Forum:The Pub

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nl:Forum:De kroegli:Forum:De Kaffeero:RoWikicity:Cafeneasv:Forum:Krogen Welcome to The Pub! This is the general meeting place in Lovia. Inhabitants can make public announcements, have a friendly chat with some copatriots, or discuss crucial issues in Lovian politics or business. Speeches can also be made at Speakers' Corner. All archives of The Pub can be found here.

And suddenly the wiki was silent
What happened? :o --QytokantFRÅGOR??? 11:34, April 17, 2014 (UTC)


 * Too many people left and nobody replaced them. HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 13:50, April 17, 2014 (UTC)
 * :( --O u WTB 07:22, April 18, 2014 (UTC)
 * Yeah I first noticed it when I couldn't get bills passed in the Clymene state Council. Marcus/Michael Villanova 13:27, April 18, 2014 (UTC)
 * We need to do something about this and bring back activity, or else Oceana and Sylvania will secede and northern Lovia will become an overseas territory of Brunant. HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 14:49, April 18, 2014 (UTC)
 * Nah.. Don't think that'll be logic or even a boost for the activity. --O u WTB 15:17, April 18, 2014 (UTC)
 * Don't be so quick to dismiss that. A couple of well-known individuals were the masterminds to this plan and it's still could (potentially) happen. HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 15:42, April 18, 2014 (UTC)
 * And if Clymene doesn't want to become a Brunanter colony? --QytokantFRÅGOR??? 17:25, April 18, 2014 (UTC)
 * Of course they don't (well actually a handful might support something), though a colony is off the books as far as I'm aware (in favor of some French-style overseas territory/collectivity or something similar). That said as Lovian PM I will fight to the death to ensure the country is not divided. HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 13:28, April 19, 2014 (UTC)
 * And I will support the PM in his fight to ensure that Lovia remains undivided :P --QytokantFRÅGOR??? 16:30, April 19, 2014 (UTC)
 * Or we could just do a Clymene Independence Movement? That could be fun!? A Radical Lenninist-Vanguard movement rises up and takes over the state? Sounds cool  Marcus/Michael Villanova 00:53, April 20, 2014 (UTC)
 * That's also a good idea :P --QytokantFRÅGOR??? 08:08, April 20, 2014 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I think an independence movement or something similar would be a realistic thing to do. Maybe Clymene could declare independence, or have a referendum, or some sort of similar independence movement. Or even more exciting, Northern Lovia could declare independence from the southern states. Frijoles333 TALK 08:25, April 20, 2014 (UTC)
 * Yes, that would be interesting, though I don't see the north having the ability to sustain an independent country. HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 14:33, April 20, 2014 (UTC)
 * Way too many colons here. Anyway, we know that controversy, violence, and stuff like that make activity spike, so we should do something like this. I'd say the backstory would be that the devolution would cause strengthening of states' rights movements as they decide that they no longer need the federal government at all. This would let us go back to being unitary! —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 19:56, April 20, 2014 (UTC)
 * The Cornwallian People and Villanova Family could def lead the cause.Marcus/Michael Villanova 19:59, April 20, 2014 (UTC)
 * And in Kings there could be a spike in activity as the North of the state tries to become part of the cause whereas the south of the state and Newhaven wants closer ties with the south. Anyway, TM's right... conflict and controversy would lead to an increase an activity. Or, the backstory could be that the Northern States are getting sick of Sylvanian dominance of the economy and want to break free from the federal government Frijoles333 TALK 20:07, April 20, 2014 (UTC)
 * Yes, this could be a good idea. But I would have to oppose any cesessiont movement in my role as PM. Other characters of mine might be more open. HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 20:20, April 20, 2014 (UTC)
 * Yes, this would all be good. Perhaps the UN would decide to stay out this time, causing increased instability and panic. I think that Frijoles's idea would be perfect as well -- since the federal government is managing the economy less, Sylvania would dominate. I would say that we should play multiple characters; it just has to be fun and interesting so that we can get people to be active again. I could talk to Quarantine Zone again and see if he wants to come back and participate as well. Perhaps we could follow this up with a new election of Congress. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 21:13, April 20, 2014 (UTC)
 * Perhaps there would be Brunant citizens killed here that would lead to Brunanter involvement? And the killings could end up being a Tagog intelligence operation? —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 21:21, April 20, 2014 (UTC)
 * Possibly, that could be a good idea. Right now the territory I might see most likely falling under Brunanter influence might be Truth Island, but for other reasons. Marcus plans to declare Clymene independent and given that he is a socialist with nationalization in mind, the (mostly conservative-liberal) owners of the resorts and businesses in Adoha would be opposed to joining such a Clymene. With Lovia falling apart they might push for protection or inclusion in another country. IRL the US might be the more realistic one, but it'd be more itneresting to have a wikination take the position of providing security and stability as well as other services. HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 21:39, April 20, 2014 (UTC)
 * Lovia should end up re-uniting at the end. I was thinking that Noble City and maybe Newhaven would stay under government control as they are benefiting most under the current system while Oceana, West Sylvania, parts of Kings, and the north would each become a variety of rebel groups with only a little unity against the government and each with separate goals. Then various foreign governments (US and some Wikinations) would be manipulating or possibly intervening in order to gain territory, political power, etc. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 21:55, April 20, 2014 (UTC)
 * Well if splitting up Lovia means saving the site, I would not mind in the end (OOC of course). Though the rest you mention sounds about ok. HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 13:18, April 21, 2014 (UTC)

Shall we make a separate forum for planning? Or meet on chat? —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 21:38, April 20, 2014 (UTC)
 * Frijoles and I are on chat now, please come if you can. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 21:57, April 20, 2014 (UTC)
 * Well you don't seem to be on chat as the same times as me. HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 13:18, April 21, 2014 (UTC)
 * Yeah, there is not enough overlap, I think. Let's keep it on wiki. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 03:00, April 22, 2014 (UTC)


 * Hey Idea: The Clymene Marxist-Lenninist Union (CM-LU) Rises to power, kills Villanova and the family, a character I role play now becomes Leader of Clymene and take it from there? Marcus/Michael Villanova 23:14, April 21, 2014 (UTC)


 * Hey, I decided to plan a meeting in order to discuss the matter:
 * Location: Lovia Chat
 * Time: 15:00 (GMT +1) (UK)
 * Date: 22 April 2014
 *  Happy65   Talk CNP  LogoCNP.png 15:01, April 21, 2014 (UTC)
 * This, nor any time before 21:00 UTC on a weekday isn't going to work for me and I won't be able to be on chat this weekend or the next. I'd say let's just keep it here for now. Marcus, I don't think killing Villanova would be good unless you want to stop playing that character permanently. :P —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 02:59, April 22, 2014 (UTC)
 * Interesting idea Marcus, go with it. But wouldn't killing the Villanovas be too extreme? HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 13:22, April 22, 2014 (UTC)
 * Yeah the Char is sorta predictable. I'll get the revolution brewing this weekend or next week Marcus/Michael Villanova 22:09, April 22, 2014 (UTC)
 * As long as I am King, my friends, I will oppose whoever threatens my nation and any parts of it. My realm and it's citizens shall be safe at all costs. If you so much as think to hurt a single one of my subjects, you will pay for it dearly. King Sebastian I of Lovia (talk) 15:25, April 23, 2014 (UTC)

An important announcement to whom it may concern
I have an important announcement to whom it may concern. Truth Island has become an overseas territory of the Kingdom of Brunant following outrage from the island's citizens after mainland Clymeni citizens were interested in forming an independent socialist state. All citizens residing on Truth Island shall be given Brunanter passports, and will be awarded Brunanter citizenship. The new Prime Minister of the overseas territory of the Kingdom of Brunant is Melvin Ross. All citizens residing on Truth Island will not be able to vote in Lovian elections any longer, and instead only regional elections for Truth Island.

Signed, 

The Prime Minister of Brunant, Peter Wostor

The Minister of Brunanter External Affairs: Peter Wostor

The Lovian Government disputes this and does not recognize this illegal movement. The interest of a small minority of Clymeni citizens is not at all an excuse for this annexation. We request that Melvin Ross leave immediately. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 22:16, April 22, 2014 (UTC)

