Forum:The Pub

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nl:Forum:De kroegli:Forum:De Kaffeero:RoWikicity:Cafeneasv:Forum:Krogen Welcome to The Pub! This is the general meeting place in Lovia. Inhabitants can make public announcements, have a friendly chat with some copatriots, or discuss crucial issues in Lovian politics or business. Speeches can also be made at Speakers' Corner. All archives of The Pub can be found here. Don't forget to check out the news on the main page!

Activity
Isn't it time we got back to bringing activity to Lovia? HORTON11 : •  16:27, January 14, 2015 (UTC)
 * You got any suggestions? :o --O u WTB 11:42, January 15, 2015 (UTC)
 * Not that I support violence, but the last few times we've managed to bring a boost with some war in Lovia. Or perhaps I should declare Truth Island autonomous again in order to see Kunarian return and go all crazy. How about you? Any ideas? HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 14:19, January 15, 2015 (UTC)
 * Linguistics seems to be capable of reviving Burenia, so let's see if that also works in Lovia :P --QytokantFRÅGOR??? 16:14, January 15, 2015 (UTC)
 * Maybe we need Latino immigrants :o --O u WTB 16:22, January 15, 2015 (UTC)
 * Illegal immigration? Perhaps we could even go with some political shakeup or even something linked to the current global terrorism. HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 18:21, January 15, 2015 (UTC)
 * We do not really have a muslim population though :o --O u WTB 10:16, January 16, 2015 (UTC)
 * No, but if Lovia were to support the wider fight against terrorism, who knows. And then again, we could always work on more Muslims. Traspes doesn't have a particularly large Muslim population yet they were hit by a terrorist attack in the summer. HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 16:45, January 16, 2015 (UTC)
 * @support wider fight: agree with that; @more muslims: contra :P We don't have anyone in the community who knows something about islam and besides, I'm pretty sure we don't want 'em :P --O u WTB 10:02, January 17, 2015 (UTC)
 * Well then, how about making some sort of group operating in wikinations that has links to ISIS and goinng from there? HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 14:33, January 17, 2015 (UTC)

I'd prefer linguistics to revive the wiki along with more development of the history of the wiki. Anywho. Forgive me for disappearing. I've had a lot happen recently and to put it succinctly: I'm going to be a father to a baby girl soon. And I'm currently trying to find a new job so I may not be able to jump on as often as I'd like.

I'm going to try and help continue our political reform and stuff over this weekend. Hoffmann Kunarian TALK 16:08, January 17, 2015 (UTC)


 * @Ǻs: you remind me terribly much of the Limburgish head-idiot :o
 * @Kun: welcome back and congratulations! :)
 * @Linguistics: maybe we could work on Bredish, though we'd probably need to ask Cadaro first :o --QytokantFRÅGOR??? 20:49, January 17, 2015 (UTC)
 * Congratulations. Now Cadaro isn't active so I'm sure we can work on Bredish, even if it is just working on literary figures, written material and such. At the same time we can work on other things, like I suggested above. Something to do with the geopolitical sphere would be good to do, especially if it links other wikinations. Something we've discussed over in Brunant here has been a new IWO, a European wikination organization and a potential (hypothetical) common currency. Even if none of this comes to fruition, the discussion can also help bring activity to not just Lovia.  HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 21:42, January 17, 2015 (UTC)
 * That's a good idea. In Greece they arrested some people that are connected to the Belgium terrorists and we can make something similar. Traspes - Dianna Bartol LOGO POSITIVE BLOCK.png 02:20, January 18, 2015 (UTC)
 * Sure, I'll dop something as Prem and minister of Def. Hoffmann LogoCNP2wt.png Kunarian TALK 12:15, January 18, 2015 (UTC)
 * I feel at this point that Lovia is a more or less completed project and attempts to revive activity are just scraping the barrel. I don't know if any of you share this opinion.


 * The very best of wishes to you Kunarian. Good luck with the job and I hope everything turns out ok. --Semyon 17:46, January 19, 2015 (UTC)

House
If anyone is looking to make themselves a new house I could help out. As long as It's a modern/contemporary design and not massive I can make a 3d model of it. HORTON11 : •  21:30, January 19, 2015 (UTC)



BREAKING NEWS
Brunanter Police have raided a house in Dortmund (Koningstad) reportedly housing suspected terrorists/extremists. A minor shootout ensued with three suspects later arrested. News reports in Traspes are confirming that one of the suspects behind the train bombing in Alcacer was the target of the raid, though there is no confirmation if he was detained among the three. HORTON11 : •  17:33, January 20, 2015 (UTC)

Hey!
Just wanted to drop into Lovia quickly to say hi! I know I haven't been active in ages, but I thought I'd just log on today to see what's been going on in Lovia lately.

As much as I'd like to hang around to help out with getting the wiki active again, I'm going to be mega busy over the next few months and can't see myself being very active. So good luck to you all, especially Happy who's succeeding me as Governor of Kings Frijoles333 TALK 18:22, January 31, 2015 (UTC)
 * Hahah, hey. Of course you are always welcome for minor edits from time to time ;) --O u WTB 19:14, January 31, 2015 (UTC)

Dutchies (or anyone who knows),
Do you guys know why there is a blurry military pattern over an area of the Netherlands. It's an airbase rear Uden (close to 's-Hertogenbosch) and it's the first place I've come across like it. HORTON11 : •  19:09, February 11, 2015 (UTC)
 * There's a military base there :P --QytokantFRÅGOR??? 19:15, February 11, 2015 (UTC)
 * I know it's an airbase, but why is THAT one blurred out. For example Leeuwarden Air Base in Keegsdijkje is perfectly visible. HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 19:19, February 11, 2015 (UTC)
 * The Brabantic military doesn't lack brains, unlike the Frisians :P --QytokantFRÅGOR??? 19:21, February 11, 2015 (UTC)
 * According to wikipedia, you can find nuclear weapons there. HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 19:24, February 11, 2015 (UTC)
 * Qytokant the Brabantics are known drunkards who know nothing of military affairs. Their primary talent is the enjoyment of life, whereas the Frisians are a nation of stoics inside whom houses a million little Clint Eastwoods.
 * Tsss... Everyone knows Limburgish people are even racially superior though :o --O u WTB 04:16, February 12, 2015 (UTC)
 * Good afternoon, Geert :P --QytokantFRÅGOR??? 13:52, February 12, 2015 (UTC)
 * All three of you are wrong. The Flemish are better. Who but the Flemish could keep a country over 1 year without a government? It takes quite something to do that, and the Frisians, Brabantics and Limburgish could never stand up to Rutte. HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 14:38, February 13, 2015 (UTC)
 * The Flemish are impossible to rule because they're worse than idiots. Rutte is an IRL politician, therefore also worse than an idiot :P --QytokantFRÅGOR??? 15:23, February 13, 2015 (UTC)
 * Well, the Limburgish Gouvernment is quite good at disagreeing too; the only problem is they can't decide when to hold elections, so they're stuck with the same composition for four years and nothing gets done :P --O u WTB 15:27, February 13, 2015 (UTC)
 * Does that contradict any of that which I said though? :o --QytokantFRÅGOR??? 15:31, February 13, 2015 (UTC)
 * And who says impossible to rule is being idiots. I call that outsmarting all. HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 16:18, February 13, 2015 (UTC)
 * Qytokant, I don't think you get the essence though :o --O u WTB 16:21, February 13, 2015 (UTC)
 * You mean that takavíhki idiots can also have a non-functioning government rather than none at all? :o --QytokantFRÅGOR??? 17:01, February 13, 2015 (UTC)
 * We are nationally known to have the most corrupt policians though :o Verheijen, Van Rey, Dré Peeters, Wilders, Dion Graus, etc :P --O u WTB 09:23, February 14, 2015 (UTC)
 * And you call us an Apenland :P HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 16:15, February 14, 2015 (UTC)
 * :o --O u WTB 10:05, February 15, 2015 (UTC)

Revolution
Anybody up for another revolution?

Just kidding. After four years of inactivity, I was quite interested to see what changed here. Good to see old and new faces. Enjoy your time here, take care of Lovia. Farewell. Bucu 10:56, February 16, 2015 (UTC)

Travel contest
Who here on the wiki has traveled the most? Add the countries you've visited (no airports unless you get out and are at least 1 hour inside that country). I beleive I've been to 17. HORTON11 : •  20:43, March 2, 2015 (UTC)



I went to Spain, France, Italy, Canada, USA. Also, do I need to create the map?? Traspes - Dianna Bartol

And also Vatican, in 2008. Traspes - Dianna Bartol 02:11, March 3, 2015 (UTC)

Hahaha, I'm probably gonna end up last :P Been to Netherlands, Limburg (:P), Belgium, Luxembourg, Germany, France, Italy, Switzerland, Austria, Slovakia, Denmark, Monaco, and Sweden. --O u WTB 12:18, March 3, 2015 (UTC)

Not counting Limburg, you're second. Counting Limburg, I've also been to Vlaams, Quebec and Brunant :P HORTON11 :  •  14:15, March 3, 2015 (UTC)

Sweden, Netherlands, Austria, Switserland, Luxembourg, Germany, Belgium, Denmark, Norway, France, UK, Argentina and a few hours at an airport in Chile :P --QytokantFRÅGOR??? 15:29, March 3, 2015 (UTC)

Israel, Ukraine, DNR, LNR, Russia, Belarus, Poland, Czech Republic, USA, Brazil, Germany, France and the Lowlands. :P

Most of these I visited being a child and some of these were actually good o: -- DAH BUY000R! (wall | crimes)

Yeah, airports don't really count, unless you've gone out and actually done something in that country. HORTON11 : •  14:01, March 4, 2015 (UTC)

I went out of something and ate lunch while still being in Chile :o --QytokantFRÅGOR??? 14:31, March 4, 2015 (UTC)

Still, an airport doesn't really count. The time I was at Mexico City we actually went out of the airport, saw some sights in the city and spent the night at the hotel. HORTON11 : •  15:32, March 4, 2015 (UTC)

I won't provide the full list, but I'm ahead of all of you. Though I haven't been to any disputed territories, like Limburg, yet. :P --Semyon 17:45, March 7, 2015 (UTC)

I also went to 33 other countries, but I'm not going to post them :P HORTON11 :  •  17:53, March 7, 2015 (UTC)

Yes, I thought that might be the case. :P Personally, I'm writing this comment from Antarctica; the internet connection is surprisingly good. --Semyon 18:06, March 7, 2015 (UTC)

Just for the record, I have been in Limburg. And of course also in Gèssel :P --QytokantFRÅGOR??? 19:35, March 7, 2015 (UTC)

Okay, let me see: (and a couple of other countries where I've only visited the airports) 77topaz (talk) 09:56, March 8, 2015 (UTC)
 * 1) Netherlands
 * 2) Belgium
 * 3) Germany
 * 4) Australia
 * 5) New Zealand
 * 6) Spain
 * 7) France
 * 8) Denmark
 * 9) United Kingdom
 * 10) United Arab Emirates

It's interesting how few people have been to Asian countries; also, we've lost our Americans. --Semyon 22:11, March 16, 2015 (UTC)

Well you have half an American here :P HORTON11 :  •  17:04, March 17, 2015 (UTC)

I was aware, but I don't count you. :P --Semyon 18:34, March 17, 2015 (UTC)



For comparison this is where my parents have been. Legend: Red is mom, blue is dad and yellow is both. HORTON11 : •  18:37, April 8, 2015 (UTC)

Both of them are diplomats, right? Also: I just noticed New Zealand is largely cut off by the edge of that map. :/ 77topaz (talk) 20:10, April 8, 2015 (UTC)


 * Technically yeah. They mostly work or have worked with IGOs, NGOs or government projects. Some of the more exotic ones are also tourism. HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 21:00, April 8, 2015 (UTC)




 * Since Horton started this up again, here's mine, made with some random funky website Frijoles333 TALK 20:49, April 8, 2015 (UTC)
 * Cool, Estonia. How many countries is those? HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 21:00, April 8, 2015 (UTC)
 * I thought I was weird for thinking Estonia was the most interesting one of those. :P --Semyon 21:08, April 8, 2015 (UTC)
 * Estonia's out of the way and not a huge tourist destination, and for example Turkey is a much more popular tourist destination and less "exotic"/mystical than in the past. HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 21:13, April 8, 2015 (UTC)

