Forum:First Chamber

__NEWSECTIONLINK__ In Lovia, Congress is the national legislative body and the most powerful branch of government. The First Chamber is one of the two chambers of Congress, in which the Members of the Congress propose bills and debate them. The Second Chamber is where they are eventually voted. Despite the two-chamber system, Lovia does not have a bicameral parliament: there is only one group of MOTCs that both debates and votes the proposals. For the current composition of Congress, see this.

As prescribed by Article 6 of the Constitution, all Lovian citizens "may write and propose motions to the Federal Law", that "are presented to the Members of the Congress in the First Chamber." The MOTCs' duty is to "read the motion and form a personal opinion about it. In order to obtain the support of a majority of Members of the Congress, changes may be proposed in the First Chamber." If a majority is likely to be found, the proposer will move the bill to the Second Chamber for a vote.

The First Chamber is not a popular assembly where all citizens can express their personal interests. Polling the population ought to happen outside of Congress.

2014.5 Congress
Alright, so it looks like this Congress is gonna be made up of the following MOTCs: If we want to maintain the general list of people in the old Government, we would have approxiamately this: As we can see, we have two openings (Minister of Finance and Minister of Energy/Resources). There has been talk of me assuming the position of Minister of Finance, which I would readily accept.
 * Oos Wes Ilava (CCPL)
 * Charles Jones (CNP)
 * Lukas Hoffmann (CNP)
 * Alexei Krasnov (CNP)
 * Justin Abrahams (UL)
 * Marcel Cebara (UL)
 * Nicholas Sheraldin (GP)
 * Rakham Tarik Al-Asmari (GP)
 * Dirk Brandt (Independent)
 * Aina Sarria (Independent)
 * George Wrexley (Independent)
 * Jason Rogers (Lovian Unionist Syndicate)
 * Prime Minister: Justin Abrahams
 * Ministry of Agriculture: Rakham Tarik Al-Asmari
 * Ministry of Commerce: Lukas Hoffmann
 * Ministry of Culture: Oos Wes Ilava
 * Ministry of Defense: Lukas Hoffmann
 * Ministry of Education: Marcel Cebara
 * Ministry of Energy and Resources: Wrexley
 * Ministry of Environment: Nicholas Sheraldin
 * Ministry of Family, Youth, and Elderly: Oos Wes Ilava
 * Ministry of Finance: Brandt
 * Ministry of Foreign Affairs: Nicholas Sheraldin
 * Ministry of Health: Justin Abrahams
 * Ministry of Justice: Charles Jones
 * Ministry of Labour: Rogers
 * Ministry of Tourism and Sport: Sarria
 * Ministry of Transportation: Alexei Krasnov
 * Speaker of the Congress: Nicholas Sheraldin

Additionally, we have three other new MOTCs w/o Ministries to fill. I would like to see ministers of the same party relinquish their ministry to these new MOTCs along general ideological lines.

I think it is safe to say that I would caucus with the CNP, while Wrexley and Rogers would caucus with the UL and Sarria with the GP.

Therefore, according to my thought, Sarria would take on a position held by Sheraldin (as he holds two), and Wrexley/Rogers would take on roles held by Cebara or Abrahams.

I would also like to ask a few constitutional questions: Anyhow, thanks for reading this huge chunk of text. We can kinda work it out as things get going, but I think all of this needs to be addressed. 05:53, August 3, 2014 (UTC)
 * 1) According to the Constitution, the elections should've lasted three weeks. That should be changed for two reasons: it a) buys us some time (so it doesn't look like are inactive) and b) allows us to be constitutional. (That would have Elections end July 21)
 * 2) According to the Constitution, there is not a date for innauguration of a Special Congress, but I think it would be 11 days after the last day of elections. That would put it at August 1, which is about modern day.
 * 3) We should have a new coalition formed, according to Article 8, section 2.2, which consists of 50% of the MOTCs.
 * 4) To me, it would look like a CNP-CCPL-Brandt coalition and a UL-GP-LSU-Sarria-Wrexley coalition, making the UL-GP coalition the main one in the nation with 58.667% of the MOTCs.
 * 5) Since we had special elections as per Article 8 section 1.4, is this the start of a new Congress (ie Second Congress of 2014 or the like) or is it a continuation of the 2014 Congress?
 * 6) If it is a new Congress, we should elect a new PM. In fact, I think we should do this anyways. Just read Article 8, 2.1 to 2.3 to see what I mean.

