Forum:The Pub

__NEWSECTIONLINK__

nl:Forum:De kroegli:Forum:De Kaffeero:RoWikicity:Cafeneasv:Forum:Krogen Welcome to The Pub! This is the general meeting place in Lovia. Inhabitants can make public announcements, have a friendly chat with some copatriots, or discuss crucial issues in Lovian politics or business. Speeches can also be made at Speakers' Corner. All archives of The Pub can be found here. Don't forget to check out the news on the main page!

Do you want Lovia back?
I do. Just want to see who is willing to join me on the journey to activity. Kunarian TALK 15:20, April 4, 2016 (UTC)
 * The thought of Lovia becoming active again is surely a very wonderful one :o --QytokantFRÅGOR??? 15:28, April 4, 2016 (UTC)
 * 4kant! Long time no see! :D Yes. It would be, I hope that we get a reply from all of the others and then I'll put my plan to you all and then things can be done to make that a reality. :D Kunarian TALK 15:30, April 4, 2016 (UTC)
 * I'm in :o --O u WTB 10:08, April 5, 2016 (UTC)
 * I can help too if you want Niels20020 (talk) 13:26, April 5, 2016 (UTC)

Maybe... we should void the previous state elections if this occurs. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 21:58, April 4, 2016 (UTC)

Well here's a little sneak peak at the changes that would occur. We would expand onto Reddit, advertise around and streamline the political system. This wiki would become a proper wiki. It would remain a creative place where we can document Lovia and expand upon what has been written. Reddit would become the place where we do debates, voting and the like. This system is based on model parliaments that have succeeded on Reddit and are only now going onto wikis e.g:.

Additionally we would slowly implement official positions again until we had enough people to fill them. Starting with the Federal level and working towards filling all positions at a State level. We would change up things in terms of how Lovia is organised but ultimately it would be a new starting point to work from while we got things set up.

I'll try and bring some more concrete stuff in the coming days. Kunarian TALK 17:56, April 6, 2016 (UTC)
 * You got my attention :o --O u WTB 10:04, April 7, 2016 (UTC)
 * That sounds very nice. I would really like to be part of this project Niels20020 (talk) 16:30, April 7, 2016 (UTC)
 * This looks really interesting. I like it! Lancededcena Phaluhm Phoueck.png Ostrobia.png 16:58, April 7, 2016 (UTC)
 * What's the advantage to holding debates etc. on Reddit instead of on the wiki? 77topaz (talk) 06:10, April 8, 2016 (UTC)
 * Reddits have much greater exposure than wikis on the whole, meaning that we would be far more likely to get new users out of the blue. Additionally Reddit's format makes it easier to hold big debates (one example: no edit conflicts) and makes it easier to highlight current events. Additionally elections on Reddit can be done using Reddit software meaning we can eliminate sock puppets and have secret but legitimate ballots. In this way we make Lovia a far better democracy and a far more organised project than it ever could be on a wiki. Kunarian TALK 07:02, April 8, 2016 (UTC)

This weekend I'll give you guys some more info and create Reddits for this project. Kunarian TALK 07:02, April 8, 2016 (UTC)
 * Very good! Do I have to make a Reddit account in that case? --O u WTB 15:04, April 8, 2016 (UTC)
 * Yeah, just call yourself Ooswesthoesbes for our sakes :L Kunarian TALK 19:25, April 8, 2016 (UTC)
 * :o You patronizing me? :'( --O u WTB 08:11, April 9, 2016 (UTC)

I irrationally dislike the idea of expanding on to reddit. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 05:42, April 10, 2016 (UTC)
 * Why are you always opposed to everything? I irrationally dislike your anger :'( --O u WTB 10:02, April 10, 2016 (UTC)

I think my concern is that this medium is kind of core to the concept of Lovia, I wouldn't want to change it. Anyway I am not that interested in realistic political debate. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 15:23, April 10, 2016 (UTC)
 * Well, we should try something to get activity levels up. Talking about reactivating the wiki only works for about two weeks and then it gets inactive again :o --O u WTB 10:23, April 11, 2016 (UTC)

Tbh I don't think we should stop modernisation of Lovia's interaction for the sake of one member when this wiki which is a goldmine of interesting lore is going unseen and underused. Btw this weekend coming the big presentation of the proposal will occur. Kunarian TALK 22:14, April 12, 2016 (UTC)

You think we can really find enough others out there? It's worth a try anyways, but if we've barely been able to attract others from all of wikia, seems kind of tough. 18:18, April 16, 2016 (UTC)

So... Where's the big presentation? :o --O u WTB 14:22, April 18, 2016 (UTC)
 * Nema :'( --QytokantFRÅGOR??? 14:43, April 18, 2016 (UTC)

My opinion is that we have centered to much around politics. In order to have a healthy wikination you need to have business life too. We need to expand our view in other fields and not only focus on poliitcs. Bart K (talk) 15:53, April 20, 2016 (UTC)

I hope there will be a reddit Pierlot McCrooke 09:53, April 21, 2016 (UTC)

2016 DSH Bombings
'''At April 9, 2016, a series of bombings occured around Dauham Sammar Hazaham. At 2:35PM, a bomb was detonated at Phaluhm Airport Terminal 1, killing 26 people and injuring 51 people. At 3:12PM, a bomb was detonated outside the Grand Central station, killing 7 people and injuring 21, and at 5:47PM, a bomb was detonated at Islatealla metro station, which was hardest hit, killing 152 people, injuring 72 and costed an estimate of Ш400,000,000 in damages.''' - --Lancededcena  20:26, April 9, 2016 (UTC)

I hate Phaluhm Phoeck, it has a really irritating name and is invading this wiki and cluttering it. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 05:43, April 10, 2016 (UTC)
 * You wanna have sex? :3 --O u WTB 10:11, April 10, 2016 (UTC)
 * I agree with TimeMaster. I do not hate it (I'm even an admin on the wiki) but I too don't like it's invading this wiki with all that news. If we wanna know news about Phaluhm Phoueck, we just visit the wiki. Niels20020 (talk) 12:15, April 10, 2016 (UTC)
 * For that, I propose an IWO Central News Agency, that way everyone could publish news without going to individuals wiki. However you'll need to request to edit. To request, you'll need your email address. http://iwocentralnewsagency.blogspot.co.uk/  Lancededcena Phaluhm Phoueck.png Ostrobia.png 11:20, April 17, 2016 (UTC)
 * I think that's a good idea! I would like to place Patriam news on it. There's only one problem for me: my parents installed an internet filter, which blocks the webpage. It says there is pornography on the website, so I can't visit it :o Do you have any idea how this is possible? Niels20020 (talk) 13:04, April 17, 2016 (UTC)
 * Icna1.png hosted in blogger so thats probably why. Nothing pornographic in the website... Lancededcena Phaluhm Phoueck.png Ostrobia.png 13:19, April 17, 2016 (UTC)
 * And its no problem, just tell me what you want to put down and I will publish it.Lancededcena Phaluhm Phoueck.png Ostrobia.png 14:33, April 17, 2016 (UTC)\
 * Ah, okay. I can ask my parents to unblock the website, so I will join when they unblocked it Niels20020 (talk) 17:50, April 17, 2016 (UTC)
 * The website is unblocked! How can I register a account for the Patriam News? Niels20020 (talk) 19:23, April 18, 2016 (UTC)
 * You will need to give me your email address so I can add you as an editor. Lancededcena Phaluhm Phoueck.png Ostrobia.png 21:49, April 18, 2016 (UTC)
 * If you want some news, check out the government formation in Brezonde. 6 months since the election and still no new mayor. Espada_Transparent.png Bugatti_transparent.png Transparent_Metropolitan.png Porsche_Transparent.png Transparent_Itala.png Transparent_Goggo.png 21:04, April 23, 2016 (UTC)

IWO/Wikination exercises
Do you think it is within our realm of possibility to host some sort of military exercises? 13:00, April 17, 2016 (UTC)

New user
Hello, I'm a new user here, from the Solar Light & Lunar Dark wiki. I've taken a look at this wiki. MyOwnBadSelf (talk) 02:51, June 1, 2016 (UTC)


 * Welcome! Niels20020 (talk) Flag_of_Patriam.png Patriam Christian Party logo.png 10:08, June 1, 2016 (UTC)

Buonasera delle Stati Uniti
I am on holiday here, and do have the internets. 21:09, June 21, 2016 (UTC)

I hate Horton and how he stole Cettatie. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 17:23, June 22, 2016 (UTC)

And that stupid unsightly signature too. I hate Horton so fucking much! —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 17:35, June 22, 2016 (UTC)
 * Let's solve this problem the Burenian way: nuke Horton's mykefötakavíhki signature :P --QytokantFRÅGOR??? 19:14, June 22, 2016 (UTC)
 * Well there was a point to the signature, and it seems to be working, though we could do without the attitude there, TIme. Espada_Transparent.png Bugatti_transparent.png Transparent_Metropolitan.png Porsche_Transparent.png Transparent_Itala.png Transparent_Goggo.png 21:29, June 22, 2016 (UTC)
 * And if you are getting into Cettatie, remember I am the one that did most of the work developing the wiki, the pages, the content, design, and others users have worked to create a nice little wiki out of it with periods of good activity and development. Espada_Transparent.png Bugatti_transparent.png Transparent_Metropolitan.png Porsche_Transparent.png Transparent_Itala.png Transparent_Goggo.png 21:31, June 22, 2016 (UTC)

I am not getting into it because you ruined it. Ugh that awful sig! —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 00:11, June 23, 2016 (UTC)

Britain really got me thinking
What about our IWO? Or more specifically our membership in it. I added this article in the Cape Times to get you guys thinking (and discussing).


 * ''25 June - Koningstad mayor Karen House announced Friday that it may < > to reconsider Brunant's membership in the International Wiki Organisation. Speaking after news of Britain's projected EU exit, she said the IWO was in a much worse state of affairs compared to the EU and that Brunant was getting nothing out of being a member. She argued that the IWO was a < > that could never agree on passing any amount of legislation, easily solvable by the use of bilateral cooperation.


 * Asked why she has been the first significant person to propose such an exit, she stated that Koningstad bore most of Brunant's contributions due to being the most populous city, and that said moneys would be better off being spent towards other urban projects. No other major politician has spoken up against the IWO as of yet, nor has House's political party, the Social Democratic Party, determined a stance on this debate.

20:15, June 25, 2016 (UTC)
 * IWO does not require contributions. --O u WTB 15:58, June 26, 2016 (UTC)
 * Lovia should not leave. From what I've managed to find out in my short time on this wiki, the IWO provides a benefit to all its member states. MyOwnBadSelf (talk) 23:13, June 26, 2016 (UTC)

Brunant should have a referendum to leave that passes by exactly 1 vote, because IWO is bad because immigrants. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 04:51, June 27, 2016 (UTC)

IWO poll
Should Lovia leave the IWO? Yes No Should be considered


 * One question: Why? MyOwnBadSelf (talk) 05:24, July 1, 2016 (UTC)

Lovians involved with military efforts
What are your guyses thoughts on Lovians participating in multinational/foreign military or security efforts? As it seems we wont have a military ever. 19:19, August 2, 2016 (UTC)
 * Don't we have enough issues in our own country? I don't think it would make sense to send troops abroad :P --O u WTB 05:40, August 3, 2016 (UTC)
 * I don't mean troops abroad. For that we'd need an army. I mean as in Lovians going abroad, like individuals joining another army or going to fight against islamists, say. Espada_Transparent.png Bugatti_transparent.png Transparent_Metropolitan.png Porsche_Transparent.png Transparent_Itala.png Transparent_Goggo.png 11:28, August 3, 2016 (UTC)
 * We don't have a lot of muslims though :o --O u WTB 17:30, August 3, 2016 (UTC)
 * Neither did many of the country who fought armed islamists in the past 15 years. HORTON11 Bugatti_1921.png 21:57, October 15, 2016 (UTC)

Hey
Busy with classes, big test on my democracies class thursday but have a few easy days. 20:15, October 7, 2016 (UTC)
 * Great, so you gon' become more active on Burenia? :o --O u WTB 08:09, October 8, 2016 (UTC)
 * Yes of course, if Burenia is ever invaded by anyone. Espada_Transparent.png Bugatti_transparent.png Transparent_Metropolitan.png Porsche_Transparent.png Transparent_Itala.png Transparent_Goggo.png 13:48, October 8, 2016 (UTC)

Trump
Lmfao —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 12:05, November 9, 2016 (UTC)
 * I'm so glad he became president. Yet another confirmation that Americans are the stupidest people on the earth :P --O u WTB 12:09, November 9, 2016 (UTC)
 * Well, apart from Lovians. :P --Semyon 13:16, November 9, 2016 (UTC)
 * :o Lovians ain't stupid, they just takavíhki :P --O u WTB 16:47, November 9, 2016 (UTC)
 * Well the IWO feels a bit optimistic. Maybe too optimistic or can't think of any words to insult them cause now he is the president. Article.  Lancededcena Phaluhm Phoueck.png Ostrobia.png 17:35, November 9, 2016 (UTC)

Looks like Clinton won the popular vote too. RIP. Next up in surprise right wing victories: Marine Le Pen. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 20:15, November 9, 2016 (UTC)
 * :o Trump is cute though :o --O u WTB 09:35, November 10, 2016 (UTC)
 * He's not though :o But Geert kinda is :o Not really though :P —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 19:48, November 10, 2016 (UTC)
 * As a Belgian, I am afraid about the elections in Germany, France, Austria en the Netherlands next year and Trump being the President-elect is not that worse, but his cabinet and the Republican majority in Congress... Wabba The I (talk) 16:28, November 11, 2016 (UTC)
 * @ Marine - that better never happen. HORTON11 Bugatti_1921.png 19:56, November 11, 2016 (UTC)
 * Yeah, Juppé will probably take her down. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 02:16, November 12, 2016 (UTC)
 * I think Le Pen as president is plausible. Unlikely, sure, but I thought that about Trump and (to a lesser extent) Brexit. If it does happen, that really is the end of the EU. --Semyon 16:39, November 12, 2016 (UTC)
 * I think Juppé who will almost certainly get centre-right nomination is running much more ahead of her than Clinton ever was ahead of Trump though. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 17:34, November 12, 2016 (UTC)

Real Life Meet-up for 10th Anniversary
Anyone interested in doing this? If so, we should start planning very early so we can maximize the number of us that can be there, both by planning schedules and by having enough time to remember this site, visit it, and find this discussion. As such, I've decided to post this now. Anyway: I think the site was created on August 20th (per Special:Log/rights), but I don't want to miss the total solar eclipse in the US the next day, so a bit earlier in August would be better for me. I think we agreed that near or in London would be a good place a few years ago, but perhaps someone else has a suggestion. Please post anything relevant. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 01:01, December 28, 2016 (UTC)
 * I think it's a fun idea, and if someone fixes a date I can make I'm willing to travel a good way to get there. I don't particularly care about the 10th anniversary of the site, but in general the summer of 2018 sounds sensible. Re location, I think we have more users from mainland Europe than from the UK, so somewhere like Belgium might be a better option. It depends exactly which users want to take part, though. --Semyon 11:29, December 28, 2016 (UTC)

