Forum:The Pub

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nl:Forum:De kroegli:Forum:De Kaffeero:RoWikicity:Cafeneasv:Forum:Krogen Welcome to The Pub! This is the general meeting place in Lovia. Inhabitants can make public announcements, have a friendly chat with some copatriots, or discuss crucial issues in Lovian politics or business. Speeches can also be made at Speakers' Corner. All archives of The Pub can be found here.

History of the states
I know there's been some discussion about pre-2008 politics recently, as well as the role of the states, so here's an interpretation of how the states came to be, which hopefully you'll like enough to accept it into the official history of Lovia, and will perhaps explain some unanswered questions. Here goes.

Arthur I's original plan was for Lovia to be a strongly centralized state, with an official language (either English or Dutch) and a homogenized population, which might perhaps eventually be able to apply to become a US state. This plan didn't work out, mostly because people of different nationalities tended to stick together and keep their own culture, and the king wasn't very successful in establishing his authority. For instance, some local leaders were able to muster their own police forces which were much larger and more loyal than the king's. After his death in 1887, however, his son pursued a much more pragmatic policy, giving away legal power to several local leaders in exchange for their allegiance, for example to the Springhorses and to the early Chinese settlers of Clymene (notably not to Nikolai Sharapov who refused to deal with the Lovians). Kings and Sylvania remained under the personal control of the King. Unfortunately, this approach too failed after about ten years, for a number of reasons; conflict between the mainly Dutch-speaking population of Kings who wanted self-rule from the mainly English-speakers of Sylvania, conflict between the Americans and Eastern Europeans in Collinia, as well as disputes over territorial boundaries all over the country. After some unrest, almost a hundred local leaders met with the King in 1905 in NC to sign a document giving away further legal powers. Five areas were formed, each with a dominant language and culture. Over time, obviously, almost all of Lovia became Anglophone, some areas (such as Kings) faster than others (such as Oceana). Nevertheless, I think this explains well why so many communities, which are culturally and linguistically very different, exist across Lovia. --Semyon 15:38, October 18, 2012 (UTC)
 * Sylvania - English speakers, mostly Americans.
 * Kings - Dutch speakers, from the Netherlands and Flanders. This was opposed by the fairly large Anglophone minority, particularly in Newhaven, then a small village. To pacify them, it was agreed NH would become the capital of the state.
 * Oceana, which would be dominated almost exclusively by the Slovaks and Poles. In exchange for the Americans' loss of influence, Sylvania received some key Collinian territory, particularly around TV.
 * Clymene - Chinese speakers.
 * Seven, where the main parties (Kinley and NK) refused to compromise. In the end the declaration simply stated, rather vaguely, 'all groups shall share in the responsibility of governing.' In practice, virtually all governors were from Kinley, and Novosevensk shortly after retreated back into isolation and autarky.
 * I like it very much, thanks! :) --O u WTBsjrief-mich 15:56, October 18, 2012 (UTC)
 * I think that the Chinese in Clymene would have been a rather small minority. Chinese immigration to N. America was extremely limited, and the few that could afford the crossing would move on to San Francisco or Vancouver. What I was thinking, though, was that there would be some sort of gold (or silver) rush in in Clymene (1890s), attracting Anglo-Americans, Sylvanians and perhaps some Chinese in the US, many which would go back due to alsmost no gold. Many Americans and a few Chinses would eventually stay. HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 16:17, October 18, 2012 (UTC)
 * I don't actually agree with anything you've said (sorry :P). Chinese immigration to the Americas was not extremely limited, as Wikipedia will tell you, at least not until US immigration restrictions in 1882. It seems rather likely that Lovia would have become a popular destination instead, in the face of these restrictions. I know you don't like the idea of Clymene having a Chinese population (why not, btw?) but it's well integrated into the site, and even though you are governor you kind of have to deal with it. --Semyon 17:24, October 18, 2012 (UTC)

I really like this idea, considering that I've recently been looking into the complex politics of the wars of the roses (which deals a lot with trouble centralising and local leaders disobeying the kings of that time) I really think this'll add an extra spice to the history books. I have some good ideas about the centralisation within pre-Sylvania and conflicts between the eastern Europeans and Americans. Also even if the states were made and formed in 1905, there still would have been the remnants of the local leaders allies that weren't on the winning side that needed mopping up, definitely something interesting. Also I think that maybe this time period would be a good one to add in the origins (as it would have been multiple groups and people advocating it) of Confederate feeling within the nation. Man, I love history, there's definitely a lot to consider and do, but I'm on board! :) Hoffmann Kunarian TALK 21:58, October 18, 2012 (UTC)

Next part
Response to the above (which only went up to about 1910) seemed fairly positive, so here's the next part.

Over the next fifty years or so, the states pretty much ruled themselves, democratically. Not much happened on the federal level, because the governors were fairly conpetent and people didn't have much in common with those in other states. Most people identified themselves as by their state e.g. as Sylvanians rather than Lovians. Though the king was an important figure as representative of the whole nation and a unifying symbol, he didn't have much political power. There was no defined mechanism for making federal laws - on a couple of issues, however, the first nationwide laws were created: first, an agreement that no state would raise an army or go to war without agreement from all, and secondly a document in which each state pledged to democratically elect councils to assist them in running their states. These documents were signed by all governors as well as the king.

In the 1930s, the situation began to change. Depression caused large-scale migration between states as people searched for work, and with the clash of cultures and economic pressure over limited resources came conflict. Lovia was forced to develop a way of resolving interstate conflict, and at first it was left up to the king as a neutral arbiter. This proved inadequate after some dispute that arose in 1935 between Sylvania and some other states, shortly after Princess Lucy was elected Governor of Sylvania (my idea: perhaps the other poorer states had a lot of citizens working in NC because of the depression, and were angry because Sylvania wanted to impose some sort of extra tax on resident non-Sylvanians). The other states refused to accept the King's arbitration because they claimed he was biased towards his daughter (possibly why he was assassinated a few years later?). The tension reached a climax when they threatened to secede. Arthur backed down and created the Royal Legislative Council, which essentially took over the role of the king with regard to arbitration.

That's enough for now, I should think. :P I want to keep it a fairly vague outline so others, particularly the new governors, have the chance to put forward their own ideas. --Semyon 15:38, October 22, 2012 (UTC)


 * I like this idea, once again plenty of room to manouver and make our own history while still being on a proper well defined guideline. Personally I think that the thing that could have caused problems could be that Sylvania was increasing spending largely and won a lot of economic arguments against the other states due to being the centre of Lovia, the tipping point would be that they got to a situation when Sylvania was demanding that the other states pay taxes in to compensate for it and so the other states thought it was getting too big for its britches. Just an idea. Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 15:52, October 22, 2012 (UTC)
 * Yes, it settles the pre-Congress issues. Thanks very much. I hope the others like it too :) @kunarian: wouldn't work for Oceana, they had the only real mining industry, so they were economically nearly as big as Sylvania. For the other states, it would work. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 16:04, October 22, 2012 (UTC)
 * Perhaps that was the reason for the conflict: Oceana became big enough to challenge Sylvania for the first time. Having said that, I don't want the entire history of Lovia to revolve around Oceana fighting the rest of Lovia. :P --Semyon 16:08, October 22, 2012 (UTC)
 * No, this part would be Sylvania fighting the rest of Lovia, Oceana leading the coalition of states threatening to suceede, maybe raising a militia or two and then Lucy losing the elections for Governor bringing an end to it, with the new governor allying with the rest of Lovia to bring the kings power down. Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 16:11, October 22, 2012 (UTC)
 * That militia part doesn't sound that good to me :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 16:15, October 22, 2012 (UTC)
 * It's nothing, militias always get raised in america (and germany in 1919 to 1933) in tense times and considering we didn't make them illegal until the modern times, people who were trodden on and left jobless would most likely form private militias and be scary that's all. Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 16:20, October 22, 2012 (UTC)
 * That's true, lots of weird things happened in the 1930s. There was even a fascist group which ruled Seven for about eight years, if anyone bothered to read the article I wrote about it. :P --Semyon 16:23, October 22, 2012 (UTC)
 * Okay, then we keep the Seven militias and it's okay :) --O u WTBsjrief-mich 16:26, October 22, 2012 (UTC)
 * (I have read it Semyon!) 1920s to 30s would be pretty hectic years, and I don't think it would have been just Seven with scary militia however I doubt fascism would have got too much further but it and communism would have been very real threats to stability in that period of economic downturn however unlike other nations, they could easily be politically isolated when the states stopped bickering and then the return to stability and prosperity could happen with the end of the depression. Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 16:33, October 22, 2012 (UTC)

