Forum:First Chamber

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The First Chamber is one of the two chambers of the Lovian Congress, the federal legislative branch. Unlike in other nations, the lower chamber serves as a room for debating and compromising, and the higher Second Chamber is where Members of the Congress vote bills that have passed through the First Chamber.

All inhabitants are allowed entry to the Congress, though only Members of the Congress have the right to actively participate.

Dear MOTC --> Liberal Democrats/State Reform
To get something realized, we should keep on going. I've taken all law proposals from above and I've put them on one page, so it would be more conveniently arranged. There are two differences:
 * 1) A minor change in Article 8 - The State Elections (every 6 months) are linked to the Federal Elections (start first week January) and the Mid-term elections (start first week July). Another problem solved: Mid-term elections are more clear.
 * 2) Adapted article 4... added the whole Deputy Governor thing.

Suggestions, questions?

I suggest to create two separate proposals: 1. the amendment (all law proposals on Liberal Democrats/State Reform) which requires a 75% majority and the 2. Federal Law, acts, etc, which requires a 50% majority, if I'm right.

--Bucu 13:59, May 25, 2010 (UTC)
 * Finally getting there. I think this should be the first proposal to vote after the mid-terms. 14:01, May 25, 2010 (UTC)
 * Or.. before ^^ Bucu 14:06, May 25, 2010 (UTC)
 * I wont stop it if it were to be voted before the mid-terms are over but it would be nice to have our new Congress to vote over this. 14:11, May 25, 2010 (UTC)
 * I'll consider it. I'm just afraid that our (=current Congress) work for 2 weeks could be gone. Bucu 14:14, May 25, 2010 (UTC)
 * 75% is indeed a lot but I already heard positive comments from my fellow party members, so that probably are three votes pro. 14:18, May 25, 2010 (UTC)
 * I still think it would be easier to get it through now (8 pro?), than after the elections (13 pro's needed!). It has been a priority since... the new composition of the Congress was established. "Old" Congressmen have been working for it for 2 weeks and it would be a shame if "New" Congressmen would refuse to accept it because they possibly want to see their influence in the proposal too. We finally got a compromise, which is pretty amazing to be sincere. But we will adapt the Federal Law together with them newbies, how about that? Bucu 14:25, May 25, 2010 (UTC)
 * You're right, this is way more important than some symbolic values. When will it be relocated to the second chamber? 14:27, May 25, 2010 (UTC)
 * Well, I hope as fast as possible, maybe before tomorrow! However, as I've still made some minor (but "significant" though) changes, I think it would be fair to wait and see if other MOTCs have suggestions or questions. Bucu 14:30, May 25, 2010 (UTC)
 * --O u WTBsjrief-mich 15:08, May 25, 2010 (UTC)

Public Safety
This looks all very professional and politically correct, but I am a bit worried not to find anything back with respect to the Public safety and as I am afraid my English is not good enough to explain myself better, I have a problem --Lars Washington 14:50, May 25, 2010 (UTC)
 * Indeed. For example it still states that 'one or more MOTC write a motion'. It is very important to me that any citizen can write a law. That is equal to more democracy and more control (since the motion of distrust/impeachment could then also be proposed by citizens). 14:58, May 25, 2010 (UTC)
 * I agree... Bucu 15:00, May 25, 2010 (UTC)

Changes in Government
Dear MOTC, since we just had our mid-term elections I would like to propose a change in the governmental composition. This to give our new colleagues a chance to prove themselves. I tried to take political parties and personalities into consideration. I hope Congress will approve the changes made. Here's the proposal:

Stay the same:
 * Culture, Heritage and Education : Oos Wes Ilava
 * Foreign Affairs : Lars Washington
 * Justice : Alyssa C. Red

Replacements:
 * Industry, Agriculture and Trade : Harold Freeman --> Jon Johnson
 * Tourism and Leisure : vacant --> Marcus Villanova
 * Welfare : Edward Hannis --> Martha Van Ghent
 * Finance : Yuri Medvedev --> Percival E. Galahad

Special case:
 * Energy, Environment and Transportation : Andy McCandless --> split up into:
 * Energy and Environment : Andy McCandless
 * Transportation : Christina Kay Evans

The current composition can be checked here if needed. This is a pretty balanced government I think. I'm sorry if I can't make everyone happy, I gave up my own place to try so. Any comments? 08:23, June 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * Giving transportation away? :o Andy is the only ****ing person who did something with that department! 08:27, June 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * I just figured that it would be better to have an experienced person on E&E and as the WLP is for green politics... 08:29, June 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * True. Anyway, I hope Andy won't mind too much. But I understand your decision Medve: your reasoning is.. reasonable . I'm fine with the rest. 08:30, June 2, 2010 (UTC)

You know Lars has always got my full support; he hasn't done much though and Bucu said he wanted to do something in the current government. Perhaps they could switch? If so, we should first check with Bucu is he plans to be around here in the next months. 08:33, June 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * We'll give him a few days to notice this discussion.  08:49, June 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * Tanx for the post I may occupy, I really love trade! I'll do my best to work some things out after my examination of economics (this afternoon) and probably by then I'll have figured out that I'm not capable of doing this job :p Jon Johnson 09:10, June 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * It's good to see you're enthusiast but you aren't Secretary just yet. Congress will have to vote over this. And good luck with the examination! 09:11, June 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks, I'll be needing it, it's f**** to many to learn! It can't be possible to succeed for this one :p Jon Johnson 09:13, June 2, 2010 (UTC)

