Forum:The Pub

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 * We also recently archived all history here.

Welcome to The Pub! This is the general meeting place in Lovia. Inhabitants can make public announcements, have a friendly chat with some copatriots, or discuss crucial issues in Lovian politics or business. Speeches can also be made at Speakers' Corner. All archives of The Pub can be found here.

Update Mid-day 1/8
Or in standing:
 * Krosby - 12
 * Costello - 7
 * Ilava - 18
 * Torres - 4
 * Abrahams - 11
 * Villanova - 19
 * Hoffmann - 8
 * McCrooke - 6
 * Donia - 2
 * Breyev - 3
 * An - 5
 * McComb - 5
 * Opat' - 2
 * Lewis - 5
 * 1) Villanova - 19
 * 2) Ilava - 18
 * 3) Krosby - 12
 * 4) Abrahams - 11
 * 5) Hoffmann - 8
 * 6) Costello - 7
 * 7) McCrooke - 6
 * 8) Lewis - 5
 * 9) An - 5
 * 10) McComb - 5
 * 11) Torres - 4
 * 12) Breyev - 3
 * 13) Opat' - 2
 * 14) Donia - 2

News: Everyone has at least two votes and Ilava takes the lead with seventeen votes, ahead of Villanova's sixteen. Krosby is third, with eleven, and Costello and Abrahams are tied for fourth with ten. And we have exactly 100 votes cast! —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 16:11, January 8, 2012 (UTC)
 * Just as I imagined... Costello does well and so does Positive Lovia as a whole, but their expectation for having +50% of seats is just impossible. They overreached and expected too much. Just like CCPL in the January 2011 elections, when we expected to win and lost a very important seat (Bucu's) right at the end. Congrats for Oos, he does great! The glorious First Consul of Rome 16:15, January 8, 2012 (UTC)
 * Literally no one that is not in the Coalition is casting votes for them. I'm not sure what is happening, but all the other people are making so much gains from votes from inactive people that it's crazy. They DID have 50 seats in the early elections. They're down to 22 now. (yes, 22...) —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 16:17, January 8, 2012 (UTC)
 * Oh, and if Yuri decided to be a jerk and move the red line up one person on the last day of the 2011 elections, then Edward would've gotten eliminated as well you would've only had two people in Congress. :D —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 16:18, January 8, 2012 (UTC)

I'm quite comfortable that the conservative Christian voice will still be heard this year. At first I was afraid we wouldn't make it, but as long as I keep at least my 16 seats I'm very happy :) Unfortunately, Donia still does not get passed the 3 votes, but he can count on my support (as can Semyon). --O u WTBsjrief-mich 16:19, January 8, 2012 (UTC)
 * I am still waiting for you and Semyon to give me a vote, Oos. Is this some sorta political strategy I don't understand to vote so late or what? The glorious First Consul of Rome 16:26, January 8, 2012 (UTC)
 * Probably I'm just too lazy to vote without time pressure :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 16:30, January 8, 2012 (UTC)
 * Probably. The glorious First Consul of Rome 16:34, January 8, 2012 (UTC)
 * PL/LDP - 33
 * LP/CPL.nm - 39
 * Other - 28
 * Marcus/Michael Villanova 16:44, January 8, 2012 (UTC)

The statistics seem wrong. McCrooke only has 4 votes, not 8. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 18:28, January 8, 2012 (UTC)
 * I know I didn't put 8 for him... Did someone change it? Anyway, it's fixed. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 19:00, January 8, 2012 (UTC)
 * Interesting to see the left, centre and right factions are relatively equal in size. Don't recall that that's happened before. --Semyon 20:22, January 8, 2012 (UTC)
 * No, it used to be like 75% Left and 25% Right :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 04:17, January 9, 2012 (UTC)

Warning!


...to become addictive ...to hurt ...to kill!

