life to Lovia. :P --Nikolai Koshkov, a.k.a Semyon 15:12, October 22, 2011 (UTC)

UNLOR isn't brutal, Jeffwang only made them perform cruelties without general consent. The UNLOR are in the end peacekeeping troops who's officially law-enshrined goal is to restore order. To take up arms against UNLOR is to take up arms against a democratically elected majority in Congress. 15:22, October 22, 2011 (UTC)

If it was just Jeffwang then the LLA would be restoring order alongside UNLOR but not with it, due to the fact that they opposed military intervention. Also remember that the LLA is not on the side of congress majority. Kunarian 15:29, October 22, 2011 (UTC)
 * The way it looks now with all these new factions joining in, things are starting to become quite complicated and chaotic. Who's fighting who, who's supporting who? It's giving me a headache. There is too much going on for it all to end today - that would be unrealistic, too. The process of driving back the rebel forces and playing out the leaders against one another would start today, and this will result in greatly weakening the rebel's position, while at the same time strengtening the UNLOR forces position. Within a couple of days (probably shortly after the weekend), the final raid would take place and order would be largely restored. Damage will be enormous, the death toll will not be alarmingly high, however. That's what I think is the most realistic scenario. In the end, the last rebels and their commander(s) will hold only one major stronghold, which is taken in by brutal force effectively ending the Civil War once and for all. The glorious First Consul of Rome 15:55, October 22, 2011 (UTC)
 * I like your idea. I still recommend driving the rebels out of Clymene and Kings by tomorrow, a battle of Novosevensk on the 24th, and a battle of Kinley on 25th. The rebellion would essentially end on the 26th or 27th. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 16:03, October 22, 2011 (UTC)
 * That sounds like what I was going for, TM. I believe we are in agreement. Although after the Novosevensk battle(s), the fighting would be on a much, much smaller scale and the rebel forces (or what is left of them) would be so weak and small they are easily rolled up. Without their leaders, they are worthless. A ship cannot sail without a captain - or sails. The glorious First Consul of Rome 16:06, October 22, 2011 (UTC)
 * FYI, First Consul, Koshkov will break with you if you ally with IGPmen, since they are allied to his arch-enemy Shaynovna. --Nikolai Koshkov, a.k.a Semyon 18:33, October 22, 2011 (UTC)
 * They are freed now anyway, and I cannot turn that back again. So either they join us, or they join Shaynova. In the first case, then I might be able to rally Shaynova behind us, let them do our dirty work. Catching two birds with one stone, my friend. Try looking at it purely in a tactical way, and you'll see the wisdom in this. Break with us, and we will be destroyed. Together we stand strong. The glorious First Consul of Rome 18:40, October 22, 2011 (UTC)

Back to the subject, it looks like Lovia is falling to the rebels, not only is there a large though unprofessional force in the north advancing its borders, there is a reasonable though professional force in the south advancing its borders. It's now a two front full on war that will most certainly not end this month. Let's see how interesting we can make this. Kunarian 19:12, October 22, 2011 (UTC)
 * @TMV: Koshkov and co. are highly religious - this is what defines their nationalism. Shaynovna killed their priest - they betray the very thing they're fighting for if they work with the IGP. --Nikolai Koshkov, a.k.a Semyon 19:54, October 22, 2011 (UTC)
 * Wait until you have superiority over the common enemy and then deal with anyone who has betrayed their cause. Kunarian 20:07, October 22, 2011 (UTC)

Name Change, again...
This is no longer the Northern Lovian Civil War but simply the Lovian Civil War, almost every state has been touched by this conflict and the LLA occupied capitol of Noble City is in the south. So I propose we change the name to the Lovian Civil War. Kunarian 19:13, October 22, 2011 (UTC)
 * Agreed. --

中亚人/中亞人 (Chinasian/Jeffwang16)*跟我谈话 19:45, October 22, 2011 (UTC)

Sounds fine. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 19:58, October 22, 2011 (UTC)

Possibly could James Torres join the civil war, since he would like to help the authority's to keep the control. Granero 22:18, October 22, 2011 (UTC)

Sounds good. We'd love to have another UNLOR commander. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 22:20, October 22, 2011 (UTC)

I would like to use my connections to contract several formerly Green berrets and New york mafia men to help the goverment and me in fighting. Granero 22:24, October 22, 2011 (UTC)

Okay. Can you send them into Noble City? —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 22:31, October 22, 2011 (UTC)

Yess. I will send them Granero 22:39, October 22, 2011 (UTC)

