Talk:Liberal Democrats

Those are some troublesome viewpoints you guys have... Lots of great ideas for radical reform, and that is a compliment you see. 18:07, November 26, 2009 (UTC)
 * Thank you, HRH --Bucurestean 18:19, November 26, 2009 (UTC)

Invitation...
I would like to invite the members of this party to join a dialogue on how we should reform the Lovian political system after the elections. All ideas are welcome on this page. I look forward to hear from you guys, 14:25, December 5, 2009 (UTC)
 * Thank you for the invitation, Sir Medvedev. I'm looking forward to our coming dialogues. --Bucurestean 12:27, December 6, 2009 (UTC)

I think the Noble City state is impossible. Many MOTC would vote aginst Pierlot McCrooke 12:29, December 6, 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm always willing to discuss. If the States become democratic and get more influence, we will consider that as a victory, even though Sylvania would stay as it currently is. --Bucurestean 12:40, December 6, 2009 (UTC)

Vote LD
Imagine I support the LDs, and I want to vote LD - as the poster says - who do I vote for then? 13:22, December 6, 2009 (UTC)
 * How do you mean, in the Federal elections? I think you should vote for Aesop, however he's got another membership . (Ehem, the party is still developping, it could take a couple of years :p. It's about quality, not quantity) --Bucurestean 13:25, December 6, 2009 (UTC)
 * Well, Aesop is a member of both the LDs and WLP, so he has chosen to be a non-partisan candidate. So, I can't vote LD  13:27, December 6, 2009 (UTC)
 * Well, I still have time until my departure to find some members. The elections start next year. This party has existed for one week or so, and we still have 3 weeks until the elections. --Bucurestean 13:30, December 6, 2009 (UTC)
 * True! 13:38, December 6, 2009 (UTC)


 * I would like to make a comment on the quotation 'the only political party that says what has to change'. I believe other parties, including the Progressive Democrats, are working on very concrete proposals. Perhaps you can ad my comment to the 'critics'  14:00, December 6, 2009 (UTC)
 * Okay, okay, I got the message: you want me to be a Liberal Democrat. Fine with me. --Lars 15:20, December 6, 2009 (UTC)

The Noble City Times
The Noble City Times:
 * "What is the primary idea of the LD campaign? Will you be radical reformers if elected? And who (which member) should the Lovians vote for, as your candidate for the Prime Ministership?"

16:39, December 11, 2009 (UTC)
 * If you do not know who to vote for I would be glad to help you out Harold Freeman 16:41, December 11, 2009 (UTC)
 * Haha! You know, for me it's not as easy as for you guys, to vote. As a king, I wish to retain some "neutrality", or at least a notion of pluralism. So I'll try to vote for the most capable people, regardless which party they're in.  16:46, December 11, 2009 (UTC)
 * Very wise spoken, sir! This party is not 'radical' but we do wish to see some change. You live in Belgium right? You could compare us to the Mouvement Réformateur Harold Freeman 16:58, December 11, 2009 (UTC)
 * I'll come this weekend with a declaration for the press --Bucurestean 19:28, December 11, 2009 (UTC)

Declaration
Dear Journalist,

We, of the Liberal Democrats, want to see change. Unlike the other parties, we are well-known for our viewpoints on reform. But to be honest, most of these points are plans for in the future. We definitely want to see the political system work. None of us would be willing to see an inactive Congress. It's the place where all decisions are made concerning Lovia, our country. If there aren't any Congressmen or Congresswomen, there is nobody to make any decisions. There would be no progress. We, of the Liberal Democrats, want to see some fresh action. A democratic one. Now I will explain why most of our plans, like the State councils, are only future plans. They can only be created when there are enough citizens. That's why we support a new wave of immigration, to keep this country rolling. We don't want to be a failed state, we definitely want to be more than that. We need more inhabitants and they will only come if they are received with respect and if they can see a bright future in Lovia, if they know that they have rights and if they have the possibility to build up a carreer.

Thus no, we won't be those radical reformers. We won't change our state form and we are not willing to discourage people to become Mayor of a place. Of course we want to see change, but only if the time is right. You've read our ideals and of course we want to accomplish them, but only if Lovia would become better thanks to these reforms. Today, not all of these plans are feasible. May that be clear.