TimeMaster, you are no longer part of the Lovian Government, so you can't exactly make a statement on its behalf Frijoles333 TALK 22:19, April 22, 2014 (UTC)
 * I thought about that, but decided that this would be the response nonetheless and went ahead with it. Also, I am not playing any character here. You can't exactly say anyone controls the government itself, only characters. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 23:00, April 22, 2014 (UTC)
 * Well, actually, I suppose you could say that people do control the government, and that those people are those whose characters are elected to congress. You are not one of those people, since you chose not to stand for re-election Frijoles333 TALK 23:07, April 22, 2014 (UTC)
 * I don't agree, and this is irrelevant and is detracting from the situation intending to re-ignite activity, NOT just be "lol Brunant takes over Truth Island Lovia sucks the end". Also, TimeMaster has never been part of the government. Perhaps you were referring to Krosby? —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 23:15, April 22, 2014 (UTC)
 * I think that a territory should have the right of autodetermination, and if the people wanted it to be separate they should. Traspes (talk) 22:40, April 22, 2014 (UTC)
 * This is a takeover by Brunant, and there was no vote besides someone writing "there was a vote", which doesn't count. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 23:00, April 22, 2014 (UTC)
 * Similarly, you can't say that this seccession is somehow invalid just because one person thinks it should be. At the same time, myself and others decided to go ahead with this seccession, and you can't declare it in someway invalid just because you don't think its a good idea. Frijoles333 TALK 23:07, April 22, 2014 (UTC)
 * But the people interested to work on the Truth Island wanted to be separated, and nobody that was in Truth Island was against. Traspes (talk) 23:14, April 22, 2014 (UTC)
 * I'm in Truth Island and this was very sudden and I was not consulted. Perhaps you went ahead with Happy's random time of a chat meeting that was convenient for him but made me unhappy and discussed it there without me? Anyway, I thought it was obviously that this is a roleplay. I myself am not saying that this is invalid. In fact, I am quite glad it is happening. I merely saying that the Lovian government considers this invalid, but can't do much about it as Brunant is much more powerful. Thus, we will need to find a way to roleplay the recovery of Truth Island, as if you think that Truth Island should secede indefinitely, that is quite silly. The idea here is to re-ignite activity, not just be "lol Brunant takes over Truth Island Lovia sucks the end". —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 23:18, April 22, 2014 (UTC)
 * Actually, I've discussed it quite extensively with both Horton and Happy. And you could have contributed to the discussion without coming on chat... You could have posted a message here or on my talk page and I would have addressed your concerns. Also, I find it a little insulting that you believe the extent of my thinking on the matter is "lol Brunant takes over Truth Island Lovia sucks the end" Frijoles333 TALK 23:23, April 22, 2014 (UTC)
 * And I find it insulting that you think discussing it with Horton and Happy but not anyone else is sufficient. How was I supposed to contribute when the pages were already created when I came on today? e_e I could not have contributed. But this is no longer important. We are just claiming to be insulted at this point, so let's agree to disagree and stop. In the future, I recommend that we keep stuff off chat unless every interested user can be on. I have posted my concerns here, as you can see. And the quote that has now been posted three times is how I feel to some extent about it... I think we should have waited longer. But as I said, this is irrelevant. Let's try to make the best of this and get to the roleplay, which should be the reason we are doing this (please clarify if it is not). —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 23:38, April 22, 2014 (UTC)


 * A notice was posted in the Pub yesterday and it's not my fault you didn't log on until now, but as you said, let's stop the discussion now. Yes, let's try to make the best of this. And of course it's not too late... you can still contribute, just leave suggestions on the talk pages or even go ahead and edit. But most importantly of all, it's getting late now in the UK, so bye for now :) Frijoles333 TALK 23:55, April 22, 2014 (UTC)
 * I only saw something about Truth Island being the most likely location to be under Brunanter influence. I will be gone for the next two weekends, so I might not be able to get any more movements started for three weeks. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 01:05, April 23, 2014 (UTC)

To review: TimeMaster (the OOC user) supports the annexation/secession because it will increase activity, but wishes that it will be reversed at the end of this series of events (a few weeks to a few months). The Lovian Government (IC), who TimeMaster played momentarily because their response was obvious, is against it because it is a violation of their sovereignty. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 23:22, April 22, 2014 (UTC)


 * It is interesting for Truth Island to be remain separate of Lovia. There shouldn't be any more separation but I wold like this one to be permanant. Traspes (talk)
 * It should absolutely not be permanent. The point is to roleplay its re-acquisition, and, if possible, its separation, but that seems to have been done without any, and retroactively two weeks ago for some reason. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 11:07, April 23, 2014 (UTC)
 * Honestly now I'd actually be interested in something more permanent. A lot of work is going towards the island and its autonomy and tbh the relationship between TI and Lovia would remain the same. We could still roleplay it's separation and perhaps even come to some agreement where both Brunant and Lovia are in charge. Usually I would not support retroactivity, but in this case it might make more sense. HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 12:09, April 23, 2014 (UTC)
 * As you King, I demand you silly islanders to cease this craziness right this instant or consequences will never be the same! King Sebastian I of Lovia (talk) 15:26, April 23, 2014 (UTC)

Citizenship
There is no Truth Island citizenship, with persons permanently living on the island prior to 8 April 2014 or born on or after that date being conferred Brunanter Citizenship. But what about non-permanent residents, new (Lovian) residents to the island and Truth Island-born people living outside? Would dual citizneship apply? Would/should there be limits, such as requiring residency? Ideas? HORTON11 : •  15:38, April 22, 2014 (UTC)

Citizenship Lovians with connections to Truth Island* should acquire Brunanter citizenship Truth Islanders should continue to keep Lovian citizenship Both of the above should acquire/maintain both citizenships Lovians and Truth Islanders should only maintain the single citizenship

* This would include those who are part-time residents or those who were born in the island.

Should there be limits as to who can acquire or maintain the other citizenship? Yes No

Truth Island currency referendum
Which currency should Truth Island use? Lovian dollar Euro Its own currency

Here's a proposal of dollar notes. What do you guys think? HORTON11 : •  19:49, April 22, 2014 (UTC)

Even more important message
If you guys are planning on any big changes, revolutions and stuff like that? Count me in. Count me right in. Because there ain't gonna be a single revolution, fight or history changing event taking place without including me, for as long as Ygo August Donia walks God's green earth and the Donia Clan reigns supreme in the Emerald Mountains. I will not have any foreign nation taking over Lovia and if you so much as try to give away even a single acre of my land, you will pay for it.

You guys want a civil war? It's ON bitches! There's still a King in these lands, and your King ain't having any of this nonsense. You must not forget I am a veteran of the Lovian Civil War and I will not have my lands be devided or taken over. Not by Brunant, not by anybody else. And I am willing to spill blue blood over the freedom of sovereignty of my nation. King Sebastian I of Lovia (talk) 15:20, April 23, 2014 (UTC)


 * I like you enthusiasm, but is it really necessary to kill people at the moment? All Truth Island has done is declare a "status aparte" under Brunant, but in reality maintain pretty much the same relations with Lovia. That said, as Marxist-Leninist revolution will happen in Clymene in a few days, which could? be of more concern. HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 15:33, April 23, 2014 (UTC)
 * It is unlawful, it is unconsitutional, and as a King of all of Lovia, which includes Truth Island, I will not stand for this. I will send whatever police or military forces we have to undo what has been done here. If Brunant and the treacherous bastards of Untruthful Island don't take some serious steps back and reconsider this nonsense, I will be forced to use whatever is in my power to stop this. If needed I will go outside the law and rally brave young Lovians behind me and personally march to the docks of Noble City, then ship us to the beaches of Truth Islands and kick out every single Brunanter citizen I get my hands on. Then we'll see how well the rats can swim! You King has spoken! King Sebastian I of Lovia (talk) 15:38, April 23, 2014 (UTC)
 * Sure, Lovia must do something about this, but violence is never the solution. And while Truth Islanders may be considered Brunanter, they are also Lovians. Lastly, anything done should go through congress and be within the scope of our law and what is considered to be humane. HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 15:43, April 23, 2014 (UTC)
 * You have overplayed your hand here, my friend. Overplayed it real good. Ukraine lost Crimea only because Ukraine is a weak corrupt nation ran by racist sissies. However, Lovia is a glorious and powerful nation of strong, proud and brave young men and women. And the proud people of Lovia see this for what it is: an act of aggression by a foreign entity. No more, and no less. This is treason and those responsible will be brought before a Court of Justice. Truth Island is Lovian, and not Brunanter. And if Brunant does not realise this and step back, our nations are from this day forward no longer allies in any way shape or form, be it economical, political or military. And we will take steps to secure our grip on this island. It shall never belong to you. Together we stand, Lovians, divided we fall! King Sebastian I of Lovia (talk) 15:49, April 23, 2014 (UTC)
 * So what, massacre a few thousand people for wanting to be separate from Lovia? HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 15:53, April 23, 2014 (UTC)
 * I know not what massacre you speak of, you madman. I will simply go after those responsible. They will be put in jail and those who oppose the rightful rule of Lovia will be punished accordingly. We will not hit back until attacked first, but we will show off our force so the world knows we mean shit when we say shit. Talk is cheap, actions speak louder. We will kick off the Brunanter spies and agents responsible, and the Lovian traitors. King Sebastian I of Lovia (talk) 15:56, April 23, 2014 (UTC)
 * There are some 15 policemen and one armed guardsman in the island, and neither them nor the locals are willing to be drawn into a fight. Do not forget we must resolve this with diplomacy and not the iron fist. As Prime Minister I will ensure that as a democracy we will resolve this democratically. HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 16:00, April 23, 2014 (UTC)
 * You are no true Lovian how dare you call yourself our Prime Minister? You are treacherous scum is what you are. And those fifteen police officers will be taken into custody. The guardsman will be too. They will be disarmed and replaced with Lovian officers. And the Lovian flag will wave on all of Truth Island! King Sebastian I of Lovia (talk) 16:07, April 23, 2014 (UTC)


