Forum:The Pub

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nl:Forum:De kroegro:RoWikicity:Cafenea Welcome to The Pub! This is the general meeting place in Lovia. Inhabitants can make public announcements, have a friendly chat with some copatriots, or discuss crucial issues in Lovian politics or business. Speeches can also be made at Speakers' Corner. All archives of The Pub can be found here.

What's up?
The entire elections the newspapers are very active. Now they're over, there ain't no more news to tell anymore? A new PM, a new Government, major discussions on Gun Laws, new editors. And the media remains silent. Is the writing staff on strike or something? Ygo &quot;the Brigade&quot; Donia (Lovian PM) 18:04, January 31, 2011 (UTC)
 * Nothing interesting to write about. :P New government. Pffft! --Semyon 18:21, January 31, 2011 (UTC)
 * Nothing interesting? These are exciting times for Lovia that should be documented. Even the fact feed does not show any more facts. :::Maybe print media is dying in Lovia, and TV or radio might take its place. HORTON11  18:50, January 31, 2011 (UTC)
 * Frankly it isn't newsworthy, they're not well known yet and nothing major has occured, the gun convo has already been reported on and done. Marcus Villanova Music is Life.Lean Forward.PCP 21:23, January 31, 2011 (UTC)
 * I just don't have the time for Lovia at the moment. It seems unimportant to me right now. Edward Hannis  [[File:CogHammer.gif]] 02:10, February 1, 2011 (UTC)
 * Time is the problem of a lot of people. Other occupations (like studying) are given precedence. 06:29, February 1, 2011 (UTC)

LSCA Major Soccer League 2011 12 Teams
These are the final 12 best teams to play in the 2011 season. The second division will include six teams and will be announced next month. Here are the 12 teams: So that's that! Marcus Villanova Music is Life.Lean Forward.PCP 17:03, February 2, 2011 (UTC)

3 things: LTV already airs some mathches but We'd love all games to be watched. Sure! Marcus Villanova Music is Life.Lean Forward.PCP 17:04, February 2, 2011 (UTC)
 * 1) There's only 8 teams
 * 2) Can FC Caltrava participate
 * 3) Could ATV broadcast the matches
 * 4) HORTON11  16:59, February 2, 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks for adding my team. I was thinking, you might need some tournament sponsors, so maybe Edison Electric could be one of them. HORTON11  17:07, February 2, 2011 (UTC)
 * Guys, couldn't we cut down on the number of teams? Take FC Muntegu for example: it's not even Lovian. We've got too many pro teams for such a small nation, and most of them are not up to date or not even wikified. What about keeping ten teams, and no more than two per city? That would make it a whole lot livelier. We've got to get people involved in the game, and we can do that by making it attractive. Too many obscure teams is not attractive. 18:33, February 2, 2011 (UTC)
 * 10 seems pretty reasonable. Teams like Muntegu should not be participating, and not even one of their players is Lovian. HORTON11  18:55, February 2, 2011 (UTC)

Sure Agreed! You can delete the following pages: East Hills Kangaroos, FC Molenbeek, and FC Muntegu the others are fine. We'll work somthing out. Marcus Villanova Music is Life.Lean Forward.PCP 20:11, February 2, 2011 (UTC)
 * I deleted them as requested. And oh, go go rockets!  06:23, February 3, 2011 (UTC)
 * I'm with the Walker Cavaliers though  07:51, February 3, 2011 (UTC)

Dry Period
Wikination is very unactive latley, which i can understand Dimi and Yuri have work, which they annouced and my laptop was literally infected with 421 virsues =[ which kept me out of the game the past week. Just pointing this out but i'm quite disappointed with the slowness of the trial. I hope to see all soon. Marcus Villanova Music is Life.Lean Forward.PCP 20:08, February 27, 2011 (UTC)
 * I, too, am disappointed. The site has not been this unactive in months... However there is nothing I can do to make the trial procceed any faster. And what good is it propose new laws if there ain't nobody around to vote for them? Hopefully things will turn around for the better. But in all honesty, I can't really say I've been spending much time online lately. Not at all. Ygo &quot;the Brigade&quot; Donia (Lovian PM) 21:20, February 27, 2011 (UTC)
 * I've been really busy here in Brasil (note the use of the "s"), but hopefully next week I can be around more often. HORTON11  23:53, February 27, 2011 (UTC)

Oh I forgot there's a pardon for you too, Horton ust relax! =] Marcus Villanova Music is Life.Lean Forward.PCP 02:26, February 28, 2011 (UTC)
 * Well, February usually isn't the most active month :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 05:45, February 28, 2011 (UTC)
 * Contributing in a meaningful way takes time, a very valuable good to us all it seems. I'm confident editing will take off again once some of us have found their new rhythm or enter a holiday period. 06:31, February 28, 2011 (UTC)
 * :) --O u WTBsjrief-mich 15:50, February 28, 2011 (UTC)

