User talk:Ooswesthoesbes/Arsjief 3



Arsjief

How do you make Oceana?
Hey Oos,

I've always wondered how you make Oceana-- is it truly just a wonderful little dump of creativity of a fake language you're making? Or is it heavily based on other languages? It's certainly realistic and is ostensibly consistent in spelling and general form. In other words, Oceana seems too good to be truly artificial.

I ask because I think it would be interesting to run analysis of Oceana to determine such things as how many words are known to exist, the average length of words, and how close Oceana is to other languages in terms of letter sequencing.

I don't know if you're programming inclined, but one thing that could be done is use a basic dictionary of Oceana words, and give this dictionary to a computer that would figure out how often characters come after each other, and finally tell this program to generate what it perceives as reasonably Oceana-like words.

A RMACHEDES 23:49, November 18, 2012 (UTC)


 * Personally, I don't think such results would be very illuminating, since f.e. the average word length doesn't tell you anything interesting about the linguistics of the language. I agree Oceana seems very naturalistic (though I'm not convinced by the history :P) and I'd like someone with a more than amateur interest in linguistics to comment on this. :) --Semyon 00:02, November 19, 2012 (UTC)
 * Hahah, actually, the realisticness of the first words I created is very low :P The more recent additions rely on grammatical endings such as -nost, -ni, and -bechen and on a nearly fixed way of changing from Slovak to Oceana.
 * In Lovia, we have about 2,500 words. On my computer, there are another 3,000. That makes 5,500 words in total :P
 * The average length of words would not be that interesting, as Oceana is an agglutinating language. To illustrate this, "length of words" will be only one word :P
 * I must say it would be interesting to run some "professional" analysis on Oceana and compare it to languages like Dutch, Slovak, and English. Probably, it will still be fairly close to English, maybe with "t" and "s" being slightly more common and "e" slightly less :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 04:17, November 19, 2012 (UTC)
 * I can hack together a little script that can do that for you, if you'd like. All I'd need is a decent-sized corpus of text. I could compare results of looking at Oceana with results from English or Dutch, too. If you have a collection of Oceana text (a dictionary would work too, I suppose, but could give undue weight to some patterns if they commonly occur among uncommon words), could you point me towards it? A RMACHEDES  19:50, November 21, 2012 (UTC)
 * - (though not the last few lines, they are still in English) - . --O u WTBsjrief-mich 19:58, November 21, 2012 (UTC)
 * Cool, that last one ("Thie Evangelias o'that Biblia") should do the trick. I'll write that program and be right back. A RMACHEDES  20:31, November 21, 2012 (UTC)

Oceana analysis
Ok, so here's a table of what letters come after which in Oceana. The probabilities increment (so that the last value, the probability that a space precedes some letter, is 1), because I wanted to get my program to generate a few Oceana-like words and having the probabilities like that makes it easier to do so. The numbers don't mean all to much to a human, I'm afraid.