 * Although as the official Prime Minister of Brunant I am required to support this (representing the government), I believe that we should keep Truth Island as part of Lovia. No matter what anyone says, Lovia formed the wikinational community and even if it becomes inactive, we should keep Truth Island as part of Lovia for a legacy. Despite how hard other wikinations try, it is likely that no wikination will ever overtake Lovia's activity several years ago (20 active users, most edited daily). I find it highly unrealistic how Truth Islanders would be interested in joining Brunant, a small nation with less than 1,000,000 population because of both its strategic location, and the fact there is a variety of other countries around the world.  Happy65   Talk CNP  LogoCNP.png 17:14, April 23, 2014 (UTC)
 * Thank you for your calm and wise words in such a volatile and potentially explosive situation. Both of our nations must at all times respect each other's individual sovereignty and terrotorial rights. We cannot bow our heads to the demands of a few insane seperatists, and those responsible for this treachery will be punished. My men are sailing to Truth Island as we speak and will soon have the Lovian flag waving on every street. King Sebastian I of Lovia (talk) 17:17, April 23, 2014 (UTC)
 * I can see your points here Happy, but I do want to preserve the legacy of Lovia, and that's why I've supported the secession of Truth Island. We've already seen how it's brought activity levels up in Lovia, and how it has taken Lovia back to the good ol' days of strong opinions and heated discussions. I know that no nation will ever overtake Lovia, and I do believe that this is a great wiki with a great community behind it. Maybe this could be trigger that brings back full activity in Lovia. Although it's unlikely, maybe if we do go ahead with secession Lovia will return to full activity, which can only be a good thing Frijoles333 TALK 17:21, April 23, 2014 (UTC)
 * This has brought about renewed activity, discussion and atmosphere, something which had long disappeared from the site. I would not agree with any other islands, states or cities of Lovia being partitioned, though keeping Truth Island as an autonomous condominium will add a nice element to wikinational foreign affairs. HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 17:31, April 23, 2014 (UTC)

The Lovian Government should also threaten to cut off diplomatic ties with Brunant if they do not withdraw within a few days (they will ignore this ultimatum). I am willing to consider autonomy for Truth Island, but personally do not support it. Regions should not get special privileges for having an independence movement at one time. If Truth Island gets autonomy, Oceana would need to as well, among others. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 21:37, April 23, 2014 (UTC)

Also, Frijoles, I hope you understand that the controversy is what is causing the spike in activity. It could be any controversy, being a Brunant takeover has nothing to do with it, and remaining part of Brunant will not help at all, unless you intend to bring Brunant users over to here to work on it, but I doubt that will help the activity here as there are only a few Brunant-only users. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 22:18, April 23, 2014 (UTC)

A message from your PM
Regarding the situation in Truth Island, I stand by the unity and indivisibility of Lovia, a messaged shared by both the King and the government. No force will be used nor bloodshed spilled over this matter, though I will authorize in a plenipotentiary manner the sending of several Lovian policemen to ensure that Lovia's interest are represented and that the island remains safe and secure.

While I do believe that Truth Islanders should be able to manage their own affairs and to that, a vote is held to determine the island's status, held freely and fairly with sufficient oversight. The previous referendum was not held in a proper manner, being the work of local secessionists and Brunant and thus should not form the basis on which the Island is organized. A third nation will be involved in overseeing it and until then Truth Island will continue to be under Lovian rule.


 * J. Abrahams, Prime Minister HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 17:19, April 23, 2014 (UTC)


 * At last, our Prime Minister shows some balls and condemns Brunanter aggression and the policies of insane succesionists. The Lovian flag waves once more, and Lovia is one and whole again! One nation devided under one crown. King Sebastian I of Lovia (talk) 18:03, April 23, 2014 (UTC)

A message from Marcel
Thank you, Justin, for your wise words. At times like this, we should try and overcome our territorial, cultural and political differences and work towards a solution that is in the best interests of both Lovia and Truth Island. I implore the Government not to take military action, and I implore Melvin Ross and the citizens of Truth Island to open up to talks with the Lovian Government. I call for Truth Island to co-operate with Lovia, and embrace the benefits of being part of a Lovia that respects the differences between its peoples and territories. Like you, I am concerned for the future of Truth Island, which is why I support Truth Island being part of a strong, united Lovia.


 * Marcel Cebara, MOTC Frijoles333 TALK 17:31, April 23, 2014 (UTC)

A poster from Marcel


This hastily made poster shows how Truth Island and Lovia are better together

''':Best. Thing. Ever. King Sebastian I of Lovia (talk) 17:47, April 23, 2014 (UTC)'''

OOC Proposal
To be honest, I think we perhaps should put this on pause for a few more days. This is for several reasons:
 * The Independence of Truth Island is too sudden, and to make things worse, it's retroactive. We should be roleplaying this out, not saying that it was done days ago. It wouldn't make sense for the government to make responses two weeks later -- it should be two days at most. Of course, we could make that retroactive too, but I feel like it would be more difficult than just making it real-time. Remember, the point here is for it to be riveting, in order bring back old users.
 * We still are missing several important users, like Oos. We should probably wait for them to show up before too much is done.
 * I am going to be gone for the next two weekends (as well as Thursday and Friday!), so if that could be reduced to one interfering with me being involved in this, I would greatly appreciate it.
 * A few more days of planning could be useful. We can use this to make propaganda, work on articles in secret, etc. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 22:12, April 23, 2014 (UTC)

Another shocking twist...
Melvin Ross, leader of the Truth Island Democratic Party, was spotted early this morning at NCIA with his wife, boarding a flight to the United States. Ross is believed to have fled Truth Island late last night, although this has not yet been confirmed. At the airport, Ross refused to speak to the press, although it is believed that he is fleeing the island after the Lovian government threatened military action and a trial for Ross.

Jane Anderson, spokesperson for the Truth Island Democratic Party, of which Ross is the leader, denied that Ross is fleeing the country. In the same statement, she said that Ross "will open up to talks about joint rule of the island, although he will stand defiant that more powers must be given to local people".

Joanne Reid, a staunch Lovian unionist, and leader of the Truth Island Socialist Party, which forms the main opposition in the Truth Island Council, said last night after Mr Ross had fled "Once again Mr. Ross has proven himself as a traitor to his people, prepared to put Truth Island's future in jeopardy with the sole aim of finding himself fame and power. Truth Island's future is with Lovia, and the Truth Islanders are not prepared to put up with Mr. Ross' madness any longer".

Frijoles333 TALK 08:36, April 24, 2014 (UTC)

Clymene
As Prime Minister, I call on all Lovians to hold a minute of silence for the Villanovas and others that have been brutally murdered by a proclaimed Marxist regime in Clymene. Unlike the recent developments in Truth Island, this is a violent, nondemocratic coup and will not be tolerated by Lovians or their government. I implore U.J. Abernathy and other communist rebels in the state to peacefully surrender or face swift action, be it economic, military or other.


 * J. Abrahams, Prime Minister. HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 13:37, April 24, 2014 (UTC)
 * A nation smiles, a nation weeps. We all cry in unison as this tragedy unfolds. With the memory of the victims saved forever on our mind's eye, we shall go out and end all those responsible. Rest in peace, fallen heroes. You shall soon be avanged. King Sebastian I of Lovia (talk) 16:40, April 25, 2014 (UTC)

Lovian Governor to Truth Island
Given that Truth Island is being organized as a condominium, we will need to select a governor that will represent King Sebastian, who is co-head of state. If anyone is interested feel free to sign up below and we can hold a vote here to select them. Candidates may apply until this Sunday and next week we will hold a vote. HORTON11 : •  18:37, April 24, 2014 (UTC)


 * Joanne Reid Frijoles333 TALK 18:45, April 24, 2014 (UTC)

HELP!!!
Hi everyone, this isn't very Lovia related, but I'd really appreciate some support with something that's going wrong in Prasia... On many of the pages, the images have been distorted, and are either blurry or stretched (Look at this page or this page to see what I mean)

Does anyone know how to fix this problem? I've tried finding help on Community Central, but I can't find anything and I don't know how to ask for help :/ Frijoles333 TALK 19:33, April 24, 2014 (UTC)


 * It appears the same thing is happening in Kemburg :O Frijoles333 TALK 19:41, April 24, 2014 (UTC)

Time to march in the troops
The time has come to put down the Brunanter spies in our midst? I see a unofficial rebellion has occurred. This is surely a moment to act? Hoffmann Kunarian TALK 20:05, April 24, 2014 (UTC)

Welcome back... Which rebellion are you talking about... Truth Island or Clymene? Frijoles333 TALK 20:07, April 24, 2014 (UTC)
 * Truth Island, but if Clymene wants to deal with the same issue then sure. I mean to be honest if Lovia's soveriegnty is not respected by it's own Congressmen then I feel that Sylvania might as well move to re-establish its own sovereignty. Or if other states want to, create a joint sovereignty with Sylvania. Hoffmann LogoCNP2wt.png Kunarian TALK 20:13, April 24, 2014 (UTC)
 * Yeah, in Clymene Marcus has started a Marxist revolution, which unlike the situation in Truth Island has resulted in the deaths of innocent civilians. In TI, the secession happened due to public opinion amongst local residents, mainly because they felt the economy would be threatened by Marcus' revolution. Brunant didn't come in with great force to take it over- the citizens seceded because of their own wishes. Although to be honest, the situation seems to be sorting itself out with a proposal of joint rule between Lovia and Brunant. Also, the Congressmen are respecting Lovia's sovereignty, they were just acting as different characters when the secession took place Frijoles333 TALK 20:18, April 24, 2014 (UTC)
 * Brunant has no right to the land. On the Marxist revolution, where is that at the moment? Sylvania may need to lead the way in this so it would be good for an update. Hoffmann LogoCNP2wt.png Kunarian TALK 20:21, April 24, 2014 (UTC)
 * Marcus made a page about it here. Unlike the Truth Island situation, the one in Clymene is getting violent and threatens democracy in the state Frijoles333 TALK 20:25, April 24, 2014 (UTC)
 * Seems like Sylvania might just have to show Lovia how to be a nation. Hoffmann LogoCNP2wt.png Kunarian TALK 20:47, April 24, 2014 (UTC)
 * But of course, the state of Kings will stand side by side with Sylvania to restore peace and democracy to Clymene. As Governor of Kings, I cannot do nothing when innocent Lovian civilians are being killed Frijoles333 TALK 20:50, April 24, 2014 (UTC)
 * Sign the declaration so we may bring order back to Lovia. Hoffmann LogoCNP2wt.png Kunarian TALK 21:00, April 24, 2014 (UTC)