This is fine with me. -- 10:59, June 2, 2010 (UTC)

More election Reform
THIS IS THE OLD VERSION

Article 8 – Elections NEW VERSION
 * 1) Federal elections:
 * 2) Every year federal elections are held.
 * 3) The term of office of every Member of the Congress is exactly one year, so every year the elections should be held at the same date.
 * 4) Steps of the federal elections:
 * 5) Every citizen can run for Member of the Congress.
 * 6) After a month, the period of becoming a candidate is done and the voting can begin.
 * 7) Every citizen can vote for three candidates. It’s not possible to vote contra. Voting for less then three candidates is allowed.
 * 8) The candidates with the most votes, and at least three, will become Members of the Congress. But there is a limit of Members of the Congress. This number is decided by the previous Prime Minister, and should always be between 5 and 30.
 * 9) The candidate with the most votes will become Prime Minister.
 * 10) Mid-term elections can be organized if proposed in Congress and approved by a Congressial majority.
 * 11) In these mid-term elections minimum 5 and maximum 10 new Members of the Congress are elected. The number is decided by the Prime Minister, just as the moment of elections.
 * 12) Members of the Congress stay Members without re-election.
 * 13) New federal elections have to be held when more than half of the Members of the Congress are inactive; either self-declared or if they have not edited for over a month (31 days); or when the Prime Minister steps down.
 * 14) Federal Secretaries:
 * 15) The monarch and Prime Minister will chose which Members of the Congress will become Secretaries of a certain Department. Their proposal needs to be accepted by a normal majority in Congress.
 * 16) Congress should be able to question all executing members of government - of any level - about their activities. When they have lost their trust in the questioned person, they can vote a motion of distrust against him or her. When this motion is accepted by a normal majority (50%), he or she has to resign and a replacement has to be proposed by the Prime Minister and approved by Congress.
 * 17) When Congress has lost its trust in the incumbent government, it can vote a motion of distrust. When this motion is accepted by a normal majority (50%), both government and Congress are dissolved and new federal elections are to be held.
 * 18) When the Prime Minister and his government resign, Congress is dissolved and new federal elections are to be held.
 * 19) State elections:
 * 20) Every two year state elections are held.
 * 21) The term of office of every Governor is exactly two year, so every two year the elections should be held at the same date.
 * 22) Steps of the state elections:
 * 23) Every citizen who lives in the state can run for Governor.
 * 24) After two weeks, the period of becoming a candidate is done and the voting can begin.
 * 25) Every citizen can vote for one candidates. It’s not possible to vote contra.
 * 26) The candidates with the most votes, and at least three, will become Governor.

SECTION ONE Re-DONE

Federal elections: MOTC Elections:
 * 1) Every year, in the month of January federal elections are held.
 * 2) The term of office of every Prime Minister is exactly one year,
 * 3) Steps of the federal elections:
 * 4) Every Party can nominate as many members as possible for Prime Minister.
 * 5) After a month, the period of becoming a candidate is done and the voting can begin.
 * 6) Every Citizen can vote for two candidates. It’s not possible to vote contra. Voting for less then two candidates is allowed.
 * 7) The candidate with the most votes, at least three, becomes Prime Minister
 * 8) The Prime Minister becomes automaticly is a MOTC.
 * 1) Every year, in the month of March MOTC elections begin
 * 2) The term of a MOTC is exactly one year
 * 3) Steps of the election:
 * 4) Every citizen can run for Member of the Congress.
 * 5) After a month, the period of becoming a candidate is done and the voting can begin.
 * 6) Every citizen can vote for three candidates. It’s not possible to vote contra. Voting for less then three candidates is allowed.
 * 7) The candidates with the most votes, and at least three, will become Members of the Congress. But there is a limit of Members of the Congress. This number is decided by the previous Prime Minister, and should always be between 5 and 30.
 * 8) Marcus Villanova[[Image:Flag of Lovia Small.png|border|20px]] 20:51, June 3, 2010 (UTC)

Census (mabey a new article or admendment)
I would like to propose a plan that would make it manditory for a yearly census, the Prime Minister would put forth a Census headperson (like me...lol) and count the members of all the cities, (But I do have one question about this if someone lives in more than one house do we only count the first one.) But i'll only make the final proposal if I have enough support... so anyone agree with me? Marcus Villanova 21:39, June 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * I think we need more censusses (or censi?) than one each year. We count all inhabited houses, so if you have two houses, you are counted twice. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 04:54, June 4, 2010 (UTC)
 * I agree with OWTB, one when summer begins and one when winter sets in. This way we can also fix it if someone has more houses than allowed (I might be one of them). 05:55, June 4, 2010 (UTC)
 * So do I. As Yuri suggested, we should bring these things together:
 * census material + citizen's residences + citizenship registration
 * We should make sure that we knów who lives where. 11:59, June 4, 2010 (UTC)
 * So should I right a final version and then try to put it to a vote? Marcus Villanova[[Image:Flag of Lovia Small.png|border|20px]] 19:21, June 4, 2010 (UTC)
 * Sounds alright to me.  07:18, June 6, 2010 (UTC)