Luckily the Labour Party has plans to combat this evil. If elected into office, we will: If you only get one thing out of this it is to VOTE LABOUR and VOTE JUSTIN ABRAHAMS HORTON11 :  •  22:34, January 9, 2012 (UTC)
 * Increase tariffs on cigarette manufacturing and imports
 * enforce mandatory health warning labels on cigarette cases
 * increase penalties for selling cigarettes to minors

Agreed, except the minor-specific thing is kind of weird. It doesn't damage their lungs anymore than it does to an adult. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 22:42, January 9, 2012 (UTC)

Remember "19, it's the law". And the earlier you give someone a smoke, the earlier they're likely to die. HORTON11 : •  22:47, January 9, 2012 (UTC)

So why not just expand it to everyone? And I don't believe someone will die more than a small amount earlier than a normal smoker would if they start earlier. And are you sure 19 is the law? —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 22:54, January 9, 2012 (UTC)
 * Yeah, you can't live to a ripe old age and still smoke... Sorry, but that's just bullshit you guys. I'll say here what I said in the speakers corner:

Johannes Heesters died two weeks ago at 108. He was still singing and playing in movies. He smoked for 90+ years, and he drank a lot of alcohol too. No cancer, no health problems, no trouble with his voice. Winston Churchill would be another example: he smoked and drank like there ain't no tommorrow and he made it to 90. He was also pretty obese. My next-door neigbor, who was a vegetarian, drank smoothies and fruitshakes and always went jogging, died at 46 from a heart-attack. Now I'm not saying smoking and drinking is good for you. That'd be silly. But happy people generally live much longer and more satisfying lifes then health-freaks who are always stressed out about how many calories they consume or afraid to inhale a little bit of smoke by accidant. Just sayin'. Let the people smoke! It's their own personal choice. The glorious First Consul of Rome 22:56, January 9, 2012 (UTC)

Sure people have a right to smoke, but what if it infringes on other's right to not want to. There IS second (and even 3rd) hand smoke, and that is not bullshit. As I said, my grandpa died from smoke-related causes, and he was not happy at all. A bunch of medical checkups, lots of pills and even bedridden at points. HORTON11 : •  22:59, January 9, 2012 (UTC)

Smoking actually is proven to lower the lifespan. I agree, though, with both of you. It is people's right to smoke (and to have marijuana, alcohol, etc.) but 2nd hand smoke needs to be prevented. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 23:01, January 9, 2012 (UTC)
 * A lower lifespan isn't that bad, really. It means less costs for the state, less money to spend on pensions and less money spend on taking care of the elderly in retirement homes. On a more personal note: Horton, I am terribly sorry to hear what happened to your grandfather. Guess he just had bad luck. At 71, my grandfather can still carry a refrigerator up a flight of stairs and he has been smoking for the last 55 years. His father lived to be 95 and he smoked (and drank) too. The glorious First Consul of Rome 23:09, January 9, 2012 (UTC)
 * The glorious First Consul of Rome, smoking realy is bad so I support this initiative. Granero 00:51, January 10, 2012 (UTC)
 * I recon we should combat smoking like all things damaging to oneself, however not through banning but through introduction of a company (sponsored by the state) that produces http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_cigarette which are better for you and reusable causing less waste, they also stop second hand smoke and if done well enough could replace normal cigarettes. Then get other major corporations and companies that have retail branches in Lovia to sell them at a lower price than normal cigarettes. One idea, any other suggestions? 86.24.15.23 16:52, January 10, 2012 (UTC)
 * Not to break your dream, but if you are a real smoker you get depressed from electronic cigarettes. They do not give you the same satisfaction as a real cigarette and it's way easier to overdose them. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 16:54, January 10, 2012 (UTC)
 * Don't worry, no solution is perfect but this is a good one. Depression is a withdrawal sympton, what I'm saying is that we can stop people from going to them at an early age and instead buying cheaper and in the end healthier product. Plus we can stop overdose quite easily by limiting the sellable amount of nicotine liquid solutions to 6-10 ml/mg, those aren't overdose numbers. But honestly I think if we work on this we can combat the health problem that smoking itself causes, we don't need to ban anything nor waste money on attack ads against smokers. 86.24.15.23 17:06, January 10, 2012 (UTC)
 * Nice try, I'm gonna keep my daily smoke though :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 17:11, January 10, 2012 (UTC)
 * We could introduce electronic cigarettes and to offset the costs the government could raise taxes/prices on conventional smokes. And Oos, smoke all you want but don't pollute my air and the air of all Lovians. HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 17:21, January 10, 2012 (UTC)
 * I think we've found our solution. Most seasoned smokers won't change but thats their choice and I think that we've done well here actually, we've sustained freedom of choice and moved towards a healthier Lovia. Plus Horton I think personal smoking isn't as bad second hand smoke as that from cars/factories, they are target number 1. 86.24.15.23 17:24, January 10, 2012 (UTC)
 * Horton, please read the federal law first. Lovia already has one of the highest taxes on tobacco world-wide. It makes no sense to make it even higher. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 17:37, January 10, 2012 (UTC)===Not true===