So what precisely was the point of contention? We know it's something to do with the states' wealth relative to each other, but not precisely what the issue was. (Another idea: Sylvania increased taxes on financial transactions out of the state, hitting migrant workers from the other states hard.) --Semyon 12:33, October 23, 2012 (UTC)


 * Sylvanian economy which had been surviving well due to heavy spending went bust, and demanded financial assistance from the other states? I think we might need to vote on this to be honest, choose two ideas that are probable and realistic and then choose between them. I like the idea about taxes on financial transactions is good, maybe combine it with my idea as a response to it going bust? it can be the straw that broke the donkeys back. :) Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 14:27, October 23, 2012 (UTC)

Final part
Lucy came to the throne in 1938. Initially unpopular (for reasons stated above), she quickly moved to conciliate the people of Lovia, by increasing representation of the smaller states in the RLC and helping to restrict the states' power to legislate against each other. Once again, the states' autonomy began to increase. However, with the immigration between states of the 1930s, and the creation of a shared Lovian culture, isolationism was no longer an option. States began to form bodies in order to work together, for instance the North Lovian Union, which imposed economic union on the north of Lovia, including the same tax system, interstate trade tariffs were banned. Similar organisations existed elsewhere, but I'll leave those to someone else to describe. :P Obviously, this additional layer of government made politics very complex and inefficient, with overlapping competencies. Irregularities compounded the problem, such as the fact that Cape Donald District in Kings was a member of the NLU but the rest of Kings wasn't.

Some time in the forties, the queen, who already had been playing a far smaller role than her father, retired altogether, appointing the first prime minister to replace her. This man (Mr X) was a big supporter of centralisation and efficient government, so attempted to break the states' power. He wasn't completely successful, but for the first time the laws began to be made systematically on the federal level, and states did lose a significant amount of their legislative authority. The RLG began to include some democratically elected people, so this is a high point of Lovian democracy. When Lucas took over in '52, he didn't try to change much.

The famines of '56 changed everything. Chaos ensued and neither the states nor the federal government was able to enforce their authority. It was particularly difficult for the states as hard times once again caused a huge number of Lovians to uproot and move elsewhere. When the famines subsided, people called for a strong figure and a centralised government. Lucas, who was seen as weak and the person responsible for the famines, was forced to resign, and was replaced by his brother, who immediately set about cutting the states, heavily weakened by the famines, down to size. Lovia became a much more authoritarian place - few members of the RLC were elected, and the King played a strong role, with a veto right which he exercised rather too often for an unelected monarch. The governors had little responsibility except appointing members of the RLC. This continued until 2002. --Semyon 16:00, October 23, 2012 (UTC)


 * This is great and there are some nice gaps in which we can fill in States history, however there seems to be very little definition on Lovian history from the 60s to the 90s maybe another final final part on ideas about that. I look forwards to writing out the economic struggles of Sylvania in the 30s to 40s (maybe they began to have to compete with the NLU and began building ties with Kings?), and the agressive Centralisation policies will be interesting to write about. :) good work again but I still think there's a gap from the 60s to the 90s we need to adress. Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 16:13, October 23, 2012 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I sort of ran out of ideas. :P --Semyon 16:16, October 23, 2012 (UTC)
 * So far, so good :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 16:45, October 23, 2012 (UTC)

Ideas for the 60s to 90s:

Putting my ideas here. I also think that we should have a rough outline for the other issues not mentioned around the 2000s and 2010-now, so that our history can be properly beefed up. Hoffmann Kunarian TALK 17:07, October 23, 2012 (UTC)
 * 60s: Economic success and the economic turbulence of the 50s coming to an end, Lovia gains a boost to its technology industry with new developments occuring and most people are able to also afford cars as the style changes from stylistic to simple. Socially things take a hectic turn: The hippy movement spreads to Lovia in the mid 60s and Feminism and Gay rights groups cause a ruccus in the states (Oceana is going to have fun dealing with them), most of these groups operate out of Noble City despite the Governor trying to keep them down. Crime also becomes a big issue and politically many politicains sell themselves on how they plan to deal with this problem along with the social unrest.
 * 70s: Low growth in state economies based on primary and secondary industry caused a nation wide depression and with rising oil prices (highlighted by the many cars people barely used because they couldn't afford them, also damaging and ending most Lovian based motor industry) with some states (maybe?) rationing gasoline. Alternative means of getting electricty gained high demands and anger towards closing coal mines caused political and economic problems, gas and oil became a big alternative with Lovia having natural gas and oil fields all around it. Environmentalism begins taking hold in Lovia and people become more concious and vocal about ensuring the welfare of the states environments, along with dwindling amounts of feminists, many returning from the feminist movement in the 60s.
 * 80s: Continued economic recession caused problems and brings around a revival in the belief of capitalism and neoliberal economic ideas, the states manage to get themselves together (whether by the new ideas or by other ideas) and are recovering at least by the end of the 80s. However during the early 80s the economic problems come to climax and causes social unrest (to be dealt with by the states). Green policy becomes a concern amongst some and popularity of the idea surges however problems ensue due to economic troubles making green policy difficult to follow.
 * 90s: All states recover by the early 90s and steady growth happens from now onwards, energy is largely supplied by the gas and oil in the seas around Lovia and Lovia becomes energy self sufficient and the oil and gas that is surplus brings in extra wealth that fuels the decades boom, the services industries experiences the largest growth, taking the lead easily over the secondary industry. Centralisation is broken down to help the economy grow and the states enjoy their greatest amount of freedom for 40 years. Feminism comes back for round three and people are generally quite content.

Sounds fine to me. I think this period might have been a time of American influence on Lovia, but in terms of political history it was probably rather boring. :P --Semyon 17:19, October 23, 2012 (UTC)
 * Yes, the 60's were a difficult time. See also: Asht Ilava. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 17:22, October 23, 2012 (UTC)

@70's miners: most mines were being closed or already closed by that time - adding up to the economic problems. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 17:58, October 23, 2012 (UTC)

Sylvanian Flag


I am going to change the Sylvanian flag to a new one, the seal on the flag doesn't really work and isn't a symbol of sylvania like what should be on a flag. I've come up with two ideas so far. One that represents the grand mountains of Sylvania (the white mountain with red sun) looking over the lands (the navy background). I chose it because Sylvania has no real state symbols and so I think that making the state symbol the mountain with or without dawning sun would add an aspect to the State that has never been there before.



I also made this one which is centered around a tree. Keeping more in line with the traditional tree related features of the state. It represents the great trees of Sylvania that have stood since the state began and represents the ever living spirit of the people within it. This is my current preference and would represent the forming of a greater cultural identity in Sylvania and giving it real detail. Plus I have ideas to link this in with Semyons ideas and craft a better more detailed history of the State.