I think an English speaking country would be best as Lovia is in English. But if this prevents more Dutch/Belgian users from coming than Brits if it were in the Netherlands or Belgium, then I am fine with having it in one of those countries. How does the weekend of August 12 2017 work for everyone? We will need to find a place to host this. Does anyone have any thoughts on that matter? I am on mobile but I will edit more later. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 17:55, December 28, 2016 (UTC)

We will need: Place to meet (anyone have or know a place?), time and date to meet, an idea of what we are going to do when we meet (e.g. what does "meet" entail), and ways to contact as many people as possible. Perhaps we should make a forum for this. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 22:23, December 28, 2016 (UTC)
 * @place: I propose a pub, or cafe. Alternatively, a park bench, because it should be warm outside. @time/date: I haven't planned so far into the future, so the date you proposed works for me, in theory. But I think we should keep it as flexible as possible until more people reply. @what to do: I think eating/drinking something together is about as ambitious as is reasonable, perhaps also wandering around the city where we meet. @contacting people: other than those who still check here regularly, we can contact a few people by email or Facebook. --Semyon 13:31, December 29, 2016 (UTC)
 * I think, in general, the summer of 2018 is good as long as I know it early enough I can get it arranged.
 * About the hosting country, for the American population, I don't think Belgium/Netherlands/England is that much of a difference. Next to all people in Flanders/the Netherlands are able to communicate in English, so I don't see that as an issue. England's fine with me too providing I can pay for it :3 --O u WTB 15:57, December 29, 2016 (UTC)
 * @summer of 2018: actually, I realised TM meant the summer of 2017 i.e. this summer. Forgot the wiki was founded in 2007 and not 2008. :P
 * @language: I sort of assumed TM realised that already, but probably worth mentioning. Overall, I suspect Belgium/Netherlands is going to be more practical, but England is certainly still a possibility. --Semyon 16:34, December 29, 2016 (UTC)

Yes, I assumed you had made a typo, Semyon. 2017, yes. Assuming that the weekend is preferable to the users who work, I would like to know if August 12th or 13th works for people. If not, please suggest an alternate date. The first US total solar eclipse in 38 years is actually exactly 10 years after Dimitri's first edit here, interestingly, so I want to avoid the 19th or 20th. I want to never go into a pub proper during my lifetime for some reason. But a café or park bench would definitely work. I'm not sure how a typical real life meet-up goes for other sites, lol. About the language issue, I hate feeling like the "Ugly American", who expects locals to speak English for them, etc., which is wrong as there should be no world language that wasn't constructed. If I were to go to Flanders or the Netherlands, I would feel compelled to learn Dutch, but I don't actually want to do that. Oos, could you contact Magnus, Dimitri, Yuri, and others you know, and direct them here? —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 17:45, December 29, 2016 (UTC)
 * As a Brit, I understand that feeling completely. But you should realise that a foreign tourist in the Low Countries isn't actually expected to speak Dutch (sad as that might be), and no-one thinks the worse of you for speaking English. Likewise, a Dutch speaker doesn't have any compunction about speaking English if they're visiting, say, Poland or Finland. --Semyon 18:35, December 29, 2016 (UTC)
 * I thought so. I don't want to be part of the problem of English's unfair dominance over other languages though. I am on chat. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 18:44, December 29, 2016 (UTC)

Wow didn't actually expect there to be much interest in actually having a meetup. It would be cool if we could get some of the old guard. After Oos and Semyon i'm the next oldest around but i only consider those active before 2011 as the old guard. HORTON11  21:37, December 29, 2016 (UTC)
 * Oos has contacted Dimi and Yuri. I have contacted Marcus. It seems Magnus is in the Philippines but we can contact him too, and perhaps some others. I think I would put you and Marcus in a sort of middle guard though. Please give us your thoughts on the rest of this section. We can also add you on Facebook later if you want. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 22:03, December 29, 2016 (UTC)
 * I don't count myself as old guard, but i am one of the gold guard period, before the Magnus trial and the start of the end. Well hopefully this can work out. My life is probably gonna change in the next months but will see what happens. HORTON11 Bugatti_1921.png 22:09, December 29, 2016 (UTC)
 * How does August 12-13 of 2017 as well as London work for you? But you were only there for a few months before the trial and I recall you being disliked by Dimitri and such for your articles. I think of the end of the Magnus trial as the dividing part of the wiki into part 1 and part 2, since so many users left and joined shortly afterward. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 22:12, December 29, 2016 (UTC)
 * Not sure about the dates atm and London is too expensive. Ideally as far as Paris works for me, but if need be i can make it to Belgium. Still, well see what the future's like.
 * @Dimi - Not disliked but of course i was a bit of a noob to the wiki when i joined; i think edward disliked me most, or was at least a little annoyed at first, but he did like that my sister was from his region iirc. Still, i was there during Lovia's golden period, back when monaco was the skin (and a really good one too). HORTON11 Bugatti_1921.png 22:24, December 29, 2016 (UTC)
 * How expensive is it to travel to Paris vs to London and to, say, Amsterdam? —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 22:34, December 29, 2016 (UTC)

Wow. Long time no see, Lovia. Not sure if the dates or location would work out, but it's still a cool idea. So much has changed since I was the little 14 year old writing articles about Marcel Cebara. Let me know when you guys are on chat, we could always add each other on Facebook if it's easier to keep in touch that way Frijoles333 TALK 22:41, December 29, 2016 (UTC)
 * Come on chat now. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 22:45, December 29, 2016 (UTC)

A summary from chat today: We seem to have agreed that somewhere close to Amsterdam would be a better location, as it is less expensive than London (and as a bonus, further encourages Yuri and Dimi to come). No one has any objections to the weekend of August 12/13 relative to any other dates. That's about it, actually. Flights are stupid expensive, I don't see any direct flights from Detroit under $1000. If only I lived in New York (or another place serviced by Icelandic), lol. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 02:53, December 30, 2016 (UTC)

Unfortunately, 12-13 August 2017 falls within my university term. :( 77topaz (talk) 21:55, December 30, 2016 (UTC)
 * Would you come if it didn't? :O --Semyon 23:34, December 30, 2016 (UTC)
 * Well, I will probably visit the Netherlands at some point in the next few years... :P But, yeah, the distance is a problematic factor. 77topaz (talk) 06:24, December 31, 2016 (UTC)
 * So you gon' visit Qyto and me at some point in the next few years? :o --O u WTB 08:29, December 31, 2016 (UTC)

I may need to change my plans for the summer for this but we'll see :o --QytokantFRÅGOR??? 13:49, January 8, 2017 (UTC)
 * :o —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 17:16, January 8, 2017 (UTC)
 * You mean not going to Sweden for once in your life? :o --O u WTB 12:36, January 9, 2017 (UTC)
 * Yeah, or at least not spending the entire summer vacation there :o Alternatively, we could have this meet-up in Sweden :P --QytokantFRÅGOR??? 14:29, January 9, 2017 (UTC)
 * Not opposed. :P --Semyon 14:48, January 9, 2017 (UTC)
 * Pro if we get to stay in your sommarstuga :o --O u WTB 17:16, January 9, 2017 (UTC)
 * So, Sweden it is then? :o --QytokantFRÅGOR??? 18:47, January 9, 2017 (UTC)
 * :o --O u WTB 09:26, January 10, 2017 (UTC)


 * We can create a page where we can all seperatly post the dates we are available or not. Wabba The I (talk) 15:02, January 10, 2017 (UTC)
 * In reply to this unjustly ignored comment, a Doodle might be better for that. Though the date TM proposed hasn't met with any major opposition yet, so it might be easier to stick with that. --Semyon 18:10, February 1, 2017 (UTC)

Kunarian here. Interested as always. Maybe I'll stick to my plans this time ;D - will sign properly once I'm home 15:21, February 1, 2017 (UTC)
 * Good to hear! :) --Semyon 18:10, February 1, 2017 (UTC)

We need ideas on what to do once we arrive in Amsterdam (?) plus an exact place to meet as well. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 17:28, February 1, 2017 (UTC)

Take advantage of the opportunities afforded by Amsterdam? --Semyon 17:46, February 1, 2017 (UTC) Kidding. Though others are welcome to, of course; I won't be.
 * By 'opportunities' do you mean what the Dutch call de wiet? :o FictiveJ 22:47, February 1, 2017 (UTC)
 * That's one of them, yes. --Semyon 23:05, February 1, 2017 (UTC)
 * I have to say, I really dislike it when foreigners stereotype Amsterdam as a city of marijuana and brothels, considering how many beautiful historical buildings and museums the city has. It deserves to be known for those instead! 77topaz (talk) 07:59, February 11, 2017 (UTC)
 * That's so true. I've never myself been there, but I have seen many photos, and the Dutch seem to be amazing at architecture. If anything, maybe 'opportunities' really means the Concertgebouw or something. MyOwnBadSelf (talk) 08:13, February 11, 2017 (UTC)
 * I'd prefer Montfort over Amsterdam, after all, it's just a three hour travelling distance from Amsterdam :o --O u WTB 11:38, February 11, 2017 (UTC)
 * @Topaz: that's an understandable sentiment. It was a dumb joke. --Semyon 21:55, February 11, 2017 (UTC)
 * @Ooswesthoesbes: You prefer a place of 3,000 people to a world city of 900,000? MyOwnBadSelf (talk) 22:10, February 11, 2017 (UTC)
 * There's nowhere like home. ;) --Semyon 22:19, February 11, 2017 (UTC)
 * We've got castle ruins and my local pub though :o --O u WTB 10:42, February 12, 2017 (UTC)
 * OK, and what of the large crucifixes that lie about town? MyOwnBadSelf (talk) 22:58, February 12, 2017 (UTC)

Related note
I have created a Facebook group for discussing this (and anything else). If you want to join, let me know! :) --Semyon 18:10, February 1, 2017 (UTC)
 * what is the name Pierlot McCrooke 18:23, February 1, 2017 (UTC)
 * It's a secret group; it's maybe a little more inconvenient, but I prefer that. I'm on chat if you'd like a link. --Semyon 18:54, February 1, 2017 (UTC)

Corporation
Is it possible in Lovia to have a big corporation with many different markets? Like real-life Virgin, for instance? MyOwnBadSelf (talk) 07:42, February 11, 2017 (UTC)

Well, there used to be some of those, like GoYou, but they eventually got deleted/retconned because they were thought to be too unrealistically large. 77topaz (talk) 07:57, February 11, 2017 (UTC)


 * Shame, that. What if I just started in one business, like with Top Town Publishing I was thinking of expanding to a record label (for new musicians). Sort of like how Virgin got started in real life, in the early 1970s. MyOwnBadSelf (talk) 07:58, February 11, 2017 (UTC)
 * I think that's fine as long as you keep in mind that we're just a small nation. So no multimillion dollar profits and thousands of employees etc. --O u WTB 11:37, February 11, 2017 (UTC)

Our economy is estimated to be above 8 billion and below 9 billion in size. If you assume that one company can grow to even be as big as Apple in comparison to the American economy then they can achieve a value of 340 million (unlikely, I'd imagine half of this would be the most). So there will be multi-million dollar companies with the largest probably having over a thousand employees.

Oos and Topaz mention GoYou however there's also the unresolved case of Costello Enterprises. A company that claims to have a value equal to a third of the Lovian economy and almost ten thousand employees. There's nothing wrong with creating a company that is successful however it's good decorum to create one that isn't taking up whole percentages of Lovia's GDP, let alone a third. Kunarian TALK 21:03, February 11, 2017 (UTC)
 * Also in real life I work for a company that has a revenue of 40 million+ and a profit of around a million. We have about 300 employees, most employees would agree we're overstaffed (we have lots of projects that haven't paid off yet). The profitable part of the company that generates about 35 million of the revenue only has about 100 employees. The point being that revenue, profit and number of employees don't always go hand in hand. And you should try and create a company that's interesting not necessarily just "THE BEST". Have fun making TTP! Kunarian TALK 21:06, February 11, 2017 (UTC)


 * Fine. MyOwnBadSelf (talk) 22:32, February 11, 2017 (UTC)
 * What's Lovia's GDP? MyOwnBadSelf (talk) 22:33, February 11, 2017 (UTC)
 * Kunarian above estimated the size of Lovia's economy to be between 8 billion and 9 billion (USD, I assume?). 77topaz (talk) 23:12, February 11, 2017 (UTC)
 * Yus. Which is modest tbh. But it does mean Lovia has an economy the size of Madagascar I believe. Kunarian TALK 23:26, February 11, 2017 (UTC)
 * I'm not surprised. We only have about 220,000 inhabitants. MyOwnBadSelf (talk) 00:09, February 12, 2017 (UTC)
 * Well they're certainly better off than than the 22 million people who live in Madagascar. The average Lovian is about as wealthy as the average Italian. But for interesting comparison the average Lovian is about 20,000 dollars worse off than the average American, about 10,000 dollars worse off than the average Canadian but about 18,000 dollars better off than the average Mexican. Kunarian TALK 07:22, February 13, 2017 (UTC)

Farewell Frijoles!
Most of you will have seen this in the Facebook group by now, but I am planning to abandon this account, and make all future edits through my new account (User:BenGabriel).

I want a fresh start as Lovia moves into its second decade, and I also want a better username. It's also worth pointing out that several others have previously taken the step of switching accounts after a long period of absence from the wiki.

I'm just posting this little message here to confirm the news. I will be posting in the First Chamber soon about my plans for this new chapter of Lovia's life.