Magnus
I am afraid that the user Magnus last night admitted at IRC that he is the person behind Drabo13. We blocked magnus for this reason on Llamada, what you do with this message is up to you, if you guys like evidence we have some but we do advise to send someone that talks dutch. Jillids 17:48, March 1, 2011 (UTC)
 * Well, an IRC discussion can't be evidence, because it's very easy to fake it. What we'd like more is a confession made by the user account of Magnus on a wiki. That's evidence. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 06:10, March 2, 2011 (UTC)
 * He also made a nazi account yester-yesterday on llamada. I have a mail from magnus saying he is DRabo 62.195.163.100 06:22, March 2, 2011 (UTC)
 * I think it is fair to say we can not act on ourselves considering the lack of 'strong evidence'. But I do believe this information should be passed on to the central wikia administration. Also, I'd like Pierius to clarify what this is all about. 06:31, March 2, 2011 (UTC)
 * First of all: yes, I have been on the IRC of Llamada. And yes, I did have a conversation with Jillis. However the content of this conversation – which is private – has absolutely nothing to do with what he claims: not once did any of us mention Drabo nor wikination. Of course, information can be easily forged, especially IRC conversations, as OWTB already pointed out. Whatever evidence any of these people may come up with is therefore already tainted. There has never been any confession whatsoever, especially not on any wiki (or wikia, for that matter). All claims made are based on sources outside of these wikis I have been a member of. If any of you want to pass on this information to the central wikia administration then by all means, do so. I couldn’t care less. Ygo &quot;the Brigade&quot; Donia (Lovian PM) 09:10, March 2, 2011 (UTC)
 * I'm glad you took this serious by making a statement and, as I expected, you denied any involvement. Truthfully or not is only for you to know. I join in your view on the mentioned possible evidence, which I feel should be handed over to the central wikia just for the record of it. 10:58, March 2, 2011 (UTC)
 * Reaction deleted @Jillids: Don't Feed The Trolls. Apoo banaan 15:16, March 2, 2011 (UTC)
 * Mevedev since you know dutch we can show you a screen print from pierlot. I am afraid we don't have more evidence and don't feel like go discuss with magnus so he has more attention. Jillids 17:52, March 2, 2011 (UTC)
 * I'm not even going to dignify this with a response. Ygo &quot;the Brigade&quot; Donia (Lovian PM) 18:22, March 2, 2011 (UTC)
 * One of two things the statements made by you all should prove my innocence when it came to the false accusation that I exchanged votes in some way. Second there really should be some proof, alot of people have accused him of this and nothing has came of it. Also I thought Pierlot was banned for being drabo. He was banned for a year. Marcus Villanova Music is Life.Lean Forward.PCP 20:38, March 2, 2011 (UTC)
 * No, Pierlot was banned for: Abusing multiple accounts; vandalism and other unproductive wiki drama. (as in the logs). When Pierlot was banned, Magnus had an open goal to say: He is Drabo! It's well-known for ages that Magnus and Pierlot aren't friends. Apoo banaan 10:17, March 3, 2011 (UTC)
 * I received the print screen and it looks authentic. But then again I can provide similar proof that makes Dimi say he is the queen of England. Bottom line: suspicion noted, no action possible. 06:41, March 3, 2011 (UTC)
 * You know that e-mails got 'headers' right? And that 'headers' contain IP-adresses. Bottom line: Suspicion confirmed, action possible. Apoo banaan 10:09, March 3, 2011 (UTC)
 * Under the condition that headers can't be tempered with, you are right. 15:03, March 3, 2011 (UTC)
 * Headers of e-mails? They can be falsified very easily :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 15:28, March 3, 2011 (UTC)
 * Then everything in this world is falsified, including you. So start deblocking everybody, since nothing can be proven. By the way: Authorities accept e-mail headers as evidence, so it would be strange if wikia would not. Apoo banaan 15:37, March 3, 2011 (UTC)
 * I've only blocked people because they vandalised a wiki (proof which can't be falsified) or because of revenge (and they are unblocked already). --O u WTBsjrief-mich 05:55, March 4, 2011 (UTC)


 * Can you post the email or somthing here? I wanna see it, I remember when i was falsly accused of somthing they posted somthing from IRC with half the convo deleted and then said at the bottom that I went to Gay Rights rally, which made no sense. So if you could in your consince post a uneditied version if you can, but I do people you didn't edit it. Marcus Villanova Music is Life.Lean Forward.PCP 20:22, March 3, 2011 (UTC)
 * Assuming that whatever it is they photoshopped as "evidence" is is written in Dutch (Llamada being a Dutch website) I doubt you'll understand. But please by all means: share it with the community! Ygo &quot;the Brigade&quot; Donia (Lovian PM) 23:25, March 3, 2011 (UTC)

Well, this leads to nowhere, so this is my last reaction here (I'm obvious feeding the trolls again). But you have to know that headers of email's cant be falisfied. Because hotmail gives every message a unique 'X-Message-Info' and a unique 'Message-ID'. And there is no way to falsify that, unless pierlot works at hotmail (but I don't think so... and even then it would be nearly impossible). I'm sure that if you request the email according to this ID the mail of magnus will pop-up. I'll keep contact with Wikia staff and people with common sense, and we'll see what happens. (By the way: You've done wel on en-wikipedia magnus :)   ) Apoo banaan 10:31, March 4, 2011 (UTC)
 * Well, to be honest, I just falsified a header to find out and it perfectly works :P OR perhaps you mean something else, but I don't clearly understand what you mean with headers of e-mails. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 11:41, March 4, 2011 (UTC)

I must say good gathering Apoo, I must say that is somthing it shows intent and a pattern for abusing people and accounts. Marcus Villanova Music is Life.Lean Forward.PCP 12:28, March 4, 2011 (UTC)
 * Well Marcus, all he has managed to gather is stuff that we already knew of. He did not come up with any new information. The Mrlob account for example has been blocked since 2007 and hasn't been used since. Then that block log clearly shows the last block was in early 2009. I never denied my past as a wikipedia vandal. However I fail to see the relevance in this case. It's old news, basically. Been there, done that. Lame, *sigh*... Ygo &quot;the Brigade&quot; Donia (Lovian PM) 13:28, March 4, 2011 (UTC)
 * @apoo "X-Message-Delivery: Vj0xLjE7dXM9MDtsPTA7YT0xO0Q9MTtTQ0w9MA==", do you mean that with header? It's very annoying that we don't have more evidence. I heard magnus him self saying that he is Drabo so it wasn't a hard desision to block him. Jillids 17:41, March 4, 2011 (UTC)

There's alot of small evidence that is building up but not enough, One other question would be why would he confess to all of the people at Llamada but not here, Only thing i can guess is that he loves us more Marcus Villanova Music is Life.Lean Forward.PCP 21:07, March 4, 2011 (UTC)
 * Maybe he din't get what he wanted on Llamada but does'nt want to lose his position here. But he probebly wants attention. Jillids 11:46, March 5, 2011 (UTC)

Well until more evidence pops up i'll believe it. Marcus Villanova Music is Life.Lean Forward.PCP 14:21, March 5, 2011 (UTC)

Supreme Court Judge
I had three men in mind who could replace Mr. Jefferson as our new Supreme Court Judge - Aesopos, Semyon and Bucu. I decided that of all these three excellent men, the most neutral politically speaking is probably Aesopos (Mr. Washington), and also the most expierenced.