| a   | b    | c    | d    | e    | f    | g    | h    | i    | j    | k    | l    | m    | n    | o    | p    | q    | r    | s    | t    | u    | v    | w    | x    | y    | z    |      | a | 0.00 | 0.04 | 0.05 | 0.06 | 0.07 | 0.08 | 0.09 | 0.10 | 0.12 | 0.12 | 0.14 | 0.20 | 0.24 | 0.44 | 0.44 | 0.44 | 0.44 | 0.48 | 0.53 | 0.82 | 0.82 | 0.84 | 0.86 | 0.86 | 0.87 | 0.89 | 1.00 | b | 0.07 | 0.07 | 0.07 | 0.07 | 0.31 | 0.31 | 0.31 | 0.31 | 0.51 | 0.51 | 0.51 | 0.55 | 0.55 | 0.55 | 0.58 | 0.58 | 0.58 | 0.66 | 0.66 | 0.66 | 0.88 | 0.88 | 0.88 | 0.88 | 0.98 | 0.98 | 1.00 | c | 0.27 | 0.27 | 0.27 | 0.27 | 0.31 | 0.31 | 0.31 | 0.70 | 0.70 | 0.70 | 0.79 | 0.80 | 0.80 | 0.80 | 0.98 | 0.98 | 0.98 | 0.99 | 0.99 | 0.99 | 0.99 | 0.99 | 0.99 | 0.99 | 0.99 | 0.99 | 1.00 | d | 0.14 | 0.14 | 0.14 | 0.18 | 0.40 | 0.40 | 0.40 | 0.40 | 0.48 | 0.48 | 0.48 | 0.50 | 0.50 | 0.52 | 0.68 | 0.68 | 0.68 | 0.69 | 0.73 | 0.73 | 0.75 | 0.75 | 0.76 | 0.76 | 0.76 | 0.77 | 1.00 | e | 0.03 | 0.05 | 0.06 | 0.10 | 0.12 | 0.13 | 0.13 | 0.14 | 0.14 | 0.14 | 0.15 | 0.19 | 0.25 | 0.36 | 0.36 | 0.37 | 0.37 | 0.44 | 0.50 | 0.59 | 0.59 | 0.59 | 0.61 | 0.61 | 0.62 | 0.62 | 1.00 | f | 0.03 | 0.03 | 0.03 | 0.03 | 0.16 | 0.25 | 0.25 | 0.25 | 0.30 | 0.30 | 0.30 | 0.34 | 0.34 | 0.34 | 0.69 | 0.69 | 0.69 | 0.73 | 0.74 | 0.84 | 0.88 | 0.88 | 0.88 | 0.88 | 0.88 | 0.88 | 1.00 | g | 0.10 | 0.10 | 0.10 | 0.10 | 0.17 | 0.17 | 0.17 | 0.22 | 0.29 | 0.29 | 0.29 | 0.41 | 0.42 | 0.43 | 0.78 | 0.78 | 0.78 | 0.83 | 0.83 | 0.84 | 0.88 | 0.88 | 0.88 | 0.88 | 0.88 | 0.88 | 1.00 | h | 0.26 | 0.26 | 0.26 | 0.26 | 0.44 | 0.44 | 0.44 | 0.44 | 0.64 | 0.64 | 0.65 | 0.66 | 0.66 | 0.66 | 0.77 | 0.77 | 0.77 | 0.78 | 0.78 | 0.79 | 0.89 | 0.89 | 0.89 | 0.89 | 0.89 | 0.89 | 1.00 | i | 0.04 | 0.05 | 0.06 | 0.08 | 0.24 | 0.25 | 0.30 | 0.30 | 0.30 | 0.31 | 0.32 | 0.35 | 0.39 | 0.65 | 0.65 | 0.66 | 0.66 | 0.67 | 0.77 | 0.87 | 0.87 | 0.90 | 0.90 | 0.90 | 0.90 | 0.90 | 1.00 | j | 0.10 | 0.10 | 0.10 | 0.10 | 0.33 | 0.33 | 0.33 | 0.33 | 0.43 | 0.43 | 0.43 | 0.43 | 0.43 | 0.43 | 0.70 | 0.70 | 0.70 | 0.70 | 0.74 | 0.74 | 0.87 | 0.87 | 0.87 | 0.87 | 0.87 | 0.87 | 1.00 | k | 0.11 | 0.11 | 0.11 | 0.11 | 0.24 | 0.24 | 0.24 | 0.24 | 0.32 | 0.32 | 0.32 | 0.37 | 0.37 | 0.39 | 0.48 | 0.48 | 0.48 | 0.57 | 0.61 | 0.74 | 0.83 | 0.83 | 0.83 | 0.83 | 0.88 | 0.88 | 1.00 | l | 0.20 | 0.20 | 0.20 | 0.22 | 0.42 | 0.42 | 0.42 | 0.42 | 0.50 | 0.50 | 0.50 | 0.60 | 0.62 | 0.62 | 0.80 | 0.81 | 0.81 | 0.81 | 0.83 | 0.85 | 0.85 | 0.85 | 0.85 | 0.85 | 0.85 | 0.85 | 1.00 | m | 0.11 | 0.11 | 0.11 | 0.11 | 0.30 | 0.30 | 0.30 | 0.30 | 0.37 | 0.37 | 0.37 | 0.38 | 0.41 | 0.42 | 0.50 | 0.51 | 0.51 | 0.51 | 0.52 | 0.52 | 0.56 | 0.56 | 0.56 | 0.56 | 0.58 | 0.58 | 1.00 | n | 0.10 | 0.10 | 0.10 | 0.14 | 0.33 | 0.33 | 0.38 | 0.38 | 0.43 | 0.45 | 0.46 | 0.46 | 0.46 | 0.47 | 0.48 | 0.48 | 0.48 | 0.48 | 0.51 | 0.54 | 0.55 | 0.55 | 0.55 | 0.55 | 0.55 | 0.55 | 1.00 | o | 0.01 | 0.03 | 0.04 | 0.11 | 0.11 | 0.13 | 0.14 | 0.14 | 0.15 | 0.15 | 0.17 | 0.20 | 0.25 | 0.30 | 0.31 | 0.32 | 0.32 | 0.37 | 0.48 | 0.58 | 0.61 | 0.69 | 0.80 | 0.80 | 0.80 | 0.81 | 1.00 | p | 0.06 | 0.06 | 0.06 | 0.06 | 0.20 | 0.20 | 0.20 | 0.24 | 0.27 | 0.27 | 0.27 | 0.29 | 0.29 | 0.30 | 0.63 | 0.65 | 0.65 | 0.88 | 0.89 | 0.92 | 0.96 | 0.96 | 0.96 | 0.96 | 0.96 | 0.96 | 1.00 | q | 0.00 | 0.00 | 0.00 | 0.00 | 0.00 | 0.00 | 0.00 | 0.00 | 0.00 | 0.00 | 0.00 | 0.00 | 0.00 | 0.00 | 0.00 | 0.00 | 0.00 | 0.00 | 0.00 | 0.00 | 0.00 | 0.00 | 0.00 | 0.00 | 0.00 | 0.00 | 0.00 | r | 0.16 | 0.16 | 0.16 | 0.21 | 0.34 | 0.35 | 0.36 | 0.37 | 0.49 | 0.49 | 0.49 | 0.49 | 0.49 | 0.50 | 0.64 | 0.65 | 0.65 | 0.66 | 0.71 | 0.75 | 0.78 | 0.78 | 0.78 | 0.78 | 0.80 | 0.80 | 1.00 | s | 0.04 | 0.04 | 0.04 | 0.04 | 0.18 | 0.18 | 0.18 | 0.37 | 0.42 | 0.42 | 0.44 | 0.45 | 0.46 | 0.46 | 0.51 | 0.52 | 0.52 | 0.53 | 0.55 | 0.66 | 0.66 | 0.66 | 0.68 | 0.68 | 0.70 | 0.70 | 1.00 | t | 0.03 | 0.03 | 0.05 | 0.05 | 0.15 | 0.15 | 0.15 | 0.52 | 0.54 | 0.54 | 0.54 | 0.55 | 0.55 | 0.56 | 0.59 | 0.59 | 0.59 | 0.60 | 0.67 | 0.72 | 0.72 | 0.72 | 0.73 | 0.73 | 0.73 | 0.73 | 1.00 | u | 0.00 | 0.02 | 0.02 | 0.13 | 0.35 | 0.35 | 0.35 | 0.35 | 0.35 | 0.35 | 0.36 | 0.38 | 0.41 | 0.50 | 0.50 | 0.51 | 0.51 | 0.57 | 0.66 | 0.72 | 0.72 | 0.72 | 0.72 | 0.72 | 0.72 | 0.73 | 1.00 | v | 0.34 | 0.34 | 0.34 | 0.34 | 0.67 | 0.67 | 0.67 | 0.67 | 0.85 | 0.85 | 0.85 | 0.86 | 0.86 | 0.86 | 0.93 | 0.93 | 0.93 | 0.99 | 0.99 | 0.99 | 1.00 | 1.00 | 1.00 | 1.00 | 1.00 | 1.00 | 1.00 | w | 0.13 | 0.13 | 0.13 | 0.14 | 0.26 | 0.26 | 0.29 | 0.29 | 0.30 | 0.30 | 0.35 | 0.35 | 0.35 | 0.39 | 0.40 | 0.40 | 0.40 | 0.44 | 0.57 | 0.60 | 0.61 | 0.61 | 0.61 | 0.61 | 0.61 | 0.61 | 1.00 | x | 0.00 | 0.00 | 0.00 | 0.00 | 0.00 | 0.00 | 0.00 | 0.00 | 0.00 | 0.00 | 0.00 | 0.00 | 0.00 | 0.00 | 0.00 | 0.00 | 0.00 | 0.00 | 0.00 | 0.00 | 0.00 | 0.00 | 0.00 | 0.00 | 0.00 | 0.00 | 0.00 | y | 0.16 | 0.16 | 0.16 | 0.20 | 0.34 | 0.34 | 0.34 | 0.34 | 0.39 | 0.39 | 0.39 | 0.44 | 0.45 | 0.54 | 0.54 | 0.54 | 0.54 | 0.60 | 0.60 | 0.63 | 0.63 | 0.67 | 0.67 | 0.67 | 0.67 | 0.71 | 1.00 | z | 0.23 | 0.23 | 0.23 | 0.34 | 0.47 | 0.47 | 0.47 | 0.48 | 0.52 | 0.52 | 0.52 | 0.57 | 0.58 | 0.58 | 0.69 | 0.69 | 0.69 | 0.71 | 0.71 | 0.71 | 0.89 | 0.89 | 0.91 | 0.91 | 0.91 | 0.93 | 1.00 | | 0.08 | 0.15 | 0.17 | 0.22 | 0.25 | 0.27 | 0.29 | 0.35 | 0.39 | 0.40 | 0.45 | 0.48 | 0.51 | 0.54 | 0.61 | 0.63 | 0.63 | 0.65 | 0.70 | 0.90 | 0.91 | 0.92 | 0.93 | 0.93 | 0.94 | 0.95 | 1.00 |

