Forum:The Pub

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nl:Forum:De kroegro:RoWikicity:Cafenea Welcome to The Pub! This is the general meeting place in Lovia. Inhabitants can make public announcements, have a friendly chat with some copatriots, or discuss crucial issues in Lovian politics or business. Speeches can also be made at Speakers' Corner. All archives of The Pub can be found here.

What's up?
The entire elections the newspapers are very active. Now they're over, there ain't no more news to tell anymore? A new PM, a new Government, major discussions on Gun Laws, new editors. And the media remains silent. Is the writing staff on strike or something? Ygo &quot;the Brigade&quot; Donia (Lovian PM) 18:04, January 31, 2011 (UTC)
 * Nothing interesting to write about. :P New government. Pffft! --Semyon 18:21, January 31, 2011 (UTC)
 * Nothing interesting? These are exciting times for Lovia that should be documented. Even the fact feed does not show any more facts. :::Maybe print media is dying in Lovia, and TV or radio might take its place. HORTON11  18:50, January 31, 2011 (UTC)
 * Frankly it isn't newsworthy, they're not well known yet and nothing major has occured, the gun convo has already been reported on and done. Marcus Villanova Music is Life.Lean Forward.PCP 21:23, January 31, 2011 (UTC)
 * I just don't have the time for Lovia at the moment. It seems unimportant to me right now. Edward Hannis  [[File:CogHammer.gif]] 02:10, February 1, 2011 (UTC)
 * Time is the problem of a lot of people. Other occupations (like studying) are given precedence. 06:29, February 1, 2011 (UTC)

LSCA Major Soccer League 2011 12 Teams
These are the final 12 best teams to play in the 2011 season. The second division will include six teams and will be announced next month. Here are the 12 teams: So that's that! Marcus Villanova Music is Life.Lean Forward.PCP 17:03, February 2, 2011 (UTC)

3 things: LTV already airs some mathches but We'd love all games to be watched. Sure! Marcus Villanova Music is Life.Lean Forward.PCP 17:04, February 2, 2011 (UTC)
 * 1) There's only 8 teams
 * 2) Can FC Caltrava participate
 * 3) Could ATV broadcast the matches
 * 4) HORTON11  16:59, February 2, 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks for adding my team. I was thinking, you might need some tournament sponsors, so maybe Edison Electric could be one of them. HORTON11  17:07, February 2, 2011 (UTC)
 * Guys, couldn't we cut down on the number of teams? Take FC Muntegu for example: it's not even Lovian. We've got too many pro teams for such a small nation, and most of them are not up to date or not even wikified. What about keeping ten teams, and no more than two per city? That would make it a whole lot livelier. We've got to get people involved in the game, and we can do that by making it attractive. Too many obscure teams is not attractive. 18:33, February 2, 2011 (UTC)
 * 10 seems pretty reasonable. Teams like Muntegu should not be participating, and not even one of their players is Lovian. HORTON11  18:55, February 2, 2011 (UTC)

Sure Agreed! You can delete the following pages: East Hills Kangaroos, FC Molenbeek, and FC Muntegu the others are fine. We'll work somthing out. Marcus Villanova Music is Life.Lean Forward.PCP 20:11, February 2, 2011 (UTC)
 * I deleted them as requested. And oh, go go rockets!  06:23, February 3, 2011 (UTC)
 * I'm with the Walker Cavaliers though  07:51, February 3, 2011 (UTC)

Dry Period
Wikination is very unactive latley, which i can understand Dimi and Yuri have work, which they annouced and my laptop was literally infected with 421 virsues =[ which kept me out of the game the past week. Just pointing this out but i'm quite disappointed with the slowness of the trial. I hope to see all soon. Marcus Villanova Music is Life.Lean Forward.PCP 20:08, February 27, 2011 (UTC)
 * I, too, am disappointed. The site has not been this unactive in months... However there is nothing I can do to make the trial procceed any faster. And what good is it propose new laws if there ain't nobody around to vote for them? Hopefully things will turn around for the better. But in all honesty, I can't really say I've been spending much time online lately. Not at all. Ygo &quot;the Brigade&quot; Donia (Lovian PM) 21:20, February 27, 2011 (UTC)
 * I've been really busy here in Brasil (note the use of the "s"), but hopefully next week I can be around more often. HORTON11  23:53, February 27, 2011 (UTC)

Oh I forgot there's a pardon for you too, Horton ust relax! =] Marcus Villanova Music is Life.Lean Forward.PCP 02:26, February 28, 2011 (UTC)
 * Well, February usually isn't the most active month :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 05:45, February 28, 2011 (UTC)
 * Contributing in a meaningful way takes time, a very valuable good to us all it seems. I'm confident editing will take off again once some of us have found their new rhythm or enter a holiday period. 06:31, February 28, 2011 (UTC)
 * :) --O u WTBsjrief-mich 15:50, February 28, 2011 (UTC)

Magnus
I am afraid that the user Magnus last night admitted at IRC that he is the person behind Drabo13. We blocked magnus for this reason on Llamada, what you do with this message is up to you, if you guys like evidence we have some but we do advise to send someone that talks dutch. Jillids 17:48, March 1, 2011 (UTC)
 * Well, an IRC discussion can't be evidence, because it's very easy to fake it. What we'd like more is a confession made by the user account of Magnus on a wiki. That's evidence. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 06:10, March 2, 2011 (UTC)
 * He also made a nazi account yester-yesterday on llamada. I have a mail from magnus saying he is DRabo 62.195.163.100 06:22, March 2, 2011 (UTC)
 * I think it is fair to say we can not act on ourselves considering the lack of 'strong evidence'. But I do believe this information should be passed on to the central wikia administration. Also, I'd like Pierius to clarify what this is all about. 06:31, March 2, 2011 (UTC)
 * First of all: yes, I have been on the IRC of Llamada. And yes, I did have a conversation with Jillis. However the content of this conversation – which is private – has absolutely nothing to do with what he claims: not once did any of us mention Drabo nor wikination. Of course, information can be easily forged, especially IRC conversations, as OWTB already pointed out. Whatever evidence any of these people may come up with is therefore already tainted. There has never been any confession whatsoever, especially not on any wiki (or wikia, for that matter). All claims made are based on sources outside of these wikis I have been a member of. If any of you want to pass on this information to the central wikia administration then by all means, do so. I couldn’t care less. Ygo &quot;the Brigade&quot; Donia (Lovian PM) 09:10, March 2, 2011 (UTC)
 * I'm glad you took this serious by making a statement and, as I expected, you denied any involvement. Truthfully or not is only for you to know. I join in your view on the mentioned possible evidence, which I feel should be handed over to the central wikia just for the record of it. 10:58, March 2, 2011 (UTC)
 * Reaction deleted @Jillids: Don't Feed The Trolls. Apoo banaan 15:16, March 2, 2011 (UTC)
 * Mevedev since you know dutch we can show you a screen print from pierlot. I am afraid we don't have more evidence and don't feel like go discuss with magnus so he has more attention. Jillids 17:52, March 2, 2011 (UTC)
 * I'm not even going to dignify this with a response. Ygo &quot;the Brigade&quot; Donia (Lovian PM) 18:22, March 2, 2011 (UTC)
 * One of two things the statements made by you all should prove my innocence when it came to the false accusation that I exchanged votes in some way. Second there really should be some proof, alot of people have accused him of this and nothing has came of it. Also I thought Pierlot was banned for being drabo. He was banned for a year. Marcus Villanova Music is Life.Lean Forward.PCP 20:38, March 2, 2011 (UTC)
 * No, Pierlot was banned for: Abusing multiple accounts; vandalism and other unproductive wiki drama. (as in the logs). When Pierlot was banned, Magnus had an open goal to say: He is Drabo! It's well-known for ages that Magnus and Pierlot aren't friends. Apoo banaan 10:17, March 3, 2011 (UTC)
 * I received the print screen and it looks authentic. But then again I can provide similar proof that makes Dimi say he is the queen of England. Bottom line: suspicion noted, no action possible. 06:41, March 3, 2011 (UTC)
 * You know that e-mails got 'headers' right? And that 'headers' contain IP-adresses. Bottom line: Suspicion confirmed, action possible. Apoo banaan 10:09, March 3, 2011 (UTC)
 * Under the condition that headers can't be tempered with, you are right. 15:03, March 3, 2011 (UTC)
 * Headers of e-mails? They can be falsified very easily :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 15:28, March 3, 2011 (UTC)
 * Then everything in this world is falsified, including you. So start deblocking everybody, since nothing can be proven. By the way: Authorities accept e-mail headers as evidence, so it would be strange if wikia would not. Apoo banaan 15:37, March 3, 2011 (UTC)
 * I've only blocked people because they vandalised a wiki (proof which can't be falsified) or because of revenge (and they are unblocked already). --O u WTBsjrief-mich 05:55, March 4, 2011 (UTC)


 * Can you post the email or somthing here? I wanna see it, I remember when i was falsly accused of somthing they posted somthing from IRC with half the convo deleted and then said at the bottom that I went to Gay Rights rally, which made no sense. So if you could in your consince post a uneditied version if you can, but I do people you didn't edit it. Marcus Villanova Music is Life.Lean Forward.PCP 20:22, March 3, 2011 (UTC)
 * Assuming that whatever it is they photoshopped as "evidence" is is written in Dutch (Llamada being a Dutch website) I doubt you'll understand. But please by all means: share it with the community! Ygo &quot;the Brigade&quot; Donia (Lovian PM) 23:25, March 3, 2011 (UTC)

Well, this leads to nowhere, so this is my last reaction here (I'm obvious feeding the trolls again). But you have to know that headers of email's cant be falisfied. Because hotmail gives every message a unique 'X-Message-Info' and a unique 'Message-ID'. And there is no way to falsify that, unless pierlot works at hotmail (but I don't think so... and even then it would be nearly impossible). I'm sure that if you request the email according to this ID the mail of magnus will pop-up. I'll keep contact with Wikia staff and people with common sense, and we'll see what happens. (By the way: You've done wel on en-wikipedia magnus :)   ) Apoo banaan 10:31, March 4, 2011 (UTC)
 * Well, to be honest, I just falsified a header to find out and it perfectly works :P OR perhaps you mean something else, but I don't clearly understand what you mean with headers of e-mails. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 11:41, March 4, 2011 (UTC)

I must say good gathering Apoo, I must say that is somthing it shows intent and a pattern for abusing people and accounts. Marcus Villanova Music is Life.Lean Forward.PCP 12:28, March 4, 2011 (UTC)
 * Well Marcus, all he has managed to gather is stuff that we already knew of. He did not come up with any new information. The Mrlob account for example has been blocked since 2007 and hasn't been used since. Then that block log clearly shows the last block was in early 2009. I never denied my past as a wikipedia vandal. However I fail to see the relevance in this case. It's old news, basically. Been there, done that. Lame, *sigh*... Ygo &quot;the Brigade&quot; Donia (Lovian PM) 13:28, March 4, 2011 (UTC)
 * @apoo "X-Message-Delivery: Vj0xLjE7dXM9MDtsPTA7YT0xO0Q9MTtTQ0w9MA==", do you mean that with header? It's very annoying that we don't have more evidence. I heard magnus him self saying that he is Drabo so it wasn't a hard desision to block him. Jillids 17:41, March 4, 2011 (UTC)

There's alot of small evidence that is building up but not enough, One other question would be why would he confess to all of the people at Llamada but not here, Only thing i can guess is that he loves us more Marcus Villanova Music is Life.Lean Forward.PCP 21:07, March 4, 2011 (UTC)
 * Maybe he din't get what he wanted on Llamada but does'nt want to lose his position here. But he probebly wants attention. Jillids 11:46, March 5, 2011 (UTC)

Well until more evidence pops up i'll believe it. Marcus Villanova Music is Life.Lean Forward.PCP 14:21, March 5, 2011 (UTC)

Supreme Court Judge
I had three men in mind who could replace Mr. Jefferson as our new Supreme Court Judge - Aesopos, Semyon and Bucu. I decided that of all these three excellent men, the most neutral politically speaking is probably Aesopos (Mr. Washington), and also the most expierenced.

I therefore advice all MOTC's to go and visit our Second Chamber a visit and vote either in favour or against this proposal.

With this, I must leave you. I am sad to inform y'all that due to unfortunate circumstances I found myself entangled in a case, a case which I lost and for which I will be severely punished. I have to accept that loss, and take it as a man. With these words, I bid you farewell!