I therefore advice all MOTC's to go and visit our Second Chamber a visit and vote either in favour or against this proposal.

With this, I must leave you. I am sad to inform y'all that due to unfortunate circumstances I found myself entangled in a case, a case which I lost and for which I will be severely punished. I have to accept that loss, and take it as a man. With these words, I bid you farewell!

Good luck, and take care, everyone! May Lovia florish without me as it did with me, Ygo &quot;the Brigade&quot; Donia (Lovian PM) 16:07, March 16, 2011 (UTC)

A sad day in history
This is a sad day in history. It is the day that democracy died, and all of our endeavours. Political views triumphed of justice, and party links defeated fairness and equality. In the Galahad v. The Brigade Trial, the flaws of our justice system were exposed, and the political alliances of our judge have been exposed. I implore to all Lovians to help prevnt this unjust and unwarranted sentence from being handed out, in the name of Justice, and of Democracy, in order to ensure peace, order and unity within our nation. HORTON11 16:48, March 16, 2011 (UTC)
 * Our justice system needs some redesigning, nonetheless your statement is itself colored. As court has confirmed, the Law has been violated. You can discuss the measure of the sentence, but you can't deny the nature of the Brigade: created to flatter ego's and kept alive despite a law to bring it down - kept alive with blind confidence. 06:36, March 17, 2011 (UTC)
 * Well, it's all over now. The Brigade is no more, and neither am I. At some point during the trial I actually thought I could get away with this, or at least, reduce the sentence to a minimum of two weeks, which would have been reasonable. Sweet dreams, I lost the damn thing! Well, to bad. It's all over now. But bear this in mind: I regret nothing. Ygo &quot;the Brigade&quot; Donia (Lovian PM) 09:25, March 17, 2011 (UTC
 * I did not give my speech in support of the Brigade. It is just that the sentence handed out is unjust and unreflective of the crime committed. The Brigade members heve broken a law, but they did not harm, steall, kill or otherwised do something towards a person to violate their rights. HORTON11  11:36, March 17, 2011 (UTC)
 * The sentence is a harsh one indeed, in every way draconic. The problem remains however that the decision can not legally be overruled. A settlement would have been thinkable, were it not that Donia himself is the Secretary of Justice - the key figure I would build the compromise around. I urge you all to leave as much drama behind as possible; we must look through our legislation and see if there is any chance at a reduction of those six months. 13:14, March 17, 2011 (UTC)
 * Well Mr Jefferson has violated Section 12.2 of Article 9, whrerby any sentence "must be in proportion to the violation". I don't know if that is of any use. HORTON11  14:00, March 17, 2011 (UTC)
 * Well, according to Jefferson a group of licensed hunters parading around my private property are a "threat to national security". Sounds pretty menacing, doesn't it? More then dangerous and severe enough, I'd say. At least in his mind. Ygo &quot;the Brigade&quot; Donia (Lovian PM) 14:56, March 17, 2011 (UTC)
 * It seems he is overstating things. The Brigade is not a threat to national security, and they did not plan to disrupt Lovia's integrity. It may not be menacing, but it is not entirely truthful. HORTON11  15:29, March 17, 2011 (UTC)

Yes, the brigade was not legal according to the law, but sentencing someone for six months for this? Guys.. Where has our common sense gone? --O u WTBsjrief-mich 18:26, March 17, 2011 (UTC)

Yes, any sane person would see that a 6 month sentence it unreasonable. And anyways, the Brigade did not disrupt Lovia's integrity as to merit such a sentence. HORTON11 18:39, March 17, 2011 (UTC)
 * I think we all got the point by now, just consider doing something about it. In other words: undertake action or accept the punishment. 06:36, March 18, 2011 (UTC)

Don't lay dow and die. Fight back. Marcus Villanova Music is Life.Lean Forward.PCP 21:42, March 18, 2011 (UTC)

Stop, it's the Police!

 * 1) The Federal Police is hiring:
 * 2) *FP Bureau Chief of Clymene, Kings, Oceana, Seven and Sylvania
 * 3) *FP Sergeant
 * 4) *FP Officers

--Cristian Latin 15:26, March 23, 2011 (UTC)
 * Applicants, please contact Cristian Latin 
 * Applicants, please contact Cristian Latin 
 * Just on time to arrest me. Ygo &quot;the Brigade&quot; Donia (Lovian PM) 15:40, March 23, 2011 (UTC)
 * PS: Thought you were gone. ;) Ygo &quot;the Brigade&quot; Donia (Lovian PM) 15:40, March 23, 2011 (UTC)
 * Sort of :P --Cristian Latin 15:41, March 23, 2011 (UTC)
 * Lol, I'll soon be gone for a much longer period of time (if not forever) but the Judge
 * doesn't seem to be in a hurry when it comes to carrying out the verdict. Ygo &quot;the Brigade&quot; Donia (Lovian PM) 15:46, March 23, 2011 (UTC)
 * Yeah I know. But don't think you'll get blocked for such a long period. Cristian Latin 15:54, March 23, 2011 (UTC)
 * It sure seems that way. Nobody on here beliefs it to be reasonable but fuck it, it's the law so it doesn't matter what the majority feels. Ygo &quot;the Brigade&quot; Donia (Lovian PM) 15:57, March 23, 2011 (UTC)
 * Well, if the majority is against it, then maybe we can amend the law? HORTON11  16:13, March 23, 2011 (UTC)
 * You could - but the trial still stands. While the verdict is not in any proportion to the "crime" committed, which is against the law, I do not know whether or not Jefferson could be punished for it or his decision overturned. Ygo &quot;the Brigade&quot; Donia (Lovian PM) 16:18, March 23, 2011 (UTC)
 * As he broke the law and went agains the constitution, he should be tried. HORTON11  16:24, March 23, 2011 (UTC)
 * Well then, you have reasonable grounds for doing so. Of course Jefferson must first be replaced by Washington for obvious reasons (Jefferson cannot lead his own trial and when he is the accused party). Ygo &quot;the Brigade&quot; Donia (Lovian PM) 16:29, March 23, 2011 (UTC)
 * Well, if we bing him to court now, someone will have to replace him for the duration of the trial. HORTON11  16:34, March 23, 2011 (UTC)
 * Sounds like a fine possibility. Washington comes to mind. Or maybe even our Federal Police Commissioner, Latin. Ygo &quot;the Brigade&quot; Donia (Lovian PM) 16:38, March 23, 2011 (UTC)
 * Washington would be the best choice, but he's not around too often. Latin is also a fine choice, but people may question his former links with the CCPL. HORTON11  16:41, March 23, 2011 (UTC)
 * People may question all the want but I say he's a fine candidate. Then there is also Semyon Eykidovich, completely a-political, low-profile and reliable. Ygo &quot;the Brigade&quot; Donia (Lovian PM) 16:45, March 23, 2011 (UTC)
 * Any one of them is fine. But if we amended the law, we could have 2 or 3 judges serving on the bench. HORTON11  16:49, March 23, 2011 (UTC)
 * Yes indeed, we definitely need a jury. Especially because none of us has got the education for being Judge. Cristian Latin 16:52, March 23, 2011 (UTC)
 * Maybe we should organize a vote, or put an advertising in one of the newspapers. Oh, silly me again, never really getting the pointe. Aesopos 17:55, March 23, 2011 (UTC)
 * Aesopos: do as you please, sounds like a plan! Ygo &quot;the Brigade&quot; Donia (Lovian PM) 17:56, March 23, 2011 (UTC)
 * We could also start a Judicial Refom campaign and introduce bills in congress, to make it official. HORTON11  17:59, March 23, 2011 (UTC)
 * Great! It is really necessary, so don't hesitate! Cristian Latin 18:02, March 23, 2011 (UTC)