Please note: All of this is not spoken from the Perspective of Brandt, but from my personal opinion ((Also, we really broke a decent number of laws by chosing to go with just us and not the full Congress of 100 people. I understand our elections didn't take place as they normally would have, but I think that we can do a small set of elections as per normal in order to get to the 100 number. The laws we broke are:


 * Constitution, Article 8, 1.1

So, I really think we need to do the voting thing.)) 06:04, August 3, 2014 (UTC)
 * Constitution, Article 8, 3.2
 * Public Law, Article 5 section 1

Great to see the new Congress getting underway! Regarding Cabinet roles, I would like to continue my role as Minister for Education, as I've got some new ideas for Lovia's education system that I would like to implement. Also, I think we should definitely involve some new users/characters in the Cabinet. I'd be happy to give my role as Minister of Labour to a new user, possibly Rogers or Sarria. Frijoles333 TALK 08:04, August 4, 2014 (UTC)

How about my above proposal. Traspes was interested in sport so we could give her that, Labour gan go to Crystal, he'll like that, Brandt gets Finance as he wanted and Wrexley can have energy, which is the other open ministry. Plus we could also hold special elections for the speaker if there are more people interested in that position. HORTON11 : •  15:10, August 4, 2014 (UTC)

What about the need to bring the count up to 100 members? Are we just going to each have 8.3 votes/people? I think that is a bit confusing, so we would need some people to have 9 characters and some only have 8. Thanks, 19:46, August 4, 2014 (UTC)

This is not a formar full congress so we do not need 100 members. HORTON11 : •  20:07, August 4, 2014 (UTC)

Everybody will get just one vote in the Second Chamber, with a total of 12 votes to be cast. --O u WTB 09:03, August 5, 2014 (UTC)

Yeah, that makes sense. HORTON11 : •  14:55, August 5, 2014 (UTC)

May I say I support this proposal for allocating ministerial positions with one exception, I would prefer a different prime minister. Nothing personal but I feel we need someone who is better at handling tough situations like we found ourselves in recently, and especially someone who can really drive a government. I would advocate Oos as first choice however if he would not I would either prefer to converse with others or put myself up to the role. Despite my recent absence I am now finding time to return and be a regular contributor. And I would hope no one can doubt that I have not driven this wiki forwards, not alone of course, but as part of the many great contributors who have made this wiki the delight it is. I would stand by a program of reinvigorating the wiki once more with the likes of reximus as well as older members and pushing the wiki in an active direction, encouraging participation. Of course, only if Oos would not take the position. Hoffmann Kunarian TALK 16:01, August 10, 2014 (UTC)

Operation: Clean Slate
Considering that finally we might actually have an active congress, could we please begin by laying out our plans for the coming term. I believe first things first should be to mop up the mess of this stupid invasion and pass laws to stop all the madness from happening all over again. Further we should move to reform the political system in Lovia so that it rewards interaction and contribution.

I believe that we, acting in the best interests of Lovia (the wikia and the nation) can make it so that we once again debate policy and issues of society, governance and business rather than issues of war, rebellion and riots.

Below is a more detailed plan that I will alter as time goes on and more contributions are added. This step by step plan will be a combination of executive actions on various levels as well as legislative actions. I'll cross things off the list as we go on and complete actions. After the repairs and reforms are done, I believe we can move forwards and look to our own party political policies.

I'd also like to just say that I would again like to say that I would support the above government proposal if I or Oos was Prime Minister. I feel that I would be the better choice, simply to drive the repair and re-establishment of this wikia and nation but would feel comfortable under Oos if people would prefer.