Our mainfesto is clear, sorry horton, But we're pro smoke. We're a bit libertarian-Socialist if there is such a thing. Horton may support it but I don't. But like all great parties there are divisions and differences. But for the record I am PRO hemp and smoke PRO laws fineing people alot of money when they smoke around minors, and such. Marcus/Michael Villanova 22:53, January 12, 2012 (UTC)


 * Very true, just introduce electric smokes with limitation on their dosage, I'll write a bill for the government after elections. 86.24.15.23 17:41, January 10, 2012 (UTC)

Tired of this?


With more cars, traffic jams are becoming more of an issue in Lovia. On top of that, there is no public transit system to offset that and other environmental effects. Lovia's Labour Party would like to create public transit and make it greener. If you vote LABOUR in the current elections, you can be sure to see: Vote Labor for a green tomorrow. See you at the polls. HORTON11 : •  19:31, January 10, 2012 (UTC)
 * a public transportation system in place throught Lovia's main cities
 * greener buses (Hybrid and Electric)
 * tax credits for energy-efficient personal vehicles


 * All this green energy is to distract from the damage to Lovia itself that the transit system could do, Lovia is hardly a bustling metropolis and so something less permanent would work better, such as a sea transit system, which wouldn't require any building of railways and would go to every major city as they all border the sea. However within cities public transit could work easily as long as it is minimised. Tax credits also cost more bureaucracy so why not instead just lower everyones taxes and then tax more those with particularly nasty gas guzzlers? Vote LUKAS HOFFMANN for a green innovational system. Kunarian 19:48, January 10, 2012 (UTC)
 * The thing is, we have a bunch of rail services but no buses. We can offer tax credits and still offset the costs by taxing the gas guzzlers (like you suggested). And sea-buses are terribly expensive (ex. Paris and Venice) but funded well enough they could work. HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 20:07, January 10, 2012 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I'd prefer a system where we don't damage Lovian countryside or even reclaim it if it's already damaged and respond with better road transport (like you said) and by changing larger transport to sea, it wouldn't be too expensive at all with a green system implemented. Also we should still in my opinion just lower taxes and tax the gas guzzlers twice rather than tax credit systems, they cost more to operate. Kunarian 20:12, January 10, 2012 (UTC)

AAAARGHHH!!!!

Y U NO LIKE CARS??

I love cars, modern ones, classics concepts (but not 70s landyachts). But the thing is, we need more buses and green cars (not all are boring, Look at the Tesla roadster). HORTON11 : •  19:40, January 10, 2012 (UTC)

SO WE KEEP CAR AND WE GET FUGLY BUS TOO? THATS NOT HELPING?!

Y U SAY U NO WANT TRAFFIC THEN SAY U LIKE CARS? U NO LIKE CARS!!!

I'm an admin on the cars wiki, I created a car show here and I go to real ones lots of times. So don't call a car guy not a fan of cars. You probably don't like them at all and are just trying to anger me and others. And who said we're getting fugly buses. We can get really nice and modern ones HORTON11 : •  19:47, January 10, 2012 (UTC)

And btw, speak correctly. HORTON11 : •  19:48, January 10, 2012 (UTC)

Y U NO LIKE OLD CLASSIC BUSSSS LIKE ENGLISH BUS WHICH IS DOUBLE BUSS LIKE TWICE A NORMAL BUS AND RED?!?!