I do not see the need to use force against Truth Island. The situation is being diplomatically resolved in a way to best benefit the local Truth Islanders. As for Clymene, if the marxist rebels are unwilling to surrender we should take action. HORTON11 : •  21:08, April 24, 2014 (UTC)


 * Yes, there is no need for military force in TI... the situation is being resolved with Lovia retaining a certain level of control over the Island. Clymene is a different matter entirely Frijoles333 TALK 21:10, April 24, 2014 (UTC)

The Governors Declarants
GOVERNORS PLEASE SIGN TO SHOW YOUR SOLIDARITY TO MOVE TO RESTORE ORDER TO LOVIA

I, a Governor of Lovia and a servant to the people, do declare that until such a time as when order has been restored to Lovia that the state I serve and its people are now a sovereign separate entity that will act independently of Congress.

I do declare that I will use the independence granted by this sovereignty to eliminate all foes to the democracy of Lovia and to the King's peace.

I do declare that I will use whatever powers necessary to bring the State of Clymene back into the fold of democracy and peace.

I do declare that once this is done, the Governors of the States that sign this, barring the rebellious state of Clymene will hold court with the King and work out a new treaty for Lovia.

I do declare that this treaty will emulate the 1905 treaty, that brought Lovia together in peace, and will restore peace back to Lovia once more.

I do declare that I will uphold this declaration, lest I be named a traitor and banished from Lovia.

Signatories:
 * Sylvania - Hoffmann LogoCNP2wt.png Kunarian TALK 21:00, April 24, 2014 (UTC)

This declaration usurps the control of the unconstitutional and undemocratic Abrahams Government. Abrahams has violated the constitution and bypassed the Congress, Sylvania for one will not stand for it. Any member of the Abrahams Government found in Sylvania after the 30th of April will be arrested on sight for a traitor to Lovia. Please note that Sylvania still recognises the King as rightful head of state of Sylvania while we are in this interregnum. Hoffmann Kunarian TALK 21:33, April 24, 2014 (UTC)


 * Your King is with you. We will never surrender. One Lovia, one leader, one people! King Sebastian I of Lovia (talk) 14:06, April 25, 2014 (UTC)

The situation on Truth Island
There have been a lot of extreme sides taken on the conflict in Truth Island. As you King, in light of these unfortunate recent developments, I consider it my duty to set the record straight on what has happened once and for all. So that there is no doubt as to what has happened, what will happen and what is happening right now.


 * There have been seperatists active on Truth Islands. These seperatists have held a referendum, which they claimed to be representing the entirity of it's people. This is a blatant lie.
 * The referendum was overseen by Brunant officials. They claim it to be truthful and correct but it was not. The majority of the islanders wishes to remain a part of Lovia and therefore the seccession of the island is illegal.
 * The seperatists have been and still are supported by the nation of Brunant

All of this has been illegal and in breach with international law. Lovia is one nation, devided under one leader with one flag. It has a democratically elected government and will act according to it's constitution, in accordance with international law. The situation of uncertainty and fear on Truth Island has to stop, the situation on the ground dealt with and international law respected. We cannot and will not allow our nation to live in fear, and we will respect and honour the wishes of all our people, listen to their complaints and protect their rights. There are however some things we cannot ignore under any circumstances. We will therefore need the following to happen.


 * We, the people of Lovia, need an official apology from the government of Brunant. Our two nations have been friends for a long time now, our Royal Houses have close ties. We are taken aback by what has happened and need explainations. Above all, we need closure. Therefore we need an official statement of apologize for their inexcusable behaviour.
 * An investigation into the nature of the referendum, the foreign meddling in our affairs and the criminal activities of various seperatists has to be started and done by a neutral third party, paid by the governments of both nations involved.
 * All those seperatists responsible for what has happened over the course of the past few days and weeks will be held accountable for their misdoings. They will all be brought before a court of law.

We will deal with this situation swiftly, strongly and in a matter that allows for no other interpretation then the following: Lovia is Lovia and what is Lovian will remain Lovian until the end of days. Henceforth, we will move on to more pressing matters.


 * Long live Lovia, and long live the Lovian people in whatever parts of the real they may live! King Sebastian I of Lovia (talk) 15:41, April 25, 2014 (UTC)
 * If there is a later opportunity for autonomy in Truth Island and any attemps at removing or arresting the lawfully-elected government are halted then I do support this. HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 15:52, April 25, 2014 (UTC)
 * Those opportunities always are there. But right now the focus has to be on protecting our national interests, ridding ourselves of the enemies from within our own ranks and taking swift and unified action. Kunarian will understand this and will respect you for not backing down. He, and the people of Lovia with him, will instead admire our strength and wisdom in solving this most delicate of situation. I believe I have been more then reasonable and merciful in this, have I not? So now it is your turn to do some consessions. King Sebastian I of Lovia (talk) 15:57, April 25, 2014 (UTC)

Another message from your PM
Lovia is quickly falling apart and it is time we take swift action to counter any threat to our peaceful existence. With regards to Truth Island, the Brunanter government is willing to make amends and relinquish any interest in the island to ensure peace between our nations. Lovia will directly reassert control over the island and will take action in the best interests of our nation and of the local populace. Police will be sent there not only to maintain peace and order, but to preempt any armed incursions by the rebel Marxist regime in Clymene. In regards to that, we will not negotiate with a terror regime and will ensure that the state comes under Lovian control as soon as possible. Thirdly, I would like to assure all governors and states that the Federal Government will take every necessary action to ensure that the country remains unified, and would like to ensure that any actions taken in regards to these movements will be handled federally, so there will be no need for independent state action.

People of Lovia, stand beside your country and your lawfully elected government and we will ensure that the country remains unified and stronger than ever when all this is resolved.

J. Abrahams, Prime Minister. HORTON11 : •  16:27, April 25, 2014 (UTC)


 * The Kings State Government hereby pledges its full support to the federal government, and supports a strong, federal movement for peace in Lovia Frijoles333 TALK 16:43, April 25, 2014 (UTC)
 * The Sylvanian State Government demands that Brunant remove all officials and publicly renounce any claim to the island, should this occur then Sylvania will gladly consider turning back to federal action over state action. Hoffmann LogoCNP2wt.png Kunarian TALK 17:52, April 25, 2014 (UTC)

In the name of the Brunanter Government, I would like to stress my sincere apology for any actions concerning Truth Island undertaken in the name of Brunant. At the moment, the last and only representative of the government has been removed and there will be no further claims on the island. It is in the best interest of both our nations, longtime peaceful allies, that we remain strongand work together. Furthermore, it Lovia were to request it, my government would be willing to give any support needed to Lovia in regards to other developing crises in the country.


 * Queen_Helene_signature.png

Activity
Are we gonna continue with the Lovian revolts? Or do I have to invite some other nation to take over another island here? HORTON11 : •  13:14, April 29, 2014 (UTC)
 * Never! That Lew bude vurar! Oshenna, mine priatel! --O u WTB 15:01, April 29, 2014 (UTC)
 * Don't confuse a drop in activity with us having dropped interest, Horton. We may be silent but we don't sit still. We're... plotting...
 * PS: On a more serious note, TimeMaster asked for us to wait a bit since he cannot be very active right now. We are simply being considerate. King Sebastian I of Lovia (talk) 15:26, April 29, 2014 (UTC)
 * Yes, but he's away for several weeks, plus Tagog and their buddies showed interest in getting in on the action. I would not agree to that, but if it brings up activity, well... HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 15:44, April 29, 2014 (UTC)

You guys can start without me, it's not a big deal. I'd say get a couple more movements going, and I'll return and make some actions when possible. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 21:36, April 30, 2014 (UTC)

WFC 2014
Alright people, time to get out your Lovia shirts and hats. The Lovia national football team qualified for WFC 2014 in Qatar and have been placed in Group 4, where they will play Cettatie, Jamaica and Saint Kitts-Nevis. HORTON11 : •  14:45, April 30, 2014 (UTC)

The tournament will begin on the 10th of May! 77topaz (talk) 01:08, May 4, 2014 (UTC)

Visit Brunant video
Be sure to visit! HORTON11 : •  13:45, May 1, 2014 (UTC)
 * Looking good :) --O u WTB 17:00, May 1, 2014 (UTC)
 * Thank you! I "borrowed" a couple of Polish cities to stand in, but it turned out nice. There's a photo slide video on the visit Brunant website too. HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 17:14, May 1, 2014 (UTC)

Hey, and if you liked that check out my newest video. A move opening credit. HORTON11 : •  17:54, May 1, 2014 (UTC)
 * Haha, you did a great job there too :P --O u WTB 09:40, May 2, 2014 (UTC)
 * Danke. For only my third movie it turned out quite nicely. HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 13:23, May 2, 2014 (UTC)

ABRAHAMS GOVERNMENT ARRESTED
After refusing to leave the halls of Congress, Justin Abrahams along with several other government members including the Governor of Kings have been arrested. Hoffmann calls on the King to support his action to show that Abrahams shall not be recognised, as Abrahams continues to deny violating the integrity of Lovia but the people know better.

