Forum:The Pub

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nl:Forum:De kroegli:Forum:De Kaffeero:RoWikicity:Cafeneasv:Forum:Krogen Welcome to The Pub! This is the general meeting place in Lovia. Inhabitants can make public announcements, have a friendly chat with some copatriots, or discuss crucial issues in Lovian politics or business. Speeches can also be made at Speakers' Corner. All archives of The Pub can be found here.

Coalition for Clymene
In the past few days I've been speaking on a possible merger and political future for Labour and myself. Now after a short discussion, a new coalition has been made for Clymene. A short discussion was had with Mr.Szóhad and what was clear was that while sharing many ideological viewpoints, we shared a great conern for Clymene that no other politician can credibly say. Szóhad and I were in the Executive roles last time in 2011 and Clymene prospered and saw new reforms and innovation in Hightech Valley, Adoha and Downtown Sofasi that no one could imagine. Along with that we fought hard and long for devolution and for Plains to become a recognized settlement. But we spoke again and decided the greatness we accomplished couldn't be forgot, since now the current Executives are throwing this state's greatness away. It's not ideology that binds us in this new Coalition for Clymene but the concern and love for the State which can boast highest in green jobs and the best and most afforable healthcare in the nation. Things accomplished under my governorship with the help of Szóhad. I hope this fall you vote with your heart and mind and know that this coalition is the best possible thing to help Clymene. Thank you. Marcus/Michael Villanova 23:42, June 22, 2013 (UTC)

Well, I'm staying with Labour but your coalition definitely has my minor vote in Clymene :) Frijoles333 / Marcel Cebara (talk) 20:10, June 25, 2013 (UTC)

Just a heads up
Everyone. we're starting the selection for The Greatest Brunanter over in Brunant, and if anyone is interested we're now accepting nominations for Brunanters in 5 categories: Historical figures, Politicians, Sportspeople, Entertainers and Artists and humanists. HORTON11 : •  13:06, June 24, 2013 (UTC)

Map
So, I want to create a very detailed topographical map of Lovia, and I saw that others have already done some groundwork, such as Kunarians list of settlements, and Yuris old Kings maps. If you have any input, or things that should definitely be added to the map, I'd be glad to use that. Cadaro (www.tonefactory.lo) 13:29, June 24, 2013 (UTC)
 * Wait, there's a height map for Oshenna, let me search for it. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 13:31, June 24, 2013 (UTC)
 * Settlements - use of ground - height-rock formations - height-water. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 13:34, June 24, 2013 (UTC)
 * I have a topographical map of Sylvania, partly done with a few rivers on it, I'll work on it a bit, try to finish it up and give it to you. Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 13:42, June 24, 2013 (UTC)
 * Donia Castle, in the Emerald Highland, Sylvania. The glorious First Consul of Rome (talk) 14:33, June 24, 2013 (UTC)

So, here is a first concept of the outline (click on the image to get an idea of the details on the coastline). I am thinking of adding a few tiny islets and reefs here and there to flesh it out a bit. Is that okay? Cadaro (www.tonefactory.lo) 15:20, June 24, 2013 (UTC)
 * Please, no habitable island. Small rocks and wadplaten are okay. Reefs are ofcourse also good: Oceana Reef --O u WTBsjrief-mich 15:22, June 24, 2013 (UTC)
 * It looks good so far. I'll have that map for you soon. Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 15:25, June 24, 2013 (UTC)

Okay, I won't add any islands or rocks (I was thinking about really small ones, but okay). It is true, we don't wanna go against previous maps. Cadaro (www.tonefactory.lo) 15:47, June 24, 2013 (UTC) Here's the map. It's got most of the planned major rivers and the elevation is largely still in rough but it should help. Hoffmann Kunarian TALK 16:03, June 24, 2013 (UTC)
 * Ah yes, thank you very much. Appreciate it. Cadaro (www.tonefactory.lo) 16:13, June 24, 2013 (UTC)

Elevation map (first step-up to a geographical map)
Explanation (read carefully!):

So, this is the final product of a few hours hard labor in Adobe Illustrator: an elevation map of Lovia. I will use this map as base map for a geographical map that will include rivers, geographical regions, mountain peaks and possibly sea elevations. The map is created using a vector program, so I can freely delete, add, edit or move objects (that is, the shapes of which this map consists). So feel free to make suggestions for additions, edits and corrections. I tried to stay true to Lovian 'lore': I sought up every map available of Lovia and overlayed them over the coastline I showed you in a previous post. Then, I made them semi-transparent and traced/guessed the elevation isomeres using the maps and Lovian articles on things like the Emerald Mountains and the state articles on geography. This enabled me to fill in the blanks: Clymene has never been properly mapped, and some maps looked fancy, but didn't tell me a lot. I spiced up the Emerald mountains a bit (roughening the overall shape, adding a few small ranges in a close proximity to the original Heights core), because I felt that they looked a bit off compared to the rest of Lovia when I finished the map. I am particularly grateful to Kunarian for providing such a complete and detailed map, which allowed me to finish the rest of Peace Island without guessing a whole lot.

I took the maximum elevations -as indicated on the wiki for every island and state- in account when drawing the isomeres. So everything is (if I didn't make any mistakes) true to the wiki-lore. (For instance, at first I hadn't drawn any elevation isomeres on the Isles of London and Frisco, those two islets in the southwest corner, but when I looked them up, the actually had elevations exceeding 25 meters but not above 50 meters).

One important note: I inserted some extra elevation layers between each "known" layer. OWTBs map indicated 50, 100, 250 and 500 meters for example. I added 25 and 750 meters. The 25 meters allowed me to play a bit more with the low regions. Cadaro (www.tonefactory.lo) 20:35, June 24, 2013 (UTC)



This is amazing. And no problem about that map, what's the next step, I have more maps that I've started. Again, simply amazing. Hoffmann Kunarian TALK 21:37, June 24, 2013 (UTC)
 * Wow, it really looks great! Thanks! :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 22:26, June 24, 2013 (UTC)

I am currently working on adding the urban areas. I am aware that Kunarian and OWTB are developing a whole new range of new settlements for their respective states. I will do the same with Clymene. I don't know if Semyon is still active, but I suppose it wouldn't hurt if I added one or two settlements (that is, the really small places like OWTB and Kunarian are working on). I ask you guys to create a list of prospective settlements for Kings (and possibly Seven) and then I am all set. Cadaro (www.tonefactory.lo) 23:02, June 24, 2013 (UTC)

I would moderate the elevation in the northern half of the peaks in Kings to the lighter brown (or even shorter than that) and change the elevation of one of those islands in Seven to have an elevation higher in the middle. Otherwise looks very nice. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 00:33, June 25, 2013 (UTC)

I think we need to decide certain states like clymene together especially since many people would have vested interest there. :P Marcus/Michael Villanova 01:00, June 25, 2013 (UTC)

Nice map! :) 4kant,6FRÅGOR??? 06:48, June 25, 2013 (UTC)

Perhaps the elevation near Sofasi goes up too quickly. Considering Hightech Valley is north of downtown Sofasi, and the airport is there too (you'd need relatively flat grounds for those). --O u WTBsjrief-mich 08:47, June 25, 2013 (UTC)

I like it. :) With regards to the settlements in Seven - atm apart from Kinley and Novosevensk the only major settlements are Amish Kinley and Rybachye. On other islands there are only isolated farms, though if it would make the map nicer, I might make a couple of other larger ones. --Semyon 10:00, June 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * Yes please, that would definitely improve the map. You don't have to think of dozens of settlements (that wouldn't be realistic too) but two new ones would be cool. Cadaro (www.tonefactory.lo) 10:18, June 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * Alright, I'll add it to my to-do list. :) --Semyon 10:21, June 25, 2013 (UTC)

Also, regarding some suggestion about the elevation map, I can address some: I used the topographical map of Kings made by Regaliorum (Yuri), which clearly states that those northern areas have peaks above 500 meters. I will look into the Clymene issue and see if it is feasible to soften the elevation a bit in the south to accomodate the runway. I stayed true to Sevens topographical map, so I think it is Semyons business whether or not Seven looks good. Cadaro (www.tonefactory.lo) 10:25, June 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * Lovia - only country where height of the land is adjusted to suit building projects. --Semyon 10:45, June 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * Look up the Dutch province of Flevoland. You will be pleasantly surprised. Cadaro (www.tonefactory.lo) 11:27, June 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * Well, we've got the Netherlands - only country where existance of the land is adjusted to suit building projects :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 11:16, June 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * I just noticed this remark, which is inaccurate - "island-building" has occurred in the United Arab Emirates (Palm Island and the world-map islets), though not over such a large area. IC, there's Mäöres's projects as well. ;) 77topaz (talk) 04:14, July 3, 2013 (UTC)
 * Coincidentally, I was just reading about Flevoland. Sounds like a rather weird place, tbh. --Semyon 11:28, June 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * It is,a ctually, nobody likes it. Not even the Flevolanders themselves :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 12:47, June 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * I'm aware, but the colors don't agree with the marked highest elevation. On that map, the colors are below 500m while the marked highest elevation in each of the locations is above. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 13:54, June 25, 2013 (UTC)

So, any suggestions for Kings settlements? Cadaro (www.tonefactory.lo) 11:55, June 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * I had a few ideas a while ago, I've made a map on top of your topographical map. Red dots are the minor settlements. Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 13:53, June 25, 2013 (UTC)




 * I kind of want a small settlement close to my Castle where more relatives and personnel of mine can live, Brigadiers can find lodging and perhaps a small motel and diner can be set up for tourists or mountaineers traveling through the area. Nothing too big or fancy, just a small adorable little village where no more then 150 people at most will be living. The glorious First Consul of Rome (talk) 13:00, June 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * See the Amish Kinley solution. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 13:12, June 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * That's a suitable solution. Would Amish Kingsley, and my own version of it in the Emeralds, be on the maps, too? I assume so. That officializes their existance. The glorious First Consul of Rome (talk) 13:16, June 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * Hahah :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 13:27, June 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * Preferably this settlement wouldn't be in Sylvania? all the population and settlements are figured and the non-metropolitan rural population lives around normally on sparse farmsteads. Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 13:41, June 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * I kind of insist they'd be near the Castle, which is located in the Emerald Highlands of Sylvania. To place it outside the state would be crazy and pointless. The glorious First Consul of Rome (talk) 14:25, June 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * Maybe I could offer you a place in Oceana, way up in the Emeralds? :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 14:27, June 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * As long as dat lew would be eskapat, I'd feel mighty safe in Oshenna! The glorious First Consul of Rome (talk) 14:30, June 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * Okay, just build a few illegal houses near the border and the Gonner will personally make sure they are safe against demolition :P As nobody knows of this, we won't include 'em on the maps. It's our secret :o --O u WTBsjrief-mich 14:32, June 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * It has to be on maps of course. I seek eternality, for my creations to exist in and outside of time itself. Think big, dare dream, dare reach for those stars my friend. I don't build stuff for it not to be admired. The glorious First Consul of Rome (talk) 14:36, June 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * :o Okay, you make sure it gets on maps. I ain't responsible if other people find out :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 14:42, June 25, 2013 (UTC)

Lovian Times Polling 25-26 June
Elections
 * 25-26 June 2013 - If a Federal Election happened tomorrow who would you give a major vote to?
 * 2 - Conservative Christian Party of Lovia
 * 1 - Social Christian Party
 * 2 - Social Liberal Party
 * 2 - Green Party
 * 3 - Conservative Nationalist Party
 * 2 - Labour Party
 * 2 - Other


 * 25-26 June 2013 - If a Federal Election happened tomorrow who would you give a minor vote to?
 * 3 - Conservative Christian Party of Lovia
 * 0 - Social Christian Party
 * 2 - Social Liberal Party
 * 1 - Green Party
 * 5 - Conservative Nationalist Party
 * 3 - Labour Party
 * 0 - Other


 * 25-26 June 2013 - If a Federal Election happened tomorrow who would you give a support vote to?
 * 3 - Conservative Christian Party of Lovia
 * 0 - Social Christian Party
 * 2 - Social Liberal Party
 * 1 - Green Party
 * 1 - Conservative Nationalist Party
 * 4 - Labour Party
 * 3 - Other

Approval
 * 25-26 June 2013 - Do you approve or disapprove of the Government's record to date?
 * 8 - Approve
 * 3 - Disapprove
 * 1 - Don't Know

Comments
Weekly tradition up and going. Hoffmann Kunarian TALK 07:09, June 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * Kunarian, I know your votes now :o --O u WTBsjrief-mich 08:48, June 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * I haven't voted! Oos can see into my mind! :O Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 09:53, June 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * :o Then there are actually other people voting for CNP too :o This is a strange world... :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 10:00, June 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * Verily. Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 10:19, June 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * Quite. Cadaro (www.tonefactory.lo) 10:26, June 25, 2013 (UTC)

Argh, I didn't notice this poll. :( That means that Vivaporius probably didn't vote either. That might explain some oddities. :P 77topaz (talk) 06:14, June 28, 2013 (UTC)

Charles for Charleston


Charles Alexander Bennett is Charleston local leader, helping build the community and allowing massive growth come to the city. He fought for Lovia and defended his town durning the Civil War, he proudly aligns himself not with a party but as a independent and is fully dedicated to the people whom elect him. Bennett is a centrist, understanding view points from both sides. Help elect Bennett to continue Charlestons growth. -Sunkist- (talk) 12:02, June 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * Great message, build community and listen to all views. I think it's also good to have someone very dedicated to building a culture and idea around. For these reasons I completely throw my support behind your campaign good sir. Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 13:16, June 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * I second that. You have my fullest support, Mr. Bennett, my good humble hard-working Christian brother. May you live long and may Charleston prosper under your benevolent rule. The glorious First Consul of Rome (talk) 13:19, June 25, 2013 (UTC)

Settlements Map
And yet another map, indicating the settlements of Lovia. According to me and Kunarian (and by the looks of it OWTB, Semyon and Magnus) this is the direction we want to go with Lovia: more settlements. They don't all need a wikitable map, and I am in favor of updating the system of using wikitables as maps. The amount of settlements makes more sense, as Lovia has 200,000 inhabitants (comparable to Iceland).

I took all of your suggestions and own plans in account when creating these new settlements. For Oceana and Sylvania, I only added settlements that were listed in Kunarians and OWTBs settlement lists. I took great care to label them correctly. As OWTB has only given a rough indication of the location of the Oshenna settlements, I tried to fill in the blanks and place them in the correct position. In the case of Sylvania, I traced the location of the settlements using Kunarians maps.

The settlements of Seven and their respective locations were discussed with Semyon, and added according to his suggestions.

As I am affiliated with Clymene, I took the freedom to implement my own state plan there and add the settlements I am working on in my user space.

Because there is currently no one taking care of Kings in particular, I added settlements as well in Kings. I tried to do this with great care, and imposed a few rules on myself:
 * Settlement names in Kings are either based on Kings lore (founding father Johnson, the King, the prevalence of terns and gulls on the east coast, the Windthorn Shore and so on) or taken from the list of most common place names in the US on the English Wikipedia. This way, I remained neutral and didn't interfere with existing lore
 * The placement of settlements is (partly) based on the land use map of Yuri (look it up). He also stated that there were a few settlements between Portland and Newhaven. Cadaro (www.tonefactory.lo) 13:50, June 25, 2013 (UTC)

Anyway, here is the map:

I have no idea what to call the settlements, but add some to the river mouths that are visible in the northeast of Kings, east of Clymene, etc. and others where you feel is best to mirror the density of the settlements in Oceana and Sylvania. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 13:56, June 25, 2013 (UTC)

Oceana has one city and one hamlet, while Kings has one (large) city, one (large) town and one hamlet, so I think things even out. Also, Oceana has a lot more smaller rural hamlets. At least, that was my reasoning behind it. I didn't add more settlements, as Kings is currently without a user taking care of it. If you can come up with some names, however, I would gladly add them. Clymene has 3/4th of Oceanas inhabitants, and Adoha, Sofasi and Plains are quite large. My reasoning there is that Clymene is quite undeveloped. Cadaro (www.tonefactory.lo) 14:02, June 25, 2013 (UTC)

All of the settlements with no articles are hamlets, with less than 100 people, so they would not increase the population more than 20% if added to major settlements. They're already accounted for in censuses, anyway. Beaverwick is a village but its page is not yet updated. I guess not much I can do to make Clymene and Seven have more, but as Governor of Kings, I order you to add more settlements to Kings to mirror the density of Sylvania and Oceana. If it's any help, the river mouth a little above the center of the eastern coastline is a Muslim themed town. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 14:08, June 25, 2013 (UTC)

Kunarian made a map further up the page, you could use that while I think of some names. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 14:10, June 25, 2013 (UTC)

You should've consulted with me on the settlement names.numbers etc. as governor. I wouldn't want to have any more development outside of Adoha in Truth Island, as I would like to protect the forests and natural zones around. As for the rest we should try and align them along the major roads, as that is more plausible. Then again I also want to add a few more state roads. HORTON11 : •  14:12, June 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * As admirable as this is, settlements would have definitely formed, if just one or two more. What would you do? turf them up and force them off their land? Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 14:23, June 25, 2013 (UTC)

There's only one other settlement on Truth Island (Clinton) and it's where Highway 5 goes by between Sofasi and Adoha. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 14:14, June 25, 2013 (UTC)

Hwy 5 seems to end in Adoha, and I believe most of our development should be focused on Asian Island, as most people in Clymene live there. HORTON11 : •  14:17, June 25, 2013 (UTC)

Yes, and Clinton is between Adoha and Sofasi, where a bridge would be built due to the shorter distance over water. :P —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 14:21, June 25, 2013 (UTC)


 * I do insist, Donia Castle has to be included on the map. It's an important landmark, historically and perhaps the largest building of the nation when it comes to surface. The glorious First Consul of Rome (talk) 14:23, June 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * The Bridge already exists, but it's location isn't specified. But you're right, the highway map seems to confirm what you just said. But instead of an actual settlement on that spot, I would like to have a smallstop for travelers, with a small store for porivions, gas station and of couse a few houses. HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 14:24, June 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * Horton, I'd rather have people suggest new stuff instead of removing things. We have to even out things, y'know. Also, I have been involved in Clymene for quite some years now, as SKWikistad and Cadaro, so I feel I have at least a say in the matter. @Magnus: this map only shows settlements, no landmarks. Those will be added in a next map. Expect a large, pulsating dot with caps-locked "DONIA CASTLE" as a token of friendship, okay? Cadaro (www.tonefactory.lo) 14:31, June 25, 2013 (UTC)

Yeah, these settlements are all hamlets, so that is all it would be (plus a few farms). —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 14:30, June 25, 2013 (UTC)


 * I would have imagined some being slightly larger (Maybe not like Milerose or Plains, but definately like an unincorporated community as we have in Brunant. [[User:Horton11| HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 14:33, June 25, 2013 (UTC)

Settlements map suggestions
Okay everyone shut up now. :P Please write down what changes you want in one comment, and I will address them if reasonable. Try to include names of settlements and locations if possible, otherwise people will persist being unhappy about the whole thing. Cadaro (www.tonefactory.lo) 14:35, June 25, 2013 (UTC)


 * There will be a small settlement\village at the foot of Donia Castle, near the mountain it is located on. It will be named Magna Augusta, and will house members of the Donia Clan, employees, barracks and lodgings for the Brigadiers, and housing and some shops for tourists and mountaineers exploring local wildlife and mountains. I also plan for there to be a solar observation installation, and to have one of the castle's towers be used for the sake of birth watching and tracking local flora, fauna and wildlife, as I care deeply for the environment. There will not live more then 150 people in here at most and it will not be too large. Comparable to Amish Kingsley. The glorious First Consul of Rome (talk) 14:40, June 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * Boynitz should be in the green line between the two brown blocks in Oceana :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 14:46, June 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * This map looks nice too :) Just one little note: the name "Tern Beach" (assuming the last word is "beach") goes off the map :P 4kant,6FRÅGOR??? 14:58, June 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * That hamlet's located in Kings, btw :P 4kant,6FRÅGOR??? 15:00, June 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * All three suggestion granted. I am now waiting for the rest of the people who had complaints/additions before I render it again. If you now all could come up with names for settlements in Kings, that'd be great. Cadaro (www.tonefactory.lo) 15:01, June 25, 2013 (UTC)

If Donia has his Magna Augusta it will need to be on the Oceana side as all Sylvania is decided, I do not mind there being a very slight non-metropolitan conglomeration near the castle if it still needs be in Sylvania but nothing like a proper 100 around settlement like Coaltown and Severnybana. I also would like the adjustments from my Kunar is picky map, if you could please. And I second the increase of settlements in Kings to a reasonable density, also I'll start thinking of name ideas. Other than that nothing really, you've done a good job. Hoffmann Kunarian TALK 15:06, June 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * I have moved the three towns of your choice though. Take a close look. The Magna Augusta settlement is in Oceana. Cadaro (www.tonefactory.lo) 15:12, June 25, 2013 (UTC)

Add all hamlets that Kunarian had on his proposed Kings map, with the exception of one hamlet from the northern hills being moved to the river mouth off to the east. Names coming soon. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 15:10, June 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * Four dots already correspond the Kunarian map, I will add the remaining dots though. Cadaro (www.tonefactory.lo) 15:12, June 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * Kings suggestions: I'd go for the lazy option and add Cape Donald, Westmark and Hawke's Wood to the map within their respective districts. :P Kings is meant to have a reasonably high population of British descent so perhaps steal a few names such as Manchester or Sunderland? Other suggestion: Burke's Dam, Long Shot, Lost Cause, Beer, Stanley, Brunswick, Hewlett, Neale Downs. --Semyon 15:17, June 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * Beer? :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 15:19, June 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * Definitely not the least plausible one on that list. There's even a crater on Mars called Beer, apparently. :P --Semyon 15:21, June 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * :o I always knew there was something biblical about beer :o --O u WTBsjrief-mich 15:22, June 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure it's mentioned, actually, though wine is (as we've already discussed on the MIGFE page :P) --Semyon 15:28, June 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * Of course: Oceana wine :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 15:30, June 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * You're mistaken, my friend. They were talking about Chester Valley wine, the best in the world after the French. HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 15:43, June 25, 2013 (UTC)

For Clymene, only a few name changes would be necessary, as some are too similar to other places in Lovia. Other than that the position etc. is good. HORTON11 : •  15:43, June 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * Roosendorp to Rosendorp (would likely have become anglicized)
 * Newtown to Abington (Newtown is already used, too dull)
 * Glesga (great and unique)
 * Timber Harbor: perhaps we can give it a name in Bredish
 * Eastwood can stay the same or we can go with Rosswold, Rosewold, Rosswood
 * Aberdeen perhaps to Lisney

Kings Hamlet List (without Long Shot, Lost Cause, Beer, etc.) (if bad Dutch then correct please):
 * Windthorn Harbor --> Cape Donald
 * east northeast (20 degrees above due east maybe) of the northernmost peak, in that small bay-ish area: Windthorn
 * Milton, Fort Johnson, and Newcastle are good.
 * Tern Beach --> Estarois
 * King's Farms --> Koningdorp
 * Noble Farms --> Edeldorp
 * Centerville --> Centreville
 * Oostdorp east of Milton.
 * Bergdorf next to the northernmost peak.
 * Hewlett between the three hamlets in the west just south of Newhaven, in the middle of the triangle that they form.
 * Whatever the name of the Muslim hamlet was going to be, will be back with it later Thameen, north of Estarois and south of Windthorn.
 * You can come up with a few (not more than 4 or 5 probably) more but get German in the North, French in the East/Centre, Dutch in the Centre/Southeast, and American/British in the West please. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 16:52, June 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * Ow, you were a bit late with the suggestions. Is the newest version of the map okay with you? Cadaro (www.tonefactory.lo) 16:57, June 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * So just change it again? :P It's not okay, btw. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 17:04, June 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * Okay, um, I'll see what I can do. Your instructions are now a tad outdated, but I'd be glad to implement them: can you take a look at the map and give me another update on proposed changes? I will do the following already in the meantime: add Thameen, change Centerville to Centreville. Cadaro (www.tonefactory.lo) 17:30, June 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * Also, Koningdorp -> Koningsdorp sounds better, but sounds a bit bland and off to me. (We have had a queen since the 1890s, and only a few months ago we got another king in the Netherlands). Edeldorp doesn't sound like a proper Dutch name to me. In fact most of the X-dorp names sound a bit bland and weird to me. We don't usually have that many names like that in the Netherlands :P Centreville is okay, but mind you, I took Centerville from the list of most common US place names. It probably experienced anglicization. Hewlett reminds me of Hewlett-Packard and a quick google search tells me that it is not a very common English name. Imho Windthorn Harbor sounds really good (I could add Cape Donald next to it). Tern Beach -> Estarois? What is an Estarois? Cadaro (www.tonefactory.lo) 17:38, June 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * I got Estarois from french Est À Rois (East at Kings) and simplified it. Simple X-dorps, X-dorfs, X-villes, are fine imo, but I'll find something to replace Edeldorp. Koningsdorp is fine. Centreville was for French. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 20:20, June 25, 2013 (UTC)

Final version. (Or is it?)
Okay, so I granted all of your requests and implemented all suggested changes and additions (also TimeMasters last minute suggestions) I only ignored one change, namely the Noble Farms -> Edeldorp suggestion, as I felt "Edeldorp" sounds a bit weird. The rest of TimeMasters suggestions have been implemented. Cadaro (www.tonefactory.lo) 19:25, June 25, 2013 (UTC)


 * It looks great. It's not exactly how I envisaged it, but it's still really good. And if you have the chance, do you think you could help me out to make a similar map in Brunant? I did make a topographic map but not nearly a well-made or detailed. HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 19:37, June 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * Cadaro, my congratulations. I'll give you a 9.5/10 (it's Heighn o w, not Heighn a w) :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 19:39, June 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * @ TimeMaster: Tomorrow I am going jamming with my band and Thursday and Friday I am at friends in Leiden, so that's not going to work, but I will look into it in the not too distant future. "It's not exactly how I envisaged it" - care to explain? :P
 * @OWTB: oops, will fix that asap. Cadaro (www.tonefactory.lo) 19:41, June 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * I believe you misspelled "Horton": :P Beautiful map anyway :) 4kant,6FRÅGOR??? 19:45, June 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * I didn't expect to have so many settlements, but we can work with that. HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 19:48, June 25, 2013 (UTC)

Articles
It follows that we should write the articles on the hamlet we just decided on. I propose the following:
 * I think we should simplify the categories we use for settlements. I propose using "city" for the three largest settlements (Noble City, Hurbanova and Newhaven), using "town" or "village" for the rest of the traditional settlements (that is, all settlements that already exist, like Sofasi, Clave Rock, TV, Portland, East Hills and so on, with the exception of Amish Kinley), and using "hamlet" for all the new settlements + Amish Kinley.
 * We could do with a new and better infobox for settlements. I am working on that.