IWO council
You guys think we should set this up? And do you think it should be just 1 or 2 members per country or would you want a Europarl sort of thing? HORTON11 : •  15:22, March 6, 2015 (UTC)
 * If we'd do a Europarlement, Brunant will get a lot of influence though :P --O u WTB 16:05, March 6, 2015 (UTC)
 * If we went with proportional to population, then it'd be Traspes and Libertas, as they have the biggest population. We can always do a digressive thing, where lower-population countries are rounded up and larger ones would be rounded down. Personally I think it'd be cool to have a legislature with the different wikination political parties. HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 17:03, March 6, 2015 (UTC)
 * How about this: <200,000 people, 1 seat per 30,000 people; 200,001-700,000, 1 seat per 50,000; 700,001 to 1,4 million, 1 seat per 80,000; 1.4 million<, 1 seat per 100,000 people. HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 17:12, March 6, 2015 (UTC)
 * So in this plan, Traspes will get 14 seats and Juliana 3/4?? Traspes - Dianna Bartol LOGO POSITIVE BLOCK.png 03:01, March 7, 2015 (UTC)
 * That wouldn't work, I agree. Perhaps it would be better to set a minimum. Let's say all countries get at least 7 seats. Countries will get one seat per 50.000. So, we will get:
 * Brunant: 22
 * Inselöarna: 7
 * Libertas: 30
 * Lovia: 7
 * Mäöres: 7
 * etc. The only flaw in this is that countries like Libertas may be biggest, they are also awfully inactive... To me it doesn't sound fair to give an inactive country that much representation. --O u WTB 10:42, March 7, 2015 (UTC)
 * Maybe we should also set a maximum and give less seats to inactive nations. The latter is of course quite difficult as activity varies over time, but we could look at general trends and make a three-way distinction between "always active" (e.g. Lovia), "sometimes active" (e.g. Mäöres) and "inactive" (e.g. Libertas). --QytokantFRÅGOR??? 10:50, March 7, 2015 (UTC)
 * Well Libertas is occasionally active, but still not high enough. The Maximum idea sounds good, and we can simply move inactive countries down a tier. Using 50,000 per seats won't be that good for smaller nations, as Lovia would get 4-5 seats. HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 15:47, March 7, 2015 (UTC)
 * Maybe we should just fully ignore population numbers and only look at activity (number of active users etc.). --O u WTB 17:58, March 7, 2015 (UTC)
 * We'd need a way that considers both activity AND population. What would you suggest? HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 18:05, March 7, 2015 (UTC)
 * Seats proportional to the number of edits in the last year? --Semyon 18:07, March 7, 2015 (UTC)
 * Wouldn't that be a little... hard to calculate? -- DAH BUY000R! (wall | crimes)
 * Or am I missing some "important feature" that lists something related. Forgive the newb in that case. -- DAH BUY000R! (wall | crimes)
 * No, it's a good question. It's definitely possible to extract that information, but it might not be easy. This page contains a lot of other useful and related information that could be used as a metric instead, though. --Semyon 18:26, March 7, 2015 (UTC)
 * Edit: this was the page I intended to link to, sorry. --Semyon 18:27, March 7, 2015 (UTC)
 * Edits should be included, but with population also in consideration. HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 18:28, March 7, 2015 (UTC)
 * However, including population would give Brunant many more seats, even though they have fewer editors, and arguably, fewer politically-inclined editors in particular. Still, it doesn't really matter if this is just for fun and not intended to create many binding laws. --Semyon 18:40, March 7, 2015 (UTC)
 * Well it's part of the realism to this, and it's not like we're gonna pass anything massive, it's more for the fun of seeing the spectrum of IWO nations' parties in one room. HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 18:46, March 7, 2015 (UTC)
 * A proposal: take the population, divide it by 1000, take the natural logarithm of that (@non-mathematicians: that'll give 3.9 seats for 50,000 inhabitants and 7.6 for 2 million :P). That obviously has to be rounded, and then active nations get a bonus. And maybe add a few seats by default. This way big nations won't get ridiculously many seats compared to the smaller ones. What do you guys think of it? :P --QytokantFRÅGOR??? 20:00, March 9, 2015 (UTC)

I was thinking there shouldn't be too large of a difference between the large and small nations. My plan involves allocating 50 seats, rising by 25 max every year for new nations.

Lovia: 9 seats Brunant: 9 seats Libertas: 6 seats Insel Islands: 6 seats Traspes: 6 seats Kemburg: 5 seats Máores: 5 seats Granovia: 4 seats

Although Granovia is not a IWO member, it is one of the most active wikinations at the moment. Happy65 20:58, March 9, 2015 (UTC)
 * Since Granovia is a very new wikination I think we should wait with saying that it's "one of the most active wikinations" as that's rather normal for new wikinations. It might well be that it'll be dead in a few weeks. --QytokantFRÅGOR??? 07:07, March 10, 2015 (UTC)
 * I like your idea Qyto. You think you could work out the seating arrangement for the countries? Granovia could not yet be a full member due to not meetign the 100 page requirement. One thing we could do as well would be to give 1-2 seats to associate member states. HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 13:17, March 10, 2015 (UTC)
 * Sure, I'll do that :) --QytokantFRÅGOR??? 07:24, March 11, 2015 (UTC)

I've done the calculations, but ignored the activity bonus so far: --QytokantFRÅGOR??? 09:59, March 11, 2015 (UTC)
 * Brunant: 7 seats
 * Inselöarna: 5 seats
 * Libertas: 7 seats
 * Lovia: 5 seats
 * Mäöres: 4 seats
 * Traspes: 7 seats


 * That actually looks very good. Would we include Juliana in that? And what do you think would be good bonuses? HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 13:30, March 11, 2015 (UTC)
 * Thanks :) Juliana isn't a full member yet :P I think the bonuses should be based on the number of contributors. I'm not sure about the exact formula yet, but the bonuses shouldn't be too big, like 1 or 2 seats or something. --QytokantFRÅGOR??? 10:12, March 14, 2015 (UTC)
 * Yeah, that should be good. Once you get the formula please do share. HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 13:54, March 14, 2015 (UTC)

To be honest, Lovia is once again (and has been for most of the last 3-4 years) the most active wikination. I think it should at least be joint-first on seat allocation. Lovia is also the basis of the IWO, although officially it is not headquartered there (a little like Germany in the EU). Happy65 15:31, March 16, 2015 (UTC)


 * Well population-wise it it nearly 1/5 the population of Brunant, and more than 1 million less people than Traspes and Libertas. And with bonus seating we'd get a few more here. HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 16:20, March 16, 2015 (UTC)

Allright, I've made a formula (for those interested: it's the natural logarithm of the average number of contributors in all namespaces per month, calculated over the last twelve months, the outcome of course being rounded afterwards). It turns out that a wiki has to be ridiculously dead to not receive any bonus this way, but that doesn't really matter as it's mostly about distinguishing active nations from inactive ones, which it does well enough. Anyway, the numbers:

What do you think? :P --QytokantFRÅGOR??? 19:58, March 16, 2015 (UTC)

Sounds great, and looks great too :P HORTON11 :  •  21:06, March 16, 2015 (UTC)

So guys, we gonna go with this proposal? My brains and Kito's math have created something wonderful :P HORTON11 :  •  15:47, March 18, 2015 (UTC)

Let's have a pitipàna :P --QytokantFRÅGOR??? 18:45, March 18, 2015 (UTC)

I agree with Qyotkant's great proposal... oh, and would we have IWO parliament alliances of parties? ( so all the social democratic parties from the member states would form an alliance, all the conservative ones would form their own alliance etc.) Frijoles333 TALK 19:14, March 19, 2015 (UTC)


 * Yes, that would be the point. HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 21:28, March 19, 2015 (UTC)


 * Since a majority voted pro, I think we should accept it :P --QytokantFRÅGOR??? 15:01, March 21, 2015 (UTC)
 * Yes. If we can have this passed it would be a great accomplishment of both you and I together. HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 15:04, March 21, 2015 (UTC)

Should we divide the seats in the IWO council according to Qytokant's great proposal? Yes No

Interactive map
You guys ever seen those? It's the perfect solution to the unrealisticness of our wiki maps. Happy came up with the idea and we're working on one in Cettatie here. HORTON11 : •  16:51, March 13, 2015 (UTC)
 * How does it work? --O u WTB 09:37, March 14, 2015 (UTC)


 * I did come up with the idea. Basically it's like a google maps map, but you can drop pointers to add restaurants, homes. It's a nice little feature that admins can enable. Happy65 11:56, March 14, 2015 (UTC)

They look great! How did you make them? I'm back by the way, at least for now... the lure of Lovia proved too much, especially with all this talk of new wikinations and an IWO parliament Frijoles333 TALK 15:25, March 14, 2015 (UTC)

Well it's a maps feature. I had tried to experiment with those before but happy got this one started. The only thing is that the pic for the Cettatie map is small so it hasn't turned out as great. HORTON11 : •  15:37, March 14, 2015 (UTC)

Oh, and welcome back. Hope you stick around in Lovia, Brunant and Prasia. HORTON11 : •  15:41, March 14, 2015 (UTC)

Ok, I've added an improved version here. The map is less focused as it's been enlarged but the map pins are transparent and it's less cluttered. HORTON11 : •  16:50, March 14, 2015 (UTC)

In other news, we have 72 pages in Cettatie! HORTON11 : •  15:13, March 15, 2015 (UTC)

An introduction ( for some... )
Hello! I am Sithlent (AKA Suite6677 in other places ) and I have created these articles:

James Darling

The Friday Night Show (W.I.P.)

...and a few other non-made ones!

I have also edited a few articles too:

Kaboom Media Group

Kaboom TV

Hope you enjoy!

Sithlent (talk) 22:42, March 15, 2015 (UTC)Sithlent, AKA Suite
 * Very good articles, thank you! Hope you enjoy your stay here :) --O u WTB 09:40, March 16, 2015 (UTC)

Hello Lovians
Kunarian re-assured me that he will work on the National Constitutional Convention as swiftly as possible, however I have seen no action take place. As much as I feel as this Convention could do good for Lovia, it hasn't been worked on. Does anyone want the waaaaay overdue federal elections now? Please respond as soon as possible. We most ensure that Lovians are given a fair and democratic election. Happy65 17:08, March 17, 2015 (UTC)