Yeah it's a little long. :P Anyhow, I got the program to print out some fake Oceana for me. Tell me if it's reasonable (note that it's normal that 80% of these are obviously crap-- random numbers cannot reproduce actual language too well). Btw, the technique I'm using is called Markov chains, and it's a fairly common idea to use these to generate natural language-like text. Except most of the time people use consecutive words, and it's to generate spam.

>> Generating 100 words, then filtering out words where length < 3:

ellos ado puelseate ldal thuero tevepon eds hothuers igrathnahane biet ana athu oves tha yat kil han thi dothi the otabie brear tlatl tovigushabinenene hin ath broviebudenine modedalanen thu henarin prse aratide ssh thin kun aish den opho yie chlahetem jede ckud theve foshiniat heren owraradanen ithelo hat inere aneerow rca tshinabyemie anenshe syedd jis

What do you think? A RMACHEDES 20:57, November 21, 2012 (UTC)

I'll leave it to Oos to comment on whether the words are realistic or not. :P I will say, though, that the program in some cases has made some (understandable) mistakes; in particular, there are certain consonant combinations that are limited to certain places in a word - hence 'ckud' and 'rca' are illegal because 'ck' and 'rc' are cannot appear at the start or end of a word respectively. But yeah, some of the words you generated are real Oceana words, so nice work I guess. :P --Semyon 21:11, November 21, 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks. This technique works really well in some languages, not so much in others. In Spanish, with the occasional error due to three "l"s in a row, the results are truly impeccable. A RMACHEDES  21:22, November 21, 2012 (UTC)

Oh, and the letter distribution: A RMACHEDES  21:22, November 21, 2012 (UTC)



I'm in semi-progress of making a conlang - grammar is mostly Spanish or English, but the words/character make it stand out. 77topaz (talk) 22:40, November 21, 2012 (UTC)

Very interesting! Oceana is fairly close to English, with "a", "h", "k", and "t" being slightly more common. The words indeed are mostly crappy, but apart from some obvious nonsense "tlatl", "rca", "syedd", it's quite reasonable :) --O u WTBsjrief-mich 05:21, November 22, 2012 (UTC)

"Tlatl" reminds me of the Zhodani language from "Traveller". 77topaz (talk) 07:05, November 22, 2012 (UTC)
 * "tlatl" is the Nahuatl word for "sling" :) --O u WTBsjrief-mich 10:56, November 23, 2012 (UTC)
 * Do you speak Nahuatl? :O --Semyon 10:59, November 23, 2012 (UTC)
 * Not fluently :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 11:00, November 23, 2012 (UTC)

Photo
Can you find a photo of a young actor so I can use it for one of my characters? I cannot find a good photo.  Happy65   Talk CNP   12:25, November 24, 2012 (UTC)
 * Have you tried Wikimedia Commons? --O u WTBsjrief-mich 12:27, November 24, 2012 (UTC)


 * Still cannot find a good photo.  Happy65   Talk CNP  LogoCNP.png 12:28, November 24, 2012 (UTC)
 * Perhaps you shouldn't look for "actor", but for something else like "young man" etc. If the image is fine, nobody'll have to know it ain't an actor in real life :) --O u WTBsjrief-mich 12:30, November 24, 2012 (UTC)


 * I cannot, the good ones I find are all No copying copyright thingy.  Happy65   Talk CNP  LogoCNP.png 12:32, November 24, 2012 (UTC)
 * Nobody cares. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 12:33, November 24, 2012 (UTC)


 * I care, I don't want to be in? The Hague? in court.  Happy65   Talk CNP LogoCNP.png 12:35, November 24, 2012 (UTC)
 * Okay, then you'd have to search further or not include a picture at all :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 12:36, November 24, 2012 (UTC)

Hello
Hello Oos Wes Ilava! I am Dave Leskromento of the Peace Island Times and would like to suggest to you an important article on the Peace Island Times. It is the newest article. Thanks.  Happy65   Talk CNP  16:55, December 3, 2012 (UTC)
 * You made me curious, I'll read it right away :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 17:23, December 3, 2012 (UTC)

Hey Oos, I'm going to redo the economic statistics I forgot to take into account the relative strength/weakness of the different state economies in different sectors. Hoffmann Kunarian TALK 16:06, December 5, 2012 (UTC)
 * Okay. If you need help, just ask. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 16:08, December 5, 2012 (UTC)

IP blocked
For some reason ("spam") they cross-wiki blocked my IP or account... I hope this'll get fixed soon, until then, I'll just have to wait :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 05:20, December 6, 2012 (UTC)
 * Outrageous! --Semyon 13:32, December 6, 2012 (UTC)
 * It should be fixed now. Wikia accidently blocked all users of one of their servers :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 16:56, December 6, 2012 (UTC)
 * well they have to mess up once in awhile. :P Marcus/Michael Villanova 22:34, December 6, 2012 (UTC)
 * And by 'once in a while' we mean 'all the time.' *waits for block* --Semyon 22:46, December 6, 2012 (UTC)
 * If you want I can speed up that process to help wikia. It's just one click in RC :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 08:19, December 7, 2012 (UTC)
 * Couldn't I unblock myself though? I've often wondered what would happen, but didn't really want to try. --Semyon 10:18, December 7, 2012 (UTC)
 * Yes, you can, unless it's a cross-wiki block or they took away your administrative powers :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 10:54, December 7, 2012 (UTC)