Number of judges
I don't think that the law says that there can only be one Supreme Court Judge. It only mentions that a Supreme Court Judge leads the Supreme Court. However, as I just wrote, it does not explicitly say that there can only be one.

Well, anyone can become a Judge when a proposal of the Secretary has been approved by a normal majority in Congress.

I repeat: it is necessary to have more Judges in Lovia. It is all about neutrality. Eg. Abrahams and I cannot start our cases because Jefferson himself is involved (up to a certain level). Arthur Jefferson being an admin, a Judge (not theoretically nor legally, but practically he is above the law - if arrested by an admin (he is an admin himself), he can be tried "correctly according to Constitution" by himself because he is the only Judge around) and a Member of the Congress. Something has to happen.

So please, Lovian MOTCs, the least you could do is voting for Lars Washington in the Second Chamber. For the sake of Justice. Cristian Latin 18:26, March 23, 2011 (UTC)
 * I am Ygo August Donia and I approve this message. Ygo &quot;the Brigade&quot; Donia (Lovian PM) 18:30, March 23, 2011 (UTC)
 * I too support this. HORTON11  18:32, March 23, 2011 (UTC)
 * "1.The Supreme Court is an independent institution and the nation's only and supreme judicial organ, led by a Supreme Court Judge." Cristian Latin 18:33, March 23, 2011 (UTC)

It even says on Supreme Court. "A second SC Judge will be appointed in the near future". It's clear now. Cristian Latin 18:46, March 23, 2011 (UTC)
 * Then two it is. Jefferson has just been removed from Office. Being both the Prime Minister and the Secretary of Justice, I have the authority to do so. He is hereby permanently dismissed. Ygo &quot;the Brigade&quot; Donia (Lovian PM) 18:53, March 23, 2011 (UTC)

Yes but it would have to be a set number maybe 3? They can't be in congress or in a political party(just be secretly in it ). And if they wangted an appeal they would go to the head lead judge of the three and have a new trial. And to not toot my own horn but i would love a life in law.


 * The thing is you are too politically associated (with the PCP) and you might not be too impartial. I think you'd have a better chance at becoming a judge if you quit congress and the PCP and remained outsde of politics. HORTON11  01:17, March 24, 2011 (UTC)

Limit to judges (read the *** Consitution)
The Constitution does pose a limit:  The Supreme Court Judge must maintain his or her duty until another is appointed and confirmed; only then is his or her service terminated.

Singular you see, it speaks about one judge which stops when he/she is replaced - and only then. This actions also requires a Congressional majority as I pointed out to our PM on several other pages. Please read the Constitution before talking. 07:26, March 24, 2011 (UTC)
 * I got my information for the page on Judges, actually. Someone was kind enough (or silly enough) to show me. It read that the Secretary of Justice or the Prime Minister of Lovia has the right to dismiss a Judge. So I exersised that right and did what I believed to be just. Ygo &quot;the Brigade&quot; Donia (Lovian PM) 09:11, March 24, 2011 (UTC)
 * So now we don't check the Constitution anymore? It is true the Sec. of Justice and the PM together decide upon this matter, but only with Congressional majority. The page was correct but incomplete. I can understand why you made the mistake but it is a mistake. If you want to replace Jefferson, please file a request in Congress. Until such a proposal is approved he remains our Supreme Court Judge. 15:55, March 24, 2011 (UTC)
 * I have already filed such a request in Congress - it is currently in the Second Chamber and being voted upon by the Members of Congress. In it is clearly mentioned I am to replace Jefferson and appoint Washington in his place. You know that, and you've seen it too. In fact, you've even voted on the proposal (against it, no less ). If it passes with a majority of 50% (which I suspect it will) then Jefferson will be replaced. I agree with you that until then, he remains the Supreme Court Judge. I'll have to agree, as I now know I have no other choice. Ygo &quot;the Brigade&quot; Donia (Lovian PM) 18:32, March 24, 2011 (UTC)

Yes, Ygo was wrong. And yes 'we' don't read the Constitution anymore (it isn't supreme, what did you say, Yuri? & too many people locked up without a trial... oh that was what you meant, right?) and yes there can be more Judges: " A Supreme Court Judge leads Supreme Court. Not The ." It implies that there can be more. Actually it is completely retarded to maintain this situation in which only one person has a monopoly on jurisdiction. Especially because there are issues in which AJ himself is being involved. Cristian Latin 20:06, March 24, 2011 (UTC)