So here is the deal:
 * 1) Take a red link from the list below and create a new article
 * 2) Use this draft as an underground for your articles. Don't worry about the two non-existent templates. I will create them soon
 * 3) Change all placeholders ("X") to the proper names.
 * 4) Apart from Lovian English, add additional languages if necessary (Oshenna in Oceana, Bredish in Clymene, Russian in Novosevensk, and so on)
 * 5) Add a population figure, using your (reasonable) imagination and existing demographical figures.
 * 6) Try too flesh out the article a bit with original text: economy, location, notable things and so on.
 * 7) Add the category "hamlet" and "hamlet in [state]".
 * 8) Check if you didn't fuck up.
 * 9) (for governors) integrate the hamlets in your state articles and related articles.
 * 10) Substitute village for hamlet in the largest new settlements (>500 inhabitants).

Here is the list: Cadaro (www.tonefactory.lo) 19:58, June 25, 2013 (UTC)

Removed Noble Farms (unacceptable, not changing to Edeldorp is fine but please find a better name), got rid of Harbor from Windthorn (also please change) and changed village to hamlet. These would be hamlets, below 100 inhabitants. If they are above, then yes, they would be villages, but I believe most of them are hamlets. Also, do these really all need articles? :P —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 20:00, June 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * As I said, I didn't change Noble Farms to Edeldorp, that's the only change I didn't implement. Also, I think it would really make Lovia more interesting. I mean, we have articles on the most trivial things. Cadaro (www.tonefactory.lo) 20:04, June 25, 2013 (UTC)

Btw, what is wrong with Windthorn Harbor and Noble Farms? Does it sound weird in English? Cadaro (www.tonefactory.lo) 20:05, June 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * Noble Farms isn't too bad but it implies a couple of farms nearby each other which isn't really a settlement, so I'd prefer something else that can be decided later. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 20:08, June 25, 2013 (UTC)

Edit Conflicts!!! Previous - Okay. In addition to the above, move Windthorn to about due east of Bergdorf and a tad north, in the center of the coast of the bay, and remove Sunderland and Hawke's Wood (will become a natural area), and it should be good. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 20:08, June 25, 2013 (UTC)

@ Cadaro - Not at all. But Noble Farms sounds like a brand you'd find at a supermarket. Btw we could call these new places "unincorporated settlements", that is existing but not organized. HORTON11 : •  20:09, June 25, 2013 (UTC)

One more thing, move Thameen each north about how far Thameen is from Stanley right now and Estarois twice that distance. @Horton Yes, and I think hamlet would be better since I think we only have 1 or 2 left. :P Also, I liked the less wordy name for Windthorn since a hamlet wouldn't usually be a harbor. :P —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 20:10, June 25, 2013 (UTC)

Oh, and once Hawke's Wood has been removed, put Oostdorp where it was. And you know what, keep Sunderland on but put it next to the second northernmost peak, south of Bergdorf and would-be Edeldorp/Noble Farms. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 20:16, June 25, 2013 (UTC)

Please, no "unincorporated settlements". I never understood that American system... --O u WTBsjrief-mich 20:20, June 25, 2013 (UTC)

Found out that the Northern Basin is a protected area, so remove Cape Donald as a settlement and make sure to put Windthorn in the correct location. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 20:41, June 25, 2013 (UTC)

Lol, getting close now. :P Hawke's Wood and Sunderland are right next to other settlements, so please remove Hawke's Wood or move Oostdorp due east and a tad north to the coast and move Sunderland to nearby the second northernmost peak. Other than that, I think moving Estarois to touching the coast instead of a little bit inland would make it perfect. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 20:47, June 25, 2013 (UTC)

I;ve spent alot of time on Clymene I just wouldn't like my ideas to be ignored :/ I had some ideas for settlements on the Reform & Liberty Party page about various british and chinese settlements. Hopefully they are added :/ Marcus/Michael Villanova 20:51, June 25, 2013 (UTC)

Protected area =|= no human inhabitation. Compare Yellowstone NP. Also, I implemented your suggestions, but left Sunderland and Hawke's Wood, because otherwise we are back were we begun: less hamlets than Oceana (which has got less inhabitants). Consider them my additions. I will not remove Cape Donald, because most other states also have hamlets in protected areas, and that is perfectly possible. I changed Windthorn Harbor (Regaliorum originally created the name Windthorn) to Nordhorn, as you're right and 'tis a silly name (only references I can find on the internet are WoW and HP fanfics afaik). Nordhorn is a German city and I chose that name because it is in the immediate vicinity of Bergdorf. I changed the location of the hamlet as well, and moved Thameen and Estarois. I will leave Cape Donald, Sunderland and Hawke's Wood alone, as removing them will bring down the amount of hamlets too much. Remember that hamlets can also be situated in natural areas (Glesga, many Oceana and Sylvania hamlets). EDIT CONFLICT post scriptum: I will look into moving Sunderland and Hawke's Wood, but I suggest you take a look at Hurbanova and its many villages. According to me, the close proximity of those hamlets suggest a higher population density. Cadaro (www.tonefactory.lo) 20:53, June 25, 2013 (UTC)

Keeping them is fine, they're just too close to other settlements. Move Windthorn/Nordhorn and Estarois if you haven't, please. I'd move Sunderland to the second northernmost peak and Oostdorp due east to the coast. Otherwise it is fine. Anyway, I think most protected areas are intended to be wildlife preserves without human inhabitation, and as Governor of Kings, I declare that to be the case, so no Cape Donald (there are geysers there anyway). :P —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 20:58, June 25, 2013 (UTC)

Anyway, I'll flashcreate the articles tomorrow :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 21:04, June 25, 2013 (UTC) (yes, the academic year is over, sort of :P)
 * Anyway, does the town name "Lemburg" has something to do with "Lèmbörg"? :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 21:14, June 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * Probably Lvov, judging from Semyons origins. It used to be called Lemberg or Lemburg. Cadaro (www.tonefactory.lo) 21:24, June 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * Correct, though not because of my origins (I'm British :P). I'm hoping to go there in a couple of weeks. @Oos: I'll accept alternative etymologies. :P --Semyon 14:38, June 26, 2013 (UTC)
 * Woo!! I think our Mäöreser Mexicans finally found another place to settle :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 14:40, June 26, 2013 (UTC)

Final final version
I have just made another revision, and I am considering not doing another one. You are all allowed one additional complaint, with the added danger of me possibly ignoring it. I added Xiangu, Cornwall, and Yongye, as I am very fond of Marcus and can't possibly grant every request except his. I also complied with TimeMaster after a lengthy battle. Congrats, fighting partner! I moved Etarois towards the coast, and changed the locations of Sunderland and Oostdorp. I also removed Cape Donald (buhuhuh). :P Cadaro (www.tonefactory.lo) 21:43, June 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * We already have Abington and Lisney as our Anglo-Saxon placenames and we don't need a Chinese one, as they are mostly in Sofasi. Like I said I would like to have a Chinatown in sofasi and we can apply Chinese names locally. HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 21:47, June 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * I think Lovia is finally complete :D Glad to see Kings manily be a small mix of Dutch and British peoples alike :D Marcus/Michael Villanova 21:52, June 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks a lot. I am very content with the results too, and in the process I taught myself some more tricks in Illustrator, so I actually spent my afternoon in a meaningful way. It is pixelated heroin though, I need to stop for a moment soon :P Cadaro (www.tonefactory.lo) 21:59, June 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * Hey, don't forget the French and Germans. :C —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 22:46, June 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * I might just want to move back to Kings, But three residents already noooo :( Marcus/Michael Villanova 22:48, June 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * ? —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 22:50, June 25, 2013 (UTC)

And yes, Kings now looks perfect. Can't say about Clymene though, and, not that you have to change it, but I feel like Oceana should get an inland settlement or two moved to coast. :s —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 22:50, June 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * I used OWTB's maps, and I think that OWTB knows what he is doing when Oceana is concerned. He provided me a paint map with exact location dots, which I traced. Regarding Clymene, there has been a short hassle about it between Horton, me and Marcus, but I am actually quite content with the end result. Cadaro (www.tonefactory.lo) 23:04, June 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * So when will the "official" final final map finally come out :D? Marcus/Michael Villanova 23:11, June 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * I will continue with a road map, a state map and possibly a vegetation/land use map. There will also come a topographical map (that's just this geographical map with rivers and added landmarks). Those are only plans though, and I need to find time for them, and fit them in my "normal" life. It must continue to be fun, not a chore haha Cadaro (www.tonefactory.lo) 23:15, June 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * Haa looks great though so no need to rush yourself  glad everyone got a little something they wanted :D Marcus/Michael Villanova 23:25, June 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * Its about time Lovia got a presentable map, not to discredit any of those made beforehand, those were also very nice. This however is very professional. Thank you sir. You get a cookie. Flag of the Hurian Federation.png Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 23:59, June 25, 2013 (UTC)

@Timey: Done for several reasons. Along the Oceana Beach, which I want protected, there are tens of deserted hamlets, including those where Fade Dutch was spoken. I'm still working on Oceana's history, but the idea is that most of the hamlets disappeared together with the Isle of Bratislava. I need an explanation why Oceana people are land-minded and not sea-minded, and this could offer me a good explanation :) --O u WTBsjrief-mich 08:14, June 26, 2013 (UTC)

Give this man an award
So we need to give Mr.Cadaro an award...any suggestions :P Marcus/Michael Villanova 22:36, June 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * Well, for a start, I am going to take a wikibreak of a couple of days probably. :P Cadaro (www.tonefactory.lo) 23:27, June 25, 2013 (UTC)

Hexacode
I took the liberty to decide that Districts will get a hexacode too :P This'll be a number, so, Hurbanova is OC-HU-01, Millstreet is OC-HU-MS, Dien Village'll be OC-HU-02, Newport-Forest -03, Overbanken-Forest -04, Scotland -05, Slowane -06, Southern Oceana -07 etc. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 08:39, June 26, 2013 (UTC)
 * Good idea :P 4kant,6FRÅGOR??? 09:04, June 26, 2013 (UTC)

I disagree. I think that each urban (Hurbanova and East Hills) and rural district should get the middle letters. Then, the last two letters should go to neighborhoods/hamlets/villages. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 21:00, June 26, 2013 (UTC)
 * Problem is, we ain't got enough letters. 'Cuz we'd need to redirect the last two as well. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 21:04, June 26, 2013 (UTC)
 * I guess that each hamlet can get numbers, but I still think that each district should receive a hexacode. Doesn't have to have a seal, though. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 21:10, June 26, 2013 (UTC)
 * Okay, that would be working :) --O u WTBsjrief-mich 21:15, June 26, 2013 (UTC)

Best would be: let the states decide on it :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 21:04, June 26, 2013 (UTC)

No, I'm not gonna be blocking here :P Just make up summink and surprise me :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 21:09, June 26, 2013 (UTC)

Help wanted (native Englishies)
Yes, those Oshenna names can be a pain in the ass to pronounce, so I wanted you guys to tell me what are good options to pronounce them :P A few, I've already made-up being logical: Some I can't figure out: Any suggestions? :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 14:39, June 26, 2013 (UTC)
 * Heighnow: HAY-no
 * Dubnitz: DUB-nits
 * Boynitz: BOY-nits
 * Topolcane: TOP-pəl-cane
 * Sternaw: STIR-naw
 * Righow
 * Vrabelvrutke
 * Orwnitz (OR-nits ?)
 * Dien Vilage
 * Bardeyow


 * Righow: RICK-ho
 * Vrabelvrutke: FRAB-əl FROOD-kay
 * Orwnitz: ORE-wən-nits
 * Dien village: DEEN VILL-əg
 * Bardeyow: BAR-dee-yo

Cadaro (www.tonefactory.lo) 14:46, June 26, 2013 (UTC)
 * Why "rick" if it's written with -g and "FRAB" if it's written with a v-? :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 14:47, June 26, 2013 (UTC)
 * Native englidh speaker who has no idea how to do it either. :P The Righow one, i'm guessing would be "Rye-how" Marcus/Michael Villanova 14:50, June 26, 2013 (UTC)
 * And we've got "vrayb-l-vrut-kay" and "ore-w-nits". Let's say we call it "Rio" :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 14:59, June 26, 2013 (UTC)


 * I personally would pronounce them as follows, if I was reading them as English words:

Hope this helps. :P --Semyon 14:58, June 26, 2013 (UTC)
 * Heighnow: HAY-now (now to rhyme with cow)
 * Dubnitz: DUB-nits (dub to rhyme with rub)
 * Boynitz: BOY-nits
 * Topolcane: TOP-pəl-cane seems reasonable, Top-pəl-KAA-nay is another option.
 * Sternaw: STIR-naw (naw to rhyme with saw)
 * Righow: RIG-how (rhymes with cow) or RYE-oh (rhymes with blow) or RIDGE-oh
 * Vrabelvrutke: Vrab-el-VRUT-Ke, however, I strongly suspect it would have a nickname, such as 'Vrutke. :P
 * Orwnitz OR-nits seems legit
 * Dien Village DEEN
 * Bardeyow Bar-DAY-oh
 * Mmm.... Perhaps we should just say everybody pronounces them differently.. :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 15:00, June 26, 2013 (UTC)
 * Not very likely from the linguistic point of view. :P You should bear in mind that the pronunciation would be affected by the original Oceana pronunciation as well (if an American moves into Norwich and starts pronouncing it NOR-witch he'll be corrected pretty quickly) so I suggest for the final ones you take that into account together with everyone's suggestions. --Semyon 15:05, June 26, 2013 (UTC)
 * Yeah, true :o Let those Sylvanian city bastards keep those wrong pronunciations :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 15:06, June 26, 2013 (UTC)

I like Semyon's list, except I prefer "di-en" (not sure which one to stress), and a silent e in Topolcane. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs)
 * Di-en? As in "dye-n" or "deer-n"? :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 15:08, June 26, 2013 (UTC)
 * It could potentially be pronounced as Deen or Dine or Dye-een, though I think the disyllabic pronunciation is a little unlikely myself. That's why the Oceana pronunciation becomes the deciding factor. :P --Semyon 15:12, June 26, 2013 (UTC)
 * Yeah... Non rhotic "deer" directly followed by "n" (sort of :P) --O u WTBsjrief-mich 15:13, June 26, 2013 (UTC)
 * Is that the Oceana pronunciation? If so, possible DEE-ən. :) --Semyon 15:16, June 26, 2013 (UTC)
 * Hahah, okay :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 15:19, June 26, 2013 (UTC)

Oos, I meant DEE-en. The dee in deer without any hint of the R at all, followed by the -en in hen. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 20:58, June 26, 2013 (UTC)
 * Woop.. Yeah, that's my British non-rhotic influence there :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 10:56, June 29, 2013 (UTC)

The story continues...
Now that we have completed the map, I noticed a lot of you are doing great work creating the new hamlets. I think we need to work on the following things in addition to "blue-ifying" the list of hamlets: In addition, I'd like to request all governors to work on a road system for their respective states, to ease the creation of a road map. If you do this in advance, I'd be very, very grateful. Cadaro (www.tonefactory.lo) 20:49, June 26, 2013 (UTC)
 * Rehaul of the Hexacode system. Oos already came up with a few ideas, but we should discuss this first to do this right the first time.
 * Rewriting parts of the state articles. Make a list of settlements, short description of the placement and structure of the settlements.
 * Creating state maps out of my Lovia-wide map. (This already happened in Clymene)
 * Create a nation-wide district system similar to Seven.
 * Adding the navigation template and (optional) a photo of the hamlet to the hamlet articles.
 * (optional) integrate the hamlets into other articles. That is as easy as pie. Try to mention them a few times.

As for the Hexacode, I think the first two letters should be the state, the second two the urban (town or city) or rural district, and the third two the neighborhood, the hamlet, or the village. I think all states have districts now, anyway. We probably should overhaul the seal templates so they include the last four letters (without the state label), not just two (they are currently either the middle or the end). I don't know how to make a good road map, the only one so far is Kunarian's and it looks like spaghetti. :/ Also, make a few of the hamlets be villages! We have more towns than villages right now. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 20:55, June 26, 2013 (UTC)
 * I don't need/want a road map (that destroys the creative process a little for me), I just want you to come up with a description of the road network. That is, which settlement is connected to which one, passing through which settlements. I highly recommend you don't meddle with the highways. I only want you to think of secondary road (no tertiary or smaller, I will come up with them myself, and they will remain unnamed). These roads will be called Bn[x], where [x] is to be replaeced with the K for Kings, S for Sylvania, O for Oceana, C for Clymene and SE for Seven; and where the "n" is a integer. Your idea for the hexacodes is good: STATE - (URBAN/RURAL) DISTRICT - HAMLET/NEIGHBORHOOD. Cadaro (www.tonefactory.lo) 21:03, June 26, 2013 (UTC)
 * Good. :P Maybe just "7" for Seven? And can you explain how you came up with Bn[x]? Does the B stand for secondary? —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 21:15, June 26, 2013 (UTC)
 * I don't particulary like to mix up numbers and letters, but in case of Seven I don't care :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 21:24, June 26, 2013 (UTC)
 * Secondary roads should be named CR1, CR2 etc. in Clymene, for Clymene Road. Local roads would have the designtion LR1, LR2 etc but they don't need to be named on the map.  HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 16:29, June 27, 2013 (UTC)

On your points. HOWEVER. I have made a roadmap with Highways and roads big and small (although I have left country lanes out) and I would politely ask you to try and keep to that, I don't mind some changes however and to be honest if you make the roads look more like roads than my lines (which roads are not like) that'd be great however again, please keep to the plan and follow the direction of the roads on my map. I am sorry if this damages the creative process in Sylvania, I truly am. Hoffmann Kunarian TALK 16:24, June 27, 2013 (UTC)
 * Fine with this idea, ready to rehaul, don't really care too much as long as it's simple and efficient.
 * Already on that.
 * I'd like to do that but I don't have a good enough picture editor to cut out Oceana and make it look good.
 * Already done.
 * Already planning to make some nice images for my articles.
 * And wilco on Hamlets.
 * I agree with Kunar on the map. Same problem :( --O u WTBsjrief-mich 17:39, June 27, 2013 (UTC)

Clymene Today Polling June 27 - June 28
Well Here's some more polling, only for two days...In the midst of all the action going on I did think the polling should continue. Again even if your from out of state you can vote, obviously because it's anon.
 * If the Clymene state election was held today who would you vote for?
 * J. Abrahams (Ind.) - 6
 * M. Villanova (RLP) - 5
 * F. Szohad (SDU) - 2
 * G. Underhill (GP) - 1
 * I Don't Know/Other - 3


 * If the Seven stat election was held today who would you vote for?
 * S. Breyev (Ind.) - 10
 * E. Taiyō (CDP) - 2
 * D. Leskromento (SCP) - 1
 * I Don't Know/Other - 4

Please vote :D Marcus/Michael Villanova 14:13, June 27, 2013 (UTC)

OWTB's questions
If the Oceana state election was held today who would you vote for? O.W. Ilava (CCPL) B. Koenen (ind.) P. West (RTP) I Don't Know/Other Should the Heretowland 'Oshenna and Donia Baronetcy be officialized? Yes, both the Heretowland and the Baronetcy. No, only the Heretowland. No, only the Baronetcy. No, none of them. Heheh, time to do some polling myself :P --`O u WTBsjrief-mich 11:39, June 28, 2013 (UTC)
 * :o 4kant,6FRÅGOR??? 11:40, June 28, 2013 (UTC)

Why does nobody want the Heretowland? :'( --O u WTBsjrief-mich 10:40, June 29, 2013 (UTC)


 * Oh a lot of people do! Heretowland and the Baronetcy are symbolical functions, cultural titles with no political impact. It is hard to object to them as they harm no one. The glorious First Consul of Rome (talk) 10:55, June 29, 2013 (UTC)
 * Hm. The votes for Heretowland and Barontecy went from 4 to 9 in a matter of minutes. Somebody using a proxy? Cadaro (www.tonefactory.lo) 10:57, June 29, 2013 (UTC)
 * Limburgish friends, Oshenna nationalists and Donia sympathisers? The glorious First Consul of Rome (talk) 10:58, June 29, 2013 (UTC)
 * Hahahaha :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 10:59, June 29, 2013 (UTC)
 * No but seriously, somebody is rigging this shit :P Cadaro (www.tonefactory.lo) 11:01, June 29, 2013 (UTC)
 * Proxy, she wrote, miss Marple. The glorious First Consul of Rome (talk) 11:03, June 29, 2013 (UTC)
 * Well, in this case it is literally 2+2=5. Cadaro (www.tonefactory.lo) 11:47, June 29, 2013 (UTC)

Hamlet pages
Who gets to create the pages for the new hamlets? It doesn't seem to exclusively be the governors. Is there any system for that? 77topaz (talk) 04:04, June 29, 2013 (UTC)
 * Well, the general principle of the wiki applies here. Everybody is allowed too, as long as it does not conflict any other contents or a user explicitly said he doesn't want other users to edit it and the rest of the community agrees. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 08:32, June 29, 2013 (UTC)~
 * I think everyone is allowed to create the hamlet pages, but it would be best to make your intents clear to the governor. That way, both can reach consensus on whay to do. Cadaro (www.tonefactory.lo) 10:38, June 29, 2013 (UTC)

So would anyone mind if I created a page for one of the new hamlets in Sylvania? Frijoles333 / Marcel Cebara (talk) 11:43, June 29, 2013 (UTC)
 * Oh, go ahead and create one. It is ok. Cadaro (www.tonefactory.lo) 11:45, June 29, 2013 (UTC)
 * Of course remember that I am slowly but surely going to come around and change things but help getting started and ideas would be greatly appreciated and ideas can be integrated. Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 12:08, June 29, 2013 (UTC)

Would it make sense for there to be some sort of mine near Centreville? And is the mine in Coal Town still active? 77topaz (talk) 21:26, June 29, 2013 (UTC)
 * Yes and Yes. Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 21:45, June 29, 2013 (UTC)
 * Is there a list of the populations of the hamlets in Kings, or not yet? 77topaz (talk) 00:34, June 30, 2013 (UTC)

Oh, and another note: it appears to be the case that "Albany" is on the map but not in the list? 77topaz (talk) 05:09, June 30, 2013 (UTC)

Additionally, "Windthorn" seems to appear in the list but not on the map, and isn't Lovia's highest mountain supposed to be in Kings (only the Emeralds and Clymene seem to feature the darkest mountain colour)? 77topaz (talk) 05:17, June 30, 2013 (UTC)
 * My guess was that Mount Emerald is the largest mountain. Clearly, Horton disagrees... I still think this is something that had to be discussed within the community though. - Originally, Mount Emerald was the largest mountain, but the Kings people decided otherwise . --O u WTBsjrief-mich 10:38, June 30, 2013 (UTC)
 * Well I just added the height. It was Yuri and DImitri who decided it, due to some volcanic hotspot activity seen in archipelagos (it was explained somewhere).  HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 13:24, July 1, 2013 (UTC)
 * I believe we should revert it. It's not in line with the maps, and it's just fixing one sentence :) --O u WTBsjrief-mich 13:51, July 1, 2013 (UTC)
 * It{s much more than that. I worked too hard on Kings' Peak and related pages to have it changed. And even you agreed to keep it that way (see the talk page). HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 15:07, July 1, 2013 (UTC)
 * Ow.. Forgot about that. Anyway, the pages involved are really not that difficult to change. Your work just needs a little editing that's all. I'm not sure if it's that easy when it comes to the map. One of those two has to be changed: either the map or the content pages. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 15:26, July 1, 2013 (UTC)
 * It's just a little color on the map that needs to be changed. HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 15:29, July 1, 2013 (UTC)
 * Or just a few words :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 21:44, July 1, 2013 (UTC)
 * Valid point. I have better things to do than... O no, wait, I don't. Cadaro (www.tonefactory.lo) 22:02, July 1, 2013 (UTC)

Windthorn was changed to Nordhorn. I think that having Kings Peak as the tallest mountain is silly, and it's not even shown on any of the elevation maps - either Cadaro's or Yuri's. So let's reverse that and change the tallest mountain back to Mount Emerald. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 13:40, June 30, 2013 (UTC)

Two previous statements that may have gone unnoticed: the settlement "Albany" appears on the map but not in the settlement list, and, does a list of the populations of the Kings hamlets already exist? Also, when creating a hamlet page, is it best to create it in the userspace first until the governor approves it, or is that not necessary? 77topaz (talk) 03:45, July 1, 2013 (UTC)
 * Good catch on Albany. I updated all the relevant articles and lists. Regarding your question: You are allowed to create a hamlet page directly on the wiki. Cadaro (www.tonefactory.lo) 11:15, July 1, 2013 (UTC)

OWTB's compie
As OWTB is experiencing a few compie problems, he's switched to his painstakingly slow mini-laptop. For any questions, I'll be at the chat. :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 11:21, June 29, 2013 (UTC)
 * Ah, the old days of dial-up modems. I distinctly remember our family's Windows 95-running bakbeest. Cadaro (www.tonefactory.lo) 22:03, July 1, 2013 (UTC)
 * Hahaha, yeah, I'm actually that old that I still remember Windows 3.11 and the good ole' MS-DOS era with the opstartfloppy :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 10:12, July 2, 2013 (UTC)

Vote Moss for a better Charleston


Jane Moss has worked tirelessly with Marcel Cebara to form the Charleston Educational Trust, of which she is deputy chairperson, dedicating herself to providing education opportunities and better schools to the people of Charleston.

Having lived in Charleston her whole life, Jane knows and understands the issues and concerns at the hearts of the people of Charleston.

She supports local businesses and state devolution, giving people a bigger say about the communities they live in. She will represent the people of Charleston, bringing their views to a state level to develop the town further.