?
Shall I sign the IWO declaration papers?  Happy65   Talk CNP   09:51, December 8, 2012 (UTC)
 * How does Harvia's political system work? --O u WTBsjrief-mich 09:51, December 8, 2012 (UTC)


 * Currently working on it. There will be 16 ministries, 4 of which have already been created. No interactive federal/district elections though since there is not enough users. I am the King (either I or the vacant role of president can sign papers) and a fictional character created by I is foreign affairs minister. The federal house is called the Estates. We use the currency of Corona (administrated by Horton11).  Happy65   Talk CNP  LogoCNP.png 09:57, December 8, 2012 (UTC)
 * Okay, in that case, if Harvia supports the membership of Inselöarna, all we need is a formal statement and the names of the head of the government (king or president) and the name of the secretary of foreign affairs. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 10:01, December 8, 2012 (UTC)


 * I have supported the Insel Islands and my formal statement is:


 * The Kingdom of the Harvian Islands, ruled by King Joaquin I of the Harvian Islands with an agreement of the King and the Minister of Foreign Affairs of Harvia, with all IWO full member nations agreeing, officially declares itself a full member of the International Wikination Organization. - King Joaquin I.
 * Okay, now we'll have to wait on the others :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 10:11, December 8, 2012 (UTC)


 * so, can Harvian Islands become a full member. Maores, Brunant and Lovia have all confirmed?  Happy65   Talk CNP  LogoCNP.png 10:12, December 8, 2012 (UTC)
 * Harvia is a full member :) --O u WTBsjrief-mich 10:14, December 8, 2012 (UTC)


 * I'll sign the delcaration papers now. Thanks. <font color="Teal"> Happy65  <font color="Aqua"> Talk CNP LogoCNP.png 10:15, December 8, 2012 (UTC)

Request
I would like to request a babel template that states my native language is english. <font color="Teal"> Happy65  <font color="Aqua"> Talk CNP  09:52, December 9, 2012 (UTC)
 * See Template:User en. You can insert it on your userpage using . --O u WTBsjrief-mich 09:56, December 9, 2012 (UTC)

Hey Oos
Oos, would you be interested in having a railway from Hurbanova to East Hills (Emerald Highlands) and maybe a connection to Charleston? You mentioned before you were interested in one, and it could be a good alternative to link Charleston if nothing as agreed on by Kunarian (ps. Kunarian, if you read this, don't go all crazy cause this is only a suggestion and not an evil scheme to undermine you). HORTON11 : •  18:30, December 11, 2012 (UTC)
 * Horton it would be nice if you didn't make such remarks as "Kunarian, if you read this, don't go all crazy cause this is only a suggestion and not an evil scheme to undermine you" when I complain about my position being undermined it is for good reason and personally I am glad you've started to do this in a more democratic way, however my largest problem is the lack of any real taking account of costs on your part, personally I would find it easier to support/oppose your ideas if you gave me a price tag. Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 18:40, December 11, 2012 (UTC)

@Horton: Even though Oos is the PM, he does not have executive power to build railway extensions. <font color="Teal"> Happy65  <font color="Aqua"> Talk CNP   18:32, December 11, 2012 (UTC)

I was talking to the Governor of Oceana.in this case, and it would be about a new railway or perhaps just a renovation of the old Emerald Railway. HORTON11 : •  18:36, December 11, 2012 (UTC)

The Governor of Oceana does not have authority of extending the line to Charleston. This is what you said: (Oos, would you be interested in having a railway from Hurbanova to East Hills (Emerald Highlands) and maybe a connection to Charleston?), <font color="Teal"> Happy65  <font color="Aqua"> Talk CNP   18:43, December 11, 2012 (UTC)


 * @ Happy- I know what I said. Oos woudn't have that authority but the Ministry of Transportation might. And for that "maybe a connection" I would like to have Kunarian and Oos' cooperation in this.