Y U NO DRIVE CAR THESELVES?????

Y U CRITICIZE ME!!!

You're the one making accusations and criticizing, so don't blame me. If you need something to blame, Blame it on the Alcohol, the Bossa Nova but not me. And btw I do like old English double-deckers, but they're not very practical to run anymore. HORTON11 : •  20:01, January 10, 2012 (UTC)


 * Also not Lovia. but ahem... my response Horton? :P Kunarian 20:02, January 10, 2012 (UTC)

Labour Party on Christianity and Gay Marriage
Just because your a Christian doesn't mean God appreciates what you do. I'll let that simmer... Marcus/Michael Villanova 22:50, January 12, 2012 (UTC)


 * Personally, I'm against gay marriage, but to be honest, I'm against any form of marriage in the first place, so... On a more serious note, I'm against politicians poking in on religion. By the way, isn't Andrew Villanova, your brother, openly homosexual and a member of the Labour Party?--— Christopher Costello (Pikapi • Chat  • What's up ) 23:08, January 12, 2012 (UTC)

The LDP also strongly supports Gay Marriage, as well as other social rights like Abortion. Abortion is not murder, unless you consider euthanizing animals murder. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 23:20, January 12, 2012 (UTC)


 * @chris-yup Marcus/Michael Villanova 00:31, January 13, 2012 (UTC)


 * Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders 1 Corinthians 6:9


 * So then where do you stand on this? Are you against it, for it? — Christopher Costello (Pikapi • Chat  • What's up ) 01:39, January 13, 2012 (UTC)
 * I fully agree with Sunkist. There is nothing against male preference, but there is something against homosexual sex. Some even argue that gay men should marry women (because of the fertility promise), but that is quite hard. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 06:33, January 13, 2012 (UTC)
 * Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind for it is an abomination. Let men be men and women be women. And let all of us act the way nature intended them to act. Even those with sinful urges and unnatural feelings for members of the same sex. And let marriage be between a man and a woman, as it has always been. The glorious First Consul of Rome 10:51, January 13, 2012 (UTC)
 * -Sunkist-, I'm unhappy with how religious you've became. The Bible cannot be put in law for ANYTHING at all, in my opinion. Christians can read their book as much as they want, but it's not their right to take away the rights of others. Also, I think the bible is 100% lie. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 11:58, January 13, 2012 (UTC)
 * I'm a little iffy on gay marriage and abortion. Im not really for it but neither am I against it (a state of perpetual limbo). Anyways the government should not mess around witth this, churches should choose if they want to accept gays getting married. TM, you're right in saying that the Bible should not be used as law, but its not a lie. HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 12:03, January 13, 2012 (UTC)
 * How can you take away rights that do not even excist as we speak, TimeMaster? Tell me how to do it, 'cuz I'm quite sure it's not possible. As for the Bible being 100% lie, I dunno. I know it isn't 100% correct (the Chosen People bullshit always puts me off and the genocide of the Amalekites disgusts me) but there is plenty of truth and wisdom to be found in the Bible, if you are willing to look for it and open to it's teachings and the symbolism (which only stupid people take completely literal). The glorious First Consul of Rome 12:05, January 13, 2012 (UTC)

Reminder
Please vote in the Second Chamber, we've got an active proposal. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 20:56, January 14, 2012 (UTC)

Will do! Marcus/Michael Villanova 21:13, January 14, 2012 (UTC)

Federal elections
The currently standings are:
 * 1) O. W. Ilava - (CCPL) - 21
 * 2) M. Villanova (Labour) - 20
 * 3) J. Abrahams - (Labour) - 13
 * 4) W. Krosby - (LDP) - 12
 * 5) L. Hoffmann - (CNP) - 8
 * 6) J. Lewis - (Labour) - 8
 * 7) C. Costello - (PL) - 7
 * 8) P. McCrooke - (CPL) - 6
 * 9) B. An - (PL) - 5
 * 10) M. McComb - (PL) - 5
 * 11) S. Breyev - (independent) - 4
 * 12) J. Torres - (PL) - 4
 * 13) B. Opat' - (MCP) - 4
 * 14) Y. A. Donia - (CCPL) - 2


