Talk:Conservative Christian Party of Lovia

Nice! -- 09:34, December 12, 2009 (UTC)
 * You knew you could also run for Congress without a party (non-partisan)? -- 09:40, December 12, 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes, I knew :P --O u WTB 09:44, December 12, 2009 (UTC)
 * Okay. 09:44, December 12, 2009 (UTC)

No, it's not offensive ;) --O u WTB 09:55, December 12, 2009 (UTC)
 * . -- 10:01, December 12, 2009 (UTC)
 * "LOWIA" --Bucurestean 13:50, December 12, 2009 (UTC)
 * Inspiracioun è :P --O u WTB 14:04, December 12, 2009 (UTC)
 * Yeah, with your reference to Pim Fortuyn :S --Bucurestean 14:05, December 12, 2009 (UTC)
 * ? Why that? --O u WTB 14:10, December 12, 2009 (UTC)
 * "List". ;) --Bucurestean 14:24, December 12, 2009 (UTC)
 * Ow :P No, that's from the former name "Lijst Geert Wilders". --O u WTB 14:25, December 12, 2009 (UTC)
 * Pfff you're a crazy one. --Bucurestean 14:29, December 12, 2009 (UTC)
 * Je sais, but I do have OwtbBot! :P --O u WTB 14:33, December 12, 2009 (UTC)

Member accused for sockpuppetry
What are we going to do with William Johnson? --Bucurestean 17:02, January 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * Pfff.. Let's await if it's really sockpuppetry. --O u WTB 18:24, January 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * He seems to be one Pierlot McCrooke 18:26, January 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * (edit conflict) Well, we probably won't know . The guy is blocked (= Sannse's advice). There is some evidence on Wikipedia about a connection between this Johnson and Donia Dude, but I'm not sure where to find that. 18:26, January 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * I don't know what to do with it right now. I hope you can understand I've got more important things to do right now (such as reading some English literature.. tomorrow I have to send in a nice boekverslag :P) --O u WTB 18:29, January 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * Oh right . If there's anything I can do for you, just say so . I am supposed to become an English literature geek! 18:31, January 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * No, I'll just read a samenvatting and a few random pages of the book as usual (((A))) --O u WTB 18:33, January 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * Which book? 18:34, January 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * Don't know yet. I'll go get it tomorrow. (the library of the big city of Montfort has been founded by my grandfather, so we've got the keys :P) --O u WTB 19:01, January 9, 2010 (UTC)

Congratulations with the elections
Watching the exit polls with a couple of hours to go, I want to congratulate you already with your results. Oos Wes Ilava has proven himself and got a new chance to shine in the Congress. I'm convinced that Lovia will have the possibility to enjoy more of this democratic party and its party leader in the near future. We wish you all the good luck in the coming year in the Congress! In name of the LD. --Bucurestean 17:36, January 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * Thankee shön. I'm happy that the Lovians decided to give us (well, us... :P) a chance in the congress of 2010. I also wish the LD good luck and wise decisions in the coming year! :) --O u WTBsjrief-mich 18:37, January 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * Same for me. Congratulations! 06:59, January 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * Congratulations on behalf of the PD too. Also, I would like to invite you in a 'five point dialogue' about the reform that awaits us. It seems best to me if we first talk about a shared proposal, instead of each making our own proposal in Congress. 11:32, January 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * Thank you! I also wish the PD and our king good luck and wise decisions in the coming year! :) --O u WTBsjrief-mich 17:57, January 28, 2010 (UTC)

Conservative
It's actually quite ironic, but your viewpoints are often inspired by social democracy or moderate progressivism. What shall I do with my political chart? 19:55, May 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * That's why I asked ye to put me more to the left ;) Let's keep me where I am now, 'cause it still tends more towards conservativity than to progressivism. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 19:58, May 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yes yes, indeed, I know that . You take in quite a peculiar position. On the one side, you're rather homophobic, pro-family values and traditions, regionalist and pro free market. But then, you support easy immigration policy, low treshold health care, political reform, referenda, etc. You know, you make it tough on me to make my chart ;), but most of all it makes me happy. I like political independents. 20:00, May 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * Hhaha :P Think Conservatively Christian progressive party would have been a petter name :D --O u WTBsjrief-mich 20:03, May 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * Lol. What about "Just Me Party"?  20:05, May 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * Haha :P I actually wanted to get rid of my führer-image at LOWIA :D --O u WTBsjrief-mich 20:05, May 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * I watched a documentary on Wilders' populism last night. Oh I hate that kind of guys  20:09, May 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * With the EU elections Wilders was at my first place with the stemwijzer :P But now he has dropped: 1. was shared by CDA and SGP (:P), 2. was shared by Rita Verdonk and Geertje, 3. was ChristenUnie :D --O u WTBsjrief-mich 20:10, May 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * Verdonk? Lol. 20:15, May 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * I can't understand Verdonk anyhow, so she doesn't get me vote :P Nor does Geertje, 'cause he has dropped :D CDA is too neutral and CU is too left, so SGP it'll be (even though I'm catholic :P) --O u WTBsjrief-mich 20:17, May 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * You're voting gereformeerd? That's funny   20:18, May 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * At least they're christian :D --O u WTBsjrief-mich 20:20, May 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * Lol. One of my top reasons not to vote for a party . Anyway, I'm off! See ya, 20:21, May 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * Hahaha :D Thanks for the logo and goodbye :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 20:22, May 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * That stemwijzer is nonsense. Every time I get the same, it's dissatisfying and making me hopless: SP and PVV, the two extremes haha . The stemwijzer is really select as there are only 30 questions, in my opinion it may not be at all the motivation to decide to vote for somebody. Besides, some questions are really crap, while there are plenty of other important issues like foreign politics or economy. What does that bother me, "Mensen in dienst van de overheid mogen tijdens hun werk geen hoofddoek dragen.", for God's sake! :P Just leave the whole Islam thing out, we're in the middle of an economically hard period here... Bucu 09:00, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
 * Hahah, you should check all boxes except those concerning islam at the end, where they ask for which you find the most important :D --O u WTBsjrief-mich 09:02, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
 * Come on, there are still plenty of other important issues in this country . The whole political agenda is just fucked up. Bucu 09:04, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
 * That's why I'm in favor of abolishing politics IRL; it has become a game in which you only have to say idiot things and get enough money in 4 years time to live the coming 20 years in relative wealth.. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 09:09, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
 * Now you sound like a Greek communist idiot :P Bucu 09:11, May 24, 2010 (UTC)


 * 1) PVV
 * 2) Verdonk
 * 3) VVD
 * 4) SGP
 * 5) CDA

En dat terwijl ik bij alle islam-punten pro-islam was (behalve bij hoofddoek dragen in dienst bij de overheid :P) en vind dat de winkels op zondag gewoon open moeten :P. Maarja, twee populisten wegstrepen en ik kom uit bij de VVD, dus dat kan nog wel ;) Bucu 09:08, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
 * :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 09:14, May 24, 2010 (UTC)

Yay!!!
This is the former LOWIA i see well here's one more member. Alexey Hovlouchuk, it's up to you if you want to put him on the member list. Marcus Villanova 20:58, May 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * I'll sleep a night on it ;) have to go now :) goodbye --O u WTBsjrief-mich 21:02, May 23, 2010 (UTC)

Bliep, bliep, PING!
You probably wont be surprised I was watching the movements of the LD carefully but now you are more than just a 'bliep' on my radar, you're a PING! now. The CPL.nm, and without doubt many others, will consider you a political enemy (in stead of opponent). Don't take it to personal when I make a charge. 06:50, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
 * Why can't we live together in a peacful Christian world with Christian morals and Christians values :'( --O u WTBsjrief-mich 07:52, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
 * Because Christian values and morals are ambiguous, dangerous, multi-interpretable, homophobic things? Why don't we live together in a peaceful world with universal morals and universal values, under law and order, with the protection of our universal rights and freedoms?  07:57, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
 * You're not my enemy, by the way . I'm centrist, so only those in the corners are my enemies . 08:01, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
 * If you would leave out The CCPL opposes legalization of euthanasia, abortion, prostitution, drugs, gay marriages and adoption of children by gay couples and They are entitled to vote at elections, but may not participate in elections, as that is contradictive to the vocation of women we would actually be more left than LD :D --O u WTBsjrief-mich 08:04, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
 * I know, but everyone who beliefs in 'the vocation of woman' as a political argument can consider him/herself as a (political) enemy of mine. Such conservative values are very not-of-this-time. Why can't we all live in a relativist world where people try to do good, make decisions based on reason and understanding and leave behind constructed differences such as religion, ethnicity and gender? Oh right, because those constructed differences have brainwashed over 90% of the world population.  08:53, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
 * It indeed depends on where and with whom you've grown up. As I'm not grown up in a godverlaten, dissoluut oord, I know the correct morals and values, in contrast to you :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 08:59, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm raised in a 'godvergeten gat' too, went to a christian school and have moderate christian parents. I had to educate myself to find the right left values. 09:01, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
 * That's probably where the error lies :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 09:03, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
 * The values of your party really make me shiver. I see you incorporated brainwashing lessons in your program. How nice of you to make sure the children of Lovia find the correct values. Luckily most MOTC have a corrupted value system so you wont be able to push these things trough. Just for the record: gay marriage and adoption by gay couples are allowed in Lovia since they aren't forbidden. 09:08, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
 * I know, and that's why I considered it a testimonial party ;) --O u WTBsjrief-mich 09:10, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
 * Well, a system in which hard-working people get the same reward as a toilet cleaner can also be called rotten. Bucu 09:12, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
 * I never asked for such a system. Nonetheless I think we need more gay people in Lovia. And hey, why don't you write this in your party program: 'government should save at least a 1000 souls a year and assure their save passage to heaven'?
 * :'( --O u WTBsjrief-mich 09:17, May 24, 2010 (UTC)

Applying
09:26, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
 * Name: Yuri Medvedev
 * Religious background: raised christian but got lost long ago; I think religion is a fictional construct of mankind
 * Gender: male; can females even join? (PS: it should be sexes, since 'gender' refers to the pattern of institutionalized roles and behavior that is expected by society)
 * Short motivation: I don't really want to join but thought I'd give it a try anyway
 * Not accepted: you are already a member of a different party :P Otherwise I would have considered letting you in ;) --O u WTBsjrief-mich 09:29, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks, but can you fix the sex/gender thing. I just corrected it in the inhabitant infobox too. 09:30, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
 * Hey Yuri what you said up there about gender/sex really touched me. Also boys no more word "lady," only "women" :) Christina Evans 09:37, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
 * Being polite is important but being correct even more so. I don't think saying women is a bad thing ('vrouw' in Dutch) as long as you leave behind any negative connotation. When I say woman I mean 'someone of the female sex', not 'a hot thing that has to wear a dress and diet to keep a nice figure' for that would be gender in contemporary western society. 09:41, May 24, 2010 (UTC)

Bye
It really surprised me when I noticed you were gone, well not really gone but you get the point. I hope you have finally found what you were looking for. May our parties work together well. Harold Freeman 10:01, May 25, 2010 (UTC)
 * It does proportion Congress quite well :
 * LD - 4
 * CPL.nm - 3
 * WLP - 3
 * CCPL - 1
 * LLCP - 1
 * independents - 3


 * (including the candidates currently above the Red Line)
 * Looks quite well-proportioned to me :) 11:03, May 25, 2010 (UTC)
 * :) --O u WTBsjrief-mich 15:05, May 25, 2010 (UTC)
 * + 1 NLS, thus: Commies - 4 :| Bucu 15:07, May 25, 2010 (UTC)
 * A divided left flank = very realistic, lots of lefties in Congress = not so very realistic.  15:09, May 25, 2010 (UTC)

Are we missing some Republicans here or do we have some of that same dough in Lovia? --Lars Washington 15:45, May 25, 2010 (UTC)
 * Nobody ever needs the GOP here . -- 15:57, May 25, 2010 (UTC)
 * AMEN DO YOU REALLY WANT SARAH PALINA OVER HERE?!?!?!?!?Marcus Villanova[[Image:Flag of Lovia Small.png|border|20px]] 21:10, May 25, 2010 (UTC)
 * Of course not because she is in politics which is in conflict with her 'vocation'.  05:29, May 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * Or DO YOU WANT THIS--