Final Version(I don't know if this should be an admentment or article so i'll leave that up to Yuri or Dimi)
Marcus Villanova 17:15, June 6, 2010 (UTC)
 * 1) A census shall take place twice every year, once in July and one in December
 * 2) A person should be counted as many times as he or she has houses
 * 3) A person shall be counted by the Determination of population as already used in censuses before.
 * 4) The Prime Minister shall appoint a person to count all the persons in Lovia
 * 5) To make things clear the Prime Minister shall give the census taker an offical list of all Towns, Neighborhoods, and Hamlets.
 * 6) After all of this takes place the offical numbers will be put out.
 * I think it's a normal article. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 05:10, June 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * Looks nice and it would indeed be a new article. Can't wait to see the results! 05:48, June 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yes very normal i'm like freckin' Andrew Jackson (He was a president if you don't know if look him up on Wikipedia) He didn't care if it was fancy he just cared that it was done also do I need to make an admendent about making the national rugby team 'cuse I Wanted to make a Lovian State Rugby compition like The best players from Seven against Ocecena and all that. Marcus Villanova[[Image:Flag of Lovia Small.png|border|20px]] 20:28, June 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * I don't know whether such things should be put in the law... I think if Dimitri agrees it's the national team, it's national, right? --O u WTBsjrief-mich 04:35, June 8, 2010 (UTC)
 * (@Marcus: Jackson is definitely NOT my favorite president.) I think that these things could be organized by the future Secretary of Leisure (@Yuri: could you get Congress to vote the new gov. composition, please?), but that when governmental bodies, such as leagues funded and organized by the government, Congress should at least vote that. A Federal Law bill would be even better. 07:30, June 8, 2010 (UTC)
 * well if I do become the Department of Toruism and Lesiure headperson may I finalize these things? And any travel bills or player costs will be privately be covered by me, afterall i am assitant coach for the LNRT. Marcus Villanova[[Image:Flag of Lovia Small.png|border|20px]] 21:54, June 8, 2010 (UTC)

New version
I know I'm not MOTC but I've had a go at re-writing it:

An Act to make provision for the taking of a census for Lovia and for obtaining statistical information concerning the population of Lovia.

Regulations concerning the appointment of a census taker.
 * 1) A census must take place in the July and December of every year.
 * 2) The Prime Minister must appoint a Census Taker at those times, whose duty it will be to carry out the census.

Regulations concerning the taking of the Census.
 * 1) The Prime Minister must give the Census Taker an official list of all settlements to ensure clarity.


 * 1) The Census Taker must count each residence once and only once. If an inhabitant owns multiple residences, they will be counted multiple times.


 * 1) The population must be calculated using the system already in place in Lovia.
 * 2) From the data obtained, official figures concerning the population will be calculated and published.

Semyon Edikovich 09:09, June 30, 2010 (UTC)

I like it but the Reg part one will have to be as many houses they have i'll change it! Marcus Villanova 21:04, June 30, 2010 (UTC)

You'll have to get it passed by the end of July, Marcus, or the census won't take place till December. Semyon E. Breyev 10:01, July 1, 2010 (UTC)

Green Energy Act
Lovians need a guarantee that the energy they buy is green. that is why I as Energy Secretary am proposing this bill to be added to the FedLaw.

Bill
Green Energy Act
 * 1) The terms "sustainable energy" and "green energy" cover the provision of energy from sources that are not expected to be depleted in a time frame relevant to our Earth's inhabitants and that do not produce radioactive waste.
 * 2) Within the Kingdom of Lovia, all energy produced, imported and/or exported must be fully sustainable by 2012.
 * 3) The Lovian government reserves the right to sanction corporations that distribute unsustainable energy.

Response
This thing won't cost the state money. at the moment, all energy production in lovia IS green. This bill will allow us to ban future companies that do not produce green power. Also, import of unsustainable energy will be forbidden. 11:33, June 14, 2010 (UTC)
 * I guess you already know my opinion on this: with a state owned energy provider there is a 100% certainty. I will propose this within a few weeks so why don't we incorporate it in this proposal? 11:40, June 14, 2010 (UTC)
 * Let's do this first. if congress won't pass that bill, we will at least have green energy. 11:41, June 14, 2010 (UTC)
 * Okay, but do add the regulation on the import of unsustainable energy. 11:44, June 14, 2010 (UTC)
 * it's already there: "all energy produced, imported and/or exported must be fully sustainable" 11:46, June 14, 2010 (UTC)
 * I see. 11:55, June 14, 2010 (UTC)

Martha Van Ghent 13:33, June 14, 2010 (UTC)
 * --O u WTBsjrief-mich 13:49, June 14, 2010 (UTC)
 * Ooswes, now you have to tell me how you could possibly not support renewable energy? -- 15:35, June 14, 2010 (UTC)
 * yeah. it doesn't cost us money, it doesn't even require that we make a big switch. We just secure our children's future. That's all man; = 15:51, June 14, 2010 (UTC)
 * May I cite your party program, Mr. Ilava? You say, in relation to environmental efforts: "The CCPL doesn't find it credible to increase the amounts of money that go to environment during an economical crisis. Instead we propose to create more National Parks and Green Zones; these are easy and cheap to set up and maintain and therefore are a perfect option."
 * Forbidding wasteful electricity plants is als easy and cheap to do! -- 16:00, June 14, 2010 (UTC)
 * Well, this would in fact be a zero cost/zero effect-bill. No harm done, just a symbolic voting that might have some implications in the (distant) future. 16:03, June 14, 2010 (UTC)