Please feel free to comment. Hoffmann Kunarian TALK 19:35, May 3, 2014 (UTC)


 * News sources are revealing this to be a highly elaborate hoax by some anti-Lovian radicals. PM Abrahams and other government officials continued their daily activities, with the PM giving a speech to small business owners. Initial reaction by a majority of Noble Cityers was of shock and disbelief and solidarity for their elected government. HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 19:46, May 3, 2014 (UTC)
 * Why are you claiming that this is a hoax when you're arrested and now even dead. All the crap you've just posted is about as stupid as you can get Horton. Hoffmann LogoCNP2wt.png Kunarian TALK 19:52, May 3, 2014 (UTC)
 * Kunarian, I'd stop this now if I were you. You can't just declare that someone else's character is dead. You need to discuss this properly with us, rather than just making up pathetic excuses like "he threw himself into a brick wall". Frijoles333 TALK 19:57, May 3, 2014 (UTC)
 * I'll discuss things when Horton faces the facts and either chooses going to Kings or being arrested. Hoffmann LogoCNP2wt.png Kunarian TALK 19:59, May 3, 2014 (UTC)
 * What facts? Frijoles333 TALK 20:25, May 3, 2014 (UTC)
 * Everybody calm down. There is no hoax, these are the facts on the ground. Now let us find a solution for this nasty situation. King Sebastian I of Lovia (talk) 20:38, May 3, 2014 (UTC)

PM implores for unity
Dear Lovians,

Our country is being torn apart by a few violents extremists, both in Clymene and in Sylvania. Now is the time to stand fast and unite against all threats to Lovian unity. I urge the Clymene communists and Lukas Hoffmann to not continue in this path of destruction, to refrain from using force and to peacefully and diplomatically discuss any grievances. HORTON11 : •  19:53, May 3, 2014 (UTC)

The government of Pintona will support the governmen tof Lovia, we can be a medaitor.MMunson-talk- SP 01:01, May 4, 2014 (UTC)

Of war and peace
Lovia was as good as dead before the Truth Island situation struck the nation. The Clymene Crisis then stirred our history's pot even more. These two situations have the potential to cause a significant revival, along the lines of the 2011 Lovian Civil War. In order for things to work, however, we need a few things to happen, and we need them to happen quickly.
 * 1) Everything that is going to take place, will be discussed beforehand. Some small details and a plot twist here and there will be allowed to keep things interesting, but I suggest we discuss and determine an outcome and end date before things get out of control and nobody know what is going on anymore. To avoid confusion we discuss these things, and I suggest we do so here.
 * 2) We decide what will be the outcome and we do so together. Who lives and who dies can only be decided by the people who control the character. No exceptions. Prime Ministers may deposed, governments fall and social order can crumble for all I care but we will discuss it first. If we cannot come to an agreement that everyone agrees with, too bad. We will try to find compromises but in the end, majority decides.
 * 3) We ask for the return of as many old and unactive users as possible. We get as many people involved as possible. In 2011, the Civil War made a lot of new and old users edit a lot. The conflict's page became our most visited page and Yuri's UNLOR ensured order was (somewhat restored).
 * 4) We keep all options open. It's all on the table. Lovia as a unified nation may collapse. We may all go down in a blaze of glory. Nobody's job, position and home is safe. We will discuss things well, and thoroughly. The Lovian state may rise and fall again, or fall never to get up on it's feet. Let's be real here: Lovia was so unactive lately many of us expected it to die a slow death! So why not go down in a spectacular way? We all get older, busier. Life goes on. To have something as beautiful as Lovia die a slow and painful death would be a shame. She deserves better.

Let's discuss! Don't be afraid to cause anarchy, rebellion, destruction and chaos. Do not ever shy away from controversy. Lovia may arise as a phoenix from her ashes, or may remain in ashes forever. But whatever happens, we decide here. And we decide together as a Nation. As the proud, loving citizens of a place we used to love and care about so deeply. Lovia does not have an eternal life. It started in 2007 and it's 2014 now. That's seven amazing years. We've had a good run, whatever happens, no one can take that away from us.

Get as many people involved in this as you can. Drag them from whatever godforsaken boring hellholes of a wiki they found refuge in, bombard their talk pages with reminders. Get them back, and get them here. So we can talk about how to do this thing. Because if we are going to do this, my friends, we will do it well.

This is your King's proposal.

God bless Lovia and all it's citizens!
 * King Sebastian I of Lovia (talk) 21:02, May 3, 2014 (UTC)
 * This is a good idea. But yoyu should also include a plan for peace and not jsut violence.MMunson-talk- SP

General order
Two points: --O u WTB 11:02, May 4, 2014 (UTC)
 * 1) Never undo remarks on talk pages/forum.
 * 2) Each user controls his own characters. You can't kill off a main character of another user.

Last months
Since Jhon Lewis died a couple of months ago (still sad about it), I don't know anything about what's happening here in Lovia. Can someone tell me (short) what were/are the main events here the last months, thanks. Wabba The I (talk) 19:54, May 5, 2014 (UTC)

Firstly, Lovia died out and became inactive. After a while, Horton11 took over Truth Island as a Brunanter overseas territory. Days after, Marcus gave Clymene to some communist rebel group. Since then, some rebel group is holding Members of the Congress hostage, with the exception of Alexei Krasnov. Horton reverted that, and now Kunarian and Sunkist want Justin Abrahams arrested or dead.  Happy65   Talk CNP   18:50, May 6, 2014 (UTC)

First of all: I am really sad about the current situation: communists, hostage, inactive ... but we can still create adn talk about other subjects (non-political) and this is really unrealistic!! Wabba The I (talk) 18:28, May 15, 2014 (UTC)

What happened to the new activity, anyway? I was sitting back and watching it unfold when it petered out. :[ —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 01:02, May 16, 2014 (UTC)

I suppose we're going to have to accept Burenia as the leading wikinàtsia instead of Lovia :P --QytokantFRÅGOR??? 05:32, May 16, 2014 (UTC)
 * Or Mäöres :o --O u WTB 17:17, May 16, 2014 (UTC)
 * Flag of Norway.png Nesvârjë! :( --QytokantFRÅGOR??? 17:59, May 16, 2014 (UTC)

Burenia should invade Lovia. That might whip up activity è. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 01:48, May 17, 2014 (UTC)
 * Yeah, we should definitely get rid of the takavíhki dijålektaqë here è :P --QytokantFRÅGOR??? 07:32, May 17, 2014 (UTC)

You guys might want to start learning Burenian now :P --QytokantFRÅGOR??? 12:07, May 17, 2014 (UTC)

If we had a military we could have some junior officer or coloner declare a coup and make himself president. And Ithpught the Tagogese wanted to crush Lovian democracy. HORTON11 : •  14:28, May 17, 2014 (UTC)

Maybe a proxy war between Brunant, Tagog, and Burenia, with the (Lovian/Sylvanian) government futilely trying to maintain control? —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 16:30, May 17, 2014 (UTC)

Well Brunant would be likely to back Lovia. HORTON11 : •  18:52, May 17, 2014 (UTC)

If I may intervene. Tagog, Brunant and Burenia are almost a quarter of a world away. They do not have the military projection power to land a severe force. If they had control of an airport maybe, but they don't. Especially not now. Hoffmann Kunarian TALK 20:19, May 17, 2014 (UTC)

Apparently Tagog or Chvarvia or one of those nations had atomic bombs or were developing them, plus the planes to transport them. Brunant has no air force nor blue-water navy so any assistance would largely be financial and technical (realistically we could only send specialists in non-combat roles), plus we need our men and women at home in case Burenia threatens another attack. HORTON11 : •  21:36, May 17, 2014 (UTC)

Chvarqvia has been making bombs since November in order to bomb "annoying" wikinations. Those bombs are however not nuclear. And yes, Burenia is planning to invade Lovia and replace English by Burenian as standarddijålekt :P --QytokantFRÅGOR??? 21:40, May 17, 2014 (UTC)

Will timemasterdijålekt be illegal? :( —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 03:02, May 18, 2014 (UTC)

I might allow it in a takavíhki łátoskì like Kings, as long as you can accept that Uxykascardijålekt will be the standard there :P --QytokantFRÅGOR??? 07:07, May 18, 2014 (UTC)

Traspes will assist Lovia, but the military is not very big. Traspes (talk)

Are you sure you can't assist Burenia? In return Spanish can be the standarddijålekt in Sylvania :P --QytokantFRÅGOR??? 05:34, May 19, 2014 (UTC)

So, are you actually going to do something, or is it all talk? In character I will vehemently oppose all actions against Lovia, but OOC it would be a good activity boost (maybe even a wikinational WWIII). HORTON11 : •  17:04, May 19, 2014 (UTC)