All I can say is that despite a lot of talk, little has happened. I feel I can make things happen and if not then you can boot me out. Either way, I feel we need to make a decision and actually start actioning things. Hoffmann Kunarian TALK 18:12, August 10, 2014 (UTC) OPERATION: CLEAN SLATE

the groups responsible for each action are in brackets


 * 1) Establish government.
 * 2) Debate in First Chamber. (CONGRESS)
 * 3) Proposal and vote in Second Chamber. (CONGRESS)
 * 4) Mop up of issues.
 * 5) Blackout across Oceana is lifted. (MINISTER OF ENERGY AND RESOURCES)
 * 6) All dissenting or uncooperative government institutions and politicians as well as other groups to accept the current Lovian government and its direction under pain of arrest in return for pardons. Including the revocation of any executive or legislative action as well as demobilisation or disbandment of groups formed during the crisis that could cause potential future issues. Reasserting of control by the Federal Government over unmanned institutions. (CONGRESS/OTHER GROUPS)
 * 7) *State of Sylvania
 * 8) *State of Clymene
 * 9) *Sofasi Citizen Union
 * 10) *Southern Cross Alliance
 * 11) *Lovian Land Army
 * 12) *Federal Police
 * 13) *Sylvanian Militia
 * 14) *Lovian National Army
 * 15) *UNLOR forces
 * 16) Assisted relocation of people fleeing violence (particularly Clymeni political dissidents and Oceana refugees) back to their homes. Assisted relocation of those recruited into fighting forces (particularly the conscripts of the Lovian National Army) back to their homes. (STATE GOVERNMENTS/GOVERNORS)
 * 17) Amnesty for collection of weapons. All weapons without license are to be handed over to the Lovian Government, people suspected of hoarding dangerous caches of weapons are liable for arrest and trial. (MINISTER OF DEFENCE and MINISTER OF JUSTICE)
 * 18) Issue of arrest notices for members and associates of destabilising factions and militias. Investigation into finding possible criminals. (MINISTER OF DEFENCE and MINISTER OF JUSTICE)
 * 19) *Communist Revolutionary Union
 * 20) Dispatch of emergency aid to all damaged communities by State Governments. Ministry of Finance to assist in funding aid. (STATE GOVERNMENTS/GOVERNORS/MINISTER OF FINANCE)
 * 21) *Clymene
 * 22) **Cornwall
 * 23) **Plains
 * 24) **Rosendorp
 * 25) **Sofasi
 * 26) **Xiandu
 * 27) *Oceana
 * 28) **Boynitz
 * 29) **Coldhill
 * 30) **Dubnitz
 * 31) **East Hills
 * 32) **Heighnow
 * 33) **Hurbanova
 * 34) **Magna Augusta
 * 35) **Newmouth
 * 36) **Westwall
 * 37) **Tshadsa
 * 38) Other supportive Ministerial and Governor Actions
 * 39) Damaged community funding. Create state funds for repairs, building projects and enterprises in damaged communities to help rebuild. Ministry of Finance to help support funding. (STATE GOVERNMENTS/GOVERNORS/MINISTER OF FINANCE)
 * 40) Legislate for a more stable Lovia
 * 41) Completely reform the outdated acts in the Criminal Law Book to allow for better control of firearms, more political independence of the FP and a separate act to control the formation of militia as well as define the difference between a militia and a security company allowing private enterprise to act in favour of stability.
 * 42) *Federal Police Act - Make the federal police independent of the Ministry of Defence and Congress, rather make its actions controlled by this legislation and give congress nominal control over its funding but allow it to manage itself. This will stop the Federal Police being used for political manoeuvres and will add another interactive aspect of Lovia. I will write the Act for everyone to put under scrutiny. (LUKAS HOFFMANN/CONGRESS)
 * 43) *Firearms Act - Make the act an actual regulation of firearms, not a free for all for hunters. This will simply tighten up security in Lovia and make weaponising of society near impossible. I plan to also regulate the manufacture of firearms which currently is not regulated, which is really, quite bad. Also make the militia bit into a separate act. (LUKAS HOFFMANN/CONGRESS)
 * 44) *Militia Act - This act will govern militias, defining exactly what they are and not allowing for loopholes. This will once and for all deal with our longest standing issue to stability by completely supporting prosecution and providing a framework to deal with suspected militia. (LUKAS HOFFMANN/CONGRESS)
 * 45) *Security Company Control Act - This act will regulate security companies and make them a viable tool for anyone to use to protect their businesses, property and communities as well be a way for us to control the desire for people to have militias and a way to control and raise funds from security companies. This act will also contain a part denoting that these companies will be required to be vetted and receive training and cooperate with the Federal Police (such as a legal requirement to report any suspected unlawful act), so as to weed out extremists and also make the security companies a tool for having more eyes on the streets so to speak. This act will contain a tax (whether it is on profit or a poll tax on the amount of employed security guards, my preference, is up to debate) on security companies to discourage people making personal armies. (LUKAS HOFFMANN/CONGRESS)
 * 46) *National Levy Act - This act will allow for the establishment of a temporary Lovian Emergency Force in times of crisis (this could be a peacekeeping force/humanitarian force/military force) and will establish the structures under which such a force would be created and operate eliminating personal armies once and for all. (LUKAS HOFFMANN/CONGRESS)
 * 47) Pass reforms to create a more inclusive Lovia
 * 48) Collecting funds for actions performed
 * 1) Collecting funds for actions performed