 * Labour - 41
 * CCPL (out of nowhere) - 23
 * PL - 21
 * LDP - 12
 * CNP - 8
 * CPL.nm - 6
 * Independents - 4
 * MCP - 4
 * Marcus/Michael Villanova 00:55, January 18, 2012 (UTC)
 * Finally I am last! And I didn't even have to work very hard for it! It's a natural talent, I think. The glorious First Consul of Rome 19:23, January 17, 2012 (UTC)
 * PS: Congrats, Oos! You're saving the honour for the CCPL. The glorious First Consul of Rome 19:23, January 17, 2012 (UTC)
 * What a performance, truely great. Kunarian 20:32, January 17, 2012 (UTC)
 * Awwww sweetnees Labour with 41 seats, wee still need to coalition though. Also i like how the PL counted me out like instantly yet Labour came back and we totally rocked. Thank you Lovia Marcus/Michael Villanova 21:27, January 17, 2012 (UTC)
 * Were doing good but remember this German saying, "don't count your chickens before they are hatched". HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 22:16, January 17, 2012 (UTC)
 * I knew we would have it hard but I didn't know it would be this good of a result. Frankly I think this year could be quite revolutionary. Kunarian 22:48, January 17, 2012 (UTC)
 * I think this is more appropriate: Count on inactive users to come back and only vote for users they know. These elections are so unfair... thanks to inactive people, Ilava and Villanova have a gigantic lead. And Wabba, who is largely oblivious to the community, is ahead of users like Costello or An... —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 00:30, January 18, 2012 (UTC)
 * Umm k the official party listing Is as followed:
 * Ok. I think Granero is joining my party, though. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 01:54, January 18, 2012 (UTC)
 * Yeah, these elections are pretty unfair to some people. Hard work isn't always rewarded properly, it shows. But sometimes inactivity is punished, as we can see in my case. So it's not entirely unfair yet. The glorious First Consul of Rome 08:54, January 18, 2012 (UTC)
 * Lovian elections have always been unfair, tbh. You did pretty well, TM, considering everything. --Semyon 18:03, January 18, 2012 (UTC)
 * Does anyone support a restriction on voting, based on how many edits in the last week or month you made? —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 23:33, January 18, 2012 (UTC)
 * I do, but not so much that old editors can't come back and maybe go a do some worthwhile edits so they can vote. One of the more important things I want to bring in is that you can only make one vote for your party, this would stop situations where one party gets major votes simply due to its size. Kunarian 00:19, January 19, 2012 (UTC)
 * I suppose the first of your ideas is good, Kunarian. The second one about people being allowed to vote only once on their own party is bullshit. Big parties naturally perform better then the smaller ones. That's not weird or unusual or "unfair", it's how politics work. If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen. The glorious First Consul of Rome 08:39, January 19, 2012 (UTC)
 * Of course we can't put restrictions on this election already (changing voting conditions now is corrupt). I do support a change for future elections though. Especially the state elections need some fixing (only one state you can vote for f.e.) --O u WTBsjrief-mich 09:27, January 19, 2012 (UTC)
 * @Oos: true dat. Thanks for your suppor btw! The glorious First Consul of Rome 09:44, January 19, 2012 (UTC)
 * You needed it most, so you got it ;) --O u WTBsjrief-mich 10:08, January 19, 2012 (UTC)

Lovian politics aside
WHO AGREES TO FUCK PIPA AND SOPA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Thank you and screw the Congress for this bullshit bill. Marcus/Michael Villanova 23:45, January 17, 2012 (UTC)
 * Agreed. Fuck the Congress, fuck the Congress and fuck the USA! The glorious First Consul of Rome 08:56, January 18, 2012 (UTC)
 * Don't say that, Please. -Sunkist- 11:40, January 18, 2012 (UTC)
 * Why not? They'r acting like a bunch of fascists with this SOPA nonsense... so fuck 'em. Never was a big fan anyway... The glorious First Consul of Rome 15:10, January 18, 2012 (UTC)