Be great to hear your thoughts on this Hoffmann Kunarian TALK 21:21, October 18, 2012 (UTC)

By the way these are just roughs as in when the final one is chosen I will make the edges of the parts smoother and make the colours a little less bold so they seem more natural. Hoffmann Kunarian TALK 21:30, October 18, 2012 (UTC)

I've always wanted to see the Sylvania flag and seal change, so i'm pleased about this. I've always thought the other flags look better, so I'll vote the 3rd flag. Dave Leskromento


 * Personally I'm leaning towards the 4th flag but thanks for your reply :) Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 10:02, October 19, 2012 (UTC)
 * I like #3 and #2 best. 77topaz (talk) 10:35, October 19, 2012 (UTC)


 * I'll reword it. The ones that looks like trees are best but I am slightly leaning towards #3 because it has some extra detail in it. You are the governor so it's your choice though. Dave
 * See I think the green is maybe a bit too much and I prefer the boldness that comes from leaving the green out, I think that I'll probably choose number 4 unless someone raises a really good argument that changes my mind. I just feel at the moment that the tree and the blue background alone can represent Sylvania best. But I'm still on the fence for all of them. Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 14:45, October 19, 2012 (UTC)
 * Honestly I have to say that none are really beautiful, but neither is the current flag. Of all your choices I have to say no, 3 is the best, the green especially seems to represnt the state's natural side (the Emerald Highlands are green). But could I make a suggestion, what if you made the tree rounder and more symmetrical? HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 14:52, October 19, 2012 (UTC)
 * Beauty in a flag comes from the idea it produces not by the quality of its seam. Number 3 certainly seems popular at least, although the tree in the centre already represents the natural side of the state (you can see why I'm still on the fence). Ah well you see there's going to be a story behind the tree on this flag and besides symetry in my opinion would make it feel inorganic and ugly and that doesn't mix well with trees, I actually tried it and it just didn't sit well with me. Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 14:58, October 19, 2012 (UTC)
 * I still feel 4 to be very bland, while the green in no. 3 makes it so much nicer. HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 15:02, October 19, 2012 (UTC)
 * What you call bland I call straight forwards. If the green could mean something more than just the green parts of the state I might be persuaded but so far it's a little edgy. Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 15:10, October 19, 2012 (UTC)
 * The green symbolizes the state;s natural beauty and the land, and it makes a nice contrast with the blue (for the ocean). HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 15:34, October 19, 2012 (UTC)
 * hmm, I think I'll see what other people think but it's at least given them a point. However in the other one the navy blue represents Sylvania, and the tree represents the Sylvanian forests and the everlasting spirit of the people within them. Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 15:40, October 19, 2012 (UTC)
 * The blue better represents Lovia and the royalty, I think it was chosen on the previous flag aince the state was linked to these values. HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 15:44, October 19, 2012 (UTC)
 * Considering that it's a navy blue like the one from the flag it represents Liberal thought and freedom more than anything. Lovia is represented mainly by the pine and royalty by a crown without a cross. This state if anything has been least linked to supporting the crown (with many republicans calling it home) and to be honest Sylvania hasn't had a key defined culture or tradtion however I'm going to build upon that and the flag is the first step. Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 15:51, October 19, 2012 (UTC)
 * All the other states except Clymene use blue in their flags, so keeping the green could be part of a tradition distinct from the rest of Lovia's. HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 15:57, October 19, 2012 (UTC)


 * Agreed with the horton comment. BTW, the IDP was a rubbish party so I need a new party as a Seven Delegate, just thought i'd say it here because of the popular conversation. Dave Leskromento.
 * WHy not join Labour? HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 15:02, October 19, 2012 (UTC)
 * Shameless. Why not go independent or tell people where you stand, I'd be happy to point you to a good party that fits you. Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 15:10, October 19, 2012 (UTC)


 * I'd be intrested in a party that hmmm, crime must be punished harshly, that will make this wiki more real life, Everyone in Lovia has got to be equal and, the government is too powerful. Dave.
 * On your crime issues I'd recommend: CNP (mine) and PL on your realism and equality issues, you'll find differeing opinions of how that should be carried out, on your government issues I'd recommend (going from left to right in order of those in favour of least government first and most government last): CNP, PL, LDP, CCPL, Labour, CPL.nm and there you go so in all honesty, I'd have to recommend you have a look at CNP and PL but look at the other parties I've linked in case you see something you like. Hope I've helped. Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 15:26, October 19, 2012 (UTC)


 * My final desicion comes down to flaw and history and if a 'real user' is already employed in that position. I will look and take down notes. Dave


 * One last question about the State Elections? Say If i joined PL and the leader, Chris, was the Sylvania Delegate, he went in the elections, Would I still be allowed to enter the Seven elections (having a house) or can there only be one person per party? Dave Leskromento

I think we should keep the current fla. It is maybe too complex but every nation has it's unperfect thingies Pierlot McCrooke 16:20, October 19, 2012 (UTC)


 * True but we don't lose much by chaning the flag especially if we can expand upon the spirit of Sylvania. Besides the Tree flag with navy blue background and green stripes seems popular. :) Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 16:26, October 19, 2012 (UTC)

I ain't gonna read all of this discussion; you guys surely left something to read here :P My preference goes to 3. 1 and 2 are not "flag-worthy" and 4 is way too monotone. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 17:43, October 19, 2012 (UTC)


 * Yes, 3 is nice, but the tree looks like half a mushroom or an ostriche's ass. HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 17:49, October 19, 2012 (UTC)
 * That's true, but Kunarian promised to improve the accepted design, so :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 17:53, October 19, 2012 (UTC)
 * Horton find me a good looking tree that you can make into a flat colour and from which I can make it visibly a tree and then you can criticise what I can produce. Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 17:59, October 19, 2012 (UTC)
 * Like you said before, round out the edges a bit. You can make a tree without having to keep all that detail. HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 18:32, October 19, 2012 (UTC)
 * I will clean it up but seriously, that way of criticising (call it blunt or brutal) is what discourages some users. At least do it in a way without directly insulting what I've done. Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 18:36, October 19, 2012 (UTC)

Here's a new cleaner and finer design, while still a little complex, I believe that it is okay to have a certain level of detail if the flag requires it. And another (maybe better?) idea. Hoffmann Kunarian TALK 20:18, October 19, 2012 (UTC)

Please no. The tree is just too detailed to be on a flag, even if you did remove some of the fine edges. I'd say design 1 or design 2. Since people seem to like the green edging, which I have no problem with, so 2. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 20:23, October 19, 2012 (UTC)

Okay, seeming as I can't find any really viable tree options I came up with this idea. Hoffmann Kunarian TALK 21:12, October 19, 2012 (UTC)

If you add green bands to the snowflake it would look amazing. HORTON11 : •  21:16, October 19, 2012 (UTC)


 * It does look like a snowflake actually, but it's supposed to be a ring of oak leaves (still keeping the woods theme). And here's the one with the green bands, hope you enjoy them. Oh and I brightened the green, too dull before. Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 21:28, October 19, 2012 (UTC)
 * Contra to everything except number four. Like the old one personally Marcus/Michael Villanova 22:48, October 19, 2012 (UTC)
 * The number four with the tree or the number four with the oak leaves? either of those are my personal leanings. Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 22:52, October 19, 2012 (UTC)
 * Of the oak leaves ones, I like the one on the left better. The versions with the large tree are overly complicated. 77topaz (talk) 23:16, October 19, 2012 (UTC)

No, it looks like a broccoli... --O u WTBsjrief-mich 09:15, October 20, 2012 (UTC)

Marcus, you like flags that consist of a solid background with an overly complex seal on them? Those are not real flags, they are lazy flags. ;) —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 12:45, October 20, 2012 (UTC)

They're American-type flags. :P 77topaz (talk) 21:44, October 20, 2012 (UTC)

Vote for the Flag of your preference
RIGHT A VOTE HAD TO BE CALLED. These are the only two flags I am currently considering and while I could be a big mean old Governor and choose what I want I think this is the right way to do things voting will close tomorrow night:

Oak Leaf Flag without Bands:


 * - Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 23:26, October 19, 2012 (UTC)
 * I know voting already closed, but I have to have my say. :P Simplicity = sophistication. What do those green stripes really add? --Semyon 15:06, October 23, 2012 (UTC)
 * Well I think we agreed that they represent the green lands of lovia all around, while the blue background represents Sylvania and the ring of oak leaves represent the everlasting forests that stood here before Lovia was even discovered and still stand now. I still prefer this one but I'll work with the other. Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 15:16, October 23, 2012 (UTC)



Oak Leaf Flag with Bands:

Well I seem to be slightly outnumbered here, heh. HOWEVER IAM GUVNOR SO I SAY THE FIRST! no, we shall have the democratic choice! Long live Sylvania! Hoffmann Kunarian TALK 23:32, October 20, 2012 (UTC)
 * - 77topaz (talk) 23:30, October 19, 2012 (UTC)
 * Happy65
 * --O u WTBsjrief-mich 09:15, October 20, 2012 (UTC)
 * - the fanciest flag so far. The glorious First Consul of Rome (talk) 12:36, October 20, 2012 (UTC)
 * - hard to decide between with and without, but in the end I think that this is best. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 12:45, October 20, 2012 (UTC)
 * Simply brilliant. HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 14:26, October 20, 2012 (UTC)