Police vs. Mercenary
Both of their jobs are very similar, they are trained for warfare (the Lovian Coastal Police are essentially like that, in Lovia police are kind of like military but not really), and police are good at defense, while mercenaries are better on offensives. I have given enough concessions already, anyway. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 23:38, October 22, 2011 (UTC)

Yes however mercenary's are normally experienced soldiers, and they are both doing their fallback jobs and so with mercs on defence and the police on offence (which the standard military rule to is: you have to have 3 of you to every one of them) then the police are gunna take hits and are gunna be held off for now. The mercs just landed, and are fresh to the conflict, freshness counts. Kunarian 23:42, October 22, 2011 (UTC)

Okay, well the Coastal Police are very experienced at this type of stuff. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 23:43, October 22, 2011 (UTC)

Agreed the current amendment is fine. Kunarian 23:45, October 22, 2011 (UTC)

Fugly layout
I think the layout is pretty fucked up and putting all the images in one row looks pretty ugly too. Shouldn't we spread them around a little better, one right, one left, some space between them? That looks much better. What do you guys think? The glorious First Consul of Rome 08:06, October 23, 2011 (UTC)
 * My opinion hasn't changed: once the conflict is over, we should rewrite the entire article. The conflict is to be divided into 'phases of war', each with a full-text containing the details and a minimum summary. Images would then be spread, displayed in galleries where needed. The way this looks now is indeed not very attractive. 09:41, October 23, 2011 (UTC)
 * That'll be one helluva lot work - it's getting very complicated with all the different people returning to join in the fun. The glorious First Consul of Rome 10:01, October 23, 2011 (UTC)
 * Sure, but just like my current integration of Daesu's efforts into King's main historical body it will be rewarding. And it is needed as you pointed out yourself. 10:04, October 23, 2011 (UTC)
 * We will still keep a timeline, though, we'll need a prose section as well. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 12:19, October 23, 2011 (UTC)

Bombing
You are going too far, killing boatloads of police is unfair, especially since highly trained military personnel from UNLOR are just as good as those mercenaries. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 12:35, October 23, 2011 (UTC)

I am hardly going too far or being unfair, I have Jets and I will use them, and the merc's would hardly think twice to save themselves. and plus the "highly trained military personnel" are mainly MP's which are not as good as merc's. Theres a reason countries hire them.

We need to clear the docks. We use bombs, we push the cops out. Its a war, a civil war. We will try to get the enemy out any way we can without killing civilians. Kunarian 12:40, October 23, 2011 (UTC)

Besides casualites = killed and wounded. Kunarian 12:41, October 23, 2011 (UTC)
 * The rebels bombing anything at all is unrealistic if you ask me. In my vision, most of the rebels would not be very well-equipped and what little heavy material they have would be taken from UNLOR forces they had defeated or captured. Let's keep it real, whatever happened to kalasjnikovs and molotov cocktails? The glorious First Consul of Rome 12:42, October 23, 2011 (UTC)
 * They are mercenary's hired by the LLA. It is realistic. Plus they took it to the next level with helicopters and artillery. Kunarian 12:44, October 23, 2011 (UTC)

Hey, I didn't bring any helicopters in. You just said there were some. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 12:48, October 23, 2011 (UTC)

Helicopters were here before the LLA was, they were brought in along with artillery from the USA, which would almost certainly be experiencing protests due to this so any futher military intervention would be a no go for the USA and Alexander Kameron would hardly want to spend too much more on his mercenary's Kunarian 12:50, October 23, 2011 (UTC)

That company will be dissolved and have its money used to pay for the war after the end of this war. :D I just found the helicopter note so that's good. They can be added back. But also, you are the one godding. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 13:15, October 23, 2011 (UTC)
 * Be sure not to enter in an editing war, changing back and forth.  13:18, October 23, 2011 (UTC)

Okay, can you protect the page? —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 13:18, October 23, 2011 (UTC)
 * Already done. I had to, if you two keep playing 'it is' 'it is not'. Talk it out please. 13:19, October 23, 2011 (UTC)

The company is not going be disolved because they are beyond the Lovian courts, they are international and besides its not the company its the people. Also I hardly godded I used my resources. Kunarian 13:20, October 23, 2011 (UTC)
 * Remember we have the International Criminal Court which isn't limited to Lovian boundaries. 13:22, October 23, 2011 (UTC)
 * I do remember but as I said it isn't the company its Alexander Kameron using the money of the company. Kunarian 13:23, October 23, 2011 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure what the controversy is about; is it the helicopters or the company-guy? 13:25, October 23, 2011 (UTC)
 * The helicopters and I have been proven right and so we need to reverse TM's changes. Kunarian 13:27, October 23, 2011 (UTC)