If you want you want a local council that understands the key issues of Charleston and has the tools solve them, then VOTE LABOUR IN CHARLESTON ON JULY 1

Will support :D Marcus/Michael Villanova 18:21, June 29, 2013 (UTC)

Thank you! :D Frijoles333 / Marcel Cebara (talk) 18:24, June 29, 2013 (UTC)
 * So, we can vote today? Where do we vote? Cadaro (www.tonefactory.lo) 11:16, July 1, 2013 (UTC)

CHARLESTON LOCAL ELECTIONS - POLLING STATIONS OPEN
Vote, vote, vote! Click! :D Hoffmann Kunarian TALK 17:15, July 1, 2013 (UTC)
 * Do I have to live in Charleston to vote? Cadaro (www.tonefactory.lo) 22:03, July 1, 2013 (UTC)
 * No, you get a minor vote and a support vote because you have inhabited Sylvania for more than two months but are not in the headlands area. Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 22:07, July 1, 2013 (UTC)
 * Not to vote for a man named Charles in a town named Charlestown almost seems like a crime to me. Charlestown belongs to Bennett like Oceana belongs to Oos and Labour, with all due respect, has nothing to seek there. There's always Clymene. I just hope Mr. Bennett respect The Clan's autonomy over the Highlands.The glorious First Consul of Rome (talk) 08:01, July 2, 2013 (UTC)
 * I think the Highlands are part of the Clave Rock area. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 09:43, July 2, 2013 (UTC)
 * To vote for someone based on their name seems a bit... stupid to me. :P 77topaz (talk) 10:08, July 2, 2013 (UTC)
 * I think In the debate posted later you'll see how Marcel has done alot for Charleston and can continue doing more. Marcus/Michael Villanova 14:18, July 2, 2013 (UTC)

Local Election Debate - A Poolmedia broadcast
Broadcast 1st of July from 10:00pm til 11:25pm from a local church in Charleston with a local audience

Transcript
Debate Master
 * "Hello and welcome everyone, now to begin with each candidate will make a short statement on who they are and what they think they can bring to the local council. Charles, you first."

Charles
 * "I believe in a town that can stand among the cities of Lovia as a economic giant, that's not dependent upon heavy amounts of government spending to have a beautiful and industrious city. I've grown up on a farm, I've waited by the beaches for my father to return from sea, like most of Charleston we've all grown up before what Charleston is today. We used to be a small town, dependent on fishing and incoming goods from the farms in the Headlands, now look at us, we have grown, lets keep that growth coming."

Debate Master
 * "Thank you, now Jane shall make her opening statement"

Jane
 * "Hello! I am Jane Moss of the Labour Party and I am a proud citizen of this town. I believe that is has come far in the past few years, and if elected to town council I want to ensure that Charleston continues to grow and flourish in the future. I want to develop local business in the town, to continue its prosperity and growth. I believe that I am suited to sit on the town council, as having lived in the town a all my life, I know what needs to be done and how to do it, thank you."

Debate Master
 * "Thank you miss moss, now onto the first point of debate, I'll tell you the point, each candidate will give a short statement then after I give the word you may debate, for two minutes, the point. Education is the first subject, Charleston has a young population in need of proper education, while we have the academy and charity schools, what positions do you take on progressing with education in Charleston?"

Jane
 * "Well, I believe that Charleston currently has an excellent provision of educational institutions, including Charleston Academy and the two schools established by the Charleston Educational Trust, and that no further construction of schools is needed. Therefore I believe that we should focus on ensuring that there is a high quality of teaching in all schools and that a balanced curriculum is preparing young people for careers in Charleston's booming industries, or progression to high quality universities, thank you."

Charles
 * "Looking at the amount of children in the area, I can carefully propose that we need one unified building, taking kids in from K-12. We do not need another library here in Charleston or learning center, that of the Morgan Center is now competing with Charleston Academy for visitors. We need to have just one community center for everyone to enjoy, having two sites is unnecessary. We need to teach our children a high curriculum not only on being prepared for the workforce but to make the world a better place, and I believe the future of Charleston is very bright, and we can keep that beacon going without breaking our budget."

Debate Master
 * "Thank you, you may now debate if you wish for two minutes."

Charles
 * "If I may add, I'd also like to see our school be city ran, instead of a private institution."

Jane
 * "Charles, I agree that it is necessary to keep a beacon burning without breaking our budget, however having extra educational provision through the Charleston Educational Trust is at no extra cost to the taxpayer, being a charity."

Debate Master
 * "I'll give an extra minute for debate."

Jane
 * "Why would you like a city ran school? thank you sir."

Charles
 * "That is not entirely correct, our money goes to the Sylvania State government whom has given the group grants."

Jane
 * "A small donation was given to the trust by Governor Hoffmann but the vast majority of the trusts money comes from private donors."

Debate Master
 * "Debate ending in 30."

Charles
 * "I want to say my child learned at a public school, not at some charity program."

Jane
 * "Being a charity doesn't stop the trust providing a quality service."

Debate Master
 * "Thank you the debate it now closed. The next issue is the economy, Charleston is experiencing a slight downturn as a result of the national depression, what do each of you propose to do to rejuvinate the local economy? short statements now please"

Jane
 * "I propose that small businesses are encouraged and supported by the local government, and that Charleston's resources such as farmland and fishing is encouraged, as well as trade with other parts of Lovia in these important areas. I think that Charleston can soon overcome the recent downturn through employing these measures"

Charles
 * "Just recently I've talked to a Noble City business man to found a new branch of his Telecommunications NATCom, I'm positive this new branch will create many new high paying jobs. I've also brought in the Charleston and Port Company which has founded its largest warehouse in downtown Charleston and has provided so many jobs to Charleston. We need to keep this going with a positive local atmosphere that will attract new companies to come and help build Charleston. Labour has had a record of raising taxes and putting regulations on companies which have made business hard."

Debate Master
 * "Thank you for your statements, if you wish debate may now begin, three minutes will be granted due to the length of the last debate."

Jane
 * "How have Labour put regulations on companies. Our party supports new business ventures, both for large companies and small."

Charles
 * "Labour is the typical socialist party, putting high taxes on incoming companies and spends high. Don't deny it."

Debate Master
 * "1 and a half minutes left"

Charles
 * "And Labour wants taxes on cars that use gas! Most farmers our here use gas trucks that take in more then any city dweller could imagine!"

Jane
 * "The party one regulates companies to ensure they are playing by the rules. We always encourage business, especially if it'll have positive implications on our economies."

Charles
 * "Play by the rules?"

Jane
 * "We also encourage farming, as it boosts the local economy"

Debate Master
 * "Last 30 seconds"

Charles
 * "Thats not even a valid answer, never did I ask about corporate responsibility, Labour and all your socialist buddies want larger taxes for us."

Debate Master
 * "The debate now ends"

Jane
 * "Not true!"

Debate Master
 * "Thank you. Now we will move onto the third and final point before personal policy statements. Culture is the final topic, local cultures are now being encouraged by the government in a way unseen in many years, how will you work with the State Government to build on Charleston's culture? Short statements to begin."

Jane
 * "I certainly believe that culture is a very important aspect and I would do everything possible to encourage it. I have already worked to build on the towns culture, by facilitating cultural and historical events at the Morgan Center. Just to give an example, I would like to work with the State Government to create more cultural events, and encourage existing ones such as Charleston's pineapple festival. Thank you."

Charles
 * "I've worked day and night to give Charleston a voice in Noble City, a voice that matches our striving spirit for liberty and choice. I've been supporting the idea of liberalism in Charleston for a long time now, I believe it's a political ideology that sets well with most Charleston and Headland citizens. We are farmers and we go to church, and I'm sure everyone here wants to pass that down to our children, I sure do."

Debate Master
 * "Thank you for your statements, three minutes will again be granted for debate, you may begin now if you wish"

Charles
 * "Let me just add, meditation does not count as going to church on Sunday."

Debate Master
 * "2 minutes left for debate"

Jane
 * "Just because I don't attend church, doesn't mean I cannot be an effective politician for my town"

Charles
 * "Never did I say that."

Debate Master
 * "1 minute left for debate"

Charles
 * "I'm saying that alot of people of Charleston should have someone like them."

Jane
 * "Like who?"

Charles
 * "I go to church with alot of my voters, and its an enjoyable event to talk to people - I'm sorry? You do realize we have two churches in Charleston right?"

Debate Master
 * "an extra minute granted for debate"

Charles
 * "Do you think they are empty?"

Jane
 * "Yes but many of Charleston's citizens do bot attend church, and it is vital to provide cultural events for them too."

Debate Master
 * "The debate now ends."

Charles
 * "I disagree, many of the town is religious and do attend."

Debate Master
 * "Thank you."

Jane
 * "Yes but some do not"

Debate Master
 * "Thank you, miss Moss, if we may proceed."

Jane
 * "I apologise"

Debate Master
 * "Onto the last part of the evening, each candidate will make a short statement on a policy they will focus on while in office, then we will take questions from the audience with the time left. Please make your statements now."

Charles
 * "In my term I will focus on the issue of fiscal responsibility, forming a model for the rest of the country to follow. I've lifted countless hay bails, and ploughed many fields, I've done the many actions the common people have done. I do not listen to a leader of a party, nor do I follow the strings. I march to my own drum, I march to one beat, I follow one sound, that sound is the people."

Jane
 * "In office I wish to focus on develop on Charleston's culture and economy, through providing cultural events and programmes that allow the whole town to come together, not just a select few. I also wish to help boost the towns economy by encouraging farming and fishing industries in the town, and giving small benefits to small, green companies to further boost growth."

Debate Master
 * "Thank you both, now we turn to the audience."

Charles
 * "You just said you wanted to bring the town together not just a select few, but then you said giving benefits to a few. Labour for you."

Jane
 * "Excuse me?"

Debate Master
 * "Excuse me, there will be no debates on these points, we will now be turning to the audience for questions. Please refrain."

Charles
 * "Endless hypocrisy, Labour specialize in it. Sorry."

Debate Master
 * "Thank you, if we may continue to take questions from the audience."

Audience
 * "Since joining the IWO Lovia has seen an increase in immigration from other wikinations, particularly Mäöres. In the event of an influx of immigrants from one of these nations into Charleston, how would you deal with the challenges that they would pose, particularly in regard to integration into Charleston's society?"

Debate Master
 * "Please answer in a short statement each. I must ask for no debate, this time is allotted to the locals concerns."

Charles
 * "Being born from immigrants, I see this as a great part of Charleston's idea of bringing everyone from every corner of the world. Our downtown Plaza shows that very well. I decided to Anglicize my name when I was about twelve, because none of my friends could say it. But yes, thank you for that question."

Jane
 * "I believe that it is very important that immigrants integrate into society, but are also given the help and support they need to integrate. I believe we can do this by providing programmes to help immigrants learn english if its not their first language, allowing them to participate in Lovian society, benefiting everyone concerned through increased cultural diversity and economic gains"

Debate Master
 * "Thank you, another question from the audience."

Audience
 * "If you are on the Local Council, will you keep or close schools, even if they are charity funded, that keep with regulations and offer education to Charleston and the West of Sylvania?"

Debate Master
 * "short answers please as we will grant this member a second question in a minute."

Jane
 * "I believe that we should not even consider closing any schools in Charleston, providing they are delivering a high quality education to the young people of charleston and meet government regulations on curriculum and child safety and they are not at an excessive cost to the taxpayer"

Charles
 * "I will reform our schools, not close them. We need to have one united public school that our citizens can say "Yea, I took part in teaching my kids, not a charity program." We have pride here, and our pride is to make something of our children, not have others do that for us."

Jane
 * "Just because it comes from a charity program, doesn't mean it is not good education"

Charles
 * "Never did I say that."

Debate Master
 * "no debate please. Another question from the audience"

Audience
 * "I am a local resident, I've lived in Charleston all my life and feel a greater devotion to the West more than Noble city, do you support Western Independence?"

Debate Master
 * "Answer now please"

Charles
 * "I still would like to see an independent Western Sylvania, I currently support our Governor and his actions, thus I'm quite divided on the issue."

Jane
 * "Well, our party has always supported devolution and allowing the people to make important decisions regarding important issues such as this, and I believe that the people of Western Sylvania be allowed to vote on their future, whether it involves devolution or independence. thank you."

Debate Master
 * "Now we have a question on the monarchy from the audience."

Audience
 * "I would also like to know the people's position on Dimitri's questionable functioning as King"

Debate Master
 * "Again short statements are best."

Charles
 * "I'm a republican, and I would like to see republicanism grown here in Western Sylvania, thus I may be seen a quite the rebel when I come to say I don't see that blood and genetics makes you better then anyone else, nor do they qualify you to wear a gold crown."

Audience
 * (Cheers)

Jane
 * "Well I have heard many differing views on this matter, and I believe a referendum should be held in the near future and any transition should be peacefully. Personally, I would support a republic but am open to listen to different views on the matter."

Debate Master
 * "Thank you both of you."

Jane
 * "And I agree that blood and genetics don't make you a better person."

Debate Master
 * "We've run out of time now, I hope that this gives all in Charleston a greater insight on the issue."

Comments
Feel free to comment on last nights program. :) Hoffmann Kunarian TALK 17:10, July 2, 2013 (UTC)

Good speeches by everybody! All I have to say, I like that Bennett supports public schools, we do need a balance between public and private. But is having one massive school really good? A first grader has much different needs than that of someone preparing for university, and a single school is likely to get rid of some aspects seen in smaller schools. Like the governor said, we do have many children coming in from both the country and city, and it's best to have several varied schools to meet the needs of all. HORTON11 : •  17:26, July 2, 2013 (UTC)

I think Jane Moss did amazing, cool, calm and too the point. Marcus/Michael Villanova 17:27, July 2, 2013 (UTC)


 * 'It was interesting to watch the debate unfold live and to read through the transcript afterwards. My personal impression was that Charles was much more confident and assertive, whereas Jane was deferent and polite, seeming more comfortable in the role of underdog. Charles performed better rhetorically and appealed well to local sentiment, but some of his more caustic comments could have been off-putting to parts of the electorate. In my view, the content of Jane's answers was superior to that of Charles, and overall I'd say she was the winner of the debate.' --Semyon 17:39, July 2, 2013 (UTC)
 * 'The debate was a hard fought one by both candidates. While in my opinion Charles definitely won the debate amongst, he may have put off some of the electorate with his much more aggressive tone. Jane Moss while polite still must define her policies and really commit to them before I believe she can truly run Charleston, until then Charles is first choice.' (I like commenting too! :D Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 17:56, July 2, 2013 (UTC)
 * 'Jane Moss played a very good game last night. Charles while being the "son" of Charleston was going into the night as the favorite as he always claimed he had done much for the town. Last night showed that he has a temper and Jane realized this very early on. She poked but not proded his policies on education and culture and while maybe not sharing the majority opinion, Charles' claims and outbursts made it seem like Jane was the cool, calm and collective candidate that could help save Charleston in any case. While the jury will be out on who the voters think has the better policies or represents the culture of Chareslton, Jane Moss has showed her stateswomen like manner yesterday, and was the winner of the debate." Marcus/Michael Villanova 18:08, July 2, 2013 (UTC)
 * I think that this is incredibly tabloid-like, it's one thing to make a statements on the debate and give a judgement on who you think won the debate however to be so biased and try and falsely present Charles in such a manner is quite dishonest and misleading of you. Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 18:28, July 2, 2013 (UTC)
 * Not really, he made such statements like "Let me just add, meditation does not count as going to church on Sunday." and "I go to church with alot of my voters, and its an enjoyable event to talk to people - I'm sorry? You do realize we have two churches in Charleston right?". Commenting on how Jane Moss (marcel actually) is an athiest and meditates and attacking his personal beliefs. Another was the attack on Labour early on. Grant it that yes its Party politics and he can attack it, but used false claims against the Party, attacking it when not even provoked, and against what he said we've tried pulling back regulations recently. (something you'd agree with?) And then saying "You just said you wanted to bring the town together not just a select few, but then you said giving benefits to a few. Labour for you." when the comment made previously by Jane Moss was about Labour's policy on supporting tax breaks for green companies. His manner was a tad agressive and out there. Marcus/Michael Villanova 18:53, July 2, 2013 (UTC)
 * First of all, I would have thought you liking a laugh would have enjoyed that joke even if it did have undertones. And I hardly think you should be the first to call people out for attacking personal beliefs. And Charles is quite anti-party politics, he also understandably is against the idea that Labour should be in Charleston and so has attacked your policies and raised awareness of them to the Charleston populace, no need for provocation when the idea is to criticise your opponents although both of you could try being more constructive. On his comment on Green energy, he was making a point that Marcel said that he wanted to work for all but would give benefits to green companies (and it sounded like green companies only), which he considered hypocritical, a fair point really. And yes it was however you seem to have tried to paint him as more angry than simply aggressive and there is a difference between the two. Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 19:03, July 2, 2013 (UTC)
 * I understand he is, talking to him personally hes a "Conservative Democrat" not playing to one party or ideology, which is very respectable. He's very nice I just thought a bit agressive last night, that's jsut the tone I got. Well have to agree to disagree though. Marcus/Michael Villanova 19:13, July 2, 2013 (UTC)
 * We will. Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 19:20, July 2, 2013 (UTC)

Yeah I agree with Horton in that there should be several varied schools to meet everyone's needs as it would be impractical for kindergarteners to attend the same school as college students! Also thank you to Kunarian for organising and moderating the debate. I really enjoyed it :D Frijoles333 / Marcel Cebara (talk) 17:54, July 2, 2013 (UTC)
 * No problem. Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 17:56, July 2, 2013 (UTC)

Everbody we need to do a big celebration because it's almost the independence day in 9 july. --Granero (talk) 03:31, July 3, 2013 (UTC)
 * You must be confused with Brunant. BUt now that we're on the subject, you guys should check out my government website. Still a WIP but I think it's one of my best sites yet. HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 17:26, July 4, 2013 (UTC)

Lovian Times Polling 5-6 July
Elections
 * 5-6 July 2013 - If a Federal Election happened tomorrow who would you give a major vote to?
 * 3 - Conservative Christian Party of Lovia
 * 1 - Social Christian Party
 * 1 - Social Liberal Party
 * 2 - Green Party
 * 2 - Conservative Nationalist Party
 * 2 - Labour Party
 * 2 - Other


 * 5-6 July 2013 - If a Federal Election happened tomorrow who would you give a minor vote to?
 * 1 - Conservative Christian Party of Lovia
 * 1 - Social Christian Party
 * 1 - Social Liberal Party
 * 4 - Green Party
 * 4 - Conservative Nationalist Party
 * 1 - Labour Party
 * 1 - Other


 * 5-6 July - If a Federal Election happened tomorrow who would you give a support vote to?
 * 2 - Conservative Christian Party of Lovia
 * 1 - Social Christian Party
 * 1 - Social Liberal Party
 * 2 - Green Party
 * 3 - Conservative Nationalist Party
 * 2 - Labour Party
 * 1 - Other

Approval
 * 5-6 July - Do you approve or disapprove of the Government's record to date?
 * 7 - Approve
 * 4 - Disapprove
 * 1 - Don't Know

Comments
I hope you didn't think I'd forgotten about this. ;) Hoffmann Kunarian TALK 16:26, July 5, 2013 (UTC)

Clymene Today Polling July 5-7th
Tbh forgot about it until I saw Kunarian's awesome polling. Same question, same thing, just vote. Marcus/Michael Villanova 21:33, July 5, 2013 (UTC)
 * If the Clymene state election was held today who would you vote for?
 * J. Abrahams (Ind.) - 4
 * M. Villanova (RLP)  - 4
 * F. Szohad (SDU)  - 3
 * G. Underhill (GP) - 1
 * I don't know - 1
 * If the Seven state election was held today who would you vote for?
 * S. Breyev (Ind.) - 7
 * E. Taiyo (CDP) - 1
 * D. Leskromento (SCP) - 1
 * I don't know - 4


 * He isn't CNP yet... Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 07:07, July 8, 2013 (UTC)

Wanted pages
You know what to do, guys: Special:WantedPages. I repeat it once again: everyone is allowed to create hamlet pages. Cadaro (www.tonefactory.lo) 15:05, July 9, 2013 (UTC)

Clymene Polling July 11th - July 13th
Another poll, you know the dealio. One little comment if 77topaz if reading this can you ask George if hes running again in Clymene because hes been inactive since January so I just wanna know if hes in or out.

Anyway vote! Marcus/Michael Villanova 04:13, July 11, 2013 (UTC)
 * If the Clymene state election was held today who would you vote for?
 * J. Abrahams (Ind.) - 4
 * M. Villanova (RLP) - 4
 * F. Szohad (SDU) - 6
 * G. Underhill (GP) - 1
 * I dont know - 0
 * If the Seven state election was held today who would you vote for?
 * S. Breyev (Ind.) - 7
 * E. Taiyo (CDP) - 2
 * D. Leskromento (SCP) - 4
 * I don't know - 2

The Spire
Interested in housing your business in world-class offices or looking to live in the highest residences in the IWO? Then look no further, cause you can have all that and more at The Spire, ready for occupance from July 2013. Visit us at here @ www.spirethetower.bt or contact us here. HORTON11 : •  15:28, July 11, 2013 (UTC)


 * BTW, is anyone interested in operating/having the highest restaurant in the IWO? It would be for the 44th story of The Spire.  HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 18:47, July 12, 2013 (UTC)

Could I operate it? I'd love to expand my business to Brunant Frijoles333 / Marcel Cebara (talk) 18:48, July 12, 2013 (UTC)


 * Sure. Preferrably it should be something more upscale and modern, cause you know something like a McDonalds wouldn't fit in a place like this.  HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 18:52, July 12, 2013 (UTC)

Yes of course, I'll be coming over to Brunant soon and I'm gonna make it an elegant, modern European influenced restaurant Frijoles333 / Marcel Cebara (talk) 18:54, July 12, 2013 (UTC)


 * Great! We can add it later to The Spire's website.  HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 18:57, July 12, 2013 (UTC)


 * Can Lewis Media has a Brunanter office on the 24th floor? Wabba The I (talk) 20:14, July 12, 2013 (UTC)
 * Sure, but are you planning to expand to Brunant?  HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 20:19, July 12, 2013 (UTC)
 * Cause it wouldn't make sense to have your HQ in a country where you have no presence.  HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 13:32, July 13, 2013 (UTC)

Lovian Times Polling 11-12 July
Elections
 * 11-12 July 2013 - If a Federal Election happened tomorrow who would you give a major vote to?
 * 6 - Conservative Christian Party of Lovia
 * 0 - Social Christian Party
 * 2 - Social Liberal Party
 * 4 - Green Party
 * 4 - Conservative Nationalist Party
 * 5 - Labour Party
 * 2 - Other


 * 11-12 July 2013 - If a Federal Election happened tomorrow who would you give a minor vote to?
 * 2 - Conservative Christian Party of Lovia
 * 0 - Social Christian Party
 * 1 - Social Liberal Party
 * 5 - Green Party
 * 6 - Conservative Nationalist Party
 * 7 - Labour Party
 * 2 - Other


 * 11-12 July 2013 - If a Federal Election happened tomorrow who would you give a support vote to?
 * 4 - Conservative Christian Party of Lovia
 * 1 - Social Christian Party
 * 5 - Social Liberal Party
 * 5 - Green Party
 * 1 - Conservative Nationalist Party
 * 5 - Labour Party
 * 1 - Other

Approval
 * 11-12 July 2013 - Do you approve or disapprove of the Government's record to date?
 * 12 - Approve
 * 7 - Disapprove
 * 3 - Don't Know

Flavour Polling
 * 11-12 July 2013 - Do you think the Conservative Nationalist Party should change their name to the National Liberal Party?
 * 2 - Yes
 * 11 - No, I prefer Conservative Nationalist
 * 5 - No, I prefer another name
 * 3 - Don't Know

Comments
Interesting flavour polling up and coming! :D Hoffmann Kunarian TALK 15:35, July 11, 2013 (UTC)

Don't you think all these polls are overly excessive. Once a month is fine. HORTON11 : •  15:51, July 11, 2013 (UTC)
 * No, but maybe we need a forum for polling? Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 16:46, July 11, 2013 (UTC)
 * No, please, no more new useless forums (like Speaker's Corner). It's good the way it is :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 09:13, July 12, 2013 (UTC)

Heh, looks like the (CCPL?) proxies arrived again. :P 77topaz (talk) 09:39, July 12, 2013 (UTC)
 * No, then it would've been like 12 more at each vote :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 09:41, July 12, 2013 (UTC)
 * There are also some Labour proxies this time. :P —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 16:02, July 12, 2013 (UTC)
 * Yes... Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 21:28, July 14, 2013 (UTC)

I think these polls have gotten so riddled by sockpuppets that we maybe should just do a vote where you write each of the parties you vote for non-anonymously. :s —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 16:00, July 12, 2013 (UTC)
 * It's just polls. And besides, my Sovereign Democratic Union is still not included in the options, so I don't care for the polls. If the SDU is ignored in the media, than that's unfair exposure for the rest of the party spectrum. Cadaro (www.tonefactory.lo) 16:03, July 12, 2013 (UTC)
 * Only the parties with a significant amount of seats in Congress are included, since SDU doesn't have a large amount of support in-character yet (and out of character as well, it only has one real member :P), it isn't included currently. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 16:09, July 12, 2013 (UTC)
 * Exactly, however the results of the State elections will be taken into account, a weighing will be done and if the SDU get's into the top 6 (I'm expanding it to 6) it will be in polling but it'll need a really good performance. Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 21:28, July 14, 2013 (UTC)

I do think that the SDU should be in the polls, seeing as they are quite a big political party :) Frijoles333 / Marcel Cebara (talk) 16:05, July 12, 2013 (UTC)

Szohad your always included in my polls :P don't worry Coalition for Clymene will put SDU on the Map and into the spotlight :D Marcus/Michael Villanova 16:19, July 12, 2013 (UTC)

Back from your wikibreak already are you? :D Frijoles333 / Marcel Cebara (talk) 16:21, July 12, 2013 (UTC)

Haa lol, I'll do the Clymene polling then be off for 2-3 days. Marcus/Michael Villanova 16:36, July 12, 2013 (UTC)

Also i wish we had that many supporters even if you take me and frijoles and then a logout vote would equal four then maybe horton votes for us somewhere down the polling...idk still wish we had that much support irl :P Marcus/Michael Villanova 16:19, July 13, 2013 (UTC)

I voted Labour in one of the sections, CCPL in the other. HORTON11 : •  16:23, July 13, 2013 (UTC)

Diving
Can someone give me two male and one female divers from Lovia for competing at the 2013 IWO Games? Wabba The I (talk) 17:59, July 12, 2013 (UTC)

Come up with some random realistic names, we don't have any right now. :P —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 20:23, July 12, 2013 (UTC)
 * Craig Joyce
 * Lana Dupont
 * Steven Patrick
 * Will flash-create the accompanying articles. Cadaro (www.tonefactory.lo) 21:23, July 12, 2013 (UTC)


 * Thank you! Wabba The I (talk) 21:26, July 12, 2013 (UTC)
 * done. Cadaro (www.tonefactory.lo) 21:31, July 12, 2013 (UTC)

I'm back, and I've got something philosophical
And you've thought you'd seen the last of me... :D I'm just letting everyone know that I plan to be a little more active from now on. This means that I might start by contributing a few new lore articles every now, particularly stuff involving CE, and Costello will be returning to politics (of course). I understand that a few new users may have joined in my absence, who may or may not know of me, so I'll reintroduce myself a little. My political alignment is much the same as its always been, strongly libertarian and pro-free market. I am still the chairman of Positive Lovia, and with some support I hope to see my party make a comeback. And yes, I have retained my awesomeness throughout my absence... honed it, you could say, preparing to make my return as spectacular as possible.