 * @Cristian- We should propose a motion in congress to increase the number of judges. Then it will be possible to have new/other judges without issues. HORTON11  20:14, March 24, 2011 (UTC)
 * You could do so, for an explicit description in law, however I don't think there really is an issue (because there can be more judges ) and besides it is not very likely that we will find a +66% majority in these times of inactivity... Cristian Latin 20:25, March 24, 2011 (UTC)
 * It easy. If only 3 people vote and two say pro, that's 66%. And anyways, many Lovians support reform. HORTON11  20:41, March 24, 2011 (UTC)
 * Horton, I wish it were that easy. When you want to amend the constitution, 66% of the entire congress is needed to get something trough. Not 66% of the voters. And as Mr. Latin already pointed out, there is no need for it as the Law does not state there can be but one Supreme Court Judge. Ygo &quot;the Brigade&quot; Donia (Lovian PM) 20:48, March 24, 2011 (UTC)
 * @Latin: it is your lack of knowledge on judicial matters that causes such a mixed-up view. If I had the time for it I'd always explain every word I say, not that anyone would read it. I explained the contradiction you think to see elsewhere. 18:00, March 25, 2011 (UTC)

Letter of protest
Bucurestean and Donia have been blocked by Jefferson for respectively two weeks and six months. All I can say is: please stay calm. I know it is lame but I can't think of a better advice. Also, especially Donia's punishment is according to many (including me) draconic. Out of solidarity I suggest those who want it sign this letter of protest:

''I do not agree with the heavy punishment issued upon Donia for his involvement in the Brigade. I support a reduction of the term to at most two weeks. If no consequence is given to massive support to this letter of protest, I am willing to contribute to other non-aggressive actions like the abstinence from editing for a while.''


 * 11:26, March 27, 2011 (UTC)
 * HORTON11 11:48, March 27, 2011 (UTC)
 * (Ooooo just like a crazy witch hunt) Marcus Villanova Music is Life.Lean Forward 12:16, March 27, 2011 (UTC)
 * --O u WTBsjrief-mich 06:35, March 29, 2011 (UTC)
 * --Semyon 15:48, March 30, 2011 (UTC)

You make me smile Nobody has been blocked,this is all a joke. Aesopos 11:59, March 27, 2011 (UTC)
 * The logbook disagrees with you. 06:53, March 28, 2011 (UTC)
 * But another moderator can change that right?Marcus Villanova Music is Life.Lean Forward 10:38, March 28, 2011 (UTC)
 * If you're hinting towards me I'd like to say I'm not interested in sparking of a blocking war. How much I may oppose the block, it would be plain wrong to undo it on my own. That is what the letter is for: to convince other moderators to reconsider. 10:46, March 28, 2011 (UTC)

Well hopefully jefferson will reconsider we need Ygo back for some insane comments Marcus Villanova Music is Life.Lean Forward 11:23, March 28, 2011 (UTC)
 * Although the sentence is rather severe, we should respect our country's independent judicial. Politicians interfering with how the court sentences breaches of the law seems wrong to me. A bit of civil action, on the other hand, sure, why not. 13:46, March 28, 2011 (UTC)
 * Two things:
 * 1. It seems that the judicial is not wholly independent, as Mr Jefferson has unofficial links to the LAP party
 * 2. Politicians (and people in general) must have the right to change judicial decisions if they are unjustified and illegal. HORTON11
 * Just one word: Justice . Now I'm out of here, mission accomplished. Apoo banaan 22:42, March 28, 2011 (UTC)
 * Well, the problem with the separation of powers. The powers should still be able to check each other and in Lovia this is currently not the case with the judicial power. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 06:35, March 29, 2011 (UTC)
 * I find it suspicious that six months was exactly the time AE and Dimi wanted to block Pierius for his sockpuppetry. A controversial thing to say, I know, but there you go. (Random note: the Europhiles among you will be pleased to hear that on the UK census yesterday I described my national identity as 'European' ) --Semyon 15:48, March 30, 2011 (UTC)
 * It would only be controversial if you implied something by it, but I assume it was just 'pointing out a fact'. About the census: very happy indeed, considering the UK is traditionally quite eurosceptic. Let us know the results if you have them.  06:07, March 31, 2011 (UTC)
 * Well, I'm not a great fan of the EU itself (especially when it seems unique national culture is being submerged) but on the other hand I realised I share quite a lot in common with my friends across the Channel. (The results, btw, may not be out for a long time) --Semyon 15:27, March 31, 2011 (UTC)
 * Well, I'm not a great fan of the EU itself (especially when it seems unique national culture is being submerged) but on the other hand I realised I share quite a lot in common with my friends across the Channel. (The results, btw, may not be out for a long time) --Semyon 15:27, March 31, 2011 (UTC)

Dead Air
Is this wikia dead? Seriously? should we start a new wikia (I had one planned) or should we start a new wiki like the original model set up by Dimi, make a new wiki about a city in a real country, with more shop orintated with a dose of politics passing a budget and making laws and building parks. A small eight member city council, with a Mayor and Vice Mayor. Just wondering. Marcus/Michael Villanova 22:32, April 22, 2011 (UTC)
 * We could also make one like a city-state, somewhat like Monaco or Singapore. HORTON11  02:10, April 23, 2011 (UTC)
 * Actually this results in less activity. One of the reasons that many wikis eventually die is that people think that a new concept will attract more people and will result in more activity. Unfortunately, new wikis result in people being spread all over, so less people per wiki, so less activity. And a wiki with only a few active members is more likely to die out than a wiki with more active members. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 05:21, April 23, 2011 (UTC)

Fine but it seems like lovely lovia is very unlovely at the moment. I hope it gets re-active. Marcus/Michael Villanova 13:49, April 23, 2011 (UTC)


 * If we had a big-enough event or scandal, we could get more people to be active. HORTON11  15:14, April 23, 2011 (UTC)


 * :::What if a revolution takes place? A young idealistic leader takes charge and eliminates the former elite, replaces the entire government, imprisons the despots that have ruled the nation for ages. Crushes the opposition entirely. Fakking Held 18:18, April 23, 2011 (UTC)

no i love monarchies expensive royal weddings, will anyone be attending the only in britian. also welcome to lovia. Marcus/Michael Villanova 21:49, April 23, 2011 (UTC)