Good luck, and take care, everyone! May Lovia florish without me as it did with me, Ygo &quot;the Brigade&quot; Donia (Lovian PM) 16:07, March 16, 2011 (UTC)

A sad day in history
This is a sad day in history. It is the day that democracy died, and all of our endeavours. Political views triumphed of justice, and party links defeated fairness and equality. In the Galahad v. The Brigade Trial, the flaws of our justice system were exposed, and the political alliances of our judge have been exposed. I implore to all Lovians to help prevnt this unjust and unwarranted sentence from being handed out, in the name of Justice, and of Democracy, in order to ensure peace, order and unity within our nation. HORTON11 16:48, March 16, 2011 (UTC)
 * Our justice system needs some redesigning, nonetheless your statement is itself colored. As court has confirmed, the Law has been violated. You can discuss the measure of the sentence, but you can't deny the nature of the Brigade: created to flatter ego's and kept alive despite a law to bring it down - kept alive with blind confidence. 06:36, March 17, 2011 (UTC)
 * Well, it's all over now. The Brigade is no more, and neither am I. At some point during the trial I actually thought I could get away with this, or at least, reduce the sentence to a minimum of two weeks, which would have been reasonable. Sweet dreams, I lost the @#!*%  thing! Well, to bad. It's all over now. But bear this in mind: I regret nothing. Ygo &quot;the Brigade&quot; Donia (Lovian PM) 09:25, March 17, 2011 (UTC
 * I did not give my speech in support of the Brigade. It is just that the sentence handed out is unjust and unreflective of the crime committed. The Brigade members heve broken a law, but they did not harm, steall, kill or otherwised do something towards a person to violate their rights. HORTON11  11:36, March 17, 2011 (UTC)
 * The sentence is a harsh one indeed, in every way draconic. The problem remains however that the decision can not legally be overruled. A settlement would have been thinkable, were it not that Donia himself is the Secretary of Justice - the key figure I would build the compromise around. I urge you all to leave as much drama behind as possible; we must look through our legislation and see if there is any chance at a reduction of those six months. 13:14, March 17, 2011 (UTC)
 * Well Mr Jefferson has violated Section 12.2 of Article 9, whrerby any sentence "must be in proportion to the violation". I don't know if that is of any use. HORTON11  14:00, March 17, 2011 (UTC)
 * Well, according to Jefferson a group of licensed hunters parading around my private property are a "threat to national security". Sounds pretty menacing, doesn't it? More then dangerous and severe enough, I'd say. At least in his mind. Ygo &quot;the Brigade&quot; Donia (Lovian PM) 14:56, March 17, 2011 (UTC)
 * It seems he is overstating things. The Brigade is not a threat to national security, and they did not plan to disrupt Lovia's integrity. It may not be menacing, but it is not entirely truthful. HORTON11  15:29, March 17, 2011 (UTC)

Yes, the brigade was not legal according to the law, but sentencing someone for six months for this? Guys.. Where has our common sense gone? --O u WTBsjrief-mich 18:26, March 17, 2011 (UTC)

Yes, any sane person would see that a 6 month sentence it unreasonable. And anyways, the Brigade did not disrupt Lovia's integrity as to merit such a sentence. HORTON11 18:39, March 17, 2011 (UTC)
 * I think we all got the point by now, just consider doing something about it. In other words: undertake action or accept the punishment. 06:36, March 18, 2011 (UTC)

Don't lay dow and die. Fight back. Marcus Villanova Music is Life.Lean Forward.PCP 21:42, March 18, 2011 (UTC)

Stop, it's the Police!

 * 1) The Federal Police is hiring:
 * 2) *FP Bureau Chief of Clymene, Kings, Oceana, Seven and Sylvania
 * 3) *FP Sergeant
 * 4) *FP Officers

--Cristian Latin 15:26, March 23, 2011 (UTC)
 * Applicants, please contact Cristian Latin 
 * Applicants, please contact Cristian Latin 
 * Just on time to arrest me. Ygo &quot;the Brigade&quot; Donia (Lovian PM) 15:40, March 23, 2011 (UTC)
 * PS: Thought you were gone. ;) Ygo &quot;the Brigade&quot; Donia (Lovian PM) 15:40, March 23, 2011 (UTC)
 * Sort of :P --Cristian Latin 15:41, March 23, 2011 (UTC)
 * Lol, I'll soon be gone for a much longer period of time (if not forever) but the Judge
 * doesn't seem to be in a hurry when it comes to carrying out the verdict. Ygo &quot;the Brigade&quot; Donia (Lovian PM) 15:46, March 23, 2011 (UTC)
 * Yeah I know. But don't think you'll get blocked for such a long period. Cristian Latin 15:54, March 23, 2011 (UTC)
 * It sure seems that way. Nobody on here beliefs it to be reasonable but @#!*%  it, it's the law so it doesn't matter what the majority feels. Ygo &quot;the Brigade&quot; Donia (Lovian PM) 15:57, March 23, 2011 (UTC)
 * Well, if the majority is against it, then maybe we can amend the law? HORTON11  16:13, March 23, 2011 (UTC)
 * You could - but the trial still stands. While the verdict is not in any proportion to the "crime" committed, which is against the law, I do not know whether or not Jefferson could be punished for it or his decision overturned. Ygo &quot;the Brigade&quot; Donia (Lovian PM) 16:18, March 23, 2011 (UTC)
 * As he broke the law and went agains the constitution, he should be tried. HORTON11  16:24, March 23, 2011 (UTC)
 * Well then, you have reasonable grounds for doing so. Of course Jefferson must first be replaced by Washington for obvious reasons (Jefferson cannot lead his own trial and when he is the accused party). Ygo &quot;the Brigade&quot; Donia (Lovian PM) 16:29, March 23, 2011 (UTC)
 * Well, if we bing him to court now, someone will have to replace him for the duration of the trial. HORTON11  16:34, March 23, 2011 (UTC)
 * Sounds like a fine possibility. Washington comes to mind. Or maybe even our Federal Police Commissioner, Latin. Ygo &quot;the Brigade&quot; Donia (Lovian PM) 16:38, March 23, 2011 (UTC)
 * Washington would be the best choice, but he's not around too often. Latin is also a fine choice, but people may question his former links with the CCPL. HORTON11  16:41, March 23, 2011 (UTC)
 * People may question all the want but I say he's a fine candidate. Then there is also Semyon Eykidovich, completely a-political, low-profile and reliable. Ygo &quot;the Brigade&quot; Donia (Lovian PM) 16:45, March 23, 2011 (UTC)
 * Any one of them is fine. But if we amended the law, we could have 2 or 3 judges serving on the bench. HORTON11  16:49, March 23, 2011 (UTC)
 * Yes indeed, we definitely need a jury. Especially because none of us has got the education for being Judge. Cristian Latin 16:52, March 23, 2011 (UTC)
 * Maybe we should organize a vote, or put an advertising in one of the newspapers. Oh, silly me again, never really getting the pointe. Aesopos 17:55, March 23, 2011 (UTC)
 * Aesopos: do as you please, sounds like a plan! Ygo &quot;the Brigade&quot; Donia (Lovian PM) 17:56, March 23, 2011 (UTC)
 * We could also start a Judicial Refom campaign and introduce bills in congress, to make it official. HORTON11  17:59, March 23, 2011 (UTC)
 * Great! It is really necessary, so don't hesitate! Cristian Latin 18:02, March 23, 2011 (UTC)

Number of judges
I don't think that the law says that there can only be one Supreme Court Judge. It only mentions that a Supreme Court Judge leads the Supreme Court. However, as I just wrote, it does not explicitly say that there can only be one.

Well, anyone can become a Judge when a proposal of the Secretary has been approved by a normal majority in Congress.

I repeat: it is necessary to have more Judges in Lovia. It is all about neutrality. Eg. Abrahams and I cannot start our cases because Jefferson himself is involved (up to a certain level). Arthur Jefferson being an admin, a Judge (not theoretically nor legally, but practically he is above the law - if arrested by an admin (he is an admin himself), he can be tried "correctly according to Constitution" by himself because he is the only Judge around) and a Member of the Congress. Something has to happen.

So please, Lovian MOTCs, the least you could do is voting for Lars Washington in the Second Chamber. For the sake of Justice. Cristian Latin 18:26, March 23, 2011 (UTC)
 * I am Ygo August Donia and I approve this message. Ygo &quot;the Brigade&quot; Donia (Lovian PM) 18:30, March 23, 2011 (UTC)
 * I too support this. HORTON11  18:32, March 23, 2011 (UTC)
 * "1.The Supreme Court is an independent institution and the nation's only and supreme judicial organ, led by a Supreme Court Judge." Cristian Latin 18:33, March 23, 2011 (UTC)

It even says on Supreme Court. "A second SC Judge will be appointed in the near future". It's clear now. Cristian Latin 18:46, March 23, 2011 (UTC)
 * Then two it is. Jefferson has just been removed from Office. Being both the Prime Minister and the Secretary of Justice, I have the authority to do so. He is hereby permanently dismissed. Ygo &quot;the Brigade&quot; Donia (Lovian PM) 18:53, March 23, 2011 (UTC)

Yes but it would have to be a set number maybe 3? They can't be in congress or in a political party(just be secretly in it ). And if they wangted an appeal they would go to the head lead judge of the three and have a new trial. And to not toot my own horn but i would love a life in law.


 * The thing is you are too politically associated (with the PCP) and you might not be too impartial. I think you'd have a better chance at becoming a judge if you quit congress and the PCP and remained outsde of politics. HORTON11  01:17, March 24, 2011 (UTC)

Limit to judges (read the *** Consitution)
The Constitution does pose a limit:  The Supreme Court Judge must maintain his or her duty until another is appointed and confirmed; only then is his or her service terminated.

Singular you see, it speaks about one judge which stops when he/she is replaced - and only then. This actions also requires a Congressional majority as I pointed out to our PM on several other pages. Please read the Constitution before talking. 07:26, March 24, 2011 (UTC)
 * I got my information for the page on Judges, actually. Someone was kind enough (or silly enough) to show me. It read that the Secretary of Justice or the Prime Minister of Lovia has the right to dismiss a Judge. So I exersised that right and did what I believed to be just. Ygo &quot;the Brigade&quot; Donia (Lovian PM) 09:11, March 24, 2011 (UTC)
 * So now we don't check the Constitution anymore? It is true the Sec. of Justice and the PM together decide upon this matter, but only with Congressional majority. The page was correct but incomplete. I can understand why you made the mistake but it is a mistake. If you want to replace Jefferson, please file a request in Congress. Until such a proposal is approved he remains our Supreme Court Judge. 15:55, March 24, 2011 (UTC)
 * I have already filed such a request in Congress - it is currently in the Second Chamber and being voted upon by the Members of Congress. In it is clearly mentioned I am to replace Jefferson and appoint Washington in his place. You know that, and you've seen it too. In fact, you've even voted on the proposal (against it, no less ). If it passes with a majority of 50% (which I suspect it will) then Jefferson will be replaced. I agree with you that until then, he remains the Supreme Court Judge. I'll have to agree, as I now know I have no other choice. Ygo &quot;the Brigade&quot; Donia (Lovian PM) 18:32, March 24, 2011 (UTC)

Yes, Ygo was wrong. And yes 'we' don't read the Constitution anymore (it isn't supreme, what did you say, Yuri? & too many people locked up without a trial... oh that was what you meant, right?) and yes there can be more Judges: " A Supreme Court Judge leads Supreme Court. Not The ." It implies that there can be more. Actually it is completely retarded to maintain this situation in which only one person has a monopoly on jurisdiction. Especially because there are issues in which AJ himself is being involved. Cristian Latin 20:06, March 24, 2011 (UTC)


 * @Cristian- We should propose a motion in congress to increase the number of judges. Then it will be possible to have new/other judges without issues. HORTON11  20:14, March 24, 2011 (UTC)
 * You could do so, for an explicit description in law, however I don't think there really is an issue (because there can be more judges ) and besides it is not very likely that we will find a +66% majority in these times of inactivity... Cristian Latin 20:25, March 24, 2011 (UTC)
 * It easy. If only 3 people vote and two say pro, that's 66%. And anyways, many Lovians support reform. HORTON11  20:41, March 24, 2011 (UTC)
 * Horton, I wish it were that easy. When you want to amend the constitution, 66% of the entire congress is needed to get something trough. Not 66% of the voters. And as Mr. Latin already pointed out, there is no need for it as the Law does not state there can be but one Supreme Court Judge. Ygo &quot;the Brigade&quot; Donia (Lovian PM) 20:48, March 24, 2011 (UTC)
 * @Latin: it is your lack of knowledge on judicial matters that causes such a mixed-up view. If I had the time for it I'd always explain every word I say, not that anyone would read it. I explained the contradiction you think to see elsewhere. 18:00, March 25, 2011 (UTC)

Letter of protest
Bucurestean and Donia have been blocked by Jefferson for respectively two weeks and six months. All I can say is: please stay calm. I know it is lame but I can't think of a better advice. Also, especially Donia's punishment is according to many (including me) draconic. Out of solidarity I suggest those who want it sign this letter of protest:

''I do not agree with the heavy punishment issued upon Donia for his involvement in the Brigade. I support a reduction of the term to at most two weeks. If no consequence is given to massive support to this letter of protest, I am willing to contribute to other non-aggressive actions like the abstinence from editing for a while.''