All the best, Frijoles333 TALK 19:45, February 17, 2017 (UTC)

You are able to change your username by request. Happy65 (Talk) (Contribs) 19:50, February 17, 2017 (UTC)


 * I know that, but I just feel like making a new account anyway --BenGabriel (talk) 19:52, February 17, 2017 (UTC)
 * (edc) That's a good point. Ben did say he wanted a fresh start, though. --Semyon 19:53, February 17, 2017 (UTC)

Woah! Hold on a minute!!! There's a FACEBOOK GROUP??? How long has this been going on and how is it I was not aware of this? Oh, the heartbreak... King Sebastian I of Lovia (talk) 07:49, February 18, 2017 (UTC)
 * You were invited to join, I believe. --Semyon 08:25, February 18, 2017 (UTC)
 * @Frijoles: :o @TMV: I invited you but you ignored it :'( --O u WTB 09:43, February 18, 2017 (UTC)

Town map
What's going to happen to them? MyOwnBadSelf (talk) 21:54, February 17, 2017 (UTC)
 * They will remain though :o --O u WTB 09:44, February 18, 2017 (UTC)
 * This. Definitely for now, but maybe changing residential bits to cul-de-sacs and the like. Kunarian TALK 11:08, February 18, 2017 (UTC)
 * Not a major pro of that though. We invested a lot of time in the creation of the maps and I think the compactness is rather cute :o --O u WTB 12:30, February 18, 2017 (UTC)
 * All I mean is changing it from the current situation of this:


 * To this, basically a small residential area representing a collection of houses and streets:


 * It would also give us the opportunity to possibly turn them into links with pages and be creative with them, giving them character and history. Kunarian TALK 13:15, February 18, 2017 (UTC)
 * It would require me to refind out my paint skills on Cartolovia though :o --O u WTB 13:25, February 18, 2017 (UTC)

Implementing this system would require a radical change. In my perspective it would require a full overhaul in the way our settlements are arranged. I am very much opposite to implementing a half/halfway system which I see you are describing here. However, I do see that the old system does not match in character. This is not a good solution in my opinion. Bart K (talk) 17:38, February 18, 2017 (UTC)

I think we should wait until after the elections to implement any changes of this stature. Happy65 (Talk) (Contribs) 17:40, February 18, 2017 (UTC)

Maybe we could create larger-scale (and thereby more realistic) maps in the fashion of Mäöres or Harvia? 77topaz (talk) 20:09, February 18, 2017 (UTC)
 * 77topaz: I like that idea. MyOwnBadSelf (talk) 22:22, February 18, 2017 (UTC)
 * I'd be fine with that as well. Kunarian TALK 14:53, February 20, 2017 (UTC)

Some words of Hope, Love & Encouragement from your King
Dear citizens of Lovia. You are all still very dear to me. I know I have been absent for the last few years. It pains me to see how inactive things became in my absence. I can only assume this is due to my leaving, as I understand I was a very popular and beloved figure to all, who you regarded as some sort of Father figure and deeply and genuinely respected. Alas, it was not meant to be. Life took me by surprise. Things happened, and just kept on happening. So as Lovia sunk to a halt, I was not there to turn the tide. Now it turns out, there was no need for me to turn any tides... the wonderful, intelligent and always hilarious citizens of our amazing nation turned the tide all by themselves. I am so very proud of you all, for that. For your hard work in restoring the nation after the devastating effects of the Civil War. And most especially for your activity, that allowed for a recent comeback to take place. For some reason this always occurs around election time. I wonder, why. I guess power really is like a drug. And progress, in all its many facets, addictive.

This coming elections I keep my eye on several of the members running. I watch you all closely. I cannot, as a King, in good conscience support any candidate personally. Nor can I endorse any politician personally, although I very much wish I could so I would help my very talented and very charismatic friend Oos to prevail. Regardless of the limits of my position, however, I am still very much invested in you all. Emotionally invested. Spiritually invested.

I pray to God, for all of us, and for our Nation above all else, to be blessed for all of eternity. For fair election and a positive outcome. And for a restoration of our beloved nation to its former glory. So that it may once again remind us all, and the world anxiously eyeing our every move, of the glory days of ancient Rome.

Loving signed,

-King Sebastian I of Lovia (talk) 07:25, February 18, 2017 (UTC)
 * --O u WTB 09:45, February 18, 2017 (UTC)

Long live the King! Kunarian TALK 11:10, February 18, 2017 (UTC)

Yeh! Long live the King Aesopos (talk) 14:29, February 18, 2017 (UTC)

Short live the King. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 17:12, February 18, 2017 (UTC)


 * MyOwnBadSelf (talk) 22:22, February 18, 2017 (UTC)

:o
Why am I unable to edit the Citizen page? --BenGabriel (talk) 11:44, February 19, 2017 (UTC)
 * It's been protected so that new users can't edit it. You can edit it with your Frijoles account. --Semyon 12:00, February 19, 2017 (UTC)

Federal election polling (The Sofasi Courier)
The Sofasi Courier is polling ahead of the election.

In the upcoming federal elections, who will you give your major vote? Centrist Solution 2 Communist Party of Lovia (neo-marxist) 1 Conservative Christian Party of Lovia 5 Conservative Nationalist Party 3 Green Party 2 United Left 1 Independent 0 Other 1

In the upcoming federal elections, who will you give your minor vote? Centrist Solution 1 Communist Party of Lovia (neo-marxist) 1 Conservative Christian Party of Lovia 3 Conservative Nationalist Party 5 Green Party 0 United Left 2 Independent 2 Other 1

In the upcoming federal elections, who will you give your favor vote? Centrist Solution 4 Communist Party of Lovia (neo-marxist) 0 Conservative Christian Party of Lovia 1 Conservative Nationalist Party 0 Green Party 4 United Left 1 Independent 1 Other 4

Are you in favour of an absolute majority, majority coalition or a grand coalition government? Absolute majority 2 Majority coalition 6 Grand coalition 8

Are you in favour of Lovia becoming a republic? Yes 6 No 9

Are you in favour of retaining the Heretow 'Oshenna position? Yes 7 No 8

Which of the following is the most important issue facing Lovia now? Immigration 4 Healthcare 1 Economy 2 Taxation 0 Environment 1 Housing 0 Education 2 Justice 0 Defence 0 Unemployment 1 Transportation 0 Poverty 1 Other 3

Thanks. Happy65 (Talk) (Contribs) 19:50, February 19, 2017 (UTC)

Sofasi Courier? What was wrong with the Newhaven Courier? An attempt to drum up support in Clymene before the elections perhaps? :P --BenGabriel (talk) 20:00, February 19, 2017 (UTC)

Maybe, maybe not :o Happy65 (Talk) (Contribs) 20:03, February 19, 2017 (UTC)

It's been four years...
...since the failed IWO games in 2013 - an entire Olympic cycle. Would anyone be interested in trying to run a new edition, more successfully this time? I recall Oos wanted Mäöres to hold the 2013 games, so if he wants maybe we could hold the new games there? 77topaz (talk) 21:13, February 19, 2017 (UTC)
 * Nah, Mäöres inactive. I think we could best stick to as few wikis as possible now :o --O u WTB 21:23, February 19, 2017 (UTC)
 * If you haven't noticed, I've been editing some pages in Mäöres lately. :o But anyway, then it would make the most sense for Lovia to be the host? 77topaz (talk) 21:36, February 19, 2017 (UTC)
 * Do we have any such sports fields? MyOwnBadSelf (talk) 21:59, February 19, 2017 (UTC)
 * We have quite a few sports fields. :o 77topaz (talk) 22:04, February 19, 2017 (UTC)
 * @Mäöres: :o --O u WTB 22:13, February 19, 2017 (UTC)
 * I think it should be held in Noble City, most of the events. I don't really want to have to speak Limburgish. MyOwnBadSelf (talk) 23:19, February 19, 2017 (UTC)
 * When the 2013 games were proposed, I think the Mäöres bid's supporters said that the IWO Games-related pages would be written in both Limburgish and English. 77topaz (talk) 23:36, February 19, 2017 (UTC)
 * To me it looks like a redundancy to write pages on the IWO Games in English and another language. After all, we all speak English. For this reason I support to hold the IWO Games in an English language wikination, preferably this one. Bart K (talk) 11:31, February 20, 2017 (UTC)
 * Maybe with the addition of è it would sound more Limburgish. :P MyOwnBadSelf (talk) 22:02, February 20, 2017 (UTC)
 * Since when is Noble City hosting this event? Wabba The I (talk) 10:33, February 21, 2017 (UTC)

In Defense of the Heretow
I will write down a few words, dedicated to the defense of the position of Heretow of Oshenna, a position that is close to my heart and a cause that speaks to the hearts and minds of the people of the wonderful state of Oceana. You see, we all need to have heroes growing up. It is through their valiant actions that we learn to find ourselves, and after their admirable behavior that we model our own actions. But we all have to grow up, one day, and often when we do we lose our heroes. Oceana is a very lucky region... for Oceana never lost it's hero: Oos Wes Illava, the Heretow. A man who is, and always has been, like a father to his people. During the Lovian Civil War, it was he who almost singlehandedly fought off those seeking to destroy his people, his lands, his culture. He lead the resistance against their enemies.

So it makes sense, for after the war had come, for the people to give him a position. The position of Heretow. Now I have seen in a recent poll done by a local newspaper, I believe it was a Sofasi based newspaper... that there are voices among the people, who may seek to outlaw not only the monarchy (outrageous and disgusting!) but also this esteemed honorary position, the position of Heretow. To all those who hold such views, especially those outside of Oceana who cannot know the pain and suffering felt by the people of Oceana during those dark days... I urge you, in the strongest words available to man and to me in my position as your King, to reconsider.

There are those who wish to see Lovia become a Republic. Those people have very little historical knowledge, and fail to understand the significance of the monarchy as a tool to bring people together from all layers of society, and embrace each other as brothers and sisters. They fail to understand the great importance of Royalty. And the blood, sweat and tears that my very own ancestors, as well as I myself, have shed to form this nation, and to protect her. Don't forget those hard times, those struggles. Don't deny their existance now that life has become more comfortable and we find ourselves in a more privileged position.

Above all... honor your culture, your values. Your religion. Your faith. Love and honor thy neighbor. Forgive, but never forget. And remember most of all those who gave their lives, so that you are now able to live yours. Allowing you the ability to freely cast your vote. Think deeply. Vote visely.

Long live Lovia!

-King Sebastian I of Lovia (talk) 09:16, February 20, 2017 (UTC)
 * Wise words from a wise man! Lovian traditions are few and CCPL is therefore a major supporter of sticking to our beautiful traditions that bind instead of divide our nation. CCPL is the Heretow and  our King! --O u WTB 09:57, February 20, 2017 (UTC)


 * @King Sebastian I of Lovia: You described Oos Wes Ilava, who supported the Oslobodenia rebel group, as a man 'who almost singlehandedly fought off those seeking to destroy his people, his lands, his culture'. You also said that 'he lead the resistance against their enemies'. Are you describing the Lovian government as the enemy of the Oceana people? Additionally, you described the supporters of the republicanism movement as 'outrageous and disgusting!'. Do you believe the Lovian people should be given another referendum on the matter?


 * @Oos Wes Ilava: The polls seem to show the Lovian public is torn on retaining the Heretow. Whilst you may be the Heretow, do you believe a referendum should be held on the matter? - The Sofasi Courier (Happy65 (Talk) (Contribs) 10:40, February 20, 2017 (UTC))


 * I am personally the position of Heretow. It marginalises women, and the Heretow is not held accountable to the people he represents. But the people of Oceana have spoken, and gave a strong mandate for the position to be retained. Why repeat a referendum so soon, especially when it gave such a decisive result? Let us focus on the issues that truly matter to the average Lovian. --BenGabriel (talk) 12:30, February 20, 2017 (UTC)


 * That's an interesting viewpoint. Do you think people are concerned about the political influence of the Heretow, and feel it would be better to resolve this before proceeding with change particularly in Oceana? - The Sofasi Courier


 * (OOC) Is that perspective from Hugo Mendes (so I know whether to use or not use in my article?) Happy65 (Talk) (Contribs) 13:08, February 20, 2017 (UTC)


 * I think a great deal of people are concerned about the political influence that the Heretow can exercise, even if he does just masquerade as a cuddly father figure. But if the people of Oceana want to spend their tax dollars on something like this, that's their prerogative. In Sylvania we'll be looking for ways to protect our culture in a more inclusive way. We'll keep the power in the hands of the people, not the pesky career politicians. This is all coming from Hugo, by the way. --BenGabriel (talk) 16:13, February 20, 2017 (UTC)
 * Read the Zakone though 'fore you say summing :o The Heretow, unfortunately, don't receive payments from tax collectors :'( --O u WTB 16:15, February 20, 2017 (UTC)

The Lovian Civil War was unrealistic and is the only thing that should be deleted from history Pierlot McCrooke 12:07, February 20, 2017 (UTC)

I have always seen the Heretow and the King as important figures. They provide a stable face for our citizens to turn too and they bring comfort as well as solidarity and unity: the King brings unity to an otherwise divided, torn-up nation and the Heretow brings unity among the Oceana people, who come from many different backgrounds and ethnicities. I for one can tell that I am in favour of the Heretow and the King, even though I am neither Lovian nor Oceana. They help stimulate integration and are key figures in society. Bart K (talk) 13:30, February 20, 2017 (UTC)


 * That's also a very interesting viewpoint. Do you think the Royal Family play an important cultural role and are representative of Lovia throughout the world? May we also use this in our article? Thanks - The Sofasi Courier (Happy65 (Talk) (Contribs) 13:43, February 20, 2017 (UTC))
 * Lovia has been a monarchy since 1875 and the Royal Family shaped the country to what it is now. Unlike a political leader, a monarch stays for a longer time, providing stable relations abroad. Bart K (talk) 14:24, February 20, 2017 (UTC)

Nice to know someone of unfair privilege supports another one of unfair privilege. Anyway, the vote suddenly went from 7 contra heretow to 1 pro to 8 contra to 7 pro. Seems suspicious. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 14:38, February 20, 2017 (UTC)

@Happy: No, the Heretow should stay :'( (said 'cle Oos emotionally :o) @Pierlot: u unrealistic and should be deleted from history though :'( @TM: you rigged the election in favor of me though? :o --O u WTB 15:40, February 20, 2017 (UTC)


 * I am Heretow being used for government control. And I don't like how only a man can be Heretow. However, if this was changed, I would be  keeping the title, but making it purely ceremonial. MyOwnBadSelf (talk) 22:04, February 20, 2017 (UTC)
 * Heretow is purely ceremonial though :o --O u WTB 10:59, February 21, 2017 (UTC)

Secret Ballot?
What are your thoughts on having a secret ballot during voting? Using a questionnaire system like survey monkey or google surveys?

This would also allow for easier control on opening and closing of voting as well as being more democratic and less easy to manipulate.

If going fully secret ballot would worry some people, what about having the secret ballot during voting then having the way people voting posted on the forum to ensure people that the numbers are correct?

One minor advantage of the full secret ballot is that we can have a bit more fun on election night when votes are counted. And people won't give up halfway through because they can see voting in the forum.

Plus I always felt that the public voting was a great way for people to be publicly pressured into voting one way or another.

Thoughts? Kunarian TALK 15:00, February 20, 2017 (UTC)
 * It would be interesting to try it at least once. Obviously, using a forum has the advantage that it's far simpler to do. --Semyon 15:04, February 20, 2017 (UTC)
 * I could show a mock-up at some point this week so that people know what it'd be like to use the system? Kunarian TALK 15:20, February 20, 2017 (UTC)
 * rationale: don't fix if it ain't broken. --O u WTB 15:41, February 20, 2017 (UTC) :o
 * I'm . It would be a great way of preventing vote swapping, which has always riled me up a bit. Maybe we could use a website like Survey Monkey or the like. I'll be interested to see what you come up with, and I might even come up with a few ideas myself :o --BenGabriel (talk) 16:06, February 20, 2017 (UTC)
 * U gay though :'( --O u WTB 16:13, February 20, 2017 (UTC)
 * U cute though ;) --BenGabriel (talk) 16:15, February 20, 2017 (UTC)
 * :3 --O u WTB 16:18, February 20, 2017 (UTC)

I don't see how a secret ballot would prevent vote swapping, or have any other benefits for this wiki in particular (since most people are openly members of political parties anyway), so I'm at the moment. 77topaz (talk) 22:07, February 20, 2017 (UTC)

Secret ballot test
As Kunarian suggested earlier, it might be a good idea to use a secret ballot in future to determine the results of our elections. I took it upon myself to make a quick survey. Please answer it, so we can see how effective it would be to hold an election in this way. Your responses mean nothing, and are just for the purposes of this survey.