I like Kakkings Helds idea, seeing as we have no Military and a weak police, who would stop them? I'd really like for elections to be held. -Sunkist- 01:18, April 24, 2011 (UTC)


 * Well, there is the White Sands Casino Resort robbery which recently took place. That's a pretty major occurance. HORTON11  02:59, April 24, 2011 (UTC)


 * ::I honestly doubt anyone will organize new elections because of some casino getting robbed. Not major enough. Fakking Held 07:25, April 24, 2011 (UTC)

I see you really studied up on Lovia's practices. But it's fine if look back further many unactive yeaars we've just didn't do anything major. It's fine. Marcus/Michael Villanova 17:15, April 24, 2011 (UTC)

I hereby declare myself, Carlos Maria Lily Rosebud as the dictator of Lovia

No it has to be democratic, ha, kinda reminds me of drabo. Marcus/Michael Villanova 20:18, April 24, 2011 (UTC)
 * Perhaps it is time to move on... a new generation may arrive, and perhaps only they could pull Wikination out of this lonely wiki. A RMACHEDES  02:06, April 25, 2011 (UTC)
 * I say we begin a new era- not wait for one. Even with are old Congress, some of them weren't even active with the Government, this needs to change. We have no Government currently, no one is passing the law- providing the budget. The King is off some where due to studying and I'm not sure if he'll be back soon until summer, Spring Elections should be taken RIGHT NOW at this very moment. I say we start some activity by this week and start elections, or sweep the entire Government off the sheet unless all of the Congress members sign in by Friday of April 29, and in the mean time we should begin the process of getting campaigning started. Its time we get a new face in Lovia politics. Zackatron 07:00, April 25, 2011 (UTC)
 * We also need to demand the release of our Prime Minister, which we should of planned this too, we don't have a line of command. Who is our leader, our elected leader?Zackatron 07:25, April 25, 2011 (UTC)

Guys, I'm familiar with situations like these. Six users, of which one is only a day old (no citizen!!), can bearly keep a wiki like this alive, especially when hardly any of them is doing anything. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 07:38, April 25, 2011 (UTC)

We may not be able to allow to sail, but we can try and scoop out the water as fast as we can to try and stay afloat. I'll try to get more active in the wiki, he's new and we need more new people. Zackatron 07:44, April 25, 2011 (UTC)

We do need to change the government. Out of all the congressmen, only me Marcus and Oos have bee nactive. HORTON11 13:47, April 25, 2011 (UTC)

Does anyone want to message dimi about this? Maybe it's time for a small congress with new elections, basically new elections with a Prime Minister and Vice Primer. Abolishment of the monarchy anyone? Marcus/Michael Villanova 15:25, April 25, 2011 (UTC)

I like monarchies, but Lovia's is too small and not very around. We have a new one or we could get rid of the current one. HORTON11 22:48, April 25, 2011 (UTC)

If some one could talk to him, that would be good. Zackatron 01:10, April 26, 2011 (UTC)

Alright, we should start getting the Police re-organized, seeing that lootering and riots would begin to happen, as funding would be shut down and laws woulden't be passed. We need to set a curfew, get a provisional government up and then try and get a elected government in. Zackatron 07:25, April 26, 2011 (UTC)


 * Lovia is in dire need for leadership. I can think of one man who could take charge, a strong, magnificant leader. However, this decent, God-fearing Christian has been imprisoned by the capitalist, atheist establishment. Exiled Leader 10:27, April 26, 2011 (UTC)

Celebrate (inter)National Solidarity

 * A most happy May Day to all of you! ^^ 08:20, May 1, 2011 (UTC)
 * Woot, happy May Day! Saddly, if I raise the red flag in my city I'll get harassed. Nathaniel Scribner 08:25, May 1, 2011 (UTC)
 * What city might that be?? In all major Belgian cities we have celebrations by unions and left-wing organizations. No freedom of expression and organization where you live? 08:26, May 1, 2011 (UTC)
 * No social democrats/socialists around my home, only my grandma all the way down in Kentucky has the closest ideology of mine, and shes form Paris. I live in New Albany, Indiana in which is a hot spot for Republicans and weak Democrats. Its all expression, unless you want to be called a pink-ol' commie, no organizations. Nathaniel Scribner 08:34, May 1, 2011 (UTC)
 * Sounds like one of these grand old Southern state. Boy do I love that Southern Mentality. The Master&#39;s Voice 08:36, May 1, 2011 (UTC)
 * If you like narrow-minded tight asses with absolutely no attention for nuance then the South is where to go... 08:38, May 1, 2011 (UTC)
 * I just wish I could live in a rual area, but very left..but sadly thats never going to happen in the US. Nathaniel Scribner 08:43, May 1, 2011 (UTC)
 * @Medvedev: That's one way to describe it. I would rather descibe them as hard-working, God-fearing people with a healthy sense of conservative viewpoints who hold on to their constitutional rights. The Charlton Heston's of today's declining society. The Master&#39;s Voice 08:45, May 1, 2011 (UTC)
 * Constitutional rights? The US Constitution was written by the most progressive people of that time. Atheists wrote the freakin' document! Where is this sense of modernity gone to nowadays? 08:50, May 1, 2011 (UTC)
 * I love God, I don't 'fear' him. More a sense of healthy greed. Nathaniel Scribner 08:52, May 1, 2011 (UTC)
 * You are right, Medvedev. The slave-owners who wrote the Constitution of the US where very progressive. The Master&#39;s Voice 08:53, May 1, 2011 (UTC)
 * They were the most progressive of their time, just like you can find a 'most leftist Nazi' too. I never claimed they were progressive enough for my taste. My point was that the US elected the most progressive people in office than, while nowadays they call them names like 'soviet' or 'nazi' in many parts of the country. Now ain't that backward? 08:59, May 1, 2011 (UTC)
 * Solidarity forever, solidarity forever, solidarity. Soon to be something that Indiana and Wisconsin won't see.Nathaniel Scribner 09:08, May 1, 2011 (UTC).thumb|300px|right
 * I wonder what those conservative republicans think about the socialist Tony Blair or their other socialist-favoring NATO-partner, France. They hate Obama for what he thinks and does while what is being thought and done across the Atlantic is much more progressive. I really hope Obama gets another term 'cause I sure don't like the possible Republican candidates I know of... 09:38, May 1, 2011 (UTC)
 * Trump: Obama?
 * Obama:: Yes?
 * Trump:: You're fired!
 * Trump for president! The Master&#39;s Voice 09:42, May 1, 2011 (UTC)