I know that after all my time away, I'm in no position to be making serious proposals again right off the bat. Nevertheless, I intend to bring up a huge issue that bothered me a little before my leave of absence. It is nothing personal or slightly related to me, just something to ponder. It's regarding wiki policy, nothing political. But that's kind of the point I'm getting too. I call it separation of wiki and state. Theres always been a bit of misunderstanding between users regarding wether the wiki was to serve as a (fictional, of course) source of documentation regarding Lovia, or wether everything we do was irrevocably linked to our characters as though we are constantly roleplaying, even when we aren't intentfully acting as our characters. Naturally, as this is a wiki, things would operate smoother if we stuck with the former. I haven't seen any serious issue arise from this problem yet, but it has a huge potential to cause them. Apparently, there was a time when we prosecuted users, as their characters for the actions of their users (complicated, isn't it?). For the sake of not stirring up old controversies, I won't mention any explicitly. Another example is if a character was to commit a crime in Lovia, the police might not instantly be aware of it "because its on the wiki." I'm not using this because we're criminals, but because its a sloppy policy and it takes a battering ram to the fourth wall. Doing things my way would allow for story writing and roleplaying to coexist, and I practice it on other wikis that I administrate.

Moral to the story is: for lack of official rules against it, we have a tendency to blur the lines between our fumbles and our character's political fumbles. Wether or not we get our way, I'd like it if that in official Wikination namespace, we draw some boundaries to determine the relationship between player and player character in this game to avoid future mishaps.

Your bestest friend, P.S. - I'm back — Christopher Costello (Pikapi • Chat  • What's up ) 23:34, July 13, 2013 (UTC)

Welcome! (Was it my message that brought you back :P?) I too have had the same problem recently, tbh unless you say it blatantly like (THIS IS MY CHARACTER I AM SPEAKING AS HIM) its kinda hard. Also raising other questions like "why can't I just forget this character and switch to a new one" (tbh I wanna do this so badly, but afraid of the backlash) or have many  which would just be a odd mix of schizo users. Idk, but the wiki is mostly geared towards historical, economical, and (mainly) political reasoning. So that is settled, but idk the character question is a good one to bring up. Marcus/Michael Villanova 23:52, July 13, 2013 (UTC)

First, welcome back! :) Second, mmm.. I'm not really into official regulations :P I think the main reason why people have been blocked in more recent times was either rudeness in words, vandalism, or offensive racism. All those are things you'll be blocked for on any other wiki. In the old days, it was just pure revenge :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 08:38, July 14, 2013 (UTC)

Welcome back (even if you don't know who I am!) and some very interesting points! I've also been thinking about the line between the user (real) and the character (fictional), and to what extent there is a boundary between the two Frijoles333 / Marcel Cebara (talk) 10:11, July 14, 2013 (UTC)


 * I'm glad I'm not the only one. Firstly, I'm not suggesting that we should have to specify when we are acting out the parts of our characters. It's just, does this very conversation that we are having now count as us, or our characters, or both? In-universe, our characters naturally wouldn't even know the wiki exists (I think). On the other hand, sometimes we are acting out our characters and then we get "out-of-universe"-like replies. One possible solution would to be to dedicate forums for in-universe and out-of-universe speaking. The big thing is that we all decide upon drawing a fictional line somewhere, and document it as a wiki policy to avoid confusion. Secondly, it appears we only have the basic, simplified ruleset in terms of "official" wiki regulation (and its still listed as under construction). Don't you think we could flesh things out just a little more, like with a manual of style, or an article layout guide, etc.? And yep Marcus, you and Kunarian brought me back to life. :D — Christopher Costello (Pikapi • Chat  • What's up ) 14:21, July 14, 2013 (UTC)
 * "This just in Christopher Costello claims he was revived by Lukas Hoffmann and Marcus Villanova. After a brief conversation with Villanova, Costello collapsed and went into cardiac arrest just as Lukas Hoffmann arrived on the scene. Both were skilled in first aid and so Costello's revival was quick. After this experience he claims that we must not break the fourth wall and suggests that instead we be more definitive in what is OOC and IC, medical experts are claiming that this short term insanity is due to shock." < So you want more of this?
 * Welcome back! :D Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 21:19, July 14, 2013 (UTC)

I totally agree. And yes, it would be a good idea to have dedicated forums for in character and out of character.

Also, I was thinking, is where the boundary lies between character and user the same for everyone, or is it something flexible that can be decided by every individual? Frijoles333 / Marcel Cebara (talk) 14:28, July 14, 2013 (UTC)
 * Speakers corner is mostly in character normally while the pub mostly not, no hardline rules are really needed. Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 21:19, July 14, 2013 (UTC)


 * I'd prefer that the users have complete leverage to roleplay and non-roleplay as they please, as long as they do so in the respective environment (roleplaying-based discussion, real world-based discussion). We should make it official that the wiki is not a directory of knowledge in-universe, but a place for us to both roleplay and document Lovia from a third-person omniscient point-of-view (hence wiki). On a related note, there should also be regulations regarding how much impact the nation would have on an international scale. Naturally, Lovia's existence would have slight repercussions on history. Even if we choose the most isolationist path and choose to connect mainly with other wiki-nations, we will have some impact. Even if its as simple as us restructuring the scores of the Olympic Games from now on to wedge some Lovian athletes into the charts. Tiny changes to account for our history is nothing that we can't handle. — Christopher Costello  (Pikapi • Chat  • What's up ) 14:53, July 14, 2013 (UTC)
 * Why would the wiki (main namespace) not be written from an in-universe standpoint? That's the point of it. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 15:06, July 14, 2013 (UTC)
 * Be cautious: overregulation is very easy. I'm 100% sure that separate forums for non-role and in-role is not going to work. Pretty much like Speaker's Corner isn't well-used either. I'm very satisfied with the current way each user has one main character and several less-important ones. It leaves room to play with and everything is clear (principle of overview).
 * To get back on the "international interwovenness": I'm not contra this, but I do see a major problem arising. We've got tens of wikinations. If Lovia gets scores in the Olympics f.e., so should Mäöres, Brunant, Libertas, Adlibita, etc, etc. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 19:09, July 14, 2013 (UTC)
 * That is why I have invented the IWO Games so that athletes from our nations at least hav something t o aim for without changing the history too much Pierlot McCrooke 20:03, July 14, 2013 (UTC)
 * What is the canon reason that are main allies are a couple of random, tiny nations scattered across the world? Why would it called the International Wiki Organisation in-universe? — Christopher Costello (Pikapi • <font color=#2E6FFD>Chat  • <font color=#2E6FFD>What's up ) 12:31, July 15, 2013 (UTC)
 * It comes from Wikistad Nations in-universe Pierlot McCrooke 16:07, July 19, 2013 (UTC)

Sylvanian State Elections
The State elections are divided up into two elections, one for the Council of Representatives and one for the Senate. The election of the Council of Representatives concerns all Lovians and Sylvanian Residents. While the election of the Senate largely concerns only Sylvanian Residents.

There is help at hand so try to take part even if you're not sure, you will be pointed in the right direction and will be given assistance to help things run smoothly.

~ Election of the Council of Representatives ~

What's up for grabs?
 * All 40 of the Council of Representatives seats are up for election

When and how do I stand for election?
 * Today is the 15th of July, the first day on which you can sign up a candidate list for election, act now because on the 21st the candidacy period will end
 * Go here and sign up a candidate list in the correct style however to stand for election you MUST have been a resident of Sylvania for at least two months prior to today
 * You can stand as a candidate in as many as five Districts, so choose those that matter most to you

When and how do I vote?
 * Sylvaniarelatedareas.pngg will begin in a weeks time on the 22nd of July and will end on the 28th of July
 * You will be able to vote in each and every district, as each are like their own mini-elections
 * As long as you are at least a citizen you can vote however the amount of votes you have depend on your official residence
 * If you have an official house within a related area and are a Sylvanian Resident then you are eligible to vote with a major vote, a minor vote as well as a support vote within all districts of that related area
 * If you have an official house within Sylvania and are a Sylvanian Resident then you are eligible to vote with a minor vote as well as a support vote in all districts
 * If you are a Lovian citizen then you are eligible to vote with a support vote in all districts
 * Go here to vote but REMEMBER you can only vote for any candidate once, if you are confused however simply cast your votes and we will be at hand to help smooth out any problems

What will the council do once it's elected?
 * It will propose legislation to the Sylvanian Constitution and the Sylvanian State Law
 * It will vote on legislation in the Sylvanian Constitution and the Sylvanian State Law
 * It will have an influence over how Sylvania is governed
 * It will advise the Governor on actions to take in Sylvania

~ Election of the Senate ~

What's up for grabs?
 * All 10 of the Senate seats are up for election

When and how do I stand for election?
 * Today is the 15th of July, the first day on which you can sign up a candidacy for election, act now because on the 21st the candidacy period will end
 * Go here and sign up a candidacy in the correct style however to stand for election you MUST have been a resident of Sylvania for at least twelve months prior to today
 * You can stand as a candidate in as many as five Districts, so choose those that matter most to you

When and how do I vote?
 * Voting will begin in a weeks time on the 22nd of July and will end on the 28th of July
 * You will be able to vote in each and every district, as each are like their own mini-elections
 * As long as you have Sylvanian Residency you can vote however the amount of votes you have depend on your official residence
 * If you have an official house within a related area and are a Sylvanian Resident then you are eligible to vote with a major vote, a minor vote as well as a support vote within all districts of that related area
 * If you have an official house within Sylvania and are a Sylvanian Resident then you are eligible to vote with a minor vote as well as a support vote in all districts
 * Go here to vote but REMEMBER you can only vote for any candidate once, if you are confused however simply cast your votes and we will be at hand to help smooth out any problems

What will the council do once it's elected?
 * It will vote on legislation in the Sylvanian Constitution and the Sylvanian State Law
 * It will have an influence over how Sylvania is governed
 * It will advise the Governor on actions to take in Sylvania

~ Extra Info ~
 * For more help concerning this issue contact Lukas Hoffmann, the Governor of Sylvania

Thank you for your time. Hoffmann Kunarian TALK 16:51, July 15, 2013 (UTC)

Lovian Times Polling 19-20 July
Elections
 * 19-20 July 2013 - If a Federal Election happened tomorrow who would you give a major vote to?
 * 3 - Conservative Christian Party of Lovia
 * 0 - Social Christian Party
 * 1 - Social Liberal Party
 * 2 - Green Party
 * 2 - Conservative Nationalist Party
 * 3 - Labour Party
 * 2 - Other


 * 19-20 July 2013 - If a Federal Election happened tomorrow who would you give a minor vote to?
 * 2 - Conservative Christian Party of Lovia
 * 1 - Social Christian Party
 * 1 - Social Liberal Party
 * 3 - Green Party
 * 2 - Conservative Nationalist Party
 * 2 - Labour Party
 * 2 - Other


 * 19-20 July 2013 - If a Federal Election happened tomorrow who would you give a support vote to?
 * 1 - Conservative Christian Party of Lovia
 * 1 - Social Christian Party
 * 2 - Social Liberal Party
 * 3 - Green Party
 * 3 - Conservative Nationalist Party
 * 2 - Labour Party
 * 1 - Other

Approval
 * 19-20 July 2013 - Do you approve or disapprove of the Government's record to date?
 * 5 - Approve
 * 5 - Disapprove
 * 1 - Don't Know

Flavour Polling
 * 19-20 July 2013 - What result would you most prefer in the Sylvania State Elections?
 * 2 - A majority government of two parties at most
 * 0 - A minority government of two parties at most
 * 7 - A coalition government of two or more parties
 * 3 - A free government with no majority, minority or coalition
 * 0 - Don't Know

Comments
Last polls before State Election voting begins! Hoffmann Kunarian TALK 08:16, July 19, 2013 (UTC)
 * Flavour polling! Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 08:30, July 19, 2013 (UTC)
 * In France it is not allowed to poll so close to the election. Maybe we should do the same. :P Cadaro (www.tonefactory.lo) 09:20, July 19, 2013 (UTC)
 * Tsss, we're Lovia, not France :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 09:22, July 19, 2013 (UTC)
 * A la douce France, the mighty nation of military losers, pretty women, stinking/hostile men and awful beer. Cadaro (www.tonefactory.lo) 12:55, July 19, 2013 (UTC)
 * Hahaha, at least they've got the Eiffel tower :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 14:59, July 19, 2013 (UTC)
 * I voted for a coalition for many parties in sylvania :D Marcus/Michael Villanova 15:44, July 19, 2013 (UTC)
 * @OWTB Yeah, and pretty, pretty women and a great sense of fashion. I absolutely love Les Intouchables for its superb picture of Parisian fashion :P Cadaro (www.tonefactory.lo) 16:41, July 19, 2013 (UTC)
 * Not really into France. Not my field of interest :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 18:18, July 19, 2013 (UTC)
 * I dislike France for a couple of reasons, but you gotta admit, they have style. Also, between the piles of shitty French music, you can sometimes find a real gem (Daft Punk, Justice, Nada Surf, you know the score). Cadaro (www.tonefactory.lo) 20:22, July 19, 2013 (UTC)

I actually like France! Well, I've only been to Paris, but I really loved the food Frijoles333 / Marcel Cebara (talk) 15:32, July 20, 2013 (UTC)


 * Yes, sin't it. I lived there on two occasion nd it was such a nice country.  HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 15:57, July 20, 2013 (UTC)
 * I have a very dislike for the French language and that blocks me from loving/liking a country which suppresses all regional dialects, as the constitution says: "The language of the Republic is French." --O u WTBsjrief-mich 16:56, July 20, 2013 (UTC)
 * That is kinda sad. There is some recognition of Breton but that's about it. Occitan and others are left suppressed.  HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 17:09, July 20, 2013 (UTC)

I didnt't know that but... j'aime la langue francaise :) Frijoles333 / Marcel Cebara (talk) 17:09, July 20, 2013 (UTC)

To add something, I think it'd be interesting to have an independent Brittany, Basque Country, and Catalonia. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 12:57, July 21, 2013 (UTC)

It would be interesting, but it's not going to happen. :P --Semyon 14:13, August 27, 2013 (UTC)

I'd put my money on either Greenland or Scotland :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 10:35, August 28, 2013 (UTC)

Clymene Today polling July 19th-July 21st
If the Clymene state election was held today who would you vote for? J. Abrahams (Ind.) M. Villanova (LP) F. Szohad (SDU) G. Underhill (GP) I don't know If the Seven state election was held today who would you vote for? S. Breyev (Ind.) E. Taiyo (CDP) D. Leskromento (SCP) I don't know Marcus/Michael Villanova 14:41, July 19, 2013 (UTC)


 * SUSPENSION OF POLLING - At least for awhile. With only two candidates in one race and the other having a clear leader we will pick up polling in September. Marcus/Michael Villanova 23:50, July 21, 2013 (UTC)

Kings Today polling July 19th-July 21st
If the Kings State Elections was held today who would you vote for? W. Krosby (Social Liberal Party) J. Lewis (Conservative Christian Party of Lovia) A. Mayer (Social Christian Party) I don't know

So long, and thanks for all the kind and less kind discussions!
I have had a couple of great weeks at this website. You may or may not remember me as SKWikistad, a user that was active a couple of years ago. I have now resurfaced for a few weeks, and played around a little. I hope you'll remember me for adding the settlements, adding Warped Records and a thriving Lovian music scene, and working on Clymene/Bredish a lot. I particularly liked to play around a little in Adobe Illustrator and create some maps, some album covers and general paraphernalia related to Warped and a reflection of my own tastes IRL.

However, I am afraid that I have to say goodbye to y'all. The novelty has worn off, and I have -quite frankly- become a little bit bored by Lovia by now. Feel free to remove me from the election lists, and expand on my legacy. I'd like to ask you not to rollback anything major I have done. I would appreciate it if my additions and improvements on the wiki were to be (semi-)permanent.

Lovia is great. This community is really great. It is small enough to actually have meaningful conversations and relations with the users contributing to our little project. It is meaningful because we expand on our own knowledge, explore the limits (and transgress them at the same time) of our own fantasy, without becoming pathetic. I love the way my English has improved because of Lovia, Wikistad (and my own little project the Harvian Islands). In the meantime, I learned a lot about geography, linguistics and the make-up of a society. I am considering studying politics and an active member of a political party IRL, and one of the reasons I became so interested in politics is -you guessed it- these experiments in geofiction.

Lovia is the epitome of a collaborative fantasy. There are little to no other websited on the net that I know of that are even slightly comparable -only offshoots that were directly inspired by Lovia and its Dutch predecessor, Wikistad. I consider myself a member of the second generation of users (those that became active in 2009) and I have contributed to a fair amount of wiki's in the time span between that year and now: Wikistad (baby steps), Lovia (as SKW), then Llamada (a 5-nation wiki run by a couple of people, including me, that was hosted as real stand-alone website) and now again Lovia (as Cadaro).

Anyway, the hours spent on Lovia were not meaningless, and I absolutely love it that some of you are not afraid to reveal your identity (judging from my facebook). As you may or may not have noticed, I reflected a lot of my personal tastes in music, politics, literature and art in the articles that I created. I am an avid music lover, that is, obsessed with music (say hi http://www.last.fm/user/TunicSongForKar). Warped Records and the accompanying artists are a mirror of my own musical taste (well, except for the silly black metal label I expanded on over the course of the last couple of days). About 90% of the song titles and albums (check out Core for example) have some meaning behind them, and are clues to my own interests. As a matter-of-fact, all of my articles are filled with references and little easter eggs: have fun digging around.

Hit me up on reddit.com if you really, really need to speak to me (/u/TunicSongForKaren - almost the same as my last.fm, except for the last two letters) and some of you have my facebook for pressing matters.

Shout outs to (future president of the USA) Michael, (King) Jeroen, (the next Chomsky) Arjan and all the other people whose names I will probably never learn.

Signing off for now. Cadaro (www.tonefactory.lo) 23:52, July 19, 2013 (UTC)
 * It's been an honour editing with you. I'm really going to miss your additions to discussions and working on projects together. Have fun with whatever you do! Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 08:18, July 20, 2013 (UTC)

Really gonna miss a valued user that was always inclusive, hopefully thats IRL too because you'll have a future in politics with great dedication, great speeches and great ideas which are hard to find. these moments always remind me (Kinda cheesy sorry) of that moment in the Lord of The Rings Return of the King when the hobbits and magical creatures depart to the new magical realm. Sorta like, sorry to see you go but its for the better. The music articles, maps, and culture were amazing. Especially the music, which was cool because like the diversity in Lovia the experimenting and passion was also shown in the titles and artists. I was hoping to see you and me take over the Clymene political sphere you with the ideas me with the...well me with the...we will get back to that. Anyway sorry to see you go, just as you think ill achieve something politically in America, you will achieve something large scale in the Netherlands. Best of luck, Marcus/Michael Villanova 01:46, July 20, 2013 (UTC)

Your departure is as unexpected as your re-arrival, so maybe you will return in another two years :P Anyway, for now, you will be missed, and not only for your map making. Dober lyck an we bude vit :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 07:58, July 20, 2013 (UTC)

Fair enough. :) --Semyon 14:49, July 20, 2013 (UTC)

Well, I know we haven't been active at the same time for long, Cadaro, but I can still say that you've been a very valuable member of the wikia, and I'm going to miss your contributions. Thanks especially for creating Warped Records, and giving Lovia a music scene. You've actually given me a few ideas! Good luck in the future! Frijoles333 / Marcel Cebara (talk) 15:28, July 20, 2013 (UTC)


 * It was nice editing with you! :) — <font color=#2E6FFD>Christopher Costello (<font color=#2E6FFD>Pikapi • <font color=#2E6FFD>Chat  • <font color=#2E6FFD>What's up ) 16:03, July 20, 2013 (UTC)

... —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 12:50, July 21, 2013 (UTC)

So long brother! You will be missed. Interesting personalities and creative souls always are. Lovia was a little more interesting with you in it, and will be a little less interesting now without you. I completely understand you leave however, You're a cool dude George, have a kickass life. You left quite a legacy here. Well done! To be honest I am slightly bored myself. Now I could always of course make things more interesting again but I don't really feel like it. Such things take effort, and concentration. Concentration I lack, effort I put in other places. And yet we all keep coming back, every now and then. To check things out, to see how things are going. In a way we're all drifters, hobos. Hopping a train one day, missing one another day. One day you'll find yourself interested in what has become of our little creations. Secretly hoping others have taken them and made them their own, incorporated our darlings into their own stories. See you in a few months, years, weeks. Make some kickas music, have fun, say hi to Mr. Cohen for me. Maybe one day we'll all share a beer. So long compadre! The glorious First Consul of Rome (talk) 20:17, July 21, 2013 (UTC)
 * Hahha, the beer thing can be arranged after I get my OV back :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 08:07, July 22, 2013 (UTC)

New King
Did you guys see, there's a new king in Belgium. That got me thinking, we should have our king be more visible in events, both formal and ceremonial. HORTON11 : •  15:15, July 22, 2013 (UTC)
 * Neutral :P I don't think Dimitri wants to invest time in us :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 16:49, July 22, 2013 (UTC)
 * I don't mean bring him back, I just meant that for big events and such, jsut place a picture of his majesty (or the queen) and say hegave a speech, or cut the ribbon etc. Otherwise we'll have an IC recluse for a king that's sure to be unpopular. HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 17:04, July 22, 2013 (UTC)
 * Okay, that's quite easy to do :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 17:16, July 22, 2013 (UTC)
 * Too bad we don't have too many/visible pictures of the King. I guess we'll just have to do something like this and photoshop the king's head into international meetings etc. HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 17:22, July 22, 2013 (UTC)
 * And we may even see some royal activity in Brunant in the coming weeks. The king's cancer may lead him to step down (at least temporarily). HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 17:49, July 22, 2013 (UTC)
 * That's an option indeed :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 17:51, July 22, 2013 (UTC)

Yes, despite the fact Dimitri (the user) isn't active we should still have an active King (cutting ribbons etc) Frijoles333 / Marcel Cebara (talk) 17:52, July 22, 2013 (UTC)


 * Oh you poor magnificant blind sweet fools, all the time you look for a king who is not there and never will be again, when there's a solution right here, right now: me. King Ygo the First. Or Bernd, for all I know. Or perhaps, I dunno, one of Dimitri's cousins? Any of these will do, but Dimitri is gone and he isn't going to return. And we cannot use his characters without his consent. The easiest, and perhaps only solution, is for Dimitri to retire. Face it, he's gone for good. I'm not. I'd be a better king then Philip le Dork as I'm actually capable of speaking the language most of my citizens speak, whereas this new Belgian dude only properly speaks French and not Dutch, the first language of 60% of Belgians. I say it's a win-win situation. We can't possibly screw up more then the Belgians. Hell, I'd be enthusiastic like Willem-Alexander on speed with the grace of Princess Diana and the charisma of Maxima. Imma nail this shit. So go ahead and support me already, it's about damn time. Also, I'd install a Heretow in Oceana right away (our good ol' Oos) and make things real interesting. Would be a tremendous boost for the site's activity, too. The glorious First Consul of Rome (talk) 20:16, July 22, 2013 (UTC)
 * Maybe we could have a dual monarchy that shares power? :P —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 20:18, July 22, 2013 (UTC)
 * Or better yet, why not continue with tradition and say Dimitri abdicated, making his cousin or brother king, and we allow Ygo to control him. That way, we aren't alienating any IC supporters of the traditional royal family and we let our friend represent an active king.  HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 20:28, July 22, 2013 (UTC)
 * Also, Ygo is too controversial to become king, and Bernd couldn't as he is the future Queen of Brunant's husband (in fact acting consort). HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 20:31, July 22, 2013 (UTC)

Yeah I like that, it sounds like a good idea Frijoles333 / Marcel Cebara (talk) 20:37, July 22, 2013 (UTC)

It looks like Dimitri is gone forever, so we need a more active king or queen. Either that or a republic Frijoles333 / Marcel Cebara (talk) 20:22, July 22, 2013 (UTC)

well TMV, I just love your long speeches :) Frijoles333 / Marcel Cebara (talk) 20:25, July 22, 2013 (UTC)

If we can have TMV as King, even if via proxy, with his brilliant speeches and his patriotic love for Lovia that I fear even I cannot match, then I am all for it. Hoffmann Kunarian TALK 20:41, July 22, 2013 (UTC)


 * I would be more then happy to take over the throne and become the new King of Lovia. I would do so preferably as one of Dimitri's cousins, as he himself seems rather dull to me. I would also be open to having Bernd and Ygo's unknown younger brother become King instead. But, if you guys insist Dimitri's younger brother, too, would suffice. I'd need to find a proper consort and make the fella a little more colourful within the bounderies of reason and good taste. Then we have a new King, new activity and some interesting new speeches, situations and events. If I were to ascend to the throne in the form of Dimitri's brother, I promise to not hold any other public offices and remain a-political. But I also insist in this case to make the Barontecy of Ygo in the Highlands official, and to officialize Oos' position as Heretow (Duke) of Oceana. I would take my new task very serious and believe my demands to be perfectly reasonable. All this most certainly would be a cultural enrichment for Lovia. The glorious First Consul of Rome (talk) 20:46, July 22, 2013 (UTC)
 * Those titles would need to be honorary however I think we've found the perfect solution. Although I still hope for your voting support in these elections... ;L Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 21:27, July 22, 2013 (UTC)

By the way, what would Dimitris title be when he abdicates Frijoles333 / Marcel Cebara (talk) 20:51, July 22, 2013 (UTC)


 * He would henceforth be known as the Honourable Prince Dimitri of Lovia, and retire gracefully and with the utmost respect to a quiet residence out in the country. There he would retreat in peace and silence in a clean and well-kept environment, a personal library and staff, away from the public eye. He would live there with his wife and any children they might have. The glorious First Consul of Rome (talk) 20:53, July 22, 2013 (UTC)
 * That seems good. Perhaps we can go with Prince Sebastian as king. He has a lovely wife, a child and would make a good king.  HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 20:56, July 22, 2013 (UTC)

Yeah he seems like a nice enough guy Frijoles333 / Marcel Cebara (talk) 20:57, July 22, 2013 (UTC) We could have a vote on who controls the character. It wouldn't be an official vote of Lovia; it would be a vote of our opinions on each other as users, but we could run it similarly to a real election with major, minor, and support votes. --Quarantine Zone (talk) 22:36, July 22, 2013 (UTC)
 * The Lovian royalty doesn't hold any inherent political power, and would be much more suitable as NPCs. — <font color=#2E6FFD>Christopher Costello (<font color=#2E6FFD>Pikapi • <font color=#2E6FFD>Chat  • <font color=#2E6FFD>What's up ) 01:31, July 23, 2013 (UTC)