Discussion
Almost done. Will write down list of legislation required. Hoffmann Kunarian TALK 18:12, August 10, 2014 (UTC)

Also I can't stress how much we need to reform. The last time this happened, my calls to reform were only partly heard and now we find ourselves back at square two (not square one, we have moved on, just not enough). Also some planned acts have been added. Hoffmann Kunarian TALK 18:45, August 10, 2014 (UTC)

Most of this seems good. All active militas and armed groups active during the war should be disbanded as should the Lovian National Army. IF we do want a permanent armed force to deter future invasion we'll need something much better organized and of course congressional approval. HORTON11 : •  19:25, August 10, 2014 (UTC)
 * Glad we're on agreement on the first issue. And I would support disbandment of the militias/armed groups including the LLA. On a permanent armed force, if we did go there, I would politically separate them from Congress in a similar manner to the police, so they are reasonably independent and cannot be used as a political weapon except are given general orders by Congress which their leadership then carry out. I think the key thing about most of the planned reforms above is separation of military and political powers. I mean it's too easy for people to just form a militia, call them hunters and arm them which is incredibly destabilising for Lovia. Hoffmann LogoCNP2wt.png Kunarian TALK 22:15, August 10, 2014 (UTC)
 * Personally I'm not too keen on a permanent military, but given our propensity for armed conflict it's something we do need. Of course a permanent military would not be a body under congress, as most militaries are not. But, I would not want to have one military figure wielding control of the armed forces, as was seen with Bennett. HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 20:34, August 11, 2014 (UTC)
 * I would agree on all cases. Hoffmann LogoCNP2wt.png Kunarian TALK 22:06, August 11, 2014 (UTC)

I'm interested in seeing how this will develop. However, as time is limited to me, I would prefer not to take on the post of PM. --O u WTB 09:46, August 11, 2014 (UTC)
 * Understood, I'll present myself as an alternative then. Hoffmann LogoCNP2wt.png Kunarian TALK 22:06, August 11, 2014 (UTC)
 * I am opposed to you being PM in an OOC manner. Your party, my party, and the CCPL, who are all the "Rightists" are outnumbered by the "Leftist" group of GP/LUS/RI/UL. Therefore, a politician from their side of the aisle should be chosen. Furthemore, I would like to stress that this Government is violating the Rules of the Wiki, which state that we must follow the Constitution. We are not doing so, in direct violation of the Site Regulations. 08:13, August 14, 2014 (UTC)
 * CCPL is not rightist. It's views on the economical side are more leftist than rightist. Also, our government is leftist, so we need a rightist PM is a fallacy. We need the most competent, motivated, and experienced user as PM, as it currently stands that would be either Kunarian or me. --O u WTB 09:19, August 14, 2014 (UTC)
 * @Rex: First of all in Lovia while we occasionally fall into arguments over left or right, we are not bound to these limits. This isn't america where we're all red or blue, we are a forwards thinking democracy and our parties co-operate often in various areas. Also I think you'll find that there are areas where UL and the CNP agree where the CCPL don't or where RI and CCPL clash and you and the RI don't. We've also long had Oos as Prime Minister as a grand coalition and before that we had Villanova, none of these times were the Prime Ministers leaders of one massive "leftist" block, in fact the three last Governments where largely pushed through by a grand coalition of the CCPL, CNP, GP and UL/Labour in cooperation with other parties.