I very much like this proposal! Jon Johnson 16:07, June 14, 2010 (UTC)

Vote
Chairman Andy gave me word I could move this to the second room. Voting occurs here. Martha Van Ghent 13:10, June 26, 2010 (UTC)

Alcohol consumption

 * Article 12 - Alcohol and Narcotics Consumption Regulations Act
 * The term "alcoholic beverage" covers every drink that contains ethanol, commonly known as alcohol. Alcohol is a psychoactive drug that has a depressant effect. A high blood alcohol reduces attention and slows reaction speed. Alcoholic beverages can be addictive.
 * The term "narcotics" covers every substance that alters body functions. Narcotics can be addictive.
 * Alcoholic beverages shall not be sold to persons who have not yet reached the age of 16 years.
 * Both the buyer and the person selling the alcoholic beverage to a person who has not yet reached the age of 16 years are considered to be violating the Federal Law.
 * Narcotics shall not be sold to any person*## Both the buyer and the person selling the narcotics are considered to be violating the Federal Law.
 * Spirits (unsweetened, distilled, alcoholic beverages that have an alcohol content of at least 20% ABV) shall not be sold to persons who have not yet reached the age of 18 years.
 * Both the buyer and the person selling the alcoholic beverage to a minor are considered to be violating the Federal Law.
 * The use of alcoholic beverages and narcotics is forbidden by the Alcohol and Narcotics Regulations Act of the Federal Law, supported by Congress:
 * In all governmental buildings, including federal properties, state properties and properties of the city, town, neighborhood, or hamlet.
 * By employees in all educational institutions during class hours, unless the purpose of a particular course is to educate about alcoholic beverages or narcotics.
 * The use of alcoholic beverages and narcotics in this case is restricted to the absolute minimum. Courses will be dismissed by the Royal Educational Aims Council when this law is violated twice.
 * Persons receiving education should be prohibited from consuming alcohol or using narcotics in the surroundings and inside educational institutes by employees of the latter one.
 * By any person whose professional occupation it is to transport other people. No alcoholic beverages or narcotics shall be consumed during the period starting two three hours before the job officially commences, and until the moment the job officially ends.
 * This includes people working on ferries and aeroplanes as well.
 * By any person whose professional occupation it is to safeguard other people's security. No alcoholic beverages or narcotics shall be consumed during the period starting two hours before the job officially commences, and until the moment the job officially ends.
 * By any person during job hours.
 * By any person doing voluntary work
 * Every Lovian person, company, or organization who owns or manages a building, room, or public place has the right to prohibit the use of alcoholic beverages within that space, supported by Local Police authorities in case of disobedience.
 * A high blood alcohol content is referred to as drunkenness.
 * Each person operating a vehicle while under the influece of alcohol violates the Federal Law.
 * When a driver's blood alcohol concentration is measured to be 0.05% or more at the moment of control and within half an hour of the moment when this person was halted by police authorities, this person is considered to have driven under the influence of alcohol, and has thus violated the Federal Law.
 * A person transporting other people as a professional occupation may not have a blood alcohol concentration of higher than 0.01% during job hours.
 * Public drunkenness is prohibited by the Federal Law.
 * Each person in a public space whose behavior is uncommon and who does not seem to be able to think clearly and act accordingly and whose blood alcoholic concentration is measured to be 0.08% or more, is considered to be under the influence of alcohol, and can be arrested by police authorities.
 * No measures in the form of a financial penalty should be taken against persons accused of being in the state of drunkenness, as the crime itself is malum prohibitum.

Additions are in red. SjorskingmaWikistad 11:17, July 1, 2010 (UTC)
 * I can find myself in this proposal. Could you consider to expand this from just alcohol to narcotic substances? 11:44, July 1, 2010 (UTC)
 * Of course. NLS daadkracht. SjorskingmaWikistad 11:46, July 1, 2010 (UTC)
 * NLS vigor in English I believe (means something like 'the courage to act')  11:49, July 1, 2010 (UTC)
 * Sounds cool. Sure that's going to be my new slogan.SjorskingmaWikistad 11:50, July 1, 2010 (UTC)
 * I would define vigor as energy; the internet says 'forceful exertion'. NLS Vigor still makes sense tho' Semyon E. Breyev 20:06, July 27, 2010 (UTC)

Shall I pass it on to the Second Chamber? SjorskingmaWikistad 14:05, July 1, 2010 (UTC)
 * Maybe you could wait a day or two longer, just to give others the time to comment too. The First Chamber has a function. 15:14, July 1, 2010 (UTC)

Customs bill

 * Article 13 - Customs Act
 * To ensure the border controll of Lovian borders the Lovian Border Controll is erected under the Federal Police Act, supported by Congress and the Department of Foreign Affairs.
 * The Lovian Border Controll is charged with the following duties:
 * Safety matters transgressing state borders together with the Federal Police.
 * Controll matters transgressing state borders together with the Federal Police.
 * The Lovian Border Controll is therefore appointed to check passports of any person entering or leaving the country.
 * The Lovian Border Controll is therefore appointed to keep track of any person entering or leaving the country.
 * The Lovian Border Controll has delegations in all states and is always prepared to help local authorities.
 * The Lovian Border Controll is headed by the Federal Head of Border Controll, appointed by the Secretary of Foreign Affairs.