Before we go on with this: shouldn't we involve - or at least inform - Dimitri on this? :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 07:08, July 23, 2013 (UTC)
 * Unless you want to give him an aneurysm, no. :P --Semyon 07:49, July 23, 2013 (UTC)
 * Mmm.. As far as I know, he doesn't fit the risk factors: . He's not obese, doesn't drink or smoke, and isn't that old :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 08:05, July 23, 2013 (UTC)

If he doesn't fit the risk factors for an aneurysm, he could just be in a car or plane crash Frijoles333 / Marcel Cebara (talk) 08:42, July 23, 2013 (UTC)
 * Then he'd probably be dead as well, which is not the case :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 11:42, July 23, 2013 (UTC)
 * Dimitri's character does not have to die. Death is awfully irreversible. The only one who can kill off the character is Dimitri himself, who created it and gave it his own name. We will just peacefully retire the King. Maybe we could make his wife be pregnant and say he wishes to focus on his family life outside the public eye? Politicians do it all the time. Him pulling a Wouter Bosje, would that be an idea Oos?  That way when he wishes to return and be king again he could do so without any trouble. It's a very small chance I know but I do want to keep the door open for his return. The glorious First Consul of Rome (talk) 11:44, July 23, 2013 (UTC)
 * That does seem fair enough. HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 12:57, July 23, 2013 (UTC)
 * He'd be the first king to retire because he gets a child. Remember: that child is the heir to the throne :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 13:00, July 23, 2013 (UTC)
 * Or just say, the king doesn't want to be in the public eye and wishes to retire t a private life with his wife. This would expalain the several months of not making any appearances.  HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 13:47, July 23, 2013 (UTC)

Yes that would be better than him dying! Especially as there's always a small chance that Dimitri (the user) will return Frijoles333 / Marcel Cebara (talk) 14:00, July 23, 2013 (UTC)
 * Haha, seems like everyone misunderstood the aneurysm thing. :P The point was hearing Donia had become king might make him so angry a blood vessel might pop. :P Though he could die ic, have a son (Dimitri II) posthumously, and then Donia could act as regent for him. --Semyon 15:14, July 23, 2013 (UTC)
 * Had another idea: Dimitri could go into a coma or something and Donia would roleplay as regent. Then if he complained, he just comes out of the coma and becomes acting monarch again. It's the perfect solution. --Semyon 15:15, July 23, 2013 (UTC)
 * That's too unrealistic. Let's just go with him wanting a private life. HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 15:45, July 23, 2013 (UTC)
 * Sounds perfectly reasonable to me, @Semyon. Either that or another illness that prevents him from doing his royal duties, or a situation in his personal life that makes things hard on him. Something not quite as permanent or irreversible as death, though still serious enough to require either a regent in Dimitri's name or a new King. What we could also do, after we had I believe three or four kings in a row, is to go for a queen. We only had one in Lovian history: Lucy. Say Dimitri knocked up his wife before the accident that knocked him into a coma... surely neither he nor his unborn child can rule the nation. But his wife, the Queen Consort, surely can. When Dutch King William III died in 1890 his daughter was only ten so for the next eight years, his wife acted as regent. We could go for a similar situation here. Don't get me wrong however, for Donia to take Dimi's place would be a perfectly reasonable solution too. Either way would be fine. And there's Dimitri's younger full brother too. I'm fine with whichever you guys decide is best, and it sure will make things a lot more interesting. One thing I will not do is of course control Dimitri's character the King so either way, he has to resign. But we can find a realistic and reversible way to get him out of the way, for the time being. The glorious First Consul of Rome (talk) 15:51, July 23, 2013 (UTC)

Our new King... some candidates and how I plan to do things
The way I see it, Prince Sebastian is like the Prince William of Lovia... responsible, happily married, serious and dependable. Our Prince Alexander would be the Prince Harry... irresponsible, independable, a wild and sorta out of control party animal unwilling to settle into a mundane and regular life with everyday responsibilities like his brother and cousin. Dimitri is, well, Dimitri. A scholar, his nose always buried in books. He belongs in a library, a study room, a university. He should teach, learn and read, write and discover. He's a scholar born and bred, not a ruler of any kind.

Now what I intend to happen is the following... Dimitri steps down, for reasons we will decide on together. He either ends up in a hospital bed (a solution I would find rather sad and miserable), or he could do what his uncle King Lucas did: retreat out of the public eye and live life to the fullest on his own terms. He is young and healthy enough to travel and see the world with his equally young and healthy wife, and live a vibrant and active life. However he is more of the studious type, the eternal student much like Arthur III of Lovia. Therefore he will most likely write books, study and write some more. He's the type of guy that I could very well see becoming a professor, even at his young age. To focus on these duties would be his goal. And also his reason to step down. We could say Dimitri, through careful deliberation and deep thought, has decided he has moral issues with the idea of a monarchy. He chooses to be known for his merits as a scholar and a researcher, and be recognized for his own qualities rather then those of his ancestors. Dimitri wants to be his own man. It's an admirable goal, and one that is very likely to be applauded by many Lovians, whether they be Republicans or supporters of the monarchy. Last but not least, Dimitri's personal issues with the task he's been given might hurt the rest of the family and the position of the monarchy in Lovia. Loyal to his family above all, our King thinks it's best to step down. His wife turns out to be with child, and it's the final straw. Our young and once so ambitious monarch takes a step back. He resigns the throne.

Now we have to find a successor for Dimitri, with the reason for his resignation becoming apparant. Dimitri gives a grand final speech before the senate, government and congress, and on his palace balcony in Noble City. There he announces for all of Lovia and the world to hear, that he resigns the throne. His heir apparant is Prince Alexander, his younger full brother. However young Alexander will soon proof to be unfit for the task.... he is already involved in a scandal in Brunant as we speak. He then has a falling out with his family who are angry at him for besmirching Lovia's good name and the good reputation of his family. This causes a family feud and young Alexander moves to Brunant. Here he lives a playboy lifestyle, famous girlfriends, fast cars, squandering his part of his father's inheritance. I like the idea.

Who then is to take the throne of Lovia, with Dimitri's departure and Alexander's fall from grace and subsequent self-chosen exile to Brunant? Dimitri has five more cousins I believe. These are Prince Sebastian, Sebastian's sister and Arthur III's illegitimate sons. Arthur's sons are out of the question, they are not in the Line of Succession. Sebastian's sister does not wish to become queen either, and for this she has her own personal reasons. Her reasons are not important, she simply chooses not to ascend to the throne in all the recent turmoil, believing herself to be incapable of dealing with the stress and high pressure of saving the families reputation, among other things. That leaves us with Sebastian, her brother. Dimitri's cousin. A much more stable choice who also has the proper age. Brunant wins another interesting celebrity and Lovia a decent and active King. Prince Sebastian is a happily married man, father of a healthy daughter and with another child on the way due in early 2014. The Lovian monarchy is now saved, the family is expanding and a different branch takes over. Nobody dies, nobody lands into a coma. And if Dimitri chooses to ever return, he can do so by kindly asking his cousin (to be controlled by yours truly). Who will gladly grant the man who founded Lovia his wishes. Until then at least we have an active monarchy again. A monarchy thats more active then ever before. even.

Now what do my fellow countrymen think of this plan? The glorious First Consul of Rome (talk) 17:38, July 23, 2013 (UTC)

Sounds like a plan TMV, but make sure you are a responsible and sensible monarch :P Frijoles333 / Marcel Cebara (talk) 18:06, July 23, 2013 (UTC)

And how about an OOC referendum to decide Frijoles333 / Marcel Cebara (talk) 18:08, July 23, 2013 (UTC)


 * My good friends, this is just a scenario. I am not talking about voting, referenda and (highly questionable) polls, none of that. Right now I just want individual opinions of my fellow Lovians about the scenario mentioned above. Is it or is it not a reasonable scenario, would you agree or disagree with it. Do you have anything to add or change, perhaps? Or do you simply agree. I'm all yours, Lovians. Living with and for you, working with and for you. I will be responsible and I will be sensible. But I am no Dimitri, I can tell you that right away. My style is more bombastic, more grand. Bigger, better, faster, stronger. Not an invisible king but one very visible. Every official event, I will be there. Weddings and funerals of prominent Lovians and other royals? There will be a King's Speech, minus the stutter. No Di-di-dimitri, but a monarch nobody can go around, nobody can ignore. Yet at the same time, I will hold no political offices and exercize no power over no state affairs whatsoever. My duties will be strictly symbolical in nature, my function a cultural one. Meanwhile, in spite of my busy schedule, expect countless journeys to different nations, closer bonds with the Royal Family of Brunant and other Wikinations and business related meetings. Expect palaces and castles to be well-kept, national heritage to be given the utmost protection. Expect the official recognition of dialects and local languages, and preservation of regional cultures. Expect speeches and public appearances, a thriving and growing Royal family and a major economic and tourist boost. Promotion of travel and Lovia as a holiday destination. All this and more you can expect. Things Dimitri has never given you, things you went without for months if not years. Now you can have them. All it takes is a yes, and I am yours. The glorious First Consul of Rome (talk) 18:23, July 23, 2013 (UTC)
 * Well about Sebastian's sister, she comes after her brother, so Sebastian is the next best choice after Alex. Your idea sounds great, that is probably the best plan.  HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 18:42, July 23, 2013 (UTC)

Yes I support this plan Frijoles333 / Marcel Cebara (talk) 18:54, July 23, 2013 (UTC)

I think it'd be a better idea to transition Lovia to a republic than to have an arbitrary "king". 77topaz (talk) 21:53, July 23, 2013 (UTC)


 * Lovia always has been a republic and functioned perfectly well in that capacity. To be a monarchy in a time of presidents and republics seems like a cultural enrichment, a sense of uniqueness unrivaled in the world, setting us apart from boring regular nation states. Also know how much an ex president costs in America every year... and how many ex-presidents there are. Trust me, in the long run a King's cheaper. See it as a piece of nostalgia, too. Reliving the good ol' days of 2007 and 2008 and beyond when the site was started. Dimitri is gone and I am no Dimitri. But the Royal Family lives on in his spirit and memory. And with it a vital part of Lovian culture since it's very beginning. The glorious First Consul of Rome (talk) 22:00, July 23, 2013 (UTC)

Absolutely not about Alexander, that idea gives me a knee-jerk "no way" reaction. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 22:49, July 23, 2013 (UTC)


 * Why not? The guy lost his father when he was really young and saw his elder brother take care of the nation's affairs from a very early age. Ever since he was in his early teens he knew he would one day be the King, but never had a say in the matter. Given all these facts, and his age, it's only natural for young Alexander to snap. To act out, one way or another. Call it an act of youthful rebellion. Or perhaps for whatever demons he has haunting him, he genuinely is unfit to rule? It sets him aside more from his cousin Sebastian, who in my opinion seems like a better and more stable choice (older, better-adjusted and squeeky clean). There needs to be a reason for Dimitri's heir not to take the throne, other then the dull and unimaginative "he does not want to". Besides, all families have black sheep. People who somehow do not fit in with the rest, who go their own way. Prince Alexander could be that guy for the Lovian Royal Family. Of course the extent to which he acts out can be debated, and the ways in which he does this. But you have to admit our royal family is more then a little bit boring and it certainly wouldn't do us any harm to spice things up a bit. With me as a King, TimeMaster, you will see some changes. This is one of them. And don't worry, Dimitri, Elizabeth, Lucy-Anne and Sylvia remain squeeky clean. Sebastian? Top-notch dude. But Prince Alexander, as I wrote before, would be somewhat of the Prince Harry of the family. Just a bit more controversial, wild and morally loose then the others. Because, again, it happens in the best of families. We have enough boring royals as it is, please allow me to make things a bit more... interesting. Feel free to discuss however, and point out what you think of the good and less good points in my theory and why. You are more then welcome to give your opinion beyond: "It made my knee act funny".  The glorious First Consul of Rome (talk) 06:59, July 24, 2013 (UTC)
 * To be honest, every single monarchy on this earth has a prince who is doing the "loose life" :P It would only be natural for Lovia to have on as well. That's what we got Prince Alexander for.
 * I agree with Donia's plan as laid out here, as long as there is one more thing: Heretow :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 09:23, July 24, 2013 (UTC)

Looking over the situation, I don't think that there'd be a massive problem in cutting out the middle man and jumping to Alexander. If some people want a republic then you can start a referendum for it, we have a law for that. However for now, we must progress and the Monarchy is important to Lovia's culture and heritage and having a unheard, unseen and unspoken King is not good for the nation. As long as TMV makes Sebastian into a proud to be Lovian, strong and loving King then I can't see why anyone would oppose us moving forwards with the Monarchy. Any discussion about a possible Republic should be separate from this, as this is about making the Monarchy better. Hoffmann Kunarian TALK 10:24, July 24, 2013 (UTC)


 * Yep, that's what I thought. Sebastian allows us to start a new Royal family while maintaining ties to the old.  HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 13:17, July 24, 2013 (UTC)

I think the Heretow thing should be decided in an Oceana-wide referendum. I can't approve of the current plan of the king enforcing it. :P If there's a referendum, I'll vote pro. --Semyon 11:39, July 24, 2013 (UTC)

I have an idea. I need an explanation of what will happen to the current Dimitri. Then, after Dimitri abdicates (again) for x reason, Alexander decides he doesn't want to be King either for y reason, and it goes to Sebastian, and no frivolous controversies. :P —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 15:42, July 24, 2013 (UTC)


 * Have you even read my scenario? It's really long, scroll up. Says what Dimi would do, too. The glorious First Consul of Rome (talk) 15:49, July 24, 2013 (UTC)
 * Well we just say the king wants to retire because he wants a private life, Prince Alex renounces his rights as he does not want the responsibilities of King, and that leaves Sebastian. HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 15:53, July 24, 2013 (UTC)
 * We sort of already agreed on my scenario being ideal, TimeMaster. Horton, Oos and Kunarian had no objections to the idea. The scenario I described already explains Dimitri's reasons for resigning, and what he will do after. It also covers why Alexander is unfit and unwilling to rule. There will be some frivolous controversies though, as you seem to be the only person around here who is against me adding some colour and some liveliness to the rather dull royal family of ours. The glorious First Consul of Rome (talk) 16:10, July 24, 2013 (UTC)

The reasons I saw were "maybe he ends up in the hospital or maybe he just says 'screw it' and resigns". Neither are good reasons. I would prefer to call the whole thing off at this point. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 17:40, July 24, 2013 (UTC)
 * I would prefer to poll this :P --`O u WTBsjrief-mich 17:58, July 24, 2013 (UTC)
 * Again, TimeMaster, you have no been reading:
 * "he could do what his uncle King Lucas did: retreat out of the public eye and live life to the fullest on his own terms. He is young and healthy enough to travel and see the world with his equally young and healthy wife, and live a vibrant and active life. However he is more of the studious type, the eternal student much like Arthur III of Lovia. Therefore he will most likely write books, study and write some more. He's the type of guy that I could very well see becoming a professor, even at his young age. To focus on these duties would be his goal. And also his reason to step down. We could say Dimitri, through careful deliberation and deep thought, has decided he has moral issues with the idea of a monarchy. He chooses to be known for his merits as a scholar and a researcher, and be recognized for his own qualities rather then those of his ancestors. Dimitri wants to be his own man. It's an admirable goal, and one that is very likely to be applauded by many Lovians, whether they be Republicans or supporters of the monarchy. Last but not least, Dimitri's personal issues with the task he's been given might hurt the rest of the family and the position of the monarchy in Lovia. Loyal to his family above all, our King thinks it's best to step down. His wife turns out to be with child, and it's the final straw. Our young and once so ambitious monarch takes a step back. He resigns the throne."
 * I wrote quite a lengthy essay on a scenario under which Dimitri could step back, what he would be doing and what would be his reasons. Said scenario was met with near universal priase; only you object. And I genuinely doubt you even bothered to read the whole text anyway. Which I think is a shame, really. And to "call the whole thing off", c'mon... no way José, no can't do. The glorious First Consul of Rome (talk) 18:05, July 24, 2013 (UTC)
 * All I intend is to add some colour to the Royal Family. To make a story rather dull and uninteresting, interesting, and to spice things up a bit. Nobody but you objects to this, and quite frankly I find it rather sad you do. The glorious First Consul of Rome (talk) 18:07, July 24, 2013 (UTC)
 * I do like your idea. Let's go with it. HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 18:51, July 24, 2013 (UTC)
 * I skimmed it, but I'd prefer you take over Dimitri than have that plus the scandal with Alexander. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 21:42, July 24, 2013 (UTC)
 * Dimitri is not mine, TimeMaster. He is Dimitri's. I am not going to take over his own personal character with the chance of him not liking the things I make him do and later overruling or undoing them. Also you may have noticed he basically left us, and his character has been very unactive for more then a year. To suddenly have him be all active again as if nothing ever happened would seem a bit odd. As for Prince Sebastian and Alexander, they are not user characters, they represent no one. Therefore they are more free for me to use, and I would be more comfortable with having a "new man". To start over anew, a fresh start with a fresh King. Alexander is too young, and as of now too irresponsible. But Sebastian is older then Dimtri, in his mid-twenties and in a stable marriage. He's also pretty unknown and his biography rather empty. So we have more to work from. If I were to take over Dimitri, it would not be Dimitri anymore. As Dimitri and me are too very different people. Sebastian? Who is to know, nobody knows what he is like. But he will be stable and he will be patriotic, and he will stay clear of controversy I promise you that. Now Alexander, he is the family's black sheep. For a royal family these days NOT to have a black sheep seems more unusual then for a royal family to have one. The glorious First Consul of Rome (talk) 21:52, July 24, 2013 (UTC)
 * Alexander actually is a user character: User:Wikalex. :P I don't see why Alexander should be a black sheep, he seemed so nice and timid. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 00:52, July 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * Well Wikalex hsn't been active since 2011 and was rarely active. And well looks can be deceiving, and it'll be fun to have a bit of scandal too, since our royal family is about the most boring tbh. Pus, we have it in Brunant too (our king was a womanizer and even had an illegitimate child). HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 06:28, July 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * @TimeMaster: He looked so nice and timid mostly because of the picture that was later added to the article of a young prince Amadeo of Belgium. That picture was added in 2011, two years ago. He has not been genuinely active since May 2008. That's five years ago. In 2011 he briefly returned to vote in the elections, and add a category to an article. So he has been unactive now for five years, and he never made a lot of edits. Whether young Alexander was, or seemed, "so nice and timid" five years ago at thirteen does not tell us anything about how nice and timid he'd be now, in 2013. Hell we could even write he was traumatized in the Civil War during the battle for Noble City, for all I care. A little shellshock ought to do the trick. Since then, we could say he is more of a "seize everyday like it's your last" type of fella.
 * @Horton: It is indeed fun to be a little bit scandalous, yes. And our royal family is excessively boring as of right now. There is not a single Royal Family in the world that has no illegitimate children or never had them. Not even one. Lovia has Dimitri and Alex' uncle, Arthur III. He has two sons out of wedlock because he was unable to marry the woman he loved. It's a bit of a tragic story but not really scandalous. One could say she was his "common law wife", his wife in everything but the paperwork. There was never really a king or prince, princess nor queen in the history of our state who ever was truly scandalous. Until today, that is, with Alexander. And I believe our nation to be richer for it. They are princes and princesses, not monks and nuns. The glorious First Consul of Rome (talk) 07:21, July 25, 2013 (UTC)

@TM: I just checked Wikialex's facebook: he's playing the guitar and boozing 'round Scotland with some of his friends. It quite fits the scandalous lifestyle :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 09:51, July 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * Scotland? Wow - controversial. :P --Semyon 11:24, July 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * Well, yeah, the boozing part was the main aim, but Scotland is quite wild too :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 11:38, July 25, 2013 (UTC)

Wikibreak
Hey everyone, just to inform you all I'll be on wikibreak from tomorrow to August 10. I'm going on holiday and won't be able to access the internet.

Unfortunately I'll probably end up missing some important stuff, with TMV trying to become King, and elections going on in Sylvania. But in August, when I return, I'll be ready to do my best for Sylvania (as long as I get elected), finish my travel guide, and aim to reach 1,000 edits before Christmas.

This probably doesn't really concern you, and you probably don't think I should post it in the Pub, I just don't want anyone to think I'm leaving for ever (Frijoles will be back)

See you guys, Frijoles333 / Marcel Cebara (talk) 19:50, July 24, 2013 (UTC)
 * Have fun! :) --Semyon 21:12, July 24, 2013 (UTC)
 * Thank you :) Frijoles333 / Marcel Cebara (talk) 21:13, July 24, 2013 (UTC)
 * Actually, I'm always very glad that people post this in the pub :) Have fun! --O u WTBsjrief-mich 11:39, July 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * Please take it easy Marcel :D Marcus/Michael Villanova 14:59, July 25, 2013 (UTC)

I will also be gone until Friday. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 12:39, July 28, 2013 (UTC)
 * Okay, hope to see you back then :) --O u WTBsjrief-mich 17:34, July 28, 2013 (UTC)
 * And again for another week, starting now. :P —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 15:56, August 4, 2013 (UTC)

The Return Of The King
Okay, so vibrant times it seems. With the return of the king (Tolkien anyone?) I have an announcement of myself to make: I too seek to return, albeit under another alias than my former one. Yuri Medvedev is a worn out figure, a commie crocodile of politics past. My ambitions will be smaller, my devotion not. I am looking forward to interacting with old friends, and to get acquainted with the others. See you soon! 10:48, July 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * I think those new King plans are too bombastic Pierlot McCrooke 11:09, July 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * @Pierlot: I think bombastic is your second least favorite word, right after the dreaded "Pierius". However there is very little "bombastic" about a change heads on the throne. From Dimitri to his cousin Sebastian, no big deal really. A few speeches, some nice public events. Who else is gonna cut those poor wittle ribbons?
 * @Yuri: Welcome back man! In a way your return is like a return of the king, too. Because you in your own way have dominated the political arena and the world of letters for a long, long time. To have you return to us means a lot to me, and I know Lovia will benefit from it. We might even write some more books. Actually working on one in real life. Good luck and have fun my Belgian brother from another mother!  The glorious First Consul of Rome (talk) 12:11, July 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * Yeah well, I wont be quite as 'dominating' this time. Currently I am fleshing out my character and I am making him like 72 - just to constrain myself. He is supposed to be a cute tree-hugger of sorts. Involved in politics, but not quite a leading man. @thewritingthing: success with that!  12:15, July 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * Actually, I think he returned because he saw that I overtook him in number of edits (Special:Editcount/Regaliorum - Special:Editcount/Ooswesthoesbes) :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 12:16, July 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * Ha, you are on to me. ;D 12:20, July 25, 2013 (UTC)

Lovian Times Polling 26-27 July
Elections
 * 26-27 July 2013 - If a Federal Election happened tomorrow who would you give a major vote to?
 * 3 - Conservative Christian Party of Lovia
 * 0 - Social Christian Party
 * 1 - Social Liberal Party
 * 3 - Green Party
 * 4 - Conservative Nationalist Party
 * 2 - Labour Party
 * 0 - Other


 * 26-27 July 2013 - If a Federal Election happened tomorrow who would you give a minor vote to?
 * 3 - Conservative Christian Party of Lovia
 * 0 - Social Christian Party
 * 1 - Social Liberal Party
 * 2 - Green Party
 * 3 - Conservative Nationalist Party
 * 3 - Labour Party
 * 1 - Other


 * 26-27 July 2013 - If a Federal Election happened tomorrow who would you give a support vote to?
 * 1 - Conservative Christian Party of Lovia
 * 1 - Social Christian Party
 * 3 - Social Liberal Party
 * 3 - Green Party
 * 2 - Conservative Nationalist Party
 * 2 - Labour Party
 * 1 - Other

Approval
 * 26-27 July 2013 - Do you approve or disapprove of the Government's record to date?
 * 7 - Approve
 * 5 - Disapprove
 * 2 - Don't Know

Comments
Time to poll! Hoffmann Kunarian TALK 13:35, July 26, 2013 (UTC)
 * Man I don't know if I can even release this poll. Needs more votes. Hoffmann LogoCNP2.png Kunarian TALK 21:35, July 27, 2013 (UTC)
 * I tried to vote but the poll wont take it. When I click on the submit button, the page reloads without registering my input.  06:17, July 28, 2013 (UTC)
 * Looks like Donia didn't vote with his sockpups :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 07:02, July 28, 2013 (UTC)
 * Heh :L I'd think that we'd need at least 10 votes in each poll for me to validate it, so maybe I'll just have to extend the period until it is valid. Hoffmann LogoCNP2.png Kunarian TALK 09:38, July 28, 2013 (UTC)
 * @Yuri: If you feel okay with telling me where you want to put your votes and you are being completely honest then I'll add yours in on the end. Hoffmann LogoCNP2.png Kunarian TALK 09:40, July 28, 2013 (UTC)

Anyway, why's SCP still in the polls? :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 09:42, July 28, 2013 (UTC)
 * Because they're still a major party despite their members having disappeared off the face of the earth. :P I like the way these polls reinforce how little it needs to continue. Hoffmann LogoCNP2.png Kunarian TALK 09:44, July 28, 2013 (UTC)
 * Hahaha, yeah, Lovia's never had a stable political climate :P However, CCPL is built to last! :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 09:46, July 28, 2013 (UTC)
 * Casting my votes, in public : my major vote would go to the Greens, minor vote to Labour and the support vote remains undetermined (I guess that would be 'other'?). Am I happy with government? I have been out of the country for a while, but sure. Give it a yes. 09:50, July 28, 2013 (UTC)
 * Why don't you show your tolerance and support CCPL? :'( --O u WTBsjrief-mich 09:58, July 28, 2013 (UTC)
 * I cast a vote for you guys but had to revert it when it became clear I could only use support votes. With a nice campaign you could win me over, but 'if elections happened right now'... 10:05, July 28, 2013 (UTC)
 * Ooo, the political tension. :L your votes'll be cast in the end then. :) Hoffmann LogoCNP2.png Kunarian TALK 10:08, July 28, 2013 (UTC)
 * :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 10:10, July 28, 2013 (UTC)