Yes, we also have other plans. Our other viewpoints may look a bit related to those of our Progressive friends. They certainly are. Healtchare and education for everyone, a good infrastructure and the protection of our environment. A mixed economy, more investments in sustainable energy and innovation. We want to make discrimination based on gender, religion, race, ancestry and appearance illegal. Legalize abortus and euthanasia, make Lovia a better place!

Choose the Liberal Democrats, vote for progress, liberty, democracy and activity!


 * I actually asked some questions :p Not a piece of propaganda . But I'll destillate the useful statements myself ^^. 15:32, December 12, 2009 (UTC)
 * Zucht. Ik net een mooie speech voor de pers :( --Bucurestean 15:40, December 12, 2009 (UTC)

Declaration (2) Prime Minister
This one will be simple:
 * Momentarily it's not clear whether
 * Lars Washington
 * or
 * Harold Freeman
 * is going to candidize for the post of premmy. --Bucurestean 15:42, December 12, 2009 (UTC)
 * What about H.F.? He seems to be around a lot and he's new and fresh. 15:44, December 12, 2009 (UTC)
 * He is on his way doing a Van Rompuyke: comming in as a refreshment and getting one thing after another without really asking for it. Way to go Harold! 15:49, December 12, 2009 (UTC)
 * We should discuss this with both members. --Bucurestean 15:56, December 12, 2009 (UTC)
 * This is going really fast. Not that I would turn down such an offer, but we should see what Lars says first. And what is a van rompyke? Harold Freeman 16:49, December 12, 2009 (UTC)
 * Van Rompuy, the current European "president". --Bucurestean 18:55, December 12, 2009 (UTC)

Only members - Viewpoints. If you have any, please add and vote!

 * First version
 * However we dislike the NATO, we do want to have a tight relationship with the United States (being our great neighbor). Next to that, our goal is to become member of the NAFTA and better our relationships with Mexico, Canada and Japan, which is necessary for our trade agreement (however Japan is not a member of the NAFTA).
 * --Bucurestean 19:59, December 11, 2009 (UTC)
 * --Lars Washington 15:46, December 12, 2009 (UTC)
 * Sorry but I support neutrality. We should remain open for trade agreements but not pick sides in foreign matters Harold Freeman 16:58, December 12, 2009 (UTC)
 * It's about the NAFTA? Of course we can trade freely with any other country, but a membership of the NAFTA would be a big advantage. --Bucurestean 18:54, December 12, 2009 (UTC)


 * New versions
 * Our party wants Lovia to stand for neutrality in the world.
 * --Bucurestean 19:07, December 12, 2009 (UTC)
 * Harold Freeman 16:46, December 14, 2009 (UTC)


 * Another goal of ours is to become member of the NAFTA. A membership of this international organization would be a big advantage for the commercial trade in Lovia.
 * --Bucurestean 19:07, December 12, 2009 (UTC)
 * Harold Freeman 16:46, December 14, 2009 (UTC)

Excuse me for bursting in into your private discussions. I was just wandering: why NAFTA? Here are some numbers: I am just wondering; wouldn't we be - figurally speaking - trampled by the economic giants that constitute NAFTA? -- 07:27, December 18, 2009 (UTC)
 * NAFTA's combined surface: 21.588.638
 * NAFTA's combined population: 430.495.039
 * Lovia's population: 23,375

Prime Minister
We need to have a candidate. It's not my goal to become Prime Minister of Lovia, thus the Liberal Democrats should chose between Harold Freeman and Lars Washington. Would one of you guys like to be Prime Minister? --Bucurestean 20:01, December 11, 2009 (UTC)
 * I probably am not allowed to post this here, but please excuse me. Wouldn't it be nice to have our first black PM? He could be Van Rompuy and Obama in one! (note my comment above). 15:51, December 12, 2009 (UTC)
 * Why not a first woman PM? Or even better: a black female! I don't have anything against it. Will you help us making it feasible? A coalition of our parties or so, with one PM candidate? (A) --Bucurestean 15:58, December 12, 2009 (UTC)
 * I believe my party can't take any more reforms/coalitions for now, even reform has its boundaries. But I will support members from your party first (after mine of course). PS would like a second term, no business denying that!   16:03, December 12, 2009 (UTC)
 * Hahaha, giving H.F. false hope eh! --Bucurestean 16:07, December 12, 2009 (UTC)
 * I might vote for him, I think he is a warm person who knows what he is doing. A liberal too. Or perhaps I am just 'possitively discriminating' him... 16:14, December 12, 2009 (UTC)
 * Thank you, mister Medvedev for so much credit. Are you not afraid of the LD candidacy? Harold Freeman 17:08, December 12, 2009 (UTC)