Deputy governor of Seven
I am aware that I am the only citizen who wants to be deputy governor of Seven and after reading the Constitution Article 8 I realized that in order to be a deputy governor you are required to recover three votes and be nominated, so I think it would be in order for Congress to vote on me becoming the deputy governor or not. --Quarantine Zone (talk) 02:39, October 19, 2012 (UTC)
 * I thought we were going to do a revote in of the other states. If so, we could also open a voting thing for you as Dep. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 17:42, October 19, 2012 (UTC)
 * Well in Kings the vote was decided, so the only problem with the election ended up being the deputy governor of Seven. As far as I know, I'm the only one who wants to run, but I am required to have three votes by the Constitution. --Quarantine Zone (talk) 19:48, October 19, 2012 (UTC)
 * I think that Happy wants to try and become deputy too. Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 20:08, October 19, 2012 (UTC)
 * I think that we are going to have a revote in Seven but with Semyon guaranteed as governor. This way, we'll have a smaller election in which people who are not already a gov or dep in another state and are a resident of Seven can run to become the dep of Seven. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 12:54, October 20, 2012 (UTC)


 * Yes, I am intrested in being the Deputy Governor of Seven. CNP! Happy65 LogoCNP.png

Ceol
i made a Lovia-lioke thing called Ceol. Please have a look and tell me what u think!!!! http://islandnation.wikia.com/wiki/Islandnation_Wiki

Masterire UCD 08:05 am 19/10/12

I think most people know of it by now. :P 77topaz (talk) 10:37, October 19, 2012 (UTC)
 * How can you say such a thing when the most important person has not yet seen the page? Let me honour your little wiki with a visit. The glorious First Consul of Rome (talk) 10:48, October 19, 2012 (UTC)
 * Indeed, I think Dimi's not visited it yet. :) 77topaz (talk) 11:22, October 19, 2012 (UTC)
 * Well played, sir, well played... The glorious First Consul of Rome (talk) 11:37, October 19, 2012 (UTC)

A naughty question
Ummm, I was thinking of establishing a pornographic film production company. Is that acceptable or I've gone too far??--George the Greek (talk) 12:57, October 19, 2012 (UTC)
 * As long as you stick to description and don't try to visualize them with images of what goes on in those movies... you should be fine. Of course, as a member of the conservative CCPL, I would be obliged to be disagree with the choice of films your company would produce. It's an interesting idea, that's for sure. The glorious First Consul of Rome (talk) 13:16, October 19, 2012 (UTC)
 * Don't worry, I won't do anything nasty. But I'd like the opinion of other users, too.--George the Greek (talk) 13:26, October 19, 2012 (UTC)
 * You'll get plenty of opinions, Zorba. The glorious First Consul of Rome (talk) 13:33, October 19, 2012 (UTC)


 * The glorious First Consul of Rome has right. Don't add pictures or movies about, euhm ... pornography. Euh ... yeah, a weird topic. But of course, why not? Wabba The I (talk) 15:05, October 19, 2012 (UTC)
 * I still don't know if I'm gonna make it... I find it a little weird too. Maybe later.--George the Greek (talk) 17:32, October 19, 2012 (UTC)
 * Not a surprise: . Pornography should be illegal - distribution and production. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 17:41, October 19, 2012 (UTC)
 * personally, but overall . —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 20:21, October 19, 2012 (UTC)

Not sure what "Zorba" means. 77topaz (talk) 23:49, October 19, 2012 (UTC)
 * I believe he wants to make immoral films :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 09:17, October 20, 2012 (UTC)


 * Contra but a litle bit neutral. In every country, there are illegal pornographic studios. Why not Lovia? But yeah, I'm against it sometimes! Wabba The I (talk) 10:27, October 20, 2012 (UTC)
 * Not illegal! There are numerous such companies in USA and according to a BBC documentary I recently watched, porn industry is really extensive and profitable.--George the Greek (talk) 12:19, October 20, 2012 (UTC)
 * Of course it's extensive and profitable; it's also profitable to steal from a supermarket and that's extensive as well :P But 'right, I know what you're saying. My Christian background simply can't vote pro :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 12:23, October 20, 2012 (UTC)
 * Last time I checked, this was the Pub and not the Parliament. So we can vote against this as much as we want but unless we make it into a law and take it to the Second Chamber, we have absolutely no ground to forbid George from persuing his plans. However immoral they may be in the eyes of us conservatives. The glorious First Consul of Rome (talk) 12:31, October 20, 2012 (UTC)
 * PS: I am on the subject myself. Not to allow our new friend to start this company would be against the law. Someone needs to be the Devil's advocate in order to make sure things are done according to the (law) book. Even if it's against our book. The glorious First Consul of Rome (talk) 12:34, October 20, 2012 (UTC)

I'm against pornography, but those are because of my Christian views; however, I think we would have to pass some sort of law against it. As far as I'm aware there is no law that can stop someone from making a company or film. --Quarantine Zone (talk) 21:25, October 20, 2012 (UTC)

I didn't actually comment on this before, because I thought my views would be pretty obvious. :P IC I'm opposed, but OOC not, because as Oos says, no-one can stop you creating a page. Though I hardly need say that if there's going to be detailed plot description on the page it'll be deleted. --Semyon 09:47, October 22, 2012 (UTC)

4kant,6FRÅGOR??? 18:45, October 22, 2012 (UTC)

Retroactive undoing of removal of local and sub local governments
What do you guys think of retroactively undoing the removal of local and sub local governments that was done in the 2010 State Reform? Just to clarify, if this can't be retroactive, I'm probably opposed. If it can be retroactive, then what I'm thinking is that mayors (and other government positions of cities) and chairpeople of neighborhoods (and hamlets) will be re-added. The reason for this is that I don't like how we had mayors for over a century and then suddenly in 2010 we decide "we don't need them anymore". It makes no sense. Being in local and sub local government would still just be an extra thing, sort of like the Speaker of the Congress. Yet, it would make us more realistic. Remember, I want this to be retroactive. I know, it might be strange to undo things retroactively, but it'll make more sense if we do. Please consider. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 13:35, October 20, 2012 (UTC)


 * I personally don't like retroactive changes. What the 2010 State Reform could be explained as was the centralisation practiced by the leftist governments, which could be an explanation for why they lost so many votes (that and Yuri retiring) as people realised that they wanted and needed these lower level government offices. We can make a reform again easily that not only includes devolving powers to the states but the inserting of Mayors and such again. And again retroactive changes really don't fit with the idea of Lovia when they are on the user interactive decisions. Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 13:50, October 20, 2012 (UTC)

Well, I'd say most of us agree that it messed up history. Again, the "Even though we've had them for over a century, mayors are a waste of space!" thing just makes no sense. It would just be strange to get rid after being in existence so long. I could settle for a non-retroactive change, but I would strongly prefer to have it be retroactive. I can understand the deletion of the state courts and state police after the centralization of Lovia in 2008, but getting rid of chairpeople and especially mayors is a stretch, and I would like to see them back without a break in their history. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 13:56, October 20, 2012 (UTC)

I think this is a good idea. it does seem a bit weird to have mayors for so long and them stop them. Besides, most cities i know have local government. Daembrales (talk) 17:37, October 20, 2012 (UTC)

I don't see a reason for the local governments though... I see your point, but I don't think that its valid enough of a reason. We could have Congress vote on it, or have each state decide individually. That would show what everyone thinks of the idea. --Quarantine Zone (talk) 21:21, October 20, 2012 (UTC)

I don't agree. The entire mayor system was a mess. The free functions didn't work out: chairmen were fired by mayors, by governors, and by the king... And there really was no need for them. In most states, there only was one town, so the mayor had exactly the same role as the governor. What we should do: reinforce the position of the governor. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 08:22, October 21, 2012 (UTC)

That still doesn't fix the random removal of over a century of mayors. Also, I just want them to be a position for show--not really do much, but just to keep realisticness. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 01:45, October 22, 2012 (UTC)

We should stick to the ceremonial role f.e. in Oceana, then I'm pro: mayors never really had executive, but just advisory roles in the communities they lead. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 13:30, October 22, 2012 (UTC)

Charleston Design
Hello everybody. It's Professor Dave Leskromento here from Charleston University. As part of a community project, I would like to ask you to take part in a Logo and Seal design project. There are only two rules, 1, it must have a castillo tower on it and 2, if you are designing a seal, it must say Charleston University on it. Also, swearing is not allowed on either the seal or flag. Now you know the rules, go ahead and be creative.