Party time
Well many Parties ran for seats in the Sylvanian State Council, CNP, CCPL, LP/UL, GP, and making a return PL. I made some obvious "heat" maps to show support from the lower chamber. Pretty self-explainitory but for the political junkies out there who want to track the support and were it comes from these are always important.
 * The CNP recieved widespread support. Mainly in the urban center of Noble City the CNP has been able to show themselves worthy of the people's support. The message of "do-it-yourself" classical liberalism has been sold and bought there under the leadership of Governor Hoffmann. His record also helped as the CNP was able to get enough votes to see candidates come from the middle of Sylvania, Discovery Isle, and the Noble City area.
 * The CCPL finished second in total votes in Noble City as both Christian and non-theist voters deicded that a new option was needed for the state. In the economically hit Train Village, CCPL maybe was able to sway voters over with a message of hope and to lead TV out of the slump. The Heretow of the Sylvania Highland District went for the CCPL because of the strong ties to both Oceana and Sylvania and Oos Wes Illava campaigning to get out the vote there.
 * Return of the Left? With a new political party merging during the elections with Justin and Marcus on one team again, the surge of support for the left maybe back. With retired politician Yuri Medvedev coming back out to support the new leftist force, the new party was able to show good returns in urban areas and single district areas. They were only not able to obtain a seat in the Stepehen Headlands, Discovery Isle or Sylvanian Highlands.
 * The Green Party campaign to obtain an executive position in 2012 failed with a third place finish, but the return of the Party shows that they are a much stronger force. The East Sylvanian district which was usually trending towards the GP, went for UL, but otherwise was able to get a good amount of seats in TV and NC. Additionally they were able to recieve a good amount of support in Clave Rock and the Stephen Highlands seat. Party leader Nicholas Sherladin should be proud
 * Return of the Postivity!?! An even bigger question than the return of the left was had when out of the dust came ol' time funnyman and statesman Christopher Costello. A same graph we did after the federal elections showed the same thing, that PL is popular in Noble City among other classical liberals who are looking for an alternative other than the CNP and want a more moderate choice. We will see if this turns into something bigger or sizzles out. Marcus/Michael Villanova 21:18, July 27, 2013 (UTC)

The analysis isn't bad but the "support maps" are poorly made. They should be made with a variable scale from 0% to 50% support as an axis of a gradient color scale. Lighter colors would mean less support and darker colors would mean more support, not just two colors for two levels of mid support of which the support levels within one color aren't even the same. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 04:38, July 28, 2013 (UTC)

My analysis would be different, based more on where their votes come from rather than support:
 * CCPLConChrSylSupport.png
 * The Conservative Christians have garnered support from their already strong voter base and peoples simple trust of the party, the lack of mid-term blues mean that CCPL could be onto a winner in coming elections.
 * CCPL in the Noble City Bay Area Rural voters more than inner city voters applaud the stability and progress of Ilavas government but they still support him all the same.
 * CCPL in the Sylvanian Highlands Area Slovak and Oceana voters along with Christians made up the core CCPL vote her but that didn't stop them from gaining more support.
 * CCPL in the Stephen Headland Area While CCPL focused only on Charleston rather than the rural area, they performed well, gaining support from the centre and right wing of the settlement.
 * CNPConNatSylSupport.png
 * The Conservative Nationalist party has pulled through with many strong shows of support due to heavy campaigning by grass roots members, getting out the vote and by the popularity and record of Hoffmann himself.
 * CNP in the Noble City Bay Area They find their strongest support in the Noble City Bay Area where a vast amount of voters support Hoffmann's actions as Governor.
 * CNP in the Train Village Plains Area Voters in the Train Village Plains have also shown their appreciation for Hoffmann's work to rebuild the area and his initiatives taken with other parties that have brought jobs back to Train Village.
 * CNP in the Discovery Isle Area Pudlian voters formed up largely behind the Governor, however some Pudlians along with the settlement in the south of the Island, Shepby, threw support behind Labour.
 * GPGreParSylSupport.png
 * The Greens, who have been taking a slow but steady approach to Sylvanian politics have shown their ability to garner votes, gaining strong support in the Headlands and Noble City.
 * GP in the Noble City Bay Area Strangely despite gaining half it's vote from it's grass roots, this party that considers itself to the left has garnered support from across the political spectrum.
 * GP in the East Sylvania Area Once again the party garnered left, centre and right support, allowing it to cut it close with Labour for who controls the seat.
 * GP in the Stephen Headland Area In another more direct confrontation with the Labour Party, the Greens seem to have pulled through, once again due to their wide spectrum of support.
 * LPLabParSylSupport.png
 * The Labour Party, which is currently going through a merger into the new left party UL, found wide support across Sylvania thanks to standing the most candidates of any party, providing a place for leftist voters to place their support.
 * LP in the Noble City Bay Area Finding more resolute support on the outskirts of the city rather than in the centre, Labour appears to have maintained its 2012 State Election results.
 * LP in the East Sylvania Area While they have the largest support in the area, their feet are being trodden on by up and coming parties such as PL and GP, who are only a minor percentage behind them in votes.
 * LP in the Train Village Plains Area The joint work with other parties to revitalise the Train Village Area has payed off for Labour putting them ahead and allowing them to keep their lucrative support there.
 * PLPosLovSylSupport.png
 * Positive Lovia has come bouncing back onto the scene and caught the eye of many, although their lack of exposure has led them to have less seats, they have proven they can give major parties a run for their money.
 * PL in the Noble City Bay Area While PL has polled low, as much is to be expected for a party returning to the fray, all in all they appear to have gained close to 10% of the Bay Area vote, an achievement with such little campaiging.
 * PL in the East Sylvania Area Here they really showed how well they could gather support, even with the presence of the CCPL, PL polled higher and for a time was winning in the area, showing their appeal to liberal voters.
 * PL in the Sylvanian Highlands Area While far behind the real controller of the area, CCPL, PL trod on the heels of LP, and is well on it's way to becoming the main opposition there.

My analysis in full. Hoffmann Kunarian TALK 09:49, July 28, 2013 (UTC)
 * Great! Nice to see CCPL doing well in a traditionally atheist state. Hope we can keep this up until the end :) --O u WTBsjrief-mich 09:55, July 28, 2013 (UTC)

Dear Sylvanians
--O u WTBsjrief-mich 10:08, July 28, 2013 (UTC)


 * Hoffmann approves of a screen full of Oos. Hoffmann LogoCNP2.png Kunarian TALK 10:10, July 28, 2013 (UTC)
 * --O u WTBsjrief-mich 10:13, July 28, 2013 (UTC)
 * Some design issues but you gotta love that smile. Just think of all the plans of Christian joy he's hatching.  10:24, July 28, 2013 (UTC)
 * Design issues? :o He surely is enjoying a Christian lifestyle though. Imagine that world with Biblical principles he is currently creating in his mind :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 10:26, July 28, 2013 (UTC)
 * The text isn't coming out too well in some areas, but then again I suppose coming out is not something your poster is supposed to promote. Other than that, I also expected a halo on top of your head. It would be way better with a halo... 10:32, July 28, 2013 (UTC)
 * Alright:
 * Yeah, I forgot to make it bold :(
 * Not at all, CCPL is not against homophily, we just oppose gay marriage, adoption of children by gay couples, and the sexual deed (homosexuality).
 * That would be blasphemy though, as Oos Wes Ilava is not declared holy :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 10:36, July 28, 2013 (UTC)
 * Almost did a spit-take with my coffee when I read the line 'the text isn't coming out too well in some areas, but then again I suppose coming out is not something your poster is supposed to promote.' :P --Semyon 12:53, July 28, 2013 (UTC)
 * Hahaha :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 17:35, July 28, 2013 (UTC)

Costello's 2013 agenda and rant
Hey again! I just wanted to elaborate a little more on my return and the implications, as well as my plans for the remainder of the year. For those that aren't very familiar with me, or have never known me well, I see my return as a chance to be able to reach out to you. It will also make for a great opportunity for me to reinvent myself. I'll explain how.

Because of my absence, I'll admit that you all have me at a bit of a loss regarding current events. Though I feel a renewed spirit to continue editing and contributing to the best of my ability, I feel the need to balance my presence. I've decided that I'm going to minimize my political standing for a while, until I feel sufficiently back on track. In the mean time, I want to better acquaint myself with the less political side of Lovia. The beauty of this site is that you can do anything from worldbuilding to maintain a political presence. When I first arrived here, over a year ago, I noticed that Lovia has long been a political arena and not quite living up to its "expanded universe" potential. Most lore articles were old, abandoned stubs. Fortunately, I've witnessed some notable revitalization in the past year. One particular example is the settlement project being worked on so diligently by all of you. Shoutout to Oos, Wabba and Kunarian in particular. The manner in which a wonderful example of a new settlement, Pool, was written all this past year in the window of time that I was away blows my mind (In fact, I plan on running it through Featured articles later on and I hope you'll all support me on that!). I love works that engage the community, and I expect more of that!

In a nutshell, I just want in on the action. Therefore, I'll be focusing mainly on developing everybody's favorite multinational corporation, Costello Enterprises for a while. You haven't seen the last of me in politics, however. I plan on getting around to rebooting Positive Lovia (getting a new logo in there and everything), or possibly just making a reintegrated successor to it, to represent the unapologetic voice of freedom and progress in the coming terms.

Which of our policies should PL, or its possible successor, focus on developing for the next term? Social liberties, civil rights and individuality Economic freedoms, market development Anti-corporatocratic, anti-economy abuse framework Social, economic and/or environmental ethical concerns State development For us to create a better Lovia, I'll need your input!

I look forward to working with you all! Cheers, — <font color=#2E6FFD>Christopher Costello (<font color=#2E6FFD>Pikapi • <font color=#2E6FFD>Chat  • <font color=#2E6FFD>What's up ) 21:55, July 28, 2013 (UTC)
 * Looks like I'm not the only one to return. I once again ran into polling troubles - is it my browser? Anyway, I support the socio-ecological ethics framework. But as a liberal party the first one would be a great pick too.  06:16, July 29, 2013 (UTC)

The question of public transit.
Public transit?

I've been noticing that Lovia's transportation seems to rely entirely on roads and intercity railways. Now, in the population centers, Noble City and Newhaven. Roads are main form of transportation. Either way, could there be bus lines or tram lines that go throughout Noble City or something?

Or do you think that the population is too small for those amenities?

I'm just quite curious about the infrastructure of Noble City and Newhaven.

Adams990 (talk) 05:03, July 29, 2013 (UTC)
 * There are bus lines, I'm just part way through detailing them. Out of interest, who are you and why are you interested? Hoffmann LogoCNP2.png Kunarian TALK 05:49, July 29, 2013 (UTC)
 * A quick summary of transport: The main transport system would be our roads, because small distances rule. There is a decent rail network for intercity commuting, we have bus companies like InterBus and some water transport like ferries for middle-range distances. And finally we have a monstrously oversized aerial transport capacity with airports in Noble City, Clymene and Newhaven. (And then there is the oddity, Zeppelinair). 06:25, July 29, 2013 (UTC)


 * Because of the Canary Islands. The island of Tenerife which near similar to Sylvania and Oceana (with the exception of the branching off peninsula and their own small island) has Santa Cruz de Tenerife. The city in question is similar in size to the Noble City and they have a tram system, called Tranvía de Tenerife, which the system is about 15.1 km (9.1 miles). That's the reason why I asked this question. There could be just one light rail/tram line in Noble City for those connecting from the airport to the downtown for tourists. Adams990 (talk) 13:04, July 29, 2013 (UTC)
 * Is there a particular benifit in adding a tram line? Wouldn't a bus service suffice? --O u WTBsjrief-mich 13:06, July 29, 2013 (UTC)


 * Well, for one thing. Tram lines can divert some of the traffic in Noble City during rush hour and they get to have their own rails unlike buses which have to share the roads with cars. It will also reduce pollution quite a bit. The only cons I can think of is that you have to plan the route carefully and have the line try to avoid obstructions. At least its cheaper than a subway/metro. (Oh and yes, underground light rail does exist but only segments of the line, not full.) Adams990 (talk) 13:32, July 29, 2013 (UTC)
 * Well, you could create a separate bus lane of course, which is quite common in countries like the Netherlands :) But I think the pollution thing is a very good argument :) --O u WTBsjrief-mich 13:35, July 29, 2013 (UTC)


 * Some more advantages including that the trains can in fact go bidirectional, meaning that they do not require to have a turning loop in order for the train to face the opposite direction. Also, for some reason people are more willing to transfer some trips onto the light rail rather than the bus. They can run on renewable electricity without having very expensive and short life batteries, and more. Disadvantages mostly include that the fact that car accidents may increase (but can be averted with enough warning signage and segregating their right of ways). Needs a good route, and also that the fact that bicycles with narrow tires can often get their wheels stuck in the rail. But otherwise, it seems fit for a big city like Noble City. Adams990 (talk) 14:03, July 29, 2013 (UTC)
 * Well, an elevated railway might fix most of the problems: (this happens to be a monorail though, but the idea is transferrable to tram). --O u WTBsjrief-mich 14:11, July 29, 2013 (UTC)


 * Better for an elevated tram than an elevated monorail. Monorails are so expensive to operate that its rare to find one (The most common place for monorails is Europe). Even I think the Sydney Monorail got closed recently because of high maintenance costs. But, you can't forget underground either. There are segments of the light rail line like the San Diego Trolley in San Diego or the MAX Light Rail in Portland where one station would be underground than the rest. An underground station would be good for Noble City International Airport. Adams990 (talk) 14:38, July 29, 2013 (UTC)
 * I'd prefer the tram not to be underground, at least for the most part, considering costs and construction time. But I'm sure we can work something out :) --O u WTBsjrief-mich 14:26, July 29, 2013 (UTC)


 * Should we bring the topic to the Governor of Sylvania's page? After all, he does want to help the working class and the light rail is cheap and easy to carry a lot of people. Not to mention that the fares can be low since the overall operating costs are lower. What do you think? Adams990 (talk) 14:38, July 29, 2013 (UTC)
 * Kunarian is the Governor, so he's already aware of it. I'm sure he'll read this page when he's back online :) --O u WTBsjrief-mich 16:26, July 29, 2013 (UTC)

I think the idea is nice however it's largest flaws are: To be honest the last one for me is probably the biggest problem. However on the points you raised: Unless you can address these I don't know how we can move forwards with this proposal at the moment however I am interested to hear more of your ideas on improving how Lovia works, especially Sylvania. Hoffmann Kunarian TALK 21:48, July 29, 2013 (UTC)
 * Costs, we've already spent quite a bit on a new Sylvanian Railway line, spending more on inserting a tram line would add greatly to costs, despite it being cheaper
 * Purpose, is already filled by various bus companies that do city, cross-state and inter-state lines
 * Accidents, they do cause problems and you've already stated they do
 * Space, Noble City was built for cars, and has space for cars, not trams, inserting a tram line would cause problems as space that would be used by cars is used up by trams, not to mention Noble City is an important port and has lots of commercial traffic too
 * Helping the working class, we're doing this by making bus travel cheaper and trying to institute interchangeable tickets
 * Helping the environment, we work on this in other ways as well as looking at transport, also Lovia is a lot more green than other countries in general

I can address some concerns. Either way. I've also heard that Pierloet McCrooke and the TV mayor have been also asking for Noble City to build a subway sytem, which is more expensive to operate. We could wait I guess.Adams990 (talk) 23:13, July 29, 2013 (UTC)
 * Costs, Even at the current population, I still don't think it is quite ready for a tram line. The only reason why our neighboring Brunant's largest city, Koningstad has a LRT (the S-train) is because that the population of Koningstad is 161,400, much more than Noble's City population. I don't mind to wait to get some more money before attempting this project.
 * Purpose I can agree that the city bus lines can serve their purpose, for now. But once more people start moving to Noble City, and traffic starts to increase, which will disrupt bus lines and timetables, then I think that we can go ahead with the LRT project in order to relieve some of the traffic (in order to vanquish traffic, you'll have to go through major roadworks).
 * Accidents Like I said, if there is enough warning signage and the excluse right of way isn't placed somewhere confusing, then there are going to be less accidents. However, if bicyclists need to cross the tracks, I'm not sure about that.
 * Space To fix some of the problems, maybe the routes can share the tracks with the Trans-Sylvanian Railway. Just build some new rails, add the neccessary equipment to power the light rail train and voila! Also, I think that we can relieve some of the space concerns by building segments of it underground, like a subway. Also, we can place the tracks on the medians of avenues, like for example Democracy Avenue.

Good, glad this is a conversation of ideas.
 * Costs, I think we should wait, until the population is more and until we have more spare spending room to use up.
 * Purpose, To be honest we will never vanquish traffic but alleviating it is a good idea, I think that you're right the LRT is a great idea for relieving traffic once Noble City gets a little more populous.
 * Accidents This could also be heavily solved by going with a raised tram line.
 * Space I think it's best if we maintain a separate system, especially as trams are only going to be useful inside the city and for a quick jump to the airport, which is not where the railways are (although there is a stop for the airport and a taxi system, a tram system will help alleviate distance problems). And I don't think it'd be easier to build it underground, it's always more expensive and difficult to build underground and would practically be a subway, I think a raised system would suit our needs best.

Also there is not TV mayor btw, and we are most certainly not going to build a subway, only the largest cities in the world really use proper subways and they are much more expensive to build and run. I think we could move forwards with plans for your ideas in my next term assuming I get in. The Tram System could be part of Sylvania Rail, ideas? responses? agreement? Hoffmann Kunarian TALK 23:24, July 29, 2013 (UTC)

Further discussion moved here. Adams990 (talk) 23:43, July 29, 2013 (UTC)

A political chart


I made a quick chart of the main political parties as they evolved from 2007 to now. Activity was measured in actual years as opposed to the fictional claims by some. Parties 'going back to the 80s' or that where created in retrospect are not shown. Joke parties and some others have been omitted. This is because the focus of this chart is to show the dynamics between parties: their respective strength at certain moments, mergers, ideological shifts, etc.

The parties are divided into 'blocks' based on their relations and ideology. From top to bottom: (1) the far-left and its predecessors, (2) green parties, sadly minus Walden which sits with (3) the center-left and its predecessors, (3) explicitly centrist parties, (4) the liberal family tree, (5) the conservative clubhouse, and (6) regionalist and separatist parties.

I think the chart shows the evolutions for the branches pretty well, despite some glitches (like the positioning of Walden). 08:30, July 30, 2013 (UTC)

I really do like it however the CNP has taken people mainly from the party Liberal Union and the Progressive Conservative Party as well as having it's own original grass roots. Other than that this is a very good representation of Lovia's political environment and evolution. Hoffmann Kunarian TALK 11:29, July 30, 2013 (UTC)
 * I believe the CNP article specifically mentioned the Progressive Conservative Party as its predecessor. Also, I felt both CNP and PCP were defined mostly against the other liberal parties, the latter being more openly of the progressive left-loving kind. Not that a chart could ever nail all the nuances of course. 13:32, July 30, 2013 (UTC)
 * A beautiful chart, I really do miss them :D Although I hate to be the "you missed something guy" but Farmer's Force is not there :P. Ugh, and I really do miss Martha and Andy from Walden. Marcus/Michael Villanova 13:56, July 30, 2013 (UTC)
 * @Yuri: It doesn't. The PCP article specifies that it merged into the CNP. And what do you mean 'against' other liberal parties? we're a liberal party. We're against authoritative socialists and parties around that, not liberals. If that were so we wouldn't have been the big organiser of the Libertarian coalition, which was made up of the LDP, GP, PL and the CNP. Hoffmann LogoCNP2.png Kunarian TALK 14:00, July 30, 2013 (UTC)
 * Loving this chart Yuri, excellent job! Though I feel you have missed something important here and that's a bit of a shame The glorious First Consul of Rome (talk) 15:24, July 30, 2013 (UTC)

Nice chart indeed :) --O u WTBsjrief-mich 17:53, July 30, 2013 (UTC)
 * Owkay a bunch of answers: I must have missed Farmer's Force because my main source was the List of political parties in Lovia. Also, where to put it? With the centrists or add it as a regionalist party? (2) The page of CNP does not seem to mention any info on predecessors at all, but the PCP page states that PCP was dissolved and merged into CNP. I will fix this in an update. As for the treatment as a party outside of the liberal family: it is of course liberal, but not like the other liberal parties. If you check under ideology in the infoboxes you will see a clear difference. I only meant that PCP/CNP is defined most clearly by this schism with the other liberals (which tend to make more use of the word 'progressive' and left-leaning discourse). This is just a tradition of a family line of liberal parties, it doesn't make PCP/CNP any less liberal. (Perhaps they are the true liberals ). Maybe I ought to give them some space of their own? (3) The IGP was a fascist fiasco, it came and it went in a completely unrelated way too all others. I might add it in an update if you think it is worth the space. 08:51, July 31, 2013 (UTC)
 * Yuri, Yuri, Yuri... the IGP was nothing as it currently is. As an act of protest and to make a statement against censorship, I ran on the IGP ballot in the May elections and got elected into local office on their behalf. Marcus contested this and said he'd press charges and drag me to court, but this never came to fruition and therefore the IGP's election went uncontested. There has been extensive reporting on the matter by the Freedom Press. The legal aspects of this might interest you, my old comrade. The glorious First Consul of Rome (talk) 09:11, July 31, 2013 (UTC)
 * As I said: for the update. I take it that the IGP will be wanting its own private branch for 'martyrs of order'? 09:15, July 31, 2013 (UTC)
 * That'd be most welcome, yes. And they have had to endure their fair share of martyrs during the years, especially during the Civil War. Such an unfortunate and needlessly bloody event. The glorious First Consul of Rome (talk) 09:20, July 31, 2013 (UTC)

Farmer's Force is just a proposal that hasn't made any real activity regardless of what the article says. Also, SLP has transitioned to centre-left, I would recommend moving it to the leftist category or something. PL probably fits with CNP's category, they are both centrist liberal to classical liberal. CPL.nm should have its strength shrunk in 2012 and 2013, and maybe you should make the dates change within the years, not just at the border between two years. One more thing, CCPL's strength should be MUCH higher, and RTP and other 1 or 2-seat parties need not be mentioned. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 03:29, August 3, 2013 (UTC)

Lovian Times Polling 2-3 August
Elections
 * 2-3 August 2013 - If a Federal Election happened tomorrow who would you give a major vote to?
 * 3 - Conservative Christian Party of Lovia
 * 0 - Social Christian Party
 * 2 - Social Liberal Party
 * 2 - Green Party
 * 3 - Conservative Nationalist Party
 * 1 - Labour Party
 * 1 - Other


 * 2-3 August 2013 - If a Federal Election happened tomorrow who would you give a minor vote to?
 * 3 - Conservative Christian Party of Lovia
 * 0 - Social Christian Party
 * 1 - Social Liberal Party
 * 4 - Green Party
 * 2 - Conservative Nationalist Party
 * 1 - Labour Party
 * 1 - Other


 * 2-3 August 2013 - If a Federal Election happened tomorrow who would you give a support vote to?
 * 2 - Conservative Christian Party of Lovia
 * 1 - Social Christian Party
 * 1 - Social Liberal Party
 * 2 - Green Party
 * 1 - Conservative Nationalist Party
 * 3 - Labour Party
 * 2 - Other

Approval
 * 2-3 August 2013 - Do you approve or disapprove of the Government's record to date?
 * 6 - Approve
 * 5 - Disapprove
 * 1 - Don't Know

Comments
Polling open again! Yuri if you want to post publicly again feel free to do so but I think I'd feel more comfortable if we could find a way to solve your problem. Hoffmann Kunarian TALK 08:32, August 2, 2013 (UTC)
 * I used another browser and that seemed to work. Strange though that my Safari won't let me vote. 09:03, August 2, 2013 (UTC)
 * Safari... You do know that most Africans did not have internet access until a few years ago è? :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 14:35, August 2, 2013 (UTC)
 * The same has happened to me on my home computer's Safari (it just reloads the page), but not on this guest Safari I am using. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 21:15, August 2, 2013 (UTC)
 * Mmm.. Maybe the version's different; have you tried updating your own (@TM&Yuri)? --O u WTBsjrief-mich 23:25, August 2, 2013 (UTC)
 * I tried but either it is the most updated version overall or the most updated version for Snow Leopard (name for Mac OS 10.6). :s This guest computer is on Mountain Lion (10.8), maybe it's related to that sort of overall computer update thing. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 03:32, August 3, 2013 (UTC)
 * I have the most recent version of Safari available for Windows 8. I also tried to pause all extensions to see if they were interfering, but nope. Guess I will have to switch browsers whenever I cast my vote in a poll. 07:35, August 3, 2013 (UTC)
 * Maybe you should just simply not use Safari at all :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 09:09, August 3, 2013 (UTC)
 * I am very pleased with my browser and other than this oddity never experienced any trouble. I think I'll stick to it. Any particular reason you advice against Safari? Like maybe Microsoft stock options you seek to cash in? :p 09:59, August 3, 2013 (UTC)
 * Hahaha, no, I'm a mozilla user most of the time :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 10:17, August 3, 2013 (UTC)
 * One word: Use google chrome bitches. The glorious First Consul of Rome (talk) 10:19, August 3, 2013 (UTC)
 * That's four words though :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 10:22, August 3, 2013 (UTC)
 * Google Chrome just isn't as good as Safari on Macs. :P —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 21:18, August 3, 2013 (UTC)
 * Simple answer... use windows. ;) Hoffmann LogoCNP2.png Kunarian TALK 21:59, August 3, 2013 (UTC)
 * But, Windows just isn't as good as Mac on... numerous things. :P 77topaz (talk) 23:29, August 3, 2013 (UTC)
 * One operating system for one... no. However considering the price of Windows computers and Macs, you can buy a computer with a Windows OS that can easily outdo a Mac anyday. Hoffmann LogoCNP2.png Kunarian TALK 23:51, August 3, 2013 (UTC)
 * I'm a Mac. I can't stand PC's. Even the keyboard throws me off. — <font color=#2E6FFD>Christopher Costello (<font color=#2E6FFD>Pikapi • <font color=#2E6FFD>Chat  • <font color=#2E6FFD>What's up ) 03:55, August 4, 2013 (UTC)
 * I grew up with Windows 3.11 and MS-DOS and I still can't get past XP. For me it's the last good OS :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 07:01, August 4, 2013 (UTC)
 * Windows, Mac, I don't think it really makes much of a difference for your standard civilian use. Just make sure you spend a little on good hardware and anything runs decent. I have a Chinese laptop, running Windows 8 and making use of Apple's free software. It works out just fine.  07:43, August 4, 2013 (UTC)

Just an interesting lingual thing
Bryngyng Lowya Forevards Togejere

Vylkume bak to another yer of the Kumserwatywe Thejeysyst Party donyng yt'se jobe to represente yu. Her ve hawe the 2013 Party Plann vryten by Lukas Hoffmann, detaylyng al offyʃyal wyevs of the party as dekren by the party parlyamentum an as agren to by the party lejere.