That seat
I would like to ask about that seat I should have taken around new years day. I know I have been absent for some time due to my winter holiday and lots of work afterward. I was only curious if I could take it now. I am not being impolite am I? Harold Freeman 16:15, January 18, 2010 (UTC)

Change comes from within
During the elections, change was a core issue of our campaign. It is not certain our coalition will get its PM elected, but we will have the greatest faction in Congress. These were the first elections for our party and we have already achieved this much. I do however feel the need to stress that change comes from within. After the elections, we will renew the democratic structures of our party and think about our future. By changing ourselves, we will send a message to Lovia: freedom and democracy are ours, we should treasure them! Harold Freeman 14:07, January 21, 2010 (UTC)


 * That sounds very promosing. What may those changes be, mr. Freeman? Dr. Magnus 14:09, January 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * We need to become more liberal: people should not be bound by party decisions, we should also have good relations with our neighbors on the left-right axis, instead of attacking them over and over again. Harold Freeman 14:12, January 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * I feel this is the start of a fine era of Lovian politics, mr. Freeman! I like this new style. You are not quite as outspoken as your predecessor Bucurestean has been. With you I feel we can all cooporate and work together. Dr. Magnus 14:17, January 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * I do not wish to be hateful against you or your party, but I doubt there will be an intense cooperation either. As I said, the liberal can't be just a name. Harold Freeman 14:23, January 21, 2010 (UTC)

End the coalition with the Walden Libertarian Party (Coalition LD+WLP) on January 28
Every LD member is asked to vote --Bucurestean 14:40, January 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * --Bucurestean 14:40, January 21, 2010 (UTC) (I want to remain loyal to our Libertarians, but I would also like to give our new party leader a chance to give the party a new image)
 * Harold Freeman 14:44, January 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * --Lars Washington 14:57, January 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * -Signed by Super Warmonkey, please refer to these pages for more: Super Warmonkey (talk • contribs) 20:42, January 21, 2010 (UTC)

It is my opinion that the process of constructing the coalition was doubtful, the formula has proven to fail and that it is not even legal to let it continue. Harold Freeman 14:44, January 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * (Removed votes of non-members)
 * (WLP) i find this a very sad thing.  17:05, January 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * (WLP) I believe in a good coalition Pierlot McCrooke 14:42, January 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * Quite a pity the coalition might be failing even before the elections ended. I know I'm not to choose sides in these kind of matters, and I don't, but I always liked the cooperative element of coalitions like these. 14:47, January 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * Only too bad that (1) it is not really working and (2) there is a major ideological distance between our parties. We only have in common that there should change some things around here. Harold Freeman 14:52, January 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * Of course. But the goal (as far as I'm concerned) was: getting one candidate to be able to get a non-PD Premmy elected. Right? 14:53, January 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * Indeed, so after the elections there is no use in keeping the coalition. Harold Freeman 14:55, January 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * What an outspoken vision you all got . @Harold: if I may give you some advice, like from one chairman to another? As leader of a party it is good to show initiative, but one must always keep in mind that you represent the party and thus the opinion of a majority. I hope you don't mind a bit of 'constructive criticism'? 12:53, January 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * Not at all but I still believe there is no use in keeping the coalition. Harold Freeman 14:56, January 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * I do not seek to remove your vote Andy, since this is an LD meeting. But that is the very same reason that makes me doubt about the validity of your vote. It clearly states 'all LD members are asked to vote'. 14:55, January 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * Well, Yuri, this is a free wiki, is it not? -- 17:07, January 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * I just felt a contradiction in telling someone not to interfere by interfering myself.  17:32, January 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * Contradictions, contradictions; Alas, how ambiguous life is! -- 18:27, January 23, 2010 (UTC)

Congratulations + work to do
Congratulations on behalf of the PD. Also, I would like to invite the LD in a 'five point dialogue' about the reform that awaits us. It seems best to me if we first talk about a shared proposal, instead of each making our own proposal in Congress. 11:32, January 28, 2010 (UTC)