If we were to implement this at some point in the future, it would probably be best for a neutral bystander who is well-known in the community (such as Semyon :P) to create and oversee the voting form. Or even a panel of users representing a range of political parties.

Here is the link :o

https://www.surveymonkey.co.uk/r/LBQBFLT

Happy surveying :P --BenGabriel (talk) 17:25, February 20, 2017 (UTC)

I voted 'yes' to question 4, because we need a way of ensuring that each user votes only once and that only eligible voters can vote. A solution would be to include a field in the survey for each user to enter some random phrase, number or gibberish, and then have a wiki forum where these 'passwords' can be posted. Then the person responsible for tallying the votes can check each vote corresponds to a citizen. This is a slightly awkward solution, though I can't think of a better one off the top of my head. --Semyon 17:33, February 20, 2017 (UTC)


 * That sounds like a good solution, but only because I can't think of a better one --BenGabriel (talk) 17:40, February 20, 2017 (UTC)

I'm neutral on the issue and haven't answered the survey you linked. If Semyon is referring to verification, we'd need some way of ensuring the Wikia user is indeed the same person filling in the survey. I'd support either User:Semyon, User:Ooswesthoesbes, User:Horton11 or User:77topaz doing the results. A panel defeats the purpose as for the most part the votes won't be secret. Happy65 (Talk) (Contribs) 17:48, February 20, 2017 (UTC)
 * Tbh I really don't think it matters who you support on this issue. The only true neutral is Semyon, and announcement of results is completely different from the monitoring of the system. Also you seem to miss myself off your list of suggested users, I can only assume it's a lapse in memory. Kunarian TALK 14:23, February 21, 2017 (UTC)

Secret ballot actually requires a change in our constitution, so we should wait until after the elections :o --O u WTB 18:09, February 20, 2017 (UTC) and hopefully u guys forget about this before next year :3
 * Elections are now held every three months, remember? :P 77topaz (talk) 22:09, February 20, 2017 (UTC)

I'm also neutral on the issue. I support the idea in principle, but like you've said, Oos and Happy, there would be quite a few difficulties in implementing it. I'm not necessarily advocating a secret ballot, it's just something interesting to think about --BenGabriel (talk) 18:12, February 20, 2017 (UTC)

I would like some time to bring a proposal forwards. I think I have some solutions. Kunarian TALK 20:22, February 20, 2017 (UTC)


 * Looking forward to seeing them. Hope they catch on better than my survey did :o --BenGabriel (talk) 20:44, February 20, 2017 (UTC)


 * Yes, I think this is takaviki. MyOwnBadSelf (talk) 22:13, February 20, 2017 (UTC)

I should be posting something soon however quite simply the system would work as follows: you click on the survey, type in your username at the beginning (or something resembling it) then vote then post in the federal election forum the message "I voted" with a signature immediately afterwards. There should also be a clear message telling users to vote again if they have have not posted a message immediately afterwards. This verification would work extremely well as it is tied strongly to the wikia account and doesn't add complexity.

Further for making results more fun to get I would want to work with whomever would be the counter (seems like Semyon has been nominated here, although it's down to him not the community whether he does this) to create an interesting way of reporting results so it's like seeing the results come in from a real election. Kunarian TALK 14:23, February 21, 2017 (UTC)

I would rather not do it, actually. (That shouldn't imply I disapprove of the idea, btw.) --Semyon 19:16, February 23, 2017 (UTC)
 * I nominate myself :o It is well-known in the Netherlands that the Limburgish people are one of the most corrupt people in the world; all the corrupt Dutch politicians from Limburg :o Therefore, I think I'm the best pick to whoever got most to offer me :P --O u WTB 19:23, February 23, 2017 (UTC)
 * I think the question is, then, what do *you* have to offer? :P --Semyon 19:25, February 23, 2017 (UTC)
 * Cuteness :3 --O u WTB 19:27, February 23, 2017 (UTC)
 * We all appreciate that already though. :3 --Semyon 19:57, February 23, 2017 (UTC)
 * :3 --O u WTB 20:05, February 23, 2017 (UTC)
 * Anyway, seeing as I've declined to do this task and you have essentially disqualified yourself, Topaz is probably the next choice. --Semyon 20:13, February 23, 2017 (UTC)
 * Tåpas wears glasses though :'( --O u WTB 20:21, February 23, 2017 (UTC)

Massage from your deerest 'cle and Heretow :o
As you gays all are obviously aware, it is vastelaovendj in Limburg :o This means 'cle Oos, your belovèd Heretow, will be slightly offline from this evening onwards 'til 'bout wenzday :o During this short week, he will be digesting serious amounts of fried food and several litres of alcohol :o Please expect your deer 'cle and Heretow, who sent u this massage (:o), to be slightly under influence and less reactiony and publishy than usual :o


 * 'Slightly offline' is beautifully expressed. I commend you on your mastery of the English language. :P --Semyon 19:17, February 23, 2017 (UTC)
 * :o I very good at English though :o I so free in expressin' meself I creative :o --O u WTB 19:19, February 23, 2017 (UTC)
 * Your abandonment of the copula isn't good English, I have to say. --Semyon 19:58, February 23, 2017 (UTC)
 * What you mean? Summing not good when I write English? It clear that not cute :o --O u WTB 20:06, February 23, 2017 (UTC)
 * Yes, I agree. 'Slightly offline' and 'wenzday' were very nice, but the rest of your edits in this section are a little disappointing. --Semyon 20:10, February 23, 2017 (UTC)
 * You patronizing me dhow? :'( --O u WTB 20:20, February 23, 2017 (UTC)
 * No, just helping you. --Semyon 20:23, February 23, 2017 (UTC) Patronising you now though. :P
 * 'Reactiony' and 'publishy'... indeed. MyOwnBadSelf (talk) 21:54, February 23, 2017 (UTC)
 * Granted, Oos sometimes talks like that when he is sober, too. :o 77topaz (talk) 22:18, February 23, 2017 (UTC)
 * Indeed, I think he's sober currently. --Semyon 22:32, February 23, 2017 (UTC)

If this is our sober PM, then what does our drunk PM look like? MyOwnBadSelf (talk) 01:41, February 24, 2017 (UTC)
 * Like this. :o 77topaz (talk) 03:19, February 24, 2017 (UTC)
 * OK. MyOwnBadSelf (talk) 05:28, February 24, 2017 (UTC)
 * I was practically sober when I wrote that yesterday though :o Not when I wrote the oetry thingy though :P --O u WTB 10:55, February 24, 2017 (UTC)

On a related note, I, too, will be away next week, though probably in a noticeably less intoxicated state :o --QytokantFRÅGOR??? 14:17, February 24, 2017 (UTC)
 * Sverige? :o --O u WTB 14:39, February 24, 2017 (UTC)
 * Österrike :o --QytokantFRÅGOR??? 15:51, February 24, 2017 (UTC)
 * Why are you always in Austria? :o --Semyon 15:57, February 24, 2017 (UTC)
 * :o --O u WTB 15:58, February 24, 2017 (UTC)
 * I'm not always in Austria though :o --QytokantFRÅGOR??? 15:59, February 24, 2017 (UTC)
 * That doesn't answer my question dhow. :'( --Semyon 13:22, February 25, 2017 (UTC)
 * Probably cuz he one of those annoying people who misuse their carnaval holiday to go on winter sports dhow. :'( --O u WTB 13:51, February 25, 2017 (UTC)
 * :'( Maybe he should go on holiday on a dhow dhow. :o --Semyon 15:19, February 25, 2017 (UTC)
 * :o --O u WTB 11:56, February 26, 2017 (UTC)
 * Indeed, the Middle East is very nice in March. Before it gets too hot and all. MyOwnBadSelf (talk) 22:01, February 26, 2017 (UTC)

Why has nobody commented on my beautiful photoshop skills though? :'( --O u WTB 14:39, February 24, 2017 (UTC)
 * Because they aren't beautiful :o --QytokantFRÅGOR??? 15:51, February 24, 2017 (UTC)
 * :'( --O u WTB 15:58, February 24, 2017 (UTC)
 * What does that phone screenshot have to do with Photoshop? :o 77topaz (talk) 06:49, February 25, 2017 (UTC)
 * I photoshopt it though :o --O u WTB 11:58, February 25, 2017 (UTC)
 * How did you Photoshop it, then? :o 77topaz (talk) 20:41, February 25, 2017 (UTC)
 * On my phone though :o --O u WTB 11:56, February 26, 2017 (UTC)
 * Taking a screenshot isn't the same as Photoshopping. :o 77topaz (talk) 20:06, February 26, 2017 (UTC)
 * Didn't you zoom in on the picture yet though? :o --O u WTB 12:57, March 2, 2017 (UTC)
 * You added ink stains? Other than that, it looks like a perfectly normal picture of a guy massaging a deer. MyOwnBadSelf (talk) 21:48, March 2, 2017 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I don't see what Oos means, either. 77topaz (talk) 00:56, March 3, 2017 (UTC)
 * I removed a chat header using black pen though :o --O u WTB 09:14, March 3, 2017 (UTC)

IWO
With a lot of new activity on this wiki, I really would like to see the IWO to become real and active. Wabba The I (talk) 19:17, February 27, 2017 (UTC)

IWO imaginary right now? :o —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 19:21, February 27, 2017 (UTC)

Well, it seems to only exist theoretically. The IWO really has not done much. MyOwnBadSelf (talk) 22:16, February 27, 2017 (UTC)

Let's square it and it will become real then. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 01:23, February 28, 2017 (UTC)

Yes, but then IWO will be -1. MyOwnBadSelf (talk) 02:08, February 28, 2017 (UTC)

Ah. Then to make it positive square it again (fourth power in all). —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 03:04, February 28, 2017 (UTC)

Perhaps we could reactivate the IWO Council? 77topaz (talk) 04:48, February 28, 2017 (UTC)
 * Maybe. MyOwnBadSelf (talk) 06:44, February 28, 2017 (UTC)
 * All countries should organise elections for the IWO Council. Some countries already have done this. This could be something great and an opportunity to work on. Wabba The I (talk) 08:58, February 28, 2017 (UTC)

You planning to me the IWO twice? :o --QytokantFRÅGOR??? 21:20, March 4, 2017 (UTC)

Illness
I've been very ill recently. It's the main reason I've not been posting. Hopefully I can sort out the start of nominations tomorrow. Hope everyone else is in better health! Kunarian TALK 23:04, February 28, 2017 (UTC)
 * Get well soon! Bart K (talk) 10:03, March 1, 2017 (UTC)
 * 'Very ill' sounds concerning. I hope you recover soon! --Semyon 10:50, March 1, 2017 (UTC)
 * :'( --O u WTB 12:57, March 2, 2017 (UTC)

You dead now though? :o --O u WTB 14:40, March 2, 2017 (UTC)

Content link
The content link below navigation does not show any contents. I guess it is due to my interface language, which is not English. Can any of the administrators please take a look at this? Bart K (talk) 10:18, March 1, 2017 (UTC)
 * What? :o --O u WTB 12:58, March 2, 2017 (UTC)
 * MediaWiki:Sidebar - "content-url|content" looks broken. Bart K (talk) 19:05, March 2, 2017 (UTC)
 * Sounds like a lot of work though. It really bothering you that much? :o --O u WTB 09:15, March 3, 2017 (UTC)

ELECTIONS ARE OPEN
Candidacy is now open: Forum:Federal elections and Forum:State elections. Kunarian TALK 14:29, March 1, 2017 (UTC)

TheWorldofBingBang's edits
Thoughts? I feel like a lot of them are low qual and perhaps they need to be given a proper explanation of how the wiki works before they create too much work for us to correct. Kunarian TALK 22:00, March 5, 2017 (UTC)
 * Agreed. I don't like all these huge projects. They make no sense in a small country like Lovia. MyOwnBadSelf (talk) 23:07, March 5, 2017 (UTC)
 * Yes, I also agree. A lot of Bingbang's pages makes about as much sense in the context of Lovia as those Masterire made, though at least Bingbang can write English properly. 77topaz (talk) 01:58, March 6, 2017 (UTC)
 * Is it worth giving him a temporary block? MyOwnBadSelf (talk) 02:35, March 6, 2017 (UTC)
 * Well, I warned him on his talk page about his pages' low quality back in November of last year, so possibly it might be. 77topaz (talk) 03:04, March 6, 2017 (UTC)
 * 7 days? MyOwnBadSelf (talk) 03:19, March 6, 2017 (UTC)
 * Maybe. I'd like to see what the other users think first, though, and I can't enforce a block anyway as I am currently not an admin. 77topaz (talk) 04:41, March 7, 2017 (UTC)
 * We should contact the local admin though :o --O u WTB 14:35, March 7, 2017 (UTC)
 * I already did so. :o --Semyon 20:18, March 7, 2017 (UTC)
 * I'd like to put in my 2 cents, but with inflation that probably amounts to 1 euro nowadays ;P Well I personally don't think the quality of his work is all that bad. It can you some expansion/wikifying but it largely is decent stuff. Now, it it mostly in regards to the community that I see the issues. His pages do not fit in with the size and scope of Lovia, or certain hamlets within it. He further has rehashed others' pages, or simply taken them without authorization, which leads me to my third point. He has not responded to messages to improve his work, nor has he made an attempt to integrate himself to the community.
 * So I pose you this question: We're not gonna get any new users and he is an active one. Do we want the high standards of quality the wiki is known for or a newer/active user? HORTON11 Bugatti_1921.png 22:35, March 7, 2017 (UTC)
 * So, you're saying, to block him would be to waste a new user? MyOwnBadSelf (talk) 23:25, March 7, 2017 (UTC)
 * @Horton: Given his behaviours you've outlined above, particularly his refusal to improve or integrate with the community, I don't think Bingbang's presence is currently beneficial for the community or the wiki. 77topaz (talk) 23:44, March 7, 2017 (UTC)
 * Regardless of the low/high quality of his edits (something which can be fixed with help) the most worrying thing is that he's never had a meaningful interaction with another user. He doesn't answer on his talk page. You could hold rather a long conversation with Masterire, by contrast. Obviously, the current users need to make an effort to integrate him into the community, but if it's not possible, then in my view he's harming the wiki rather than helping it. --Semyon 08:38, March 8, 2017 (UTC)

Let's do a poll, like here. MyOwnBadSelf (talk) 10:14, March 8, 2017 (UTC)