The KTP yse a party thet ajwokates soʃyal lyberteryanysm, klasykal lyberal ekonomyks an cywyk thejeysysm. Ve belewe thet aktyf an dedykaten polytesʃyunes vylle leje to a konstanslye empruwyng Lowya thet kepes upp myj the tymes. Soʃyallye ve ayme to helpe praeserwe kultures, relyjyones an trajyʃyunes an prowyje for the ko-exystence of dyferent belyfes an yjeales anlang myj thaet ve also want greater support for the less well off. Ekonomykallye ve ayme to use Government as a pointer for the ekonomyk deficits in the theje an provide for as freer market as possible while also protecting consumers an workers from supranational corporations an the negative trends they bring. Ve aim to stand up for kumserwatywer, lyberalor, soʃyalystor, upper, middle an working class men an women across the theje who belewe in getting anlang an helping each other develop a more democratic and prosperous Lowya.

I thought I'd take the introduction of my 2013 party political plan and translate it into Brethish. Just to see what the good users here think, it isn't completely done yet however everything up until "also want greater support for the less well off" is completely translated. The langauge is descended from English, and takes upon many of the characteristics of southern English accents and writing styles in the renaissance. Also there is no i in Brethish, that role is filled by y. Hoffmann Kunarian TALK 11:54, August 4, 2013 (UTC)
 * Is the schwa pronounced in verbs? Especially forms like "yse" are rather strange to me :P Also, what is the capital letter for ʃ? --O u WTBsjrief-mich 08:33, August 5, 2013 (UTC)
 * I assume not (not familiar with the term), most verbs have silent e's on the end. The capital for ʃ (although it's unlikely it'll be used) is Ʃ. Also quick thing to mention th is pronounced as a strong t and most j's have the sound of dg from badge. Hoffmann LogoCNP2.png Kunarian TALK 09:52, August 5, 2013 (UTC)
 * Are the sound laws regular from English to Brethish? --O u WTBsjrief-mich 11:29, August 5, 2013 (UTC)
 * If you mean does Bethish sound like English, not quite, the letter sounds are similar however the first example I found of a difference is the way "a" in English sounds like ay (/eɪ/) where as in Brethish it's ah (/a:/). So there's a slight but noticeable difference, here's a link to the temporary dictionary I'm making in Bretherland . Hoffmann LogoCNP2.png Kunarian TALK 11:39, August 5, 2013 (UTC)
 * So, Brethish will be somekind of "fossilized" English? @dict: That lay-out looks familiar :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 11:45, August 5, 2013 (UTC)
 * Kind of but not it's a different strain, a similar thing happened in Bermuda, because of their distance their language developed differently to English (for example Bemuda in Bemuda is Bemewja). Yes your style seemed the most logical way to do it, so I did it that way. Hoffmann LogoCNP2.png Kunarian TALK 12:00, August 5, 2013 (UTC)
 * Okay :P I would love to see phonology and grammar more developed, so it becomes a "real" language :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 12:02, August 5, 2013 (UTC)

Hmm ... Brethish and Bredish are rather confusingly named, aren't they? :P 77topaz (talk) 09:19, August 5, 2013 (UTC)
 * Well, Bredish is actually pronounced "Brittis(gh)" :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 09:25, August 5, 2013 (UTC)

Prince Sebastian
If we are to have a new King, he better have a good article so I have been working on improving Prince Sebastian's article in a way I believe to be non-controversial and hard to rub anyone the wrong way. Our King would be a true Lovian patriot, a man fond of his nation and it's culture, who remains silent on matters of faith and is a hard-working honest family man. Gave him some interests to so as not to have him become boring. Of course as he will be King of all Lovians, all Lovians should be able to give their imput I begin flashing Sebastian's character out better. Any feedback?

Also the monarchy discussion on the matter has been seeing a bit of a standstill and this is quite a shame, we should work on it. We are in this together, let us talk about this together.

Yours truly,

The glorious First Consul of Rome (talk) 12:50, August 4, 2013 (UTC)


 * I like it! — <font color=#2E6FFD>Christopher Costello (<font color=#2E6FFD>Pikapi • <font color=#2E6FFD>Chat  • <font color=#2E6FFD>What's up ) 14:22, August 4, 2013 (UTC)

It's a much more interesting character now. I'd hope that people can see the great many opportunities that lay ahead for our monarchy with Sebastian at the head. Hoffmann Kunarian TALK 09:53, August 5, 2013 (UTC)

Yes, me likes. It's well-written, fit for a king, I might say. HORTON11 : •  13:54, August 5, 2013 (UTC)
 * I see what you did there! :D iseewhatyoudidthere.jpeg Hoffmann LogoCNP2wt.png Kunarian TALK 11:30, August 8, 2013 (UTC)

More seriously though we really need to move this forwards, I'm happy to support the idea of a news story on Dimitri stepping down in favour of Sebastian. Hoffmann Kunarian TALK 11:36, August 8, 2013 (UTC)
 * Donia has to organize it I think :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 13:14, August 8, 2013 (UTC)
 * That was my assumption, at least now he knows he'll get some media outlet back-up! :D Hoffmann LogoCNP2wt.png Kunarian TALK 13:17, August 8, 2013 (UTC)
 * Hahaha, if he don't show up, he blew his chance :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 13:19, August 8, 2013 (UTC)

Lovian Times Polling 8-9 August
Elections
 * 8-9 August 2013 - If a Federal Election happened tomorrow who would you give a major vote to?
 * 4 - Conservative Christian Party of Lovia
 * 0 - Social Christian Party
 * 1 - Social Liberal Party
 * 3 - Green Party
 * 4 - Conservative Nationalist Party
 * 1 - Labour Party
 * 0 - Other


 * 8-9 August 2013 - If a Federal Election happened tomorrow who would you give a minor vote to?
 * 4 - Conservative Christian Party of Lovia
 * 0 - Social Christian Party
 * 0 - Social Liberal Party
 * 4 - Green Party
 * 3 - Conservative Nationalist Party
 * 2 - Labour Party
 * 0 - Other


 * 8-9 August 2013 - If a Federal Election happened tomorrow who would you give a support vote to?
 * 2 - Conservative Christian Party of Lovia
 * 2 - Social Christian Party
 * 1 - Social Liberal Party
 * 4 - Green Party
 * 2 - Conservative Nationalist Party
 * 1 - Labour Party
 * 1 - Other

Approval
 * 8-9 August 2013 - Do you approve or disapprove of the Government's record to date?
 * 6 - Approve
 * 3 - Disapprove
 * 3 - Don't Know

Flavour Polling
 * 8-9 August 2013 - Do you agree with the idea that Oceana has a separate political landscape from the rest of Lovia?
 * 5 - Yes
 * 5 - Yes, but I don't like it
 * 1 - No
 * 0 - No, and it should be more like the rest of Lovia
 * 0 - Don't Know

Comments
Controversial answer in the flavour polling! :O Hoffmann Kunarian TALK 11:49, August 8, 2013 (UTC)
 * Sloboda, priatel, sloboda!! :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 13:17, August 8, 2013 (UTC)
 * Hmm, this poll seems to be released late, but there aren't very many votes either. :P 77topaz (talk) 00:01, August 11, 2013 (UTC)
 * Very specifically I was waiting for more than 10 votes in each section. Hoffmann LogoCNP2wt.png Kunarian TALK 07:02, August 11, 2013 (UTC)

Back, added votes. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 23:44, August 11, 2013 (UTC)

That poll's already been released, in case you didn't know. :P 77topaz (talk) 03:39, August 12, 2013 (UTC)

Unfortunately. ;n; —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 13:03, August 12, 2013 (UTC)
 * Looks like SLP is doing bad this week :o --O u WTBsjrief-mich 13:10, August 12, 2013 (UTC)

End of SCP
Okay, okay. I think SCP didn't work out, and I'd like to thank the few people who supported us over the few months we were alive. As we couldn't agree on ideology, and our most active members, Charles Jones and Justin Abrahams left us, I've made the desicion of shutting the Social Christian Party down.

I'm guessing I'm on my own for now, since I made the most ridiclous move to leave the very popular CNP, which is the closest party on the wiki to my ideology (imo) but anyway I am likely to be rejoining Kunarian if he allows me to, which I'm unsure if he will.

Sorry to Horton, I know you really wanted to go on with the party, and I've tried contacting you recently but I guess this is my inactivity's fault, and that we have not got anywhere with an ideology desicion, but you don't seem to be around the Chat or anywhere. I'm going to be shutting it down, and the SCP may not be remade, unless it is some minor regional party that I make again, or I give permission for it's recreation (and nobody will want to recreate it anyway).

If anyone else is willing to let me join their party, I'd consider, but I think it's best for me to go back to Kunarian's party, as he is probably the best politician in this wiki, who gives real commitment to everything he works on, I hope you'll accept me back, Kun.

My username and character names are crappy, so I might be starting again, but I don't know just yet! Yeah, I'd just like to leave this official closing of the SCP at this, as I don't really want to make it as long as Pride and Prejudice.

The Social Christian Party is declared closed as of the 11th August 2013 - <font color="Teal"> Happy65  <font color="Aqua"> Talk CNP   16:08, August 11, 2013 (UTC)


 * Just like you and probably everyone I don't think it worked out either, so that's basically why I decided to leave. I must say I am surprised by your statement that I was the most active SCP member, as I've never really considered myself to be a really active user here, to be honest. But now you mention it, you're perhaps right... And don't worry about crappy (user)names, my username is more than twice as crappy as yours, and that's not a problem è :P 4kant,6FRÅGOR??? 16:41, August 11, 2013 (UTC)


 * Hehe. I knew this wouldn't work out almost from it's creation, but I never shut it down. Be sure to come over to chat, thanks mate.  <font color="Teal"> Happy65  <font color="Aqua"> Talk CNP  LogoCNP.png 16:50, August 11, 2013 (UTC)


 * I've already left an offer on your talk page Happy, you're welcome to rejoin the party. Although I'd like it if you put more things to me as party leader, so that if you have an idea we can form a united front rather than you go ahead and me not know what's going on. I'm ready to welcome you back, just read your talk page. Hoffmann LogoCNP2wt.png Kunarian TALK 17:29, August 11, 2013 (UTC)

Yay. :P Will you be keeping it as a minor party (1 or 2 seats in Congress)? —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 23:56, August 11, 2013 (UTC)

I'm not sure yet. After 6 months of SCP running, you finally got your wish! I got to get back on track in politics because State elections are soon. I don't know if I'll be running in Kings yet. :3 <font color="Teal"> Happy65  <font color="Aqua"> Talk CNP   06:16, August 12, 2013 (UTC)

Haven't you mainly been campaigning in Seven in the past? :/ 77topaz (talk) 06:34, August 12, 2013 (UTC)
 * I think Seven, like Oceana, is sort of decided before the elections already :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 09:15, August 12, 2013 (UTC)
 * Indeed :P 4kant,6FRÅGOR??? 09:16, August 12, 2013 (UTC)
 * Yeah, but he can still try to get the Deputy spot since QZ's inactive. :P 77topaz (talk) 09:49, August 12, 2013 (UTC)
 * Are you sure Semyon will stand, I know he pops in but he really isn't as active as many of us would like him to be anymore. Hoffmann LogoCNP2wt.png Kunarian TALK 10:21, August 12, 2013 (UTC)
 * He doesn't have a choice. I don't want to be the only old user :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 10:30, August 12, 2013 (UTC)
 * Don't forget Yuri. :P 77topaz (talk) 20:14, August 12, 2013 (UTC)
 * Did someone mention my name? :P --Semyon 20:22, August 12, 2013 (UTC)
 * Semyon! :D Hoffmann LogoCNP2wt.png Kunarian TALK 21:03, August 12, 2013 (UTC)
 * Oos was talking about you only a few lines above this, Semyon. :P 77topaz (talk) 03:53, August 13, 2013 (UTC)
 * (Since I'm mentioned: I wish to apologize for my low activity - I found a job to finance my field project next year. That takes up a lot of my hours, but I keep watching all developments. :p 05:50, August 13, 2013 (UTC) )
 * I also am working full-time, at the university chemistry department, hence why I've also been inactive. @Topaz: I know, I was speaking rhetorically. :P --Semyon 20:33, August 14, 2013 (UTC)

Referendum
Alright, we do it this way. Hold this vote now, and then enact it by the 2nd Ch.

Keep monarchy

 * Pro
 * 1)  --O u WTBsjrief-mich 10:17, August 14, 2013 (UTC)
 * 2)  4kant,6FRÅGOR??? 10:24, August 14, 2013 (UTC)
 * 3)  The glorious First Consul of Rome (talk) 10:41, August 14, 2013 (UTC)
 * 4)  - I implore others to vote pro on the basis that should the changes to the Monarchy prove unsatisfactory we may make provisions for another referendum such as this but until the change proves unsatisfactory we should go forwards with this alternative and support efforts to fix the system before we throw it out - Hoffmann LogoCNP2wt.png Kunarian TALK 11:19, August 14, 2013 (UTC)
 * 5)  —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 14:34, August 14, 2013 (UTC)
 * 6)  <font color="Teal"> Happy65  <font color="Aqua"> Talk CNP  LogoCNP.png 18:57, August 14, 2013 (UTC)
 * 7)  — <font color=#2E6FFD>Christopher Costello  (<font color=#2E6FFD>Pikapi • <font color=#2E6FFD>Chat  • <font color=#2E6FFD>What's up ) 01:46, August 16, 2013 (UTC)
 * 8)  Wabba The I (talk) 16:49, August 18, 2013 (UTC)
 * 9)   HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 17:26, August 19, 2013 (UTC)
 * 10)  --Quarantine Zone (talk) 22:49, August 19, 2013 (UTC)
 * 11)  Bart K (talk) 14:39, August 22, 2013 (UTC)


 * Contra
 * 1)  Marcus/Michael Villanova 14:24, August 14, 2013 (UTC)
 * 2)  Frijoles333 / Marcel Cebara (talk) 14:55, August 14, 2013 (UTC)
 * 3)  --Semyon 18:48, August 14, 2013 (UTC)
 * 4)  77topaz (talk) 08:42, August 16, 2013 (UTC)
 * 5)  Flag of the Hurian Federation.png Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 21:46, August 16, 2013 (UTC)
 * 6)  Vive la Republique!   08:34, August 18, 2013 (UTC)


 * Abstain/neutral

Donia for king

 * Pro
 * 1)  --O u WTBsjrief-mich 10:17, August 14, 2013 (UTC)
 * 2)  4kant,6FRÅGOR??? 10:24, August 14, 2013 (UTC)
 * 3)  The glorious First Consul of Rome (talk) 10:41, August 14, 2013 (UTC)
 * 4)  - Hoffmann LogoCNP2wt.png Kunarian TALK 11:19, August 14, 2013 (UTC)
 * 5)  <font color="Teal"> Happy65  <font color="Aqua"> Talk CNP  LogoCNP.png 19:10, August 14, 2013 (UTC)
 * 6)  — <font color=#2E6FFD>Christopher Costello  (<font color=#2E6FFD>Pikapi • <font color=#2E6FFD>Chat  • <font color=#2E6FFD>What's up ) 01:46, August 16, 2013 (UTC)
 * 7)  Flag of the Hurian Federation.png Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 21:43, August 16, 2013 (UTC)
 * 8)  Wabba The I (talk) 16:49, August 18, 2013 (UTC)
 * 9)  (A vote for Sebastian, hopefully not for Ygo A. as king)  HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 17:26, August 19, 2013 (UTC)
 * 10)  Bart K (talk) 14:39, August 22, 2013 (UTC)


 * Contra
 * 1)  Marcus/Michael Villanova 14:24, August 14, 2013 (UTC)
 * 2)  —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 14:34, August 14, 2013 (UTC)
 * 3)  Frijoles333 / Marcel Cebara (talk) 14:55, August 14, 2013 (UTC) Am I the only one who thinks that Donia is too controversial to be King?
 * 4)  --Semyon 18:48, August 14, 2013 (UTC)
 * 5)   08:36, August 18, 2013 (UTC)
 * 6)  --Quarantine Zone (talk) 23:49, August 24, 2013 (UTC)


 * Abstain/neutral

Comments
Oh yeah: two weeks :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 10:41, August 14, 2013 (UTC)


 * Yet, we didn't pass the referendum by the second chamber. Can I ask why this is all taking place in such a "shotty" way? Marcus/Michael Villanova 14:24, August 14, 2013 (UTC)
 * Because we've wasted more then enough time already as it is and republicans and skeptics have stalled things enough for their own selfish and ill-explained reasons. If this does not pass, I'd be sorely dissapointed in the progressiveness and logic of many a so-called progressive, and you can consider me gone. The glorious First Consul of Rome (talk) 14:49, August 14, 2013 (UTC)
 * Why do people always threaten to leave or do "all or nothings"? Why not stay around if there's a republic and run for President or Prime minister again? Marcus/Michael Villanova 15:20, August 14, 2013 (UTC)
 * Because some people would like action and want the Government to take a position and want Lovia to move forwards. They do not want people to take irresponsible positions on important matters and they want the right choice to be made. A Monarchy is right for Lovia because it costs us nothing and we only benefit economically and culturally, additionally it's abolition would possibly take years to truly complete and changing the large amounts of images and information that relates to the monarchy to be updated would be a mammoth task that I shall certainly not be taking part in. If you want to take a sledgehammer to an institution you should clean up the mess.
 * Additionally if you think that anyone would ever support such an empty and pointless position as a President of Lovia then you can forget that. We do not need political positions that will cost money and do NOTHING. Replacing the Monarch which costs us nothing and who is a cultural and historical figure (and who has the potential to be an even greater cultural, economical and historical leader under TMV) which has no political power and is ABOVE POLITICS as a leader with a President that will potential cost us upwards of a million Lovian dollars (as presidents have proven to be the least financially beneficial positions in the world, costing countries a lot and doing little but play a political game) and is nothing to our culture, history or economy and will have no political power but will create political quagmire.
 * I have a better idea instead of spending a million or more on a pointless and useless Presidential position why not put that into investing in new schools? or into investing in better public transport? or even in investing in Lovian business? That's what the CNP want to do and frankly what I think most Lovians would want us to do, and because we are a responsible party we are in favour of the Monarchy and in favour of fixing the system with Sebastian (Donia) not taking away something that is nothing but a boon to this nation and replacing it with something that will be nothing but a drag on our finances. Hoffmann LogoCNP2wt.png Kunarian TALK 15:38, August 14, 2013 (UTC)
 * 'Presidents have proven to be the least financially beneficial positions in the world'? I'd say the British royal family has a far better claim than most presidencies. Instead of spending millions on a useless monarchy, we could invest more in things that would genuinely boost Lovian culture. That's definitely what I'd rather do. --Semyon 19:45, August 14, 2013 (UTC)
 * We're actually not spending a single dime on the Royal Family, @Semyon. Lovia is unique in more ways then one. One of these is that for most of their costs, the Royals pay themselves as they have been left with a vast inheritence by their predecessors. Also you will see many of them are themselves businessmen and otherwise succesful people with jobs and responsibilities. All the state pays for is security (which the government officials also receive) and maintainence of the Palace (which belongs to our national heritage and therefore automatically receives public funds). Compared to the British or Dutch royals, the Lovian King and his family hardly cost us any money at all. The glorious First Consul of Rome (talk) 19:49, August 14, 2013 (UTC)
 * These are relatively minor points, but a) we actually spend up to $48000 on the monarchy (it's not known how much the King currently claims) and b) the royal palace was actually only built in the past few years, solely for Dimitri's use, so it wouldn't automatically receive public funds. More importantly, the function of the monarch is absolutely minimal - (s)he has to 'preside over congress' which the Speaker can perfectly well do on his own, and also hand out a few awards every year. Practically it's not worth the money. A president would not have to be paid any more, and seeing as it would actually be paid employment, rather than the monarch merely claiming money due to mysterious 'rights', they would have to do useful work, like diplomacy - that's assuming we'd have a presidency at all, which isn't certain. I don't see why the PM couldn't be both head of state and government. In any case, I find the idea of a monarchy very unpleasant, because it implies that one person is superior to the rest of their subjects. No matter how attractive/smart/nice the current monarch/monarch's partner is, the whole system stinks. --Semyon 20:14, August 14, 2013 (UTC)
 * Dare I say we are in a false dichotomy? I actually hate the idea of a President, and given the option would just have a Prime Minister. And I know I don't have to tell you, you know Kunarian, but Republic does not mean "Pro-President", I too would enjoy that money going to education and trasportation and everything else. Marcus/Michael Villanova 20:16, August 14, 2013 (UTC)

I know that I'm not really arguing on my own side here, but lots of money comes into the UK because of the monarchy, because lots of tourists like the idea of being able to visit places in the UK, like Buckingham Palace and the Tower of London, that have a real, living link with real monarchs, and that is where a lot of the UK's touristic appeal comes from. However, I really dislike the idea that there are people who are considered better than everybody else just because of the family they are born into, and I don't want one user to have an advantage over the rest of us just because they control the head of state, which could give them a lot of power over the wikia as a whole. I can see what Kunarian is saying about a lot of editing being done to put this change in place, and it would take some extensive work across the wiki to see this change happen. Anyways, that's just what I think :) Frijoles333 / Marcel Cebara (talk) 20:32, August 14, 2013 (UTC)

I tried answering about that first "economic" argument in the First Chamber (see:kunarian deabtes) I said while that maybe true for Britain (and it is), it maybe wouldn't be the same considering our Monarchy and country size. Just a thought and guess, I think has some validity though. And I still agree though with the whole equality debate :P Marcus/Michael Villanova 20:37, August 14, 2013 (UTC)

In reply to all of the current posts:

@Semyon: Presidents cost countries money when they are in office and when they have left office, Royalty at least provides economic benefits (definitely so in Britain) to offset this normally and in Britain they are by far a huge net positive to Britain's economy. And we DO NOT spend millions on the monarchy, they are receiving NO MONEY, they are simply not in the budget, no claims for support have been made and so they do not get a dime nor a cent. He claims nothing. And the roles they do carry out currently are for free because they receive no money!

@Marcus: No false dichotomy, you said that TMV could stay and try to be elected president which suggested that you envisioned a Lovia with a president instead of a monarch. And if you enjoy the idea of more money going to Education and such then why do you support a move that would cost money and could cause either a large increase in public debt if we fix the problem by simply spending or a large increase in private debt if we fix the costs by taxing to cover that spending as we work to both continue with our promises and deal with the astronomic changes that will have to happen.

@Frijoles: the Monarch has no power to do anything, if anything the most powerful person on the wikia is Oos rather than the Monarch and he does not abuse power unlike previous governments. Although I must say I appreciate your full view and do respect it even if I disagree with your conclusion being not in favour of a monarch.

May I just state here, should we continue with a Monarchy I will be happy but I will also be happy if we decide to become considered a Constitutional Democracy however. Due to the fact that as Lovians we should be proud of our Democracy which I believe is a strong belief that we all hold dear and that as Lovians we should be proud we are governed by the rule of law. I want this to be what we consider ourselves rather than a Republic, firstly because it means absolutely nothing to Lovia as a nation should we not have a monarch other than "we don't have a monarch" and on top of that it does not in itself suggest democratic and as we know today, some of the worst places on this earth call themselves Republics (North Korea for one although they put democratic in there for a laugh). We should reject the word as it means nothing to our history truly and nothing to our culture whereas democracy and the rule of law are at the forefront. Hoffmann Kunarian TALK 22:41, August 14, 2013 (UTC)

I skimmed everything else, but just because some authoritarian countries pretend they are a republic by calling themselves one doesn't make republic a bad term. It just means something like "rule by law" instead of majority like democracy is. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 16:18, August 16, 2013 (UTC)
 * Law can be anybodies, technically the USSR was ruled by the law, that was certainly not a pretty picture. The term Constitutional Democracy is surely superior to this meaning, as if we simplify the meaning of constitutional democracy we get "Rule of the majority, under the law" which is simply what I'm advocating. Hoffmann LogoCNP2wt.png Kunarian TALK 20:03, August 16, 2013 (UTC)

@Kunarian: All presidencies are going to cost something, but the President of Ireland (for example), who has a very limited legislative role, costs 112 times less than the British monarchy. Whether a monarchy is an economic benefit anyway, including in Britain, is highly questionable. It's not fair to say that we spend nothing on the Lovian monarchy, as IC nothing is known about government expenditure on the royal family, as I don't believe a budget has ever been passed. They are free to claim up to $48000 dollars p.a. in addition to any security costs, maintenance to the palace etc. You mention the role of the monarchy but I'm not aware that the King does anything useful. At any rate, he isn't obliged to do anything other than preside over congress (which the Speaker can do by himself) and hand out a few awards. That Marcus once suggested TMV could run for president does not mean you can assume he supports the establishment of a presidency, though I certainly agree with him that Donia-as-president would be far preferably to Donia-as-king. --Semyon 17:44, August 16, 2013 (UTC)
 * I think you and I both know that the President of Ireland is hardly a good comparison for the British Monarchy, especially considering that most presidencies do not publish their travel costs, staff cost, other basic expenditures along with extras on top of their basic salary. Not to mention the HUGE difference in the economy and government size of the two nations. If you want to compare to a similar nation, France's Presidency costs them FIVE TIMES AS MUCH as Britain's Monarchy, so NO presidencies are not cheaper and in being that much more expensive are NOT an economic benefit. Additionally the possible 48,000 Lovian dollars is NOTHING compared to the million or so more that we would end up spending on a Presidency, Monarchy is cheaper.

And concerning an economic benefit, it is COMPLETELY fair to say we spend NO money on the monarchy because we don't there is a budget, drawn up by Timemaster as the Minister of Finance he controls where money goes, no need to be passed by Congress and there is no money going directly to the monarchy at all, additionally they have NO exclusive money spent on them. I can reassure you that as the Minister for Defence the Royal Guard are there to protect all Lovian citizens although they mainly deal with protecting the GOVERNMENT not the Monarchy exclusively.