 * As you see i really HATE republicans... sorry i get to hyped...Marcus Villanova[[Image:Flag of Lovia Small.png|border|20px]] 21:20, May 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * oh and BYE OTWB we'll miss yall... lol!Marcus Villanova[[Image:Flag of Lovia Small.png|border|20px]] 21:29, May 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * I don't like his ideas either but the break-away seriously weakened the LD (no offense guys but OWTB was your number one man in Congress). Perhaps my good old friend Harold could fill in the gap? 10:39, May 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * Hahaha, because I didn't do anything? :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 14:38, May 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * You did make a lot of comments (or must I say critics). You are also easy noticed when you vote contra a lot.  14:54, May 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * Hahah, no, Alexandru is the real star for voting contra :D --O u WTBsjrief-mich 14:58, May 27, 2010 (UTC) (cause he votes contra even if a minor point isn't excactly as he wants :P)
 * It is a major loss for the LD nonetheless. It is like I would leave the CPL, still good members left but not the most active ones (no offense guys, you're wonderful comrades!) 15:01, May 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * I wasn't a member of the LD, but of LOWIA, so actually I only broke the LD-LOWIA coalition :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 15:04, May 27, 2010 (UTC)

Criticism
This party is really discriminating women and homosexual people with some of its plans Pierlot McCrooke 09:18, August 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * Indeed, hence the words 'conservative' and 'christian' in the name. 09:55, August 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * Surprise surprise. 10:02, August 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * :'( --O u WTBsjrief-mich 10:54, August 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * Just don't take it personal 'cause it's not ;-) 11:03, August 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * As my grandpa said "Once you like politics you've sold your soul to the devil!" In the sense it's bis nothing personal (I think that's a Dr. Dre Quote... lol) Marcus Villanova WLP [[Image:Flag of Lovia Small.png|border|20px]] 14:09, August 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * I defenitely don't like the female discrimination thingy... Martha Van Ghent 15:43, August 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * Nor do I. Oppression of women is something for wussies. I said! Percival E. Galahad 15:43, August 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * No-one of us, except the members of the CCPL, do so. Nevertheless, it's their right to propose to change that . But as OWTB pointed out, it's a "testimonial party", not intending to actually change a thing. (Cos they can't.) 18:32, August 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * Too bad, the Lovian Kingdom of Christ sounded like an admirable concept to me.  08:13, August 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * Well, let's wait 'till the final judgement è :P --`O u WTBsjrief-mich 08:16, August 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * Sure and in the mean time we can work on the socialist paradise. 08:18, August 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * Why? :( --O u WTBsjrief-mich 08:22, August 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * Because there is war, poverty, hatred, ... if we have to wait till judgement day there wont be much happy folks left to judge. Create a positive environment and people will find positiveness in their souls. (I believe that's Buddhist talk) 08:24, August 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * Those things can easily be explained: as long as there are people not listening to the word of God there will be war, poverty, hatred. We indeed should create a positive environment using Christian morals and values :) --O u WTBsjrief-mich 08:36, August 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * Like install the Pope as a dictator, right? I think this one has experience with absolute obedience and respect for authority so maybe we should take a shot at it. Christian and socialist values don't differ that much. 08:40, August 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * Indeed, we both have the same goal: equality and respect for everything which needs to be respected (for socialist this means excluding capitalism and for christians this means excluding all those things summed up on this page :P) --O u WTBsjrief-mich 08:47, August 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * The biggest difference lies in the way these values are acquired. Perhaps your party grows now the LD is gone? Walden surely got the grease of the goose. 08:51, August 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * Perhaps :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 09:15, August 9, 2010 (UTC)

Applying (2)

 * Name: Semyon Breyev
 * Religious background: Christian
 * Sex: Male
 * Motivation: I want to join a party which is based on God's principles rather than humans'. Is that enough? I can expand if you like. Semyon E. Breyev 12:45, August 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * It discrminates women Pierlot McCrooke 14:37, August 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * That sure is a pity. -- 14:46, August 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * It doesn't discrminate it just wan't to keep them safe i guess the wording was bad! But still if your conservative you could just join the Capitalist Party, I created it to tie up a loose end! It's a local Party but you could make it major! Marcus Villanova WLP [[Image:Flag of Lovia Small.png|border|20px]] 14:53, August 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * Accepted :) --O u WTBsjrief-mich 15:10, August 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * Cool two members now awesome, I guess all the crap about women doesn't stop anyone! JK I still think that it's worded very wierdly and that's why people comment. But people are talking about it so that's good ! Marcus Villanova WLP [[Image:Flag of Lovia Small.png|border|20px]] 15:13, August 10, 2010 (UTC)\
 * Tho I must say even our most legal conservative patries are sorta liberal, that's why i like Europe and Lovia ! Marcus Villanova WLP [[Image:Flag of Lovia Small.png|border|20px]] 15:18, August 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * Indeed, it's like dogs: negative attention also is attention! :) --O u WTBsjrief-mich 15:19, August 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yes very true! So what are you gonna do with the capitalist party I see you put a UC there? Marcus Villanova WLP [[Image:Flag of Lovia Small.png|border|20px]] 15:22, August 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks! @Marcus:I'm not a woman so I don't really care. (only joking of course) Semyon E. Breyev 15:33, August 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * I know! That's awseome hope you have fun at the CCPL...Marcus Villanova WLP [[Image:Flag of Lovia Small.png|border|20px]] 15:35, August 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * You can't use the words 'fun' and 'christian' (or 'conservative') in one truthful sentence unless it is a negation - like mine.  07:22, August 11, 2010 (UTC)

I was wondering if all members have to support the entire program. The parts about economy and education are fine for me but some other elements I do not like that much. Harold Freeman 08:09, August 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * Well eh.. Depends on which parts. :) --O u WTBsjrief-mich 09:03, August 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * If you dissagree that Everyone should be cristian,No gays, no abortion, and no anything but you do agree with marching in lines and stuff then sure... I have nothing agianst conservatisism or stuff (I like diversity) but no religon in politics plaease! I wouldn't mind this party if it was just the Conservative Party of Lovia! Marcus Villanova WLP [[Image:Flag of Lovia Small.png|border|20px]] 23:47, August 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * I do not agree with the restrictions for woman and gay people. I think abortion and euthanasia should be carefully handled but I do not favor a total ban. My opinion is obviously too liberal for a conservative party. Harold Freeman 08:22, August 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * Well, at least you feel these things should be carefully handled. Many liberals are more extreme: abortion is okay, no questions asked. There should be a good reason, right? "I am to poor" or "I do not want kids" is a lousy reason to abort a perfectly healthy baby. Then just have the kid and then give the fruit of your loin away for adoption. Maybe I should join this patrty, to bad I am a buddhist and a communist. :-D BastardRoyale 10:30, August 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * I am a christian but not that inspired by religion. I think rape victims or people with a serious inheritable disease are entitled to have an abortion if they want one. A communist Buddhist? I did not know that was possible :D Harold Freeman 10:44, August 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * It is possible. You see, as a buddhist, I do not care much for my earthly belongings and I am more then willing to share! BastardRoyale 10:49, August 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * I am not that much into socialism or buddhism but is socialism not about giving the people the wealth they deserve while buddhism is about letting go of desire and be happy with being poor? Or is that to much of a caricature? Harold Freeman 10:51, August 12, 2010 (UTC)

Religion and politics
Religion has NO place in politics! It is a bad combination thst is not in the best interest of the poeple. Religion in government is waht leads to fundamentalism. Fundamentalism then leads to a religious state like Iran. This is a a bad thing for Lovia, and for democracy! People of Lovia, this is my message: Do NOT vote for CCPL! Michel-s 20:42, September 17, 2010 (UTC)
 * Please Michel-s stop this annoying rant on every talk page about Un-democratic crap. If not you'll get banned, Thnk you! Marcus Villanova Walden [[Image:Flag of Lovia Small.png|border|20px]] 20:59, September 17, 2010 (UTC)
 * I don't think you are the right person to say that Michel-s. In fact you have not yet done a single useful edit on this site. I believe you are only here to irritate us and that's a bad thing. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 07:42, September 18, 2010 (UTC)
 * Hehee, een moraalridder op Lovia. SjorskingmaWikistad 09:47, September 18, 2010 (UTC)
 * Agreed Michel is kinda getting annyoing Marcus Villanova Walden [[Image:Flag of Lovia Small.png|border|20px]]
 * Please Michel, come with an alternative. Considering your recent attacks on monarchy, fascism, communism and religion I take it that you are yourself some kind of a liberal? Take a look at the Liberal Union and try to change things from within the system.  07:01, September 22, 2010 (UTC)

Applying (3)

 * Name: Ygo August Donia
 * Religious background: Christian
 * Sex: Male
 * Motivation: I am against abortion, I dislike feminism, I believe our nation has way to many atheists and conservatism agrees with me. Dr. Magnus 18:32, October 1, 2010 (UTC)
 * PS: I joined the LCP and it merged and went down. I then joined the NLS and it merged and closed down. I guess God does not want me to be a socialist. He gave me signs... Dr. Magnus 18:33, October 1, 2010 (UTC)
 * Well, if you've found the Light of God, who am I to dim it. As I do not seem to get much support for our big difference (Castle Donia), I'll leave it up to the new governor of Sylvania (as that probably will be BastardR, I guess you ain't got no problem there). Ygo August Donia, welcome to the Conservative Christian Part of Lovia! :) --O u WTBsjrief-mich 06:22, October 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * Wow surprising! Marcus Villanova 23:09, October 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * With the bible in his hand, Ilava will guide Oceana trough these dark times as a bright star on a cloudy night. He has the expertise, and needs all the support he can get. The alternative is: horror, lost morals, loss of culture, the end of civilisation as we know it. Dr. Magnus 17:55, October 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * As long as he doesn't preach some mixed up liberation theology where people get nailed to crosses to free Oceana of the Lovian oppressors it's fine with me.  07:14, October 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yuri, its a long way from being a devout christian to being a fanatical one. ;) Dr. Magnus 08:12, October 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * Good idea Yuri! :P Nah, let's stick to the usual Roman-Catholic stuff ;) --O u WTBsjrief-mich 08:15, October 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * A pitty. But I still can chant devote songs in Latin if you are elected governor, can I? 08:35, October 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * Sure ye can man. We're gonna keep the constitution things and that includes freedom of speech and chanting :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 09:04, October 10, 2010 (UTC)

Party reform
I have tried to keep it conservative and Christian, but also tried to make it more progressive and more to the center. Therefor I have left many notes like "Party members are free to make their own decision about ...". I really want to know whether this reform is acceptable by you guys (which means our members) or whether it is too much. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 10:47, October 19, 2010 (UTC)
 * It's acceptable to me but not the abortion thingy because "abortion because sex before marriage results in satanic kids" is, with all due respect, a silly and ridiculous reason. Abortion is worse then pre-marital sex, though both are sinful and unwanted. Dr. Magnus 10:49, October 19, 2010 (UTC)
 * Okay, I'll await Semyon's respons. I'll change it then. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 10:51, October 19, 2010 (UTC)
 * My parents never married, you see. So if my mother would have listened to a priest telling her she would give birth to a reincarnation of Satan, neither me or any of my siblings would have excisted. Just that you know. Dr. Magnus 10:54, October 19, 2010 (UTC)
 * Personally, I think aborting the child is simply adding another sin to the first. It's also irresponsible; people are not forced to face up to the consequences of their actions, and so are likely to repeat them. (cf the 16-year old girl in my school who became pregnant three times, and aborted the first two.) --Semyon 11:00, October 19, 2010 (UTC)
 * Well, you are free to keep opposing abortion with this reform. So, do you agree with it? You can still remain very conservative, but now we can also attract less conservative people and more left-orientated people. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 11:02, October 19, 2010 (UTC)
 * I agree with keeping the 'impregnated against her will' part, but not the 'before marriage' part. It's a good idea to keep the 'Party members may have their own opinion' notes, however. --Semyon 11:15, October 19, 2010 (UTC)
 * Okay, I'll leave that part out :) --O u WTBsjrief-mich 11:21, October 19, 2010 (UTC)