I've read this and I think that I agree with feelings expressed on both sides. I suggest we try one last time to contact him and integrate him and if that fails then we protect our wiki. Kunarian TALK 15:57, March 9, 2017 (UTC)

Now he's nominated himself in the federal elections. :o 77topaz (talk) 20:56, March 11, 2017 (UTC)


 * Seemed quite rude about it too, especially became irritated at having to become a citizen. HORTON11 Bugatti_1921.png 21:10, March 11, 2017 (UTC)
 * Yeah. Obviously, if the admins do decide to block him, his candidacy would have to be removed. 77topaz (talk) 21:43, March 11, 2017 (UTC)
 * I was quite surprised. It's fine though, as long as he doesn't make anymore over-the-top articles. MyOwnBadSelf (talk) 22:38, March 11, 2017 (UTC)

Well, he's keeping on with the megalomania. Let's take that poll out. MyOwnBadSelf (talk) 07:54, March 25, 2017 (UTC)

Last day for candidates
In both the Federal elections and State elections, this is the last day to add yourself as a candidate. Voting begins tomorrow. MyOwnBadSelf (talk) 22:11, March 13, 2017 (UTC)
 * I think it's time for a community chase up of people who said they wanted to be involved. Just over 24 hours for the last nominations before voting begins! Kunarian TALK 22:27, March 13, 2017 (UTC)
 * Who were these people? MyOwnBadSelf (talk) 22:46, March 13, 2017 (UTC)

Voting Opens!
Go vote! Kunarian TALK 07:51, March 15, 2017 (UTC)

Federal elections: Forum:Federal elections

State elections: Forum:State elections

Links added. Kunarian TALK 07:57, March 15, 2017 (UTC)

Turnout rates so far (updated - 21:59, March 15, 2017 (UTC)):
 * Federal - 25%
 * Clymene - 23%
 * Kings - 17%
 * Oceana - 45%
 * Seven - 10%
 * Sylvania - 24%


 * States
 * Clymene - n/a
 * Kings - n/a
 * Oceana - 41%
 * Seven - n/a
 * Sylvania - n/a

Turnout rates that will be constantly updated, based on users and their residences. Kunarian TALK 11:06, March 15, 2017 (UTC)


 * I see three states are already decided. To be honest, I wanted to see more competition, but OK. MyOwnBadSelf (talk) 08:22, March 15, 2017 (UTC)
 * It will come, rest assured. We still have the incredibly close issue of your election to see to! Kunarian TALK 09:42, March 15, 2017 (UTC)

I like how our elections start at the same day as the Dutch elections. :) Bart K (talk) 11:18, March 15, 2017 (UTC)
 * It's quite fun isn't it? :D Looks like it could be as close in Oceana as it is in the Netherlands as well! Kunarian TALK 11:19, March 15, 2017 (UTC)
 * Let's hope that centrism wins, both here in Lovia as in the Netherlands! Bart K (talk) 11:23, March 15, 2017 (UTC)


 * Yeah, who are the Turkish people voting for? MyOwnBadSelf (talk) 21:59, March 15, 2017 (UTC)
 * The Turkish people are, basically, voting about whether or not Erdoğan should made be a dictator. :P 77topaz (talk) 07:51, March 16, 2017 (UTC)
 * I meant the Turkish community in Lovia. MyOwnBadSelf (talk) 08:57, March 16, 2017 (UTC)
 * I don't think Lovia has a Turkish community (of any significant size, anyway). :P 77topaz (talk) 09:33, March 16, 2017 (UTC)
 * No we don't. We have Turkish people but they are incredibly few and far between. Our minority "communities" (aka groups that aren't 100% integrated and kind of are a bit different to the rest of Lovia) are different from state to state, so see below this convo for a list. Kunarian TALK 10:01, March 16, 2017 (UTC)
 * If you wanna talk Turks Brunant would have more, though not sure the government would be sending mimisters to speak to them there :p HORTON11 Bugatti_1921.png 15:23, March 16, 2017 (UTC)


 * Lovia
 * Clymene
 * Cornish (2) - Cornish in nature as the name suggests, their local politics makes them hard to predict but it can be assumed they are devolutionist in nature
 * Kings
 * Portlanders (1) - They are incredibly Anglo-Saxon in their culture, very much farming and Christian based, tend to bloc vote for devolutionist/Christian parties
 * Oceana
 * Limburgish (1) - They are not just in Oceana, the population is about half in Oceana and half elsewhere, they get mixed up in the Census of some states as being Dutch, tend to vote for the LMP or devolutionist parties
 * Oceana (2) - about half of the population of the state can be considered part of this grouping, they tend to be incredibly supportive of devolution and many of autonomy or independence
 * Seven
 * Novosevenskians (2) - Despite their history they are somewhat integrated, problem is that half are and half tend to be Novosevenskian nationalists. When they vote they lean heavily towards devolution or Seven nationalist parties
 * Northern Seveners (2-kinda 3 ish) - Seveners not on the two main islands are a bit weird due to the isolated nature of their islands and thus tend to be a bit disconnected, they aren't bloc voters, it's just that they are unlikely to be on board with what people the next island across might be
 * Sylvania
 * Pudlians (2) - They are generally quite disconnected from mainland Lovian opinion, they tend to largely vote for the most libertarian parties

Key:
 * (1) - very separate, bloc voters
 * (2) - slightly separate, half tend to bloc vote, half are in line with Lovian opinion

As you might notice these aren't immigrant groups, just historically groups that have been slow in their integration. Kunarian TALK 10:01, March 16, 2017 (UTC)

Category:Culture contains a number of Lovia's minority communities/cultures. 77topaz (talk) 10:15, March 16, 2017 (UTC)

Election poll for DEMOS 17
For Lovia:

Which party do you most support in the election CNP 1 GP 1 CCPL MCP LMP UL 1 CPL.nm 1 KNPO

Which party is your second choice in the election CNP GP 2 CCPL MCP LMP UL 2 CPL.nm 1 KNPO

For Brunant:

Which party do you most support in the election Social Democratic Party (Social democracy) 1 Christian Democratic Union (Christian democracy) 1 Green Party (Green) Socialist Left Party (Socialism) ECO 17 (Eco/Animal welfare) 1 Free Liberal Party (liberalism) Yes to the Future (Alt-left/republican) P70-Links (Marxist) A Better Brunant (Centrist) Social Anarchy Party (Anarchist) Brunanter People's Party (National conservatism) Brunant Conservatives (Nationalist) 1

Which party is your second choice in the election Social Democratic Party (Social democracy) Christian Democratic Union (Christian democracy) Green Party (Green) Socialist Left Party (Socialism) 1 ECO 17 (Eco/Animal welfare) 1 Free Liberal Party (liberalism) Yes to the Future (Alt-left/republican) P70-Links (Marxist) A Better Brunant (Centrist) Social Anarchy Party (Anarchist) Brunanter People's Party (National conservatism) 1 Brunant Conservatives (Nationalist) 1

Time's Candidacies
I say we allow them this time but not the next. We want people to be involved and Time is a good contributor. Kunarian TALK 20:45, March 16, 2017 (UTC)
 * I think he's a terrible contributor though. --Semyon 21:00, March 16, 2017 (UTC)
 * I think you're a terrible contributor though :o Also you should also put up a candidacy and then we can vote each other :o —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 21:01, March 16, 2017 (UTC)
 * I think you're a terribler contributor though. And indeed, I'm too terrible to put up a candidacy or vote. --Semyon 21:05, March 16, 2017 (UTC)

But I like both of you in your own ways :'( Kunarian TALK 21:02, March 16, 2017 (UTC)
 * Who said anything about liking? --Semyon 21:05, March 16, 2017 (UTC)
 * I like you and your contributions :'( and Time's as well, but mainly because they are interesting and not things I would come up with because I am reactionary scum :'( Kunarian TALK 21:07, March 16, 2017 (UTC)
 * Examples? :o —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 21:10, March 16, 2017 (UTC)
 * (edc) That's kind of you, I also like you and your contributions. Actually, I expect 'reactionary scum' is used as a badge of pride among elements of the Lovian right wing, similar to the 'deplorables.' :P --Semyon 21:12, March 16, 2017 (UTC)
 * Example: Social Liberal Party, my second favourite Lovian political party, bless their lost soul :'( Also all your edits in the First and Second chamber and your re-invigoration of the CPL.nm. Reactionary scum is a privilege to be earned not simply worn. Kunarian TALK 21:17, March 16, 2017 (UTC)
 * Blame people for not joining it and instead constantly making their own parties :P It was quite cute though :o Indeed CPL.nm is cute :3 —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 21:25, March 16, 2017 (UTC)

The fact that Clymene had a casual vacancy means TM's candidacy in Clymene should be valid in any case (Chan took up the casual vacancy). That doesn't apply for his federal candidacy, though. 77topaz (talk) 21:18, March 16, 2017 (UTC)
 * Yes. Which is why I want to let Time stand in the Federal however but unfortunately due to the situation with bingbang actually standing in the allocated time I cannot see any way to let him own the CPL.nm list wholly. Kunarian TALK 21:28, March 16, 2017 (UTC)
 * However he and Ben won't be allowed to stand at all if they think they can put a 2 or 3 after their candidacy and run separately. We're not stupid guys. Tbh if that's how you're going to treat it then we'll just enforce the time limits and neither of you can stand. Kunarian TALK 21:32, March 16, 2017 (UTC)
 * Yeah, it contravenes the lists system that you introduced. 77topaz (talk) 21:35, March 16, 2017 (UTC)

I disagree with TMs candidacy though. He had not shown any interest in Lovian politics recently. He just here to make congress inactive though :o --O u WTB 21:30, March 16, 2017 (UTC)
 * See my above comment. I think he can contribute and the new voting system will stop people trying to make things inactive. Kunarian TALK 21:32, March 16, 2017 (UTC)
 * Oos, I can use your exact words and apply them to Martijn. If you'e gonna ban Time from running due to lack of interest (which I would contest as he has been relatively active in discussing over the past while) then by the same logic and argument Martijn should as well. <font color=#2980B9><font face="century gothic">HORTON11 Bugatti_1921.png 22:43, March 16, 2017 (UTC)
 * Well Martijn's issue wasn't breaking the rules, it was inactivity. I suppose he is free to remove his candidacy himself, like what Happy did. MyOwnBadSelf (talk) 22:48, March 16, 2017 (UTC)
 * I doubt Martijn or Bart (the "Oos squad", as they're sometimes referred to) will remove their candidacies, or more importantly their votes (they basically only show up to vote for Oos in elections and aren't active outside election season). 77topaz (talk) 23:07, March 16, 2017 (UTC)
 * To be fair Bart has made some good stuff on Oceana's nature, but those edits are usually only at election season. Martijn only ever comes to run as LMP and vote Oos, and even then his last edits prior to this election were almost 2 years ago. Hardly active or interested I would think. <font color=#2980B9><font face="century gothic">HORTON11 Bugatti_1921.png 23:16, March 16, 2017 (UTC)
 * That's right. If they weren't good editors I'd call it meat-puppetry :o MyOwnBadSelf (talk) 23:27, March 16, 2017 (UTC)

I said TM was a terrible contributor and already I've been proved right. I agree with Oos. --Semyon 21:35, March 16, 2017 (UTC)

Enforce the law
I think we should enforce the rules and just stop both of them from standing now. They are being childish and did not get their candidacies in in time. Vote for bingbang, he's up your alley. Kunarian TALK 21:35, March 16, 2017 (UTC)
 * Only because I didn't realize Bingbang was in control of CPL.nm, otherwise I probably would still not be running. Would you accept a more unique name for the lists? —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 21:36, March 16, 2017 (UTC)
 * No not really unless you were running with Ben under a unique party. Tbh I'm actually more inclined to just say you can't stand because of the antics. Kunarian TALK 21:40, March 16, 2017 (UTC)
 * My first suggestion was that Bingbang should have to make a different list instead because of his behaviour, but this three-lists debacle makes me think the others may not be more mature than him either. :P 77topaz (talk) 21:48, March 16, 2017 (UTC)
 * Yeah, if you want someone who will be mature, then why not vote for me? :o MyOwnBadSelf (talk) 21:52, March 16, 2017 (UTC)

I think yr all uncute by opposing our abuse of this loophole though :'( —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 21:53, March 16, 2017 (UTC)
 * Loophole? MyOwnBadSelf (talk) 22:00, March 16, 2017 (UTC)
 * Under Kunarian's new system, candidates of the same party are supposed to be on the same list. 77topaz (talk) 22:13, March 16, 2017 (UTC)
 * I can understand that, but it was too late anyway. That's the problem. Now, if you really are a time master (:o), then travel back and put your candidacy in on time. MyOwnBadSelf (talk) 22:15, March 16, 2017 (UTC)
 * However, Kunarian initially said he'd allow TM's nomination even though it was late (see the top of the discussion). He only changed his mind after TM and Ben started circumventing the lists law. 77topaz (talk) 22:17, March 16, 2017 (UTC)
 * I suppose that was fairly fine, as long as there was no further abuse. But this has gone too far. MyOwnBadSelf (talk) 22:19, March 16, 2017 (UTC)
 * For what it's worth, I've rescinded my candidacy. Maybe you should both calm down a bit, and stop taking this so seriously. It's an in-character election, after all --BenGabriel (talk) 22:23, March 16, 2017 (UTC)
 * That's good. It's just with the whole list thing, the federal law of elections is supposed to run alongside the rules of the wiki. MyOwnBadSelf (talk) 22:26, March 16, 2017 (UTC)