Additionally the Monarch is useful, although his usefulness hasn't been used due to the absence of Dimitri, under TMV as Sebastian we would have better diplomacy, a more unified Lovia and a monarchy that is seen and heard doing things inside and outside of Lovia to boost Lovia's standing as a nation. And with Marcus all I was doing was looking at the fact he suggested that a Republican Lovia would have a presidency, if he didn't support the idea, he shouldn't have said it, simple as. Hoffmann Kunarian TALK 11:04, August 17, 2013 (UTC)
 * A president does not automatically require more money than a king. And with a conventional monarchy, you have a whole royal family instead of just one person, as well. :P 77topaz (talk) 12:27, August 17, 2013 (UTC)
 * Kunarian, I think the President of Ireland is a very fair comparison to the British monarchy. In both cases you have a head of state with a minimal involvement in government. The French president otoh has a important role in governing the country, and is still significantly cheaper than the British monarchy. TimeMaster's budget has never been approved, and doesn't even exist on the main namespace, so I can't accept it as legitimate. I don't believe Marcus ever stated that a Republican Lovia would have a president, but he explicitly said he was opposed to the idea. --Semyon 12:45, August 17, 2013 (UTC)
 * It's not, because the Queen is actually important to the governance of Britain, she is vital to every single law being passed along with a huge varience of other things not to mention diplomacy. No it isn't Semyon, you are completely wrong there I'm sorry, the British Monarchy costs 36.1 million pounds and the French President costs 154 million pounds, so no they aren't cheaper Semyon. Also TimeMaster's budget does not need to be approved because he has full power over the flow of money as the Minister of Finance. He first said that TMV should stay and run for president then he stated he was against a presidency, so basically he has no idea where he's taking this idea of a 'republican' Lovia. Hoffmann LogoCNP2wt.png Kunarian TALK 17:32, August 17, 2013 (UTC)
 * @Topaz: we are not required to give money to anyone but the Monarch upon request and the most he can request a year is 48,000 Lovian dollars, which he currently isn't claiming. A single MotC costs us more than the Monarchy. They cost us 50,000 Lovian dollars. I think it's fair to say we have an excellent deal compared to other nations with a Monarchy. Hoffmann LogoCNP2wt.png Kunarian TALK 17:39, August 17, 2013 (UTC)

Semyon, in reply to maintance of palaces. These buildings are national monuments. Abolishing the monarchy does not imply that we no longer have to maintain those buildings :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 11:22, August 17, 2013 (UTC)
 * It wouldn't be a monument if the king didn't live there though. :P --Semyon 12:45, August 17, 2013 (UTC)
 * It would, national monuments don't stop being national monuments just because you don't regard the people living there as important anymore. Hoffmann LogoCNP2wt.png Kunarian TALK 17:32, August 17, 2013 (UTC)

So this referendum ends tomorrow. Are we actually going to implement the results? :P --Semyon 14:10, August 27, 2013 (UTC)
 * If this vote gets four more votes, it is going to be implemented :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 10:31, August 28, 2013 (UTC)

Middle ground
Is there not some middle ground to be found? It seems to me we seek to achieve two things: (1) give Lovia's political live a boost and (2) fix the absence of our king. Yet any plans must fight an uphill battle due to republican sentiments and the controversy of who will 'control' the king. Since the monarchy vs. republic vote is rather balanced we might consider a circumcised monarchy. We install Sebastian as our monarch, yet take away all of his political power (thus fixing further controversy). Change and continuity - a perfectly centrist liberal solution not unlike the real world historical compromises. 08:41, August 18, 2013 (UTC)
 * I completely agree but he already has little to no power, most republican sentiments are negative and reactionary rather than envisioning a way forwards, they simply jump at the thought of a monarchy and want to destroy it. Although I do say most, I know that more understanding parties such as the Green Party members and Semyon actually have well thought out reasons. Hoffmann LogoCNP2wt.png Kunarian TALK 08:53, August 18, 2013 (UTC)
 * I agree on this middle ground fully, Yuri. An a-political monarch is how I envisioned things, and Prince Sebastian would be well-fitted for that particular function. If later Republicans do somehow gain a majority in favour of deposing Sebastian, he too will go and a republic installed. However it seems with your middle ground, you should be able to support Sebastian's kingship yet you voted contra on the matter. Whereas the King I envision is indeed your middle-ground, a-political and symbolical monarch you described above. The glorious First Consul of Rome (talk) 09:06, August 18, 2013 (UTC)
 * I'll ignore the ridiculous metaphor you wrote. Please never say that again. Anyway, the monarchy is already quite weak and doesn't have any real political power, so I don't think that'll be necessary. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 00:40, August 20, 2013 (UTC)
 * I agree with Regaliorum, his middle ground view is probably the best option for us. HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 00:53, August 20, 2013 (UTC)
 * I disagree because the monarchy already has no real power. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 03:41, August 20, 2013 (UTC)
 * I agree with the middle ground, and the best part of it is that we ain't got nothing to fix, cuz it's the current situation with only the current monarch being replaced with another... :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 09:24, August 20, 2013 (UTC)
 * This sounds very nice but it's not actually a middle ground because it's identical to the current situation, the one supported by monarchists, as OWTB and TimeMaster already pointed out. Generally I'm all for compromises, but unfortunately it's not possible this time because the issue is binary, i.e. either we have a king or we don't - there is no middle ground. --Semyon 17:57, August 20, 2013 (UTC)
 * Semyon, you either support me or you don't :P As I pointed out earlier, it's a hell of a job to change everything; if you anti-monarchist guys are willing to spend weeks on fixing everything, who am I to oppose you. However, in earlier situations it has been pointed out that not a single soul is willing to do so. Therefore, I do not consider abolition of our monarchy to be an option. It is my task as admin/Prime-Minister to protect the wiki/country from making huge mistakes like we did sometimes in the past, and I consider abolition of the monarchy to be one of those mistakes... --O u WTBsjrief-mich 01:18, August 21, 2013 (UTC)
 * We are nearing that blurred frontier region were no distinction can me made between personal opinions on content and administrative powers over form. Returning to such quarrels would most surely be a mistake, as the past has proven. In the middle ground proposal I would strip the King of any power possibly left, so reading over the Constitution is a must. I'd hate to conclude in retrospect we missed anything.  06:17, August 21, 2013 (UTC)
 * Sure, though, in Article 1B there is little power left :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 08:49, August 21, 2013 (UTC)

Lovian Times Polling 18-19 August
Elections
 * 18-19 August 2013 - If a Federal Election happened tomorrow who would you give a major vote to?
 * 3 - Conservative Christian Party of Lovia
 * 1 - Social Liberal Party
 * 2 - Green Party
 * 3 - Conservative Nationalist Party
 * 2 - United Left
 * 0 - Positive Lovia
 * 0 - Other


 * 18-19 August 2013 - If a Federal Election happened tomorrow who would you give a minor vote to?
 * 3 - Conservative Christian Party of Lovia
 * 1 - Social Liberal Party
 * 3 - Green Party
 * 3 - Conservative Nationalist Party
 * 1 - United Left
 * 0 - Positive Lovia
 * 0 - Other


 * 18-19 August 2013 - If a Federal Election happened tomorrow who would you give a support vote to?
 * 1 - Conservative Christian Party of Lovia
 * 1 - Social Liberal Party
 * 3 - Green Party
 * 1 - Conservative Nationalist Party
 * 1 - United Left
 * 2 - Positive Lovia
 * 1 - Other

Approval
 * 18-19 August 2013 - Do you approve or disapprove of the Government's record to date?
 * 5 - Approve
 * 4 - Disapprove
 * 1 - Don't Know

Flavour Polling
 * 18-19 August 2013 - Do you think that a Lovia without a Monarch should have the Prime Minister as the head of state or a President
 * 4 - Prime Minister
 * 3 - President
 * 2 - Neither
 * 1 - Don't Know

Comments
HUGE change in the polls now adapting for loss of Social Christian Party, and the return of Positive Lovia as well as the new United Left. Hoffmann Kunarian TALK 08:59, August 18, 2013 (UTC)
 * It seems I completely missed these polls :o 4kant,6FRÅGOR??? 12:36, August 21, 2013 (UTC)
 * Are these actually going to be added to the Lovian Times's website at some stage? :P 77topaz (talk) 02:13, August 25, 2013 (UTC)

Imagine...
There was a recent discussion over transportation, and although Noble City is extremely too small one can imagine if NC was filled with 600,000 people instead of 60,000. Add in any quick suggestions :P Marcus/Michael Villanova 16:44, August 18, 2013 (UTC)
 * Well imagine a similar system of transport above the heads of Lovians as they walk the streets, a cheap and reliable form of transport that will help free up the roads as the capital grows. That would be the light rail system that has been considered recently and that would be an idea the CNP are taking on board for the next State Elections. On the original matter, I do like the map, I do love visualisations in general, on another matter I'm sure you appreciate me adding UL into the polling. :) Hoffmann LogoCNP2wt.png Kunarian TALK 18:30, August 18, 2013 (UTC)
 * Of course :P and yeah its just a thought. Id rather have bus transport since its a small city. Marcus/Michael Villanova 21:42, August 19, 2013 (UTC)
 * If we were big enough we could make something like this:
 * http://images.wikia.com/conworld/images/0/0c/Metro_Carnoa%2C_Antaria.png

If we really want to go into light rail, we could just use Koningstad's S-Train as a model, a mix of under and (mostly) overground trains. HORTON11 : •  20:14, August 19, 2013 (UTC)

You use the same Metro Map creator I see :P and yeah I wish we could have a bigger lovia, by population, like at least 1 million or 800,000. Marcus/Michael Villanova 21:42, August 19, 2013 (UTC)


 * Yeah I've been using that one for a while. It's the same one for the S-train map. But tbh we have a perfectly good enough population, we have Brunant and Libertas to work on larger projects due to population. HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 22:43, August 19, 2013 (UTC)
 * The "Beno" one? I can't seem to get that one working properly at the moment. :P 77topaz (talk) 04:10, August 20, 2013 (UTC)

Wow Marcus, you've inspired me! Now I'm getting carried away with the metro map creator! I'll add my crazy/unrealistic Noble City Subway map soon :) Frijoles333 / Marcel Cebara (talk) 13:12, August 21, 2013 (UTC)

So here it is everyone! Here's a quick look at what we could do if Noble City had a bigger population. I used that Beno metro map creator!



So tell me what you think, and please bear in mind that I think NC is currently too small for a system like this, but it is something quite cool that we could implement in the future if the population grew a lot :D Frijoles333 / Marcel Cebara (talk) 18:54, August 21, 2013 (UTC)

Hm, the Beno map creator doesn't let me select routes properly (making it impossible to edit the second route), and the "Clear" button only deletes part of the default map. Any new routes I create all get the same colour, no matter how many different ones there are. :P 77topaz (talk) 20:28, August 21, 2013 (UTC)

2015 or 2017 IWO Games
Because nobody is interesting in the current 2013 IWO Games in Brunant, the Libertan capital and largest city Wikistad will do a bid for the 2015 or 2017 IWO Games. If there are Winter IWO Games, the Libertan winter resort Wikigebergte will do a bid for that. Wabba The I (talk) 14:14, August 22, 2013 (UTC)
 * I'm very much concerned about the up-to-dateness of Libertas. Are there any pages like this one (set to be presented on 21 July 2013 while it's nearly September already)? --O u WTBsjrief-mich 09:15, August 24, 2013 (UTC)


 * Yes, Oos. Many of them are related with 2007 or 2009. Almost every company, sports competition, political party or whatever is established in 2007 or 2009 but I am adding information about now and previous times so I am trying to do my best very hard. Wabba The I (talk) 09:22, August 24, 2013 (UTC)
 * Okay, are you also keeping "modern-day" pages on current events up to date? Cause I understand you can't keep track of those hundreds of pre-Wabba pages :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 09:27, August 24, 2013 (UTC)

Wabba, you should have finished those diving results for the 2013 IWO Games, it would have helped. One problem we seemed to have run into that would affect all future IWO Games as well is how to determine the results (distances, times etc.) for individual sports? 77topaz (talk) 21:42, August 24, 2013 (UTC)


 * We can take good results but less than the World Championships and Olympics of course and I am looking if the character has a long article, if it is a famous sports in the country or if twin countries (Lovia with America, Libertas with the Benelux, Adlibita with eastern countries ...) are good in that sports. Wabba The I (talk) 08:27, August 25, 2013 (UTC)

Inselöarna is doing a bid for the coming winter games too. 4kant,6FRÅGOR??? 14:56, August 25, 2013 (UTC)


 * Haha. Good idea. But! 1) Are there Winter IWO Games and when? 2) Are the normal IWO Games every two years or four years? Wabba The I (talk) 20:38, August 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * 1) Last year we almost unanimously decided that there will be Winter games, probably in January or February. 2) I actually thought they were supposed to be help once a year :P But If that's too much, once every two years is fine with me too :P 4kant,6FRÅGOR??? 17:26, August 26, 2013 (UTC)
 * Considering our quickly changing demographics, 4 years is too long :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 17:28, August 26, 2013 (UTC)
 * That's what I thought too :P 4kant,6FRÅGOR??? 17:29, August 26, 2013 (UTC)


 * Every year a Winter and Summer edition then? Wabba The I (talk) 19:16, August 26, 2013 (UTC)
 * Hmm... I'm not sure we'd be able to organise it quite that frequently. :P 77topaz (talk) 07:53, August 27, 2013 (UTC)
 * True. I propose to have summer editions in odd years and winter editions in even years :P 4kant,6FRÅGOR??? 14:36, August 27, 2013 (UTC)


 * Okay. But I don't think other countries want a bid for the 2014 IWO Winter Games and the Insel Islands is a good place. Wabba The I (talk) 15:48, August 27, 2013 (UTC)
 * The Southern Arc Islands would be the only "winter" wikination other than Insel, I think. 77topaz (talk) 20:09, August 27, 2013 (UTC)


 * I forgot that. Do the Arc Islands give a bid? Wabba The I (talk) 20:31, August 27, 2013 (UTC)
 * Does SA still exist? :o --O u WTBsjrief-mich 10:29, August 28, 2013 (UTC)


 * If you mean the Southern Arc Islands, yes they still exist. And those two places are the two candidate cities for the 2014 Winter IWO Games. Wabba The I (talk) 14:04, August 28, 2013 (UTC)

Maps!
Please could someone explain to me how to make the settlement maps? I want to make one for Newcastle, but didn't want to copy the map from another town. Thanks in advance :) Frijoles333 / Marcel Cebara (talk) 16:21, August 24, 2013 (UTC)
 * Well, copying a small map from another settlement and then adjusting it would probably work out fine :) Just try out and eventually you'll learn making maps yourself :) --O u WTBsjrief-mich 16:24, August 24, 2013 (UTC)

Thank you Oos! I'll have a go at doing that :) Frijoles333 / Marcel Cebara (talk) 16:30, August 24, 2013 (UTC)

I've finished the map now (although I haven't been doing it for three hours, I had some pizza when the map was half done!) and your help is much appreciated :) Frijoles333 / Marcel Cebara (talk) 18:15, August 24, 2013 (UTC)

Haha, I always go for the copy and adjust method. I think most people don't realize the Novosevensk map was stolen from Beaverwick (Bay of Estonia = Normandy Forest). :P --Semyon 08:44, August 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * Haha, I copied the Beaverwick map too, in Newcastle I replaced the Normandy Forest with the Village Square Frijoles333 / Marcel Cebara (talk) 16:46, August 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * I haven't noticed that, but that's probably mainly because I've actually never even seen the Beaverwick map, I believe :P 4kant,6FRÅGOR??? 09:04, August 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * I tend to create maps from scratch. Simply because I prefer to have something else than the typical grid system we've got in Lovia :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 12:34, August 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * So do I :P 4kant,6FRÅGOR??? 12:36, August 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * @Frij - I was gonna say "Hey you copied Cornwall not Beaverwick!" until I realized Cornwall is a copy of Beaverwick:P So it's Corwnall, Beaverwick, Novo and Newcastle sharing a map. well then xD Marcus/Michael Villanova 17:48, August 25, 2013 (UTC)

Newcastle, Kings


As most of you probably know recently I've been working on Newcastle, one of the new hamlets in Kings and I've just finished the settlement map, which means now everyone can buy shops/houses there :D

From an IC perspective, I think it would be a great place to live, with its quiet harbour, picteresque scenery and excellent restaurants! Because of its ferry connections, Newcastle is also quite a convenient place to be if you need to travel to Sylvania regularly!

So, what are you waiting for? Come to Newcastle! Frijoles333 / Marcel Cebara (talk) 18:29, August 24, 2013 (UTC)

Since I'm against this kind of buy-and-sell model of housing and shops, please just contact me or Marcel if you want to establish a shop there retroactively. If you want to move in to a house, replace your name over the word "Housing". —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 03:39, August 25, 2013 (UTC)

Wikination: a book
I would like to make a picture/factbook on wikination but would like your input. This would be one of those coffeetable type books but would need assistance from those on other wikinations. I would like to get:
 * a facts section, including capital, population, area, highest point, just simple geographic/demographic facts
 * a small paragraph on the country, perhaps a bit of history and culture
 * several varied photos on the country

My idea would be to have an opening page for each country with a large photo on the front with facts underneath, and another page (maybe 2 if necessary) for the blurb and other pictures.

Ideas, comments? HORTON11 : •  14:43, August 26, 2013 (UTC)
 * For each (big) wikination? Sure, sounds like a good idea :) --O u WTBsjrief-mich 14:50, August 26, 2013 (UTC)

Sounds like a good idea. Do you mean a real book or just one on the wiki? Frijoles333 / Marcel Cebara (talk) 16:31, August 26, 2013 (UTC)
 * Sounds like a good idea :) 4kant,6FRÅGOR??? 17:16, August 26, 2013 (UTC)


 * Yeah but do you means (like Frijoles333 / Marcel Cebara said) an article page, a real book in real life or a page with no Lovia-relations? Wabba The I (talk) 19:18, August 26, 2013 (UTC)
 * It's supposed to be a real book, but on the site. I didn't actually mean a bound book. HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 20:46, August 26, 2013 (UTC)

That'd be good! It might help new users get to know all the wikinations, and might encourage them to become active in Brunant, Libertas or Maores too! Frijoles333 / Marcel Cebara (talk) 20:50, August 26, 2013 (UTC)


 * Yes. But to those interested, I'd need your hlp collecting the necessary facts listed above, cause I don't speak all wikination languages and it's a ton of work to go through all the good ones. HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 16:17, August 27, 2013 (UTC)

There are wikinations in English, Dutch, Limburgish, Romanian and Swedish right? Unfortunately I don't speak any of those languages, apart from English and a few words of Dutch (Ik ben Frijoles!). If there are any French or Spanish wikinations I could help with those Frijoles333 / Marcel Cebara (talk) 16:22, August 27, 2013 (UTC)


 * Sorry, no French or Spanish wikinations of enough content. Only Lovia, Brunant, Libertas, Mäöres, Adlibita Inselöarna and maybe Strasland/Pintona have enough material and pictures to work. HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 16:25, August 27, 2013 (UTC)

What about the Harvian Islands? Frijoles333 / Marcel Cebara (talk) 16:30, August 27, 2013 (UTC)

I guess so. HORTON11 : •  16:32, August 27, 2013 (UTC)

And perhaps also Burenia, though that one doesn't have that many pictures :P 4kant,6FRÅGOR??? 16:36, August 27, 2013 (UTC)


 * Burenia doesn't really fit in as it is a special type of wikination. Plus I think having around 8 should be enough. HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 16:38, August 27, 2013 (UTC)
 * Okay. 4kant,6FRÅGOR??? 16:40, August 27, 2013 (UTC)

Would Bretherland be applicable, I'm getting it closer and closer to the point where it's workable and I can add in some piccars soon. Hoffmann Kunarian TALK 17:25, August 27, 2013 (UTC)


 * Well I'm going to make an example using Brunant for the book, and if you can get the data/images as in that one, it should be ok. HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 18:04, August 27, 2013 (UTC)

@Kunarian: After you said that I decided to check out the Bretherland wiki... And it looks really good! Frijoles333 / Marcel Cebara (talk) 18:09, August 27, 2013 (UTC)

1) @Frijoles333: You can't speak Dutch because you said "Ik ben Frijoles." and in Dutch it is "Ik ben Frijoles333." 2) @Horton11: There is a French-speaking wikination and it is called "Cétatie" and it is not very well (Greenday2) 3) @Frijoles333: I think the Harvian Islands is a good idea because Happy65 is doing very well outside there ...... 4) @Horton11: I guess so too. 5) Burenia is too much. Horton11 has right. Sorry, my Swedish friend. 6) Bretherland is good for adding, because I am Prime Minister Joseph Honest outside there. Hahaha. 7) That is a very good idea, Horton11. 8) Yes, Frijoles333. It really looks good. Wabba The I (talk) 20:46, August 27, 2013 (UTC)

@1: Haha I was just shortening my username to Frijoles instead of Frijoles333, but still I can't speak Dutch Frijoles333 / Marcel Cebara (talk) 21:07, August 27, 2013 (UTC)

It might be a good idea to replace Pintona with the Southern Arc Islands, since Pintona has less content and is less active, and there's quite some stuff from Masterire at Pintona too, I believe. 77topaz (talk) 04:24, August 28, 2013 (UTC)

So if we take the Arc Islands too we have: Libertas, Lovia, Brunant, Adlibita, Insel Islands, Mäöres and Southern Arc Islands? 7 in total. Wabba The I (talk) 09:07, August 28, 2013 (UTC)
 * Don't forget Bretherland! then we have 8! :D Hoffmann LogoCNP2wt.png Kunarian TALK 10:18, August 28, 2013 (UTC)


 * If harvia becomes more active, it's in. The main history when it was the 2nd main english wikination would be the era to write about however. <font color="Teal"> Happy65  <font color="Aqua"> Talk CNP  LogoCNP.png 12:03, August 30, 2013 (UTC)

It has been done, Sebastian is now King Sebastian of Lovia. <font color="Teal"> Happy65  <font color="Aqua"> Talk CNP   12:10, August 30, 2013 (UTC)

King Sebastian speaking


<p class="MsoNoSpacing">Ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls. My most beloved fellow countrymen, a new age is upon us. Today marks the beginning of a new age, a new era in Lovian history. With the abdication of our most honourable King Dimitri, and the recent misfortunes of his brother Prince Alexander, a new King will take the throne. That King, my dear brothers and sisters, is me. And that day, is today. Today is not only a day for celebration for yours truly and you, my friends, but also one for reflection. Let us remind the brave sacrifices our previous King has made for us. Surely my cousin has worked well, has he not? Surely he has worked hard, and given up so much for his work. Free time he had not, tirelessly working for the good of the nation. But every man has a limit, a breaking point. His came two years ago, in 2011. No speech or public appearance we saw since. My cousin is not a bad man, he isn’t. But neither is he a strong man, nor very passionate about the affairs of state. Ever since the Civil War he preferred to stay out of the limelight, hiding away in his private domicile with his wife Elizabeth. He has every right to do so, but a nation needs a head of state who is visible, who is there for his people. Especially when dark days are ahead, when violence sweeps the nation and his people need him most. In the Civil War I fought, as did brave men such as Oos Wes Ilava, and Mr. Costello. As did many, many other daring men and women. Young and old, they shed blood for the nation, and our current wealth shows it this was not in vain.

<p class="MsoNoSpacing">My cousin, however, did nothing. When there was trouble, he fled. Flat-out ignored it, refused to comment. A coup? He fled. A war tearing apart the nation he is supposed to rule? Nowhere he is to be seen. I will have no ill word spoken of this man, as he is my flesh and blood and I care for him deeply. But this man, we can all agree, was neither strong nor powerful and was clearly not cut out for the job. He lacked courage and he lacked conviction. He was a man of books, a man of letters. A learned man, but not hardened and strong. He was stately nor imposing, as much in need of a spine as I am of intellectual prowess. I stand here before you, not a learned man like him, but a man like any other. I am not a bookworm, though I love reading, nor am I a professor. I do not hide my nose in books or my wife’s bosom when my people need me.

<p class="MsoNoSpacing">Today, people of Lovia, we do not lose a King, we gain one. For we cannot miss him how is never there, nor can we lose that which we never had for the last two years. Dimitri gains a private life, and the ability to live out the rest of his days as a private citizen. He can now focus on his studies, his work and Elizabeth, his wife, who I know is the love of his life. Away from the terrible job, that dreadful task to lead a nation, he can finally raise the family he’s been dreaming of, and retreat into the unknown as Prince Dimitri. And I wish him the best of luck on doing so. This man was never supposed to be a King, he never really became one either. Still we will miss him and remember the things he has done for us. Five years he has ruled us, five long years it have been. We owe him our deepest gratitude. But now a new day is here, a new era has arrived.

<p class="MsoNoSpacing">Lovia’s a democracy, Lovia’s the land of the free. Lovia is a country for you and for me. Lovia is, too, a monarchy. But you cannot be a monarchy without a King. So from this day forward, let it be known... Lovia is Lovia again, the way Lovia is supposed to be. A monarchy not in name only, but in the fullest meaning and sense of the word. God Bless Lovia, and may His light shine down upon us all, for we Lovians are truly born under lucky stars and good things shall come to us!

<p class="MsoNoSpacing">:King Sebastian I of Lovia (talk) 12:55, August 30, 2013 (UTC)

<p class="MsoNoSpacing">It's nice to have a king finally make a speech in Lovia after Dimitri didn't give us a Christmas Speech, which many people in Lovia were disappointed about, however it seems that with a reasonably long speech, you have made up for that, and it is also understandable why Dimitri didn't make a Christmas Speech.

<p class="MsoNoSpacing">There was alot of smack talk about Dimitri in there, but it's nice to see we have a king that finally takes the time to make some speeches. Thanks for making this speech, I'm sure lovians will be very happy to finally have a king who makes speeches. <font color="Teal"> Happy65  <font color="Aqua"> Talk CNP   13:11, August 30, 2013 (UTC)

Nice speech! That's all I can say now :P 4kant,6FRÅGOR??? 14:06, August 30, 2013 (UTC)

I am perfectly okay with this... but I want to make a request: Could you retake your photos, but this time with no neckbeard? —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 15:38, August 30, 2013 (UTC)

Btw, it looks like we still need four more votes in the Second Chamber for the referendum to be ratified. :s —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 15:47, August 30, 2013 (UTC)


 * @TimeMaster: Dimitri abdicates, he told Yuri he sees no reason to be king anymore with so little investment on his part, with no time and motivation. He abdicates and thus, with our monarch's agreement and the nation's majority on our side, Oos and I have taken the liberty of replacing Dimitri with his cousin. If you see the Main Page you will see these changes have by now been officially implemented. As for my facial hair, haters gonna hate. This King's scruffy whether you like it or not. Babyface Belgian nerd out, handsome stubbly outdoorsman in! King Sebastian I of Lovia (talk) 16:06, August 30, 2013 (UTC)
 * If we wanted facial hair, we could just have gone for Alexander. :P --Semyon 17:40, August 30, 2013 (UTC)
 * @TM: :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 17:15, August 30, 2013 (UTC)

Referendum
I was thinking about all the recent events, and I thought it might be a good idea to make the monarchy/republic referendum IC and the Sebastian/Dimitri referendum OOC. So the IC storyline would be: Dimitri abdicates, and Congress decides that given a significant republican sentiment in the nation, it would be a good idea to hold a referendum on the continuation of the monarchy before crowning a new king. The referendum is rejected by a large margin - as it was OOC - and as Alexander has requested to be removed from the LoS, Sebastian is crowned immediately. I think this is a nice explanation, but any thoughts? --Semyon 16:54, August 30, 2013 (UTC)
 * --O u WTBsjrief-mich 17:16, August 30, 2013 (UTC)
 * 4kant,6FRÅGOR??? 17:18, August 30, 2013 (UTC)
 * King Sebastian I of Lovia (talk) 17:27, August 30, 2013 (UTC)