 * 11:26, March 27, 2011 (UTC)
 * HORTON11 11:48, March 27, 2011 (UTC)
 * (Ooooo just like a crazy witch hunt) Marcus Villanova Music is Life.Lean Forward 12:16, March 27, 2011 (UTC)
 * --O u WTBsjrief-mich 06:35, March 29, 2011 (UTC)
 * --Semyon 15:48, March 30, 2011 (UTC)

You make me smile Nobody has been blocked,this is all a joke. Aesopos 11:59, March 27, 2011 (UTC)
 * The logbook disagrees with you. 06:53, March 28, 2011 (UTC)
 * But another moderator can change that right?Marcus Villanova Music is Life.Lean Forward 10:38, March 28, 2011 (UTC)
 * If you're hinting towards me I'd like to say I'm not interested in sparking of a blocking war. How much I may oppose the block, it would be plain wrong to undo it on my own. That is what the letter is for: to convince other moderators to reconsider. 10:46, March 28, 2011 (UTC)

Well hopefully jefferson will reconsider we need Ygo back for some insane comments Marcus Villanova Music is Life.Lean Forward 11:23, March 28, 2011 (UTC)
 * Although the sentence is rather severe, we should respect our country's independent judicial. Politicians interfering with how the court sentences breaches of the law seems wrong to me. A bit of civil action, on the other hand, sure, why not. 13:46, March 28, 2011 (UTC)
 * Two things:
 * 1. It seems that the judicial is not wholly independent, as Mr Jefferson has unofficial links to the LAP party
 * 2. Politicians (and people in general) must have the right to change judicial decisions if they are unjustified and illegal. HORTON11
 * Just one word: Justice . Now I'm out of here, mission accomplished. Apoo banaan 22:42, March 28, 2011 (UTC)
 * Well, the problem with the separation of powers. The powers should still be able to check each other and in Lovia this is currently not the case with the judicial power. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 06:35, March 29, 2011 (UTC)
 * I find it suspicious that six months was exactly the time AE and Dimi wanted to block Pierius for his sockpuppetry. A controversial thing to say, I know, but there you go. (Random note: the Europhiles among you will be pleased to hear that on the UK census yesterday I described my national identity as 'European' ) --Semyon 15:48, March 30, 2011 (UTC)
 * It would only be controversial if you implied something by it, but I assume it was just 'pointing out a fact'. About the census: very happy indeed, considering the UK is traditionally quite eurosceptic. Let us know the results if you have them.  06:07, March 31, 2011 (UTC)
 * Well, I'm not a great fan of the EU itself (especially when it seems unique national culture is being submerged) but on the other hand I realised I share quite a lot in common with my friends across the Channel. (The results, btw, may not be out for a long time) --Semyon 15:27, March 31, 2011 (UTC)
 * Well, I'm not a great fan of the EU itself (especially when it seems unique national culture is being submerged) but on the other hand I realised I share quite a lot in common with my friends across the Channel. (The results, btw, may not be out for a long time) --Semyon 15:27, March 31, 2011 (UTC)

Dead Air
Is this wikia dead? Seriously? should we start a new wikia (I had one planned) or should we start a new wiki like the original model set up by Dimi, make a new wiki about a city in a real country, with more shop orintated with a dose of politics passing a budget and making laws and building parks. A small eight member city council, with a Mayor and Vice Mayor. Just wondering. Marcus/Michael Villanova 22:32, April 22, 2011 (UTC)
 * We could also make one like a city-state, somewhat like Monaco or Singapore. HORTON11  02:10, April 23, 2011 (UTC)
 * Actually this results in less activity. One of the reasons that many wikis eventually die is that people think that a new concept will attract more people and will result in more activity. Unfortunately, new wikis result in people being spread all over, so less people per wiki, so less activity. And a wiki with only a few active members is more likely to die out than a wiki with more active members. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 05:21, April 23, 2011 (UTC)

Fine but it seems like lovely lovia is very unlovely at the moment. I hope it gets re-active. Marcus/Michael Villanova 13:49, April 23, 2011 (UTC)


 * If we had a big-enough event or scandal, we could get more people to be active. HORTON11  15:14, April 23, 2011 (UTC)


 * :::What if a revolution takes place? A young idealistic leader takes charge and eliminates the former elite, replaces the entire government, imprisons the despots that have ruled the nation for ages. Crushes the opposition entirely. Fakking Held 18:18, April 23, 2011 (UTC)

no i love monarchies expensive royal weddings, will anyone be attending the only in britian. also welcome to lovia. Marcus/Michael Villanova 21:49, April 23, 2011 (UTC)

I like Kakkings Helds idea, seeing as we have no Military and a weak police, who would stop them? I'd really like for elections to be held. -Sunkist- 01:18, April 24, 2011 (UTC)


 * Well, there is the White Sands Casino Resort robbery which recently took place. That's a pretty major occurance. HORTON11  02:59, April 24, 2011 (UTC)


 * ::I honestly doubt anyone will organize new elections because of some casino getting robbed. Not major enough. Fakking Held 07:25, April 24, 2011 (UTC)

I see you really studied up on Lovia's practices. But it's fine if look back further many unactive yeaars we've just didn't do anything major. It's fine. Marcus/Michael Villanova 17:15, April 24, 2011 (UTC)

I hereby declare myself, Carlos Maria Lily Rosebud as the dictator of Lovia

No it has to be democratic, ha, kinda reminds me of drabo. Marcus/Michael Villanova 20:18, April 24, 2011 (UTC)
 * Perhaps it is time to move on... a new generation may arrive, and perhaps only they could pull Wikination out of this lonely wiki. A RMACHEDES  02:06, April 25, 2011 (UTC)
 * I say we begin a new era- not wait for one. Even with are old Congress, some of them weren't even active with the Government, this needs to change. We have no Government currently, no one is passing the law- providing the budget. The King is off some where due to studying and I'm not sure if he'll be back soon until summer, Spring Elections should be taken RIGHT NOW at this very moment. I say we start some activity by this week and start elections, or sweep the entire Government off the sheet unless all of the Congress members sign in by Friday of April 29, and in the mean time we should begin the process of getting campaigning started. Its time we get a new face in Lovia politics. Zackatron 07:00, April 25, 2011 (UTC)
 * We also need to demand the release of our Prime Minister, which we should of planned this too, we don't have a line of command. Who is our leader, our elected leader?Zackatron 07:25, April 25, 2011 (UTC)

Guys, I'm familiar with situations like these. Six users, of which one is only a day old (no citizen!!), can bearly keep a wiki like this alive, especially when hardly any of them is doing anything. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 07:38, April 25, 2011 (UTC)

We may not be able to allow to sail, but we can try and scoop out the water as fast as we can to try and stay afloat. I'll try to get more active in the wiki, he's new and we need more new people. Zackatron 07:44, April 25, 2011 (UTC)

We do need to change the government. Out of all the congressmen, only me Marcus and Oos have bee nactive. HORTON11 13:47, April 25, 2011 (UTC)

Does anyone want to message dimi about this? Maybe it's time for a small congress with new elections, basically new elections with a Prime Minister and Vice Primer. Abolishment of the monarchy anyone? Marcus/Michael Villanova 15:25, April 25, 2011 (UTC)

I like monarchies, but Lovia's is too small and not very around. We have a new one or we could get rid of the current one. HORTON11 22:48, April 25, 2011 (UTC)

If some one could talk to him, that would be good. Zackatron 01:10, April 26, 2011 (UTC)

Alright, we should start getting the Police re-organized, seeing that lootering and riots would begin to happen, as funding would be shut down and laws woulden't be passed. We need to set a curfew, get a provisional government up and then try and get a elected government in. Zackatron 07:25, April 26, 2011 (UTC)


 * Lovia is in dire need for leadership. I can think of one man who could take charge, a strong, magnificant leader. However, this decent, God-fearing Christian has been imprisoned by the capitalist, atheist establishment. Exiled Leader 10:27, April 26, 2011 (UTC)

Celebrate (inter)National Solidarity

 * A most happy May Day to all of you! ^^ 08:20, May 1, 2011 (UTC)
 * Woot, happy May Day! Saddly, if I raise the red flag in my city I'll get harassed. Nathaniel Scribner 08:25, May 1, 2011 (UTC)
 * What city might that be?? In all major Belgian cities we have celebrations by unions and left-wing organizations. No freedom of expression and organization where you live? 08:26, May 1, 2011 (UTC)
 * No social democrats/socialists around my home, only my grandma all the way down in Kentucky has the closest ideology of mine, and shes form Paris. I live in New Albany, Indiana in which is a hot spot for Republicans and weak Democrats. Its all expression, unless you want to be called a pink-ol' commie, no organizations. Nathaniel Scribner 08:34, May 1, 2011 (UTC)
 * Sounds like one of these grand old Southern state. Boy do I love that Southern Mentality. The Master&#39;s Voice 08:36, May 1, 2011 (UTC)
 * If you like narrow-minded tight @#!*%  with absolutely no attention for nuance then the South is where to go...  08:38, May 1, 2011 (UTC)
 * I just wish I could live in a rual area, but very left..but sadly thats never going to happen in the US. Nathaniel Scribner 08:43, May 1, 2011 (UTC)
 * @Medvedev: That's one way to describe it. I would rather descibe them as hard-working, God-fearing people with a healthy sense of conservative viewpoints who hold on to their constitutional rights. The Charlton Heston's of today's declining society. The Master&#39;s Voice 08:45, May 1, 2011 (UTC)
 * Constitutional rights? The US Constitution was written by the most progressive people of that time. Atheists wrote the freakin' document! Where is this sense of modernity gone to nowadays? 08:50, May 1, 2011 (UTC)
 * I love God, I don't 'fear' him. More a sense of healthy greed. Nathaniel Scribner 08:52, May 1, 2011 (UTC)
 * You are right, Medvedev. The slave-owners who wrote the Constitution of the US where very progressive. The Master&#39;s Voice 08:53, May 1, 2011 (UTC)
 * They were the most progressive of their time, just like you can find a 'most leftist Nazi' too. I never claimed they were progressive enough for my taste. My point was that the US elected the most progressive people in office than, while nowadays they call them names like 'soviet' or 'nazi' in many parts of the country. Now ain't that backward? 08:59, May 1, 2011 (UTC)
 * Solidarity forever, solidarity forever, solidarity. Soon to be something that Indiana and Wisconsin won't see.Nathaniel Scribner 09:08, May 1, 2011 (UTC).thumb|300px|right
 * I wonder what those conservative republicans think about the socialist Tony Blair or their other socialist-favoring NATO-partner, France. They hate Obama for what he thinks and does while what is being thought and done across the Atlantic is much more progressive. I really hope Obama gets another term 'cause I sure don't like the possible Republican candidates I know of... 09:38, May 1, 2011 (UTC)
 * Trump: Obama?
 * Obama:: Yes?
 * Trump:: You're fired!
 * Trump for president! The Master&#39;s Voice 09:42, May 1, 2011 (UTC)

I'd love to move to vertmont i have some friend who live there, in all political campaigns it's a three way race, Republican, Democrat, and Progressive. The Progressive party got elected a USA Socalist Senator, Some former members to US COngress, a few mayors, Alot of City Councilers, and 8 Seats in the Vertmont legislature. Go Vertmont progressives. Marcus/Michael Villanova 11:57, May 1, 2011 (UTC)

I wish that third parties would get elected to offices more in the USA, and also that there was no electoral college. I hate the government system here! I like the Rep. of Ireland's system. But yeah, here is Michigan, it is very close between democrats and republicans. The representative from some districts literally changes every two years. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 12:03, May 1, 2011 (UTC)

Okay so we got New York, Indiana, and Michigan! All we need is 47 more and we'll have USA in Lovia. Marcus/Michael Villanova 12:11, May 1, 2011 (UTC)

No one seems to care about my first first chamber proposal (067), the revision to the Hamlet Act. What do you guys think about it? Basically I think hamlets should be independent [from towns and cities]. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 12:16, May 1, 2011 (UTC)

Oh and just to let you know may day is May 1st. Marcus/Michael Villanova 14:09, May 1, 2011 (UTC)
 * I thought that was common knowledge? It is a pretty big issue in Europe. About the socialist from Vermont: I believe he is mentioned in Micheal Moore latest film, with an accompanying 'of course he is from the gay state of Vermont'.  14:25, May 1, 2011 (UTC)

Yeah but the poster says, (looks at it again) ohhhhh you did it the europeans way here in america it would have been 05/01/11, i get it okay!!! Yeah i've watched that movie at least 10 times, his name is Bernie Sanders, the only one of his kind in america. He recently fillabustered a bill for 18 hours (talk before a vote to change minds and stuff, to stall). Pretty impresive but it didn't beat Storm Thrumond a racist from South Carolina who fillabuster the civil rights acts for 24 and a half hours. He was so rascist that he them got elected from 1940 -1990, in either Senator or governor from or for of South Carolina. Marcus/Michael Villanova 14:32, May 1, 2011 (UTC)
 * Thurmond was no true racist; he had a black daughter with his black girlfriend as a young man. Google it. The Master&#39;s Voice 14:35, May 1, 2011 (UTC)

Whom he raped. Marcus/Michael Villanova 14:38, May 1, 2011 (UTC)
 * No he didn't - they were in a short relationship and then seperated - he did not know of his daughter until later in life and he made sure she went to college in a time it wasn't common for black women to go to college. Does not sound like a racist to me, boy. Get your facts straight. The Master&#39;s Voice 14:41, May 1, 2011 (UTC)
 * From wikipedia: "He helped pay his daughter's way through college. Though Thurmond never publicly acknowledged Washington-Williams while he was alive, he continued to support her financially. These payments extended well into her adult life.[28] Washington-Williams has stated that she did not reveal she was Thurmond's daughter during his lifetime because it "wasn't to the advantage of either one of us."[28] She kept silent out of love and respect for her father[6] and denies that there was an agreement between the two to keep her connection to Thurmond silent.[28]" The Master&#39;s Voice 14:42, May 1, 2011 (UTC)