 * Seems to be about time. Activity is starting to pick up and we could use a new (active) government and PM to help advance Lovia. HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 17:11, March 17, 2015 (UTC)
 * Personally, I think Lovia should become a dictatorship. --Semyon 18:35, March 17, 2015 (UTC)
 * Now, now, Semyon, do we really want Lovia to beat Tagog's ass at authoritarianism :P HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 18:56, March 17, 2015 (UTC)
 * Competition isn't necessary. A nice little alliance, though, would be just the ticket. --Semyon 18:59, March 17, 2015 (UTC)
 * Yes, let's have a military coup and install undead Semyon Breyev as the leader. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 00:32, March 20, 2015 (UTC)
 * It's time to be a republic everybody! Aina Sarria can be the leader and Republican Initiative can be the voice! Traspes - Dianna Bartol LOGO POSITIVE BLOCK.png 01:09, March 20, 2015 (UTC)
 * You could easily get into power through these elections, the amount of active users on the wiki has fallen heavily. Happy65 15:27, March 20, 2015 (UTC)
 * Hah, TM has the right kind of ideas. :P 'Comrade Semyon Breyev, Eternal President of the Republic of Lovia' would be a suitable title, I think. I certainly wouldn't oppose a little more bombasticism in Lovian politics. --Semyon 15:30, March 20, 2015 (UTC)
 * If this happens, I assume you understand Oshenna's gonna declare its independence again :P --O u WTB 15:55, March 20, 2015 (UTC)
 * Well, if that happens, I think Anna Maria might start another civil war. :P --Semyon 15:57, March 20, 2015 (UTC)
 * A thaink she gon' git a shot in the head :o --O u WTB 16:03, March 20, 2015 (UTC)
 * 'Sintol'rable t' be threa'n'd wi'the death like this. :o --Semyon 16:05, March 20, 2015 (UTC)
 * Ya dunnow a crap 'bout intoleraince, I'm gon' tell ya. Ya better keep y'r mouth shut or I'll shut in y'r head :o --O u WTB 16:21, March 20, 2015 (UTC)
 * 'Fyou don' upshut pr'y smar'ish I'll be t' S'preme Court wi' ya. --Semyon 16:23, March 20, 2015 (UTC)
 * Obbusly, ya dunnow a thaing 'bout what ya b'n don' tawkin' 'bout right now. If I'm gon' git the judge, ya know I'm right an' not you. --O u WTB 16:25, March 20, 2015 (UTC)
 * I won' 'ave y'in'fering wi' legi'mate jud'shal 'quiries. :o 'Sgraceful, 'swha'sis. I won' 'ave no war crim'nal tr'umping 'ver in'cent battlers f'justice. T'ell wi' ya an' ya r'acshunry rub'sh; I ain' scared 'fya one li'l bi'. --Semyon 16:30, March 20, 2015 (UTC)
 * I'm gon' git ma rifle an' shute y'r brains ou' 's wha' I'm gon' do 'ready? So ya better not interfere with ma buzniss or ya find y'rself in sum big trouble an' mess wha' I'm say'n' de you. --O u WTB 16:35, March 20, 2015 (UTC)
 * Well I think's 'sgraceful. You get ya rifle ou' an' you'll see one poin'ing back a' ya right sharp'sh. We'll ba'l on streets 'f'Banova 'til ya filfy 'dol'gy's trampled down t'the mud. 'fHeretow's scared 'e can back ou' when'v'r 'e wan's. Things'll change 'n 'Shenna 'fore ya can say Anna M'ria Whithdonck Malsky. --Semyon 16:41, March 20, 2015 (UTC)
 * I'm gon' bring so much bullet de y'r face you ain' able de be seen 't was who. I'm gon' turn y'r body into pieces 'v meat so I c'n do ma barbecue when I'm don' shutin' you. I ain' afraid. You gon' git y'r gun an' we'll see who' the stronger one 'v us. But I bit I c'n till ya, tha's me an' it ain' you, cuz y'ain' got no time in gittin' y'r rifle in time 'fore I shute down ya de the ground... --O u WTB 16:47, March 20, 2015 (UTC)
 * Ya cambal, y'ain' barb'king no lawful prot'ster. 'Sgraphic vi'len' im'g'ry ain' nuffink I 'spected from t'leader 'fCCPL. Ya wan' war le's 'ave war. Ya wan' bulletfacin' le's 'ave bulletfacin'. Ya wan' barb'king an' gru'some war crimes le's 'ave th'lo'. Bu' th'cause 'fjustice'll prevale 'gains' ya blooddrippin' sceptre. --Semyon 16:53, March 20, 2015 (UTC)
 * I thaink ya just made me cra :'( --O u WTB 17:38, March 20, 2015 (UTC)
 * Ya think ya bin sad'fied, jus' ya wai'. 'Lections'll show ya what the people really think. --Semyon 17:55, March 20, 2015 (UTC)

Plis dånt spik sötj strejndj dajeläckts :'( --QytokantFRÅGOR??? 15:02, March 21, 2015 (UTC)

Elections
Elections are coming up in the near-future and I have a question to ask, should we follow each letter of the constitution and stick with one month nomination and election periods, or given we have fewer active users should we streamline the process and have two weeks for nominations and elections?

Pro 2 month process (current constitutional style)

 * Hoffmann LogoCNP2wt.png Kunarian TALK 17:38, March 20, 2015 (UTC)
 * --O u WTB 18:04, March 20, 2015 (UTC) Kunar's got a point.
 * Happy65 18:05, March 20, 2015 (UTC) Not following the constitution has caused too many disasters, so we should follow it.
 * --Semyon 18:18, March 20, 2015 (UTC)
 * --QytokantFRÅGOR??? 15:02, March 21, 2015 (UTC)

Discussion
Please do discuss. HORTON11 : •  17:36, March 20, 2015 (UTC)

We need the current constitutional style of one month for nominations and one for voting because we need time to debate and put forward policies. Or else we'll be a short term government that will run out of steam. Hoffmann Kunarian TALK 17:45, March 20, 2015 (UTC)

We've been short term government for quite a while it seems. Little good has been achieved in the past year it seems. New elections should solve that though. HORTON11 : •  17:48, March 20, 2015 (UTC)

Much discussion is currently going on in the chat. To summarise for the benefit of later readers/posterity: the consensus is that we will hold elections according to the constitution. The first business of the new Congress will be to discuss constitutional reform, using the work of the Convention as a base. --Semyon 17:52, March 20, 2015 (UTC)

Debates
Poolmedia would like to invite all party leaders to show an interest in doing three election debates. These will be round table debates where the leaders will be asked to put forward their visions on how Lovia should be run and what the post-election Lovia should look like.

The election debates will be on the 28th March, 4th April and a final debate on the 11th April. We will invite the leaders of the four largest parties from the previous election and any other party leaders will be prioritised for interviews.

CCPL, CNP, GP, RI and UL will all have a place in these debates provided their leaders show an interest.

If you are interested please state so below. Hoffmann Kunarian TALK 22:59, March 20, 2015 (UTC)

Interviews
Poolmedia would like to invite all party leaders and those standing as independents to put themselves forwards for interviews with the Lovian Times and Lovian Financial Times. These interviews would cover one question about what kind of Lovia the interviewee would like to see, three topical questions and two questions on topics of the interviewees suggestion.

If you are interested please state so below. Hoffmann Kunarian TALK 22:59, March 20, 2015 (UTC)

Comments
Republican Initiative was not invited. This isn't good. All parties, boycott because this debate is biased against the republicans of Lovia and the little parties. I am important enough to be listened to and I hope that the other parties can see this and share the voice of the minorities in the government. Traspes - Dianna Bartol 01:44, March 21, 2015 (UTC)

And on top of it, the organizer of the debate is the leader of CNP. It will not be a 100% even debate and there can be prejudice in the debate. Traspes - Dianna Bartol 02:16, March 21, 2015 (UTC)

The debate is for the major parties that took part in previous elections. Feel free to boycott it but you could have simply asked to take part in them. Further the interviews were meant to balance it out. And on the matter of me being the leader of the CNP, I am not the leader of the CNP, Lukas Hoffmann is. I am organising these debates and interviews so that we have debates and interviews for the election so that things are more open and on the table.

I would be eager to see you explain how I could prejudicially influence the debate when it will be the people deciding the topics and questions being as basic as possible to encourage leaders to elaborate and explain their own views.

Again if you wish you can be included in the debates. However I simply took the active parties and listed them there. So don't jump the gun. Hoffmann Kunarian TALK 03:17, March 21, 2015 (UTC)

I don't think so. It looks like it was prejudice and I still will boycott the debates, because especially it won't be a 100% neutral debate. Traspes - Dianna Bartol 03:22, March 21, 2015 (UTC)

You still haven't explained how it was prejudice or how the debate will not be neutral. Feel free to boycott it or not. You are still invited. Hoffmann Kunarian TALK 03:24, March 21, 2015 (UTC)

You are organizing the debate and you're party is in the debate. It is not completely neutral and I already have the support from user 77topaz. If you wanted it to be a good debate the host of the debate will be completely neutral and not in a party. And it was prejudice because you said that only the 4 parties will be invited and you didn't even mention that the independents and the minorities can be invited. Traspes - Dianna Bartol 03:29, March 21, 2015 (UTC)

I am organising the debate. There is a difference between organising and managing. Organising is getting everything together while management is the actual on the day managing the politicians bit that you seem to think I am going to be using to be bias. The management of the debate could be left to the politicians taking part as a whole, trusting them to act well as part of a good faith agreement. Or we could leave it to Semyon, who is a clever, experienced and capable person who could easily manage the debate but that would require his agreement.

So once again, you're jumping the gun and trying to hype this up claiming prejudice against independents and minorities. I'd like to have a reasonable debate between the people who will most likely form the government in one shape or another. That is what the debate is for. It was clearly stated that those that aren't included but want their views spread will be prioritised for interviews which will be published in one of the most read newspapers in the country.

I'd like you to be included but if you don't and if what you say is true and the Green Party does not wish to be included then this is a sad day that you would deny Lovians a chance to see all parties assembled and talk about what they feel is best for Lovia. Hoffmann Kunarian TALK 04:06, March 21, 2015 (UTC)

I do think debates are a good idea, but also that Traspes has a good point about having a nonpartisan host. 77topaz (talk) 04:08, March 21, 2015 (UTC)
 * Of course and I'm completely fine with that. I originally planned to have no host and let politicians debate like adults. However if people feel a neutral party is needed then I will happily seek one. However there is a very real prospect we will not find a neutral host to everyone's standards and in that situation I would hope we could proceed and debate maturely rather than boycotting and denying all Lovians a real chance to see everyone's views side by side. Hoffmann LogoCNP2wt.png Kunarian TALK 04:24, March 21, 2015 (UTC)
 * If there is a neutral host that, it's better. But from the beginning you didn't include RI, neutral people and the other small parties that could be in the elections and that is a mistake. Republican Initiative is never going to get the majority, but you still should allow it to have a voice. Traspes - Dianna Bartol LOGO POSITIVE BLOCK.png 04:42, March 21, 2015 (UTC)
 * And what is your idea for making the questions of the debate?? Traspes - Dianna Bartol LOGO POSITIVE BLOCK.png 04:43, March 21, 2015 (UTC)
 * We should definitely hear from ALL parties and candidates in the debate. How can voters make their minds up when they're not given a chance to hear about the ideas of all parties? I also think a neutral host would be a good idea, and as I'm not planning on participating in the election, I would be more than happy to be the debate's nonpartisan host Frijoles333 TALK 10:08, March 21, 2015 (UTC)


 * Completely agree with the above. Happy65 10:15, March 21, 2015 (UTC)
 * We could and should honestly have two debates then. I know Frijoles would make a good host  alongside Semyon, and both should be given the opportunity to host debates. HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 14:07, March 21, 2015 (UTC)

New article!
Here's a new article I made:

Kings of Lovia

Hope you enjoy it!

Sithlent (talk) 00:22, March 21, 2015 (UTC)Suite
 * Very good! :) --O u WTB 10:06, March 21, 2015 (UTC)

Republican Initiative


Lovia needs change. The pervious government was very inactive and the Constitutional Convention was a massive failure. Lovia needs a good leader and party to make active change. Republican Initiative can bring more autonomy to distinctive states and regions. Republican Initiative can more jobs by helping the youth, the immigrants and disabled. Republican Initiative can make a more democratic Lovia.

Republican Initiative is a bold and different choice. But if you want a bold and better future in Lovia, you can make the choice. Traspes - Dianna Bartol 02:10, March 21, 2015 (UTC)

The constitutional convention was not a failure, it's produced many useful points of debate and most people agree it will be used to assist in constitutional reform following the election. Additionally Republican Initiative seems very lacking in distinction. Almost everyone agrees we need more autonomy, everybody wants more jobs and everyone wants democracy.

Detail is important, at the moment there's no reason (other than republicanism) why anyone should vote RI over UL, CCPL or CNP. Hoffmann Kunarian TALK 03:20, March 21, 2015 (UTC)

The constitutional convention was a failure because nothing succeded. It was too big and it was most of it your ideas and your way. Republican Initiative has a distinction. It's a different and unique party that has specific plans for assisting minorities to have jobs and to be more democratic by proposing to be a republic, with directly electing a President. There is more reasons for people voting Republican Initiative, Kunarian. Republican initiative isn't going to be a party that only pretends to care about the 98% of the people and it isn't a party that is going to only exsist so the companies can be more rich. It's truly an alternative. Traspes - Dianna Bartol 03:27, March 21, 2015 (UTC)

If it was most of my ideas that was only because people like you did not put yourself forwards to be involved.

Also if you want to abolish the monarchy then I am pretty sure we do not need a president who will ask for a pay packet and staff much larger than the King. If the Monarchy goes we can have our Congress and Prime Minister, no need for a president at all.

Also saying things like "Republican initiative isn't going to be a party that only pretends to care about the 98% of the people and it isn't a party that is going to only exsist so the companies can be more rich" which mean absolutely nothing isn't going to win you votes. Especially if you are directing them at the CNP.

The CNP was the first party to introduce a form of universal healthcare and supports making this national universal healthcare. The CNP has constantly opposed any sort of trickle down taxes on the poorest. The CNP has and continues to support introducing anti-monopoly legislation to deal with overarching companies that dominate certain sectors. The CNP has and continues to support introducing regulation on the banking sector to protect aggressive practices that prey on those who lack detailed knowledge of banking. The CNP has and continues to support introducing the ability to dissolve abusive businesses that treat workers poorly. I could go on.