I think it'd be best to first talk and decide what's going to be done and then actually do it. So what I propose is this: What's going to happen after the war's begun will be discussed later. Any comments on this? :P --QytokantFRÅGOR??? 19:00, May 19, 2014 (UTC)
 * Burenia, which in the past already has threatened to do so, will now actually invade Lovia.
 * Chvarqvia and Tagog (and Mäöres?) will assist Burenia.
 * What's going to happen with Lámis Varzas? Will Lovia be bombed or will Chvarqvia somehow be prevented from doing so?
 * Some other nations (Brunant, Traspes) will assist Lovia.
 * War.
 * Good luck, keep out of Sylvania and do realistic time-scales. Hoffmann LogoCNP2wt.png Kunarian TALK 22:21, May 19, 2014 (UTC)

That sounds like a decent plan. If Mäöres does join those fighting Lovia then I'll go forward with trying to eject them from the IWO. Brunant and Traspes would likely assist Lovia, and in the past Strasland, Pintona, Prasia and Libertas have shown interest in backing Lovia and other IWO democracies. Cettatie is also likely to back Lovia. HORTON11 : •  19:30, May 19, 2014 (UTC)
 * As I say, keep out of Sylvania. But go wild, I'll happily take part. Hoffmann LogoCNP2wt.png Kunarian TALK 22:21, May 19, 2014 (UTC)
 * If the invaders arrive in Lovia they can invade anywhere that they want to. You can only prepare and fight them when they come. Traspes (talk) 01:17, May 20, 2014 (UTC)
 * Sylvania is obviously also included in the Burenian plan. So Burenia won't stay out of Sylvania. --QytokantFRÅGOR??? 05:41, May 20, 2014 (UTC)
 * Mm.. I don't see why Mäöres should assist Burenia. After all, their relation with Lovia is way older and on top of that, a lot of Lovians (Oceana) live in Mäöres, and a lot of Mäöresers live in Lovia. --O u WTB 12:41, May 20, 2014 (UTC)
 * I had a reason to have a question mark there :P So will it be a voina möt Måras? :'( --QytokantFRÅGOR??? 13:21, May 20, 2014 (UTC)
 * No, we will keep our neutrality :P --O u WTB 17:59, May 20, 2014 (UTC)
 * Well that's good to here, though you should be wary of potential Burenian threats against you for not backing the Axis of Evil. HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 18:16, May 20, 2014 (UTC)
 * Ǻs, what do you think of an alliance between Måras and Inselöarna to keep their neutrality? :P --QytokantFRÅGOR??? 19:14, May 20, 2014 (UTC)
 * Traspes wants to be neutral but also we want to help a country that is invaded to be secure. Traspes (talk) 01:03, May 21, 2014 (UTC)
 * Hahaha, sure :P And if any of our countries get attacked, we'll join the conflict :o --O u WTB 03:08, May 21, 2014 (UTC)
 * Good :P --QytokantFRÅGOR??? 05:45, May 21, 2014 (UTC)

When is the invasion beginning? —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 21:59, May 21, 2014 (UTC)

In invasions you don't know when it is going to begin, because the invader is not going to say that tomorrow at 3:00 we will attack, it's a surprise. Traspes (talk) 00:39, May 22, 2014 (UTC)


 * I'm aware of that, but this is out of character. It doesn't matter if we know here. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 11:01, May 22, 2014 (UTC)

I might start it after I get home from school :P --QytokantFRÅGOR??? 05:39, May 22, 2014 (UTC)

From the Cape Times: The Royal Navy has sent the Patrol boat R.S. Middleton to Lovia at the request of the Lovian Minister of Defense, Lukas Hoffmann, in order to provide assistance to Lovia and to act as a deterrence to any potential attack. While the ship is well-armed and flies a helicopter, it is also equipped with a sizable sick bay to care after any injured Lovians. Navy officials have stressed they will not lead or be involved in heavy combat, though they will respond accordingly if attacked by any invasion force.

HORTON11 : •  14:12, May 22, 2014 (UTC)

Aronsson Financial Group
With the acquisition of the National Bank of Lovia, the local community bank of Bennett Banking & Co. has chosen to take on a new logo and name for the company.

Aronsson Financial Group will become a publicly owned company and will manage the assists of the now defunct NBL, which at the time owned a majorities of Lovia's hedge, retirement and stock holdings. Aronsson will actively begin massive loaning services to the causes of the Sylvanian state government, in this with talk of a war; the loaning power of Aronsson will also be provided to the production of war material.

Aronsson seeks to also remove Brunant influence on the financial system of Lovia, which after the incident of Truth Island the trust between the two nations has deteriorated.

---Sunkist- (talk) 04:51, May 20, 2014 (UTC)

To all Lovians
We may be in a state of war, but we must take a moment to remember those who lost their lives and who have been injured over the course of this invasion. 39 people today were killed in Dubnitz for being Oceana and countless others in Hurbanova and Clymene have lost their lives in defense of democracy, liberty and the right to be Lovian. To those we should hold a moment of silence to forever remember them.

And in regards to the invaders, we will employ all means necessary in order to repel this invasion and restore the unity and integrity of Lovia. A number of allied nations have pledged their support and we will not rest until every inch of this great nation has been liberated.

J. Abrahams, Prime Minister. HORTON11 : •  18:59, May 27, 2014 (UTC)

Lovian National Army
Its time to end the local rule of authorities, its time we come together as a nation to end this conflict. Kings and Seven will be the mains stages for the force, refuse the authority of LNA, you deny the legitimacy of the current government. Several authorities in Kings and Seven have been arrested for doing as such. Understand the ramifications of this establishment, the current Prime Minister has instructed the development of a temporary military; for the duration of the war. The federal effort among you politicians is pathetic; you can bicker all you want when its peacetime but when war knocks on your door- you listen and fall in line. All authority among police officers is still in the hands of those respected leaders, but cooperation is futile and necessary in order to win this war. ---Sunkist- (talk) 01:15, May 28, 2014 (UTC)

This does not justify the violation of human rights or the Constitution. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 16:11, June 1, 2014 (UTC)

Wikinations across the world
I noticed that the continent of Asia seems under-represented in the "IWOverse" of wikinations. While Mäöres and Chvarqvia are located in Asia, their cultures aren't very Asian at all, and neither are those of Burenia's provinces. And the other wikinations in Asia can't really be counted either: Perpona has just 4 pages and is inactive, Ceol is rather badly made and is also inactive, and the Imaginary Lands of Nicholas are too populous to be part of the IWOverse.

Africa is also somewhat underrepresented, as Tagog and Nge'ardhi are the only wikinations located there. 77topaz (talk) 05:50, June 1, 2014 (UTC)
 * What you wanna do about it? :P --O u WTB 09:49, June 1, 2014 (UTC)
 * Well, I've already done one thing about it. :P 77topaz (talk) 10:41, June 1, 2014 (UTC)
 * You have? :o --O u WTB 11:31, June 1, 2014 (UTC)
 * Yes. :P Not much yet, but certainly a start. 77topaz (talk) 11:33, June 1, 2014 (UTC)
 * Will they support Burenia? :P --QytokantFRÅGOR??? 13:03, June 1, 2014 (UTC)
 * I don't know yet. :P 77topaz (talk) 05:57, June 2, 2014 (UTC)

Prÿñem Lyksemburgù - ságñìm bàka frÿdiñaz
I'm going to Luxembourg tomorrow, so I'll be away for a couple of days. Expect me back on Friday. --QytokantFRÅGOR??? 17:34, June 9, 2014 (UTC)

K, you might see my uncle there, keep an eye out for an old Citroen Ami. HORTON11 : •  18:42, June 9, 2014 (UTC)

Haha, no, I didn't see him :P --QytokantFRÅGOR??? 16:39, June 13, 2014 (UTC)

Introductions
Hello everybody! I am Reximus55, a user from Althistory Wikia. I was going to make my own Constructed Nation with other people from over there (so far, its Demokracy Wikia) but I have since kind of abandoned the idea and am gonna join the community over here.

Here is my character page (of course, it is heavily WIP): Dirk Brandt.

Dirk is a German-Lovian from northern Kings (Beaverwick, to be specific). I noticed that someone else has a Brandt in one of their pages, so I incorporated him into my storyline as my guy's father. The Brandt on the other page was a CEO, so Dirk was raised in an upper-middle class family, and was sent to an Ivy League University to study economics.

By the time he got back, the major gasoline company (Veprom) had become an all-electric company (Ecompany). Lovia still had a large gasoline infrastructure from Veprom, which would've had to be sold off on the public market.

I figure Dirk could take over the reigns of the company as CEO/President. During the 5 years in the interim (from 2009), he went to BBU and got a Ph.D. in Macroeconomic Policy.