I'd love to move to vertmont i have some friend who live there, in all political campaigns it's a three way race, Republican, Democrat, and Progressive. The Progressive party got elected a USA Socalist Senator, Some former members to US COngress, a few mayors, Alot of City Councilers, and 8 Seats in the Vertmont legislature. Go Vertmont progressives. Marcus/Michael Villanova 11:57, May 1, 2011 (UTC)

I wish that third parties would get elected to offices more in the USA, and also that there was no electoral college. I hate the government system here! I like the Rep. of Ireland's system. But yeah, here is Michigan, it is very close between democrats and republicans. The representative from some districts literally changes every two years. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 12:03, May 1, 2011 (UTC)

Okay so we got New York, Indiana, and Michigan! All we need is 47 more and we'll have USA in Lovia. Marcus/Michael Villanova 12:11, May 1, 2011 (UTC)

No one seems to care about my first first chamber proposal (067), the revision to the Hamlet Act. What do you guys think about it? Basically I think hamlets should be independent [from towns and cities]. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 12:16, May 1, 2011 (UTC)

Oh and just to let you know may day is May 1st. Marcus/Michael Villanova 14:09, May 1, 2011 (UTC)
 * I thought that was common knowledge? It is a pretty big issue in Europe. About the socialist from Vermont: I believe he is mentioned in Micheal Moore latest film, with an accompanying 'of course he is from the gay state of Vermont'.  14:25, May 1, 2011 (UTC)

Yeah but the poster says, (looks at it again) ohhhhh you did it the europeans way here in america it would have been 05/01/11, i get it okay!!! Yeah i've watched that movie at least 10 times, his name is Bernie Sanders, the only one of his kind in america. He recently fillabustered a bill for 18 hours (talk before a vote to change minds and stuff, to stall). Pretty impresive but it didn't beat Storm Thrumond a racist from South Carolina who fillabuster the civil rights acts for 24 and a half hours. He was so rascist that he them got elected from 1940 -1990, in either Senator or governor from or for of South Carolina. Marcus/Michael Villanova 14:32, May 1, 2011 (UTC)
 * Thurmond was no true racist; he had a black daughter with his black girlfriend as a young man. Google it. The Master&#39;s Voice 14:35, May 1, 2011 (UTC)

Whom he raped. Marcus/Michael Villanova 14:38, May 1, 2011 (UTC)
 * No he didn't - they were in a short relationship and then seperated - he did not know of his daughter until later in life and he made sure she went to college in a time it wasn't common for black women to go to college. Does not sound like a racist to me, boy. Get your facts straight. The Master&#39;s Voice 14:41, May 1, 2011 (UTC)
 * From wikipedia: "He helped pay his daughter's way through college. Though Thurmond never publicly acknowledged Washington-Williams while he was alive, he continued to support her financially. These payments extended well into her adult life.[28] Washington-Williams has stated that she did not reveal she was Thurmond's daughter during his lifetime because it "wasn't to the advantage of either one of us."[28] She kept silent out of love and respect for her father[6] and denies that there was an agreement between the two to keep her connection to Thurmond silent.[28]" The Master&#39;s Voice 14:42, May 1, 2011 (UTC)

So the fact he wanted blacks segregated isn't racist?Marcus/Michael Villanova 14:46, May 1, 2011 (UTC)
 * Not neccesarily. Black Nationalists are also in favour of segregation. And you know very well that in the politically correct USA, blacks cannot be racist no matter what they say or do. It is, apparantly, a white thing. The Master&#39;s Voice 15:12, May 1, 2011 (UTC)