Helicopters doesn't have anything to do with the problem. The problem is Kunarian is making the war going his way even though only 50 (ish) mercenaries are left and UNLOR is going to win. Things should stay democratic in Lovia, and therefore the UNLOR force NEEDS to win. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 13:27, October 23, 2011 (UTC)
 * It was already decided government would win. The rebels are having their final offensive today, and by tomorrow they have to be either killed or arrested. If he wants to deploy some heli's that's fine with me, as long as we take them down within a matter of minutes. 13:31, October 23, 2011 (UTC)
 * If you want the government to win then it will need to be a diplomatic solution in Noble City, trying to pin down dates for character driven things will hardly make it work. Kunarian 13:32, October 23, 2011 (UTC)

I am winning with superior forces and tactics and I have more than 50ish mercenarys, much more plus you keep thinking mercenary's are weak ex-soldiers which is hardly the case! Plus we were never going to take away democracy. You just keep trying to smear me. Kunarian 13:30, October 23, 2011 (UTC)
 * Keep in mind the largest army in the world back us. For every well-trained mercenary we can deploy over 10 elite soldiers. 13:32, October 23, 2011 (UTC)
 * I'm guessing we'll all end up either dead or in court, then. Well, so be it. Let's face it as real men, comrades! The glorious First Consul of Rome 13:33, October 23, 2011 (UTC)
 * Impossible the USA would never back something like that nor would its people allow, be realistic at least. Kunarian 13:34, October 23, 2011 (UTC)
 * You are being unrealistic... The mercenaries would be not be able to get to Lovia--You can't get in, unless you are for UNLOR. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 13:36, October 23, 2011 (UTC)
 * Trust me, it will be over sooner then you think. But the trial that follows will drag on for ages. Whether we die or live, we will be martyrs and we will go down in Lovian history. The glorious First Consul of Rome 13:37, October 23, 2011 (UTC)

Infobox
What do you all think of the infobox/map? I for one think it makes the page look a lot neater. 13:00, October 23, 2011 (UTC)
 * It's awesome. The map looks great and it is a good thing to see all the parties and all the commanders written down, makes thing a lot easier to follow. The glorious First Consul of Rome 13:02, October 23, 2011 (UTC)
 * Once the conflict is over, we will have to ad 'outcome' and 'casualties' too. 13:04, October 23, 2011 (UTC)
 * Of course. I only hope we will be able to keep the casualties at a minimum. To see 3000+ die, as someone wrote yesterday, is pretty ridiculous if you ask me. That would mean the population of entire states is decimated and villages will be whiped of the map. We better stay in check with reality and make sure things don't get too severe too severe. It's bad enough as it is. The glorious First Consul of Rome 13:07, October 23, 2011 (UTC)
 * I agree. 13:08, October 23, 2011 (UTC)
 * I think a hundred dead is indeed quite enough. Also, there'll be a global outcry if too many UNLOR soldiers die. --Nikolai Koshkov, a.k.a Semyon 13:11, October 24, 2011 (UTC)

@Kunarian
You don't seem to agree with the existing consensus. UNLOR is big and it is strong and it will win. I urge you to adapt to what is agreed upon by the other users. Tonight UNLOR will have it's great offensive, effectively whipping out all resistance. Tomorrow we can do some cleaning-up and then all will be over. Play it like that or don't play at all. 13:36, October 23, 2011 (UTC)
 * I agree. Let UNLOR win or we might have to block you. This is getting sh*t enough and Lovia won't get sh*ttned no more. --

中亚人/中亞人 (Chinasian/Jeffwang16)*跟我谈话 13:39, October 23, 2011 (UTC)

Yout threatening to block me for being realistic and "lovia won't be sh*ttened no more" says the nuke friendly maniac. I suggest we have a diplomatic agreement in Noble City, as its practically impossible for them to make such an effective offensive. Frankly trying to wipe out all of my troops in a night will be impossible and the fact that you have the majority of troops in Noble City makes it impossible to wipe out the others. I suggest we have a diplomatic soulution that allows you to take the american forces and use them as the big offensive troops to wipe out the rioters leaders. Kunarian 13:41, October 23, 2011 (UTC)
 * The diplomatic solution wasn't working. Let's force an outcome and agree to ceasefire like the Korean War... --