So the fact he wanted blacks segregated isn't racist?Marcus/Michael Villanova 14:46, May 1, 2011 (UTC)
 * Not neccesarily. Black Nationalists are also in favour of segregation. And you know very well that in the politically correct USA, blacks cannot be racist no matter what they say or do. It is, apparantly, a white thing. The Master&#39;s Voice 15:12, May 1, 2011 (UTC)

Racism is racism i never said one kind was better than the other. Marcus/Michael Villanova 15:26, May 1, 2011 (UTC)
 * Well I personally do not believe there is anything wrong with segregation. As long as it is voluntary it is okay in my book. What I think is wrong is to force diversity upon people who do not wish for it, and thus increase tension and crime in return. Nothing wrong with an all-white neigborhood or an all-black school if you ask me. It's a choice people are allowed to make. The Master&#39;s Voice 15:31, May 1, 2011 (UTC)
 * But they're just people, black-white-yellow, all are red once bleed. Well this 'choice' will never happen and even though its voluntary it would still create tension, and being multi-cultural is an American base. I can't believe we have a segregationist in our Congress, what group of people in Lovia would support him..thats what I'm wondering. I'm so glad that racism is out of my school, a medium income area with no metal detectors or any gangs, I love my multi-cultural school and all my black friends and Chinease friends and all my Mexican friends and all my white freinds. I see no color, I see who you are and what you are inside you by getting to know you. Nathaniel Scribner 16:44, May 1, 2011 (UTC)
 * Others have had less pleasant experiences with multiculturalism, Mr. Scribner. You are the exception rather then the rule. Sometimes it works, sometimes it does not. However there is nothing wrong with schools or neigborhoods for one single ethnicity. It's a choice we are all free to make, just as it is your choice to live in this "multi-cultural valhalla" you describe here. The Master&#39;s Voice 17:21, May 1, 2011 (UTC)
 * We should push all our schools to become multi-cultural valhalla's, stop the hate and racism. I'm so glad I have the choice to tell my children to love all, any where, any time, for not what they look like, but by they're deeds. Nathaniel Scribner 17:29, May 1, 2011 (UTC)
 * We should not push anyone, give the choices a free choice. You cannot force your idea of the ideal society upon everyone - I say if a school wants to allow everyone, let them. If they don't, they don't. Accept that. Live and let live. I too will tell my children to love all - but also to be proud of who they are themselves and to marry within their own ethnicity. Since we live in a free society, I have that right, as do you. And I will not let anyone force multiculturalism upon me. The Master&#39;s Voice 17:34, May 1, 2011 (UTC)
 * Thats not loving at all, you sir are a man of hate and racism. Nathaniel Scribner 17:40, May 1, 2011 (UTC)
 * No sir. In fact among my best friends there are several muslims; some Kurds, an Iranian, a Palestinian and an Afghan family. I was invited to dine in their house, and had pleasant conversations with all of them. How does that make me a "man of hate and racism"? I just don't believe in the mixing of races and the mass immigration of foreigners. I am not a racist, I am a racialist. I believe in the preservation of races and culture. I believe in purity. It would be a shame if these nice people would "Westernise" and lose contact with their own culture. And it would be a shame if my people would lose contact with their own cultural and racial identity. I think these values instored in us by our ancestors are worth protecting and safeguarding. I am all for preserving not destroying. Love, not hatred, drives me. The Master&#39;s Voice 17:46, May 1, 2011 (UTC)
 * My brother in-law is a Muslim from Jordan, my sister is from the deep south, they both preserve they're cultures just fine. Telling your kids not to marry a child of different color or culture is HATE. Nathaniel Scribner 17:51, May 1, 2011 (UTC)
 * It is not - my love for my race is to big to allow my children to come home with someone from another race. But I know they will not, because that is not the way they are brought up. They are taught to be friendly towards all people; which is not the same as seeing a potential partner in everyone. If not, I fear the white race is doomed to die out, go extinct, as is currently happening with the native American Indian, of whom almost none are of pure blood anymore because the genocide committed against their people. The Master&#39;s Voice 17:58, May 1, 2011 (UTC)
 * @MV - A Rascist will always find a pretext for his rascism. Marcus/Michael Villanova 17:57, May 1, 2011 (UTC)
 * @MV: you defended race as a scientific concept, right? I totally agree there is variation within the human species, BUT it remains the same species. Advocating 'racial purity' is just one bridge too far, because it can never happen without a sociological concept of race - thus making a non-existing division on the moral level. Besides, racial purity is pure nonsense: we all have the same genetic pool, only superficial differences exist. 05:43, May 2, 2011 (UTC)
 * I was just wanting to know, is there any people that have been very successful in developing society in a left-wing political stage as with economical and technological? My history teacher sees left-wing politics the base for no more moving in to the future with nothing to peruse them to they're goals; money. Nathaniel Scribner 06:05, May 2, 2011 (UTC)
 * Frankly I find that a very poor view. It shows a lack of understanding of how rich the leftist thought is. Self-interest is always the dominant motive behind progress, even so in a socialist system. Money would be the means by which people secure their self-interest in a capitalist system. Socialists/communists (as dominant faction on the left side) claim that organizing yourself in a society - thus giving up some of your personal liberty - is in fact a way of self-preservation. A strong state can provide healthcare, education, economic stability, etc. It is a story of 'less (economic) freedom in exchange for more (economic) security'. Hope this helps? 09:32, May 2, 2011 (UTC)
 * About the innovation thing: I believe in Europe most innovative research is done on a state-sponsored basis at (semi)state-governed universities. Members of the European Union are obliged to make a certain investment in (technological) innovation - as in they have to plan it . Money isn't the only motive behind research, some people actually think the world will benefit from what they do. 09:36, May 2, 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks :D ! Nathaniel Scribner 04:26, May 3, 2011 (UTC)

Is everybody here socialist? Aged youngman 09:09, May 3, 2011 (UTC)

For Sale
The Museum of Art is selling one of its works, Painting No. 9 by Piet Mondriaan (1942). All offers will be reviewed, but preference is given to museums, so that the public may enjoy the work. HORTON11 23:33, May 9, 2011 (UTC)
 * If no other offer is made, the Museum of Modern Art is willing to buy it at the estimated value. We will create a new hall for it since this abstract expressionism doesn't fit any of the existing collections. 05:29, May 10, 2011 (UTC)
 * We will wait a few days. If no other offers are submitted, you are free to buy it. HORTON11  13:47, May 10, 2011 (UTC)
 * I'd love to purchase this fine piece of art. The Master&#39;s Voice 15:08, May 10, 2011 (UTC)
 * I presume this is for a private collection? HORTON11  15:26, May 10, 2011 (UTC)
 * You assume correctly, sir. The Master&#39;s Voice 15:35, May 10, 2011 (UTC)
 * I do prefer it to be in a public collction. But, if the LMMA does not express renewed interest in the paintng, you are free to buy it. HORTON11  15:57, May 10, 2011 (UTC)
 * It would be a shame to let it disappear into the shadows of some private chamber, no offense Master. Maybe we can work out an arrangement where the work is at disposal to the public during the summer holiday + september? 05:54, May 11, 2011 (UTC)
 * @Yuri- It would be nice if you could buy it, so that all Lovians can enjoy it. But you two can work out an arrangement. HORTON11 14:16, May 11, 2011 (UTC)
 * "this abstract expressionism doesn't fit any of the existing collections" we have an expert here. Also: all art to the people! Aged youngman 14:19, May 11, 2011 (UTC)

Since no one has offically started the betting i'll start it at 0.01$ to be then donated to MoMA in NYC. Marcus/Michael Villanova 19:55, May 11, 2011 (UTC)
 * ??! I believe the owner has the right to determine the starting price? Also, the Museum of Modern Art is working out a joint ownership with The Master. It would be a shame to let Lovia's only Mondriaan leave for the US. 05:52, May 12, 2011 (UTC)
 * Its not the only Mondrian, the MOA has 2 others. Generally a work like this is worth around $ 10,000,000. HORTON11  12:34, May 12, 2011 (UTC)
 * I will buy it then donate it to the museum. This is both an act of kindness aswell as a personal choice, as the painting depicts degenerized modern art. I buy it and then the museum may put it on public display. The Master&#39;s Voice 14:35, May 12, 2011 (UTC)
 * If you'll do that, then I will accept the deal. HORTON11  14:50, May 12, 2011 (UTC)
 * I bet the minimum amount of money for it not to be given to Master's Voice or another private collection. Private collections are bad, kthxbai. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 16:11, May 12, 2011 (UTC)
 * Are you willing to donate (or sell) to another museum? HORTON11  16:19, May 12, 2011 (UTC)
 * @TimeMaster: I agree. It is a shame that part of a common cultural inheritance is locked away. All works of major importance should be available to the public. 07:02, May 14, 2011 (UTC)
 * Why not donate it to the public immediately then, Horton? That way you're sure it isn't locked away. If you sell a painting to the highest bidder, it being locked away is a risk you know you take. The Master&#39;s Voice 07:04, May 14, 2011 (UTC)
 * Yes, I am going to donate it to a museum, Horton. I am not going to pay an outrageous amount of money (over some high number), however, to beat Master's bid. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 12:33, May 14, 2011 (UTC)

Be different...


I don't really get this stand out marketing of the SDP. . . they are a large party. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 20:20, May 11, 2011 (UTC)

IDK but it's propaganda and a campaign slogan so it doesn't need to make sense The GOP's campign solgan is "A vote for us is a vote for you...p.s. not really" but that doesn't really make sense either. Marcus/Michael Villanova 20:22, May 11, 2011 (UTC)

2 members is hardly large. And we want people to choose the alternative to the traditional parties. To stand out and have their voice heard. HORTON11 20:24, May 11, 2011 (UTC)


 * Lol, that not only applies to your party. The UNS is about as far from a "traditional party" as a cactus is from Antartica. The Master&#39;s Voice 20:26, May 11, 2011 (UTC)

reminds me of southerners saying "Your more different than a Junebug in May." I actually like the campaign slogan. Marcus/Michael Villanova 20:29, May 11, 2011 (UTC)

There are currently no parties with more than two active members. =/ —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 20:31, May 11, 2011 (UTC)
 * I guess the elections wont be very exciting due to the low voter turnout. All running members could well be elected if the number of MOTC is not fixed too low. Who will become PM might be more interesting though: with little votes in play the competition gets real hard. 05:55, May 12, 2011 (UTC)

I think it'll make it even more dramatic. Smaller sample size less votes to go around.Marcus/Michael Villanova 10:32, May 12, 2011 (UTC)

Movie
Transbaum Films is planning to make one called The Age of Discovery. We will need actors to play the parts of: HORTON11 19:13, May 12, 2011 (UTC)
 * Arthur I, Stephen Robinson, William Jefferson, George Smith, John Smith, Andrew Johnson, George Lincoln, Ole Nielsen
 * I. G. La Blaca would love to play a part. The Master&#39;s Voice 19:48, May 12, 2011 (UTC)
 * Would you like to play Lincoln's role? HORTON11  20:08, May 12, 2011 (UTC)
 * Of course. The Master&#39;s Voice 20:13, May 12, 2011 (UTC)
 * I really understand a role and play it well, but the theater is for me. Marcus/Michael Villanova 20:18, May 12, 2011 (UTC)
 * Theater is gay! Just join the movie cast, the more the merrier!  The Master&#39;s Voice 20:31, May 12, 2011 (UTC)
 * Do you have a problem with being gay? Also, theater is fine for straights. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 20:33, May 12, 2011 (UTC)
 * It's a pretty common expression where I come from. Probably because where I live, it is indeed considered a despicable and perverted thing. But let us not get off topic here. The Master&#39;s Voice 20:38, May 12, 2011 (UTC)
 * We do need a (somewhat) young person to play alongside Stephanie Herrenhausen as Arthur I. Any suggestions? HORTON11  20:51, May 12, 2011 (UTC)
 * Thomas R. Wang is (somewhat) young. :) The Master&#39;s Voice 20:57, May 12, 2011 (UTC)
 * I was looking for someone slightly older. HORTON11  21:00, May 12, 2011 (UTC)
 * Arthur I died aged only 38 - he had by then ruled Lovia for little of ten years (from 1876 onwards). In 1876 he was 28 - Wang is 29. Seems alright. The Master&#39;s Voice 21:06, May 12, 2011 (UTC)
 * Well then we can use him. HORTON11  02:06, May 13, 2011 (UTC)
 * Um, I don't think he was Chinese. @Master: mentioning Wang really gives away your sockiehood. (or should that be sockieship?) --Semyon 11:30, May 13, 2011 (UTC)
 * I mention whoever I want. The Master&#39;s Voice 11:52, May 13, 2011 (UTC)
 * But of course. --Semyon 12:02, May 13, 2011 (UTC)
 * Glad to have your understanding, sir. The Master&#39;s Voice 13:20, May 13, 2011 (UTC)
 * @TM - where Master Voice lives is Antartica and all pengiuns agree with him but it's alright to have some gay setro-types, or guilty pleasures. I'll admint I also love glee, and broadway. But other than that everything else is straight  Marcus/Michael Villanova 19:59, May 13, 2011 (UTC)
 * Believe it or not, Sir, but even the Penguins nowadays disagree with me. The Master&#39;s Voice 06:35, May 14, 2011 (UTC)
 * Theater rocks, though I'm not a broadway guy. I prefer heavier classics like Waiting for Godot or Of Mice And Men. 07:05, May 14, 2011 (UTC)
 * "Iedere gek z'n gebrek". The Master&#39;s Voice 07:08, May 14, 2011 (UTC)
 * Come on, you gotta love some American classic like Mice and Men? No need for intellectual bullocks too, just an intriguing story about friendship. 07:10, May 14, 2011 (UTC)
 * Still then, I prefer either the book or possibly the movie based on the book. Never the theatrical version. Musicals I hate, it's like watching a freaking Bollywood film: constantly interupting the story with unneccesary singing and dancing! No, not my piece of cake sir. The Master&#39;s Voice 07:18, May 14, 2011 (UTC)
 * I prefer novels too, but a theatrical piece can be fun once in a while too. Though I'd never visit any in the musical genre. 13:02, May 14, 2011 (UTC)
 * To each his own. Although I suppose it's always better then Broadway, which is basically a travesty of movies and novels. The Master&#39;s Voice 13:12, May 14, 2011 (UTC)

State Reform 2011
As far as it exists, I still want some major changes to the constituion. You can see the changes at User:Crystalbeastdeck09/State Reform 2011 it has some changes, but major ones.