These are policies. Not generic statements. Vote CNP and you know what you are voting for. Hoffmann Kunarian TALK 03:55, March 21, 2015 (UTC)

One possibility would be to directly make the head of the government (the Prime Minister) the head of state as well, thereby combining the two roles into one and lowering costs. 77topaz (talk) 04:01, March 21, 2015 (UTC)
 * Exactly, but it would be a shock to see RI withdraw such a policy so early. Hoffmann LogoCNP2wt.png Kunarian TALK 04:18, March 21, 2015 (UTC)

But have you actually done any of those promises?? I will do the things that I want to do to actually improve Lovia, not only to say so you can get the credit. You, and many others just fight and argue and do things only so you can get credit and recognition. What I want to do is not for me to be famous and popular, I don't care who is the leader but at least if we can improve things it is the only goal of RI. CNP is too much about CNP and even UL is too much about UL. RI is not about RI but instead about the Lovians. I can have a different logo, different name but still it will work to the same purposes to only improve the country. Traspes - Dianna Bartol 04:07, March 21, 2015 (UTC)
 * Yes I have fulfilled many of my promises, despite being only in control of a fifth of Congress most of the time. And in Sylvania where I had complete control I introduced the universal healthcare and fire service as well as water and waste treatment. In Congress I worked with the CCPL to create a much wider reaching and flexible education law that allows states to manage more of their school system and allows independent schools to be set up easily.


 * And you do talk a lot of hot air. You say that CNP is about CNP and UL is about UL but you've not talked about what you specifically want done and deride the actual achievements of parties like the CNP and UL. UL and the CNP have both actually done things and work together a lot of the time to ensure that laws are in the interest of all rather than minorities.


 * It'd be good to hear about your specific beliefs before you start trying to criticise experienced parties that have already worked to the public good for years when you have only just popped onto the scene. Hoffmann LogoCNP2wt.png Kunarian TALK 04:18, March 21, 2015 (UTC)

But the Prime Minister is not a elected person by the people. It is more democratic for the people if they can choose their leader. Traspes - Dianna Bartol


 * For some of the elections, the Prime Minister has simply been the leader of the most popular party/coalition; we could use such a system again. 77topaz (talk) 04:39, March 21, 2015 (UTC)

You did do a lot, and UL I see. But you were completely inactive previously and nothing was done. I am new but it doesn't mean I'm a worse person and without experience. I will propose specific projects that really will help the people. Traspes - Dianna Bartol 04:31, March 21, 2015 (UTC)
 * No you being new does not make you a worse person, I just point out that you must be careful to criticise entire records of parties going back years without the proper knowledge to do so. I look forwards to your proposals and hope to see a full and voluptuous RI manifesto before voting begins. Hoffmann LogoCNP2wt.png Kunarian TALK 04:35, March 21, 2015 (UTC)
 * Yes, but don't try and criticise my ideas before you actually see all of the details. You are just making it ery difficult for the new people. You said why anybody would vote for RI apart from republicanism and that is completely incorrect. Traspes - Dianna Bartol LOGO POSITIVE BLOCK.png 04:40, March 21, 2015 (UTC)
 * Then don't launch a campaign without having your details sorted out. I would never do that. I have never done that. I admit I can be hard but I do it for your benefit. After this you will hopefully go and write out a full set of ideas and policies which you will be able to use for the next year that you are in Congress. This will benefit you because everybody will know what you stand for and it will benefit Lovia because you will have a varied and wide set of thought out ideas to try and implement over the next year, creating activity. As I've said, I look forwards to your manifesto and I'm sure your various supporters do too. Hoffmann LogoCNP2wt.png Kunarian TALK 08:59, March 22, 2015 (UTC)

It certainly is a bold choice to vote republican, considering all the bad publicity and reputation they've historically had. Now Traspes, posposing concrete points will be key not only to defend your arguments but especially to show potential voters what it is you will do. Now Kunarian, I am actually shocked and find it beneath you on that comment that the only reason people would vote RI is republicanism. Do people vote Green just for environmentalism? Do people vote CCPL for only the Christian morals? I really think not and denigrating a particular party and viewpoints (republicanism) while initially not including them in multi-party debates could be seen as having some sort of bias against them. HORTON11 : •  14:44, March 21, 2015 (UTC)
 * You are shocked that I am suggesting that this poster and small attached comment is a poor start to a campaign? you shouldn't be. It gives literally nothing other than some vague comment on states and regions, youth, immigrants and disabled and democracy. And I did not denigrate Republicanism, it is a perfectly valid view and I'd like you to point out where I denigrated it. And I didn't exclude them from the debates, I simply didn't list them because they didn't come to mind. As soon as they pointed this out I said that they should be included. That puts to rest your childish hysteria about bias against them. Hoffmann LogoCNP2wt.png Kunarian TALK 08:54, March 22, 2015 (UTC)

I'm seriously considering supporting RI in the next election! I genuinely believe that the party can offer change and fresh ideas. And Kunarian, I'm not just supporting for them because I support republicanism, but because I believe they are better suited than many parties (the CNP included) to making Lovia a fairer, more active society. Also, don't criticise Traspes for not having any concrete policies, the party is still young and I'm sure we'll hear about all of RI's ideas in due course. At least Traspes has been a very active member of the wiki over the past months, whilst you've been hardly active, and your so called Constitutional Convention has been all talk and no action.

Yes, the CNP has done some very good work in the past, I'm not going to deny that... but I'm growing rather disillusioned with your party as a whole. It's time for change and new ideas! Frijoles333 TALK 15:29, March 21, 2015 (UTC)
 * If you believe they offer change and fresh ideas then why can you not list any of these actual ideas? And your comment that you believe they are better suited to making Lovia fairer and more active while admitting they have no concrete policies is worrying. That you would support a party that has no idea of where they are going is a massive concern and I seriously hope that the largest party is one that has a detailed and full manifesto on which they stand. I'd rather not have your vote for some vague comments but rather have it for well-thought out, practical and clear policies that you think would benefit Lovia. if you're voting based on vague comments, I'm glad you're disillusioned. Hoffmann LogoCNP2wt.png Kunarian TALK 08:54, March 22, 2015 (UTC)
 * Look at the page, and indeed the talk page of the RI page. It may not yet be a whole binder full of plans but she does have a few set points which she has elaborated on. HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 13:03, March 22, 2015 (UTC)

(edc) Kunarian's 'full and voluptuous manifesto' made me giggle. :P --Semyon 15:30, March 21, 2015 (UTC)

Lasovat do/vote Oos Wes Ilava an(d) KKPL/CCPL
--O u WTB 10:15, March 21, 2015 (UTC)

Vote CCPL this election. The party that has proven they are capable of running the nation. Happy65 10:17, March 21, 2015 (UTC)

Huh? I thought you preferred CNP, Happy. :P 77topaz (talk) 10:39, March 21, 2015 (UTC)
 * He joined CCPL. --Semyon 10:40, March 21, 2015 (UTC)

(edc) Let the other politicians talk. Uncle Oos can devour the citizens while they're not looking! --Semyon 10:40, March 21, 2015 (UTC)

Oh, of course, I remember that. 77topaz (talk) 10:42, March 21, 2015 (UTC)

I enjoyed my time in the CNP but felt it was time to resign. I had not seen Kunarian for 2 months and I felt as if I had no option but to leave the party. I agreed to return to the party 2 months ago as long as the convention was worked on as swiftly as possible. This did not occur. I still support CNP members to a certain extent but now support the CPPL. Happy65 10:49, March 21, 2015 (UTC)

@Topaz: You missed yesterday, when Oos announced he would cut me in pieces and barbecue them. --Semyon 11:01, March 21, 2015 (UTC)
 * Ya better keep y'r mouth closed or I'm gon' shute ya :o --O u WTB 11:10, March 21, 2015 (UTC)

Interesting that as much has been said about the CNP as the CCPL on this page. I for one welcome our Christian overlords. Hoffmann Kunarian TALK 09:02, March 22, 2015 (UTC)

Debates
I am going to try and organise a debate, as has been suggested by Kunarian. The debate will probably occur in chat. The three important things to decide are: who is going to be debating, when are they free to debate, and what will they be debating about? --Semyon 17:46, March 21, 2015 (UTC)

Who
I believe the following parties should be represented.
 * United Left - by Horton
 * Greens - by Topaz
 * CNP - by Kunarian
 * CCPL - by Oos (or Happy65?)
 * Republicans - by Traspes

If I have missed anyone, this is not deliberate; if you want to be added, that's probably fine.

Hi, do you think my new character (Katie Conroy) could be included? I love a good chance to debate Frijoles333 TALK 17:51, March 21, 2015 (UTC)

Why not Oos and Happy65. Leader and PM candidate, too important roles. Happy65 17:52, March 21, 2015 (UTC)


 * (edc) I'm going to veto CCPL having two representatives. If we have a second debate, both of you can do it, but otherwise you'll have to decide between you.


 * As for Katie Conroy, I personally think it should be limited to political parties. Perhaps TNCT could do an interview with Ms. Conroy to discuss the debate and ask her the same questions?


 * I will also add SLP, if TM wants me to.


 * Finally, thanks to the person who subsectionified the subsections. --Semyon 19:02, March 21, 2015 (UTC)

@Semyon: Ms. Conroy is fine with not being in the debates, as long she can participate in a newspaper interview like you suggested, so that the public can still hear from her Frijoles333 TALK 19:23, March 21, 2015 (UTC)
 * You can have an interview with the Lovian Times or LFT if you want as well Frijoles, so you get the most amount of coverage as possible. Hoffmann LogoCNP2wt.png Kunarian TALK 03:26, March 22, 2015 (UTC)
 * That would be great thanks Kunarian Frijoles333 TALK 15:07, March 22, 2015 (UTC)

I think, we should allow that the independents can be in the debate. Traspes - Dianna Bartol

When
What time is best? This week seems good - perhaps next Saturday early morning or evening. I believe we are all in similar timezones, with the glaring exception of Topaz. If he's unable to do it, we might be able to find a workaround. --Semyon 17:46, March 21, 2015 (UTC)

Traspes lives in the Pacific timezone, so she might not be able to make a chat debate. Perhaps we just have it on a forum instead? HORTON11 : •  18:09, March 21, 2015 (UTC)
 * Saturday in the morning will probably work, though I can not guarantee sobriety. --O u WTB 18:10, March 21, 2015 (UTC)

I prefer the Forum idea, though it could start on chat and then have all those responses pasted to the forum for others to look at. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 18:38, March 21, 2015 (UTC)

And on the time zone issue, later in the morning (in UTC at least) would be preferred. At least noon would be nice. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 18:39, March 21, 2015 (UTC)

I was assuming all Americans were inactive nowadays. A forum is probably the best plan, then. It's nice to have the immediacy of chat though. --Semyon 18:43, March 21, 2015 (UTC)

28 March (or at least, when it's 28 March in New Zealand) wouldn't work for me, because I have a field trip for one of my classes. 29 March (New Zealand time) would probably be fine, though. 77topaz (talk) 21:43, March 21, 2015 (UTC)

I think that in a forum it is going to be a better idea. When I mostly edit you are sleeping. Traspes - Dianna Bartol 01:18, March 22, 2015 (UTC)

What
Add topics here that you think should be discussed. --Semyon 17:46, March 21, 2015 (UTC)
 * The economy, stupid.
 * Constitutional affairs
 * Lovian business competitiveness
 * Political instability (including militias, other nongovernmental groups, etc.)
 * States' rights (more or less)
 * Education, Healthcare, etc. and how to fund
 * The potential creation of an Oceana regional parliament
 * State and regional autonomy/devolution
 * LGBT rights
 * Censorship
 * Rights of the minorities (youths, immgrants, disabled people, third age)