中亚人/中亞人 (Chinasian/Jeffwang16)*跟我谈话 13:43, October 23, 2011 (UTC)
 * I'm not going to block you for being stubborn, that would be unfair. But neither am I going to talk. An agreement between the majority of users exist and it will be respected. We are a small archipelago with a small population of which only an armed minority is rebelling. I don't care how strong you think you are, you're facing military powers of a global scale. 13:44, October 23, 2011 (UTC)
 * If we can't force an outcome, "Bring out the NATOs" --

中亚人/中亞人 (Chinasian/Jeffwang16)*跟我谈话 13:46, October 23, 2011 (UTC)
 * UNLOR is nothing else than a branch of the US army, operating under UN flag. No difference with NATO, right? 13:47, October 23, 2011 (UTC)
 * No, I put NATO is coming but someone made it into just the US army. NATO is US + the Western European countries' army and milita. --

中亚人/中亞人 (Chinasian/Jeffwang16)*跟我谈话 13:48, October 23, 2011 (UTC) I am following that agreement! Frankly I proposed the most realistic solution so far without any fairy tale american clean up force arriving. Its simple: Diplomatic solution, American forces move to the north, Resistance wiped out, Yay for the admins... there simple. Jesus read what I am saying honestly instead of going: how can we kill as many people as possible. Kunarian 13:50, October 23, 2011 (UTC)
 * Then agree to LLA becoming captured because right now UNLOR is portrayed as a horrible army charging against the glorious rebels... WTF? --

中亚人/中亞人 (Chinasian/Jeffwang16)*跟我谈话 13:51, October 23, 2011 (UTC)

@Kunarian: I can't follow what you're saying. We can't just charge but should first talk and then charge nonetheless? Am I reading you that wrong? 13:52, October 23, 2011 (UTC)

Okay here it is: We agree that the fighting is getting too extreme, UNLOR proposes peace terms, Alenxander goes and talks, the agreement is that he will be taken to court for all the consequences of the Noble City Battle while the LLA are left to be free as they were fighting to stop violence, Then the american forces in Noble city which would be pinned there by fighting are now free to do other things, they move to shut down the rioters in the north and the problem is over. Kunarian 13:56, October 23, 2011 (UTC)
 * I see, LLA goes free in exchange for putting its leader to trial. Then we strike against the rebels in the north. Sure, sounds fine. I'll add it and unprotect the page. 13:59, October 23, 2011 (UTC)

Or, let the Americans occupy some areas like the Dominican Republic and Iraq. -- 中亚人/中亞人 (Chinasian/Jeffwang16)*跟我谈话 13:58, October 23, 2011 (UTC)

Nope, because thats stupid and would prolong military reistance, you can't military everything and try to kill everything. Kunarian 14:00, October 23, 2011 (UTC)
 * Why not? Lovia would be chaos (or ch-ows) without anything of the sort. Or just keep UN peacekeepers... --

中亚人/中亞人 (Chinasian/Jeffwang16)*跟我谈话 14:02, October 23, 2011 (UTC)


 * We should work with the structure we got, which is UNLOR. @Kunarian: you like the line about the peace agreement between UNLOR and LLA? 14:04, October 23, 2011 (UTC)
 * Technically UNLOR are peacekeepers anyway, this bloody battle made UNLOR... "American Army"? *******************, why? --

中亚人/中亞人 (Chinasian/Jeffwang16)*跟我谈话 14:06, October 23, 2011 (UTC)
 * I can only refer to the mandate which is described at UNLOR's page. If you think they handled outside that mandate you should address the UN, but I think they didn't do anything wrong. 14:08, October 23, 2011 (UTC)

Yes the line is fine, if you unprotect the page I need to reverse TM's edit when he though the helicopters didn't exist. It makes it look like he shot down 3 more fighters than I had. and meeses up one or two other things. Kunarian 14:09, October 23, 2011 (UTC)

Kunarian, stop saying you are being realistic. A bunch of hunters and 50 mercenaries are NOT FUCKING ABLE to beat UNLOR. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 14:24, October 23, 2011 (UTC)

Nope, but that isn't my forces my forces were much more, plus stop raging, peace has been made. Kunarian 14:25, October 23, 2011 (UTC)

Sh*t the war
No more proposals and Yays or Nays, let's just end this war.

