Forum:The Pub

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nl:Forum:De kroegli:Forum:De Kaffeero:RoWikicity:Cafeneasv:Forum:Krogen Welcome to The Pub! This is the general meeting place in Lovia. Inhabitants can make public announcements, have a friendly chat with some copatriots, or discuss crucial issues in Lovian politics or business. Speeches can also be made at Speakers' Corner. All archives of The Pub can be found here.

And suddenly the wiki was silent
What happened? :o --QytokantFRÅGOR??? 11:34, April 17, 2014 (UTC)


 * Too many people left and nobody replaced them. HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 13:50, April 17, 2014 (UTC)
 * :( --O u WTB 07:22, April 18, 2014 (UTC)
 * Yeah I first noticed it when I couldn't get bills passed in the Clymene state Council. Marcus/Michael Villanova 13:27, April 18, 2014 (UTC)
 * We need to do something about this and bring back activity, or else Oceana and Sylvania will secede and northern Lovia will become an overseas territory of Brunant. HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 14:49, April 18, 2014 (UTC)
 * Nah.. Don't think that'll be logic or even a boost for the activity. --O u WTB 15:17, April 18, 2014 (UTC)
 * Don't be so quick to dismiss that. A couple of well-known individuals were the masterminds to this plan and it's still could (potentially) happen. HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 15:42, April 18, 2014 (UTC)
 * And if Clymene doesn't want to become a Brunanter colony? --QytokantFRÅGOR??? 17:25, April 18, 2014 (UTC)
 * Of course they don't (well actually a handful might support something), though a colony is off the books as far as I'm aware (in favor of some French-style overseas territory/collectivity or something similar). That said as Lovian PM I will fight to the death to ensure the country is not divided. HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 13:28, April 19, 2014 (UTC)
 * And I will support the PM in his fight to ensure that Lovia remains undivided :P --QytokantFRÅGOR??? 16:30, April 19, 2014 (UTC)
 * Or we could just do a Clymene Independence Movement? That could be fun!? A Radical Lenninist-Vanguard movement rises up and takes over the state? Sounds cool  Marcus/Michael Villanova 00:53, April 20, 2014 (UTC)
 * That's also a good idea :P --QytokantFRÅGOR??? 08:08, April 20, 2014 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I think an independence movement or something similar would be a realistic thing to do. Maybe Clymene could declare independence, or have a referendum, or some sort of similar independence movement. Or even more exciting, Northern Lovia could declare independence from the southern states. Frijoles333 TALK 08:25, April 20, 2014 (UTC)
 * Yes, that would be interesting, though I don't see the north having the ability to sustain an independent country. HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 14:33, April 20, 2014 (UTC)
 * Way too many colons here. Anyway, we know that controversy, violence, and stuff like that make activity spike, so we should do something like this. I'd say the backstory would be that the devolution would cause strengthening of states' rights movements as they decide that they no longer need the federal government at all. This would let us go back to being unitary! —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 19:56, April 20, 2014 (UTC)
 * The Cornwallian People and Villanova Family could def lead the cause.Marcus/Michael Villanova 19:59, April 20, 2014 (UTC)
 * And in Kings there could be a spike in activity as the North of the state tries to become part of the cause whereas the south of the state and Newhaven wants closer ties with the south. Anyway, TM's right... conflict and controversy would lead to an increase an activity. Or, the backstory could be that the Northern States are getting sick of Sylvanian dominance of the economy and want to break free from the federal government Frijoles333 TALK 20:07, April 20, 2014 (UTC)
 * Yes, this could be a good idea. But I would have to oppose any cesessiont movement in my role as PM. Other characters of mine might be more open. HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 20:20, April 20, 2014 (UTC)
 * Yes, this would all be good. Perhaps the UN would decide to stay out this time, causing increased instability and panic. I think that Frijoles's idea would be perfect as well -- since the federal government is managing the economy less, Sylvania would dominate. I would say that we should play multiple characters; it just has to be fun and interesting so that we can get people to be active again. I could talk to Quarantine Zone again and see if he wants to come back and participate as well. Perhaps we could follow this up with a new election of Congress. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 21:13, April 20, 2014 (UTC)
 * Perhaps there would be Brunant citizens killed here that would lead to Brunanter involvement? And the killings could end up being a Tagog intelligence operation? —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 21:21, April 20, 2014 (UTC)
 * Possibly, that could be a good idea. Right now the territory I might see most likely falling under Brunanter influence might be Truth Island, but for other reasons. Marcus plans to declare Clymene independent and given that he is a socialist with nationalization in mind, the (mostly conservative-liberal) owners of the resorts and businesses in Adoha would be opposed to joining such a Clymene. With Lovia falling apart they might push for protection or inclusion in another country. IRL the US might be the more realistic one, but it'd be more itneresting to have a wikination take the position of providing security and stability as well as other services. HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 21:39, April 20, 2014 (UTC)
 * Lovia should end up re-uniting at the end. I was thinking that Noble City and maybe Newhaven would stay under government control as they are benefiting most under the current system while Oceana, West Sylvania, parts of Kings, and the north would each become a variety of rebel groups with only a little unity against the government and each with separate goals. Then various foreign governments (US and some Wikinations) would be manipulating or possibly intervening in order to gain territory, political power, etc. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 21:55, April 20, 2014 (UTC)
 * Well if splitting up Lovia means saving the site, I would not mind in the end (OOC of course). Though the rest you mention sounds about ok. HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 13:18, April 21, 2014 (UTC)