SjorskingmaWikistad 22:05, July 1, 2010 (UTC)

Copyright bill

 * Article 14 - Copyright Act
 * Copyright and copyright works
 * Copyright is a property right which subsists in accordance with this act in the following descriptions of work
 * original literary, dramatic, musical or artistic works,
 * sound recordings, films, broadcasts or cable programmes, and
 * the typographical arrangement of published editions.
 * In this act “copyright work” means a work of any of those descriptions in which copyright subsists.
 * Copyright does not subsist in a work unless the requirements of this act, with respect to qualification for copyright protection, are met
 * Rights subsisting in copyright works
 * The owner of the copyright in a work of any description has the exclusive right to do the acts specified below as the acts restricted by the copyright in a work of that description.
 * The owner of the copyright in a work has, in accordance with the following provisions of this act, the exclusive right to do the following acts in the Lovia
 * to copy the work
 * to issue copies of the work to the public
 * to perform, show or play the work in public
 * to broadcast the work or include it in a cable programme service
 * to make an adaptation of the work or do any of the above in relation to an adaptation

SjorskingmaWikistad 22:16, July 1, 2010 (UTC)
 * I see you are doing good work filling in the gaps in our law. Only do note that copyrights are hardly enforceable on a wiki. 08:15, July 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * Well, this is one of the more fictional laws. SjorskingmaWikistad 08:39, July 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * I already thought so. I don't mind the law but I don't really deem it a priority either. Nonetheless, I like your efforts. 08:47, July 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * So far I'm one of the few parties making its promises for change true. Though, of course this subjects don't really correspond with the NLS opinions. SjorskingmaWikistad 09:00, July 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * Even wat bills erdoor rammen, zeg maar SjorskingmaWikistad 09:01, July 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * Just to make this clear: the CPL.nm is working on proposals too, but nationalization and economy are delicate subjects. I prefer not to take risks by rushing things. But it is good less controversial subjects are handled in the mean time. 09:05, July 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * I totally agree. Commies leave some workspace for each other. SjorskingmaWikistad 09:14, July 2, 2010 (UTC)

Abortion bill

 * Article 15 - Abortion Act
 * Abortion is legal throughout the entire nation of Lovia, on the following grounds.
 * To save the woman's life
 * To prevent grave permanent injury to the woman's physical or mental health
 * Under 28 weeks to avoid injury to the physical or mental health of the woman
 * Under 28 weeks to avoid injury to the physical or mental health of the existing child(ren)
 * If the child was likely to be severely physically or mentally handicapped
 * When the situation doesn't meet at least one of this standards, abortion is illegal
 * Abortion can only be performed in a certified hospital

SjorskingmaWikistad 09:11, July 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * By the way, this is one of the NLS viewpoints: abortion needs to be legalized in certain circumstances. SjorskingmaWikistad 09:13, July 2, 2010 (UTC)

Vote!
Please all of you can you plaese get the lead out and vote on these important issues. If you don't like it please debate and discuss it in this chamber, almost all of you just say contra and contra please strike what you don't like and please. Don't just freaking stand there and disagree with it, that gets us no where and freaking leaves us in gridlock! Please come and discuss these issues, I fell like were getting almost nowhere! Is anybody here, can anbody see what i see in this nation, can you hear what i say! Please can just work together, not as divided but equal and together to work for Lovia. Thank you. Marcus Villanova 21:38, July 4, 2010 (UTC)
 * You probably wont like this but voting laws takes time, even more now since this is the largest Congress ever. The proposals you made are already quite far in the voting process considering the rather low activity these days. 05:44, July 5, 2010 (UTC)

Ecompany
To control the vital parts of our economy in order to stabilize our country against the economical crisis, I suggest we buy Ecompany. Also, we need to safeguard the supply of energy for our inhabitants. For three reasons I suggest buying Ecompany: SjorskingmaWikistad 10:19, July 5, 2010 (UTC)
 * 1) We need a stable energy supply, that doesn't collapse under the economical crisis.
 * 2) We need to be able to control the sustainability of energy ourself.
 * 3) We need to have state operated energy comapny in order to be able to compete with much larger companies of foreign (American) descent
 * 4) It won't cost us a lot, since Ecompany is already partly from the state
 * 5) Our PM is owner of the Ecomapny. I call that a conflict of interest.
 * Conflict if interest? I have been nagging for over three months know just so I could grant it to the state! 10:41, July 5, 2010 (UTC)

More general
I already wrote a more general proposal on this. Perhaps we can use that instead of just buying one company?
 * 1) The Lovian Government has the power to execute direct economic activities
 * 2) In the form of a State-owned Company (SOC) when having a majority of the shares
 * 3) A SOC is headed and run by a branch of the involved department(s)
 * 4) The goal of a SOC is to provide a certain public service
 * 5) Any company providing a public service can become a SOC
 * 6) When declared a public service, only a SOC can provide it
 * 7) In the form of a State-involved Company (SIC) when having a minority of the shares
 * 8) A SIC is run privately but with the involved department(s) as shareholder(s)
 * 9) A SIC is a means in the execution of the governmental policies
 * 10) Any company that is of importance to governmental policy can become a SIC
 * 11) Only the Congress has the power to approve or alter the statute of a SOC or SIC
 * 12) The executing powers are responsible for their own economic decisions
 * 13) A complete list of all SOC/SIC and their specifications:
 * 14) Lovian Energy Company (60%) - Department of Energy and Environment
 * 15) Lovian Water Company (100%) - Department of Energy and Environment
 * 16) Unified Railroad Company (60%) - Department of Transportation