I'd say, they both can run, albeit under the CPL.nm list. I myself hadn't realized the party list shit, cuz it's very negative to CCPL too (CNP and KNPO circumvented this right from the start by creating two lists; luckily Bart had realized this, so he stood for MCP). I made the decision to keep CCPL one list, cuz the candidacy time was over, even though it has negative consequences to our results. --O u WTB 09:51, March 17, 2017 (UTC)
 * If I can be clear I expected MyOwnBadSelf to run with the CNP and then go KNPO. He didn't consult me on that. If we had one list right now, we would be in a good position to be one of the top three parties. That's why splitting your list up is actually bad. If you fail to have the the largest list you don't get the bonus seats. For example: The most efficient way to run with vote swapping is in three lists, this will mean each of your lists gets 6 votes if you have three members of the vote swap. Now put this into a model election where everyone only votes for their lists. Three parties split into three lists each, while three other parties group up. The three largest parties will be the lists that stuck together and the result will be: 46 seats to vote manipulators, 54 seats to those who stick together. You harm your chances by splitting up under this system. So really I should be allowing the CPL.nm to split up, because they will just end up worse off, but it makes a mockery of the system and that's why I didn't. Kunarian TALK 10:07, March 17, 2017 (UTC)
 * Doesn't make sense. You would get twice as many votes for your lists, and then no minor/support votes for lists other than your own. That should easily outweigh the loss of the bonus. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 13:21, March 17, 2017 (UTC)
 * Kunarian said that in his model, everyone only votes for their own lists, i.e. the parties who did not split up only voted with their major votes and did not use their minor or support votes. 77topaz (talk) 20:34, March 17, 2017 (UTC)
 * Still doesn't make sense. You potentially lose up to 15 seats (unlikely since you only go from 6 to 5 votes for the separate lists with people major voting themselves) from not getting the bonus but get 67%+ increased votes = many more seats for separate lists. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 21:07, March 17, 2017 (UTC)
 * Bonus seats make the difference. Kunarian TALK 21:45, March 17, 2017 (UTC)
 * Clearly does not, and even my thoughts above require that you lose the bonus seats, when it is very possible that you keep all or some of them. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 01:22, March 18, 2017 (UTC)
 * Time, using your method you can win 67% of the vote with your gaming of the system and the lists that stuck together will received 53/54% of the final seats. It's a simple calculation really. Kunarian TALK 09:40, March 18, 2017 (UTC)
 * Again, makes no sense. For a single party, even supposing splitting up gets them to go from 15 bonus seats to 0 bonus seats (very unlikely), instead of having one list with 9 votes they have three lists with 6 votes, so twice as many seats, they would need to be at 15 non bonus seats with the single list and 30 non bonus seats with the three lists to make up the difference. That is worst case scenario (e.g, assumes CPL.nm would get first place from fourth or lower for split lists with only 50% increased total votes on the single list) and seems pretty good to me. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 15:37, March 18, 2017 (UTC)
 * Then feel free to run under three unique parties next time. My point will still stand and you will still end up in the minority. Kunarian TALK 15:43, March 18, 2017 (UTC)

Wait, wait, wait. Is there something wrong with what I've done? MyOwnBadSelf (talk) 22:57, March 17, 2017 (UTC)
 * No, don't worry :) Kunarian TALK 09:38, March 18, 2017 (UTC)

Japanese wikination
Does one exist? If not, I have been thinking about making one. MyOwnBadSelf (talk) 04:23, March 20, 2017 (UTC)

I don't think there is one. For that matter, I don't think we've ever had any Japanese-speaking users. Though, there does exist a Chinese one, made by the now inactive Jeffwang16. 77topaz (talk) 06:11, March 20, 2017 (UTC)


 * Right then, I will have to make one. I sort of speak Japanese at a low to medium level. MyOwnBadSelf (talk) 06:50, March 20, 2017 (UTC)

All-important poll
Proposal in this case: Block TheworldofBingbang32 per community consensus :o

Pro
 * 1) MyOwnBadSelf (talk) 09:04, March 26, 2017 (UTC)
 * 2) 77topaz (talk) 10:02, March 26, 2017 (UTC)
 * 3) Kunarian TALK 10:28, March 26, 2017 (UTC)
 * 4) Niels20020 (talk) 12:08, March 26, 2017 (UTC)

Contra
 * 1) Needs one final, very clear warning. If he transgresses after that, he should receive a week's block (or two, maybe) without warning. --Semyon 18:50, March 27, 2017 (UTC)

Discussion

I think it might be necessary. The megalomania, hijacking and edit-warring has gone too far. MyOwnBadSelf (talk) 09:04, March 26, 2017 (UTC)

With his recent edit war, and general unresponsiveness as noted previously, I have to say yes. 77topaz (talk) 10:02, March 26, 2017 (UTC)


 * I suppose what's even worse than all his over-the-top articles and edit warring, is that he doesn't even make an attempt to change his ways, despite repeatedly being warned. I think a block is in order, because otherwise we could still have problems. MyOwnBadSelf (talk) 10:09, March 26, 2017 (UTC)

I suggest we also retcon his involvement in the recent election as well. Kunarian TALK 10:28, March 26, 2017 (UTC)


 * So Time is the only candidate? MyOwnBadSelf (talk) 10:33, March 26, 2017 (UTC)
 * Time withdrew his candidacy. 77topaz (talk) 10:40, March 26, 2017 (UTC)
 * So, no CPL.nm candidacy? Right... I suppose that means right emerges even more solid. MyOwnBadSelf (talk) 10:42, March 26, 2017 (UTC) Also, I'm on chat now. :o


 * I won't agree to retconning his involvement on the election (unless something is figured out) but yeah I back his banning, though not permamently or for a very long time. <font color=#2980B9><font face="century gothic">HORTON11 Bugatti_1921.png 12:05, March 26, 2017 (UTC)

Yeah. I retconned CPL.nm into having boycotted the election and Bingbang's group having been disavowed by the main party. Not opposed to retconning his group. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 17:48, March 26, 2017 (UTC)
 * TM should be in congress though :o --O u WTB 20:06, March 26, 2017 (UTC)
 * Maybe next time, particularly if Semyon runs since he is absolutely essential to healthy function of this wiki. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 20:23, March 26, 2017 (UTC)
 * @Horton: Perhaps, but then he could come back and still make these pages. @TM: Didn't you admit once that you have a crush on Semyon? Is this like that? :o MyOwnBadSelf (talk) 22:00, March 26, 2017 (UTC)
 * I think it would be best to just block him temporarily at first, and then if after his block ends he continues his previous behaviour, then we could block him for a longer time. 77topaz (talk) 23:08, March 26, 2017 (UTC)

Yes, perhaps. 2 weeks? MyOwnBadSelf (talk) 23:10, March 26, 2017 (UTC)
 * That seems like an appropriate amount of time. 77topaz (talk) 02:44, March 27, 2017 (UTC)

Re Semyon's comment in 'Contra': this has happened repeatedly. We warned him a number of times. Nothing happened. MyOwnBadSelf (talk) 22:19, March 27, 2017 (UTC)

Meetup
We're currently (re)discussing possibilities for a real-life meetup this summer in the wikination FB group. The purpose of this post is to make those not in the group (specifically Topaz, MOBS, Horton, Happy, and Bart, who have all been active relatively recently) aware that such a discussion is taking place. If any of you are interested in taking part, please let me know. :) Equally, if any of you would like to be added to the FB group, please let me know. --Semyon 11:47, April 13, 2017 (UTC)


 * You have a link? <font color=#2980B9><font face="century gothic">HORTON11 Bugatti_1921.png 16:59, April 13, 2017 (UTC)
 * It's a private group. It can't be seen/accessed unless you're a member. --O u WTB 17:29, April 13, 2017 (UTC)
 * Sorry for the inconvenience, but I prefer to keep it private. An invitation is required from a group member to join. If you send Oos or me or TM or Kun or another member a link to your FB page, you can be added. (I will lurk on chat for while in case you want to do that.) --Semyon 18:35, April 13, 2017 (UTC)
 * In any case, I won't be getting involved. I live on the other side of the world from most users here. MyOwnBadSelf (talk) 22:45, April 13, 2017 (UTC)
 * Understood. --Semyon 10:16, April 14, 2017 (UTC)
 * Obviously, the boring people have not yet joint the facebook group though :o --O u WTB 10:50, April 14, 2017 (UTC)

Added Horton to the group, happy to add any other applicants following a stringent vetting procedure. :o. --Semyon 19:07, April 14, 2017 (UTC)

Why have so many people seen the post but not put their available dates in? :'( —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 01:18, April 15, 2017 (UTC)
 * They don't like you cuz u bitchy :o --O u WTB 10:02, April 15, 2017 (UTC)

New government?
Now elections are done, what was the new plan for the government? MyOwnBadSelf (talk) 09:26, April 15, 2017 (UTC)
 * Become inactive? :o --O u WTB 10:04, April 15, 2017 (UTC)
 * @Oos: I believe you suggested a CCPL-GP-MCP coalition? 77topaz (talk) 10:06, April 15, 2017 (UTC)
 * You wanna save the earth though? :o --O u WTB 11:18, April 15, 2017 (UTC)
 * MCP is cute and moderate and Bart is being cute with his attempts to bring activity so I'm pro :o —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 13:23, April 15, 2017 (UTC)
 * Head for Congress? --Semyon 13:45, April 15, 2017 (UTC)
 * :o --O u WTB 14:34, April 15, 2017 (UTC)
 * Also, does my MOTC list under 'KNPO' rather than 'CNP' impact on CNP seats? Does that mean there's no coalition, and I've robbed the CNP of seats? :( MyOwnBadSelf (talk) 22:58, April 15, 2017 (UTC)
 * What do you mean about "no coalition"? If you'd ran under the same list the total amount of seats CNP+KNPO received would probably have been a bit less as you wouldn't have been able to vote for both yourself and Kunarian. Also, I think Kunarian/TM wanted you to give some seats to SNP and PNT. 77topaz (talk) 02:26, April 16, 2017 (UTC)
 * I think that if he ran under CNP, they'd probably get MCP's bonus seats. So, yes, he robt them. --O u WTB 10:37, April 16, 2017 (UTC)

Bingbang
I propose Bingbang is banned for the next month from making new articles. That would be a more moderate alternative to a block and hopefully some of his/her energies would be redirected into improving those he's already created. Thoughts? --Semyon 18:06, April 20, 2017 (UTC)

I agree, since he clearly hasn't learnt from his previous block. 77topaz (talk) 21:43, April 20, 2017 (UTC)

I agree and would like several of his past articles to be deleted. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 22:23, April 20, 2017 (UTC)

Oos already moved many of Bingbang's article to his userspace. 77topaz (talk) 01:37, April 21, 2017 (UTC)
 * I know. How cute I am :o --O u WTB 11:10, April 21, 2017 (UTC)

@Semyon: I don't think it's technically possible to block a user from just creating new articles. --O u WTB 11:11, April 21, 2017 (UTC)

I think you're right. But we can tell him not to, and delete them if he doesn't pay attention. --Semyon 12:09, April 21, 2017 (UTC)

Maybe there's a technical way of doing it via user rights management? I think I recall Wikipedia having something like that. 77topaz (talk) 12:42, April 21, 2017 (UTC)
 * @tell him: Your last bit confirms that won't work as he doesn't seem to be parrticularily interested in the shit we typed to him :o
 * @user rights: No, that don't exist on wikia :'( --O u WTB 13:21, April 21, 2017 (UTC)
 * @tell him: so you just delete the pages. No big deal. Otherwise, we can just give him a normal block.
 * @user rights: klihef, 'cause wikia sucks. --Semyon 15:10, April 21, 2017 (UTC)

Just block him for ignoring talk page queries. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 17:03, April 21, 2017 (UTC)

New government, once again
It's typical. Sometimes it seems like elections are a way to encourage inactivity after they end :P

But seriously, who takes up the leadership roles? What about ministries? I'll assume that in state elections, Oos remained dictator/governor of Oceana. MyOwnBadSelf (talk) 09:54, April 25, 2017 (UTC)
 * No idea though :o --O u WTB 10:38, April 25, 2017 (UTC)
 * Perhaps military rule? I'm sure Burenia would love that :p horton11 19:43, April 25, 2017 (UTC)
 * What do you guys think of a Burenia-style competition between speakers of Bredish and Oceana? :P --QytokantFRÅGOR??? 20:45, April 25, 2017 (UTC)
 * Burenia has only those similarly-related dialects, so they can afford the fighting. Bredish and Oceana are minorities, so it should be them banding together. horton11 20:57, April 25, 2017 (UTC)

Let's have a (peaceful) communist revolution. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 14:18, April 25, 2017 (UTC)
 * Are we just going to count votes and figure out who wins the elections? MyOwnBadSelf (talk) 22:55, April 25, 2017 (UTC)
 * We did count the votes, etc. There just hasn't been a coalition formed yet. A CCPL-GP-MCP coalition was proposed, but not yet agreed on. 77topaz (talk) 23:16, April 25, 2017 (UTC)
 * And Oceana's governor, is, once again, a drunkard, rather than somebody who wants to develop Oceana. MyOwnBadSelf (talk) 01:44, April 26, 2017 (UTC)
 * I developt Oshenna though. I'd say Kings is the least developt state :o --O u WTB 11:31, April 26, 2017 (UTC)
 * Anyway, Oos, has Bart commented on the proposed coalition? He needs to be active for that proposal to work. 77topaz (talk) 21:51, April 26, 2017 (UTC)

@Kings: But developing it too much would destroy its natural beauty. @Bart: I think he's faded away again because elections are over. :o MyOwnBadSelf (talk) 01:23, April 27, 2017 (UTC)
 * @Kings: But it's natural beauty hasn't even been developt though :o
 * @Bart: Sad, but true. I'll send him a text massage :o --O u WTB 09:55, April 28, 2017 (UTC)
 * Actually, Oshenna's natural beauty has been developt by Bart, hasn't it? 77topaz (talk) 20:51, April 28, 2017 (UTC)

Sorry guys. I am busy at the moment, but I will be back. Even when there aren't elections. ;) Bart K (talk) 15:33, April 28, 2017 (UTC)
 * Okay. But what are your thoughts on that proposed coalition? 77topaz (talk) 20:51, April 28, 2017 (UTC)

Wikistad
Now I am reading talk pages and forum pages from May 2007. I just can't get it that the wikia is already ten years old (since 27 March). Wabba The I (talk) 12:00, May 6, 2017 (UTC)


 * Yeah, it's 6 years for Brunant also, yesterday was the 6,25th anniversary. It might be 21 August for Lovia (at least thats the age of the main page). Pretty impressive considering most wikis don't make it past a week of activity. horton11 18:09, May 6, 2017 (UTC)

Link? I was certain it was August 20, 2007 or so. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 17:43, May 6, 2017 (UTC)

Oh, Libertas. Nevermind. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 17:43, May 6, 2017 (UTC)


 * Horton11's comment made me think of my own Japanese Wikination, which didn't even make it to a full day :P In any case, it's good that the community has kept together. MyOwnBadSelf (talk) 01:51, May 7, 2017 (UTC)
 * The community hasn't kept together though :o No-one of the original community still left; even 'cle Oos wasn't there at the beginning :o --O u WTB 10:46, May 9, 2017 (UTC)

Dates and age are just one thing. Hopefully, we can get the most important aspect of our wiki collection back the way it was: active. Bart K (talk) 17:01, May 9, 2017 (UTC)


 * @Oos: Actually, that's true. But wiki usage in general has declined. I blame the rise of social media.
 * @Bart K: Unlikely, since we just had elections. :P MyOwnBadSelf (talk) 23:06, May 9, 2017 (UTC)
 * I blame to rise of takavíhki users like u though :'( --O u WTB 08:52, May 10, 2017 (UTC)
 * Why am I takaviki? Because I use good spelling and want to improve the wiki? MyOwnBadSelf (talk) 01:25, May 11, 2017 (UTC)

Lovian police
Do you think, the Lovian police can assist in the Phalumh Muslim Crisis?? Traspes - Dianna Bartol 02:37, June 1, 2017 (UTC)
 * It depends on whether the crisis is big enough to warrant international aid. MyOwnBadSelf  ( talk  &middot;  stalk ) 03:43, June 1, 2017 (UTC)
 * Well, the crisis is already warranting foreign aid from SEDEF, so that's not really the issue here. I think the issue here is more whether it is appropriate to send Lovian police to an overseas military conflict, which I personally don't think is the case. 77topaz (talk) 09:46, June 1, 2017 (UTC)
 * I agree with Topaz :o --O u WTB 11:26, June 1, 2017 (UTC)
 * Well, we don't have an army, so police is the best we can do. MyOwnBadSelf  ( talk  &middot;  stalk ) 23:04, June 1, 2017 (UTC)
 * There is 25 police of Juliana in Phalumh Phoueck to assist in polcie training. They didn't fight but still assisting the governmental authorities. Traspes - Dianna Bartol LOGO POSITIVE BLOCK.png 01:47, June 2, 2017 (UTC)
 * And Juliana doesn't have an army? MyOwnBadSelf  ( talk  &middot;  stalk ) 02:30, June 2, 2017 (UTC)
 * @MOBS: Police aren't the same as soldiers. Every policeman sent overseas is a policeman who can't do his job of protecting people in Lovia. 77topaz (talk) 09:45, June 2, 2017 (UTC)
 * In that case, it is best left to other nations. MyOwnBadSelf  ( talk  &middot;  stalk ) 13:31, June 2, 2017 (UTC)
 * I would love to see Lovia assist with MNPP (other IWO nations are welcome to assist without the need to become SEDEF members). That said, our history of political instability/propensity to conflict arising including invasion by certain states makes me agree with Topaz; soldiers sent there mean less soldiers for Lovia itself, unless we were willing to specifically train a select few to be sent to Phaluhm Phoueck.
 * @MOBS - Juliana abolished its army I think.
 * @Can't do his job of protecting people in Lovia - My thoughts at one point were to perhaps have a permanent SEDEF unit posted to Lovia in order to preclude possible invasions or conflicts, and to deter belligerent groups/states from doing so. In practise SEDEF is not a part of IWO so it would not be a smooth process nor an easy one, especially if Lovia is not joining. horton11 18:30, June 2, 2017 (UTC)
 * I mean, voting CNP means you get a National Guard, but what's the point of that now? MyOwnBadSelf  ( talk  &middot;  stalk ) 22:42, June 2, 2017 (UTC)

On user conduct
Hello, We haven't been very active lately, but I feel like I need to share this.