 * I'm really sorry but I completely disagree with you OOC and IC because its a completely limiting and negative viewpoint and suggests we don't work together. The last time we had that viewpoint, the government was composed of almost one party entirely while others were left to rot on the side.


 * And three last things: 1. To be honest we don't do OOC and IC like that here, we roleplay but we don't say "Oh you can't do that because I don't think your character would" and limit people. 2. From an OOC and IC perspective I am proposing this government, OOC because I have the drive and willpower and have written a lot of legislation for this website and so therefore the skills and IC because the CNP are the largest party and want to work with the rest of the Lovian parties to really drive Lovia back into repair. 3. Honestly, I have the reforms (all of which will be scrutinised and non-partisan), I have the energy and skill to make the legislation needed and to fix up Lovia, but to get them through it would be nice to be in the driving seat for this and that's all I'm asking and if I do a good job hopefully I'll be kept on and if not then I'll accept a replacement in January (which is only 3 and a bit months away anyways). Hoffmann LogoCNP2wt.png Kunarian TALK 17:09, August 14, 2014 (UTC)
 * @Oos: Thanks for your support. Hoffmann LogoCNP2wt.png Kunarian TALK 17:11, August 14, 2014 (UTC)
 * Ok, thanks for the clarification, Kun. I was just thinking of this like the OTL  (Althist mentality FTW!) regular UK, the only other nation whose politics  I follow that is organized something similar to Lovia. I have no issues with you being PM, I just thought it would be implausible. That's all. Move the cabinet proposals to Second Chamber, or not yet? 06:03, August 15, 2014 (UTC)

1. Damage Assessment
I think there is some need to assess the damage from the invasion. We need to look at the invasion from (at least) the following perspectives: Then, we need to assess any potentialities for a court case (ICJ, mayhaps) or at least how much we managed to confiscate.
 * Cost of human life/casualties of civilians
 * Damage to housing
 * Damage to industry
 * Damage to agriculture
 * Damage to public infrastructure
 * Schools
 * Transportation
 * etc.

Then comes the distribution/reparations of what was lost. I think that we have a couple of options on how we can do this: The best way to do any sort of fund transering would be via the Ministry of Finance, which would be happy to coordinate surveying of damage with any other applicable Ministries who wish to survey their respective fields.
 * 1) All funds that were confiscated will be split evenly amongst all adult citizens of Lovia, regardless of if their property was damaged.
 * 2) All funds that were confiscated will be sent to all adult citizens of Lovia that can prove that their property was damaged. The funds can be split either:
 * 3) According to cost of damage, or
 * 4) According to cost of damage in relation to net worth, or
 * 5) Evenly amongst all claimants
 * 6) Pay first for all medical injuries and a set amount of money for any deaths to the survivors of the deceased (both civilian and FP)
 * 7) Addditionally, perhaps give veterans benefits
 * 8) Put a 6 month (or similar length) freeze on all taxes in Lovia. This will make it profitable for companies to make big investments.

My personal suggestion is to first do #3 (pay all bills of wounded/dead), then #2.2 (give funds proportionate to damage in relation to net worth), and additionally enact #4.

If we look at the Public Law Art. 13.1, section 1.3, it states that Congress may not change the budget after April 1, but I think that we can gain a majority of people here who are willing to vote yes on overruling that provision in order to cut taxes and increase tariffs to attempt to maintain as much of a balanced budget as possible.