Notes: (not to be added in the law)
 * The Lovian Energy Company will be a merger of the energy-producing branch of Ecompany and Walkernet
 * The Lovian Water Company yet has to be created since we don't have any company providing the service?!
 * The Unified Railroad Company will be a merger of the Pacific Railroad Company and Newhaven Express/Connect
 * The remaining shares will be divided between the current company owners
 * 10:40, July 5, 2010 (UTC)
 * I agree if we include Ecompany in the law, instead of the Lovian Energy Company. SjorskingmaWikistad 10:52, July 5, 2010 (UTC)
 * But those are (almost) the same. You see, I want to merge the two Lovian energy companies to form one state-owned company. 11:00, July 5, 2010 (UTC)
 * O, I didn't read very well for your idea! SjorskingmaWikistad 11:04, July 5, 2010 (UTC)
 * I hope others will agree as well. It is about time we introduce public services. 11:10, July 5, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yes, and it's about time we get some socialistic points through. SjorskingmaWikistad 11:34, July 5, 2010 (UTC)

Proposal for sixth amendment
I want to propose an additional amendment. When searching on Wikipedia I discovered in the constitution of Estonia that Article 18 forbids torture and involuntary scientific experiments. This is not stated in the Lovian constituion. Shall we add it? SjorskingmaWikistad 10:28, July 5, 2010 (UTC)
 * Perhaps you should read our Constitution instead of the Estonian one :
 * Art. 1.A.2. Lovia is a democratic and social state, governed by the rule of law, in which human dignity, the citizens' rights and freedoms, the free development of human personality, justice and political pluralism represent supreme values, in the spirit of the democratic traditions of the Lovian people and shall be guaranteed.
 * Art. 2.1.5. Every human being and citizen has the right to be arrested in a trial and to be treated correctly .
 * 10:44, July 5, 2010 (UTC)
 * I did read the whole law to avoid such embarrassments. The Estonian one includes that as well, but specifies it more with artcle 18. SjorskingmaWikistad 10:53, July 5, 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm not against the idea of adding it but I feel no real need either. Any judge would convict a torturer by the existing law. 11:02, July 5, 2010 (UTC)
 * I don't think we should add it but arrest people who do it beacuse it's sorta implied. And can somone change this back to black writing! Marcus Villanova[[Image:Flag of Lovia Small.png|border|20px]] 13:15, July 5, 2010 (UTC)
 * Black writing? SjorskingmaWikistad 13:23, July 5, 2010 (UTC)
 * The writing is in red! Marcus Villanova[[Image:Flag of Lovia Small.png|border|20px]] 13:46, July 5, 2010 (UTC)

State elections
According to the constitution state elections are held every two year. The last ones were from January 2008, so new ones are needed. SjorskingmaWikistad 18:49, July 5, 2010 (UTC)

Please can we hold elections now! Marcus Villanova 20:23, July 5, 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm for.--O u WTBsjrief-mich 05:04, July 6, 2010 (UTC)
 * I totally agree though I would like to mention that now (as in this instant) could be problematic since a lot of people are on holiday trips - like our King and miss Red. That could pose problems with the candidatures/voting. 07:46, July 6, 2010 (UTC)
 * Agree. I'm going on holiday in three weeks time as well. We'll hold elections after summer break. SjorskingmaWikistad 07:52, July 6, 2010 (UTC)

Mayor of Sofasi
The mayor of Sofasi is Robin Ferguson, not active anymore. I want to apply for mayorship. SjorskingmaWikistad 18:53, July 5, 2010 (UTC)
 * No harm in that. 19:20, July 5, 2010 (UTC)
 * Can I add my name than? SjorskingmaWikistad 19:41, July 5, 2010 (UTC)
 * Well he has been inactive long enough to declare him dead so add your name as provisional mayor and after some time, if no-one gives negative comments, you could stay. It is hard to make this legal since there is no real procedure for appointing mayors but I support you. 07:48, July 6, 2010 (UTC)
 * Okay, thank you SjorskingmaWikistad 07:51, July 6, 2010 (UTC)

(About the Pines Forest thing: I will add the forest in a less present way and I would be glad to help you expanding the article) - that between brackets. 07:52, July 6, 2010 (UTC)

Public broadcasting bill
Public broadcasting bill
 * 1) The LPB is the public broadcasting organisation of Lovia
 * 2) The LPB operates two television channels
 * 3) The LPB operates three radio channels
 * 4) The LPB is subsidized by the state
 * 5) The LPB cannot ask its listeners for fees
 * 6) The LPB cannot ask its watchers for fees
 * 7) The LPB can generate an additional income with advertising
 * 8) The LPB can only advertise in specially regulated advertising blocks on television
 * 9) The LPB can only advertise in specially regulated advertising blocks on radio
 * 10) The LPB cannot advertise for unhealthy or subversive products
 * 11) The LPB is part of the Department of Culture, Heritage and Education