 * @Kunarian- Well sorry but I'm no economist, so I couldn't really price the railway (but I believe you're not one either). And in the real world, pricing large projects isn't always right (in Canada they have a fighter jet scandal where the planes cost 5x their first estimate). HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 19:47, December 11, 2012 (UTC)
 * Being well educated in Lovian law I can tell you the ministry does not and never should have that right. I will give my support if an accurate budget is drawn up and if a good plan on how to fund it is given. You don't need to be an economist to price a railway. And being actually well versed in economics and business I can tell you in the real world everything has a plan drawn up with very specific pricing, for you to suggest otherwise is lunacy. Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 20:01, December 11, 2012 (UTC)
 * Well the state doesn't have that right, it seems, since that was never put into law.
 * As good as any price plan may be, it will never go to plan (here's a good example: http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/politics/article/1298933). But that doesn't mean that every project will to be astronomically off course. And lastly, as you seem to be good at writing up financial things here, would you be willing to work with me to draw up a good financial plan for this. Like I have said before, I would really like to find a peaceful solution (it takes two to tango). HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 20:10, December 11, 2012 (UTC)

<p style="margin-left:24px;">

To get things straight: --O u WTBsjrief-mich 09:50, December 12, 2012 (UTC)
 * Both the Ministry of Transportation and both Governors should agree - Congress doesn't have a direct say in this one, unless it really is a useless project of course.
 * The Railway from East Hills to Charleston would only be possible via Clave Rock.
 * Estimated costs, depends on where to place the station in Hurb:
 * A direction connection to Hurbanova Railway Station: approx. $150,000,000
 * Building a new station north of Hurbanova: approx. $120,000,000

Message
Can I have for Dave Leskromento? <font color="Teal"> Happy65  <font color="Aqua"> Talk CNP   16:06, December 13, 2012 (UTC)
 * In what way? --O u WTBsjrief-mich 16:15, December 13, 2012 (UTC)


 * for the page. <font color="Teal"> Happy65  <font color="Aqua"> Talk CNP LogoCNP.png

16:17, December 13, 2012 (UTC)

Interview
Every week or so, The National Post will run an article on each of the major parties participating in the election. This will be a chance for each party to explain how they plan to go about during the elections and into the new year. I would like to start with CCPL, so it would be nice if you would answer there simple questions:


 * 1) Do you think the "Uncle Oos" campaign image is enough to re-elect you as Prime Minister, or would you be better off promoting a CCPL "action plan"?
 * 2) Can Christian democracy become a strong force in these elections with the emergence of Christian Democratic Party, or should you be wary of the populist and secular right?
 * 3) What changes, if any, would you make to the CCPL campaign?
 * 4) Anything else you want to add?

HORTON11 : •  16:06, December 14, 2012 (UTC)
 * Sure:
 * Well, our party program hardly changed, except for a few insiders' things, so most people are still familiar with our plans. However, when the elections acutally start in January, more campaigning is to be expected :)
 * We are already a force to be reckoned with since the major conservative victory in 2010 (I hope that year ain't wrong :P) . Personally, I think most of our voters will stay and not jump over to CDP, but the possibility exists. It should be noted that CCPL and CDP only have a limited sea of people to fish from. Religious people will stay at this address and will not run to the secular right.
 * None :P
 * Well, I would like to stress that these elections are - more than ever - about choosing the right people to do the job. If the wrong people are elected, we might have an inactive Congress.
 * --O u WTBsjrief-mich 16:20, December 14, 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks. Later on (today or tomorrow) you should see the article. HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 16:30, December 14, 2012 (UTC)
 * Okay, very well :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 16:31, December 14, 2012 (UTC)

PL's position
On your personal analysis chart on your profile page, how could you consider the PL to be socially progressive, when in reality, we are opposed to social progressivism much like the CCPL? — <font color=#2E6FFD>Christopher Costello (<font color=#2E6FFD>Pikapi • <font color=#2E6FFD>Chat  • <font color=#2E6FFD>What's up ) 16:53, December 15, 2012 (UTC)

Social progressivism is support for gay marriage, abortion, euthanasia, etc. You're opposed to that? If so, he probably wasn't aware because you haven't put social policies on your platform. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 16:57, December 15, 2012 (UTC)

I can fully support social (ethical) progressivism in PL by looking at the party program: Especially the last one is very clear. You're not opposed to samesex marriage and abortion, and therefore you are creating supportive base for it (you leave a possibility - which will surely be used in modern times). One thing that concerns me however, is that you leave it up to religious institutions. Religious institutions preforming abortion? Sounds like an unhealthy situation to me... --O u WTBsjrief-mich 09:13, December 16, 2012 (UTC)
 * PL feels that it is important to distance religiously-inspired morals or morals in general with any form of governmental law, for the sake of the basic right to freedom of religion. The government should continue to treat all religious institutions with indifference and allow them to influence the opinions and actions of its own members. 
 * PL feels that the government should be indifferent regarding personal matters such as same-sex marriage and abortion, leaving it to religious institutions to continue to voice their opinions on the matter and attempt to persuade the people. In situations such as with same sex-marriage, it should remain up to the institution on wether or not to conduct the ritual, and the government should not involve itself. 