At the present, Brandt is looking for a possible political appointment into an economic field. I was thinking of taking charge of the Central Bank, which has been under-developed and is repeatedly lampooned as an inefficient government operation. I would love to make the Lovian Dollar ($) an powerful currency that will become a stepping-stone for other major finance corporations to develop. Please not that I need the appointment though. 03:32, June 15, 2014 (UTC)
 * First: Welcome to Lovia! Second: I like the story line you created, good luck and have fun elaborating on it! :) --O u WTB 08:56, June 15, 2014 (UTC)

Welcome to Lovia! Glad to have you here. I also like the story line, though I thought Ecompany had a gas subsidiary. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 15:34, June 15, 2014 (UTC)


 * It has a gas station subsidiary, Swift Oil. It does not have any oil drilling practices but is what the name implies, a gas station company which has contracts with gas suppliers. Therefore, the stuff had to have been sold off. 19:50, June 15, 2014 (UTC)

Hi... Local Mafia Boss, also from Althistory Wiki. We are using Demokracy, but I am also on here a little. So... IDK. Local Mafia Boss (Talk) (Blog)
 * Welcome! Or, as the Burenians say, Vyqir! :) --QytokantFRÅGOR??? 05:33, June 16, 2014 (UTC)
 * By the use of your templates your a confederate, anarcho-capitalist? Thats cool, I'm a octopus banana. Marcus/Michael Villanova 22:09, June 17, 2014 (UTC)
 * Or, you can take it like anyone else would... I am Pomeranian by blood, Confederate by heritage, and anarcho-capitalist by ideology. ~Rex.

If you were to be perfectly honest with me, how active is this community? Seems a bit slow around here... 07:05, June 20, 2014 (UTC)
 * It is an up- and down movement. Sometimes we've got tens of users, sometimes just a few survivors :P --O u WTB 07:52, June 20, 2014 (UTC)

Here is a kinda brief question which is asking for a really long response... So, I'd like to take the reigns of Lovia's Central Bank as Dirk Brandt. He has a Ph.D. and is Ivy League educated. Furthermore, he has experience running LovOilCo, the successor the Veprom's gas drilling enterprises. He hails from a powerful and wealthy family, and is quite intelligent (did I mention he has a doctorate?)

What is the state of Lovia's economy? I understand the nation is under invasion, but a lot of the pages seem to be out of date or contradictory. How does the Central Banking process work in Lovia? What power does the head of the Central Bank have in terms of coinage and stuff like that. Thanks, 11:10, June 20, 2014 (UTC)

RIght now the Bank of Lovia exists in name only, as there isn't any legislation passed on a central bank. But, that's something I'd like to see happen. As for coinage, I'm the one in charge of currency design and issuing. HORTON11 : •  13:03, June 20, 2014 (UTC)

2 Things. 17:59, June 20, 2014 (UTC)
 * 1) You marked me as a MOTC on the Citizen page. Seeing as I was not elected, is this intentional becuase of the lack of Congresspeople?
 * 2) If you do not have a Central Bank (or you do, but it was never developed), how does your currency work? I have seen some things stating that the currency is pegged to 0.90 USD, but I have seen more recent things saying it is not pegged to the dollar.

The L$ was initially pegged to the USD but now floats freely. The Bank of Lovia does not exist as an independent institution but is something we do need to establish. I can only assume IC that monetary policy will be determined by the Ministry of Finance. HORTON11 : •  19:23, June 20, 2014 (UTC)

About the MOTC thing on the citizen page: that is hopelessly outdated, so I did not really pay attention to it. I'll remove them now. --O u WTB 09:09, June 21, 2014 (UTC)

So... is there any way that I can become a MOTC without waiting an extremely long amount of time? I personally think we ought to forego the Constitution for a brief bit of time so that we can get some activity going on this wiki. All new users get to be MOTCs until we have a solid, active base to rebuild from. The last legislative issue was a long time ago and had one vote on it.

The past two issues were not even real changes, also. By allowing people to be politicians without waiting an extremely long amount of time, we can have more activity. I know this sounds radical, but we can all see that this wiki appears dead. 04:05, June 22, 2014 (UTC)

To be honest, I agree (that is partially, I tend to disagree on the "all new/active users" bit). I'll make a vote on new (earlier) mid-term elections. --O u WTB 08:55, June 22, 2014 (UTC)

It doesn't matter so much how long you have to wait as much as whether your vote will count or not. But we'll all have to remember to just vote for the actives. We can't have 50% of Congress disappearing on us again. Hoffmann Kunarian TALK 09:15, June 24, 2014 (UTC)

Mid-term elections
As Reximus pointed out, we're drastically in need of a more active congress. Therefore, I propose to do something contra-legislative, which requires agreement within our community. We should fire our current congress and hold new elections (starting 8 or 15 July). The elections will not be usual elections, but instead they will be on a "subscribe-and-you're-in" base. I give you guys time to vote, starting now, ending Saturday 31st. --O u WTB 09:00, June 22, 2014 (UTC)


 * Pro
 * 1) --O u WTB 09:00, June 22, 2014 (UTC)
 * 2) Wabba The I (talk) 11:57, June 22, 2014 (UTC)
 * 3) User:Frijoles333 Frijoles333 TALK 12:05, June 22, 2014 (UTC)
 * 4)  HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 14:44, June 22, 2014 (UTC)
 * 5) --QytokantFRÅGOR??? 18:07, June 22, 2014 (UTC)
 * 6)  20:04, June 22, 2014 (UTC)
 * 7) Traspes (talk) 01:34, June 23, 2014 (UTC)
 * 8) Hoffmann LogoCNP2wt.png Kunarian TALK 09:13, June 24, 2014 (UTC)
 * 9)  Happy65   Talk CNP LogoCNP.png 17:45, June 24, 2014 (UTC)
 * 10) —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 20:02, June 30, 2014 (UTC)
 * 11) 77topaz (talk) 06:08, July 1, 2014 (UTC)


 * Contra


 * Neutral/abstain

THIS PROPOSAL IS PASSED.

Discussion
Ending on Saturday the 31st? Of May or something? I think it it'd be better to end this pitipàna on Monday the 30th instead :P --QytokantFRÅGOR??? 18:07, June 22, 2014 (UTC)

I am very glad that we are doing this, but I will not be in town for the next couple of weeks (2 to be exact). That means I probably will be unable to vote or really campaign but I would REALLY like to be part of this new government.

I would like to run as an independent, if at all possible, but I will probably caucus with PL or the CNP. How can we work this out? (I am literally leaving in about 18 hours) 20:04, June 22, 2014 (UTC)

I also want to be in the elections. Traspes (talk)

@4kant: Yeah, that'd be a better idea :P @Reximus: Well, there won't be any votes. All you gotta do is just add yourself to the list. If you are unable to do that during that week, just let me know and I'll add you. It is possible to run independently. --O u WTB 08:49, June 23, 2014 (UTC)

I can do most days btw. Also Rex the CNP will happily welcome you. Especially if you want to help build Lovia culturally and economically and not have a million civil wars to falsely "increase activity". Hoffmann Kunarian TALK 09:13, June 24, 2014 (UTC)

Didn't scroll up enough to see this above the below topics in the past few days... —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 20:02, June 30, 2014 (UTC)

^The same happened for me. Also, the ongoing war may make attempts to run Congress quite difficult. :P 77topaz (talk) 06:08, July 1, 2014 (UTC)

As long as it don't interrupt with my census, I'm okay with it :P --O u WTB 07:20, July 1, 2014 (UTC)

People getting killed in Oceana might interrupt your census. :P 77topaz (talk) 04:54, July 3, 2014 (UTC)

I think the Burenians are probably away now. :P --O u WTB 10:21, July 3, 2014 (UTC)

They're still there though :P --QytokantFRÅGOR??? 13:21, July 3, 2014 (UTC)

Perhaps the Oceana separatists have switched sides :o --O u WTB 14:19, July 3, 2014 (UTC)

I'm sure a number of the population including a certain little movement might not be too pleased at foreigh occupation in their homeland, perhaps displeased enough to do something about it. HORTON11 : •  17:57, July 3, 2014 (UTC)

Mapping the wikinations
Perhaps we should map out the wikinations in our "wikiverse", Traspes told me he and Reximus were discussing that and I started a basic map of European wikinations. Perhaps those "special" or largely unused/unconnected wikinations hsouldn't be a part, but those which are active and have longstanding links to other wikinations should be mapped. HORTON11 : •  15:02, June 22, 2014 (UTC)

For missing nations like Libertas, Insel and Adlibita, I wasn't sure on their location so add them if you like and re-add the map. HORTON11 : •  15:05, June 22, 2014 (UTC)

Here is Libertas. Sorry for Kemburg missing the first letters. Wabba The I (talk) 16:53, June 22, 2014 (UTC)

I added Vikoyer, which is currently in development but I wouldn't mind it being on the overall map since it will soon be an active part of the wikination community. 20:16, June 22, 2014 (UTC)

Wabba, I believe Libertas lies closer to the Azores. --O u WTB 08:50, June 23, 2014 (UTC)

@ Azores- Wabba moved Libertas I believe

@Vikoyer- Maybe you should develop it more before joining out "wikiverse" (and doesn't the surface area seem a little big?) HORTON11 :  •  14:47, June 23, 2014 (UTC)

If you're going to be extending this map out of Europe, then I've got a map showing Prasia within South America if you're interested Frijoles333 TALK 16:08, June 23, 2014 (UTC)

Sure, well perhaps a map of the Americas might work better, in order to include Lovia and Pintona. HORTON11 : •  16:27, June 23, 2014 (UTC)

Burenia is also located in America. Chvarqvia and Mäöres lie in the Indian Ocean. Anyway, the Europe map misses Inselöarna, which lies near the Orkneys. --O u WTB 08:16, June 24, 2014 (UTC)

FIFA World Cup 2014
On Wikistad, you can find Libertas' failed campaign to qualify for the 2014 FIFA World Cup but, however, please put here your home country if it is playing on the 2014 FIFA World Cup. I'm so glad Belgium has won two times (having six points), however, it was Belgium's bench to win both games. Lukaku was not very good but the subsitutes were it. Wabba The I (talk) 21:05, June 22, 2014 (UTC)