Research LD elections
--Bucurestean 17:37, January 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * Is the last graph about votes received by LD party members, or votes given by your party? -- 18:13, January 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * Received, sorry I'm a bit vague ;) --Bucurestean 18:34, January 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * 29% van het totale aantal stemmen heeft de LD gekregen, dat moet het laten zien ;) . Sorry I couldn't explain it in English :S --Bucurestean 18:35, January 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * Oh, right . -- 18:36, January 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * Too bad none of us made it to PM, but I am confident mr. Medvedev will do fine. Harold Freeman 11:52, January 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * Indeed. When is your talkshow going to take place? --Bucurestean 12:37, January 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * I completely forgot! Sorry Harold, I will have to alter my statement a little before publishing it. I will send in mine tomorrow. 12:47, January 29, 2010 (UTC)

Government
The LCP leaded by Pierius Magnus is constantly spreading hatred. That's why I do not wish to govern together with the LCP if it is included. What's your opinion on this? --Bucurestean 12:26, January 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * I am not spreading hatred Bucu. That is a lie. I haver never spread hatred, and the LCP has never ever spread harted. We are a very moderate party, very mild. We have always condemned violence and we will always do. When have we ever spread hatred? We support the monarchy. We support democracy. And we do not wish people like you insulting us in the way you do. It is you who spreads the hatred, you are trying your hardest to create a hostile envirment to the LCP and everything it stands for. And you shall not succeed. Dr. Magnus 12:29, January 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * Please stop acting like this. Other members of the LD has told me they do wish to try and govern with us, and discuss things. Mano a mano. We should work together, not against each other. Dr. Magnus 12:31, January 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * Just keep out of our party. Would ya? --Bucurestean 12:32, January 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * You keep talking about the LCP aswell. I do not want the other LD members to get the wrong impression here. Dr. Magnus 12:38, January 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * I was just asking their opinion on some facts. You're the one who invaded our party to manipulate them. Just leave our party alone. --Bucurestean 12:39, January 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * Bucu, if i may give advice, dont respond to Pieiruss. It seems he only wants 'aandacht' Pierlot McCrooke 12:40, January 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * Please guys, go back to your talk pages if you want to fight. I see I don't have the possibility to have my own opinion, nor can I have a simple discussion with other members of my own party. Maybe I have to talk them privately, since everything here is rotten? --Bucurestean 12:42, January 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * What you, Bucu, present as facts, are just your personal opinions. The way you see things. They are not facts. Dr. Magnus 12:43, January 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * I didn't even get the possibility to tell them why, what and how, because I'm constantly getting attacked. --Bucurestean 12:44, January 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * Now you know how I feel, Bucu. Exactly my thoughts. Dr. Magnus 12:58, January 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * There is only one person to blame for that... --Bucurestean 13:00, January 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * Not a person, a media: la Quotidienne and its non-neutral reporters. People like you and Pierlot McCrooke. Take you newspaper and its reporters and stick it where the sun don't shine, I've just about had it with your biased articles and your spreading of hatred. Dr. Magnus 13:18, January 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * You guys are funny. First you communists write a decree on newnation.wikia which explicitely says that you want to overthrow the government and establish a republic. Then you recruit people (how come) to support you, just like a terrorist organisation. Following you're constantly surpressing us, spreading hatred, constantly terrorizing us and trying to divide us. But no, you're a peaceful man. How many times you've said you did it all for power? How many times should you've been blocked last month? Don't be hypocrite. Only a blind man would not see what you are doing. --Bucurestean 13:24, January 30, 2010 (UTC)