Note: These are examples and therefore the seal does not say Charleston University and they do not have a Castillo Tower on them.

Flag entries
Since the university is in Charleston, the Castillo Tower symbol featured on the town seal should probably be featured on the university seal etc. Also, why does there need to a penguin? 77topaz (talk) 00:07, October 21, 2012 (UTC)

Agreed. A penguin is not very Lovian è. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 01:10, October 21, 2012 (UTC)

I don't speak limburgish very well, you know. Happy65

You'll learn it :P But yeah, I agree I don't understand the penguin too. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 08:24, October 21, 2012 (UTC)

I changed that. I was planning to open a big department for research in Antarctica on penguins but I decided to not do that as it would waste too much money.Happy65

I use è to replace "after all" or "you see". —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 01:39, October 22, 2012 (UTC)

Yeah. That's the only thing I knew in Limburgish. Happy65

LAP + LDP = SLP?
Hey, I was just thinking about merging LAP and LDP to create a more general "Social Liberal Party". The reason I left the LAP alive for so long because I was still hoping on Percival and Lars to return, but it's clear now that they're gone probably forever. Would anyone mind if I merged them, and possibly the Lovian Alliance if Horton agrees, into a unified party? —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 01:10, October 21, 2012 (UTC)
 * That would be a good thing to do indeed :) --O u WTBsjrief-mich 08:51, October 21, 2012 (UTC)


 * I agree. Shouldn't we vote on this at the Forum:Second Chamber though? Happy65 LogoCNP.png
 * No, I think it would be undemocratic if Congress would decide our political parties :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 08:57, October 21, 2012 (UTC)


 * I understand, so party agreement. Should we do it like this so we can have both sides permission for a merger?
 * {| border="0" cellpadding="1" cellspacing="1" class="article-table" style="width: 500px; "

! scope="col"|Name ! scope="col"|Leader ! scope="col"|Confirmiation from leader
 * Liberal Arts Party
 * Lars Washington [1]
 * Yes [2]
 * Liberal Democratic Party
 * TimeMaster [3]
 * Yes [4]
 * Lovian Alliance
 * Horton
 * Unconfirmed
 * }
 * [1] Lars Washington is gone forever so the desicion is down to TimeMaster
 * [2] Leaders please change this to yes if you confirm.
 * [4] Leaders please change this to yes if you confirm.
 * [3] TimeMaster is the leader of both, so once he has confirmed confirmation on both sides, the social arts party will officialy have merged.
 * [2] Leaders please change this to yes if you confirm.
 * [4] Leaders please change this to yes if you confirm.
 * [3] TimeMaster is the leader of both, so once he has confirmed confirmation on both sides, the social arts party will officialy have merged.


 * If there's a problem with this, please tell me, I'm pretty new around here. Happy65 LogoCNP.png
 * Yeah, I think it's up to TM really. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 10:00, October 21, 2012 (UTC)
 * Yes, Happy I know it may seem a bit wierd but you'll get used to things soon. You see Lars isn't here anymore and Timemaster has practically assumed command of the LAP as well as the LDP so he can do what he wishes really. Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 10:04, October 21, 2012 (UTC)

What a cute table. :3 Anyway, I'll merge them now. Still waiting on confirmation from Horton, though. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 12:58, October 21, 2012 (UTC)

Realistic maps
One thing that always bothered me is how the interactive "maps" that we have in almost every hamlet to city on this wiki each contain far less homes than enough to house the local populous. Are 80% of Lovian citizens homeless, or do all of the player characters just happen to be living within a three-block radius of each other. I feel that we should expand and place more homes/minor apartment buildings in each area to expand and be more realistic. Instead of having each sign read "for sale" if it hasn't been claimed by a player character, I think it would be best to leave them blank until a player claims them, and if not, we just assume it is the residence of some NPC. It wouldn't be too much trouble for me too help out in large part if you guys agree with what I am saying. — Christopher Costello  (Pikapi • Chat  • What's up ) 19:57, October 21, 2012 (UTC)

Interactive maps are another relic from the age of Libertas where interactive companies, such as Nimmanswolk, were commonplace. They don't make sense and we have many more fake people than real people here, but they are interactive, which is rather nice. I don't think we should add more plots; instead, we should just only consider the streetplan of these cities to be realistic, and not the people living in them. Though, that's not to mean we need to prohibit giving NPCs a home on the map. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 20:00, October 21, 2012 (UTC)

I'd keep the current situation. It's not workable to create maps on a real scale. I tried it in Reptin and it didn't work out :) --O u WTBsjrief-mich 08:41, October 22, 2012 (UTC)

If it was my choice, there are not maps like this. Pikapi has right: most of them are inhabited by users (which have already three homes sometimes) or sometimes not real characters. Sometimes shops, parks, companies ... but it is really unrealistic. Maybe we just have to do that only residents can get a home in a map? Wabba The I (talk) 17:00, October 22, 2012 (UTC)

Very much. Now we can still give addresses for companies, which will be impossible then. And: changing all these maps is going to be a hell of a task and actually they'll become useless, because they will all contain the same residential spaces... --O u WTBsjrief-mich 13:02, October 23, 2012 (UTC)
 * Iam to the cirrnt maps, very unrealistic Pierlot McCrooke 14:36, October 23, 2012 (UTC)


 * No, I mean shops and houses for users and companies and parks and what ever but not houses for 'not user-characters'. But who cares, let it be. Wabba The I (talk) 15:28, October 23, 2012 (UTC)
 * Then I agree with you, also the who cares part :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 16:43, October 23, 2012 (UTC)

Some Polling for the Lovian Times
I thought it might be interesting to do some polling, we haven't done it in a while and I think it might be interesting to do it in the old fashioned style of having the parties with at least 5 seats and their leaders as options in these polls as well as the rest in other. Feel free to poll, they are anonymous and will be put in the Lovian Times later on with a full long and well detailed analysis. DO NOT EDIT POLLS FOR ANY REASON, EVEN IF THERE IS A SPELLING MISTAKE.

Elections


 * If a Federal Election happened tomorrow who would you give a major vote to?
 * Labour Party - 3 Votes
 * Conservative Christian Party of Lovia - 8 Votes
 * Social Liberal Party - 2 Votes
 * Positive Lovia - 2 Votes
 * Conservative Nationalist Party - 3 Votes
 * Other - 3 Votes


 * If a Federal Election happened tomorrow who would you give a minor/support vote to?
 * Labour Party - 5 Votes
 * Conservative Christian Party of Lovia - 3 Votes
 * Social Liberal Party - 5 Votes
 * Positive Lovia - 2 Votes
 * Conservative Nationalist Party - 5 Votes
 * Other - 1 Vote


 * If a Federal Election happened tomorrow who would you most want to be Prime Minister?
 * Marcus Villanova - 2 Votes
 * Oos Wes Ilava - 12 Votes
 * William Krosby - 3 Votes
 * Christopher Costello - 2 Votes
 * Lukas Hoffmann - 2 Votes
 * Other - 1 Vote

General Issues


 * Which party do you most trust on the issue of the economy?
 * Labour Party - 2 Votes
 * Conservative Christian Party of Lovia - 7 Votes
 * Social Liberal Party - 3 Votes
 * Positive Lovia - 2 Votes
 * Conservative Nationalist Party - 2 Votes
 * Other - 3 Votes


 * Which party do you most trust on the issue of state powers?
 * Labour Party - 3 Votes
 * Conservative Christian Party of Lovia - 6 Votes
 * Social Liberal Party - 2 Votes
 * Positive Lovia - 1 Vote
 * Conservative Nationalist Party - 5 Votes
 * Other - 2 Votes


 * Which party do you most trust on the issue of health and welfare?
 * Labour Party - 5 Votes
 * Conservative Christian Party of Lovia - 4 Votes
 * Social Liberal Party - 4 Votes
 * Positive Lovia - 2 Votes
 * Conservative Nationalist Party - 2 Votes
 * Other - 2 Votes