I think regional autonomy and devolution encompasses Oceana debates. Further I would have thought that we'd need to discuss the Justice system which at the moment is largely based around arresting people and then just holding them until they are released. Hoffmann Kunarian TALK 19:20, March 21, 2015 (UTC)
 * Yes, I saw there was some duplication in the list. I'll moderate it before the debate. --Semyon 19:22, March 21, 2015 (UTC)
 * Roger, also Welfare should probably be debated, as it's a massive part of Lovian spending that almost goes unseen. Hoffmann LogoCNP2wt.png Kunarian TALK 19:23, March 21, 2015 (UTC)
 * I'd have to disagree with you on that first comment. Oceana is a big part, but certainly not the only area where autonomy needs to be discussed for. It should at the least include Truth Island and the Headland, plus we could make note of linguistic minorities across the country, like Seven's Russians, the Bredish speakers and such. HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 19:51, March 21, 2015 (UTC)

Lovian Times Polling 21-22 March
Elections
 * 21-22 March 2015 - If a Federal Election happened tomorrow who would you give a major vote to?
 * 3 - Conservative Christian Party of Lovia
 * 3 - Conservative Nationalist Party
 * 2 - United Left
 * 1 - Social Liberal Party
 * 2 - Green Party
 * 1 - Republican Initiative
 * 1 - Other


 * 21-22 March 2015 - If a Federal Election happened tomorrow who would you give a minor vote to?
 * 3 - Conservative Christian Party of Lovia
 * 2 - Conservative Nationalist Party
 * 3 - United Left
 * 1 - Social Liberal Party
 * 2 - Green Party
 * 2 - Republican Initiative
 * 0 - Other


 * 21-22 March 2015 - If a Federal Election happened tomorrow who would you give a support vote to?
 * 4 - Conservative Christian Party of Lovia
 * 1 - Conservative Nationalist Party
 * 0 - United Left
 * 2 - Social Liberal Party
 * 3 - Green Party
 * 2 - Republican Initiative
 * 1 - Other

Flavour Polling
 * 21-22 March 2015 - Do you think that a majority government (one party), majority coalition (as many parties as needed for a majority) or grand coalition (as many parties as possible) would be better as a government for Lovia?
 * 1 - Majority Government
 * 5 - Majority Coalition
 * 4 - Grand Coalition
 * 2 - Don't Know

Comments
Lovian Times polling Returns! :D Hoffmann Kunarian TALK 19:50, March 21, 2015 (UTC)

Lovian Times Polling 23-24 March
Elections
 * 23-24 March 2015 - If a Federal Election happened tomorrow who would you give a major vote to?
 * 1 - Conservative Christian Party of Lovia
 * 2 - Conservative Nationalist Party
 * 3 - United Left
 * 2 - Social Liberal Party
 * 0 - Green Party
 * 0 - Republican Initiative
 * 1 - Other


 * 23-24 March 2015 - If a Federal Election happened tomorrow who would you give a minor vote to?
 * 2 - Conservative Christian Party of Lovia
 * 2 - Conservative Nationalist Party
 * 2 - United Left
 * 0 - Social Liberal Party
 * 1 - Green Party
 * 2 - Republican Initiative
 * 0 - Other


 * 23-24 March 2015 - If a Federal Election happened tomorrow who would you give a support vote to?
 * 1 - Conservative Christian Party of Lovia
 * 1 - Conservative Nationalist Party
 * 2 - United Left
 * 1 - Social Liberal Party
 * 1 - Green Party
 * 2 - Republican Initiative
 * 1 - Other

Flavour Polling
 * 23-24 March 2015 - Do you think that a majority government (one party), majority coalition (as many parties as needed for a majority) or grand coalition (as many parties as possible) would be better as a government for Lovia?
 * 0 - Majority Government
 * 7 - Majority Coalition
 * 1 - Grand Coalition
 * 0 - Don't Know

Comments
There's going to be continuous polling until voting day to track the mood as it changes. Hoffmann Kunarian TALK 17:45, March 23, 2015 (UTC)

I'm not sure how useful it is to hold these polls so soon after one another. The result will just depend on which users are online on which day - I didn't notice this particular poll, for example, while I did vote in the previous and next ones. 77topaz (talk) 09:03, March 25, 2015 (UTC)

Indeed, it won't be terribly meaningful. I think I've voted in all of them so far, but for different parties each time. --Semyon 09:15, March 25, 2015 (UTC)

Yes, a individual poll won't be massively meaningful. But it will be useful the closer we get to voting day as the average has proven to be reasonably accurate in the past at creating good predictions. Meanwhile the moving average will hint at any changing opinions. Speaking of which, I've already changed my vote between the first poll and third. Hoffmann Kunarian TALK 09:22, March 25, 2015 (UTC)

That's true, irl individual polls are not that meaningful either. --Semyon 09:31, March 25, 2015 (UTC)

Comments
Very nice formatting. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 21:10, March 24, 2015 (UTC)
 * I always vote for the party with the best formatting - assuming, that is, that they use semicolons correctly. --Semyon 11:27, March 25, 2015 (UTC)

Lovian Times Polling 25-26 March
Elections
 * 25-26 March 2015 - If a Federal Election happened tomorrow who would you give a major vote to?
 * 1 - Conservative Christian Party of Lovia
 * 3 - Conservative Nationalist Party
 * 3 - United Left
 * 2 - Social Liberal Party
 * 3 - Green Party
 * 1 - Republican Initiative
 * 0 - Other


 * 25-26 March 2015 - If a Federal Election happened tomorrow who would you give a minor vote to?
 * 1 - Conservative Christian Party of Lovia
 * 1 - Conservative Nationalist Party
 * 2 - United Left
 * 1 - Social Liberal Party
 * 5 - Green Party
 * 2 - Republican Initiative
 * 1 - Other


 * 25-26 March 2015 - If a Federal Election happened tomorrow who would you give a support vote to?
 * 4 - Conservative Christian Party of Lovia
 * 0 - Conservative Nationalist Party
 * 2 - United Left
 * 2 - Social Liberal Party
 * 1 - Green Party
 * 4 - Republican Initiative
 * 0 - Other

Flavour Polling
 * 25-26 March 2015 - Do you think that a majority government (one party), majority coalition (as many parties as needed for a majority) or grand coalition (as many parties as possible) would be better as a government for Lovia?
 * 1 - Majority Government
 * 5 - Majority Coalition
 * 6 - Grand Coalition
 * 1 - Don't Know

Comments
Last full poll before the debates. Hoffmann Kunarian TALK 07:38, March 25, 2015 (UTC)

Long time no see
Hi guys. It's been a while, and some of you may not recognize me anymore, judging from the amount of new names that I myself don't recognize. For the ones that don't know me/recognize me, I am a former Lovian. I used to be pretty active on Lovia until summer 2013, after which I left the site. During my time on WikiNation I was involved with the radical leftist parties of Lovia (CPL.nm and NLS) and I am also the guy that designed the second generation of maps of Lovia. I introduced hamlets, founded Warped Records and made thousands of edits on a previous account since at least 2010. It warms my heart to see that Lovia is still active, 8 years after it was founded.

Back in the day, we did a lot of cool off-site stuff regarding a multi-nation project called Llamada. I started out on WikiStad, and also started my own project, called the Harvian Islands. I have lots of fond memories of this site. Spending hours on IRC channels with other WikiNation project members, gaining a couple of Facebook friends, starting my own conlang (Bredish) and having lengthy discussions with some of the most idiosyncratic and weird-ass people (cough, Pierlot) I have ever met. Cadaro (www.tonefactory.lo) 11:06, March 25, 2015 (UTC)


 * Haha, yeah, it's still going (fairly) strong. Pierlot's disappeared though. :'(


 * Want to stand in the elections? :P --Semyon 11:25, March 25, 2015 (UTC)
 * Oi, that's a shame. At one point Pierlot accidentally doxxed himself back in 2011 or so and me and Magnus/TMV discovered that he was in a school for special needs children - might explain some of the rigid awkwardness surrounding his persona. I might as well create a new character for myself for shits and giggles. How about yet another foreign socialist intellectual to overthrow the Lovian bourgeoisie? Cadaro (www.tonefactory.lo) 15:54, March 26, 2015 (UTC)
 * I didn't know that about Pierlot - sad, but doesn't really surprise me. The socialist intellectual sounds great. :P --Semyon 21:13, March 26, 2015 (UTC)
 * Yuri's got Pierlot on facebook; Pierlot hasn't changed his profile picture since 2011, he's still active though :o --O u WTB 21:17, March 26, 2015 (UTC)

Welcome back Cadaro. Good to see you return, especially considering your invaluable contributions. Hoffmann Kunarian TALK 11:33, March 25, 2015 (UTC)
 * Welcome back! It's been some time indeed :) --O u WTB 09:26, March 26, 2015 (UTC)
 * I gotta admit, I even have some trouble adjusting to the Wiki interface again. I keep forgetting that fucking signature. Cadaro (www.tonefactory.lo) 15:54, March 26, 2015 (UTC)
 * It's possible to change to Monobook (the old Wikipedia skin several years ago, as opposed to the current skin), and to source the source editor (or alternatively a rich text editor, which I think is default). Also, on the character front, I would prefer you pick up your old character and party (SDU, or alternatively maybe revive CPL.nm) but of course that is your decision. :P —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 15:58, March 26, 2015 (UTC)
 * Hm, I am still unsure. I might also create a new character, because to be quite frank, I am a bit tired of Ferenc. Cadaro (www.tonefactory.lo) 21:07, March 26, 2015 (UTC)
 * Feel free to make a new character or do whatever you want. HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 21:10, March 26, 2015 (UTC)

Scheschwi suruc Pierlot McCrooke 08:50, April 15, 2015 (UTC)

Striving to Improve Lovia


 Accessible mobility and sustainable transport: Transit in Lovia will need to be clean, green and usable and UL wants to work to achieve that. UL will work to have all public transit accessible for people with disabilities, including physical and audio-visual assistance. UL will also strive to introduce energy-efficient buses and trains for the future, to further reduce Lovia's carbon emissions.

 Business competitivity: UL will work with businesses to assist them in expanding in Lovia and to help them be competitive abroad. UL will work to provide businesses assistance via programs and tax breaks to hire more people (especially the disadvantage); work will especially be done to help small businesses, both assist current ones and help future owners to realize their dreams.

 Improving infrastructure: UL has worked in Clymene to improve basic infrastructure following the past year's crises. UL is working on affordable refurbished housing and buildings in the state and will work with other states, cities and businesses to assure all of Lovia will return to have great housing and infrastructure.

 Rebuilding Lovia will take a lot of effort. Public and private entities, along with the tireless effort of individuals will be key, and United Left wants to be there to see it happen.

 HORTON11 : •  15:11, March 25, 2015 (UTC)

Templates
So Horton is insisting I do this. What do you think of the changes I've made to templates/new templates I've made? They include Template:Wikify, Template:Outdated, Template:Biased, and I'll probably make a couple more later today. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 17:05, March 26, 2015 (UTC)
 * What's wrong with Template:F5? :o --O u WTB 13:21, April 6, 2015 (UTC)
 * Nothing. HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 13:55, April 6, 2015 (UTC)

Hamlets
Alright, this is something that's been bothering me for quite some time now. After (how many?) years, we still have not created a page for all our hamlets. Could the local governors please fix this or make other people fix this? Special:WantedPages is practically a hamlet list right now... --O u WTB 18:07, March 26, 2015 (UTC)
 * Yeah, That's largely my fault :L Happy and Time could probably fix up Kings and I'll do my dues to Sylvania. Those are the only two states causing real issues atm after all. Hoffmann LogoCNP2wt.png Kunarian TALK 18:09, March 26, 2015 (UTC)
 * I could always help you doing that. Of course, if you want to. 18:13, March 26, 2015 (UTC)
 * Don't know why Time seems to be opposed to making hamlets, but we should really work on making all the pages. Also, I just notices, is Koningsdorp a reference to Koningstad ? :o HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 18:14, March 26, 2015 (UTC)
 * @TheMaster: Why not, just to be sure though there are clear plans for each of these settlements, as basic as they are but a helping hand can't hurt. Hoffmann LogoCNP2wt.png Kunarian TALK 19:19, March 26, 2015 (UTC)

They ought to be created, but keep in mind that it's not worth creating the pages unless they give a significant amount of significant not already seen on the maps/list. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 18:12, March 26, 2015 (UTC)
 * Sure, that's why I don't create them myself :P --O u WTB 18:14, March 26, 2015 (UTC)

The article for Centreville, once I actually sit down and write the full history etc. (probably Easter at the earliest) would probably contain enough information to start off articles about some other nearby hamlets as well, such as Manchester. Additionally, I've had ideas for the hamlets Steenveld, Kustwijk and Hierland (based on the little snippets of information Kunarian wrote about them). 77topaz (talk) 22:13, March 26, 2015 (UTC)

Comments
CNP prioritise the workers of our nation and the least well off. Hoffmann Kunarian TALK 19:17, March 26, 2015 (UTC)

You really churn these out. :P As usual, very nice formatting. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 19:21, March 26, 2015 (UTC)
 * Gotta let peeps know ma policies. :O Thank you very much Time. :D Hoffmann LogoCNP2wt.png Kunarian TALK 19:28, March 26, 2015 (UTC)
 * Btw, could you maybe make those ministry seals? :P —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 19:35, March 26, 2015 (UTC)
 * GODDAMITTTTT TIME! :U It's okay, I'll have to try and find a way to replicate the style, I'm using different software. If I can't I'll just update the current set and we can all agree on a style. Hoffmann LogoCNP2wt.png Kunarian TALK 19:49, March 26, 2015 (UTC)

Social Liberal Party Platform


 Centralization: We have tried decentralization in Lovia and it is clear that it does not improve activity. SLP will work to reverse these changes and bring power back to the Federal level, because a nation of less than 300,000 has no room for the divisiveness caused by powerful state governments. However, the states have implemented some strong policies, especially in the realm of healthcare, and we will work to nationalize and improve these programs so they may apply to all states.