Shall we make a separate forum for planning? Or meet on chat? —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 21:38, April 20, 2014 (UTC)
 * Frijoles and I are on chat now, please come if you can. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 21:57, April 20, 2014 (UTC)
 * Well you don't seem to be on chat as the same times as me. HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 13:18, April 21, 2014 (UTC)
 * Yeah, there is not enough overlap, I think. Let's keep it on wiki. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 03:00, April 22, 2014 (UTC)


 * Hey Idea: The Clymene Marxist-Lenninist Union (CM-LU) Rises to power, kills Villanova and the family, a character I role play now becomes Leader of Clymene and take it from there? Marcus/Michael Villanova 23:14, April 21, 2014 (UTC)


 * Hey, I decided to plan a meeting in order to discuss the matter:
 * Location: Lovia Chat
 * Time: 15:00 (GMT +1) (UK)
 * Date: 22 April 2014
 *  Happy65   Talk CNP  LogoCNP.png 15:01, April 21, 2014 (UTC)
 * This, nor any time before 21:00 UTC on a weekday isn't going to work for me and I won't be able to be on chat this weekend or the next. I'd say let's just keep it here for now. Marcus, I don't think killing Villanova would be good unless you want to stop playing that character permanently. :P —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 02:59, April 22, 2014 (UTC)
 * Interesting idea Marcus, go with it. But wouldn't killing the Villanovas be too extreme? HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 13:22, April 22, 2014 (UTC)
 * Yeah the Char is sorta predictable. I'll get the revolution brewing this weekend or next week Marcus/Michael Villanova 22:09, April 22, 2014 (UTC)

An important announcement to whom it may concern
I have an important announcement to whom it may concern. Truth Island has become an overseas territory of the Kingdom of Brunant following outrage from the island's citizens after mainland Clymeni citizens were interested in forming an independent socialist state. All citizens residing on Truth Island shall be given Brunanter passports, and will be awarded Brunanter citizenship. The new Prime Minister of the overseas territory of the Kingdom of Brunant is Melvin Ross. All citizens residing on Truth Island will not be able to vote in Lovian elections any longer, and instead only regional elections for Truth Island.

Signed, 

The Prime Minister of Brunant, Peter Wostor

The Minister of Brunanter External Affairs: Peter Wostor

The Lovian Government disputes this and does not recognize this illegal movement. The interest of a small minority of Clymeni citizens is not at all an excuse for this annexation. We request that Melvin Ross leave immediately. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 22:16, April 22, 2014 (UTC)