Hello
Hi, i am new here, and my UserName is Daembrales. I have lurked for a couple days, and my character is Lucy Austira. I want to get in politics and business, so how can I do that? Can I join the elections, or is it too late? Daembrales 02:45, January 19, 2012 (UTC)
 * First of all: Welcome to Lovia! :) No, unfortunately the candidacy period for the elections has passed, so you'll have to wait. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 09:30, January 19, 2012 (UTC)

Also, what should i do first? Daembrales 02:45, January 19, 2012 (UTC)
 * You could buy a house, expanding the page about your character, create the page of your company. Anything to work to 50 edits. Once you reach 50 edits you become a citizen. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 09:30, January 19, 2012 (UTC)
 * That pretty much sums up what you should do. Good luck, and welcome! —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 11:55, January 19, 2012 (UTC)
 * Percaps you could support (or even join) the Labour Party. I saw you were in favor of universal healthcare, and I (and Labor) are fully in support of that. HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 13:22, January 19, 2012 (UTC)
 * I suggest that you settle into Lovia before you join a party or even not join a party and just support one. As for universal healthcare, most parties support it. However from your persons page I can also see they have their own medical corporation, which is great! because my party believes in competitive economics so I hope that we can co-operate in the future. Kunarian 15:53, January 19, 2012 (UTC)
 * ok, can i still vote in elections? And what is your party name? Daembrales 17:12, January 19, 2012 (UTC)
 * Federal elections are still open but you need to have made 50 edits and to have a home, which if you powerhouse a little shouldn't be a problem. My party is the Conservative Nationalist Party and my character, the leader of the party is Lukas Hoffmann, if you want our current policies click here. Remember you have until the 21st and today is the 19th, good luck. Kunarian 17:18, January 19, 2012 (UTC)
 * (edit conflict) We have a law that users have to have 50 useful edits to become a citizen, which gives you rights such as voting. But you can purchase a house in any town without being a citizen (hint: Novosevensk ). --Semyon 17:19, January 19, 2012 (UTC)
 * Kunarian, i'm afraid that the CNP is too right so I won't join. I will give you a vote, though. Daembrales 22:25, January 19, 2012 (UTC)
 * Don't worry I didn't ask you to join, but I'm glad for your support. What by the way do you find to be too right? so I may look at the points. Kunarian 22:42, January 19, 2012 (UTC)
 * uh, semyon, there are no places to buy a place in Novosevensk. You can only buy "FOR SALE" places, i think. Daembrales 22:27, January 19, 2012 (UTC)
 * I personally recommend living in Newhaven. Although, your page says you were born in Hurbanova--why don't you buy a house there? —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 00:40, January 20, 2012 (UTC)
 * Hurb's a great place to live in. HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 19:01, January 20, 2012 (UTC)
 * I agree, its also got a rich history. Kunarian 19:04, January 20, 2012 (UTC)
 * I really love old and historical towns. If I were to stay in Belgium, I would like to live in Bruges. HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 19:07, January 20, 2012 (UTC)

Current electoral situation

 * Leftists - 36 seats
 * CPL.nm - 5
 * McCrooke - 5
 * Labour - 31
 * Villanova - 15
 * Abrahams - 10
 * Lewis - 6
 * Liberals - 25 seats
 * Positive Lovia - 16
 * Costello - 5
 * McComb - 4
 * An - 4
 * Torres - 3
 * LDP - 9
 * Krosby - 9
 * Conservatives - 40 seats
 * CCPL - 22
 * Ilava - 18
 * Donia - 4
 * CNP - 8
 * Hoffman - 8
 * Independent Breyev - 5
 * MCP - 5
 * Opat' - 5

These are the current results, totalling 101. --Semyon 18:55, January 20, 2012 (UTC)


 * I have 8 votes! Not 6! Wabba The I 19:10, January 20, 2012 (UTC)