 * Which party do you most trust on the issue of transportation?
 * Labour Party - 2 Votes
 * Conservative Christian Party of Lovia - 7 Votes
 * Social Liberal Party - 3 Votes
 * Positive Lovia - 1 Vote
 * Conservative Nationalist Party - 3 Votes
 * Other - 2 Votes

State Issues


 * Which party do you most trust on the issue of the Oceana overpopulation?
 * Labour Party - 1 Vote
 * Conservative Christian Party of Lovia - 12 Votes
 * Social Liberal Party - 1 Vote
 * Positive Lovia - 1 Vote
 * Conservative Nationalist Party - 1 Vote
 * Other - 3 Votes


 * Which party do you most trust on the issue of Train Village repair?
 * Labour Party - 3 Votes
 * Conservative Christian Party of Lovia - 4 Votes
 * Social Liberal Party - 0 Votes
 * Positive Lovia - 1 Vote
 * Conservative Nationalist Party - 9 Votes
 * Other - 2 Votes

Approval


 * Are you happy with the way the current government is operating?
 * Very happy - 1 Vote
 * Happy - 6 Votes
 * Indifferent - 4 Votes
 * Unhappy - 7 Votes
 * Very unhappy - 0 Votes


 * Are you happy with the way the current Prime Minister is running the government?
 * Very happy - 1 Vote
 * Happy - 9 Votes
 * Indifferent - 6 Votes
 * Unhappy - 2 Votes
 * Very unhappy - 0 Votes


 * Do you think someone else could do a better job at running the government?
 * Yes - 2 Votes
 * Indifferent - 11 Votes
 * No - 6 Votes

Comments
Throw your comments here! Hoffmann Kunarian TALK 22:27, October 22, 2012 (UTC)

I've started it off, please vote, we need to know your opinions! :D Hoffmann Kunarian TALK 22:43, October 22, 2012 (UTC)

You can guess who I voted for. I also support the retroactive removal of TV for this reason: the name sucks and it's just a strange town. And then we can create a new town in its place with a new culture and new name. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 22:49, October 22, 2012 (UTC)


 * Definitely an idea, but I will be doing something about Train Village as Governor, it's a major issue I want to deal with and will most likely include making it smaller and more focused. Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 22:51, October 22, 2012 (UTC)
 * Well my votes for other were for MCCP, which is kinda CCPL, but I put votes into other on some of those.

--Quarantine Zone (talk) 22:57, October 22, 2012 (UTC)

You know this stuff is already getting interesting :D I can't wait to see the polls at the end of the week. Hoffmann Kunarian TALK 23:06, October 22, 2012 (UTC)

I voted mostly PL, but the CNP, SLP, and CCPL were some of my other choices. Also, thanks Matt. — Christopher Costello  (Pikapi • Chat  • What's up ) 23:26, October 22, 2012 (UTC)


 * Glad you voted Costello! Also I haven't mentioned but I'll probably be analysing the current positions of parties individually with the Lovian Times article. Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 23:31, October 22, 2012 (UTC)
 * I'm going to Close the polls a little earlier than I said, seeming as almost 20 people have voted now, they'll close at 10 :) Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 16:00, October 23, 2012 (UTC)

Interesting to see most people vote CCPL in the first poll and in the issue polls, where they have most or second most votes everywhere :P 4kant,6FRÅGOR??? 17:11, October 23, 2012 (UTC)
 * Probably the center position I guess :) --O u WTBsjrief-mich 17:21, October 23, 2012 (UTC)

Cool poll! i voted for SLP for most things, but Labour, CNP, CCPL, or other on other issues. Daembrales (talk) 20:49, October 23, 2012 (UTC)


 * I know it's just like the ones in real life :D and I'm glad if we got your votes anywhere. I'm just closing the polls now so you got here just in time :) Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 21:01, October 23, 2012 (UTC)
 * Interesting. Unhappy with government, but the people trust the CCPL on most things. The elections will be very interesting this year. Marcus/Michael Villanova 00:19, October 24, 2012 (UTC)
 * I wouldn't say unhappy, I'd say people have highly mixed opinions, but people like Oos.and a large amount think that someone else wouldn't be able to do a better job. I think this poll raises some questions on what people could be unhappy about though. Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 01:10, October 24, 2012 (UTC)
 * Ow no, I vote that somebody could perhaps (well... probably would be better :P) do it better than me :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 08:30, October 24, 2012 (UTC)
 * I think humility will only make people want you to be Prime Minister more. :L Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 11:08, October 24, 2012 (UTC)
 * Unhappy with government? The most popular choice was 'unhappy,' yes, but only if you don't count 'very happy' together with 'happy,' which is dodgy statistics. --Semyon 12:47, October 24, 2012 (UTC)


 * I know, it's strange. I wonder what the problem is Happy65 LogoCNP.png

Islam
Our new co-patriot, Rakham Tarik Al-Asmari, got me interested in the Muslim minority of Lovia. There is LMB, but no space for a mosque. What shall we do my friends??--George the Greek (talk) 22:10, October 24, 2012 (UTC)


 * Government shall do nothing, the muslim community however can gather money together and build their own Mosque, it doesn't have to be in the city, according to my statistics they are mostly in Noble City but a reasonable amount reside in Train Village and Charleston, so really you could set it up in a place where the majority could easily worship, or have a southern and northern mosque. Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 22:46, October 24, 2012 (UTC)


 * Well, the mosque should be in the city (I was thinking of a federal estate). Anyway, where can I find statistics about the Muslims??--George the Greek (talk) 22:57, October 24, 2012 (UTC)


 * I was thinking Algebra (being a Muslim corporation and all), would sponser the construction of a grand mosque in a purpose-built town for the Muslim population in Kings. Of course I forgot who was the governor even after Topaz told me... >.< ((ლ( (ಠ益ಠ) ((ლ( 22:59, October 24, 2012 (UTC)
 * Statistics about muslims in Sylvania are right in front of me and will soon be on the census page. You can't build it on a federal estate, Lovia has a seperation of church and state and so I couldn't approve it, but I'll look for a suitable place. And that's a great idea Viva, then you can go the whole mile with it. Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 23:04, October 24, 2012 (UTC)


 * Great. I'll get to work on it soon. ((ლ( (ಠ益ಠ) ((ლ( 23:08, October 24, 2012 (UTC)
 * Ummm, I think there are about 500 Muslims in Lovia and not all of them in one single state. The mosque can't be enormous.--George the Greek (talk) 23:11, October 24, 2012 (UTC)
 * The relgion in Lovia page is outdated George. there are 2,000 Muslims in Sylvania alone, barely any in Oceana, 500 in Seven and no idea about the other states. And choose somewhere in Artista, it's the best place, then you can really make it quite decorated and elaborate if you want and that way it'll fit the neighborhoods style. In Artista and the adjacent neighborhoods there are around 750 Muslims which is almost half the Muslim population in Noble city so I'd say it's a pretty good place for a mosque. Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 23:15, October 24, 2012 (UTC)
 * Why so many? Where are they from?? And there's no space in Artista, unless we "sucrifice" a house.--George the Greek (talk) 23:27, October 24, 2012 (UTC)
 * Why so many? That is barely any 2.7% of the population in Sylvania is nothing, in fact it's quite standard considering our immigration policy. They mainly come from Europe. Do you have a problem with there being that many Muslims? and there's plenty of room in Artista, the houses are all up for grabs and then you change the colour to administrative and label it as being owned by the Lovian Muslim Brotherhood. Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 23:50, October 24, 2012 (UTC)
 * Well, I would like to explain that the Muslim population is offered an incentive to move to the planned town for them. Would you say $15-20,000 US is a good enough reason to uproot and move into a town with fellow believers? ((ლ( (ಠ益ಠ) ((ლ( 23:46, October 24, 2012 (UTC)
 * I don't know if they would exactly, Lovia doesn't exactly discriminate and they've probably lived there for a generation at least and built a strong community in their areas like they have in other countries. Plus I didn't even know such a place had been approved yet. Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 23:50, October 24, 2012 (UTC)
 * No, Kunarian, I've got no problem with the Muslims, I'm working a lot on them right now. Also, I think there's no reason to establish a Muslim neighbourhood or something. Dear Viva, we should cooperate on that. I don't know what time is it in your countries, but I'm gonna sleep right now. Bye!--George the Greek (talk) 00:15, October 25, 2012 (UTC)
 * I think you might have misunderstood me and jumped the gun, because I asked you if you had a problem with there being THAT MANY muslims as in whether you had a problem with the statistics, I wasn't for a moment suggesting that you had a problem with Muslims themselves, and I'm sorry if that is the way it came across. And it's very late in my country too, but I'm a night person, goodnight enjoy the rest. Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 00:22, October 25, 2012 (UTC)