@Yuri -On the sidepage I included your Fair Trial act in the Reform and already put in the changes from 8.2 in it.

This will create a larger congress, lower the kings power, and make Lovia more democratic and better. We would have to also conduct another census to make lovia at least have a higher number in the population. In any case thanks in advance. Marcus/Michael Villanova 15:01, May 21, 2011 (UTC)

I don't like it. 100 seats is excess. That's one person for every 200 citizens. Also, are you going to instate the PM reform I suggested? Having a PM as the highest voted MOTC is really weird and unrealistic. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 15:20, May 21, 2011 (UTC)

If read it i said we need to conduct a new census wth an offical census taker, new numbers and eveything., I did do some PM reform. Marcus/Michael Villanova 15:47, May 21, 2011 (UTC)

Yes, but you said you liked the PM reform you could you add it? —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 16:00, May 21, 2011 (UTC)
 * Also if you're working on the Royal powers, could you fix the Line of Succession and officially make Alexander the heir apparant + include children born out of wedlock? I did not see that in law before. Furthermore I like the 100 members of congress - if we're gonna expand our population anyway it's fine. The Master&#39;s Voice 16:06, May 21, 2011 (UTC)

The succession is fine, the PM reform was an even further reduction of power. Marcus/Michael Villanova 18:46, May 21, 2011 (UTC)
 * No it isn't fine. Me, Horton & TM already discussed it extensively and agreed to expand it, and also to make things official, such as who is the heir apparant. It isn't in the lawbook currently. The Master&#39;s Voice 07:46, May 22, 2011 (UTC)

Fine just re-write the article or parts that you don't like. And i'll add it in. If it's not re-written it's not added in. Marcus/Michael Villanova 12:06, May 22, 2011 (UTC)

Rest in Peace
Let us be silent for a minute and remember the greatness of Mr. Poffo, a.k.a. "Machoman Randy Savage" who passed away yesterday. He was a true wrestling legend.


 * --The Master&#39;s Voice 18:53, May 21, 2011 (UTC)

... Marcus/Michael Villanova 19:10, May 21, 2011 (UTC)

Never heard of him. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 19:32, May 21, 2011 (UTC)

A Wrestling person from WWE. Oh sorry, he was A steriod using sctor baseball player. Marcus/Michael Villanova 21:51, May 21, 2011 (UTC)

Spotlight
If we were interested in getting more users, we could try to get a Wikia spotlight. What do you think? --Semyon 13:22, May 22, 2011 (UTC)
 * I an 100% pro. It's a great idea. The Master&#39;s Voice 13:29, May 22, 2011 (UTC)

We should definitly ask Yuri to this, it says a admin or syops has to ask the wiki central staff! Marcus/Michael Villanova 13:52, May 22, 2011 (UTC)
 * Do you think we can wait till after the elections? Having people stumbling in and continuously saying they can't vote/run might discourage them. Other than that, definitely pro!  05:33, May 23, 2011 (UTC)
 * No, I'd do it as soon as possible. If they join after the elections it might not be much fun since they'll have to wait months before they can run for office. We'll just agree not to harass newbies, okay? The Master&#39;s Voice 08:04, May 23, 2011 (UTC)

I say after elections so show them the new congress and everything. Marcus/Michael Villanova 20:19, May 23, 2011 (UTC)

Just keeping this discussion going don't want people to forget it. this was a good idea. Marcus/Michael Villanova

Announcing...
The 2011 edition of the Lovian Motor Show. All Lovians are allowed to enter their antique/classic vehicles (pre-1999) in the concourse, and the best will be determined by a panel of three auto experts. To sign up for the concourse do so at the main page, listing make, model, year and owner. Those who would like to be judges enquire at the talk page. I will be one so thee are 2 open positions.

PS we also nedd a head coach for the Lovian National Soccer Team HORTON11 23:42, May 23, 2011 (UTC)

It's Crunch Time
Only a few days until elections start! And i'm setting the number so everyone but one person gets elected, at eight. Also the most important thing is that we need to pass State Reform 2011 now. If were gonna have a 100 member congress let's do it now. Okay Either we pass mine or the LDP's version i don't care both are equally fine. From Prime Minister - Marcus/Michael Villanova 21:53, May 24, 2011 (UTC)

I'll vote pro to any/both, but we should have a vote in congress before the end of elections period. HORTON11 22:03, May 24, 2011 (UTC)

The main difference is that the LDP's includes the PM reform while CPL.nm's does not. In mine, say that the LDP got 20% of the 100 seats in Congress, CPL.nm got 20%, and SDP got 15%. Then the CCPL got 20%, the UNS got 15% and PCP got 10%. LDP, CPL.nm, and SDP might form a coalition and made Yuri their leader. The opposition, CCPL, UNS, and PCP, would simply form a collective "opposition". Then we could draw the Congressional diagrams by the government being on one side and the opposition being on another. This would be more realistic. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 22:42, May 24, 2011 (UTC)

Oh, also, the red line would no longer exist if we use the 100 member congress thing. Instead, your percentage of the votes would be the amount of seats you control. For example, if I got 16% of the votes, I would receive 16 seats. The only thing that is messing me up is mid-term elections. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 22:45, May 24, 2011 (UTC)

Could we not have separate elections for Prime Minister? HORTON11 22:54, May 24, 2011 (UTC)

The position of Prime Minister is not decided by the people. It is decided by the members of congress which are elected by the people. If you want separate elections, we should instate the position of President. If we had a Prime Minister which did not reflect the majority of Congress (like Donia for example), it would not be realistic. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 23:39, May 24, 2011 (UTC)


 * We could make a post of President, which would be an active head of state and thus making the King a ceremonial head of state. HORTON11  23:56, May 24, 2011 (UTC)


 * I don't get the whole President/Prime Minister thing like France, i just think its way to over complicated. We obviously have to stop mid-term elections, the red line thing, and have to have a government fully supported by the parliament, meaning a majority. Marcus/Michael Villanova 00:20, May 25, 2011 (UTC)

The Prime Minister is the head of government (like the leader of the congressional government), and the President is the head of state, plus a few extra powers in most countries. It does make sense, just read about the government of france on Wikipedia. Horton, I think that would be fine but only if the President is allowed to be an MOTC, like the monarch. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 00:44, May 25, 2011 (UTC)

Yes the Presidet should be in congress. @Marcus- he would replace the King in congress, but be a democratically elected leader. HORTON11 01:35, May 25, 2011 (UTC)
 * Just so you folks know: I oppose the idea of a president in the line of French or American tradition. One person shouldn't get that much power. I mean did we constantly took power away from the King just to give it to another individual? I don't care how democratically elected a president may be, no-one should be granted a seat for free. 07:16, May 25, 2011 (UTC)

So we can't agree on the preisdent thing, let's not do it then. But we can agree on the 100 person congress, and the repealing of Mid-terms. Marcus/Michael Villanova 10:49, May 25, 2011 (UTC)

Okay, what do you think of my PM reform? —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 11:00, May 25, 2011 (UTC)
 * @Marcus: I support the fictional Congress construction but am somewhat opposed to appealing mid-terms. I want block the proposal if there is a majority in favor, but mid-terms do serve a good purpose. @TimeMaster: what reform do you mean? 11:45, May 25, 2011 (UTC)

I am talking about the reform where the PM is not the most voted for candidate, and is instead the leader of a government coalition, a group of political parties that form a government coalition. The current system is not realistic, although maybe we could change it to Speaker of the Congress. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 17:33, May 25, 2011 (UTC)

So in your reform you should add


 * The PM reform you wanted, but keep it as PM, i'm okay with that sorta part of our system we have now.


 * and I saw you also added the 100 member congress so that's good.

Marcus/Michael Villanova 19:21, May 25, 2011 (UTC)

It has been in there the whole time. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 20:41, May 25, 2011 (UTC)

My reform is essentially done, so let's finish up the discussion here and then move it to Second Chamber. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 20:47, May 25, 2011 (UTC)

YOu still need to put it in the first chamber, sorta as tradition, but mostly for final discussion and see if other people like it. Marcus/Michael Villanova 21:31, May 25, 2011 (UTC)

Aren't we discussing it here? I'll put it anyway. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 21:45, May 25, 2011 (UTC)

Yeah but it's still national rule, I mean we could all agree on a national health care bill, but if it doesn't exist or we have different ideas about we should do it in congress, not a pub Marcus/Michael Villanova 00:20, May 26, 2011 (UTC)

It's because we're all drunk and we don't know what to do! —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 00:46, May 26, 2011 (UTC)
 * Some of important matters on the European integration were discussed at a restaurant so this is no scoop. 10:43, May 26, 2011 (UTC)

Yeah and we all need to sober up but also when putting it in the second chamber, we have to approve it article be article if that article was changed. Marcus/Michael Villanova 19:51, May 26, 2011 (UTC)

Also, with this system, say that the CPL.nm received 24 seats. They could put in Alyssa, Szohad, Johnson, and Frum as some of the congresspeople, and if they return, the seat could be donated to them. Also, long term people who went inactive wouldn't be inactive IC, their votes would just be controlled by their party. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 01:28, May 27, 2011 (UTC)
 * Sounds like a great idea, TimeMaster. The Master&#39;s Voice 09:54, May 27, 2011 (UTC)
 * Well, in that case the party system should be changed a bit. People generally don't stick to the party views (at least in the past) and we should hold more "party assemblies", but I guess this is just a minor change. I like this idea too and it's practically the same as the system used in Mäöres. (though there everybody is in the coalition and the opposition is made up by fictive people, so nobody becomes extremely unhappy). --O u WTBsjrief-mich 10:42, May 27, 2011 (UTC)

Gone
I will be missing from the days of June 1st - June 3rd, will be taking a vist as PM to Philadelphia, talking American-Lovian politics and both our consitutions. The second day visting gettysberg to see the great battle and discuss immigration with the Amish from Lancaster County. Third day talking American Trade about hersey chocolate and such. Marcus/Michael Villanova 01:13, May 27, 2011 (UTC)

Cool. Have fun. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 01:24, May 27, 2011 (UTC)

Have a nice trip :) As long as we'll see you back it's okay I guess :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 10:28, May 27, 2011 (UTC) I don't wanna be the only guy still using colons, so I'll do like this from now on :(