I'm sorry, Chris, but that does seem socially progressive. <font color="Teal"> Happy65  <font color="Aqua"> Talk CNP   09:19, December 16, 2012 (UTC)
 * I prefer the term indifferent. I'd say that our system allows for the inclusion of personal ethical values and morals much better than leftist parties, however. Taking that into account, the PL is closer to the CCPL than the CCPL is to any other party because our platform best allows individuals to take morality into account on their own. Because we are against regulating values in law, we are socially neutral, thus making us your closest ally. All that I can say is that God gave free will to man, and our system supports that. — <font color=#2E6FFD>Christopher Costello (<font color=#2E6FFD>Pikapi • <font color=#2E6FFD>Chat  • <font color=#2E6FFD>What's up ) 22:29, December 19, 2012 (UTC)
 * Unless you're a Calvinist. :P --Semyon 22:45, December 19, 2012 (UTC)
 * @Chris: Your coming down with a case of the"Newlabourism" where they kept claiming they were a socialist-labour party but were in reality a center party. Saying it and doing it are two different things :p. But you are not socially progressive but more "American Conservatism" Marcus/Michael Villanova 22:49, December 19, 2012 (UTC)
 * No way, he's almost a proper libertarian. Can you imagine Romney saying, 'the government should be indifferent regarding... abortion?' --Semyon 22:53, December 19, 2012 (UTC)
 * Still would've got him more votes :L Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 23:22, December 19, 2012 (UTC)

The Oceana band Naselni Jazzeek has an album mentioned on their page, with several songs listed, but no article. Could I give it an article and/or review it at Lovia Music Center? 77topaz (talk) 10:58, December 19, 2012 (UTC)
 * Sure :) --O u WTBsjrief-mich 11:01, December 19, 2012 (UTC)
 * Another question: what is Oceana for "early morning", "dawn chorus" and "fire"? 77topaz (talk) 11:04, December 19, 2012 (UTC)
 * early morning: ranimouning
 * dawn chorus: ewtecksong
 * fire: feyr
 * --O u WTBsjrief-mich 11:20, December 19, 2012 (UTC)
 * Another question: what are some of the basic questions you would ask in order to get a good "sense" of a conlang? Basic characteristics? 77topaz (talk) 19:45, December 19, 2012 (UTC)
 * Well, in case of of a conlang, you would want to know its origins, its purpose, its phonology, and its grammar :) --O u WTBsjrief-mich 06:45, December 20, 2012 (UTC)
 * Oh, I see, I was expecting more technical features. Hm. :P What does "phonology" mean? 77topaz (talk) 07:13, December 20, 2012 (UTC)
 * Phonology is the sounds of the language (more technically phonemes) which are combined together to make words. :) --Semyon 09:45, December 20, 2012 (UTC)
 * So how would one "summarise" a phonology? 77topaz (talk) 09:55, December 22, 2012 (UTC)
 * That's difficult. The best summarization is two tables: one for the vowels and one for the consonants . You could also say that the language sounds like another language, but that's subjective. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 10:08, December 22, 2012 (UTC)
 * Hm, my best-developed conlang is meant to not sound like another language. :P How about origins and purpose, how would they be summarised? 77topaz (talk) 10:27, December 22, 2012 (UTC)
 * Well, you could say it sounds like a chainsaw :P
 * Origins, f.e.: English, Indo-European, onomatopoeia, extraterrestrial, isolated language etc.
 * Purpose: for international business (auxiliary language), for fun, for artistic reasons (this is Oceana), for pyschologic testing (f.e. Toki Pona). --O u WTBsjrief-mich 10:39, December 22, 2012 (UTC)
 * I see. What sort of things should be included in a summary of the grammar? 77topaz (talk) 10:44, December 22, 2012 (UTC)
 * What is the basic sentence structure? F.e. subject - verb - object
 * Does the language have inflections and conjugations?
 * How is the language grammatical alligned? Is it nominative-accusative or ergative-absolutive?
 * Morphology: is the language agglutinative, fusional or isolating? --O u WTBsjrief-mich 10:56, December 22, 2012 (UTC)
 * Would it be useful for me to give such a "summary" of a conlang I'm working on, for you to evaluate? 77topaz (talk) 11:28, December 22, 2012 (UTC)
 * Sure, is it for a wiki? --O u WTBsjrief-mich 11:39, December 22, 2012 (UTC)
 * It's for a conworld. Might eventually be on a wiki. 77topaz (talk) 23:44, December 22, 2012 (UTC)
 * Okay :) --O u WTBsjrief-mich 08:38, December 23, 2012 (UTC)
 * Okay... origin: extraterrestrial; purpose: well, the same sort of purpose as Oceana I guess; phonology: not enough room right now for two tables, but it's meant to sound unusual; grammar: SOV order when unmarked, fusional, conjugating. 77topaz (talk) 10:03, December 23, 2012 (UTC)
 * Okay, have you thought of any sounds? F.e. clicks or throat sounds (epiglottal could be interesting)? --O u WTBsjrief-mich 10:09, December 23, 2012 (UTC)
 * What's an epiglottal sound? Is it something similar to what the K'kree language from "Traveller" has? 77topaz (talk) 10:14, December 23, 2012 (UTC)
 * I don't know that film, epiglottal stop, voiced fricative, and voiceless. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 10:19, December 23, 2012 (UTC)
 * Haha, "Traveller"'s not a film. :P 77topaz (talk) 10:29, December 23, 2012 (UTC)
 * Ow, told you I didn't know it :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 10:31, December 23, 2012 (UTC)
 * Do you need me to tell you about it? And also, the descriptions are quite obscure/jargony and .ogg files don't work properly on my computer. 77topaz (talk) 10:33, December 23, 2012 (UTC)
 * Well, is it interesting? :P Okay, it sounds like a saw :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 10:36, December 23, 2012 (UTC)
 * @Traveller: Yes, I would say so.
 * @Glottal stuff: that's a lot of help with differentiating between them. :P 77topaz (talk) 10:52, December 23, 2012 (UTC)
 * Well, the differences are somewhat like (can't give it exactly because of English phonology, which makes no sense at all...): t - z - s. :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 10:54, December 23, 2012 (UTC)
 * I see, roughly. :P By the way, Traveller is a sort of sci-fi variant of D&D with quite a well-developed universe, which has existed since 1977, though it is still being expanded and worked on (like D&D, I presume). 77topaz (talk) 10:57, December 23, 2012 (UTC)
 * D&D is not a film? :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 10:59, December 23, 2012 (UTC)
 * I mean Dungeons and Dragons. :P It is not a film, no. :P 77topaz (talk) 11:01, December 23, 2012 (UTC)
 * Ow, isn't that a videogame? :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 11:05, December 23, 2012 (UTC)
 * No, Oos, no. 77topaz (talk) 11:28, December 23, 2012 (UTC)
 * Hhaha, ow :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 11:29, December 23, 2012 (UTC)
 * I mentioned that Traveller was from 1977 and that it was partially a variant of D&D, and they didn't really have video games around that time. :P I thought D&D was pretty well known. :P 77topaz (talk) 11:33, December 23, 2012 (UTC)
 * I'm sorry, I'm not really into videogames and D&D stuff :P We used to play draughts and game of the goose when I was young :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 11:35, December 23, 2012 (UTC)
 * I see. :P Though D&D is notable for basically inventing the RPG genre. :P Anyway, here is Traveller. 77topaz (talk) 11:45, December 23, 2012 (UTC)
 * RPG Genre? :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 12:28, December 23, 2012 (UTC)
 * Role-Playing Game. :P 77topaz (talk) 19:30, December 23, 2012 (UTC)
 * Okay, so.. you need two players and you say you are either a dungeon or a dragon? :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 07:42, December 24, 2012 (UTC)
 * Seriously, Oos? :P 77topaz (talk) 07:48, December 24, 2012 (UTC)
 * I already suspected it would be something with a dice, like game of the goose :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 07:58, December 24, 2012 (UTC)
 * Yes, dice are involved. :P 77topaz (talk) 08:09, December 24, 2012 (UTC)
 * Hahaha, I knew there would be a retro part to it :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 08:12, December 24, 2012 (UTC)
 * Retro? You do realise when D&D was created? :P (Traveller, as I said before, was created in 1977) 77topaz (talk) 08:39, December 24, 2012 (UTC)