 Moderation: Political cohesiveness is required for healthy political activity. We will work with all parties to follow a moderate path, nurturing an active Congress, executive branch, and economy with the contributions of all across the political spectrum. With the help of others, we want to pass many laws to improve Lovia and make it a better place to live. Extremism only results in division.

 Public Services: Lovia needs to have basic nationalized services that are fair and highly regulated. Such services will include free universal public education and health, as well as public utilities, including energy, water, communications, and others. We support free market in non-essential enterprises, but important services for all should not be privatized.

<font color="1F1F1F"> After the devastation of the past year, much must change, and we hope to start next Congress with your vote.

—TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 00:12, March 27, 2015 (UTC)


 * I think you must have missed out a word somewhere, because the first two sentences as they are currently written imply that the SLP is working to reverse changes which improved activity. :P 77topaz (talk) 02:29, March 27, 2015 (UTC)


 * Fixed. :3 —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 10:28, March 27, 2015 (UTC)
 * Obviously I disagree with you first sentence and a half. On another note, y u copy UL?? If SLP can't be original with their campaigns, why should we vote them.  HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 14:04, March 27, 2015 (UTC)
 * How about you interpret it as sucking up to UL? —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 15:15, March 27, 2015 (UTC)

Republican Initiative


Republican Initiative wants to propose a system to allow youths, new immigrants and disabled people to have an opportunity to work. They usually are disadvantaged in getting jobs and RI wants to assist them.

RI Will:


 * Create a program to assist people to linked them to a employer, in the areas they are interested or they are good
 * Allow them to get invaluable work experience in the program in a term period and get good training
 * Give the company a tax bonus if they choose to get immigrant/youth/disabled workers of the program

Programs like this program in other countries were successful and helped and in Lovia it can happen too! A better future being with the bold ideas like this, but Republican Initiative can make the choice with you. Traspes - Dianna Bartol 00:34, March 27, 2015 (UTC)

We completely oppose giving a tax bonus to companies to encourage them to hire immigrants over hiring citizens of Lovia. Lovian companies should not be encouraged to discriminate against Lovians. It would seem that Republican Initiative is so desperate to pander to special interest groups that it shows open disdain to the rest of Lovia. Hoffmann Kunarian TALK 06:33, March 27, 2015 (UTC)


 * Kunarian, I can not believe you just said that. We must definitely assist Lovians, but immigrants form a key part of our society and we must assist them. Oftentimes these people are among the least well off financially, may have difficulty adjusting to a new society, and let's face it, could see some discrimination in getting jobs in the workplace. Immigrants come to Lovia, to any nation for the opportunities, and if we don't give them any, we're to blame and they'll just end up goign to another nation where they can get them. HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 14:11, March 27, 2015 (UTC)
 * I strongly disagree. We've got our own people who need jobs. Unemployment is as high as 15-20% in East Hills! Giving prominance to immigrants, will only cause more immigrants to move to Lovia. After all, we've got virtually no laws in place which are against immigration. While I do agree we need to find ways to get youth and disabled (back) to work, immigrants should come in the last place. --O u WTB 14:16, March 27, 2015 (UTC)
 * Indeed. Horton's complaint about not giving immigrants a chance makes no sense as they've got the same chance as native Lovians. --QytokantFRÅGOR??? 15:10, March 27, 2015 (UTC)

I cannot believe that UL and RI have some sort of twisted idea that we should favour immigrants over our own people in this serious crisis. Many immigrants become Lovian citizens, will the business that employed them then lose the tax credit? or will the Lovian citizen retain an advantage over our other Lovians? This policy is backwards and wrong and impractical and unworkable.

Many parties wish to find ways to assist the disabled and the young but no party that actually cares about the people of this nation wishes to encourage discrimination against our naturalised Lovians. And Horton you are being incredibly hypocritical. You govern Clymene, will you start encouraging Clymeni businesses to discriminate against Clymeni in favour of immigrants or even Sylvanians? or Kingsers?

Immigrants should not be able to come to this nation without having a job to come to or a place to live. We have too many homeless and unemployed in this nation already. Hoffmann Kunarian TALK 19:02, March 27, 2015 (UTC)

Conroy for Lovia


This election day, Lovians have a fresh choice, an independent choice, a better choice, and her name is Katie Conroy Extracts from Katie Conroy's campaign launch speech in Sofasi today

We can strike the right balance on devolution

State governments can mean more than inactive local politicians that leave their communities lagging behind others. I want a return to the days when state councils were buzzing hives of activity in which people could have a lasting positive impact on their communities. Progress in state governments has been plagued by inactivity, fuelling inequality between states. With me in Congress, we can strike the right balance on devolution. We need to keep State Councils and Governors at the heart of decision and policy making, but we can’t have states functioning as self-governing countries. With my proposed overhaul of the way that we devolve powers to state governments, this is possible.

Looking out for the most vulnerable in our society

The Burenian invasion and conflict in Clymeni hit hard-working Lovians hard. It is time to address the now gaping inequalities in our society, and help get these people back on track. Whether it’s through building new homes, or fighting for a national system of healthcare and social security that protects Lovia’s most vulnerable, the first priority of any government formed after the election must be to help those affected by this conflict return to normality. Building on the foundations of healthcare reforms on the state level, it is now time for a national system of healthcare of social security that protects all Lovians. When hard-working families are out on the streets, parents unable to support their children, action is needed.

Fighting for a progressive Lovia

I believe in a progressive Lovia that looks to the future, not one that looks back. Other parties want to make moral judgements on the lives of others, push their own values onto others, and use their religious beliefs to suppress the rights and freedoms of others. In Congress, I will fight to protect the rights of women to safe, legal abortions, and I will protect the rights of same-sex couples to get married.

'''Politics that's about people... not ideological squabbles''' We need to include all parties in a dialogue about rebuilding Lovia. At this time, we need to put aside our ideological differences, find some common ground, and work together for the freer, stronger, more equal Lovia that we can all make possible.

Questions
Feel free to post any questions here... Frijoles333 TALK 21:06, March 27, 2015 (UTC)

Semyon Breyev
It is Semyon Breyev's death anniversary. :( —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 22:17, March 27, 2015 (UTC)
 * I'm sorry to say I laughed out loud when I saw this - possibly not the correct response on such a sad occasion. :( --Semyon 09:16, March 28, 2015 (UTC)
 * The fact that you find your own death funny proves that you're takavíhki. :( --QytokantFRÅGOR??? 10:12, March 28, 2015 (UTC)
 * @Time/Semyons: Y'all just sadifaad me :'( --O u WTB 11:22, March 28, 2015 (UTC)
 * And I miss August Magnus Donia, he would have been 69 last month...  Dude's been dead for almost five (!) years now. Always a shame to say goodbye to a beloved character, TM. King Sebastian I of Lovia (talk) 12:06, March 28, 2015 (UTC)
 * That's sad :( --O u WTB 12:10, March 28, 2015 (UTC)
 * @4kant: I don't find my death, but TM's sadification, funny. :P --Semyon 12:21, March 28, 2015 (UTC)
 * Leedvermaak is also takavíhki though :o --QytokantFRÅGOR??? 12:35, March 28, 2015 (UTC)

Lasovat do Parti fo Nesavicelost 'Oshenna!
--Kunar Ilava 12:20, March 28, 2015 (UTC)

Poll on debates
Who was the winner of the election debate? Aina Sarria Lukas Hoffmann Justin Abrahams William Krosby Oos Wes Ilava Nicholas Sheraldin

--Semyon 18:08, March 30, 2015 (UTC)

I'm voting Hoffmann, but I normally don't think debates have a clear winner. He wrote the most, I guess (with Oos being closest, but I disagree with him the most :P), so it felt like he did the best job? But that doesn't mean he wins per se. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 21:22, March 30, 2015 (UTC)
 * I voted Oos Wes Ilava, as he owned Krosby with his breast-feeding argument :P --O u WTB 09:14, March 31, 2015 (UTC)
 * I'm gonna have to disagree on your reasoning of length there, Time. Or do you not remember this guy's 98 minutes at the UN. I'm not discrediting Hoffman, he did a fine job, but now I know to ramble on for 90 minutes the next debate to get your vote :P HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 12:40, March 31, 2015 (UTC)
 * Well, this is just for this debate. And I don't know why you're tied for the lead. :P —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 12:42, March 31, 2015 (UTC)
 * Still, such a reasoning should not be used. And I guess I have enough supporters; my vote tied it up and I am happy others liked my speeching :P HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 12:46, March 31, 2015 (UTC)
 * But most of what you did was agree with others, and you wrote very similar things to me and Traspes, so I'm scratching my head on why you have 4 votes. :P —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 12:47, March 31, 2015 (UTC)
 * He's got all of Brunant voting for him :P --O u WTB 12:49, March 31, 2015 (UTC)
 * Maybe I'm the better orator :P And all of Brunant is already in Lovia :P HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 12:50, March 31, 2015 (UTC)
 * Yeah, that's why they've voted on you :P --O u WTB 12:52, March 31, 2015 (UTC)
 * @Horton on length of speech: I do not think I went on for 98 minutes... however I feel I spoke a good length, without rambling, and delivered what I feel is most important to the electorate. A very clear set of achievable policies. If people would rather vote based on the name of a party than its quality then I wish United Left a good election.
 * @Horton on why Horton is doing well: Maybe people felt that they agreed with lots of people and so felt the only way to express this was to agree with the person who agreed with everyone else? Hoffmann LogoCNP2wt.png Kunarian TALK 16:04, March 31, 2015 (UTC)
 * I'm not accusing you of rambling on. I'm just taking an opposing stand as to Time's reasoning for voting you. Voting for someone based on the length of the speech alone is not a good measure of how good the person is. I would've been even more concerned had you gone on some loony talk like Gaddafi and still gotten his vote for the same reason :P HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 16:07, March 31, 2015 (UTC)

I am very happy that my esteemed colleagues would grant me so many votes. I hope that what I showed in the debate was but a taste of the CNP policies to come and a sign of the fervour with which I value our great nation of Lovia. Hoffmann Kunarian TALK 15:51, March 31, 2015 (UTC)

Vote MLPE


Vote for the Marxist-Leninist Party of East Hills this election. We will remake this country with our Five-Point Plan. --Alexander Read
 * 1) Work towards a socialist state. Full equality will be ours. Employers will be compelled to pay employees the full value of their labour. The state will guarantee employment for every able-bodied Lovian.
 * 2) Centralization. We oppose nationalism and regionalism. Working class solidarity cannot be threatened by such bourgeois phenomena.
 * 3) True democracy. The current system allows manipulation of the electorate. The illusion of a choice disguises the exploitation of the working classes. We will work towards the creation of a dictatorship of the proletariat.
 * 4) Opposition to the church. We oppose all religious institutions. The Roman Catholic Church's baleful influence will be overcome.
 * 5) Deal with reactionary elements. Holders of aristocratic titles and social parasites will not escape punishment.