@Kunarian: Yeah in Oceana it's neglectable, about 75 people or so :P @Artista: It's not the best choice. Artista is like Bohemian neighborhood. I'm not sure whether that would work out well with a muslim community :P There's is still more than enough room in the central south area of Mandarin Village, several federal properties in Trading Quarter, and empty areas in Little Frisco. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 09:39, October 25, 2012 (UTC)


 * That's understandable. I think mandarin village is the next best choice personally, I mean it's quite hard to place muslims, they are such a minority. :P Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 09:54, October 25, 2012 (UTC)
 * Hahaha :P For inspiration on where to place certain demographic groups: you could look at what kind of people bought their homes and where :) F.e. if you find a house bought by Semyon, that neighborhood could have a higher number of Russians than average :) --O u WTBsjrief-mich 10:27, October 25, 2012 (UTC)
 * In order to decide where Muslims reside, you have to work out where they originally migrated from. The only main groups I can think of are the Bosnians and a few Russians of Tatar ancestry in Novosevensk - nevertheless, there's likely a Arab minority in the large cities, including people like Ahmad Benzador and Ali Suleimani. --Semyon 10:56, October 25, 2012 (UTC)
 * @OWTB: Haha, in that case we'd have lots of Swedes in Plains! 4kant,6FRÅGOR??? 11:46, October 25, 2012 (UTC)
 * I don't oppose Swedish being a regional language in Lovia to be honest :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 11:56, October 25, 2012 (UTC)
 * On the part of where to put the mosque, where do I build it? ((ლ( (ಠ益ಠ) ((ლ( 18:07, October 27, 2012 (UTC)
 * I will set out a place in the East River neighborhood I'm building in Newhaven. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 18:23, October 27, 2012 (UTC)
 * That would be the third new proposal-neighbourhood this week. :P (Semyon and Horton are also building new neighbourhoods in their respective states) 77topaz (talk) 20:30, October 27, 2012 (UTC)

i think we should have a french population in lovia. Daembrales (talk) 00:56, October 26, 2012 (UTC)
 * Why? The French were in America because they had colonies. The didn't have a colony in Lovia :) --O u WTBsjrief-mich 08:11, October 26, 2012 (UTC)
 * You could say the same thing about the Dutch, to be fair. I think it'd be nice to have some francophones. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 18:23, October 27, 2012 (UTC)
 * Check out the Sylvanian census there's a reasonable french population and a good amount of french speakers due to Beglian Walloons. Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 20:15, October 27, 2012 (UTC)
 * Not really, considering Lovia was found by a Flemish guy... --O u WTBsjrief-mich 09:42, October 28, 2012 (UTC)
 * But that's why there are many more Dutch speakers. Don't worry I'm not changing history on that matter. I'm just pointing out that the french aren't exactly a minority like say muslims are. Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 13:12, October 28, 2012 (UTC)

Sports
We should reorganize our sports, my friends. The soccer league seems good (though not perfect), but what about the other sports? Boules is our national sport, but it isn't developed and basketball too. Recently, Happy65 established LIHA. What should we do??--George the Greek (talk) 13:02, October 25, 2012 (UTC)

Inactive
Just for say I am inactive for five days! Wabba The I (talk) 17:43, October 25, 2012 (UTC)
 * Alright, we'll see you back then! Have fun! :) --O u WTBsjrief-mich 18:27, October 25, 2012 (UTC)


 * Yeah. Have fun and enjoy yourself :P Happy65 LogoCNP.png
 * Assuming you're on holiday, have fun! If not, well, try and have fun anyway. :P --Semyon 20:13, October 25, 2012 (UTC)
 * I believe Belgium has its holidays this or next week, so... :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 20:31, October 25, 2012 (UTC)

Bus lines
Alright, time to get something done :P I almost finished the Oceana bus service (apart from Scotland-Overbanken because Overbanken has not been finished yet :P). It would be great if we could start working on the train service, but before that can be done, we need the bus services in the other states (most notably: Sylvania and Kings) to be finished as well. So, if the local governors could do that, it would be great. If you are not willing to do this, then I'll take over, because I want this to be done :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 08:46, October 26, 2012 (UTC)


 * You know I want to work on this so I'll try and get things started today and done before the end of the weekend. I'm glad we are finally starting to get some small details sorted :D Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 11:03, October 26, 2012 (UTC)
 * That's the spirit! :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 11:15, October 26, 2012 (UTC)

Some observations
77topaz (talk) 09:26, October 26, 2012 (UTC)
 * There are no shopping centers or apartment buildings anywhere in Seven.
 * Kinley and Sofasi are almost completely full.
 * The Jamaican Embassy in Lovia is referenced in the Foreign Relations article as being a building in Downtown. There is no such building; the Embassy currently, effectively has no location.
 * Canterbury, Kinley has sea on its west side, while Old Kinley, located directly south of it, has sea on its south side and south side only, with streets leading off to the west. The only explanation I can create is that there must be a peninsula to the west of Old Kinley.
 * The kinley issue is addressed to. If we'd place a mall in the new neighborhood, both issues will be fixed :)
 * Yeah.. I'm afraid we don't have enough space for all embassies, definitely not in Downtown NC. The local Governor should take a look at it.
 * Yeah, I agree. Semyon can fix this :) --O u WTBsjrief-mich 10:20, October 26, 2012 (UTC)
 * What do you mean by "the issue is addressed to"? Is Semyon already going to give Kinley a new neighbourhood, or do you mean something else? Also, can I add GoldenDisc to the shopping center maps? 77topaz (talk) 10:43, October 26, 2012 (UTC)
 * @addressed to: yes, we're working on a new neighborhood in Seven :)
 * @goldendisc: sure you can! :) --O u WTBsjrief-mich 10:46, October 26, 2012 (UTC)
 * Does the Seven neighbourhood have a page already? Also, some of this page should probably be archived. 77topaz (talk) 10:52, October 26, 2012 (UTC)
 * The Jamaican embassy is not referenced to being anywhere on the Foreign Relations article, it is just mentioned to be in Lovia. I'll have a look around for where it is. Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 11:26, October 26, 2012 (UTC)


 * I've searched a while and I can't find it. Happy65 LogoCNP.png
 * Maybe we could place the Jamaican embassy in the new neighbourhood. 77topaz (talk) 21:35, October 26, 2012 (UTC)
 * I personally think we should have no Jamaican embassy. It's too minor of a country. We should simply have embassies with the active wikinations and some (10 maybe?) major real countries, such as China and America. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 21:40, October 26, 2012 (UTC)
 * I agree with everything. Personally I think Lovia should have seperate embassies to the USA, China (as Time said), Several south american countries (Columbia, Ecuador, Peru, Chile, Argentina and Brazil, basically our big trading countries), Mexico and Japan. These are the countries I think are important to Lovia and the ones we actually trade with and so are the countries that affect Lovia. They'll be in the foreign affairs section of my manifesto too. Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 22:31, October 26, 2012 (UTC)
 * There's the Embassy Center, the Pacific Tower and the Brunant and Maores. I don't know of any other already-existing embassies. 77topaz (talk) 22:34, October 26, 2012 (UTC)
 * I think we can make new Embassies for the important nations I listed then move other minor but more important than the other minor nations embassies into the Embassy center. However Brunant and Maores are important culturally so we should leave them as seperate embassies. And may I just add that your Pacific tower idea was a great way of adding in embassies without taking up a ton of space. Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 22:54, October 26, 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks! So where do you think we should put the new embassies? 77topaz (talk) 02:09, October 27, 2012 (UTC)
 * In the two embassy centers, probably. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 02:20, October 27, 2012 (UTC)
 * They're both kind of full already :P 77topaz (talk) 02:37, October 27, 2012 (UTC)
 * Then, we can make another.  Happy65   Talk CNP  LogoCNP.png 18:28, October 27, 2012 (UTC)
 * Indeed, that's what I'm doing. Currently it is called Amazon Tower, but I'm planning to move it to Mandarin Village and rename it the Eastern Star Tower, with primarily Asian embassies. 77topaz (talk) 20:28, October 27, 2012 (UTC)
 * Can I do so? 77topaz (talk) 01:52, October 28, 2012 (UTC)
 * I think the Jordan Luton stuff distracted everyone, so I'll wait a bit longer. 77topaz (talk) 03:39, October 29, 2012 (UTC)
 * Okay, I'm taking it nobody disagrees. 77topaz (talk) 03:32, October 30, 2012 (UTC)