On education
Our nation has freedom of speech, more or less. It lacks freedom of education, however. When parents choose to send their children to a school in which they can follow religious classes and learn about the beliefs of their ancestors, they should be able to do so. However they are not, not in Lovia. In Lovia, teaching children about, say, Christianity (or Islam, for the matter) is forbidden. It is not allowed. Because it is indoctrination. If a school opens with saying a prayer, if a school lets children recite psalms or sing religious songs, it is called "brainwashing" the pupils. This is, of course, ridiculous. But we are ruled by a paranoid, militant atheist majority. An atheist majority who claims tolerance and acceptance of "opposing views", but at the same time, opress our beliefs. We need to reform the educational system in Lovia. Schools should be able to teach their own programs, not be forced to teach the programs the government has written. Programs that ridicule religion. Programs in which there is no place for creationism. Dr. Magnus 17:34, November 6, 2010 (UTC)
 * Agreed, actually when they converted the Bisschoppelijke Colleges to Rijksscholen in the nineties about 20% of the students skipped the first class of the day to go to the church. As long as we don't have a fair and non-discriminative educational system (parents may choose to which school they send there children: atheist, muslim, christian, jewish, etc) this is something we might allow. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 18:15, November 6, 2010 (UTC)
 * Frankly, I am sick and tired of our people being discrimated against by the same government that is supposed to look out for all its citizens. I'm not alone in this. We should think of an educational program-reform, and make a proposal for this. Dr. Magnus 21:01, November 6, 2010 (UTC)
 * Or send them to private institutes which are financed by the incomings of the local mines. On this way you'd create a state within a state :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 07:02, November 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * @Pierius: you haven't read the law well. I am not going to summarize it for you, because I think you ought to read it for yourself. Your conclusions are based on nonsense. 08:13, November 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * @Dimitri:read this. they want to declare oceana independent Pierlot McCrooke 08:17, November 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yeah, ain't gonna do it again... --O u WTBsjrief-mich 08:22, November 7, 2010 (UTC)

Well, Dimitri, I'll cite from Article 6.3.5.1: ''In a course called 'Religions of the world', children may be taught about religions. If the school wishes to teach this subject, all major religions should be brought to attention, as well as a non-religious attitude.'' Actually, the law does say "brought to attention". If you ruim opvatten this then you could say: "Islam is a religion" and give all other lessons about Christianity. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 08:29, November 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * The law (enforced in this by means of the REAC) doesn't allow doctrinal classes. Religion can be studied in the classroom as an historical (crusades, Ottoman Empire, ...), sociological (link with elite, charity for the poor) and cultural phenomenon (biblical inspired art, holy books). Any classes that teaches religion in a non-neutral way can not be allowed on an officially subsidized school. If you feel the need to such lessons I suggest you start a (private) sunday school. 08:37, November 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * Could you cite me the text in the law? Anyway, sunday school is not a possibility. (zondag = rustdag) --O u WTBsjrief-mich 08:38, November 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * Federal Law Article 6 points 3.5.1 and 3.5.2 I think. Maybe there are some more specifications around but those are the ones you need. 08:51, November 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * The same as I cited above. Actually the law does not forbid Christian lessons as long is they are brought with an "It could be that..."-attitude. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 08:55, November 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * Replace the 'it could be attitude' with a 'religious people of this tendency say that', add how this religious tendency 'proves' this (by referring to some holy text or something) and then offer enough alternative world views, also with how they provide which evidence. Then I can agree, because you would have a neutral lesson in comparative world views. 09:02, November 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * Or burn up the school and send your children to the church. Unless you offer more Christian in percentage, f.e. 50% Christian (split up in Catholic, Protestant, Orthodox), 25% Atheist, 10% Moslim, 10% Buddhist etc. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 09:07, November 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * Separate education for different religions is again indoctrination, whether you say 'it could be that' in advance or not. Give it all and let the kids themselves determine which they deem acceptable. Sure, my local priest is afraid of that too; just imagine kids thinking for their own... 09:18, November 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * Long live Luther! 09:20, November 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * It's an edgy problem guys... Too bad we ain't part of the EU. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 09:40, November 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * I love the EU but it is far from perfect. In most countries religions are still funded by the state, which results in discrimination of less organized and historic religions. Also, sunday morning the state-funded Radio 1 broadcasts 'de mis'!! 09:47, November 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * What do you want: largest fraction in EU parliament are the conservative/christian-democrats. 09:48, November 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * Indeed, but I ain't a supporter of the EU, unlike you guys :P Rather funny, the EU is good for me and bad for you, while I hate it and you love it somehow :) --O u WTBsjrief-mich 09:49, November 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * I love the idea of the EU but not the EU itself. Bureaucracy is my main concern, I think; having lived abroad most of my life I am fairly unpatriotic, so I wouldn't mind further integration. --Semyon 18:25, November 20, 2010 (UTC)
 * I hate the EU probably even more than I hate the Netherlands, so I'm waiting on the day that the EU'll fall :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 13:47, November 21, 2010 (UTC)

Elections
It might be a good idea to start planning for these elections. --Semyon 18:27, November 20, 2010 (UTC)
 * OK, what would you like to plan then? :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 13:46, November 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * Well, who's gonna run for MOTC? Semyon, Pierius, OWTB? If we give us all our important votes, f.e. I give Semyon 3 and Pierius 2, Pierius gives me 3 and Semyon 2 and Semyon gives Pierius 3 and me 2 it's the best we can do. We can't reach much with only one/two guy(s) elected and having a PM. We can reach much more if everyone's elected. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 14:27, November 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I'm gonna run for MOTC! And yes, I think it is of vital importance we get as much of us elected as we can. Bucu will also soon be unblocked after which he, too, can cast his votes and make sure we get as many of our people elected as possible. All our members should run, and it wouldn't hurt to gain some outsider votes. :P Dr. Magnus 14:31, November 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * Indeed. Outsider votes might become tricky though :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 14:32, November 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * I may try to reach comrade Hengist Smid of the LCP? From the good ol' commie days! Dr. Magnus 14:39, November 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * Eh.. I'll leave that decision up to you :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 14:42, November 21, 2010 (UTC)

Latin
Latin is a member, then he is no longer a member, then he is, then he isn't? I dunno what to think of this, Ilava. Dr. Magnus 13:40, November 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * I'll send you a mail with an explanation. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 13:45, November 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * Received, comrade. Dr. Magnus 13:55, November 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * :) --O u WTBsjrief-mich 14:04, November 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * Could I have one too please? --Semyon 18:43, November 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * Could you send me an e-mail first? Then it's easier for me 'cause I can "send it through" then. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 18:48, November 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * OK. --Semyon 18:49, November 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * Got it? --Semyon 18:53, November 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yes, I've sent a reaction :) --O u WTBsjrief-mich 18:55, November 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks. :) --Semyon 19:12, November 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * Good :) --O u WTBsjrief-mich 19:13, November 27, 2010 (UTC)

Resignation
I have decided to leave. This is not because of any disagreement with the party's goals, which I still support. It's because I feel party politics has gone too far in Lovia. I know we may not be corrupt in the same way as some of Walden's politicians, but didn't we ourselves start working out who should vote for who in order to get elected?

Like I said, I still support the CCPL, and if I am elected to Congress I hope we can work together. --Semyon 17:15, November 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * OK. If you decide to leave we can't force you to stay of course. Good luck with the elections :) --O u WTBsjrief-mich 17:46, November 29, 2010 (UTC)

It's a shame you plan on leaving us. Are you sure this is really what you want, Semyon? You have always been a faithful member of the party and your dislike for party politics is probably the result of a change in the atmosphere in Lovia that has occured lately. Things will blow over and before you know it, everything will be as it was. Our nation has always had party politics and will always have them, we'd better adjust to this fact and keep our heads cool. Pierius Magnus 17:52, November 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * Welcome Semyon, to the group of independent candidate MOTCs who are in some specific way related to CCPL! You see, I don't see the problem here if CCPL would still recognize Semyon (and me, in fact) as good and stable partners, as we still have the same ideas! That's why I'd like to ask the CCPL to think of a electoral strategy and to eventually show that you Christians still feel responsible for the election of partners like Semyon and me! Make overtures! There's a bright future for us conservatives in Parliament!  Bucu 15:29, November 30, 2010 (UTC)

Word of good faith
To ensure the crisis of Walden doesn't contaminate other parties/the elections/Lovian democracy I would like to express a word of good faith in what I believe to be still an oppositional party. Though I dislike the views of the CCPL, I have always considered their MOTC to be among the best. Confident that we do not have to spiral towards a big clash, mud campaigns, etc. I'd like to stress the fact that our parties do share at least our confidence in fair, democratic elections and a good cooperation afterwards. Sincerely, 08:19, December 1, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yes, we want to get elected on a fair, democratic way in order to replace the democracy with a theocracy :) --O u WTBsjrief-mich 15:16, December 1, 2010 (UTC)
 * Great, maybe I have to counterbalance by devising some domination plans of my own. 16:18, December 1, 2010 (UTC)
 * OK, I guess.. :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 16:31, December 1, 2010 (UTC)
 * Wow, interestnig, so now the CCPL is just a fine opponent, instead of a political enemy (see ) Bucu 18:58, December 1, 2010 (UTC)
 * :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 05:47, December 2, 2010 (UTC)

Page Layout
Just to maybe have a better aesthetic layout, could we maybe put a template on this page? I mean, CPL.nm and Walden have this already in place, and I think that our article would be much more appealing with it. If nobody minds, I'd be up to it. Edward Hannis 05:51, December 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * Btw, I'm talking about a template talking about our members, foundation, close-to, far-from, that type of stuff. See the big sidebar templates on CPL.nm and Walden if you don't know what I mean. Edward Hannis [[File:CogHammer.gif]] 05:52, December 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * Great idea! Bucurestean 09:44, December 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * Well, the benefit of a template is not really large, so I ain't gonna put none of my time in it. If you want to spend some time and effort for it: go ahead! :) --O u WTBsjrief-mich 14:38, December 2, 2010 (UTC)

Join Party
I'am wants join this party. And my on the site. I'am join the party but not on the site. Iscool 19:23, December 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * And I am very glad to have you as a member of this site. We need as much members we can get. Now how about the Lovian Iscool Party? Pierius Magnus 19:26, December 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * Ok. You're in :) --O u WTBsjrief-mich 09:26, December 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * This Iscool fellow a friend of Pierlot. He's from FL, but fled to a "more active enviorment". Pierius Magnus 10:34, December 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * Great! Though, not to sound mean, I'm all for this guy, but can he speak English all that well? Do we know anyone that could help him, maybe? Just suggesting. Edward Hannis [[File:CogHammer.gif]] 16:40, December 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * We've had many users who didn't speak English that well in the past, so with a little help (if he's Dutch you can ask him to say something in Dutch and then one of us can translate it for you) it won't be a problem I believe. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 18:49, December 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * He is darn young though. That's not a big issue, but experience has taught us the youngest users often cause the most trouble to moderators - Pierlot, Justin, etc. You're all welcome though . Being here is a great way to improve your English language proficiency and social skills! 18:52, December 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yeah? Have my social skills been improved then? :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 18:56, December 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * You're "the uitzondering die de regel bevestigt" . Just joking :) 19:00, December 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * Hahaha, why do we pick the same moment to use egotrot? :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 19:08, December 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * Great minds think alike  19:15, December 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * Hahaha :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 19:18, December 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * @Dimi - not all young users made the moderator's heads ache ! Marcus Villanova Music is Life.Lean Forward.Walden
 * @Marcus - Watch out for that self-fulfilled irony. :) Edward Hannis [[File:CogHammer.gif]] 21:57, December 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * Ha..lolz Marcus Villanova Music is Life.Lean Forward.Walden 21:58, December 22, 2010 (UTC)

Pre-election talks
Dear chairman of the CCPL,

As Walden chairwoman, I am looking forward to interesting elections and another constructive Congress. We have all noticed how scattered and divided the political landscape can be and I expect it will be no different in January. That's why Walden would like to anticipate on these elections and on the formation of a coalition government. We have no guarantee whatsoever that we will be involved in the process, but being responsible politicians, it is our mere duty to consider the issue carefully.