TimeMaster, you are no longer part of the Lovian Government, so you can't exactly make a statement on its behalf Frijoles333 TALK 22:19, April 22, 2014 (UTC)
 * I thought about that, but decided that this would be the response nonetheless and went ahead with it. Also, I am not playing any character here. You can't exactly say anyone controls the government itself, only characters. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 23:00, April 22, 2014 (UTC)
 * Well, actually, I suppose you could say that people do control the government, and that those people are those whose characters are elected to congress. You are not one of those people, since you chose not to stand for re-election Frijoles333 TALK 23:07, April 22, 2014 (UTC)
 * I don't agree, and this is irrelevant and is detracting from the situation intending to re-ignite activity, NOT just be "lol Brunant takes over Truth Island Lovia sucks the end". Also, TimeMaster has never been part of the government. Perhaps you were referring to Krosby? —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 23:15, April 22, 2014 (UTC)
 * I think that a territory should have the right of autodetermination, and if the people wanted it to be separate they should. Traspes (talk) 22:40, April 22, 2014 (UTC)
 * This is a takeover by Brunant, and there was no vote besides someone writing "there was a vote", which doesn't count. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 23:00, April 22, 2014 (UTC)
 * Similarly, you can't say that this seccession is somehow invalid just because one person thinks it should be. At the same time, myself and others decided to go ahead with this seccession, and you can't declare it in someway invalid just because you don't think its a good idea. Frijoles333 TALK 23:07, April 22, 2014 (UTC)
 * But the people interested to work on the Truth Island wanted to be separated, and nobody that was in Truth Island was against. Traspes (talk) 23:14, April 22, 2014 (UTC)
 * I'm in Truth Island and this was very sudden and I was not consulted. Perhaps you went ahead with Happy's random time of a chat meeting that was convenient for him but made me unhappy and discussed it there without me? Anyway, I thought it was obviously that this is a roleplay. I myself am not saying that this is invalid. In fact, I am quite glad it is happening. I merely saying that the Lovian government considers this invalid, but can't do much about it as Brunant is much more powerful. Thus, we will need to find a way to roleplay the recovery of Truth Island, as if you think that Truth Island should secede indefinitely, that is quite silly. The idea here is to re-ignite activity, not just be "lol Brunant takes over Truth Island Lovia sucks the end". —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 23:18, April 22, 2014 (UTC)
 * Actually, I've discussed it quite extensively with both Horton and Happy. And you could have contributed to the discussion without coming on chat... You could have posted a message here or on my talk page and I would have addressed your concerns. Also, I find it a little insulting that you believe the extent of my thinking on the matter is "lol Brunant takes over Truth Island Lovia sucks the end" Frijoles333 TALK 23:23, April 22, 2014 (UTC)
 * And I find it insulting that you think discussing it with Horton and Happy but not anyone else is sufficient. How was I supposed to contribute when the pages were already created when I came on today? e_e I could not have contributed. But this is no longer important. We are just claiming to be insulted at this point, so let's agree to disagree and stop. In the future, I recommend that we keep stuff off chat unless every interested user can be on. I have posted my concerns here, as you can see. And the quote that has now been posted three times is how I feel to some extent about it... I think we should have waited longer. But as I said, this is irrelevant. Let's try to make the best of this and get to the roleplay, which should be the reason we are doing this (please clarify if it is not). —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 23:38, April 22, 2014 (UTC)


 * A notice was posted in the Pub yesterday and it's not my fault you didn't log on until now, but as you said, let's stop the discussion now. Yes, let's try to make the best of this. And of course it's not too late... you can still contribute, just leave suggestions on the talk pages or even go ahead and edit. But most importantly of all, it's getting late now in the UK, so bye for now :) Frijoles333 TALK 23:55, April 22, 2014 (UTC)
 * I only saw something about Truth Island being the most likely location to be under Brunanter influence. I will be gone for the next two weekends, so I might not be able to get any more movements started for three weeks. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 01:05, April 23, 2014 (UTC)

To review: TimeMaster (the OOC user) supports the annexation/secession because it will increase activity, but wishes that it will be reversed at the end of this series of events (a few weeks to a few months). The Lovian Government (IC), who TimeMaster played momentarily because their response was obvious, is against it because it is a violation of their sovereignty. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 23:22, April 22, 2014 (UTC)

Citizenship
There is no Truth Island citizenship, with persons permanently living on the island prior to 8 April 2014 or born on or after that date being conferred Brunanter Citizenship. But what about non-permanent residents, new (Lovian) residents to the island and Truth Island-born people living outside? Would dual citizneship apply? Would/should there be limits, such as requiring residency? Ideas? HORTON11 : •  15:38, April 22, 2014 (UTC)

Citizenship Lovians with connections to Truth Island* should acquire Brunanter citizenship Truth Islanders should continue to keep Lovian citizenship Both of the above should acquire/maintain both citizenships Lovians and Truth Islanders should only maintain the single citizenship

* This would include those who are part-time residents or those who were born in the island.

Should there be limits as to who can acquire or maintain the other citizenship? Yes No

Truth Island currency referendum
Which currency should Truth Island use? Lovian dollar Euro Its own currency

Here's a proposal of dollar notes. What do you guys think? HORTON11 : •  19:49, April 22, 2014 (UTC)