Additions are welcome SjorskingmaWikistad 07:01, July 8, 2010 (UTC)
 * What about adding that the LPB can not advertise for unhealthy or subversive products + under which department she falls. 08:26, July 8, 2010 (UTC)
 * Why three radio channels? Isn't that a little bit too expensive for ±23.000 people? --O u WTBsjrief-mich 08:55, July 8, 2010 (UTC)
 * Maybe. Lovia is a rich country. SjorskingmaWikistad 10:08, July 8, 2010 (UTC)
 * As a Liberal, I oppose this bill. Percival E. Galahad 16:59, July 27, 2010 (UTC)

Sofasian to be recognized as a official language
Can Sofasian be recognized as an official language? SjorskingmaWikistad 13:52, July 8, 2010 (UTC)
 * I think not, although, that's my opinion, 'West Vlaams' or even worse 'antwerps' aren't official language, maybe we can make a page of officially recognized 'dialects', we can create special rights for dialects, which of course will be inferior to those of a national language, what do you think? Jon Johnson 14:12, July 8, 2010 (UTC)
 * Jon, you should know that that Oceana-language thing that looks like a bizarre breed of Limburgish, Slovak and English (no offense) is recognized. See here: Oceana (language). 14:19, July 8, 2010 (UTC)
 * And why do sou say that? Jon Johnson 14:25, July 8, 2010 (UTC)
 * By the way, it's not a dialect, my language, just like Oshenna isn't a dialect. SjorskingmaWikistad 14:27, July 8, 2010 (UTC)
 * If you understand Ech hún hechù hestir, you can call it a dialect. SjorskingmaWikistad 14:28, July 8, 2010 (UTC)
 * I know, but I just don't want to become a second south africa or worse belgium :p, let's keep it simple guys Jon Johnson 14:31, July 8, 2010 (UTC)
 * (1) If you recognize one local language you must foresee a procedure open to all of them, (2) the human rights have a part on recognizing minorities. Besides, Dimitri once said that if I made a mixture of Danish, Dutch and English and write a nice article on it (with history and description) it would be recognized too. He can apply, you can vote no - it's as simple as that. 14:32, July 8, 2010 (UTC)
 * Ah, it's isn't too bad in Belgium, isn't it? SjorskingmaWikistad 14:33, July 8, 2010 (UTC)
 * Not cultural no, but it has grown the last yeat and it became a political very heavy and sensitive area! Jon Johnson 14:36, July 8, 2010 (UTC)
 * Belgium has had troubles since it was created; and it will keep having them if we keep clenching ourselves to those 'false identities'. In Lovia however, a nation of immigrants, the site remains english - leaving the way to troubles closed. 14:39, July 8, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yes, of course, but I like making conlangs. I already created one for Llamada, and Sofasian is my fourth language. SjorskingmaWikistad 14:59, July 8, 2010 (UTC)
 * I know, but I'm just not really the person to defend multiple languages, it's simple and easy like it is, and actually when the languages which are officially recognized, all the laws should be written in those languages you see Jon Johnson 17:15, July 8, 2010 (UTC)
 * I'll give it a try for the first article of the constitution then But back to the subject: shall we recognize Sofasian? It's spoken by more people than Oshenna. SjorskingmaWikistad 18:38, July 8, 2010 (UTC)
 * You have the right to put it to a vote and I think you have a good chance at getting it recognized. Of course you shouldn't be surprised when some people vote contra. 06:23, July 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * Sorry but I won't vote pro, sorry, since I think the country needs to be simple Jon Johnson 10:38, July 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * I understand your - by the way reasonable - argument, Jon. Nonetheless I feel it has the right to be recognized since Oceana already is. 06:20, July 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * I agree with our socialist friend here. Percival E. Galahad 16:58, July 27, 2010 (UTC)

I wouldn't mind it if you lower the number of native speakers a bit. At the moment there are more speakers of Sofasian then there are inhabitants of Sofasi... If you take a look at f.e. local languages in the Netherlands (Limburg and some towns in Low Saxon and Frisian areas are an exception) would take about 50% of the inhabitants, not 120%. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 07:27, July 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * But it is about the whole of Clymene. But I'll lower it a few hundred people. :) SjorskingmaWikistad 09:08, July 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * Clymene only consists of Sofasi and Adoha (221 inhabitants) :) But thanks anyway ;) --O u WTBsjrief-mich 09:04, July 11, 2010 (UTC)

Taxes Act
In the country of Lovia their are multiple sort of taxes. The taxes are collected according to the one cas principle.
 * 1) The general tax is charged upon the revenues of all inhabitants and enterprises according to the principles of progressivism and linearity.
 * 2) Interval A: income < 800$: 0%
 * 3) Interval B: 801$ - 1500$: 14%
 * 4) Interval C: 1501$ - 2500$: 22%
 * 5) Interval D: 2501$ - 4500$: 32%
 * 6) Interval E: income > 4500$: 45%


 * 1) Contributions are held on residences. The different sorts of this type of taxes are determinate by the occupied area.
 * 2) Retributions are special taxes which are allocated to all companies in the country of Lovia. The charge, in terms of percentage, depends on the possession of certificates granted by the specific departments of Energy and Environment, and Welfare. The system follows a reduction policy.
 * 3) Normal retribution standard: 16%
 * 4) Certificate reduction: 7%