The CNP shares the MLPE's appreciation of point based plans but thinks that not much else is shared between us. Hoffmann Kunarian TALK 15:57, March 31, 2015 (UTC)

That is also my impression. --Alexander Read 16:04, March 31, 2015 (UTC)

Lovian Times Polling 31-1 March/April
Elections
 * 31-1 March/April 2015 - If a Federal Election happened tomorrow who would you give a major vote to?
 * 3 - Conservative Christian Party of Lovia
 * 3 - Conservative Nationalist Party
 * 2 - United Left
 * 2 - Social Liberal Party
 * 3 - Green Party
 * 0 - Republican Initiative
 * 1 - Other


 * 31-1 March/April 2015 - If a Federal Election happened tomorrow who would you give a minor vote to?
 * 2 - Conservative Christian Party of Lovia
 * 4 - Conservative Nationalist Party
 * 2 - United Left
 * 2 - Social Liberal Party
 * 3 - Green Party
 * 0 - Republican Initiative
 * 1 - Other


 * 31-1 March/April 2015 - If a Federal Election happened tomorrow who would you give a support vote to?
 * 4 - Conservative Christian Party of Lovia
 * 2 - Conservative Nationalist Party
 * 1 - United Left
 * 2 - Social Liberal Party
 * 2 - Green Party
 * 3 - Republican Initiative
 * 0 - Other

Flavour Polling
 * 31-1 March/April 2015 - Do you think that a majority government (one party), majority coalition (as many parties as needed for a majority) or grand coalition (as many parties as possible) would be better as a government for Lovia?
 * 1 - Majority Government
 * 4 - Majority Coalition
 * 6 - Grand Coalition
 * 0 - Don't Know


 * 31-1 March/April 2015 - What kind of debate would you like to see next?
 * 5 - All Party Debate (same 6)
 * 0 - Major Party Debate (top 2 or 3 parties)
 * 4 - Minor Party Debate (those not in the top 2 or 3)
 * 2 - Don't Know

Comments
Poll that flavour. Hoffmann Kunarian TALK 16:27, March 31, 2015 (UTC)

Oos
According to Special:ListUsers, Oos today overtook DimiTalen in edit count. :o —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 01:02, April 1, 2015 (UTC)

What's the "poweruser" group for? I never noticed it before, but apparently I'm in it. :o 77topaz (talk) 08:25, April 1, 2015 (UTC)

Also, Oos's edit count on the ListUsers page and his edit count on his user page differ by roughly 700. :P Is that because one counts deleted pages while the other does not, something along those lines? 77topaz (talk) 08:29, April 1, 2015 (UTC)

Yes, Oos has not overtaken Dimitri yet, but he will :o Special:Editcount/Ooswesthoesbes - Special:Editcount/DimiTalen. --O u WTB 09:27, April 1, 2015 (UTC)

Hard to believe Dimitri got all those edits in little more than 3 years. :O Anyway, I've got some catching up to do. :P --Semyon 09:52, April 1, 2015 (UTC)

Hahhaha, he was very devout :o --O u WTB 09:54, April 1, 2015 (UTC)

Reminds me of, well me in Brunant. Could I switch my edit count around, I'd be the King of Editing by far. HORTON11 : •  13:26, April 1, 2015 (UTC)

Al-Asmari declares himself potential contender for the seat of PM
From Thameen, Kings (1 April 2015): "My fellow Lovians! Quake before your superior, for I, Rakham Tarik Al-Asmari, shall consider the idea of running for the office of Prime Minister of Lovia. As I do not wish to divide the GP voter base, I shall not run for the time being. However, if my asteemed colledge Mr. Sheridan wishes to allow me the chance to run for the position, I shall do so with the greatest focus and energy. I look forward to a response from my fellow GP members, and I wish you all a good election for 2015!" -- Rakham Tarik Al-Asmari, Green Party MP

Gentlemen! I believe it is high-time I threw my hat into the arena and knocked out a couple of teeth with gusto! Methinks Al-Asmari has the potential to become a good politician and an even better PM. But we'll never know unless he goes for the post now will we? And no, this is not an April Fool's stunt. :P Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 21:13, April 1, 2015 (UTC)

I don't think you can actually "run for PM" as such, you just run for Congress, and the leader of the grand/majority coalition becomes PM. Great to see you've decided to run in the elections after all, though! :) 77topaz (talk) 23:17, April 1, 2015 (UTC)

Well, you could call it running if a user says he's interested in the position. F.e., Oos is not running, cuz he said he ain' interested. --O u WTB 07:30, April 2, 2015 (UTC)

Well then that just makes it much easier then. :D Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 22:42, April 2, 2015 (UTC)

Just a thought
How come we have no wikinations that border each other? Wouldn't it be nice to have two share the same border; imagine a Lovian-Brunanter Sint-Maarten or something along those lines. HORTON11 : •  13:07, April 7, 2015 (UTC)
 * Simple solution: Oshenna becomes independent, and Lovia and Oshenna border each other :P --O u WTB 13:08, April 7, 2015 (UTC)
 * :o It's genius! --Semyon 15:31, April 7, 2015 (UTC)
 * I was thinking more along the lines of a Caribbean island nation. HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 15:33, April 7, 2015 (UTC)

A half Lovian/Brunanter or Brunanter/Lovian island. HORTON11 : •  15:43, April 7, 2015 (UTC)
 * I think we don't need any colonies... --O u WTB 15:45, April 7, 2015 (UTC)
 * Says the Mäöreser colonist :P --QytokantFRÅGOR??? 17:17, April 7, 2015 (UTC)
 * Indeed, Mäöres is the country of occupying and suppressing other people :P --O u WTB 17:23, April 7, 2015 (UTC)
 * Indeed, Mäöres is the country of being mean :'( --QytokantFRÅGOR??? 17:37, April 7, 2015 (UTC)
 * :o --O u WTB 17:38, April 7, 2015 (UTC)

I don't think wikinations could have colonies, especially ones in the new world. And since the Truth Island stuff, I think the chances of this happening are very small. Happy65 18:14, April 7, 2015 (UTC)


 * At least one does. And anyway, this was just a thought. And returning to the original question, why do no current wikinations share a land or even sea border? HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 12:43, April 8, 2015 (UTC)
 * Mainly, cuz they were created in totality in different times. --O u WTB 12:44, April 8, 2015 (UTC)
 * I think we could definitely have two wiki nations bordering each other... But not as colonies though Frijoles333 TALK 16:26, April 8, 2015 (UTC)
 * That would be the thought. Don't know if we'd be able to do so, for lack of support. HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 17:30, April 8, 2015 (UTC)

Vote Anna Maria Whithdonck-Malsky for MOTC and PM
Hello everyone. As we all know, what Lovia needs is real change, and that is something that cannot be provided by the current political elite. I aim to provide an alternative voice in Congress that can challenge those representing special interests or making a career out of politics.

If elected as MOTC, I will stand for the position of Prime Minister; in that role, I will provide real and non-divisive leadership to our nation of a kind that has not been seen so far this decade. I aim to tackle the issues that matter to ordinary Lovians, not problems manufactured and manipulated for the benefit of the political class. I will happily work together with those of us that share these aims.

I would like to share with you the alternative vision I have for Lovia, and what I think we need to do to achieve it.
 * Working towards the construction of a socialist society. As a nation, we need to engage in a conversation regarding the sort of society we want to be and the values we want to uphold. If possible, socialist principles will be embedded in the constitution. Symbolically, aristocratic titles, such as 'Heretow', 'Baron' and 'King', will be abolished; such titles send an anti-meritocratic message and in particular devalue women. This needs to be a nation which offers equal opportunity to everyone.
 * An end to sectarianism. Lovia is not a naturally divided society. Members of an elite have whipped up divisions for their own benefit. In order to heal, these individuals must be punished, regardless of their status. I aim to reform the judicial system and then pursue legal action against Oos Wes Ilava, Ygo Donia, and any others who have harmed our nation during the civil war or the recent invasion. I intend to push for the extradition of Nikolai Koshkov.
 * Exclusion of harmful groups. In recent years, government coalitions have included parties from across the political spectrum. I am open to this continuing - but with one exception. CCPL has been at the forefront of political controversy since its founding; it is extremely reactionary, with policies that are deeply offensive to most Lovians and that would create an unpleasant, unjust and immoral society. It, and its sister party RTP, can play no part in a government that includes me.
 * Patriotism. For someone to take pride in their state or nation is only natural, and a positive thing. However, cynics have manipulated these emotions for their own ends. We need to ensure all citizens feel a sense of civic responsibility, association with the actions of the central government, and solidarity with one another.
 * A shared economy. I would like to see an economy which benefits every citizen. The greatest injustice of capitalism is the power it hands to a few to exploit the labour of the many. Every worker should reap the full fruit of their labour. While my government would probably carry out some nationalisation, I am particularly interested in establishing cooperatives. I want every employer to provide employees with shares in their business.
 * The environment. What is required on this topic is not woolly thinking but hard-headed common sense. Damage to the environment will result in irreparable damage to our society, economy, and most importantly, will cause a vast amount of human suffering. Two hundred years ago, fossil fuels were barely used by the human race; a hundred years hence, this will once again be the case. We can reach that situation without extensive economic masochism, but it will require extensive investment in scientific and technological solutions. As a micronation, the role of Lovia on a global scale is limited, but my government will lobby the United States and China on these issues, and aim to make Lovia a pioneer in research into environmental and other sciences.
 * A focussed government. My government, immediately after congressional approval, will create a document listing the policies to be achieved over its term. This will provide a list of targets against which the government, together with individual ministers, may be judged at the end of the term. I will also seek for this practice to be made compulsory for all successive newly-elected governments.

My key message is that there can be another way for Lovia. A vote for me will show Lovia's politicians that they have failed. I'm confident that together we can return to the happy, prosperous and progressive Lovia that we once had. --Anna Maria Whithdonck-Malsky 19:50, April 7, 2015 (UTC)

Economy poll
Which party is most likely to better resolve Lovia's economic issues? Conservative Christian Party of Lovia Conservative Nationalist Part Green Party Republican Initiative Social Liberal Part United Left Other Should the next government be involved in promoting or assisting Lovian businesses abroad? Yes No Is a military necessary? Yes No Unsure As a taxpayer, would you support a military given the likely increase in taxation to help pay for it? Yes No Unsure

K, be sure to vote. HORTON11 : •  13:10, April 8, 2015 (UTC)

Nice poll, except you misspelled :( —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 21:33, April 8, 2015 (UTC)

Is this poll going to be closed at some point, or not? 77topaz (talk) 21:24, April 18, 2015 (UTC)

An event to maintain activity
It's been suggested in chat that we need an event to maintain activity and ensure there's something for editors to do. Some suggestions: --Semyon 02:59, April 10, 2015 (UTC)
 * Oceana independence referendum
 * Immigration/refugee crisis
 * Foreign countries meddling in our politics, e.g. US, Tagog
 * reactivating the Philip the Red trial

Comments
I am not contra a list of reactivition projects, but they should be set in wisely. --O u WTB 08:41, April 10, 2015 (UTC)
 * Yes, wisdom is important. --Semyon 13:23, April 11, 2015 (UTC)

We should have an Oceana independence referendum, but it'll need to be passed in Congress, I think. But since referendums are "semi-binding" (we never defined this), we need the federal government to declare it binding, I guess? I find an immigration crisis too implausible, so foreign meddling (an excellent word) sounds better. We could have Tagogian spies meddling, or something. Of course, it should be done wisely. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 18:28, April 11, 2015 (UTC)
 * No. I'd rather we had a public debate about an independence referendum and have news about it first and then go to a Congressional debate. Only then after that debate should we set a date.
 * On meddling, spies would be the wrong thing, that won't create a long lasting event that we can follow. I'd prefer US meddling with an aim to get us to do something. Because then Congress can make a final decision that would end the event. Just like the referendum would be ended by people voting. Hoffmann LogoCNP2wt.png Kunarian TALK 18:42, April 11, 2015 (UTC)
 * I added the Philip the Red trial. It suits my slightly takaviki sense of humour. --Semyon 17:03, April 13, 2015 (UTC)

Horton
As Topaz spotted earlier, Horton's received a global block. We've found out this is because he tried to delete a lot of pages on a small wiki he made some time ago, which is viewed as vandalism by Wikia. As he didn't realise this, he's contacting them to try and get the block reversed. I'm also going to write to them to tell them that he's a productive and important member of the community, who doesn't deserve a block.