Racism is racism i never said one kind was better than the other. Marcus/Michael Villanova 15:26, May 1, 2011 (UTC)
 * Well I personally do not believe there is anything wrong with segregation. As long as it is voluntary it is okay in my book. What I think is wrong is to force diversity upon people who do not wish for it, and thus increase tension and crime in return. Nothing wrong with an all-white neigborhood or an all-black school if you ask me. It's a choice people are allowed to make. The Master&#39;s Voice 15:31, May 1, 2011 (UTC)
 * But they're just people, black-white-yellow, all are red once bleed. Well this 'choice' will never happen and even though its voluntary it would still create tension, and being multi-cultural is an American base. I can't believe we have a segregationist in our Congress, what group of people in Lovia would support him..thats what I'm wondering. I'm so glad that racism is out of my school, a medium income area with no metal detectors or any gangs, I love my multi-cultural school and all my black friends and Chinease friends and all my Mexican friends and all my white freinds. I see no color, I see who you are and what you are inside you by getting to know you. Nathaniel Scribner 16:44, May 1, 2011 (UTC)
 * Others have had less pleasant experiences with multiculturalism, Mr. Scribner. You are the exception rather then the rule. Sometimes it works, sometimes it does not. However there is nothing wrong with schools or neigborhoods for one single ethnicity. It's a choice we are all free to make, just as it is your choice to live in this "multi-cultural valhalla" you describe here. The Master&#39;s Voice 17:21, May 1, 2011 (UTC)
 * We should push all our schools to become multi-cultural valhalla's, stop the hate and racism. I'm so glad I have the choice to tell my children to love all, any where, any time, for not what they look like, but by they're deeds. Nathaniel Scribner 17:29, May 1, 2011 (UTC)
 * We should not push anyone, give the choices a free choice. You cannot force your idea of the ideal society upon everyone - I say if a school wants to allow everyone, let them. If they don't, they don't. Accept that. Live and let live. I too will tell my children to love all - but also to be proud of who they are themselves and to marry within their own ethnicity. Since we live in a free society, I have that right, as do you. And I will not let anyone force multiculturalism upon me. The Master&#39;s Voice 17:34, May 1, 2011 (UTC)
 * Thats not loving at all, you sir are a man of hate and racism. Nathaniel Scribner 17:40, May 1, 2011 (UTC)
 * No sir. In fact among my best friends there are several muslims; some Kurds, an Iranian, a Palestinian and an Afghan family. I was invited to dine in their house, and had pleasant conversations with all of them. How does that make me a "man of hate and racism"? I just don't believe in the mixing of races and the mass immigration of foreigners. I am not a racist, I am a racialist. I believe in the preservation of races and culture. I believe in purity. It would be a shame if these nice people would "Westernise" and lose contact with their own culture. And it would be a shame if my people would lose contact with their own cultural and racial identity. I think these values instored in us by our ancestors are worth protecting and safeguarding. I am all for preserving not destroying. Love, not hatred, drives me. The Master&#39;s Voice 17:46, May 1, 2011 (UTC)
 * My brother in-law is a Muslim from Jordan, my sister is from the deep south, they both preserve they're cultures just fine. Telling your kids not to marry a child of different color or culture is HATE. Nathaniel Scribner 17:51, May 1, 2011 (UTC)
 * It is not - my love for my race is to big to allow my children to come home with someone from another race. But I know they will not, because that is not the way they are brought up. They are taught to be friendly towards all people; which is not the same as seeing a potential partner in everyone. If not, I fear the white race is doomed to die out, go extinct, as is currently happening with the native American Indian, of whom almost none are of pure blood anymore because the genocide committed against their people. The Master&#39;s Voice 17:58, May 1, 2011 (UTC)
 * @MV - A Rascist will always find a pretext for his rascism. Marcus/Michael Villanova 17:57, May 1, 2011 (UTC)
 * @MV: you defended race as a scientific concept, right? I totally agree there is variation within the human species, BUT it remains the same species. Advocating 'racial purity' is just one bridge too far, because it can never happen without a sociological concept of race - thus making a non-existing division on the moral level. Besides, racial purity is pure nonsense: we all have the same genetic pool, only superficial differences exist. 05:43, May 2, 2011 (UTC)
 * I was just wanting to know, is there any people that have been very successful in developing society in a left-wing political stage as with economical and technological? My history teacher sees left-wing politics the base for no more moving in to the future with nothing to peruse them to they're goals; money. Nathaniel Scribner 06:05, May 2, 2011 (UTC)
 * Frankly I find that a very poor view. It shows a lack of understanding of how rich the leftist thought is. Self-interest is always the dominant motive behind progress, even so in a socialist system. Money would be the means by which people secure their self-interest in a capitalist system. Socialists/communists (as dominant faction on the left side) claim that organizing yourself in a society - thus giving up some of your personal liberty - is in fact a way of self-preservation. A strong state can provide healthcare, education, economic stability, etc. It is a story of 'less (economic) freedom in exchange for more (economic) security'. Hope this helps? 09:32, May 2, 2011 (UTC)
 * About the innovation thing: I believe in Europe most innovative research is done on a state-sponsored basis at (semi)state-governed universities. Members of the European Union are obliged to make a certain investment in (technological) innovation - as in they have to plan it . Money isn't the only motive behind research, some people actually think the world will benefit from what they do. 09:36, May 2, 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks :D ! Nathaniel Scribner 04:26, May 3, 2011 (UTC)

Is everybody here socialist? Aged youngman 09:09, May 3, 2011 (UTC)

For Sale
The Museum of Art is selling one of its works, Painting No. 9 by Piet Mondriaan (1942). All offers will be reviewed, but preference is given to museums, so that the public may enjoy the work. HORTON11 23:33, May 9, 2011 (UTC)
 * If no other offer is made, the Museum of Modern Art is willing to buy it at the estimated value. We will create a new hall for it since this abstract expressionism doesn't fit any of the existing collections. 05:29, May 10, 2011 (UTC)
 * We will wait a few days. If no other offers are submitted, you are free to buy it. HORTON11  13:47, May 10, 2011 (UTC)
 * I'd love to purchase this fine piece of art. The Master&#39;s Voice 15:08, May 10, 2011 (UTC)
 * I presume this is for a private collection? HORTON11  15:26, May 10, 2011 (UTC)
 * You assume correctly, sir. The Master&#39;s Voice 15:35, May 10, 2011 (UTC)
 * I do prefer it to be in a public collction. But, if the LMMA does not express renewed interest in the paintng, you are free to buy it. HORTON11  15:57, May 10, 2011 (UTC)
 * It would be a shame to let it disappear into the shadows of some private chamber, no offense Master. Maybe we can work out an arrangement where the work is at disposal to the public during the summer holiday + september? 05:54, May 11, 2011 (UTC)
 * @Yuri- It would be nice if you could buy it, so that all Lovians can enjoy it. But you two can work out an arrangement. HORTON11 14:16, May 11, 2011 (UTC)
 * "this abstract expressionism doesn't fit any of the existing collections" we have an expert here. Also: all art to the people! Aged youngman 14:19, May 11, 2011 (UTC)

Since no one has offically started the betting i'll start it at 0.01$ to be then donated to MoMA in NYC. Marcus/Michael Villanova 19:55, May 11, 2011 (UTC)

Be different...


I don't really get this stand out marketing of the SDP. . . they are a large party. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 20:20, May 11, 2011 (UTC)

IDK but it's propaganda and a campaign slogan so it doesn't need to make sense The GOP's campign solgan is "A vote for us is a vote for you...p.s. not really" but that doesn't really make sense either. Marcus/Michael Villanova 20:22, May 11, 2011 (UTC)

2 members is hardly large. And we want people to choose the alternative to the traditional parties. To stand out and have their voice heard. HORTON11 20:24, May 11, 2011 (UTC)


 * Lol, that not only applies to your party. The UNS is about as far from a "traditional party" as a cactus is from Antartica. The Master&#39;s Voice 20:26, May 11, 2011 (UTC)

reminds me of southerners saying "Your more different than a Junebug in May." I actually like the campaign slogan. Marcus/Michael Villanova 20:29, May 11, 2011 (UTC)

There are currently no parties with more than two active members. =/ —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 20:31, May 11, 2011 (UTC)