What would your party's key points for 2011 be? In other words: which issues would your party like to tackle first and most once elected?

Then too, I would like to know how you think about collaborating with Walden. Would your party be able and willing to work together closely with the progressive-environmentalist party Walden and its members?

Thank you very much!

Chairwoman, Martha Van Ghent 18:12, December 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * Our key-points will be getting the local level of Lovia active again (working up from a small scale) and ensuring Christian morals and values.
 * Our party can work with every MOTC. On environmentalist issues we quite share some points and I think we can work closely together. Of course some points, like gay marriage, are more problematic. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 18:59, December 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * Well I think "working something out" is possible. I am, however, not a very big fan of forming coalitions, especially not before the actual elections. There is no way any of us can predict the future... one prediction I can make already; we'll have a different PM next year, or so it seems. Pierius Magnus 19:06, December 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * Thank you chairman. @Magnus: we're definitely not speculating about pre-election coalition. We are informing ourselves and the public about possible post-election coalitions and cooperation. Martha Van Ghent 19:10, December 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * Well then, nothing wrong with that! Did you already know, by the way, that Pierlot is now running for PM with permission of Yuri? I must admit; I never saw that one coming. Pierius Magnus 19:14, December 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * It certainly is a brave action to do so. I'd like to give him a fair chance in this campaign and would love to see more of his program. Btw: Yuri hasn't provided us with a written endorsement, so I actually doubt whether he's even aware of this move :/ Martha Van Ghent 19:20, December 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * I don't know exactly what was discussed between the two of them, but Pierlot seriously plans on becoming the new PM of Lovia and in the poster, it says Yuri supports him. However Yuri has not been online for, like, eight days. So it's all a bit vague, yet. Pierius Magnus 19:23, December 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * I had written Yuri's Strategy because CPL.nm is Yuri's party Pierlot McCrooke 19:24, December 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * You no longer want to revive IGP? I'm glad you got that outta your mind. ;) Pierius Magnus 19:35, December 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * No. BTW I didnt want to revive IGP but make a new anticabalist party, that isnt racist or undemocratic. However i changed my mind shortly thereafter, and decided to no longer support anticabalism agai Pierlot McCrooke 19:43, December 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * I can't tell you how glad I am you came to this conclusion all by yourself. Maybe maturity finally kicked in? I'm very happy you are no longer involved in these silly conspiracy theories. Pierius Magnus 19:47, December 23, 2010 (UTC)

Election Strategy
In my opinion it has been a great decision of Oos Wes Ilava to remain low-profile on the Prime Minister-thing. Of course, it will be a grandiose accomplishment of ours if our own leader becomes Prime Minister. It would be really impressive. And I think it should still remain our ambition to get Oos elected Prime Minister.

However, we should still have our priorities. Momentarily there are 16 candidates, while there are only 12 free seats. We, the CCPL, have 4 candidates. Simply said, if we want to have more influence in future Congress, we must get all of our 4 candidates elected in Congress. Which is hard. Because, as the King said, the Red Line is higher than ever. One thing is sure: 4 out of the total 16 candidates will not make it. We all must be amongst those 12.

I don't want to propose any coalition, nor do I want to start calculating like some other parties. Lovia wants us in Congress, or it doesn't - it's just like that. Therefore we must remain pragmatic and take in notice the "standings" every day.

I am confident though that we'll do a great job, no matter what the results will be! Cristian Latin 11:15, December 28, 2010 (UTC)


 * It's not a low profile when waldeners read it ! Marcus Villanova Music is Life.Lean Forward.Walden 15:55, December 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * I meant something else, namely that Oos didn't accept nor refuse the idea of trying to become PM. Of course, Waldeners may read it all. I actually wish everyone, every potential voter, to read our ideas, programs or strategies. We want to be transparent. We think it's the voter's right to be able to get to know everything about us :) Cristian Latin 15:58, December 28, 2010 (UTC)

Military
We are pacifists, but that does not mean that we should not have a military to defend ourselves. I know that Donia is in favor, but what would your stance be? Should the CCPL say that we should start an army? Cristian Latin 10:29, December 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * I am not in favor. Lovia has never been threated in history, we've never had a war and therefore I don't think we should have an army. It costs way too much for a small nation Lovia is. It will only lead to people becoming obsessed with it and eventually we'll get pages saying there are 150.000 soldiers in Lovia.. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 10:34, December 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * And if we are going to be threatened in the future, because of our strategical position near the US West Coast? Even a country like San Marino could own us now, if they'd send just 100 troops. And I think the Americans would be interested to help us providing some old free weapons, so the costs would be limited. The army could become an important employer (let's say 200 soldiers = 200 less unemlpoyed people). And no, I don't see any reason why we would get obsessed, creating pages saying there are 150.000 soldiers in a country with 25.000 inhabitants :P. Cristian Latin 10:38, December 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * Who would attack a nation so close to the US? We are like in US territorial waters...  10:41, December 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * I just don't think we need one. It's just too ambitious. Even countries like Iceland don't have a real military, so why should we have it? --O u WTBsjrief-mich 10:41, December 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * (aec 2x) Enemies. You never know when we'll have a WW III :P. Btw, doesn't this look frightening?  Cristian Latin 10:43, December 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * Lovia is protected by the United States thanks to the Monroe Doctrine, so we really don't need a military. And should a WWIII arrive, we're doomed anyhow. Edward Hannis [[File:CogHammer.gif]] 16:05, December 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * Bucu, I'm all in favour of having a military but we must keep it realistic. How about some sort of a small paramilitary organisation made out of volunteers? Or a small, armed police force? Nothing big, just a few hundred members of personnel, no aircrafts, no ships, just some guns and some people to carry them and use them to protect our nation, if needed. Pierius Magnus 16:16, December 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * Maybe like a changing of the gaurd sotra thing? Marcus Villanova Music is Life.Lean Forward.Walden 16:23, December 30, 2010 (UTC)

Haha, lol. Or I'll just start my own private Donia Clan army. Pierius Magnus 16:27, December 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * We could have an emergency militia. Or maybe institute the possibility of martial law. Edward Hannis [[File:CogHammer.gif]] 17:12, December 30, 2010 (UTC)

- Pierius Magnus 18:08, December 30, 2010 (UTC)

On the issue of Iceland- they have a Coast Guard, which has worked with the United States in Iraq. Alot of small micro-nations have long term deals with more advanced and well resoursed nations that could protect then in a time of need. War will always be a factor, and seeing as things getting heated up in North Korea- I wouldent tag our defenses to America. Having some type of National Guard would do just as fine as a Military, in time of a disater they would be present. As for the time being I will join up with the Federal Police.-Zackatron 20:57, December 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * You seem like an intelligent man, who knows what he is talking about. Zackatron, would you like to join the CCPL? You are exactly the sort of man we need to join forces with. Pierius Magnus 21:35, December 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * Come to think of it, you could be a good member of this nation, Zack. I'd recommend you embrace politics in this nation. Soon enough, it'll bring you very high importance in this nation. Edward Hannis [[File:CogHammer.gif]] 21:40, December 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * Indeed it would. And remember: with great power comes great responsibility. Pierius Magnus 21:42, December 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * You ought to tell that to those inactive members out there who haven't voted in the Second Chamber yet! That will slow the system down for sure: an uncompleted bill still in voting when Congress changes. Edward Hannis [[File:CogHammer.gif]] 21:46, December 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * May God have pity on us; we are ruled by those who do not care. Oh and yes, an emergency militia would be a good idea, Hannis. I could also be in favour of martial law, but again: only in times of hardship and trouble. Pierius Magnus 21:48, December 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * We'd need a 2/3 majority in Congress to get it through, type of thing. I'll look into doing that next year, with a fresh Congress, and hopefully a more active one. It's frustrating to have so many people do so little. Edward Hannis [[File:CogHammer.gif]] 21:50, December 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * Not if it's up to us. Maybe the Walden-CCPL coalition will change the way things are done in this nation. Because I know from very reliable sources this coalition is far from dead. Pierius Magnus 21:52, December 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * Villanova been talking under-the-radar again? Edward Hannis [[File:CogHammer.gif]] 21:54, December 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * Don't worry, Villanova has learned his lesson. Of course he is not stupid enough to make the same mistake again. Unlike McCrooke, Villanova is a smart guy who actually learns from his mistakes. And unlike most other liberal politicians, he is open-minded and not afraid of conservatism. It is silly to discuss coalitions before the elections have even begun, but we have absolutely zero reasons to worry about the outcome or aftermath. Pierius Magnus 22:00, December 30, 2010 (UTC)

@ Hannis' ideas: ''We could have an emergency militia. Or maybe institute the possibility of martial law'' Cristian Latin 22:14, December 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * I refuse to believe an army is needed. Consider Costa Rica: it has no army and is one of the most stable nations in the area. But I could agree on a partial 'militarization' of the federal police. After all we don't want to become a save haven for drug trafficking or the smuggling of guns. About the martial law thing: tempting but it might be easily exploited for not-so-fair goals. I'd rather not have it. 08:36, December 31, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yuri, an actual army is still a major step away from "an emergency militia". We should have the guns ready and the people trained to call upon in times of trouble. There will be no militarization of the FP: we will just equip our officers in the field better to allow them to cope with more dangerous situations. Why would we become "a save haven for drug trafficking" because of arming our police officers better? I think it would rather deter the criminals from coming here. Where would you rather smuggle (hard) drugs: in the Netherlands, were you'll only get a couple of months imprisonment or in Thailand, were you'll be hanged? Pierius Magnus 08:51, December 31, 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm afraid you misunderstood me: I want a heavily armed police branch to counter drug trafficking etc. That is what I mean with 'militarization' (bigger guns, more powers, etc.) 08:57, December 31, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I read over the word could. Glad you agree on that one. Pierius Magnus 09:04, December 31, 2010 (UTC)

I've been working on a military system that woulden't be too costly. I'm more into the fact that things happend when not expected. I was hoping to have a force for people who don't want to put they're entire life into police work. I have family that works for the National Guard in Kentucky, but all have full time jobs other than military or law inforcement, they help mostly when weather gets really bad or help direct traffic, but we truely need a military defence- Coasta Rica has very heavly armed 'police force' but they just lable it as a police force and not a military force.Friedrich Steiner 09:16, December 31, 2010 (UTC)
 * But the Costa Rican police can't do foreign operation nor is it liable for the country's defense. They only manage inland security which can make it a 'military police' or 'inland intelligence service' but not an 'army'. About the volunteer militia: if they are going to help when the weather gets bad they don't need riffles, do they? (I believe that one's called civil service) 09:23, December 31, 2010 (UTC)
 * I don't think we are planning to get into a foreign operation- we need to look to Lovia's past and hope that these things don't come back to bite us and leave a larger mark. The Free Republic of Hurbanova came out preacfully and diden't go into a full revolution. What if the Sofasi Riot been worse and the Federal Police been not able to control the raging Nazis, whos going to pull out the big guns and stop them?-Friedrich Steiner 09:39, December 31, 2010 (UTC)
 * That argument is on the margin of nonsensical. If people break the law we take it to court, if users step out of line the site administration steps in. Believe me, so called wannabe criminals are no less than vandals and are to be dealt with accordingly, no matter how strong they claim to be as opposed to our police force. 09:49, December 31, 2010 (UTC)
 * I was thinking this as being more real-worldish..not the fact you can just ban people, I though this was more of a RP thing. I was taking this as being in the real world nation..realations and what not, I'm thinking we are on two diffrent tracks.-Friedrich Steiner 09:59, December 31, 2010 (UTC)
 * Must agree with Zack. We still act like we would be a real nation, right? Cristian Latin 10:11, December 31, 2010 (UTC)
 * We try to be, but there are obvious obstacles, like how to calculate value without money? We rely on reasonable consent for such issues, as is the some with 'criminality'. Even if Lovia said it had the biggest and best equipped army in the world, a user could simply claim that 'he managed to stay undercover just long enough'. 10:13, December 31, 2010 (UTC)
 * No, I was more thinking of a force comparable to the police as in 2008 (an admin who is in charge). In special cases, like large-scaled revolts, you could make use of the military police, also led by an admin. This branch could also be used for international issues concerning Lovia, e.g. for when we're being attacked. Cristian Latin 10:17, December 31, 2010 (UTC)
 * I mean, what do our Feds mean with their .45 Colt if they encounter people with AK47s Cristian Latin 10:19, December 31, 2010 (UTC)
 * I would support such a proposal, but a standing army is too silly for words. Since criminality and site-vandalism are linked, a MP under the site administration is a sound solution. 10:31, December 31, 2010 (UTC)
 * Alright, I think it's a fine compromise. Cristian Latin 10:32, December 31, 2010 (UTC)
 * Anyone in support of an arms prohibition for civilians? 10:33, December 31, 2010 (UTC)
 * Having a army for the website sounds silly, but a national defence force for Lovia dosent..-Friedrich Steiner 10:39, December 31, 2010 (UTC)
 * @Dimi: also pro! US citizens might not like to hear this but what gives the state its power is its monopoly on violence. 10:40, December 31, 2010 (UTC)
 * Dimitri: yes, I would be. However hunters should be able to purchase a gun. Of course this will require a license. Foresters and park rangers should still be allowed to carry arms in order to keep the population of wild life in balance. Nobody without a license should be able to purchase a gun, though. Pierius Magnus 10:41, December 31, 2010 (UTC)
 * Agree. But I think we all Europeans would agree on that :P Cristian Latin 10:42, December 31, 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm fairly happy with a gun in my desk on the left shelf, if you live in Gary Indiana, you would understand..Friedrich Steiner 10:44, December 31, 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm fairly happy with a gun in my desk on the left shelf, if you live in Gary Indiana, you would understand..Friedrich Steiner 10:44, December 31, 2010 (UTC)