 * 1) Lump-sum-charges are held on luxurious goods.
 * 2) Under the terms of luxurious goods we understand
 * 3) Every second, third and fourth house
 * 4) Exotic placement products
 * 5) All extra personnel incomes besides the main income


 * 1) Penalty Tax, a sort of tax that is used by the congress to punish socially undesirable behavior
 * 2) Risk speculates
 * 3) Consumption of unhealthy goods


 * 1) Import policy
 * 2) The Lovian Country charges foreigns companies following the cascading formula.
 * 3) The Lovian Countrt charges Lovian companies which situated abroad more.
 * 4) Interval A: Sufficiant national supply: 25%
 * 5) Interval B: Normal national supply: 15%
 * 6) Interval C: Scarce national supply: 7%

Their have been made some comments allready, look at my sandpit Jon Johnson 14:36, July 8, 2010 (UTC)
 * get these rich b******! SjorskingmaWikistad 14:29, July 8, 2010 (UTC)
 * You forgot to sign, Jon.  14:33, July 8, 2010 (UTC)
 * Sorry! Marcus Villanova[[Image:Flag of Lovia Small.png|border|20px]] 16:39, July 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * Looks quite alright, but we should make sure this is a law, instead of a tax receipt. Full sentences, definitions, clauses, etc. Percival E. Galahad 16:56, July 27, 2010 (UTC)

Place stop
I propose that we stop inventing more towns and hamlets and so on. I saw a town called Portland was present on the map of Kings by Yuri, and I have scheduled a town called Plains on Truth Island a few weeks ago (in my mind). I think after the creation of those two we should put a stop on it. A stop on the building of places (and also neighborhoods, 'cause that are in fact pseudo-places) Not in the form of a bill, but more in an informal way, a sort of an agreement between us all. SjorskingmaWikistad 11:22, July 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * Neighborhoods I'm still doubting about. A think that's up to the governors when they are finally elected whether new neighborhoods are still desirable in their states. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 12:10, July 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * Neighborhoods should indeed still be allowed when they are needed. It is then up to the governor to decide on the interpretation of needed. 14:31, July 11, 2010 (UTC)

Who the fuck gave you noobs the right to build new towns? Not again the same shit eh... 08:47, July 25, 2010 (UTC)
 * Only governors can approve/deny, am I right? (btw: good to have you back) 09:28, July 25, 2010 (UTC)
 * The uppernoob is back :D Jon Johnson 12:36, July 25, 2010 (UTC)
 * I'am swimming in the red now ... --Lars Washington 13:04, July 25, 2010 (UTC)
 * The Red Sea? (this is starting to look like pub chat :O) 14:16, July 25, 2010 (UTC)
 * @Jon: Who's the uppernoob? Semyon E. Breyev 16:04, July 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * He refers to our 'LeuterKöning' (sorry for the insider). 17:00, July 27, 2010 (UTC)

Place Stop Bill
we cannot allow lovia to be destroyed by building addicts. Our nature and environment need protection from these grotesk plans. that's why i am proposing a temporary place stop bill. There are plenty of towns and neighborhoods in lovia that are empty: why build more??

Content
Congress will prohibit the creation of new neighborhoods, hamlets, towns and cities until a full state reform plan has been accepted and introduced; so that the responsible governments can manage building policies themselves.

Congress will put newly created neighborhoods, hamlets, towns and cities on hold until that time. We cannot afford to have many more places: Lovia is already jammed with empty streets. These newly created places are: Bayfield, Hurket-on-Kings, Novosevensk, Orange Gardens, Plains, Portland.

It must be noted that after the reform plan, all of these towns and neighborhoods may be re-submitted, for there are some very nice ones among them.

Talk
comment splease 07:05, July 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * btw: this is NOT personal. I do like these towns and all that; i just don't think we should build em recklessly. 07:11, July 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * I don't like the on-hold option at all; this matter is loose of state reform. What we really need are new state elections so that we have governors who are present and can see to the completion of the new towns/hamlets. Not that I am against the idea of a thorough reform, it is just that it would take longer than organizing state elections which is after all a more direct way to deal with this issue. 07:41, July 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * State elections must be reformed themselves, mr. prime minister. First things first: dealing with legal framework is more important than this building frenzy! 07:46, July 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * Unless you know a way to lineup a majority of MOTC behind a proposal that doesn't need revision a hundred times, I prefer to have elections first and reform afterwards. I support more democracy on the lower levels; putting everything 'on hold' until we figure out a solution seems to collide with that view. Portland for instance was build according to all the existing regulations, so why temporarily shut it down? 09:42, July 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * Do not shut down my beloved Novosevensk or I shall release my vengeange upon thee! BastardRoyale 15:33, July 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * Er...thanks for the support, BR. Seriously though, I think that it will be difficult to 'shut down' these towns. Novosevensk already has 4 inhabitants, as does Portland, and Plains has two. There are other articles that have been made concerning them as well (e.g. Truth Island Railway), so they are fairly well integrated.


 * I apologise if I didn't discuss enough before building Novosevensk, but I have worked hard on that project and would be disappointed if it was all just thrown down the drain. Semyon E. Breyev 16:15, July 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * Andy only proposes too freeze the projects until we sorted things out; You wont loose the project but I still deem even a freeze unnecessary. It doesn't help no-one. 08:48, July 27, 2010 (UTC)