Compromise
-- 中亚人/中亞人 (Chinasian/Jeffwang16)*跟我谈话 13:37, October 23, 2011 (UTC)
 * Noble City, Sylvania, nor Oceana can be taken over
 * Southern Kings can be part of HAMR
 * Seven and Clymene can secede
 * The rest will stay and let's just say the Lovian Civil War is over

Discussion
Discussion is open... -- 中亚人/中亞人 (Chinasian/Jeffwang16)*跟我谈话 13:37, October 23, 2011 (UTC)
 * An interesting new perspective, worthy of considering. The glorious First Consul of Rome 13:39, October 23, 2011 (UTC)
 * We had an agreement TMV and I expect you to keep to it. Tonight Seven and Clymene are raided. (Kings already is in UNLOR hands). 13:40, October 23, 2011 (UTC)
 * Yes, that is correct. We have reached a gentleman's agreement. I will keep my word, being the honourable man that I am. This is my last day alive on Lovian soil and by next week, I will buried in it. The glorious First Consul of Rome 13:42, October 23, 2011 (UTC)
 * Are you suiciding? --

中亚人/中亞人 (Chinasian/Jeffwang16)*跟我谈话 13:44, October 23, 2011 (UTC)
 * Nope, I am going to resist until the last moment, but it has already been agreed upon that I will die in the final raid. I will keep my word. The survivors will be put on trial like other major trials from the past, much like the Galahad v. The Brigade Trial, but much, much bigger. But after tonight, the violence will largely stop. Some small groups of rebels may survive to fight another day, but they will be wiped out or captured tomorrow. The glorious First Consul of Rome 13:50, October 23, 2011 (UTC)
 * No, he will be killed in a heroic fashion. @TMV: figured out the circumstances of your death yet? 13:48, October 23, 2011 (UTC)
 * I will engage in a major shootout with UNLOR forces, in which I receive numerous wounds to the body. Still firing my automatic weapon, I will collapse on the balcony and tumble off, very Scarface-like. The glorious First Consul of Rome 13:51, October 23, 2011 (UTC)

... yeah, erm... -- 中亚人/中亞人 (Chinasian/Jeffwang16)*跟我谈话 13:52, October 23, 2011 (UTC)

Suggest we delete all of this Civil War and make Lovia normal again. This civil war is causing everyone to become bombastic and heroic. Everyone is going out of his roof. 62.195.163.100 13:55, October 23, 2011 (UTC)
 * No, this is a very good article... --

中亚人/中亞人 (Chinasian/Jeffwang16)*跟我谈话 13:56, October 23, 2011 (UTC)
 * No way, José. The glorious First Consul of Rome 14:01, October 23, 2011 (UTC)

Could someone add "NATO has came" to the article please? -- 中亚人/中亞人 (Chinasian/Jeffwang16)*跟我谈话 13:56, October 23, 2011 (UTC)
 * No need for NATO, we have the UN (Americans, Canadians, Mexicans) and that should suffice. No Brits or French required.  13:57, October 23, 2011 (UTC)
 * Frankly we can solve the problem with current forces, we just need peace in the south. Kunarian 13:59, October 23, 2011 (UTC)


 * After this, bring in the ICC, that is if you agree... --

中亚人/中亞人 (Chinasian/Jeffwang16)*跟我谈话 14:01, October 23, 2011 (UTC)


 * Dae-su has agreed to have a permanent ceasefire. --

中亚人/中亞人 (Chinasian/Jeffwang16)*跟我谈话 14:18, October 23, 2011 (UTC)
 * Then he can now prepare himself for the trial that soon awaits him. The glorious First Consul of Rome 14:19, October 23, 2011 (UTC)

Dae-su has fled to South Korea for political asylum... sorry! -- 中亚人/中亞人 (Chinasian/Jeffwang16)*跟我谈话 14:20, October 23, 2011 (UTC)
 * Please don't decide in other people's place if they flee the country. Daesu already was arrested yesterday and agreed to be trialed. 14:21, October 23, 2011 (UTC)