Proposal for 2 new points
@OWTB, also see my mails 'bout them women and gays é :P --Cristian Latin 10:48, December 31, 2010 (UTC)
 * 1) The CCPL is in favor of the creation of a national defence force, an organization that has the ability to make use of heavy weapons in cases of major threats that affect Lovia's national security.
 * 2) Furthermore, the CCPL has the wish to establish an arms prohibition for civilians, with exception of licensed hunters.


 * Pierius Magnus 10:49, December 31, 2010 (UTC)
 * --O u WTBsjrief-mich 10:52, December 31, 2010 (UTC)

What about the elections part? I see we are in favor of even more elections. What about shortening the voting period of the State Elections to, let's say 1 week? Cristian Latin 11:01, December 31, 2010 (UTC)
 * Okay :) --O u WTBsjrief-mich 11:04, December 31, 2010 (UTC)

Applying
Would you guys be interested in a fictional member? Valery Adrian would like buy a membership card, she's a moderate conservative protestant. 10:32, December 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * Her husband is a nazi :)) Well, I don't think it should be a problem as long as she isn't. Cristian Latin 10:34, December 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * She's welcome. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 10:34, December 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * Her husband is a populist and a nationalist, but he doesn't have a problem with 'people from non-Lovian origin' as long as they do some effort to adopt our Lovian ways. I'll put her on.  10:36, December 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * I don't care what het husband is :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 10:40, December 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * Does she have to be on the bottom of the list because she's a woman? The other guy doesn't even have a page of his own yet.  10:42, December 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * No, because it's on alphabet :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 10:43, December 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * Omg. Cristian Latin 10:44, December 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * OMG what? You don't like her? 10:44, December 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * Nooo . I had to laugh about the "because she's a woman"-part Cristian Latin 10:46, December 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * It was a joke but you never know... 10:53, December 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 10:54, December 30, 2010 (UTC)

Gay Marriage
(copied from User talk:Bucurestean)

As to separate between church and state, and yet maintain both, I think there is a solution to the concern of gay marriage. Arguably, marriage is religious matter, and if such a religion is against homosexuality, then it is their full right to deny them marriage. Nonetheless, there are subsequent legal meanings to marriage (inheritance, medical decisions, etc.), hence causing discrimination from the government. So, this being said, it is unconstitutional to have the government recognize any value to marriage. So, I propose that the CCPL support two forms of what we call "marriage": The advantage to this system is that confirms separation of church and state, and also maintains the rights of religion, as well as the authority of state. In other words, religion can refuse to marriage to whomever they please, and the government can assure a legal equivalent to anyone they chose to allow it for (the only restriction being age, as far as I can think of). Edward Hannis  16:35, December 31, 2010 (UTC)
 * Religious Marriage - This is organized by the church/mosque/synagogue of their choice, but has absolutely no legal value.
 * Legal Bonding - This is organized by the government, and does have legal value.
 * Agreed. Age not being the only restriction though - those closely related by blood may not marry either. Pierius Magnus 17:23, December 31, 2010 (UTC)
 * I guess so. Though, where would our official limit be, then? Edward Hannis  [[File:CogHammer.gif]] 17:34, December 31, 2010 (UTC)
 * Well, nieces and nephews marrying is okay, I guess, as it happens a lot in certain areas, but should not be incouraged as it weakens the offspring. However siblings (or half-siblings), parents and children, grandparents and grandchildren, uncles\aunts and nieces - those relationships are off-limits, un-ethical and produce retarded offspring. Incest should be made illegal by law, as it is perverted and morally wrong. It is much worse then homosexuality. Pierius Magnus 17:37, December 31, 2010 (UTC)
 * I'll give you that is poses severe secondary effects. So, we'll say that anyone with a common parent/sibling/child or are parent/sibling/child to one another, cannot be "legally bonded." Is that good? In other words, if any two people have a parent, sibling, or child that are the same people (Joe's brother is Sam, Suzie's father is Sam), then they cannot marry. In this case, all of the things you described are prevented. However, taken that the shortest line between two nieces is Niece A to Niece A's Parent to Niece B's Parent to Niece B, it is too far to be prevented. Edward Hannis  [[File:CogHammer.gif]] 17:45, December 31, 2010 (UTC)
 * Agreed. Once again, great minds think alike! Pierius Magnus 17:49, December 31, 2010 (UTC)
 * So do dumb ones...  Edward Hannis  [[File:CogHammer.gif]] 17:57, December 31, 2010 (UTC)
 * Dumb people do not excist, only misinterpreted geniuses. Pierius Magnus 17:58, December 31, 2010 (UTC)
 * "There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." Anyhow, if Bucu and Oos agree to this, we could have this being put through Congress next year. Edward Hannis  [[File:CogHammer.gif]] 18:02, December 31, 2010 (UTC)

Doubt it, if you don't have a good coaltition you can't get anything passed...there is always walden to coalition with! And a happy new year! Marcus Villanova Music is Life.Lean Forward.Walden 18:10, December 31, 2010 (UTC)
 * Maybe if you opened your mind a crack and considered that other parties may like the idea, especially if it's coming from the one party that would have likely refused it, you'd realize that it's very likely to get through. Not only that, but keep in mind you needn't be MOTC to contribute to the First Chamber. Edward Hannis  [[File:CogHammer.gif]] 18:20, December 31, 2010 (UTC)
 * In the end, Marcus, we're all on the same team. Keep that in mind. If you hadn't ever thought about the ultimate goal of (secular) life, then you should start. I have my personal opinion as to what it is, as does anyone else in this world. Edward Hannis  [[File:CogHammer.gif]] 18:22, December 31, 2010 (UTC)

To get back on the legal bonding: I do not agree. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 09:35, January 1, 2011 (UTC)
 * @Hannis: as said on the talk page this discussion was originally on, there is already a proposal being voted about this. Is your goal to make it pass and then alter it or to come with an entirely new proposal? 09:52, January 1, 2011 (UTC)
 * That's quite some text you got there :P I don't want to harm myself, so first I'll wait till the hangover has passed :)) Cristian Latin 09:58, January 1, 2011 (UTC)
 * I just wanted to say this because (1) MOTC should already know this and (2)it would be silly to do double work. 10:02, January 1, 2011 (UTC)
 * Ah me is sorry, hadn't read your comment either :P Cristian Latin 10:04, January 1, 2011 (UTC)

voting
I will be voting for you guys --Owen1983 19:58, January 10, 2011 (UTC)
 * A great decision of yours, Owen! You won't be disappointed! Do you have any further ambitions here in Lovia? We could use someone like you in this country! Cristian Latin 20:02, January 10, 2011 (UTC)

@Bucu: You bet! @Owen: glad to have you here! Pierius Magnus 20:54, January 10, 2011 (UTC)

Plan?
I currently have 18 votes. That means I just took the lead today from Medvedev (14 votes). What will now be our parties voting strategy? Pierius Magnus 19:53, January 14, 2011 (UTC)
 * we win!! call me Batzloff 19:58, January 14, 2011 (UTC)

Winning means: gettin all our four candidates into congress. Preferably by a large margin. Providing a PM (if possible) would be a bonus but is no goal in itself. Pierius Magnus 20:00, January 14, 2011 (UTC)
 * I think we should ensure all our positions. After all it's WAY more important to have more partners in Congress. Don't take it personal, I'd like to see you as a PM :). But I don't think it's necessary to take any risks, you see :P Cristian Latin 20:29, January 14, 2011 (UTC)
 * Lol:
 * Magnus "So were in the lead what's our plan?"
 * Batzloff "WE WIN!"
 * I love that guy Marcus Villanova Music is Life.Lean Forward.Walden 21:12, January 14, 2011 (UTC)
 * Haha Why not ay? :D Cristian Latin 21:43, January 14, 2011 (UTC)
 * Looks as if I'll have to rewrite my after-election speech. Just kidding, I already designed two scenario's 'cause Medve is always prepared. 08:36, January 15, 2011 (UTC)
 * C'mon man there are like 2 more weeks to go . Two more people voting for you and you'll be in lead again! Cristian Latin 08:41, January 15, 2011 (UTC)
 * The question is if I want to be in the lead? If a conservative christian party is in the lead then why should a progressive atheist become PM? 08:49, January 15, 2011 (UTC)
 * Dunno, it depends on your ambitions I guess :) Cristian Latin 08:51, January 15, 2011 (UTC)
 * Then it is not my ambition to become PM of a conservative Congress. If Lovia votes CCPL, that is what it should get.  08:54, January 15, 2011 (UTC)
 * You ought to stop thinking in such a black-and-white manner, Yuri. The CCPL and CPL.nm could easily cooperate. Edward Hannis  [[File:CogHammer.gif]] 20:11, January 15, 2011 (UTC)

Youth
I think we also should have a youth organization. In the Netherlands our friends from the SGP have the largest youth organization of all political parties and that's the main reason for there stable success. So, how do you guys look at this? --O u WTBsjrief-mich 13:20, January 15, 2011 (UTC)
 * Geertje says: Let's discuss it after the elections ^^ Cristian Latin 13:51, January 15, 2011 (UTC)

On the new Christian Party, PCP I plan to already make a Community based/sorta reiligous youth program called Good Community, maybe we could make it a joint effort? Marcus Villanova Music is Life.Lean Forward.Walden 20:18, January 15, 2011 (UTC)
 * Well, I'm not familiar yet with the PCP and its views. Also I believe that the name might be a bit "clearer" if you understand what I mean :P We'll see after the elections :) --O u WTBsjrief-mich 21:06, January 15, 2011 (UTC)

Score


Well. :P Cristian Latin 19:16, January 17, 2011 (UTC)
 * Looks like we're doin' juuust fine! Fucking awesome man, damn what a score!! Pierius Magnus 19:24, January 17, 2011 (UTC)