Therapeutic cloning
I'm was hoping to get my company, Umbrella, into the devlopment of a new research center in a biding town. I'm just wanting to know if there is any special laws against therapeutic cloning? ( No we are not making any zombies. ) Nathaniel Scribner 01:59, May 27, 2011 (UTC)
 * Anyone have any ideas? Nathaniel Scribner 02:02, May 27, 2011 (UTC)
 * According to the Constitution and Fed Law, it seems like not. Go ahead. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 02:06, May 27, 2011 (UTC)
 * It is controversial so I hope the newspapers will react hysterical...  05:41, May 27, 2011 (UTC)
 * You may clone me. Always wanted to have a little mini-me. The Master&#39;s Voice 09:56, May 27, 2011 (UTC)
 * Don't think that'll be a good idea :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 10:29, May 27, 2011 (UTC)
 * I wanna have a some little guy following me like that dude in the Island of Dr. Moreau or Doctor Evil. Now I can finally furfill my dreams! The Master&#39;s Voice 10:35, May 27, 2011 (UTC)
 * Odd dreams those are...  10:38, May 27, 2011 (UTC)
 * Well if you make a kid he'll look like you (I know from expierence ) but not always and rarely 100%. A clone, however, is exactly you in every aspect. If you make him tiny like Mini-me you have some sorta little minion which is kinda cool. xD The Master&#39;s Voice 10:41, May 27, 2011 (UTC)
 * Would he be just less tall like a dwarf or scaled down completely like an elf? It would make a difference since they'd both require genetic manipulation and the first one would not even look like your proportions. 10:43, May 27, 2011 (UTC)
 * I don't support cloning, but if there are really practical uses, the government should put heavy controls so this does not get out of hand. HORTON11  13:01, May 27, 2011 (UTC)
 * Cloning always gets out of hand. God creates life, not human beings. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 13:07, May 27, 2011 (UTC)
 * Too bad. There are no laws. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 13:08, May 27, 2011 (UTC)
 * @OWTB: You know what God used to create life? It all started of with self-replicating proteins. That's right, God used self-cloning chemicals. 13:09, May 27, 2011 (UTC)
 * Evolution nonsense :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 13:10, May 27, 2011 (UTC)
 * Oh, so you are one of them fellows that believes in the instant-giraffe mix of Dr. Oetker? 13:12, May 27, 2011 (UTC)
 * Never heard of that one :P I'm one of those Bible people you know :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 13:13, May 27, 2011 (UTC)
 * I thought you were at least an enlightened Christian who thinks God is double-great because he invented evolution too!  13:14, May 27, 2011 (UTC)
 * Yeah, that's how they did it in 7 days. xD —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 13:16, May 27, 2011 (UTC)
 * No, I'm progressive in a way that I accept gay people and things like that, but evolution is too much to accept :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 13:18, May 27, 2011 (UTC)
 * You serious? You actually believe that the book Genesis is literally true? I mean, even without all the translation mistakes it remains pretty flawed - as in HUMANS WROTE IT. That does not imply there is no God or that he wasn't an inspiration but the source is clearly man-made. Seven days, only a being as impatient as a human could come up with that. Don't you think the Eternal would 'take his time'? 13:21, May 27, 2011 (UTC)
 * Why should he? He is strong enough to create it within seven days and imagine you want something very dearly, then you ain't gonna wait eighty years if you can get it right away. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 13:29, May 27, 2011 (UTC)
 * Why didn't it take them seven seconds then? —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 13:30, May 27, 2011 (UTC)
 * Because he wanted to teach the way he did it to humans in an understandable way and in a speed we could imagine. If he made it in 7 sec, nobody would have believed it. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 13:32, May 27, 2011 (UTC)
 * Regardless, cloning should have limits. (look what happened in Jurassic Park). HORTON11  13:32, May 27, 2011 (UTC)
 * Umbrella Corporation, Creationism, Jurassic Park, ... why not ask the sugarplum fairy for a solution? 13:37, May 27, 2011 (UTC)

Laws concerning the practice of cloning
If you ask me it's and open and shut case:
 * Someone wants to clone people\animals\whatever. There is no law preventing this from happening - whether or not this is ethnically correct I leave in the middle - so in order to prevent this from happening you can do one thing, and that is to propose proper laws on this.

Just my two cents. The Master&#39;s Voice 14:12, May 27, 2011 (UTC)
 * Aren't there international restrictions on cloning purposes? Like UN-bound or something? It would be handy. 15:12, May 27, 2011 (UTC)
 * Are we a member of the UN? --O u WTBsjrief-mich 15:14, May 27, 2011 (UTC)
 * I was only suggesting to base our guidelines on theirs if they have any.  15:15, May 27, 2011 (UTC)
 * I miss those good old UWN times baby :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 15:18, May 27, 2011 (UTC)


 * Cloning is no good. Only cloning of cells for medicinal research should be allowed. Aged youngman 15:18, May 27, 2011 (UTC)
 * If cloning is "not good" because "man may not create life" then how about artificial insemination for infertile couples? I mean, where do we draw the line here? And: is it okay to break moral and ethical codes for the sake of the greater good? The Master&#39;s Voice 14:49, May 29, 2011 (UTC)
 * I think genetic tempering with non-sentient organisms should be allowed with a two restrictions: (1) it may not pose a treat to either public health safety or the ecological system and (2) the goals need to be restricted to issues of medical or scientific nature. This principally allows making vaccines, enhancing crops, IVF-related things, cloning for medicinal research. This does not allow the cloning of pets, engineering babies and creating human clones. 14:55, May 29, 2011 (UTC)
 * How does engineering babies pose any sort of threat to public safety? For example: breast cancer, autism or sickle-cell disease are hereditary; they run in the family. If you can choose to implant only the embryo that does not carry these diseases in IVF you give the unborn child an advantage in life and save future generations a lot of trouble by, as you call it "engineering a baby". It does not have to be a bad thing. The Master&#39;s Voice 15:01, May 29, 2011 (UTC)
 * Cloning intellectual species is out of the cause, SP is looking into the devlopment of creating human toes, fingers, kidneys through non-harvest cell research. When little Johnny gets his finger blown off by a firework (another discussion) and losses his entire finger, Scribner Pharmaceuticals will be there to help. Nathaniel Scribner 15:11, May 29, 2011 (UTC)
 * Thank you for reassuring us. And, Mr. Scribner, while you're back: might you be interested in voting in the Second Chamber on the State Reform Proposal (it needs YOUR vote to pass). The Master&#39;s Voice 15:18, May 29, 2011 (UTC)
 * @TMV: I was talking in general, it would fit under 'issues of medical nature'. With baby engineering I targeted at people actually designing their babies like 'mine needs to have brown hair, blue eyes, should be a boy, etc.' 06:35, May 31, 2011 (UTC)
 * @Regaliorum: I understand that wouldn't be alright, yes. Although it wouldn't make much of a difference since only celebrities and rich folk could afford it. The Master&#39;s Voice 14:08, May 31, 2011 (UTC)
 * @Regaliorum: I understand that wouldn't be alright, yes. Although it wouldn't make much of a difference since only celebrities and rich folk could afford it. The Master&#39;s Voice 14:08, May 31, 2011 (UTC)

Education should be more visible!
I think we all agree - even with the commies :P - that education is at the base of our society. In order to make education tastbaarder (I guess in English that's more tangible, right?) I think it could be a good idea to write "edubooks" (books used at school and yes, that's a calque from Limburgish órbeuk, 'cause I've got no idea what to call that in English :P) for at least those subjects only taught in Lovia (so I was thinking of Oceana language - History of Lovia and the world - Geography of Lovia and the world - though we could leave out the part "and the world" :P). I've done the same thing in Libertas when Nýttfrón was still an independent country and I believe it's useful, interesting, making things clearer, more easy to look things up when finished, fun to create and not having to do with politics (especially the last one, at least if you write NPOV :P). I could make a start for Oceana language, but because it's quite a lot of work, I'm not going to do anything until I've heard some reactions from our other beloved Wikination users :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 10:53, May 27, 2011 (UTC)
 * This sounds like an amazing plan, Mr. Ilava. I fully agree and support your idea(s). The Master&#39;s Voice 10:54, May 27, 2011 (UTC)
 * A great idea indeed. 11:02, May 27, 2011 (UTC)

This is a big task. I like the points that are made. Marcus/Michael Villanova 11:25, May 27, 2011 (UTC)

, make a start and we'll see how this works out. Aesopos 00:42, May 31, 2011 (UTC)

Vote SDP
HORTON11 17:00, May 30, 2011 (UTC)

Current Poll updates
These electons are gonna be difficult to figure out, and to see how many seats they have. So Nova Times will be updating you every few day(s). (If it's 13.4% it's 13 seats, If it's 13.5% and above it's 14 seats)

We will have full update in awhile...but so far the LDP is far in the lead. Marcus/Michael Villanova 00:02, May 31, 2011 (UTC)

A look back from the end of last years election...
I came last year, I was new unexpirenced user the second wiki i ever edited on (The first was Yu-Gi-Oh! Wiki hence my username) and i really wasn't that smart on politics (some say i'm still not ) but i've learned alot ALOT!!!...about politics and cultures. Anyway here was a article I wrote in 2010 at the end of the elections call "The Great Election of 2011"

T'was a great election with Yuri Becoming Prime Minister once again. This years congress is a mixed bag of liberals, commies, and some WLP. But as all countries do what about next election? I know your thinking thats a whole year away, but lets just see.

Coalition LD+WLP- they'll try to host more candidates this time around. I think it started as a PM race but i think alot of people like the two parties combined as is.

Liberal Democrats- Maybe instead of hosting three candidates they'll host none. Like I said try to do the WLP+LD again and could win 7 maybe 8 seats. I think so.

Walden Libertarian Party- Alone this party can't win more than one seat. But combined With the LD they could finally, (In the way later times...lol) could win PM.

Progressive Democrats- Wow, again winning the PM spot again, but it's a little weird how they only got three guys into congress. Tho there has never been much gridlock in the congress you'd think they'd want more congressmen. Good luck and what a great job!

Lovian Communist Party- Great party that causes trouble. Sometimes it's there fault but 90% of the time i think people are just wanting to fight. Any way with one solid win with Mangus you'd think they'd make a colaliton or somthing. Watch out they could get 2 or 3 members next time around.

List Oos Wes Ilava- What a weird party name. Maybe they could attract more members if they named there party. Lovian Conservative Party, Lovian Populist Party, IDK. Scince there the only really conservative party you'd think they'd have more members.

Smaller Parties
Lovian Democratic Party- Small party and since there are really no pledged members and to large and in charge liberal parties it will be kind of hard to win a congress seat.

IGP- facist parties will never thrive in Lovia. But with it's headlines and weird views at some point in the next 50 years they'll get a MOTC.

Lovian Republicans- The "pouplist party" is small in numbers and has me as one of there members.

So check out all of these parties new members.( if there are any present and would be also randomly reading this)and be prepared for next years Elections!!!!!

Crystalbeastdeck09 22:29, January 30, 2010 (UTC)

None of the parties lasted, and we defintly changed. this came from The Pub archive/4 Please enjoy! Marcus/Michael Villanova 22:36, May 31, 2011 (UTC)
 * Interesting. So, did the IGP actually run in the elections? The Master&#39;s Voice 05:29, June 1, 2011 (UTC)
 * @Marcus: those parties changed significantly: Progressive Democrats became CPL.nm, List Oos Wes became CCPL, out of the IGP ashes rose the UNS and LD/Walden/others are now on the rise as 'liberals'. I thought it'd be nice to stress the continuity too.  07:49, June 1, 2011 (UTC)

Vacancy: blues band members
I am starting a blues band, The Bayside Dumpsters. Are you into blues? Then join on in. We are still looking for someone to play the piano and an additional guitar could also come in handy. If you are interested than let me know. Harold Freeman 15:21, June 1, 2011 (UTC)
 * Well, I play the guitar, but politics is taking over all my time, so if you can't find anybody else you could contact me è :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 15:24, June 1, 2011 (UTC)
 * I would do most of the writing but I hate to create fictional people. They need too much background so I simply contract users. I will let you know. :) Harold Freeman 15:28, June 1, 2011 (UTC)
 * I. G. La Blaca has a pleasant, deep singing voice (the result of much whiskey & cigars) and can play a nice tune on the guitar.
 * He looks old as dirt and in blues that is a good thing you see. I just have some questions concerning his political views. Blues music is not a matter of color but is does carry a certain inheritance. Harold Freeman 15:58, June 1, 2011 (UTC)
 * Music and politics shouldn't have anything to do with each other, if you ask me. I'll play in a band with anyone regardless of who they are: in music, all people of the world can be united, albeit for a short moment. Look at football games! The Master&#39;s Voice 16:04, June 1, 2011 (UTC)
 * I'm not really into blues, though I have some contemporary blues-rock artists in my playlist. @TMV: I'd love to see La Blaca sing rock that thing baby to a mean ol' @#!*% . (no disrespect meant, just my prejudices on blues music)  16:18, June 1, 2011 (UTC)
 * He fits in well: face like Methusalem, voice like Howlin' Wolf. The Master&#39;s Voice 16:20, June 1, 2011 (UTC)
 * Still, I don't see him singing nasty bits of lyrics about heavy women committing adultery which is in my mind what blues songs are about. I'm probably wrong so never mind. 16:22, June 1, 2011 (UTC)
 * We'll see what happens - maybe he'll run away screaming after one repetition? The Master&#39;s Voice 16:24, June 1, 2011 (UTC)

Gaming Commission
Does anyone think we should have gaming commissions for each of the states? This would be for regulating casinos, and lotteries. HORTON11 17:12, June 1, 2011 (UTC)

I'd support a national commission, but state commissions is too individual. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 17:36, June 1, 2011 (UTC)

We need the states to do something, so this would give them some control over their affairs, but not too much power. HORTON11 17:38, June 1, 2011 (UTC)

We really don't need the states to do something, plain and simple. We don't have enough people for the states to have control over their own affairs. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 18:00, June 1, 2011 (UTC)
 * We could just pretend that they do, untill we get more members. The Master&#39;s Voice 18:01, June 1, 2011 (UTC)
 * We can just give them control over this, but its more of a formality. HORTON11  18:09, June 1, 2011 (UTC)
 * If Kings would only license casino's which pay heavy taxes (to protect the citizens of Kings) but Seven would allow any casino, then Kings can no longer protect its citizens since they will all go gambling across the state border. I don't mind executive power for the states on this matter, but there should be national legislation. Dividing the legislative power will only result in competition between the states, a race to the bottom. 10:58, June 2, 2011 (UTC)
 * Well we could make a minimun federal standard, and then allow the states to make the more specific regulations. HORTON11  12:40, June 2, 2011 (UTC)