Fleeing
There aren't too many options for us rebels. One option is surrender, another option is to continue fighting and either die by the hands of our enemies, or be captured alive by them. That's about it. A daring break-out to another part of the country is a third, yet unlikely possiblity. Fleeing the country unseen, at this point, is impossible. Especially if you are a prominent rebel leader. Let us keep in check with reality, everybody. Reality is grim sometimes. The glorious First Consul of Rome 14:22, October 23, 2011 (UTC)
 * Daesu surrendered yesterday. He was arrested and agreed to a trial. If he wants to flee, it should be at least he himself who says so. 14:23, October 23, 2011 (UTC)
 * Sure, but even then, it is impossible that he (or anyone else, for that matter) would be able to flee Lovia at this point. It's just not possible, we are a country in war, our borders are closely watched, there is no way a figure that prominent could sneak away. Maybe within Lovia, they could, but not leave Lovia altogether. The glorious First Consul of Rome 14:27, October 23, 2011 (UTC)
 * It is indeed not very likely an attempt would be successful. What matters most is however that people are allowed to control their own identities. Daesu is Daesu and only Daesu can decide what it is Daesu wants. 14:29, October 23, 2011 (UTC)
 * Whatever he wants, he has already decided to surrender and he has been taken into custody. Once you make such big decisions, they cannot be turned back. It would just @#!*%  up the entire timeline. He's captured and awaiting trial. Period. The glorious First Consul of Rome 14:31, October 23, 2011 (UTC)

Just a note, we agreed before all advances will be halted today. Then, Novosevensk will be invaded tomorrow, killing Koshkov, and then Kinley the next day, killing La Blaca. Then a few resistances will be put down on the 26th, ending the rebellion. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 14:30, October 23, 2011 (UTC)
 * TM, you are right, that is what we agreed upon. The 26th sounds fine with me, although it might just as easily end today, for all I care. The glorious First Consul of Rome 14:44, October 23, 2011 (UTC)

First I'm like Jesus, I died and I came back. Now I'm like Houdini, I'm imprisoned on an unescapable island and I break free. I truly am a man of great talent! Aged youngman 05:10, October 24, 2011 (UTC)
 * You are a man of great talent. Use that great talent of yours in the court room when you stand trial; you'll need it. Blame it on the general, right? The glorious First Consul of Rome 08:22, October 24, 2011 (UTC)

Reasons
Why did all this happen? We know the events, but I'm not so sure about the motivations. I understand the first part (because I wrote it :P) but why did HAMR suddenly act in the middle of a truce, when there had been no action there before? Why is the LLA involved? I have no problem with these events, as long as they're realistic, and well-explained. :) --Nikolai Koshkov, a.k.a Semyon 07:37, October 24, 2011 (UTC)
 * I believe HAMR is a group of guys who want more autonomy for southern Kings (a sentiment I created when writing King's history). Basically a bunch of radicals who tried to take advantage from the situation we're in. LLA were unhappy with the ongoing riots and decided to defend justice on their own. They don't like the foreign intervention, even though it clearly is what saved us.  08:12, October 24, 2011 (UTC)
 * I understand that. :) However, why did they suddenly start fighting halfway through the conflict, with no prior disturbances? --Nikolai Koshkov, a.k.a Semyon 12:31, October 24, 2011 (UTC)
 * Perhaps they didn't join right away because they feared the rebellion would be short-lived. Once the rebels began making progress the HAMR guys and the others' attitude towards the conflict changed. It was at that point that they began their campaign, probably more or less independent form the other rebel camps. The glorious First Consul of Rome 12:59, October 24, 2011 (UTC)
 * Okay, seems reasonable. By the way, I started the next stage of the war. Due to betrayal we've (momentarily) lost Novosevensk. --Nikolai Koshkov, a.k.a Semyon 13:03, October 24, 2011 (UTC)
 * Fine with me. Pretty cool action bwt with the guy asking too much question, Mr. Koshkov. They should remember not to mess with rebels like us. The glorious First Consul of Rome 13:06, October 24, 2011 (UTC)
 * Indeed. This is the beginning of the end. I'm still undecided whether to die or to flee abroad and form a government in exile. --Nikolai Koshkov, a.k.a Semyon 13:08, October 24, 2011 (UTC)
 * Quick question: should I spell your name La Blaca or LaBlaca? --Nikolai Koshkov, a.k.a Semyon 13:10, October 24, 2011 (UTC)
 * Either way is fine with me. ;) The glorious First Consul of Rome 13:13, October 24, 2011 (UTC)
 * Yeah, you have more important things to think about. :P Still, we should be consistent. --Nikolai Koshkov, a.k.a Semyon 13:14, October 24, 2011 (UTC)
 * True, true. The article writes I. G. La Blaca, and not LaBlaca, if you really wanna know. I guess that's the correct way to write it, then. The glorious First Consul of Rome 13:16, October 24, 2011 (UTC)
 * Damn... The guy is 89 years old... --O u WTBsjrief-mich 13:19, October 24, 2011 (UTC)