It turly is. Have you disscussed coalitions more? Any progress? Marcus Villanova Music is Life.Lean Forward.PCP 19:25, January 17, 2011 (UTC)
 * Hopefully with this success we'll be able to better work with the CPL.nm & Walden; it's our duty as a successful party to respect the other parties, just as they'll hopefully respect us. Edward Hannis  [[File:CogHammer.gif]] 19:27, January 17, 2011 (UTC)
 * They don't. That is why they create posters portraying us as un-adequate fools and write laws preventing news citizens to vote. Pierius Magnus 19:38, January 17, 2011 (UTC)
 * Van Ghent is clearly uncomfortable with the fact that we will probably win. Keep in mind that the anti-new-voter law is not explicitly anti-CCPL; I like it. It's better if consistent voters are more influential rather than those who are rarely around. Anyhow, I'm planning to launch a United Parties of Lovia organization; a five-point dialogue of 2011. That should get things done. Edward Hannis  [[File:CogHammer.gif]] 19:45, January 17, 2011 (UTC)
 * True, Olaf Englud did nothing recently, Dimi's brother how only votes during elections is hardly active but this would effect both sides greatly. Marcus Villanova Music is Life.Lean Forward.PCP 19:53, January 17, 2011 (UTC)
 * In any case, we are doing just fine. And if all goes well, the PM seat will be ours (mine, to be precise). I'm really looking forward to it (already working on a bunch of laws on my pc). Pierius Magnus 20:22, January 17, 2011 (UTC)
 * Hopefully your not like the American conservatives:
 * DAY ONE: ROLL CALL
 * ORDER OF VOTING
 * SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE MR. BONER: "All in favor of replealing everything the democrats did for two years in the house?"
 * FINAL VOTE: REPUBLICANS ALL YEAS (Control 50%), DEMOCRATS ALL NEYS (Control 50%)
 * BONER: "So we won right?" LOL
 * Don't be like the american republicans. Marcus Villanova Music is Life.Lean Forward.PCP 20:27, January 17, 2011 (UTC)
 * I am famous around these parts of the realm for my dislike of America and it's policies. Pierius Magnus 20:30, January 17, 2011 (UTC)
 * When do elections end? Nathaniel Scribner 20:38, January 17, 2011 (UTC)
 * The 26th, I believe. Pierius Magnus 20:50, January 17, 2011 (UTC)
 * Indeed. Btw Marcus, is it really true that the LAP has officially contacted us about a post-electoral coalition, as you said on PCP/Voting record? Cristian Latin 21:53, January 17, 2011 (UTC)
 * Besides, it would be a little bit ridiculous if there would be a CPL+Walden+PCP+LAP government under a CCPL premmy Cristian Latin 21:55, January 17, 2011 (UTC)
 * Indeed it would. The PM is the one who decides which government Lovia has. 22:10, January 17, 2011 (UTC)
 * Maybe a minority government `a la PVV with CCPL, LAP and PCP ^^ Cristian Latin 22:25, January 17, 2011 (UTC)
 * That would actually be a majority rather then a minority (two liberals, Marcus + four conservatives) Pierius Magnus 22:26, January 17, 2011 (UTC)
 * Yeah, if you'd include Jefferson. Cristian Latin 22:27, January 17, 2011 (UTC)
 * Or do you want to get Hillibilly in Congress? We're still able to vote on him actually :P Cristian Latin 22:28, January 17, 2011 (UTC)
 * Don't worry; Dimitri will vote his buddy Arthur into congress on the last day of the elections, I'm sure of it! Mark my words. Pierius Magnus 22:41, January 17, 2011 (UTC)
 * I am pretty sure of that, but what I meant is that Arthur is not very likely to support our party, mark my words Cristian Latin 22:42, January 17, 2011 (UTC)
 * Just for the record: yes, you could still get Hillbilly elected . Percival asked me the same thing a couple of days ago. 06:47, January 18, 2011 (UTC)
 * @Latin - I really should word things better! I meant that the PCP should keep our eyes open to our best choice or offers, which is either CCPL, LAP, or both. Marcus Villanova Music is Life.Lean Forward.PCP 14:53, January 18, 2011 (UTC)
 * @Latin - I really should word things better! I meant that the PCP should keep our eyes open to our best choice or offers, which is either CCPL, LAP, or both. Marcus Villanova Music is Life.Lean Forward.PCP 14:53, January 18, 2011 (UTC)

Share?
We are awfully close to the end of elections and are both Christian Parties, I was wondering if you's like to change the name of your website from CCPL.lov to Lovianchristians.lov so we could have a joint website promoting Christian views and active political feeds. Marcus Villanova Music is Life.Lean Forward.PCP 22:57, January 19, 2011 (UTC)
 * Not that I'm in charge, but I'm relatively sure that if we want to each be recognized independently, we should avoid doing such things. I think division should be asserted, cooperation suggested. Edward Hannis  [[File:CogHammer.gif]] 02:15, January 20, 2011 (UTC)
 * Indeed, though I do support a separate platform for all Christian parties so we can exchange ideas. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 05:56, January 20, 2011 (UTC)
 * I think my United Parties of Lovia thing could do that. Edward Hannis  [[File:CogHammer.gif]] 06:12, January 20, 2011 (UTC)
 * @Marcus, I'd be a helluva lot easier for you if you'd just join our party and make one big Christian party! @Hannis: sounds interesting. Pierius Magnus 07:35, January 20, 2011 (UTC)
 * Nahh still progressive. Marcus Villanova Music is Life.Lean Forward.PCP 21:56, January 20, 2011 (UTC)

Department of Agriculture
I was wanting to see who your going to place in control of the DiAT, will it be Jon Johnson or will it be some one else? I was really wanting to get into some type of Agricultural job for the government. Thanks :D Nathaniel Scribner 22:00, January 20, 2011 (UTC)
 * If I were you, I'd maybe up the editing of the main-space (articles without prefixes, ie "Lovia" rather than "Talk:Lovia" or "Forum:The Pub"), to make you a more likely candidate. Good luck with that, though. I think that the fact that you showed support for us earns you a few thank-you's from us, especially since you're the only one to show interest in this. Edward Hannis  [[File:CogHammer.gif]] 00:33, January 21, 2011 (UTC)
 * I'd say wait and see who gets the job and write him on his user talk page :) --O u WTBsjrief-mich 06:13, January 21, 2011 (UTC)
 * @Zackatron: It's a good thing you want to get involved in national politics! The Constitution, however, says the Secretaries of those departments should be MOTCs, members of the Congress. 12:42, January 21, 2011 (UTC)
 * Indeed, but he could be chairman of something. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 12:50, January 21, 2011 (UTC)

Congratulations!
Congratulations on your success in these elections! I hope you don't bear a grudge about my 'mixed voting'; the way things turned out, you really didn't need my votes. --Semyon 15:55, January 31, 2011 (UTC)


 * We did need your vote. Our goal was to get ALL our members into congress, and we failed to make sure that happened. With just one or two more points for Hannis and Latin, we would not have lost Latin in the final stages of the race for the Congress. Of course we do not hold a grudge: you are not even a member of this party. Ygo &quot;the Brigade&quot; Donia (Lovian PM) 16:12, January 31, 2011 (UTC)

May I join
May I join this party? I am conservative and politically extremely right-wing. I am, however, not religious as I have lost faith in the Catholic Church. Would I be welcome? The Master&#39;s Voice 12:55, April 29, 2011 (UTC)
 * Some notes: (1) not following the Catholic Church does not imply you are not religious. (2) how extreme is 'extreme'? We already had our fair share of fascist aspirations on this wiki you see. 14:44, April 29, 2011 (UTC)
 * Well, I am the opposite of Communism, my friend. Whereas communism representents the far-left, I represent the far-right. I am no second coming of Der Fuhrer, though, so you needn't worry. The Master&#39;s Voice 14:52, April 29, 2011 (UTC)
 * Well, then we will probably have numerous arguments in the future. Nothing to take personal though, just politics.  14:57, April 29, 2011 (UTC)
 * I believe in the preservation of my people, their cultural heritage and background. That does, however, not mean I wish to harm anyone. In a way, you could see me as a bigot, a xenofobe even. But I will operate within the bounderies of the law at all times. The Master&#39;s Voice 15:02, April 29, 2011 (UTC)
 * Those boundaries are not always clear, but I'd love some people to yell at in Congress. Seeing my 'ugly lost child', the UNS, in Congress would actually be fun. Who knows? 15:05, April 29, 2011 (UTC)
 * I would be interested in representing the party. Would save me the trouble of creating a party of my own, actually. The Master&#39;s Voice 15:07, April 29, 2011 (UTC)
 * I'm sure as a 'moderate rightist of the extreme side' you will be able to find yourself in most of its rhetoric. 15:11, April 29, 2011 (UTC)
 * Then you can consider it done, I will join the UNS and, hopefully, represent them in congress. The Master&#39;s Voice 15:14, April 29, 2011 (UTC)

Addyrand
Can I join thi s party?Addyrand 00:56, May 4, 2011 (UTC)
 * Of course you may... if you'll be quick you might even make it to congress! The Master&#39;s Voice 05:35, May 4, 2011 (UTC)
 * Sure, though I need some answers to this: your name, your religious background, your sex and a short motivation. That's all :) --O u WTBsjrief-mich 10:05, May 4, 2011 (UTC)
 * Name: Karen Durkheim
 * Religion: Christian
 * Motivation: Liked that this pary supports the monarchty, relgigion and free market economies. Addyrand 01:46, May 5, 2011 (UTC)
 * Alright, then I'd say welcome to the party :) --O u WTBsjrief-mich 08:15, May 5, 2011 (UTC)

monopoly's
what is your position over the monopoly's? Granero 00:38, December 16, 2011 (UTC)

Generally, OOC no one likes monopolies (spelling! you are using possessive for plural again), but I'm not sure about the CCPL's position. Generally, they are hands-off on the economy, though, so it could be either way. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 01:18, December 16, 2011 (UTC)

Yeah the only parties that say in their pages that they are going into the economy are: Positive Lovia and the Conservative Nationalist Party. Kunarian 02:16, December 16, 2011 (UTC)

LDP has economic issues listed as well but nothing about monopolies. Maybe I'll add it. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 02:21, December 16, 2011 (UTC)

I'll refer you to our site: Website: www.ccpl.lo. In the right-hand column you'll see two paragraphs with the header economy. :) --O u WTBsjrief-mich 06:10, December 16, 2011 (UTC)

Lewis, Jhon
I've seen Thursday a documentary about the life of Queen Elizabeth II of the United Kingdom and I've learned many about here life but also of the political relations between Ireland and the UK. Ireland is a social and more extremes-left country and the British people are also socialist but more center-democratics and center-conservatives. In my points of view, I have discovered that I'm more a center-democratic person with social and conservative views. I'm before the noble titles and the royal family but also before abortion and euthanasia. I'm against the death penalty, extreme communism and legal weed. I think that Jhon Lewis not longer more a member of the Labour Party is but a member of this Conservative Christian Party because I'm a conservative, a christian and a politician ... Why not? Wabba The I 09:53, June 2, 2012 (UTC)

By "before", do you mean "for"? —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 13:10, June 2, 2012 (UTC)

Yes, I will edit all pages with the name of Lewis. Since tomorrow, June 2, 2012, Lewis is a member of the Christian Conservative Party. Wabba The I 14:32, June 2, 2012 (UTC)

You mean the Conservative Christian Party? —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 16:08, June 2, 2012 (UTC)

Welcome to the club :P You can add yourself to our member list. I can do it for you but then you'll have to wait to when I'm sober again :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 03:32, June 3, 2012 (UTC)

Oos?
Are you planning to re-run for Prime Minister again? The party seems to have good enough connections to win you back the job.  Happy65   Talk CNP   20:08, November 9, 2012 (UTC)
 * Did he lose it then? The glorious First Consul of Rome (talk) 22:15, November 9, 2012 (UTC)
 * I never run for governor. I run for a maximum score to get as much Christian morals and values represented as possible. If I happen to get elected PM, that's great :P Though, I'm also happy with a ministry I like (such as education or youth and family). --O u WTBsjrief-mich 09:39, November 10, 2012 (UTC)
 * Youth and family would be an ideal position for a Christian politician. Or Justice, of course. To get old-Testament on dem criminals. The glorious First Consul of Rome (talk) 09:57, November 10, 2012 (UTC)


 * ...  Happy65   Talk CNP LogoCNP.png 10:00, November 10, 2012 (UTC)
 * Hehehe, I think there is not enough draagvlak for a die-hard CCPL/RTP minister of Justice :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 10:05, November 10, 2012 (UTC)