Now, you may ask "Doesn't raising tariffs increase prices for consumers?" and that answer is generally correct, but it also is protectionistic. As much as I hate government intervention, moderately high tariffs can do us well in a time like this. Additionally, we can keep low tariffs with allies who helped us vs Burenia (ie Brunant, Traspes, Prasia).

00:11, August 4, 2014 (UTC)

Discussion
My fellow MOTCs, please react to this. As we sit around waiting, there are many internal refugees and people who lost everything due to the Burenian invasion. We cannot wait any longer. 06:25, August 15, 2014 (UTC)

Any thoughts, please? 23:21, August 21, 2014 (UTC)

Yes, I like this idea. But give money only to the people that were affected I think. Traspes (talk) 01:15, August 22, 2014 (UTC)

I agree with Traspes. Lovia was not the aggressor in this war, therefore they are not responsible. If anyone should pay, it's Burenia. Also, a six month tax freeze would indeed enable companies to make more investments, but it would also cripple our government's funds for reconstruction and medical treatment. --O u WTB 09:36, August 22, 2014 (UTC)

Whatever we confiscate from the Bruenians may not likely be much. A few military vehicles and equipment would be the bulk of that. Like Traspes and Oos we should really be supporting those affected by the fighting, ie. injured, dead family member, lost home etc. Your ideas 2 and 3 are good but we'd most definately need to keep taxes in order to fund our support. One thing you looked over which would also be of help if foreign aid. I'm sure Cettatie and other wikiantions could donate money to Lovia and the UN, World Bank or others could contribute some financial aid. Brunant's IDEA would be able to give especially development aid, in reconstructing schools and community buildings, bringing people from abroad as volunteers and helping set up programs to assist the needy, and I think Traspes or some other nation has a similar development agency that could help. HORTON11 : •  13:12, August 22, 2014 (UTC)

Mäöres will probably also be willing to help Lovia, as a large number of people in the affected areas (especially Oceana) is from Limburgish/Mäöreser decent. --O u WTB 14:18, August 22, 2014 (UTC)

Yes, that would be good. I was also thinking, perhaps an "IWO for Lovia" CD with different wikination musicians in which the profits could go towards helping Lovia. HORTON11 : •  14:38, August 22, 2014 (UTC)

This plan is incredibly unrealistic and a very blanket approach to what should be a carefully managed local issue. Only a few places (mainly in Oceana and Clymene) were actually damaged and even then only Plains came under serious property damaging fire. Agriculture, industry and public infrastructure is by and large unaffected, as most forces were not fighting a battle of attrition but manoeuvre warfare.

Further the suggestion that we would raise enough funds through court cases. AGAINST WHO? Most criminals who committed crimes in the conflict are poorer people, fining them will give us about enough money to restore a few people's houses in Plains, not near enough for the mega compensation you are suggesting.

We can give the free medical treatment to everyone, we already built that in through state healthcare systems. But a tax freeze? no way. Lovia has barely any taxes at the moment and freezing it would only make this debt inducing issue worse. We should instead encourage people to pick up the pieces, we have some of the lowest costs to start up businesses and carry out repair work on properties in the world simply because of our tax and regulation simplicity (some might even say absence). Lovia can and will revive itself we just need to make sure we are here to support it.

We should take a reasoned approach like I am suggesting in Operation: Clean Slate and make sure that we have a solution that isn't a blanket aid handout but instead delegate the issue to the relevant powers (Governors and Ministers) to co-operate and form their own aid solutions that fit their local issues caused by the invasion. Hoffmann Kunarian TALK 16:57, August 22, 2014 (UTC)
 * On the matter of foreign aid, we should reach out now and get what help we can. Foreign aid could make all the difference between a quick or slow recovery. Hoffmann LogoCNP2wt.png Kunarian TALK 16:58, August 22, 2014 (UTC)
 * Cettatie can provide several million euros in aid, but that'd be about it. The country does not have a foreign aid office. Brunant's IDEA can provide long-term reconstruction assistance, in education, community projects technical and such. HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 17:06, August 22, 2014 (UTC)