History
I've had some ideas about developing our nation's history, and I was wondering if anyone else had any suggestions. To be honest I find that when big projects are developed on wikis there tends to be a lot of discussion but little done, so if you have any ideas for interesting events, political movements etc. could you email them to me? Then I can combine it all together before proposing it formally. I hope no-one thinks this is taking a liberty? --Semyon 19:16, June 7, 2011 (UTC)
 * Eh.. I think it's too "closed". We can't see what others have proposed.. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 19:19, June 7, 2011 (UTC)
 * I don't see the advantage of that. Also, are people really interested? I assume not, by the fact no-one has done anything with this for three years. --Semyon 19:25, June 7, 2011 (UTC)
 * Semyon, a "big discussion" doesn't have to be bad. It will draw much attention to your project and since most of the "old garde" appears to have left I don't think too many users would oppose your ideas, however revolutionairy they may be. I like your idea, though, and believe it could very well result in more activity and some well-written historical pages. I must ask you to try and incorporate as many pre-existing historical figures in our history as possible instead of inventing a bunch of new-ones which will leave us with 200+ founding fathers and all that nonsense. But again, I like the idea and would be willing to cooperate. The Master&#39;s Voice 19:28, June 7, 2011 (UTC)
 * Of course. Alright, I'll try writing down a few ideas. You'll have to wait a moment tho'... --Semyon 19:40, June 7, 2011 (UTC)
 * How we kept neutrality durning WW2's pacific war.Nathaniel Scribner 19:46, June 7, 2011 (UTC)
 * I too feel it's bland...but i guess it has to be bland in some places beacuse we didn't have users then to make decisions. But we could liven it up. Marcus/Michael Villanova 23:38, June 7, 2011 (UTC)
 * Correction: we should live in up! ;) The Master&#39;s Voice 07:58, June 8, 2011 (UTC)
 * @Semyon: 'no-one has done anything with this for three years' - that is incorrect. I wrote a general history for Kings tying political changes to socio-economic circumstances etc. I also proposed a theory on why Lovia was never occupied by a colonial power/the US. Others did things as well: Hurbanovan wall, immigrants comming from places, etc. It might not always be as detailed as we want to, but there is history. On the WWII issue: my take would be we followed the pattern of Latin-American states. 08:59, June 8, 2011 (UTC)
 * What is strange is that Arthur II was killed by a German spy yet despite this massive provocation we remained neutral. That's rather weird, you must agree. We need to find a decent explanation for this. The Master&#39;s Voice 09:05, June 8, 2011 (UTC)
 * Easy: our sensible leaders knew that the axis powers didn't pose a treat to us due to our proximity to the US. Going to active war would cause more costs (funds and people) then needed to secure our safety. We could however say that the authorities became more alert in looking for spies. 09:12, June 8, 2011 (UTC)
 * Okay. Then we could write that the Germans murdered the King as a means of provocating the Lovian people enough to enter the war; which failed. The Master&#39;s Voice 09:17, June 8, 2011 (UTC)
 * And what exactly makes Lovia so important to the Germans? I hope not our 'strategic position' because the US would simply overrun the Germans within a day. 09:30, June 8, 2011 (UTC)
 * I have no idea, frankly. It was the King who wrote that thing about Arthur being murdered by a German spy, you should ask him. ;) The Master&#39;s Voice 09:44, June 8, 2011 (UTC)

Updates
I wish i could do this, but honestly would anyone know how to find a vote to seat ratio right now? I can't fin it in the back of my notebook. Marcus/Michael Villanova 23:41, June 7, 2011 (UTC)
 * Easiest thing in the world: AMOUNT OF VOTES PER PARTY / TOTAL VOTES GIVEN would result in a good estimation. Of course in the end we will have to round up the numbers, moving everything .5 and higher to a 1 and giving precedence to the highest one (conflict between .8 and .9 means the .9 gets the seat). After that we must divide the party seats over the candidates based in the votes, using the same rules in calculation. Does that help you? 06:22, June 8, 2011 (UTC)
 * Made a calculation for the parties based on the current votes (06:33, June 8, 2011 (UTC)) and only for the parties: CPL.nm 39, LDP 22, CCPL 12, PCP 9, UNS 8, SDP & Semyon Breyev each 5. That makes for a 100 seats. 06:33, June 8, 2011 (UTC)
 * Nice, hopefully this keeps up! If you check out my side page for my list of congressmen, not all will be going to CPL.nm but all are going to be progressives. Marcus/Michael Villanova 10:42, June 8, 2011 (UTC)
 * There is still the UNS, Marcus. We, too, will make it into Congress. Would you call us progressives? If so, I'm flattered, in a way. The Master&#39;s Voice 10:48, June 8, 2011 (UTC)
 * No i meant my congressmen i'm creating pages for Marcus/Michael Villanova 10:54, June 8, 2011 (UTC)
 * Pff, it will be a lot of work for us. I don't mind you handing out seats, as long as we remain in the some spot in the ranking, which would be first. I'm thinking of some figures too, but that will be for after the examinations (I have my last on the 20st).  14:38, June 8, 2011 (UTC)
 * My school is in panic mode for finals, so they made some up...this is not joke. But i did well on my French final, I got a 89/100 so i'm pretty happy, still got math and science to go. 70% of them are going to CPL.nm, but all would still vote for most progressive things. Marcus/Michael Villanova 19:36, June 8, 2011 (UTC)

Also back on track: I wouldn't vote for Dae-su he seems inactive and the more votes he gets the more seats he gets to be inactive. Marcus/Michael Villanova 19:53, June 8, 2011 (UTC)
 * Ah well, he's a fine politician and an excellent user. He has been around several times - not as often as you and me or Yuri but when he is active he edits a lot. He said he was looking forward to being elected so that he could be in politics. I think he waits for his elections, then he will become more active. The Master&#39;s Voice 20:05, June 8, 2011 (UTC)

I mean he's not a bad user, but i would like the politicans to be more active. Marcus/Michael Villanova 20:08, June 8, 2011 (UTC)
 * We should give everyone some credit these times. If I'm honest I know I should be studying this instant, not visiting Lovia.  12:59, June 9, 2011 (UTC)
 * Well Youri, that's tunnelvisie è. It ain't Lovia or studying, it's Lovia and studying :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 14:35, June 9, 2011 (UTC)
 * True, i'll be putting new statsictics in Nova Times. Marcus/Michael Villanova 20:41, June 9, 2011 (UTC)
 * @OWTB: problem is that after studying for several hours I like to do something else than sitting behind my laptop.  10:23, June 10, 2011 (UTC)
 * Tsss.. You ain't no real Lovian then :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 19:56, June 10, 2011 (UTC)
 * Damn straight! Marcus/Michael Villanova 20:10, June 10, 2011 (UTC)
 * So if you don't log in an a daily basis you're no good a user? Or are you guys joking on this? Aged youngman 10:36, June 11, 2011 (UTC)
 * Joking Marcus/Michael Villanova 11:25, June 11, 2011 (UTC)

For your information
I'll be offline untill Monday or Tuesday, dunno yet. My sister is getting married, she lives in Jakarta. Goodbye, The Master&#39;s Voice 20:54, June 10, 2011 (UTC)

Okay! Have fun! Marcus/Michael Villanova 22:13, June 10, 2011 (UTC)
 * Likewise, this will be my last edit for at least a month. --Semyon 09:13, June 11, 2011 (UTC)

Keep traditions in mind!
It's tradition that Wikination becomes inactive after the elections, not during :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 18:25, June 13, 2011 (UTC)
 * True but also we held these in a bad time so maybe this is a good thing. Now the congressmen can be zctive after elections and write laws and articles. Marcus/Michael Villanova 19:12, June 13, 2011 (UTC)
 * Also I think we should do that wikia spotlight thing now. Marcus/Michael Villanova 19:34, June 13, 2011 (UTC)
 * I'm terribly sorry but I will be unactive for another week or so, possibly longer. Family matters. The Master&#39;s Voice 20:20, June 13, 2011 (UTC)

Good plan, Marcus. :D —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 22:11, June 13, 2011 (UTC)

Actually it was semyon's idea i just keep reposting it so we don't forget it. It's yuri's job to ask the wikia centeral staff for approval. Marcus/Michael Villanova 23:49, June 13, 2011 (UTC)


 * Yes that would be good, get more members. HORTON11  00:06, June 14, 2011 (UTC)


 * True dat. Marcus/Michael Villanova 00:17, June 14, 2011 (UTC)
 * @TMV- I does seem like everyone's busy these days. HORTON11  00:23, June 14, 2011 (UTC)
 * Not me. Marcus/Michael Villanova 00:25, June 14, 2011 (UTC)
 * Your lucky, cause i Have to move to Belgium, and its gonna be a lot of work to bring over our stuff in Brazil and Philly. HORTON11  02:07, June 14, 2011 (UTC)

Well, the spotlight thing's a difficult job. I remember we did this also before you guys came and there were quite some requirements still to be met. Including already being active enough, which currently is not the case. Also, a large influx of new people is difficult to handle (citizen registers, keeping track of the newbie edits, lots of vandalism) --O u WTBsjrief-mich 09:40, June 14, 2011 (UTC)
 * These are difficult times, only 24 hours a day of which 7 spent sleeping, about 1.5 on the collection and consumption of food, 8 for studying, ... I will inform myself about the spotlight as soon as the new Congress is in place - like I committed myself before. A reminder doesn't hurt though.  12:21, June 14, 2011 (UTC)

We always need another admin to keep up when you guys are gone, i know somone who would love this job! Marcus/Michael Villanova 12:25, June 14, 2011 (UTC)
 * Well I am the only active admin I think, which is not a favorable situation. Something to discuss with the future PM maybe?  16:15, June 14, 2011 (UTC)
 * Yuri, I'm also admin ;) --O u WTBsjrief-mich 16:57, June 14, 2011 (UTC)

true but I am very very active Marcus/Michael Villanova 23:46, June 14, 2011 (UTC)


 * Well so am I. HORTON11  01:16, June 15, 2011 (UTC)

I think we have a suitable amount of active admins right now. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 01:23, June 15, 2011 (UTC)
 * @OWTB: sorry, I confused admin with the thing above again. Currently the site is kinda in the governance of all users anyway.  08:57, June 15, 2011 (UTC)
 * Yeah :P Well, admin just means you can delete pages and should be looking RC for vandalism and stuff like that. Activity is necessary, but not a reason for being admin. It's also no state, 'cause you can be admin and not even in Congress, so you ain't got nothing de tell :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 12:19, June 15, 2011 (UTC)

Photoshop
If you download the free version is good? How long does it take, i think somwhere around 10 hours? Well if these are answered thanks! Marcus/Michael Villanova 15:45, June 23, 2011 (UTC)
 * I downloaded so called 'cracked software'. It gives you a full version with a license key (or a bypass to avoid having to enter the key) in little over an hour depending on your internet connection. Please note that this is considered theft in a moral sense since you don't pay for the product. In most countries it is however only illegal to offer cracked software, downloading and using it is legally alright. I don't know how familiar you are with torrent downloads, but it is comparable to downloading music files. If you need any more assistance you should mail me (joerivds [at] live.be) since Lovia is hardly the place to discuss this. 06:16, June 24, 2011 (UTC)

Commiepol
With the new Congressional workforce in place, we want to know who is your favorite CPL.nm politician? Marcus Villanova : Moderate, reasonable and ambitious. Just the way I like it. Yuri Medvedev : A man who knows what he wants and says what he thinks. Juliette Thomassen : A talented young woman with a lot of potential. Jonathan Frum : He's no politicians, he's an artist! I don't think CPL.nm has any (good) politicians.