Dutch words
So do you think you could help me with the Dutch lyrics for the anthem these few days? I'd have more time. HORTON11 : •  15:26, December 19, 2012 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I think today will be possible :) --O u WTBsjrief-mich 06:44, December 20, 2012 (UTC)

Please
Please quickly go to http://carrington.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Chat?useskin=wikia <font color="Teal"> Happy65  <font color="Aqua"> Talk CNP   08:39, December 23, 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for coming. I'm glad me, topaz, you and wabba have finally got to cchat together for once (since you never come on). <font color="Teal"> Happy65  <font color="Aqua"> Talk CNP  10:16, December 23, 2012 (UTC)
 * Hahaha :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 10:58, December 23, 2012 (UTC)

Request
May Adoha College teach the Bachelor in Oceana Studies. <font color="Teal"> Happy65  <font color="Aqua"> Talk CNP   18:05, December 23, 2012 (UTC)
 * Well, it's up to the university it self, but I wouldn't recommend it. Adoha is not in Oceana-speaking territory and perhaps two universities teaching it is slightly too much. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 07:41, December 24, 2012 (UTC)


 * Okay, shall we work on the limburgish wiki you created yesterday? <font color="Teal"> Happy65  <font color="Aqua"> Talk CNP  LogoCNP.png 07:43, December 24, 2012 (UTC)
 * Hahaha, first have to scan RC though. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 07:44, December 24, 2012 (UTC)


 * I understand. <font color="Teal"> Happy65  <font color="Aqua"> Talk CNP LogoCNP.png 07:46, December 24, 2012 (UTC)