InterBus Is back
Thanks to Villanova Inc. People around Lovia now have the right to cheap transportation and to go anywhere. Check out the new InterBus! Marcus/Michael Villanova 22:01, October 27, 2012 (UTC)


 * Well considering the situation you have in Lovia, I'd say that your company must be paying people nothing unless the monthly pass is a rip off. assuming you have a full standard bus that runs one line a day you end up with and an average estimated income of 146.25 lovian dollars (obviously more for populated areas and less for unpopulated areas), considering that one line requires 6 til around 7 operations (actual working time is around 12 hours), the driver has a minimum wage of (for one day) 168 lovian dollars, causing an instant loss. And then you don't even consider paying for fuel or mechanics. You've got to raise prices or cut costs if you want to do things simply.


 * Other than that though it's a great company that's reasonable in how much it makes although the choice to have the dangerous bendy buses is questionable. I hope to watch this company develop. Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 22:15, October 27, 2012 (UTC)




 * Oh Costello :L Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 22:52, October 27, 2012 (UTC)
 * I understood wait you said, I increased the rate to 2.50 and the montly pass 130 dollars. Lets say 20 people get on a bus paying 2.50, 50 dollars. Bus driver gets paid 12.00 an hour, 38 dolars left. Gasoline would be about 20 dollars, 18 left and the mechanics 11.50 an hour i'm left with 6.50 in profit. Not good but Villanova Inc. turns a large profit on other things. Marcus/Michael Villanova 01:34, October 28, 2012 (UTC)
 * It's an improvement, however those drivers and mechanics are still getting paid dirt cheap (plus the mechanic must be paid 12.00 an hour, it's in the law) and that Gasoline goes at about L$4.71 per gallon thanks to US inflation and pumped up prices. However if as you say, Villanova Inc turns a big profit then at worst you could subsidise the deficit with profits from elsewhere. Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 01:40, October 28, 2012 (UTC)
 * Still with that let's say 13.50 for bus drivers and mechanicss totalling 27 dollars and 20 dollars for gasoline, im guessing at that figure because i have no idea. There is still 3 dollars left over. Go wild. Marcus/Michael Villanova 01:52, October 28, 2012 (UTC)

Wikia sidebar
Hey, just wondering, was the Wikia sidebar disabled on this wiki or is it something that I can't find on my personal css. I really don't care, I'm just asking because I can't find out why it doesn't appear for me. I just want to know so that I can find out how to enable it for myself. — Christopher Costello  (Pikapi • Chat  • What's up ) 18:38, October 28, 2012 (UTC)

Are you using Monobook or Wikia Style? If you're talking about wikia style, I think wikia disabled it two years ago. If you are talking about Monobook, it should still be there. On Wikia Style, it was moved to the top center.  Happy65   Talk CNP   07:35, October 29, 2012 (UTC)


 * No, I mean the sidebar on the right that is part of Oasis. — Beer.png <font color=#2E6FFD>Christopher Costello (<font color=#2E6FFD>Pikapi • <font color=#2E6FFD>Chat  • <font color=#2E6FFD>What's up ) 13:57, October 29, 2012 (UTC)


 * I don't seem to have Oasis on my settings. I only have monobook and Wikia Style. Sorry. <font color="Teal"> Happy65  <font color="Aqua"> Talk CNP LogoCNP.png 08:17, October 30, 2012 (UTC)

Settlement for Location
Apparently the settlement of User:Crystalbeastdeck09/Hamlet Maps is not wanted in Sylvania. Would any state like to take this up? It&apos;s a nice farming/college town with hard workers and well educated people. Marcus/Michael Villanova 21:50, October 29, 2012 (UTC)


 * Marcus I&apos;m sorry, I just want to maintain a certain level of quality and realism. On top of that I&apos;ve drawn up maps and settlements, I wouldn&apos;t mind if you realistically expanded on the settlements I&apos;ve set. If you want to keep it completely your own however I think planning a new place for the settlement is for the best. Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 22:02, October 29, 2012 (UTC)
 * I understand now in hindsight, that it would make more sense in Seven or Oceana. Marcus/Michael Villanova 22:14, October 29, 2012 (UTC)
 * They do tend to have a better fit for the kind of culture you&apos;re going for. Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 22:16, October 29, 2012 (UTC)
 * Not Oceana, the town is lutheran, that would give yet another point to fight about :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 09:45, October 31, 2012 (UTC)

I like the town but not the name and the seal myself. It could fit in Clymene, Kings, or Sylvania. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 22:30, October 29, 2012 (UTC)

If kings wants it i&apos;ll propose it with a new seal and located in kings. Marcus/Michael Villanova 13:24, October 31, 2012 (UTC)

Wikia nations
Where can I find all the fictional countries in wiki (not only those in UWN)??--George the Greek (talk) 22:09, October 29, 2012 (UTC)

I don't think a single page exists for that, currently. But I could give you a list of the ones I know. 77topaz (talk) 02:33, October 30, 2012 (UTC)

Visit Ceol its a wiki nation. CEOL (Masterire talk 09:20, October 30, 2012 (UTC)

I just made a list of wikinations see here. 4kant,6FRÅGOR??? 19:11, October 30, 2012 (UTC)

Poll: Nova Times
Do you support the State Reform written by Kunarian: Yes, I support it Yes, but it could have some changes No Marcus/Michael Villanova 23:24, October 29, 2012 (UTC)

If reforms pass.
If Reform passes here is how the state legisatures would look like: (plus a message) I think this looks nice, again i&apos;m in favor of the, one person - two states. Primarliy to solve the problem in Seven. I trust Seymon, great guy but maybe I want to help out there if I live there. And Seymon maybe in Oceana. Basically I think it would be a small solution to a problem. Marcus/Michael Villanova 13:22, October 30, 2012 (UTC)
 * Clymene
 * Horton - 11 Seats
 * George The Greek - 9
 * Kings
 * Krosby - 12 seats
 * Wabba - 8 seats
 * Oceana
 * Illava - 14 seats
 * Bart K - 6 seats
 * Seven
 * Seymon - 20 seats
 * Sylvania
 * Marcus - 8 seats
 * Kunarian - 9 seats
 * 77Topaz - 3 seats

Looks good. I think the councils are a good idea except the fact that for most there is just 1 or 2 people per state. That means the person with the most seats in the 1 or 2 seat states are guaranteed to win so it is no use. <font color="Teal"> Happy65  <font color="Aqua"> Talk CNP   13:28, October 30, 2012 (UTC)

Do you support people being able to stand in two states: Yes No

To solve this problem once and for all. Hoffmann Kunarian TALK 16:44, October 30, 2012 (UTC)


 * There doesn&apos;t seem to be enough popular support sorry Marcus. Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 21:46, October 30, 2012 (UTC)
 * But not against, only six people or votes, were cast. Again move to the first chamber for larger discussion. Marcus/Michael Villanova 21:56, October 30, 2012 (UTC)
 * For a constitutional ammendment, enough support is overwhelming support. And while people support the bill in its current format, it seems they would not if people where allowed to stand in more than one state and we must bow to the will of the people on this. I will move it to the first chamber when I think it is ready, finishing touches are being done, I will not rush it in to find one thing that is not right. Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 22:05, October 30, 2012 (UTC)

I was a supporter before it was cool
Check User:Crystalbeastdeck09/Politics It&apos;s all about me wanting to support state&apos;s rights and councils back in 2011. Before it was cool too ^_^ Marcus/Michael Villanova 22:14, October 31, 2012 (UTC)


 * Heh, still not a Confederate though :L Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 22:19, October 31, 2012 (UTC)