We need more policies relating to user conduct, and a better block system. This is directed at two users in particular: Is this really the way two wiki users should behave? I feel like, not only do we need a new admin (I feel like Topaz or Horton would be good for this), but we also need clearer policies, and ways to ensure people follow them.
 * TimeMaster, who is an experienced user. He has been here since 2011 and has almost 10,000 edits. Yet he still feels the need for intimidating behaviour. He pushes his personal beliefs (Roman numerals, use of colons on talk pages, the entirety of Forum:Count etc.) onto other users, constantly initiates edit wars, argues that other experienced users (such as 77topaz and myself) should be blocked despite always acting in good faith, and yet is never blocked - or even warned - because the head-admin appears to be physically attracted to him. (:o)
 * Ooswesthoesbes, who is the aforementioned head-admin, he really should know better than to call users like myself 'bitchy' and 'mean', not to mention he constantly neglects his adminly duties because he's always out drinking.

I sign off, MyOwnBadSelf  ( talk  &middot;  stalk ) 02:01, July 7, 2017 (UTC)
 * I disagree (:o). I have always been here to look out for the wiki (anti-vandalism). And yes, TM is f*cking physically attracted, but he is a mean bitch :o
 * As for a new admin, Topaz seems good, but he has to join the fb-group first. Horton's treatment of several wikis in the past does not give me a good feeling.
 * @Policies: you mean you need bureaucracy, which I oppose :o --O u WTB 12:57, July 7, 2017 (UTC)
 * @Facebook group: Do you have a link for that group? 77topaz (talk) 01:51, July 9, 2017 (UTC)
 * No. As was mentioned before, it's a private group. --Semyon 14:38, September 3, 2017 (UTC)
 * How would I be able to join it, then? :o 77topaz (talk) 22:33, September 3, 2017 (UTC)
 * I got the impression you didn't want to, and despite what OWTB said there is no need to. If you do, sure, but you need to be added by a current group member, e.g. me, TM, OWTB, or Horton. I'm lurking on the chat atm, if you want an invite. --Semyon 19:16, September 4, 2017 (UTC)

I think we need more policies relating to spam. That's why I've suggested bans of MOBS, topaz, and Wabba, due to their endless spam on Forum:Count which still hasn't been deleted, suggested Oos actually favors you three. Also, I should note you have been asking for my block longer than I've been asking for yours. As for other intimidating behavior, it's because I'm unable to control my anger towards topaz having skipped a grade, spam being allowed, album pages being spammed, etc. Oos is doing fine. :o I oppose topaz as an admin, he's not nearly neutral enough like Oos is. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 13:23, July 7, 2017 (UTC)

I dislike blocking users on this wiki cuz I tend to think they cute :3 --O u WTB 13:53, July 7, 2017 (UTC)

Let's analyse what you've said. Oos:
 * I disagree: Then why didn't you block Bingbang even after getting multiple requests to do so?
 * Mean bitch: This is exactly what I'm talking about: personal attacks.
 * Facebook group: Why does that even mean anything?
 * Horton: As far as I'm concerned, his 'treatment' of wikis is good, like with Brunant.
 * Bureaucracy: I didn't say that.

And TM:
 * Endless spam: No, this has gotten activity back up.
 * Favors three users: Then why did Oos call me 'mean' and 'takaviki'?
 * Grade skipping, album pages and such: Why are you so opposed to this? It seems like you just want a reason to complain about something.
 * Neutral: I quote Horton, Oos is 'about as impartial as Fox News'.

Also, Oos, users are not 'cute' if they complain and harass other users. That's basically vandalism. And if you are anti-vandalism, then you would do something about it. MyOwnBadSelf ( talk  &middot;  stalk ) 03:26, July 8, 2017 (UTC)
 * You don't seem to understand that this is the way this wiki has always been. Since the complaining users got a majority, the wiki has died. --O u WTB 08:21, July 8, 2017 (UTC)
 * Well, you haven't always acted like this, judging by your old talk pages. As for users that complain, I think TimeMaster is the biggest of them all. MyOwnBadSelf  ( talk  &middot;  stalk ) 07:38, July 9, 2017 (UTC)
 * @MOBS: Actually, Oos did block Bingbang, though it was only for a duration of one week. 77topaz (talk) 01:51, July 9, 2017 (UTC)
 * That's true, but it took a long time. MyOwnBadSelf  ( talk  &middot;  stalk ) 07:38, July 9, 2017 (UTC)

On TM's comments: I see much negativity, lots of it highly unreasonable, and we are a wiki where users have and should positively impact it. While a counting forum may seem silly, it adds another dimension to activity which is fun and light-hearted, and in no way detracts from the creativity of the wiki. Mindlessly disrupting the wiki in a negative manner does not help at all. I suggest we see past this and end with the complaining and hatred.
 * And on a side note I second the idea of Topaz for adminship on this wiki and concur with Oos' official warning (though more could have been done earlier I'm sure, he has taken the first step and I commend him). Topaz has shown to be a very capable user, works well with the majority of users, and has made many valuable contribution with his articles and his organizing of things on the wiki. Plus he has displayed a professional demeanor as admin on other wikis, which have no doubt given him more experience. horton11 12:39, July 8, 2017 (UTC)
 * Thank you! :) I would also support you (Horton) for adminship, considering your good work with that position in Brunant. I think it would be good for this wiki to have at least two active admins at all times. 77topaz (talk) 01:51, July 9, 2017 (UTC)
 * There is likely to be some opposition to me as an admin, as much as I would like to think I would be capable enough as one. That said, other than TimeMaster's irrational dislike of you and your academic achievements, you are held in high esteem across the board and would make a very capable admin. horton11 06:25, July 9, 2017 (UTC)
 * I have little to add, except that I definitely support Tåpas as a new admin. --QytokantFRÅGOR??? 09:22, July 9, 2017 (UTC)
 * I support Topaz and Horton. MyOwnBadSelf  ( talk  &middot;  stalk ) 03:01, August 21, 2017 (UTC)

As it looks there is a clear consensus on adding Tåpas as admin. So, if he agrees, I'll grant him admin rights. --O u WTB 11:51, August 22, 2017 (UTC)
 * Strong oppose. Only the clique of Forum:Count people have agreed, and we don't need a new admin, especially if Bingbang is blocked. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 11:58, August 22, 2017 (UTC)

Yes, I agree with becoming an admin. 77topaz (talk) 21:45, August 22, 2017 (UTC)
 * Then please organize a vote. --O u WTB 10:40, August 23, 2017 (UTC)
 * Is there a specific place I would need to do that, or is this page acceptable? 77topaz (talk) 12:13, August 23, 2017 (UTC)
 * This page be best. --O u WTB 14:27, August 23, 2017 (UTC)
 * OK. 77topaz (talk) 23:19, August 23, 2017 (UTC)

Vote on 77topaz becoming an admin

 * 77topaz (talk) 23:19, August 23, 2017 (UTC)
 * —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 00:31, August 24, 2017 (UTC) (no need for admin, not that active except on Forum:Count which is an insult to the memory of the activity of the main namespace, disrupts balance of power between users who edit war, including himself, albeit at a lesser rate than me (see him removing my quality additions to Forum:Count a few months ago))
 * --O u WTB 08:25, August 24, 2017 (UTC) I don't really see the necessity, but have no valid reason to oppose.
 * I understand Oos' point, but a second admin just in case would be good in case the one is away. On Topaz, he has proven himself to be an excellent user, fair in deaing with conflict, is on the ball with trying to rectify vandalism and unconstructive edits/behavior to the site and has in other wikis proven himself a capable administrator. horton11 20:34, August 24, 2017 (UTC)
 * MyOwnBadSelf ( talk  &middot;  stalk ) 23:04, August 24, 2017 (UTC)

Dear people: this vote is going to end on September 1. So if anyone wants to object, comment or support, please do so before that date. --O u WTB 12:19, August 29, 2017 (UTC)

Please don't promote topaz. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 15:37, August 29, 2017 (UTC)
 * We currently got 75% pro, which means an absolute majority. --O u WTB 17:26, August 29, 2017 (UTC)
 * How about you change to contra then. Or you can look at his contributions and not be impressed with them, or take into account the cliquey nature of his supporters and the silence of other users. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 18:37, August 29, 2017 (UTC)
 * By 'silence of other users' you mean that Washington, Hannis, Latin and others are suddenly going to come back from the dead with pitchforks, hunting down the 'counters'? MyOwnBadSelf  ( talk  &middot;  stalk ) 05:26, August 30, 2017 (UTC)

So, this vote has closed now, right? 77topaz (talk) 22:31, September 3, 2017 (UTC)
 * Yes :o --O u WTB 13:40, September 6, 2017 (UTC)

Granted. --O u WTB 13:40, September 6, 2017 (UTC)
 * Thank you! :) 77topaz (talk) 20:10, September 6, 2017 (UTC)
 * Congratulations and good luck. :) --Semyon 08:21, September 7, 2017 (UTC)
 * @Tåpas: I wud've expected something cute from you too though :3 --O u WTB 13:43, September 8, 2017 (UTC)

This sadifies me. Forum:Count and publicly must be destroyed. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 16:59, September 8, 2017 (UTC)


 * You know that's not gonna happen so you might as well live with that fact. Move on to something constructive instead. horton11 17:32, September 8, 2017 (UTC)

10 years
Happy 10 year anniversary to this site! —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 01:17, August 21, 2017 (UTC)
 * Well I hope for 10 years more, potentially without a Limburgish dictator. MyOwnBadSelf  ( talk  &middot;  stalk ) 03:00, August 21, 2017 (UTC)

Post your predictions for 2027 below. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 15:24, August 21, 2017 (UTC)


 * (a) The CNP have a congressional majority.
 * (b) Lovia's population has reached 1 million by this stage, with Noble City having at least 200,000.
 * (c) Count has reached 50,000.
 * (d) There will be no more remaining land for wikinations in the IWO Universe.
 * (e) Oos will have died from alcohol poisoning.

MyOwnBadSelf ( talk  &middot;  stalk ) 04:19, August 22, 2017 (UTC)
 * :'( --O u WTB 11:48, August 22, 2017 (UTC)

I predict minimal activity and no more elections. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 11:58, August 22, 2017 (UTC)
 * Of course you do. MyOwnBadSelf  ( talk  &middot;  stalk ) 22:53, August 22, 2017 (UTC)
 * You should be blocked for harassment. :o —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 23:41, August 22, 2017 (UTC)
 * Why can't anyone take a joke? MyOwnBadSelf  ( talk  &middot;  stalk ) 04:34, August 23, 2017 (UTC)
 * Well, I think your humour is pretty bad actually (:o). Especially cuz you are pretty harsh against the "old order" :o Apart from that, your takavíhkiness kinda makes you fit in with the rest of us :P --O u WTB 10:46, August 23, 2017 (UTC)
 * What do you mean by 'old order'? As in, everyone on the wiki in 2007? Well, that's not everyone. Like, I've never said anything bad about Lars Washington, have I? MyOwnBadSelf  ( talk  &middot;  stalk ) 23:03, August 24, 2017 (UTC)
 * Many of them were probably the same person. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 23:08, August 24, 2017 (UTC)
 * @TM: some, but not most; @MOBS: no, I mean the users of that time that still active today :o --O u WTB 08:42, August 25, 2017 (UTC)
 * @TM: Yeah, I think Aesopos and Bucu were the same person. @Oos: That's just you :P MyOwnBadSelf  ( talk  &middot;  stalk ) 23:03, August 27, 2017 (UTC)
 * @TM: No, I had MSN contact with Bucu back then and I was really irritated by him :P @Oos: You understand why you hurting me now? :'( --O u WTB 12:13, August 29, 2017 (UTC)
 * @TM: Most of the random Dutch users with only 5-edits here but hundreds on Libertas (Greenday2, Jillids etc.) were probably the same person. @Oos: That's no excuse for such behaviour. MyOwnBadSelf  ( talk  &middot;  stalk ) 23:04, August 29, 2017 (UTC)
 * Because there were several users on Libertas at the time who did create sockpuppets (Bucu, Magnus and Pierlot, if I recall correctly), I suspect the staff may have IP-checked many of the users, though I don't know for sure. I also think several of the Dutch users knew each other in real life, like Oos and Bart. 77topaz (talk) 23:10, August 29, 2017 (UTC)
 * @MOBS:Again wrong. They actually had facebook etc online, so of many I know their real names xD --O u WTB 08:38, August 30, 2017 (UTC)
 * OK, it was a conspiracy then. MyOwnBadSelf  ( talk  &middot;  stalk ) 01:52, August 31, 2017 (UTC)
 * To what end? :o 77topaz (talk) 02:45, August 31, 2017 (UTC)
 * As for Oos, he's the only one left. But they all acted the same way. MyOwnBadSelf  ( talk  &middot;  stalk ) 22:58, August 31, 2017 (UTC)
 * You miss a lot of Special:Chat-discussions though :P --O u WTB 11:52, September 1, 2017 (UTC)
 * What do you mean by that? MyOwnBadSelf  ( talk  &middot;  stalk ) 21:08, September 1, 2017 (UTC)