 * Belgium: Wabba The I (talk) 21:05, June 22, 2014 (UTC)
 * Spain, but it is terrible!
 * Belgium, we played terribly in both games, first time it was Fellaini's hair, Mertens and now Origi who saved us, all subs. And USA, we should have won !?!?!?!?!?! HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 13:11, June 23, 2014 (UTC)

Lovia = failed state?
It seems like Lovia is a new Iraq. There's a government that doesn't do anything (hasn't even been voted in through congress) and foreign armies rampage constantly over its territory. :P --Semyon 12:30, June 23, 2014 (UTC)
 * We're just having a rough time :P --O u WTB 14:09, June 23, 2014 (UTC)
 * Time for Oceana to become our Kirkuk, I say. Let's get Kurdish in here! King Sebastian I of Lovia (talk) 07:16, June 24, 2014 (UTC)
 * Oceana is not Kirkuk, Oceana is more like the Shia bit, pretending to be independent but really controlled by another government (Iran/America). Hoffmann LogoCNP2wt.png Kunarian TALK 09:11, June 24, 2014 (UTC)

Lovia is not a failed state yet, but I agree with you. The reason why this is happening is because people don't want to make the voting system more logical in congress and so they think that a bit of killing will spruce up the nation. A simple reform of congress would sort most issues. Hoffmann Kunarian TALK 09:11, June 24, 2014 (UTC)

Lovia's definitely not a failed state. Unless we have very poor government and no law, then we haven't failed. Adams990 (talk) 22:26, June 24, 2014 (UTC)

I have gotten back from an extended hiatus, and what the heck has happened in Lovia?
First thing that shocks me is that Adoha or Truth Island is now an overseas Brunant territory. Last time I've been here was that the island was under Lovian control. Another thing that shocks me is that Clymene is under some trouble right now, I think?

Can anyone break down what happened when I was gone, with all the sudden territorial changes and stuff like that? Thanks. Adams990 (talk) 08:39, June 24, 2014 (UTC)

Adoha is not, thanks to a protest against the shady deal that the Lovian government was trying to do it was stopped. Clymene has a load of socailists rebelling and shooting people, we were putting them down. But then Burenia invaded and the Oceana separatists sided with them, so now we're at a standoff. Plains will be ours soon as the defenders are running out of supplies however Oceana is less certain. Most of the northeast is occupied by my Sylvanian Militia, but I'll be dammned if I'm going to push any deeper for the sake of a bunch of separatists (who have attacked my men) who want to live under a government that will try to eradicate Oceana as a language and culture. They can eat their cake and have it too. Hoffmann Kunarian TALK 09:09, June 24, 2014 (UTC)

I hope that after this crisis (whenever that happens), that the government of Lovia seriously reviews and changes their military organization. We should have a proper Army, Navy, Air Force and Marines, and maybe some "SWAT-like" teams just in case. That would be one of the things I would do if I was in Congress, but personally I don't know which party I would take and how people will view me as. Also, I really don't like running to the US and saying that they need to help us, just like in the Civil War. Adams990 (talk) 09:51, June 24, 2014 (UTC)

I agree with you on the US side. We should be able to deal with our own problems. Also on the military, as Minister for Defence, I've semi-introduced a form of that by ensuring that during times of severe conflict police can be equipped to a military level. But we don't need such a temporary solution, we need a permanent one. We can't afford a large standing force but a small elite core force alongside an army of reservists would do well for us. Most importantly, because we are a nation of islands, we should have a military based to strike from the sea. A small core naval strike force alongside a large land reservist force should be our basis for a Lovian military. Hoffmann Kunarian TALK 10:59, June 24, 2014 (UTC)

Well, I do have a good proposal about the small navy fleet of ships after this crisis ends. I would propose that when the Navy is formed, that we ask France to export a few La Fayette-class of frigate ships. I think this is a good idea since the class of frigates I have mentioned above are also used by the Saudi navy, Singapore navy and the Taiwan navy. What do you think about that, Lukas? Adams990 (talk) 19:22, June 24, 2014 (UTC)
 * The discussion on how we go forwards should happen very soon after we shut down this conflict and elect a new, active government. Hoffmann LogoCNP2wt.png Kunarian TALK 12:47, June 29, 2014 (UTC)

We have in the Traspesian navy a La Fayette boat, but only one. Traspes (talk) 01:59, June 25, 2014 (UTC)

Signing up for Congress
Signing up for Congress is possible now. If you want to be actively involved in our national politics, sign up at Forum:Federal elections. --O u WTB 14:17, July 1, 2014 (UTC)

Yes, yes I am running. 10:32, July 4, 2014 (UTC)

Ok, so I have noticed a distinct lack of willingness to actually RUN for office. We have people signed up for seats and that is all fine and dandy, but I feel that we need more discussion, more debate.

Make the people vote for you! Come on folks! We all know we are getting seats, and therefore our levels of competitiveness are down to a minimum. I am going to be out of town for the rest of the election cycle, but I'd like some debate.

I will challenge any self-proclaimed leftist to a debate in the Board. I hope others will take up my challenge, or issue a challenge of their own. Heck, if Oos wanted to debate me on the merits of being a Christian Democracy or not, I'd accept.

See you in the Board. 10:59, July 10, 2014 (UTC)

Anyhow, the first debates have been held. Check them out here, and do your own! Here is how we worked it out: It worked quite nicely. Please get some life back into this thing! 13:23, July 10, 2014 (UTC)
 * Person 1 asks a question
 * Person 2 answers
 * Person 1 answers
 * Person 2 asks a question
 * Person 1 answers
 * Person 2 answers
 * etc...

New Character
Many users have switched affiliations and characters from time to time. I guess its time for me to do the same. While I can't promise as much activity or working on my beloved Clymene (seeing as, I must admit, the state Congress plan didn't work out as planned. More people were committed to one state to another.).

I've decided to stay more recluse in being a small back bench left-wing activist in Lovia. You will see my new pages around the wiki... Marcus/Michael Villanova 20:33, July 12, 2014 (UTC)
 * Alright, good luck on your new character! :) --O u WTB 11:32, July 13, 2014 (UTC)

Win a Car with Maxi!


Visit any Maxi store in Lovia in the month of July and you'll have the chance to win one of two Maxi cars. With every purchase over L$20 made you will receive a ballot towards the draw, which will take place on 1 August. Two lucky winners will receive a 2015 Atenis City or 2015 Atenis Palma, courtesy of Atenis, who will have their cars on sale in Lovia this year.

(OOC) I'll name some random person from anytown Lovia as a winner but if any of you guys are interested we could do a mini-contest between users to give the other one away. HORTON11 : •  20:01, July 15, 2014 (UTC)

BTW here's a car ad I created. HORTON11 : •  16:59, July 31, 2014 (UTC)

Not a native
Hi!

Today I found this page via search-function of wikia.com. I don't speak English very good, I am a Austrian. Does a german wikination exist? If not, do you also accept citizens, which aren't speaking English as a native and which make many mistakes? BVBFan (talk) 20:16, July 19, 2014 (UTC)

Another question: Where can I buy an appartement? BVBFan (talk) 20:41, July 19, 2014 (UTC)

There is no active German wikination, but of course we accept non-English natives. For an apartment you just put your name where where it says for sale on a map. HORTON11 : •  21:53, July 19, 2014 (UTC)

Thanks! BVBFan (talk) 07:26, July 20, 2014 (UTC)

Craziest politicians
What do you guys think are the craziest wikination politicians. Not counting a pig, we've had my character cheating, a neo-Nazi pinup girl and now a communist ex-porn star. Any others you guys can think of? HORTON11 : •  16:42, July 25, 2014 (UTC)
 * Well, for Oceana we got John Paul Hrádske maybe :P --O u WTB 19:52, July 25, 2014 (UTC)
 * He is pretty funny, going from diplomatic postings abroad to judge, goat herder, unemployed and now librarian and Civil War reenactor. Though I think commie porn star might be a little crazier, though she has yet to uccupy such high posts as John Paul. HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 18:51, July 29, 2014 (UTC)
 * Somehow I feel pornography and the extreme left are kind of combinable under the "celebrate your body" thing :P --O u WTB 10:03, July 30, 2014 (UTC)
 * I wouldn't know about that, but even our far-rightists have (or had) an equally similar politician. HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 13:27, July 30, 2014 (UTC)
 * Hahah, true, but that's maybe just for the male vote or something :P --O u WTB 15:35, July 30, 2014 (UTC)
 * Yes, probably. Apart from a few corrupt officials I wouldn't know of any other crazier politicians. HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 15:50, July 30, 2014 (UTC)
 * Well, we've also got a hard-core Christian politician who married several times: Oos Wes Ilava :P --O u WTB 08:51, July 31, 2014 (UTC)
 * There are many (hard-core Christians) who would see a like-minded politician as pretty normal, and multiple marriages is not uncommon nor scandalous, unless they're at the same time. HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 13:42, July 31, 2014 (UTC)
 * Well, in hard-core Christian cultures divorce itself is rather scandalous. Also, Oos is rather hyprocritical in the fact that he preaches family values and stuff, while he himself is hardly a family man :P --O u WTB 09:20, August 1, 2014 (UTC)