Let us know, so we can publish a lost of 'most popular party members'. Additional comments outside the poll-box are welcome too! 09:02, June 24, 2011 (UTC)


 * To bad, I was going for my buddy Ron Nash, went to school with him. Such a funny fella. The Master&#39;s Voice 09:09, June 24, 2011 (UTC)
 * I couldn't incorporate all members in this poll. I'll note that Ron scored a point.  09:15, June 24, 2011 (UTC)

I voted for yuri! Marcus/Michael Villanova 12:13, June 24, 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks, I voted for Frum. Anyway, most people don't have a favorite commie.  06:58, June 25, 2011 (UTC)
 * Who says they don't have a favorite? They just don't like the "dream team" you came u with. The Master&#39;s Voice 08:00, June 25, 2011 (UTC)
 * I didn't want to annoy you guys with a list of people that would make you go 'huh who is he?'  06:49, June 26, 2011 (UTC)
 * Only reason I don't like these commies is becuase they arnt commies! If they really did take all the property from the greedy corporations, destroyed the monarchy, give the flag a hammer and sickle and then I'd call you a communist party. If Vladimir saw you allowing a monarch live in a mansion off the wealth of the people and giving him a status over the people with just blood and a title would absolutly insult them. Nathaniel Scribner 07:03, June 26, 2011 (UTC)
 * Vladimir, Joseph and Leon are long dead and Buried, Scribner. And I praise the Lord for that. The Master&#39;s Voice 08:05, June 26, 2011 (UTC)
 * I must admit that I am not communist if that is defined as 'preaching the proletarian revolution and trying to achieve a stateless, possessionless and classless society'. Yet I dare to say I am a marxist, for I believe in a strong state directing a large set of public domains. The CPL is against the monarchy, yet doesn't want to decapitate the poor guy. We just want Dimi to be the last monarch. Lenin was is great source of inspiration when it comes to theories such as the intellectual vanguard or the international capitalist system, but he isn't a demigod. I dare to oppose his views of a bureaucratic society and I don't think that makes me any less communist. I don't adhere soviet-dogma, hence the 'neo-marxist' addition to the party name. 09:35, June 26, 2011 (UTC)

Canterbury
I just added a new neighborhood to Kinley to avoid overcrowding. Is there any resident of Kinley (downtown) or Novosevensk who wants to move there? If not, don't worry, I'll just move inactive users. Just asking. --Semyon 15:14, July 4, 2011 (UTC)
 * I don't believe I live there :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 18:17, July 4, 2011 (UTC)

Looks nice so far Godspeed! Marcus/Michael Villanova 19:05, July 4, 2011 (UTC)
 * So no-one? That's OK, if you change your mind just leave a message. :) --Semyon 18:06, July 12, 2011 (UTC)

Sorry!/Find me!/News!
Sorry guys but i'll be a little unactive over here for the next few weeks i'll be at AltHistory wiki build up my althist. If you have to ask anything do not hesitate to ask just leave a message on my talk page. Also I have some news if you were notified a few weeks back Wikia is getting a new skin. Your probaly saying "Not this shit again" but it's actually really really nice! The editing page is also 300 times better, but they gave it to the more active and larger wikis first so if you want to see it check it out at Althistory wiki. Thanks and i'll be checking in! Marcus/Michael Villanova 19:05, July 4, 2011 (UTC)
 * (1) I'm rather busy at the moment too. No second chance examinations this year so I ought to celebrate. (2) When all the world adheres a 3D touch screen filled with flowery colors and sent, I will still swear with the old-style Monobook skin. I just like the charm of nostalgia that comes with it.  11:08, July 5, 2011 (UTC)
 * Yes, I'm also gonna stick to monobook :P @Marcus: good luck at althist :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 13:59, July 5, 2011 (UTC)
 * I'll also be busy these days. The move went okay but there's lots to do, and were also having relatives from Rotterdam and Gent coming over. HORTON11  16:02, July 5, 2011 (UTC)

I don't like Monobook almost as much as this skin I'm using right now, which is Wikia/Oasis. Also, rich text editing sucks since it always thinks you are a noob editor and don't know how to do anything past making a link... So I just use the code editor. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 16:05, July 5, 2011 (UTC)
 * Yes, I also hate rich text editing. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 16:26, July 5, 2011 (UTC)

The new editing page thingy is way better, the rich/complex/source code thing is faster and better. Marcus/Michael Villanova 17:02, July 5, 2011 (UTC)

It may be faster, but it is not better. It assumes you are a noob editor, and keeps people as noob editors (instead of teaching them code). —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 19:53, July 5, 2011 (UTC)

Indeed, I miss those good ol' times when you still needed to know what you were doing. Those rich text editors and other extra stuff generate bad codings which can be not-conform the standards of a certain wiki and therefore are irritating to users who like a different system (f.e. cats before iw, instead of iw before cats, if you place iw before cats it'll create a space between the text and the cats in monobook, which is very ugly) --O u WTBsjrief-mich 21:04, July 5, 2011 (UTC)

Looks like I'm on the conservative side for once. I agree it is nice to 'help' people in their editing but if it leads to making them dependent I'm not so happy with it anymore. Knowledge and craft empower the user. 05:41, July 6, 2011 (UTC)

Gone
I'll be in the States in August. The Master&#39;s Voice 15:47, July 7, 2011 (UTC)
 * Don't come to New York Marcus/Michael Villanova 16:14, July 7, 2011 (UTC)
 * Cool. For the entire month? Will you be unable to edit for some time? —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 16:26, July 7, 2011 (UTC)
 * For two weeks. I have a girlfriend in Oklahoma City. The Master&#39;s Voice 16:45, July 7, 2011 (UTC)
 * I would expect you to say 'my girlfriend lives in Oklahoma City'. Either my standards for English are falling or someone isn't all in for serial monogamy. Either way, have fun in the States!  06:03, July 8, 2011 (UTC)
 * Monogamy is an admirable quality. It's just not for me. You know the saying: "in ieder stadje een ander schatje"? Officially, it's business.  The Master&#39;s Voice 08:26, July 8, 2011 (UTC)
 * Hey, do as you please. It's none of my business anyway.  09:20, July 8, 2011 (UTC)
 * Well, I am a very open person. ^^ The Master&#39;s Voice 12:12, July 8, 2011 (UTC)

Historical census data
As part of the project on expanding our history, I thought we could add some historical census data. I've therefore uploaded a (somewhat radical) plan. As you can see from the graph the key features are: Lovia's population goes up rapidly to around 180000 after the world wars, only to decrease to around 3000 after the Great Famine.

Advantages of this would be: What does anyone else think? --Semyon 06:55, July 9, 2011 (UTC)
 * Integrating the Famine more into our history. I always felt disappointed this area of history was never expanded.
 * Allow broader scope for imagination. We could invent historical towns and even possibly states which were deserted.
 * The large population would help to account for how unrealistic Lovia is. For instance it would explain why we have a university.
 * If we want to increase Lovia's population, we could initiate a German-style Law of Return. This would to my mind be more realistic than saying 'yeah population suddenly increased to 200000.'


 * @#!*%, that famine killed 80% of the population or something... Did it kill any royals or celebrities? The Master&#39;s Voice 07:29, July 9, 2011 (UTC)
 * No, this is too much. If it goes from 180.000 to 3.000: where are the ruin cities? And also, take a look at Oceana (people) for other data which can't go with this. Anyway: we do have places like Scotland in Oceana which have been deserted (though prior to the famines, I could change it a bit to match it with this) I'd say we make it a little bit less radical to let's say 50.000 to 100.000. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 11:36, July 9, 2011 (UTC)
 * It is indeed much to drastic. And if we would go from 100,000 to 50,000, we would face another issue, because then we would have to explain why the population continued to drop even after the famine - because we are a small nation and have less then 50,000 citizens, if I'm not mistaken. The Master&#39;s Voice 11:54, July 9, 2011 (UTC)
 * Well, a small scale drop after the famine could be possible due to emigration (people might be afraid of another famine) or because the harvest continued to be bad for a few years. Forcing farmers to search work elsewhere and lowering the number of child birth. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 15:19, July 9, 2011 (UTC)
 * The numbers of children born to Lovian women have always been remarkably low, especially the last decade, although most celebrities and politicians have quite a few nowadays... Maybe a (recent) increase or decrease in population has to do with immigration or emigration of Lovian nationals? The Master&#39;s Voice 15:41, July 9, 2011 (UTC)
 * Well I'm for creating the historical towns, but do not think killing off 180,000 Lovians is good. I'm sure the US would have send food and aid, maybe not officially but I'm sure local fundraisers would. HORTON11  15:56, July 9, 2011 (UTC)
 * I agree. Atm it's too drastic. And historical towns... It'll be difficult to prevent people from creating 2.000 new villages within the next decade then :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 16:59, July 9, 2011 (UTC)

I also agree, it is too drastic. I'd like to see a peak of 30,000-ish before the famine knocks it down to 10,000. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 17:09, July 9, 2011 (UTC)
 * Yeah, sounds okay. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 09:49, July 10, 2011 (UTC)
 * I can see this idea isn't too popular, at least in its current form. But I don't see the problems you've raised are insoluble:

Would it be possible to have at least a decrease from 100,000 to 10,000? --Semyon 20:46, July 10, 2011 (UTC)
 * Having to change the pages of famous people: actually this is OK because 'royals and celebrities' wouldn't suffer too much in a famine.
 * Oceana statistics: also OK, as immigrants would probably stick to NC. Furthermore, it wouldn't surprise me if a nationalist governor introduced very strict immigration laws to prevent cultural dilution.
 * Ruined cities: personally I think it would be cool to have a ruined city lying about somewhere. But it wouldn't be hard to explain disappearance of the ruins. A flood could have swept them away, or a canny farmer might have razed them to the ground to create more land.
 * 180,000 people dying. Sorry, should have made this more clear. I intended emigration rather than death, tho' of course some would die. This is quite possible, see the Irish famine. Also, like I said, if we wanted to increase Lovia's population for the next census we could have a German or Israeli style 'Law of Return' whereby emigrants are allowed to return.
 * On the disappeared city/town issue: why not have the state razing the city in order to create a national park or something? A monument could remain (like a church building with a Great Famine Museum inside). Sounds fairly realistic to me.  05:45, July 11, 2011 (UTC)
 * A law of return would be nice, although I do not like the particular law by that particular people that you base this idea on, Semyon.
 * There would be other ways to increase the population numbers. How about a higher birth rate? We have a quite a few (conservative) Christians here, and also we have jews & muslims. All of these religious minorities typically have larger then average families. Surely that would mean the population could also go up the natural way. The Master&#39;s Voice 06:34, July 11, 2011 (UTC)
 * I feel that in 'western world countries' having a large religious community does not lead to high enough numbers to drastically increase birth rate. After all most mothers in religious families now study and work too. The opportunity cost for a child simply keeps rising, something only hardliners can escape (like our Amish community). 07:10, July 11, 2011 (UTC)
 * Well, if the religious community is big enough, it will increase the birth rate significantly. Maybe not in a 300 million people country such as the US, but in a nation as small as Lovia it probably would. After all, the clergy of all three Abrahmic religions tend to ask from their churchgoers to "go forth and multiply". And there are plenty of atheists who have large families; didn't Darwin have ten? The Master&#39;s Voice 07:37, July 11, 2011 (UTC)
 * My point was that even within religious communities birth rates tend to decline when a certain level of welfare is reached. Only people who proactively seek to procreate in large numbers form an exception to this (mostly weirdo sects with numbers too small to be even called 'a minority'). Be fair, how many christians with their own kindergarten do you know? Even muslim immigrant families in Belgium have a declining birth rate - not weird considering the fact they held pretty high numbers before immigrating. The solution is to be sought in influx/outflux of population rather than humpetybumptying. 13:36, July 11, 2011 (UTC)
 * Most rabbi's have somewhere between 5 & 15 children and they are usually rather wealthy people. Imam's also tend to have many children. They do not belong to "small weird sects", but to religions that are generally seen as more or less "mainstream". Roman Catholic families can also be very large. Wealthy or not, they are generally fertile people, and their priests, though celibate, encourage the community to be fertile. To most religious people, the family & churhc are the corner stones of our society. The Master&#39;s Voice 13:45, July 11, 2011 (UTC)
 * Yuri, I can give you ten families in Montfort with more than 8 children :P And Limburg may be a bit old-fashioned and poorer than the rest of the Netherlands, we still don't live in poverty :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 16:07, July 11, 2011 (UTC)
 * It's true. In the USA you have a family with 22 children, and both parents are well-educated, and the father of the family is a low-profile politician. We have some fertile people here, too... How about this one or this fella? The Master&#39;s Voice 16:12, July 11, 2011 (UTC)
 * Well, our CCPL guy also has a few children :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 16:34, July 11, 2011 (UTC)
 * Istvan and his horde of women and children trumps anyone here, but I would'nt condone that. Its quite immoral. And Yuri, your point is valid but not necessarily true. Many people want to have lots of kids, even if they have high welfare levels. HORTON11  16:42, July 11, 2011 (UTC)
 * Mr. Ilava, pretty impressive! Well, at least you married all these women, unlike Donia & Istvan. The Master&#39;s Voice 16:52, July 11, 2011 (UTC)
 * I think you all missed my point: I know religious people have a higher mean fertility rate than non-religious people in western countries. Yet the overall mean fertility rate within religious communities in the western world is dropping, both of domestic an immigrant groups. Sure they can still have four or six children, but when you come from ten or twelve that is a dropping fertility rate, not? The examples you all mentioned are not a tendency but rather the exception on a quite different tendency. 05:50, July 12, 2011 (UTC)
 * Yes, it's dropping, but if you take a close look, you'll see that if the average number is 5 children, the religious population will probably double in about one generation :) --O u WTBsjrief-mich 08:53, July 12, 2011 (UTC)
 * I just thought of this: doubling every generation is an exponential growth so within a few generation our small isles will be harmfully overpopulated. Birth control anyone?  06:11, July 13, 2011 (UTC)
 * Well, perhaps only Amish Kinley, Little Europe and Oceana will be overpopulated :P And everybody knows you just want birth control, 'cause you commies are afraid of losing power when all those Christians get voting right :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 06:14, July 13, 2011 (UTC)
 * I only want to keep population in check since overpopulation is undeniably harmful. Besides, a growing religious community seldom sees a rise of unity in thought.  06:17, July 13, 2011 (UTC)
 * Not per se. If we live in harmony with nature, overpopulation will never occur :) Depends, if the other community decreases to 0 everybody'll be religious and then you'll get a unity in thought ;) --O u WTBsjrief-mich 16:54, July 13, 2011 (UTC)