The tastelessness of your point (e) crosses a certain line, in my view. You ought to consider that other users are not just words on a screen, but real people with real feelings, and refrain from being so crass. --Semyon 14:42, September 3, 2017 (UTC)
 * Crass? If Oos drinks as much as he has been, then yes, he will die from alcohol poisoning. I'd say everything TM said is worse. MyOwnBadSelf  ( talk  &middot;  stalk ) 23:09, September 3, 2017 (UTC)
 * To be honest, I think Oos may occasionally be exaggerating his alcoholism for comedic effect. :o 77topaz (talk) 23:43, September 3, 2017 (UTC)
 * All of which is debatable, and beside the point, but it doesn't matter, I don't have anything more to say. --Semyon 19:33, September 4, 2017 (UTC)

Return of Bingbang
Looks like he wants to revive Devilface, and revive the Nongye ice-skating rink. What should be done? MyOwnBadSelf ( talk  &middot;  stalk ) 04:20, August 22, 2017 (UTC)
 * Block'n'delete. --O u WTB 11:48, August 22, 2017 (UTC)

Another new wiki
I was thinking of new ideas for reviving the wiki community and I remembered that one thing most people share is an interest in languages. Therefore, I have created a new wikination, Leifsland, the main aim of which is to help users hone their language skills. The nation is made up of numerous rather autonomous provinces, each speaking a separate language. So far we have German, Icelandic and Russian provinces, but more can be added. If you're interested, the link's here:. --Semyon 17:44, August 29, 2017 (UTC)

That's an interesting concept; I see that the pages of the different provinces are all written in their own languages. Though, it does make me wonder how you'd utilise wiki-wide things like categories and templates? 77topaz (talk) 20:27, August 29, 2017 (UTC)

I think we are basically leaving those to develop organically, for now. It's already a little chaotic; for example, we have three separate pages about the capital city so far. --Semyon 23:17, August 29, 2017 (UTC)

If a category belongs to a single district, it is named in the language spoken there. Cross-wiki cats are in English. --O u WTB 08:37, August 30, 2017 (UTC)

On user conduct 2: The Revenge
You know how I made that forum post that was essentially a rant about two active, established users on the wiki, and their behaviour: Well, I feel like I forgot to mention a major problem with one of them. This would be Oos.

This isn't going to be about launching an inquiry into his alcoholism, or anything like that. This is about the elections, and I feel like we do actually need to make an inquiry into this sort of behaviour.

I'm talking about the so-called 'Oos squad', consisting of User:Bart K and User:MartijnM. These two people apparently know Oos in real life, and they often appear during election times, as we've seen from earlier this year. It seemed as if both of them showed up briefly at this time, to vote for Oos, and then they disappeared again. I feel like this is causing the election to become unfairly skewed. If this is acceptable behaviour, should I bring some people that I know in real life, and have them all vote KNPO?

If Bart and Martijn were more active, this would not be an issue. Both of them are citizens of Lovia under the new system, so it is completely acceptable for them to vote. However, if this is their only action (Bart did make some stuff on nature, but that was only for a little while), then it looks like soliciting votes for yourself, and borders on meatpuppetry.

And let's not even start with the whole Heretow thing... MyOwnBadSelf ( talk  &middot;  stalk ) 03:29, September 21, 2017 (UTC)
 * :o Yeah, Martijn often promises to become active but then doesn't, so in the future I guess we should ignore his votes. Bart, however, has been a very constructive user, but as the wiki's main namespace becomes inactive, so does he. --O u WTB 08:57, September 21, 2017 (UTC)
 * To put things in perspective: you only have 200 edits more than Bart (most of which spent on nonsensical discussions and count forums :o), while he has been around for way longer than you. I'd say that gives him enough credit for his votes to count. Also, as he has been a useful politician in the local politics. --O u WTB 10:04, September 21, 2017 (UTC)
 * Absolutely. Enough with these snide comments on OWTB; do some work to actually improve the wiki. --Semyon 21:20, September 22, 2017 (UTC)

@Nonsensical discussions and count forums: Strongly agree. And annoying low quality album pages. I agree that Bart's votes are fine (since he's cute) but that Martijn should stop voting. That will reduce the skew by half which should be ok because 'cle Oos still needs to get the largest number of seats every election :o —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 12:36, September 21, 2017 (UTC)
 * :3 --O u WTB 15:05, September 21, 2017 (UTC)

I agree that Bart does make some useful edits (if mostly around election time), but that can't be said about Martijn; allowing Bart but not Martijn to vote seems like a reasonable solution to me. 77topaz (talk) 20:16, September 21, 2017 (UTC)
 * I agree with 77topaz. Also, it feels as if Oos is soliciting votes from those two in real life. Why shouldn't Bart be allowed to vote by himself? (I suppose that might have been the case for Bart and not for Martijn, given that he gave his major vote to his own MCP). MyOwnBadSelf  ( talk  &middot;  stalk ) 22:47, September 21, 2017 (UTC)
 * That's not something that can be proven though (unlike, for example, the Villanova exchange of votes controversy thing in 2010), so I don't think it is really useful to discuss that. 77topaz (talk) 05:51, September 22, 2017 (UTC)
 * Of course I've asked them to vote, but Bart probably just gave his major to me, cuz he knows he is less involved. I never akst him de vote his major for me though :o --O u WTB 09:42, September 22, 2017 (UTC)
 * Bart f*cking cute though :o —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 15:03, September 22, 2017 (UTC)
 * :o --O u WTB 08:45, September 23, 2017 (UTC)

To be honest, it sometimes feels like the wiki is already finished. Also, you can't really conpare this to the Villanova case, since that was purely in-universe. MyOwnBadSelf ( talk  &middot;  stalk ) 09:18, September 29, 2017 (UTC)
 * Was it? If I recall correctly, the Villanova case involved OOC chat logs. :o 77topaz (talk) 11:42, September 29, 2017 (UTC)

Trying to compile some information
Do you guys know of any more examples of wars between or involving wikinations? For those between nations, I can only think of:


 * Burenian invasion of Lovia (2014): Multinational Task Force (Traspes, Strasland, Brunant, Prasia, Pintona), Lovian official and irregular units v. Burenia, Chvarqvia and Tagog
 * Franco-Brunanter War (1756-60): Brunant (and Hesse Kassel) v. France (and Libertas)

And involving more than one wikination:


 * Phaluhm Muslim Crisis (2015-present): Multinational Force Phaluhm Phoueck (Traspes, Strasland, Brunant, Libertas, Pintona, Juliana) and Phaluhm Phoueck v. armed Islamic insurgents

I'm sure there's at least one historical conflict I saw somewhere, but not sure where. horton11 19:53, September 25, 2017 (UTC)

There's various civil wars, but those don't usually have involvement from other wikinations. 77topaz (talk) 20:10, September 25, 2017 (UTC)
 * I know that it is controversial, but the Burenia war makes no sense Pierlot McCrooke 20:52, September 25, 2017 (UTC)

I remember the Oceana crisis which caused Adlibita and Mäöres to declare war on Lovia, as well as the Nýttron-Newport independence which caused war between Adlibita and Mäöres on one side and Libertas on the other :o --O u WTB 08:30, September 26, 2017 (UTC)

Yes, the Free Republic of Hurbanova. I think Wabba retconned the Nýttron-Newport independence crisis, though, as well as the Libertan civil wars. :o 77topaz (talk) 09:16, September 26, 2017 (UTC)


 * Were soldiers ever deployed in either of those? Or was it more of a paper declaration. horton11 20:24, September 26, 2017 (UTC)

Someone should retcon all of Wabba's retcons :o —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 11:32, September 26, 2017 (UTC)
 * Wabba retconned things because he thought they were unrealistic. I would've thought that would appeal to you. :o 77topaz (talk) 19:18, September 26, 2017 (UTC)
 * That's true. He should have made a template to signify non-canonicity and put in on the pages instead of deleting them though. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 19:44, September 26, 2017 (UTC)

I am talking about Libertas as it was, not the way Wabba f*ckt up everything though :o --O u WTB 14:26, September 26, 2017 (UTC)
 * Wabba made it more realistich though Pierlot McCrooke 15:23, September 26, 2017 (UTC)

There's the American occupation of Burenia, and, although it's probably barely mentioned on the wiki, the Swedes are supposed to have fought quite a few wars against the Celts in Inselöarna :o --QytokantFRÅGOR??? 20:07, September 26, 2017 (UTC)

And there's the Nimdan invasion of Sliras, if wars in extraterrestrial wikinations count :P --QytokantFRÅGOR??? 20:08, September 26, 2017 (UTC)
 * This is an IWO list, so no they don't. MyOwnBadSelf  ( talk  &middot;  stalk ) 09:19, September 29, 2017 (UTC)

And Germany probably held 50% of the wikinations in WW2 for some reason :o --O u WTB 07:59, September 27, 2017 (UTC)
 * They occupied Brunant, but I wouldn't know which other ones. Libertas and Traspes were officially neutral and thus never occupied, for example. 77topaz (talk) 10:15, September 27, 2017 (UTC)
 * Wasn't Traspes pro-axis though? :o horton11 15:04, September 27, 2017 (UTC)
 * They were officially neutral but supplied some aid to the Axis, just like Libertas were officially neutral but supplied some aid to the Allies. 77topaz (talk) 19:11, September 27, 2017 (UTC)


 * I just made Libertas realistic, if you want me to leave, then just say it. Wabba The I (talk) 20:00, September 27, 2017 (UTC)
 * I think you've done a lot of good work on Libertas, though I suppose you could have put some of the more extensive pages you retconned on, say, a user page, instead of deleting them entirely. But, in general, I think you've done good work on improving that wiki - some of the old pages were pretty ridiculous indeed. 77topaz (talk) 21:04, September 27, 2017 (UTC)
 * @Wabba: No one is active there, so you got the right to improve it. I strongly oppose your mass deletion of talk pages and images though. Especially, the latter, cuz deleting images is permanent, which is sad, cuz many of them were funny. Worst of all is the deletion of General Keup :'( --O u WTB 09:55, September 28, 2017 (UTC)
 * Yes, talk pages shouldn't be deleted even if the article they're associated with is deleted. 77topaz (talk) 20:19, September 28, 2017 (UTC)

Favorite year
What's your favorite year of historical activity on Wikination so far? I really like years, so: —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 23:13, October 9, 2017 (UTC) What's your favorite year of historical activity on Wikination? 2007 2008 2009 2010 2011 2012 2013 2014 2015 2016 2017

Good to see 2015 leading, as it's the correct answer. Not a big enough sample size, though. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 02:25, January 31, 2018 (UTC)
 * I suppose so. Why is 2015 best though? MyOwnBadSelf  ( talk  &middot;  stalk ) 21:44, January 31, 2018 (UTC)

Second elections
According to Kunar's system, it's time to run the second inactivity-maker of 2017 (aka elections). I'm running a CNP/KNPO combined list this time. What about the rest of you? MyOwnBadSelf ( talk  &middot;  stalk ) 22:16, October 10, 2017 (UTC)

Strongly contra. First revert all his takaviki changes, though the few non-takaviki things can change. Preferably, remove all references to the reform and earlier elections from history. Then wait for more activity. 5 users plus maybe Bart is not enough. Perhaps wait until Semyon is willing to be active, as the wiki just doesn't work without him. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 22:36, October 10, 2017 (UTC)

Yeah, I don't really think have new elections is necessary at this point, especially as we haven't even formed a government since the previous ones. 77topaz (talk) 02:53, October 11, 2017 (UTC)


 * Yes, it looks like we haven't formed a government since 2015. MyOwnBadSelf  ( talk  &middot;  stalk ) 04:11, October 11, 2017 (UTC)
 * Per Tåpas. --O u WTB 13:15, October 11, 2017 (UTC)

Gone
Dear people,

I have been considering this for a long time, but I made the decision to leave this wiki. This being for about a week (:o). I'll be travelling to Ísland, which is f*cking cute btw, from 16 to 20 October and thus be less active than usual (probably fully non-responsive). I put my fate in Tåpas and Semyon (Leifsland) to guard the wiki. So, cuz I luv u so much I wannit de let y'all know :3 --O u WTB 15:48, October 13, 2017 (UTC)

Ísland fuking kyút ðo. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 15:55, October 13, 2017 (UTC)


 * Are you planning to get drunk inspiration for Skaftgey? MyOwnBadSelf  ( talk  &middot;  stalk ) 09:42, October 18, 2017 (UTC)

Hey
I bought a book. horton11 18:54, November 30, 2017 (UTC)
 * Which book? MyOwnBadSelf  ( talk  &middot;  stalk ) 21:56, November 30, 2017 (UTC)
 * HGP.png It's from 1800 and I paid only 9 eur. horton11 17:21, December 1, 2017 (UTC)
 * What's it for? MyOwnBadSelf  ( talk  &middot;  stalk ) 04:07, December 5, 2017 (UTC)
 * Since it's a book about Peruvian history it's purpose is probably to be about Peruvian history :o --QytokantFRÅGOR??? 15:49, December 5, 2017 (UTC)
 * But it's from 1800, so if you're looking for a history book it's worth trying something more modern. I'd say its purpose is more as a collectors' item. MyOwnBadSelf  ( talk  &middot;  stalk ) 21:54, December 5, 2017 (UTC)
 * Agreed. --O u WTB 09:56, December 6, 2017 (UTC)
 * Nice. Oldest book I have is from 1891, Mendeleyev's Principles of Chemistry. I likewise don't use it to teach myself chemistry. --Semyon 20:48, December 6, 2017 (UTC)
 * Yes, although it's interesting to look at how things have changed. MyOwnBadSelf  ( talk  &middot;  stalk ) 03:05, December 7, 2017 (UTC)
 * Indeed. Mendeleyev actually wrote the book before he discovered the Periodic Table, without which I can barely conceive of chemistry as a discipline. --Semyon 00:33, December 9, 2017 (UTC)
 * I don't think anybody could. MyOwnBadSelf  ( talk  &middot;  stalk ) 03:20, December 9, 2017 (UTC)

Changes to the election system?
Have we agreed to revert Kunarian's changes? After all, they did only cause more confusion. MyOwnBadSelf ( talk  &middot;  stalk ) 05:24, December 20, 2017 (UTC)

I think we should revert them but hold no new elections until Semyon becomes active again. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 06:51, December 21, 2017 (UTC)


 * Perhaps. MyOwnBadSelf  ( talk  &middot;  stalk ) 08:17, December 21, 2017 (UTC)

Should we revert the changes to the fascist groups that that IP made? —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 17:26, February 25, 2018 (UTC)
 * :o --O u WTB 15:33, February 27, 2018 (UTC)