Ok, let me stop you right there: you are mixing us up with the IGP again. It was Dietrich Honecker who wrote that decree on newnation.wikia. Check your sources man. It is all nonsense: The only thing I did do was recruit members from other wikias, and telling others to do the same. Because a one man party does not stand a chance against people like you. Dr. Magnus 13:41, January 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * 1) spreading hatred - never did it
 * 2) surpressing us - more like the opposite
 * 3) constantly terrorizing us - never did
 * 4) trying to divide us - never did that either
 * Leef luuj.. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 13:55, January 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yeh, leef luuj... dear people --Lars Washington 15:22, January 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * The LCP is in Congress now and got there in fair elections. I do not see what the LD opinion can change about that? I think we should all negate or negotiate, according to our own opinion. Harold Freeman 08:32, January 31, 2010 (UTC)
 * I understand classical liberals are not quite best friends with communists, but regardless of being liberal or socialist, we are all democrats, right? Mr. Donia is elected through democracy, and it is not unthinkable he will join you all in Government, having received a rather high number of votes. I would like you to start the year peaceful and without silly arguments. I'll conclude my statement with these words: let's judge one another not on his or her bandana color, but on the feathers on his head  09:11, January 31, 2010 (UTC)
 * I can understand the fear many people have of Donia. He acts quite aggresive Pierlot McCrooke 10:24, January 31, 2010 (UTC)

Good :) --O u WTBsjrief-mich 10:04, April 2, 2010 (UTC)

Membership and candidacy
Dearest members of the Liberal Democrats, I yesterday enlisted myself as a member of the Liberal Democrats, Lovia's largest party. I hope this is okay with you all. In the next elections, ¿of which I heard they are to be held soon?, I would like to run for parliament as an LD candidate. What is the exact procedure for that? Caucus/primary? Percival E 06:19, April 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * I am not with the LD, but I could give you some info on election procedures. This is how it generally goes:
 * Elections and the dates are announced.
 * During a period (usually two weeks to a month), citizens can file their candidacy. No party membership or anything is required, just the citizenship.
 * Then voting begins. A number of candidates is elected to the Congress. In Federal Elections (January), the winner is elected PM. In Mid-terms, a set of new elected MOTCs is added to the existing Congress.
 * Traditionally, people just add their names to candidate lists, without involvement of their parties. Yours could however do something of the kind, but I wouldn't think they'd do that. 12:08, April 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * Noted. Thanks. Percival E 13:39, April 27, 2010 (UTC)

Is it Officail Please tell me it is i want to run!Marcus Villanova 21:40, April 27, 2010 (UTC)

Official stance on state reform
As the party's main candidate, I would like to know our "official" stance on the state/union-debate. Could somebody - Chairman Freeman perhaps - enlighten me? Percival E. Galahad 14:25, May 13, 2010 (UTC)
 * Although the Liberals are well known for wanting more democracy, we find it better in these hard times of inactivity to choose for possibility 1 (see First Chamber), namely the Mayors, who are not chosen, cease a significant part of their power to the annually chosen State Governors. The Governors should be checked by the Congress. When there are enough users, we should go for the democratic way (i.e. a chosen State Council, etc). --Bucurestean 17:57, May 13, 2010 (UTC)

WOw
Really comunism failed... NO just stalin he was a bad commie Yuri Aylssa jon ALL good democratic Commies.Marcus Villanova 19:26, May 13, 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the support, but I guess we better let them be. Answering 'penso che si' with 'penso che no' wont help us any further. Just keep pointing out where the mistakes lie, that's all we can do. 06:31, May 14, 2010 (UTC)

Witch hunting?
I'm just wondering: when did the LD changed its ideology to McCarthyism? During the Red Scare in America a lot of 'how to recognize a commie' material was provided to the public (an example). The LD hasn't gone that far but nonetheless I am a little concerned. The anti-commie poster was I believe nothing more than an act of the moment, but what about the following:


 * Why not outlaw extremists? Why defend them, in the name of the freedom of speech, and allow them to tear down society from inside out? These are dangerous elements I am talking about. Get rid of those. (ArminBlanche)
 * That's why we need to have as many Liberal Congressmen as possible to stop them. (Bucurestean)

I found this on ArminBlanche's talk page so tell me, would the LD say anything to gain another soul or is it really planning to ban the CPL.NM? 07:33, May 15, 2010 (UTC)
 * We have never wanted and shall never want to outlaw our political competitors, unlike (some) communists and fascists. "To stop them", I meant to stop from realizing some of their ideas. Bucurestean 07:54, May 15, 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks, that is a huge relieve. So we wont fixate the price of bread then?  I take it that you are referring to the IGP? Just to be clear, at least I never intended to outlaw them because they are a far-right party. It is just that they were undemocratic, racist and used personal insults and vandalism. They weren't constructive as we are.  07:59, May 15, 2010 (UTC)