Moving Left?
I've heard rumor of CCPL rating itself more left on the economic scale with the newer rightist parties. Is this true? and if so, will it also be adjusting to a more progressive stance? and what about environmental stance? --Quarantine Zone (talk) 02:41, November 28, 2012 (UTC)
 * CCPL has always been fairly center-left. But, in the political landscape of a few years ago, there were hardly any rightist parties, so CCPL grouped itself as center-right.
 * We are pro a social welfare system; it is our Christian duty. As is to be read in Marcus 10 (21-23): "And Jesus looked at him and loved him, and He told him: One thing you lack: go, sell all you have and give it to the poor and you will have a treasure in Heaven; and then return here, take up the cross and follow Me. But he became sad about that word and went away sad, as he possessed many goods. And while He looked 'round, Jesus said to His disciples: How hard will it be for those who possess riches, to enter the Kingdom of God!" And also Marcus 13 (41-44): "And when Jesus sat down opposite the treasury, He saw how the crowd threw money into the treasury; and many rich threw in much. And there came one poor widow, who threw in two small coins, which is a quadrant. And when He gathered His disciples, He told him: Assuredly, I tell you this poor widow threw in more than all those who threw something in the treasury. Because they all put in from there abundancy; but she from here poverty has put in all she had, her whole livelihood."
 * Of course, it should be a fair system. We can't take everything from the rich and evenly distribute it. A progressive income taxation should work just fine.
 * The Biblical concept of "stewardship" (we loan the earth from God) obliges us to protect the environment. If you loan a pen to somebody else, you expect to see it returned well. We loan the earth from God and we have to return it well someday when the Kingdom of God comes. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 10:09, November 28, 2012 (UTC)
 * Oos, you woulden't be interested in a social coalition for the elections? I agree with your beliefs on welfare and environmental protection a lot (though for different reasons) and would like if CCPL and Labour could work together to protect the common person's welfare. HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 14:17, November 28, 2012 (UTC)
 * We worked together in the past and of course we still can :) --O u WTBsjrief-mich 14:18, November 28, 2012 (UTC)
 * Great. With Uncle Oos at the head of Lovia (and with Labour's backing, of course) we can advance Lovia's welfare. Now what would you need for this coalition to work (if we go ahead)? HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 14:24, November 28, 2012 (UTC)
 * I'd rather wait on the election results to be honest. We're pretty much on the same line when it comes to social welfare :) --O u WTBsjrief-mich 14:33, November 28, 2012 (UTC)
 * SLP would like to join too. :-) —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 00:43, November 29, 2012 (UTC)
 * I've always liked a CCPL-Labour coalition mainly because of the person behind the CCPL :D experienced and a senior.(:P) We are the last, remaining senior members and could do alot in a coalition government. And In my opinion Chrisitian politics always preaches center-left politics. Socialy: Equal Rights. Love thy neighbor. Let the last be first and the first be last. Jesus died on the cross to end the old jewish law traditions of sacrificing animals, gender inequality, and men not "lying with other men". All those rules gone, because of jesus and his sacrifice and with that it alowed for the followers of christ to live as they want knowing they would have a place in his heaven. Economically: Center/center-left. Universal health care, not to sure about the rest probally progressive taxation and some welfare state ideas and spending on green jobs and infrastructure, while keeping with the protestant idea of "thrift". But yeah this is a (in)formal coalition offer. Marcus/Michael Villanova 02:27, November 29, 2012 (UTC)
 * Well not completely the same on social issues. I don't think it should be illegal to work on Sundays and I would want a Bismarck healthcare model, and I may form my own party now that I have another member. Although, I would lose my current one seat in congress, and I find conservative rightist views to fit Christianity more so. If the coalition forms, I'm leaving for sure.--Quarantine Zone (talk) 03:16, November 29, 2012 (UTC)
 * I would like to do a coalition of Labour, SLP, CCPL, a good social colition to help people out. Granero (talk) 03:12, November 29, 2012 (UTC)
 * @Marcus: Well he didn't really end Jewish law. He literally said he wanted to add to the law :)
 * @QZ: Well, I would like to hear why you think rightist views fit Christianity more. Perhaps you could convince me of your ideas :) --O u WTBsjrief-mich 10:09, November 29, 2012 (UTC)
 * The only way that I could understand that would be an atheist or marxist arguing that the purpose of Christianity in society was 'for the protection of the exploitation and the stupefaction of the working class' (Lenin quote :P). But QZ is a Christian, so I presume he wouldn't agree with that. :P --Semyon 12:42, November 29, 2012 (UTC)
 * Well, I suppose you could group progressive taxation under stealing, but if you do so, all taxation would be stealing. This would contradict to what Jesus said about paying tax: return to the emperor what is the emperor's and return to God what is God's. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 13:03, November 29, 2012 (UTC)
 * Personally being Christian myself, I think we both understand that the Bible is a very complex book and it is hard to lay out certain things it says in clear very defined ways. When you consider taxation for instance, personally I consider it a necessary evil that must be made to meet budgets and if you want to look at it from a moral point of view (Christian and otherwise), most would agree that the poor at least should not be burdened with the weight of tax hence the CNP policy of an exclusion from tax for the earnings of the poor (probably the first policy of it's kind in Lovia). When you consider welfare however I think that CCPL policy is similar to Labour policy as in, you both want to implement greater welfare, but then again so do the CNP, SLP and (I believe) PL so therefore CCPL is similar to all of the main parties policies, considering fine details on welfare have not really been laid out by anyone yet. However we can all agree that welfare in Lovia is pitiful at best and it is quite interesting that under governments where parties (CPL and Walden) that claimed to be for the people at the bottom we did not have the implementation of a proper system, the system we got was rather small and couldn't really help many Lovians at all. Personally I agree with your idea to wait until the elections are over, I'm glad that your experience shows itself once again. If you want to see how the CNP want to help the poor then you can read our previous policies and our new one when it comes out. And I state this now, our system will be more comprehensive that Labours and will help those truly in need out. Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 18:51, November 29, 2012 (UTC)
 * @Granero: There's already a CNP-SLP-GP-LP coalition. 77topaz (talk) 10:12, November 29, 2012 (UTC)
 * So? —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 11:59, November 29, 2012 (UTC)
 * I don't think if SLP left it would hurt the libertrian coalition too much.
 * It's not really just a Libertarian Coalition any more and besides I think all this deal making Labour is trying to do is frankly going to have negative results. The members of Labour have proved again that they want to section off society and deepen rifts that older governments created, which the current coalition that I am part of along with CCPL managed to avoid by having a policy of inclusion within government. Under this government which is based in a rightist-centrist coalition we haven't had people going to extremes because they have been excluded from having their voice heard. I fear that if Labour get the reigns of government again firmly within their grasp all we can expect is for their prejudices to damage the stability we have created. Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 18:28, November 29, 2012 (UTC)
 * Your accusation are exactly the opposite of what we want to do. We hope to help out all sectors of society and eliminate whatever nonexistant rifts there may be. And so you know, both SLP and CCPL have shown interest in this, so if we do win a plurality in the elections we plan to share power with both those parties plus anyone else interested in working together to better Lovia. So please don't go on baseless rants before seeing how things really are. HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 18:39, November 29, 2012 (UTC)
 * Raising concerns about past experiences is hardly a rant. And I hardly feel from the performance of the last year that you truly do want to eliminate these rifts which are created uniquely by your party by and large, again I cite the Occupy movement and the clear aim of your party which is normally stated to protect the middle class and in many cases it feels a lot like the middle class only. If you are so committed to closing these tears then I hope you would support the idea that we devolve powers further, allowing locals to rule themselves without having things forced upon them that they don't want simply because at least 51% of Lovia didn't share their ideas. Of all parties keen to unite the people, it has been PL, SLP, CNP and the CCPL and now the GP that have been behind the idea of social unity, I think that your party supporting the Occupy movement as well as constantly banging on about the rich and the corporations has hardly been the flagship party for social unity. And I think your statement saying that "plus anyone else interested in working together to better Lovia" is very subjective, and I think it would be quite silly to claim that any major party does not want a better Lovia, so in truth we are again headed towards (I hope) another nicely balanced coalition government and thank god for it. And again, this is not a rant, and nor is it baseless, I am simply urging people to be wary of forming such rigid coalitions, as you seem to be hoping for, with your party when considering your parties history it would be better to simply agree to a government for unity once more, who takes what responsibilities are to be debated however I believe the policy of inclusion for all major parties no matter what should be adopted by all and we should not be saying things that you say which suggest that if you get enough seats, everyone else can expect to be marginalised or at best given a token seat in the ministries. Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 19:33, November 29, 2012 (UTC)
 * If you want a governemnt of unity, why didn't you say so before. Instead of attacking those opposed to you (and creating potential rifts), you should look over past issues, turn the page and work for a solution. I am always open to good ideas, and so should you. HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 19:43, November 29, 2012 (UTC)
 * I did say so, maybe not as clearly as you would have liked, besides I've been saying it all along. I hardly attacked you, I pointed out that it was worrying to me that certain people seem to be seriously considering a rigid coalition to form the government after the elections. Instead of assuring everyone that there was a policy of inclusion, you seemed to be suggesting that you were aiming to form a government composed of just Labour, CCPL and the SLP. And do not try to patronise me by saying that I should "turn the page and work for a solution", you should know better to be honest. And once again being patronising "I am always open to good ideas, and so should you", firstly the CNP has brought forwards new ideas through out the past year and has worked with other parties to support other ideas that were also beneficial to Lovia, what this seems to be is you saying that I should be open to your good ideas or at least what you judge to be a good idea. Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 19:53, November 29, 2012 (UTC)
 * If you bothered to read what I said, "we plan to share power with both those parties plus anyone else interested in working together to better Lovia" if we are elected. There is no rigid coalition, not like the rightist-libertarian one you are a part of. And why do you continue attacking? So please, carry on and create the rift you talked about or just stop with the American political belligerence. I would rather not have to argue with you but it should go both ways. HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 20:18, November 29, 2012 (UTC)
 * I did read what you wrote and highlighted the bit that concerned me and I'm sure other people (And on a side note I've never liked the term power being used to describe being in servitude to the people, not a point I'm raising just commenting). I never said there was a coalition but that some people seemed to be considering one and the Libertarian Coalition is not rigid, it is an association and the parties within aim cooperate largely but are not asked to do anything really compared to the idea of a coalition that you seemed to be support, which seemed to be for creating a government of only Labour, CCPL and the SLP. A rather undemocratic idea in my opinion which is exactly why I raised concern. And what is this?: "And why do you continue attacking? So please, carry on and create the rift you talked about or just stop with the American political belligerence" again, if you consider me raising concern attacking then it would be worrying what you would consider an attack to be, but more importantly 'American political belligerence?' since when is supporting the idea of inclusion for all major parties in government to ensure that people have their views represented and raising concern when this is threatened belligerence? (and for another matter, how is it American?!) currently it is a debate by the way, an argument looks different, and rarely has logic within any view that is engaged in it and largely comprises of insults rather than actual points. Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 20:36, November 29, 2012 (UTC)
 * You just can't seem to drop it, can you. As I said before, you needn't be concerned since the colaition I hop to achieve with SLP and CCPL will not be binding and is meant to be flexible. I hope that this could serve as a way to bridge the gap between rightists and the left, and not turn it into a diving point (though you seemed to have argued on that misinterpretation). HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 20:50, November 29, 2012 (UTC)