I think it could be good if some of you could leave a couple of words here to that effect, as well, and I'll include a link to this section in the email I send them. Thanks. --Semyon 17:41, April 11, 2015 (UTC)

Horton is a highly productive user here. I'm sure he was just doing housekeeping of low quality articles on that other wiki. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 18:24, April 11, 2015 (UTC)

As TM and Semyon have said, Horton is a very important part of this wiki's community, and in several others too. He is certainly not a vandal, and should not be blocked for his actions Frijoles333 TALK 18:28, April 11, 2015 (UTC)

I hope we get this sorted soon. I'll send a message as well. Hoffmann Kunarian TALK 18:31, April 11, 2015 (UTC)
 * @Kun: I actually created this section so Wikia don't end up with ten identical messages in their inbox on Monday. But if you want to email them, I'm sure it won't hurt. :) --Semyon 18:37, April 11, 2015 (UTC)
 * We shall crush wikia under the weight of our emails! I joke. But yeah, I sent one already. So hopefully they see all that and he gets unblocked. Hoffmann LogoCNP2wt.png Kunarian TALK 18:44, April 11, 2015 (UTC)

Horton is part of our big wikinational community. He helps with several projects on several wiki's, making him one of the most active users. Horton is much loved and respected in our community. I think all users here can say the same. Wabba The I (talk) 20:47, April 11, 2015 (UTC)

This is terrible! I hope Horton gets unblocked as soon as possible! 77topaz (talk) 21:45, April 11, 2015 (UTC)

I agree. Horton should be unblocked as quickly as possible. --O u WTB 20:06, April 12, 2015 (UTC)

Horton is back! I saw it earlier but had little time to log on, but I'm on now. HORTON11 : •  13:38, April 14, 2015 (UTC)

An announcement from Katie Conroy


Katie Conroy announced this morning that she is forming the Lovian Future Party, along with a small group of independent activists. Conroy went on to confirm that the party will be releasing its platform in the coming days, and that a party launch will be held tonight in Noble City, where Conroy and other leading figures in the party are expected to speak.

You forgot to sign your post, Frijoles. :P 77topaz (talk) 20:27, April 13, 2015 (UTC)

Oh darn! Well, I think everyone knew it was me :) Frijoles333 TALK 20:29, April 13, 2015 (UTC)

Horton unblocked
Following a couple of edits on Wikia, I noticed that Horton11 had been unblocked! Happy65 08:01, April 14, 2015 (UTC)

Yep. We already messaged him on his talk page. 77topaz (talk) 11:59, April 14, 2015 (UTC)

Conroy on the campaign trail


Less than twenty four hours after announcing the launch of Lovian Future, Katie Conroy was on the campaign trail, getting the party’s election campaign off to a start in her home state of Clymene. Conroy set out what her party stood for, and mapped out her ambitions for the upcoming Congressional term.

Comments
Lovian Future, yay! :D Frijoles333 TALK 18:33, April 14, 2015 (UTC)

Republicanism (and women)
Just an observation. For the past three or so years since the Civil War, Republicanism has largely disappeared from national politics. Now, fast forward to January 2015, and we see three republicans running for congress, all broadly leftist and all women. Why is this. Republicanism has never been highly popular and all of a sudden 20% of candidates are republican. Females in politics have not been represented this much and so prominently in years, and now we have three progressive and full-of-fresh-ideas female candidates. Care to comment? HORTON11 : •  19:16, April 14, 2015 (UTC)

Well, out of character I would say it's because Traspes joined, and Semyon and I made new characters. In character though, who knows :o Frijoles333 TALK 19:18, April 14, 2015 (UTC)

It's an unhealthy development though. Politics is against the vocation of women :'( --O u WTB 09:17, April 15, 2015 (UTC)


 * How exactly is politics against the vocation of women? Why should society expect women to fulfill a certain role in life solely because of her gender? Shouldn't it be up to individual women to decide what they want to do with their lives, whether that be staying at home with her children, or pursuing a career in politics? Frijoles333 TALK 09:53, April 15, 2015 (UTC)
 * I'll cite 1 Corinth 14:34-35 : "[34] Let women keep quiet in the churches: for it is not right for them to be talking; but let them be under control, as it says in the law. [35] And if they have a desire for knowledge about anything, let them put questions to their husbands privately: for talking in the church puts shame on a woman." --O u WTB 10:26, April 15, 2015 (UTC)
 * Well, it's all well and good for a Christian woman to believe that because of her faith in the Bible, but who are you to say that non-Christian people should obey a religion that they have no belief in? Also, we've recently seen women being able to become priests and bishops in some Christian denominations, so that religious belief is obviously evolving Frijoles333 TALK 10:30, April 15, 2015 (UTC)
 * CCPL is very clear about that. We know that we live in a mainly non-Conservative Christian country, and we show respect to people with other opinions. Therefore, we do not refuse to collaborate with women in politics, and we accept them as equals. I was just making a remark on the fact that I find this a worrying development. To get on women priests: sometimes belief gets corrupted. A woman can never be a priest, as she is not allowed to according to the Bible. --O u WTB 10:43, April 15, 2015 (UTC)
 * Well, although I don't agree that women shouldn't be able to hold important roles in the Bible, I find it reassuring to hear that the CCPL regards women as equals in politics. Loving Future respects the right of people to practice their religious beliefs, as long as they do not discriminate against others Frijoles333 TALK 10:57, April 15, 2015 (UTC)
 * CCPL is always open to suggestions of different Bible readings :P --O u WTB 11:16, April 15, 2015 (UTC)
 * I'm not a big reader of the Bible, but I found this: "There is no male or female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus" (Galatians 3:28) Frijoles333 TALK 11:22, April 15, 2015 (UTC)
 * If you read the context, you'll see that it refers to those believing in Christ. It does not matter to which nation you belong, or to what gender, they can all be true Christians as long as they believe :) --O u WTB 11:46, April 15, 2015 (UTC)

Important news
Masterire is an administrator on the future wiki. O_O —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 01:26, April 15, 2015 (UTC)

Whoever promoted him must not be very sane. :P Looks like Masterire still doesn't write his pages in proper English. :P 77topaz (talk) 03:13, April 15, 2015 (UTC)

L♥via
Maybe it's time to take advantage of our uncanny similarity to the word love. While Noble City and Adoha does take most of the tourism coming to Lovia, we have more to offer in terms of nature and culture and we should promote that. Given that the economy could use a boost, this is one sector we could improve. With Brunant I've made a few tourism campaigns over the years, and Lovia could use some. There are Brunanter tourism and Cetatian tourism websites here, and we could do the same in other wikinations. HORTON11 : •  19:27, April 15, 2015 (UTC)

Guys, comments? Or do I single-handedly need to implement a tourism campaign. HORTON11 : •  21:47, April 16, 2015 (UTC)

You need to single handedly do it, since tourism is boring imo. :o —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 21:50, April 16, 2015 (UTC)

Obviosuly you've not traveled, or else you wouldn't be saying that. Guess then I'll be doing that. HORTON11 : •  19:50, April 21, 2015 (UTC)

An unhealthy development?


Lovian Future published their latest campaign poster today, taking a swipe at the CCPL's stance on women's rights. A light hearted campaign poster ;P Frijoles333 TALK 17:29, April 16, 2015 (UTC)

Republican Initiative supports completely Lovian Future! Traspes - Dianna Bartol 02:43, April 20, 2015 (UTC)


 * Thank you! Lovian Future looks forward to working with Republican Initiative after the elections :) Frijoles333 TALK 15:46, April 20, 2015 (UTC)

Wikibreak
Beloved fellow users,

I have some extremely important exams next month. In order to have more time to study, I'm going to be inactive for around 6 weeks. Aside from a couple of days at the start of May, when the new government will be negotiated, I will not edit or be on chat, or indeed log in, until the 28th of May. If for some strange reason you need to contact me before then, feel free to email. Oos has my address, I think; otherwise you can use the wiki form.

All the best, --Semyon 21:46, April 16, 2015 (UTC)
 * :o You gonna die? :'( --O u WTB 08:36, April 17, 2015 (UTC)
 * You die way too often, Semyon :'( --QytokantFRÅGOR??? 09:13, April 18, 2015 (UTC)
 * Maybe he's a cat. :o 77topaz (talk) 10:14, April 18, 2015 (UTC)
 * So, have many times dying has he left? :o --O u WTB 16:11, April 18, 2015 (UTC)
 * If he's Schrödinger's cat, he can die and survive at the same time and thus live forever :o --QytokantFRÅGOR??? 16:46, April 18, 2015 (UTC)
 * You are nerdy though :( --O u WTB 05:26, April 21, 2015 (UTC)
 * No, I'm intelligent :o --QytokantFRÅGOR??? 05:36, April 21, 2015 (UTC)
 * Does that set you apart from the other users here? :o --O u WTB 05:44, April 21, 2015 (UTC)
 * If the other's are stupid, yes :o --QytokantFRÅGOR??? 05:45, April 21, 2015 (UTC)
 * If you so smart, why you misspell "others"? :'( --O u WTB 05:49, April 21, 2015 (UTC)
 * Maybe I meant "the people of the other one" :o --QytokantFRÅGOR??? 05:52, April 21, 2015 (UTC)
 * Maybe you should just admit you made a typo :o --O u WTB 06:02, April 21, 2015 (UTC)
 * Mayhaps :o --QytokantFRÅGOR??? 05:29, April 22, 2015 (UTC)

First/Last Name for Categories
I noticed this a long time ago but am only bringing it up now. Oos and some others generally categorize pages about people by the last name; for example, "An, Bill" is categorized rather than "Bill An" which it seems that most do. Since we're currently mixed, we should come up with a consensus: should we categorize pages by first or last names? —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 14:04, April 22, 2015 (UTC)
 * Last name, like on Wikipedia. Also, we tend to use surnames when referring to people (Krosby, and not William, for William Krosby); the only exception being 'cl Oos :o --O u WTB 14:06, April 22, 2015 (UTC)
 * And anyway, categorization still needs a lot of fixing (like Category:Person, which should be empty), so we might as well fix this at the same time too. --O u WTB 14:08, April 22, 2015 (UTC)

I lean towards using first names, as I tend to remember pages more easily by first name, but maybe I'm the exception. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 14:10, April 22, 2015 (UTC)
 * Also, first names work directly on search: f.e. type in "John" (without pressing enter) and you'll get a list. That don't work for surnames, unless you categorize them by that è. --O u WTB 14:13, April 22, 2015 (UTC)

People, we need to come to a consensus on this, so please respond. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 02:42, April 24, 2015 (UTC)
 * Another pro argument: it forces users to abandon wikia skin, as the rich text editor does not seem to support this. --O u WTB 09:29, April 24, 2015 (UTC)
 * You can do it with the rich text editor. :P Plus, that's a petty reason, of course. :P 77topaz (talk) 09:57, April 24, 2015 (UTC)
 * And screenshot proof, in case you wanted it. :P 77topaz (talk) 10:01, April 24, 2015 (UTC)
 * Then my argument is that you can even categorize this way using rich-text editor :o --O u WTB 10:08, April 24, 2015 (UTC)
 * Hahaha. :P 12:01, April 24, 2015 (UTC)
 * Nevertheless Oos does have a point: we should somehow invent a system that prohibits the use of takavíhki Wikia skin and even more takavíhki rich-text editor :P As for the alphabetisation, I don't really give a naranja :P --QytokantFRÅGOR??? 13:35, April 24, 2015 (UTC)
 * If you mean the VisualEditor, it is so takavíhki it is barely usable anyway. :P 77topaz (talk) 07:46, April 25, 2015 (UTC)
 * Haahah :P --O u WTB 16:07, April 24, 2015 (UTC)


 * I prefer using surnames first! I will do it from now. Wabba The I (talk) 20:03, April 24, 2015 (UTC)

Would you all please continue to discuss this, and perhaps more importantly, add your views to the small party debate. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 01:14, April 28, 2015 (UTC)
 * As it stands, it seems we got a two to one majority for surnames though :o --O u WTB 08:21, April 28, 2015 (UTC)
 * using surnames, it'll be a pain to change all the pages though. --Semyon 15:25, April 28, 2015 (UTC)

Ed Balls
--Semyon 22:59, April 28, 2015 (UTC)
 * :o --O u WTB 23:01, April 28, 2015 (UTC)

Ed Balls :o —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 23:10, April 28, 2015 (UTC)