LINE RESET


 * I will most definitely not drop my completely valid concerns for the representation of the Lovian peoples opinions. And so you do hope to get a coalition with the SLP and CCPL, but what for? that is what I ask. I seriously doubt it, you have been one of the greatest voices against rightists in general, but if it is then I wish it luck hopefully it'll follow in the footsteps of the Libertarian Coalition which has united left leaning and right leaning peoples under the banner of the preservation of freedom for the individual and also the preservation of the rights and responsibilities of the individual and I do hope that the SLP will not leave it, unofficial as it may be, and will continue to act as a party working within it to bring the unity we need in Lovia to the people. The only reason your proposal turned into a dividing point was because you did not ever speak about preserving the policy of inclusion, instead you seemed to be suggesting (notice I say seemed) that the coalition would be one to secure the future government for your own interests. All I am saying is that I feel that, on the grounds of past events, that people should not try and set anything in stone for the congress of the coming year and should aim to continue the stability we have enjoyed for the past year. Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 21:04, November 29, 2012 (UTC)
 * Finally you're headed in a good direction. Kunarian, you should not feel threatened by this coalition, it is nothing personal and aginast you. Any there is NOTHING set in stone yet. The interested parties have only expressed their interest in having one, and Oos want to wait until January. HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 21:19, November 29, 2012 (UTC)
 * I was heading in a good direction from the beginning. I do not feel threatened, I feel worried for Lovias democracy and I do know that it's nothing personal. The 'yet' is the part that bugs me. I know and I'm glad that Oos is not going to commit himself. Anyways I think we've debated this enough for people to get a good idea of both sides of the argument. :L Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 21:42, November 29, 2012 (UTC)
 * Well, let me rephrase that: don'f feel threatened by the "yet", it's just a word that means maybe or maybe not. And don't start going on about threats to Lovia's democracy. The only parties to be worried about in that sense are the IGP and the far right. All other parties from CNP leftward to CPL are all very pro-democracy and upholding those rights. HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 21:48, November 29, 2012 (UTC)
 * I'd agree with that rephrase. I never said Lovian democracy was threatened but that I was worried for it, I want every major party to have a place in the Ministries and every minor party to have a way of having their voice heard in congress and a one sided coalition established by the left, right or centre would muffle the voices of the parties left out. I would hope you'd consider the far left to be a threat too? And I'm glad you believe that. Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 22:01, November 29, 2012 (UTC)
 * Both the far-right and far left are pretty much dead. And now it's the centrists who hold the balance of power. HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 22:05, November 29, 2012 (UTC)
 * And may I be the first to say thank the lord for that. Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 22:09, November 29, 2012 (UTC)
 * I'm far right, just not extremist, and I see that having lower taxes for the poor and welfare would be encouraging laziness and poor work ethics. Also, I find it unfair that some people can have less education, a lower position, and work less hours, yet get a similar pay to someone who works more, went to more school, and has a higher position. Socialism on small scale is great, because in small scale everyone can work (e.g. early New Testament), but you have to realize that in that situation, everybody worked, and there was no high education, seeing as you support progressive taxes, welfare, and have a few other differing views I think RMF may become MCCP permanently, after consulting my Vice-Chairman. --Quarantine Zone (talk) 23:40, November 29, 2012 (UTC)
 * Lowering taxes doesn't encourage laziness, it isn't giving people free stuff, it is simply letting them keep what they do earn. However you can argue that welfare makes people lazy or in many cases trapped. Also work ethic is instilled in education I feel and I believe a rigorous practical system is the best way forwards for Lovia. Btw QZ don't be too quick to jump boat, look to where you have similarities not differences with CCPL policy. Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 00:02, November 30, 2012 (UTC)
 * I think flat taxes would work the best. Our similarities are in social issues to some degree, and Christian views, but our social views and some interpretations are different. I also don't want to be in coalition with centrist, progressive, or leftist parties. --Quarantine Zone (talk) 00:08, November 30, 2012 (UTC)
 * 'Some people can have less education, a lower position, and work less hours, yet get a similar pay to someone who works more, went to more school, and has a higher position.' This is simply not true, at least not in any First World democratic country that I've heard of, and it's certainly not an aim of CCPL. I also don't accept that socialism worked in New Testament times but not today, because there were still plenty of highly skilled jobs that required an education. And even if society is so different nowadays, I don't see a reason to throw Christian principles out of the window - after all, Christ said 'the poor will always be with you.' I apologize if this seems harsh, and despite what you may think I'm not a socialist, but I'm sceptical that any ideology that screws over the poor can be described as Christian. --Semyon 08:53, November 30, 2012 (UTC)
 * Let me stress that if you are unemployed, it will not be easy to get money from the state. CCPL wants a system in which applying is mandatory and schooling to another field of work if your own is "full" is financed by the state (unless you haven't had education before, but anyway, CCPL also supports free education until the age of 25, so why wouldn't you do that?). --O u WTBsjrief-mich 09:53, November 30, 2012 (UTC)
 * I agree with everything you say, Oos, but we should also find ways to get people to minimize their time on welfare and get to work soon. We could implement a sort of work retraining program for those who have been laid off or add incentives for companies to hire immigrants and disabled persons. And to those in need of quick work we could always hire unemployed persons into construction and public works, especially if those fancy state plans are to be implemented. HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 14:11, November 30, 2012 (UTC)
 * I'm pro a retraining program, but contra incentives (for the same reason we are contra women's quota). --O u WTBsjrief-mich 14:22, November 30, 2012 (UTC)
 * No, not like quotas, but maybe a sort of "trial run". In the recessionary period, people like immigrants, youth, disabled are more at a disadvantage at finding work, but we could maybe try an apprentice program and companies can decide after the period if they want to hire the person or not. I wouldn't want to force people to hire anyone, but this is the best compromise (and in Sweden a similar plan went very successfully). HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 14:31, November 30, 2012 (UTC)
 * I don't like the social side-effects of it. In Sweden, this (among other things) has lead to the native population feeling threatened and to the election of the extreme-rightists in parlement. Also, disabled will get other fundings in our program. I'm more concerned about the elderly who lost their job. If you're older, it's more difficult to get a job. Especially once you hit 50. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 09:10, December 1, 2012 (UTC)
 * @all - I'm open to working with the CCPL and SLP (forma) or (informal) coalition
 * @Kunarian- I don't think i've ever defranchized anyone. At the most the greedy vulture rich. Whereas you cailmed some poor were "lazy" i always thought whenever i've heard people on the right say this I laugh. Those on benefits are mostly mentally retarded or disabled (those on it 99% of the time, i mean) and those on short term unemployment. I concede there are a group of people in the work 0.0000000001 in total that literally sit home and sit in there filth and accept benefits and see it as a gift. While about 90% of those on unemployment (real life example of this) whove been on welfare, don't like it.  The Poor don't choose to be poor, and for the most part is not their fault.  We never chose to be unemployed and yet we were, the boss (like most) increased his salary over 100% yet made his workers, my father, work longer for less pay. The time you are on it is total shit, and know those on it are so shocked yet we pushed hard and worked and pulled together and found a nice paying job. I honestly don't blame those who are so shocked by it though and maybe take longer. My family is strong yet most aren't and the sudden realization of security and hope for a better future hurts in a indescriable way in which you can't show emotion because it yeilds to those around you that the siutaion has changed and can lead to more trouble aronud you. So again i never blame those who take 3,4,5 months to get back on there feet. I mean away from the personal element do I think the ammount given each month needs to be less, sure maybe 5-7.5% less but still at about 6 months. It makes sense it helps those who at a time of despair have lost everything, don't make them lose there home, family, and sense of mind too. Marcus/Michael Villanova 22:15, November 30, 2012 (UTC)
 * The 'greedy vulture rich' and any extension of that to any successful people who have money. And you are mad! point out where I stated that I felt that some poor were lazy? it's disgusting that you make up this nonsense every time we have a debate. And I think you'll find that most people on benefits are not actually the mentally retarded or poor, and where you got that statistic from I'll never know! No, you do not understand, people sit at home on benefits for two reasons: 1. because they like getting something for nothing and so as long as they can buy their beer and pay for other treats they'll live their life like that quite happily 2. because it's simply easier to sit on benefits and make money than go into the work place. You don't recognise these problems however and glaze them over.  As for your underlining and comments on the poor, there are a lot more factors as to why the poor are poor and you aren't suggesting a way to solve the problem, instead you suggest we throw money at the problem until it fixes itself, which will be never . And then you go onto once again attacking anyone above you, you've practically said that anybody who is high up in a company is greedy and self centred and I'm pretty sure no amount of debate will change your mind on that fallacy. And then this "hurts in a indescribable way in which you can't show emotion because it yeilds to those around you that the siutaion has changed and can lead to more trouble around you" Marcus I could spend the entire day showing you how you are so wrong but frankly I'd prefer if we didn't make this personal and that you kept your mouth on this matter tightly shut because I've been through a lot more than you would seem to think, but of course in your opinion because I'm on the right I must live in a posh house and be fed with a silver spoon. And then "So again i never blame those who take 3,4,5 months to get back on there feet" neither do I, you seem to be arguing with someone else Marcus instead of me, your rhetoric has simply gone onto arguing with someone who talks about 'lazy people on benefits' come back to the topic please. Yes it makes sense but we were never arguing whether we should give welfare but how we should, so read what I write next time please and then we can have a proper debate. Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 11:49, December 1, 2012 (UTC)

To intervene: both of you aren't fully right. Indeed, there are many disabled people in social security. Of course, there are short-term unemplyed and people who have no choice (come from poor family, no money for education, no work available). Yes, there are lots of lazy bastards in there too. However - I'm not fully familiar with the US payments - in the Netherlands, payments are so little, that if you want a house to live, you can't afford drinking beer all the time. And, if you choose to go live with your parents, your payments will be stopped. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 11:54, December 1, 2012 (UTC)
 * US payments are low I believe but my opinion is coming from the UK, a place where we have over the top welfare, where a ton of people can happily live off of it to the tune of (since the cap) £26,000, and things are made even more madning in the UK when they give an extra £100 to people who have drinking problems, alarm bells should be ringing then. And when the average common workers pay is around £12,000, £26,000 is a lot of money. From my experience I know what it's like to live in a society where we throw money at the poor and they still remain poor and I do not want Lovia going there as Marcus seems to be suggesting we do. Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 12:05, December 1, 2012 (UTC)
 * Hahaha, UK's a bit throwing with money there :P Well, I know the US model is relatively cruel, so I can understand Horton wants it a bit better. Anyway, in coalition talks, all of us will have to give up somethings to get a majority. Read about CCPL's plans here: it's relatively minimal as well. In Sweden, they have a model in which you only get payments if you are a member of the unemployment fund (no member, no payments :P) --O u WTBsjrief-mich 12:20, December 1, 2012 (UTC)

CCPL split and name change
To make it clear, colons are to be abolished, SLP is interested in working with all parties, and I myself (not Krosby or SLP) think that CCPL should be divided into a rightist (QZ) and leftist/centrist (Oos) party. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 01:14, November 30, 2012 (UTC)
 * @colons: They are not, I believe the majority supports colons.
 * @CCPL split: probably. We need some reorganization in that case (as in cleaning up members such as Hannis). --O u WTBsjrief-mich 09:53, November 30, 2012 (UTC)

Well, I support colons only when they actually are needed, such as making a reply to a buried comment, and no more than 3 or 4 should be allowed. Anyway, perhaps we should have a name change in both of the new parties? —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 11:58, November 30, 2012 (UTC)
 * CCPL ain't gonna change its name. We are Conservative, we are Christian, we are a Party, and we are of Lovia :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 12:41, November 30, 2012 (UTC)
 * Well, you are also centrist/leftist. That's why I want a name change, since there will now be a rightist Christian party. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 21:50, November 30, 2012 (UTC)
 * In Lovia, name changes are way too common. I'm not going to change a party's name every two years. In the Netherlands, we have parties like the Labour Party (actually, they want to cut jobs), the Christian Democrats (not anywhere near Christian), the Political Reformed Party (members may also be Catholic), etc. etc. Sometimes names are there for historic reasons. Everybody knows CCPL, and by now, everybody knows we are center-leftist. There really is no reason to change the name (which will also be a hell of a job in updating articles). --O u WTBsjrief-mich 09:14, December 1, 2012 (UTC)

Leaving the Party (RMF)
After consulting the decision with Nathan, RMF has decided to leave the CCPL and reform the MCCP. Goodbye, hopefully we can work together in others ways in the future --Quarantine Zone (talk) 01:12, November 30, 2012 (UTC)

Well, please don't call the party the MCCP. I'd say "Christian Democratic Party" or "Christian People's Party" would be good. Make it a broad Christian right party without "Merito" in the name, please. It could be in the policy, but it'll be unappealing to other users with "Meritocratic" in the name. You won't have to change your personal policy, just the name and possibly the official platform of the party as a whole. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 01:14, November 30, 2012 (UTC)


 * Nathan will be coming up with the name, it won't have meritocratic in it. --Quarantine Zone (talk) 03:13, November 30, 2012 (UTC)

Or you could take up either one of my recommendations. ;) —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 03:15, November 30, 2012 (UTC)

Okay, you may keep your current seat in Congress. I wish you luck and I hope you will receive a lot of seats after the elections :) --O u WTBsjrief-mich 09:54, November 30, 2012 (UTC)


 * Thanks :) --Quarantine Zone (talk) 23:39, November 30, 2012 (UTC)