Forum:The Pub

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nl:Forum:De kroegli:Forum:De Kaffeero:RoWikicity:Cafeneasv:Forum:Krogen Welcome to The Pub! This is the general meeting place in Lovia. Inhabitants can make public announcements, have a friendly chat with some copatriots, or discuss crucial issues in Lovian politics or business. Speeches can also be made at Speakers' Corner. All archives of The Pub can be found here.

Census
Alright. The censuses have been done:
 * Kings Demographic Center
 * Oceana Demographic Center
 * Seven Demographic Center
 * Sylvania Census Center
 * User:Horton11/Clymene (still awaiting wikification)

Assuming these census are accepted, Lovia has 176,659 inhabitants :) --O u WTBsjrief-mich 13:43, June 15, 2012 (UTC)
 * What's happening, our birthrates are up again? I'm trying as hard as I can. The glorious First Consul of Rome 16:36, June 15, 2012 (UTC)
 * Haha, looks like the Donia clan isn't as large as it used to be, relatively seen :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 13:08, June 16, 2012 (UTC)

I don't think that the other censuses are considered valid anymore, so there's not really a higher birth rate. We should make some older census data as well. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 13:33, June 16, 2012 (UTC)
 * Yes I agree. But, we must do that very carefully, considering Lovia's young age and turbulent past (famines of the 50's etc..) --O u WTBsjrief-mich 13:47, June 16, 2012 (UTC)
 * Whenever we have to many people we just throw in another femine. :) The glorious First Consul of Rome 20:09, July 1, 2012 (UTC)
 * Hahah :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 13:58, July 2, 2012 (UTC)

Swedish speakers
Are there any people who can speak Swedish here? 4kant,6 16:22, June 17, 2012 (UTC)
 * Jag kan tala liten svenska.. :P Varför behöver du svensktalande användare? --O u WTBsjrief-mich 16:35, June 17, 2012 (UTC)
 * Jag har startat en ny Svenskspråkig wiki. 4kant,6 16:38, June 17, 2012 (UTC)
 * Okej, jag ska titta på detta :) --O u WTBsjrief-mich 17:28, June 17, 2012 (UTC)
 * Sadly I speak even less Swedish than Limburgish (read: none) so I won't be able to help. Still, good luck! Do some editing here too. :P --Semyon 17:40, June 17, 2012 (UTC)
 * Hahah, Swedish is way easier than Limburgish, you'll learn the basics within a week :P And if you want to learn both languages at the same time, I'd recommend this cat :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 17:49, June 17, 2012 (UTC)
 * Well, Scandinavian languages are interesting, but the percentage of people who speak English there is rather high, so the motivation to learn isn't that large. Also, I have no plans to go there (another reason I don't learn Swedish :P). --Semyon 18:06, June 17, 2012 (UTC)
 * That's all? :P Semyon, you should definitely "broaden your horizon" and not be the stereotypical English speaker who only speaks one or two languages :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 18:11, June 17, 2012 (UTC)
 * You can make an article about the coutry of the wiki when it's got a name (the wiki will be something like this wiki, but the country hasn't got a name yet). 4kant,6 19:25, June 17, 2012 (UTC)
 * @Oos: Yes, I actually agree with that, but - I'm still not going to learn Swedish. :P I have absolutely no reason to learn it: I don't know any Swedish people, have no plans to go to Sweden, there are no Swedish books I particularly want to read. Yes, I'm mildly interested in it, and no, I don't want to be 'the stereotypical English speaker who only speaks one or two languages' but I'd rather concentrate on improving my Russian and German. --Semyon 20:23, June 17, 2012 (UTC)
 * @4kant,6: we'll surely do that :)
 * @Semyon: Still, Russian, German, and English isn't a very long list but for a Britisher it's quite good :P Never been interested in stuff like Welsh? That's probably fairly close to where you live :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 09:56, June 18, 2012 (UTC)

The first Limburgish contribution to Lovian English?
Haha. --Semyon 16:30, June 18, 2012 (UTC)
 * Hahahahah, I can't remember he actually said that :P I find it remarkable that TM starts using Limburgish influences in LE :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 17:29, June 18, 2012 (UTC)
 * I believe it was when Marcus proposed something, not too sure though. Btw Oos, did you see my message on the FK Die Ruuej page? HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 17:41, June 18, 2012 (UTC)
 * No, it's right here, above the last comment :) Yes, but I'm not responsible for the football part in Mäöres. I'll drop a message at the user's talk page and if he doesn't respond I'll let you know whether it's okay :) --O u WTBsjrief-mich 17:46, June 18, 2012 (UTC)

I think I've only used è twice or thrice. I learned it's use from you (OWTB), it seems to mean something like "after all". I laughed for ten minutes when I saw this. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 03:01, June 19, 2012 (UTC)
 * I know my influence crosses borders In Limburgish it can mean everything and nothing :P We did the same too I think :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 08:29, June 19, 2012 (UTC)

Limburgish's first step to world domination è. :P --Semyon 09:03, June 19, 2012 (UTC)
 * Indeed, English is so 2011 :P Time for a new world language I'd say :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 09:12, June 19, 2012 (UTC)
 * It's time to change from Lovian English to Lovian Limburgish :) 4kant,6 10:38, June 19, 2012 (UTC)
 * Hahaha, then most of the users here will have to study hard to understand the national language :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 10:44, June 19, 2012 (UTC)
 * It was just a joke :) 4kant,6 14:17, June 19, 2012 (UTC)
 * I know, but it was a fun joke though è :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 14:18, June 19, 2012 (UTC)

Actually this isn't the first use of è by a non-Limburgish speaker - here's a earlier one. We may have to change the footnote on the LE page. :P --Semyon 19:59, June 21, 2012 (UTC)
 * Bucu doesn't count :P And he uses the wrong accent è :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 07:11, June 22, 2012 (UTC)

IWO
Alright, if anyone drops by, could they have a look at Forum:Supranational Wiki Organization and express their views? We haven't had a great response thus far, particularly the Declaration section which is arguably the most important. Thanks in advance! :) --Semyon 20:02, June 21, 2012 (UTC)

Notice of Absence
Hi, I'm going to be gone until late Sunday, so see you guys then. I'm going on a trip and won't have a computer with me. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 15:01, June 22, 2012 (UTC)
 * Have fun! :) --Semyon 15:06, June 22, 2012 (UTC)
 * ARGH! foiled again! never do I get the first reply! actually I might have anyways have fun Time it'll be good to see what interesting things might have unfolded when you get back now that quite a lot of people are free from examinations but we await your return anxiously! :D Kunarian 15:11, June 22, 2012 (UTC)
 * Have fun è :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 18:24, June 22, 2012 (UTC)
 * I'm back. I had a great time. It was a wedding è. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 21:50, June 24, 2012 (UTC)
 * Oooh, weddings are always fun :P Did the ruin the wedding hall afterwards? :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 15:05, June 25, 2012 (UTC)
 * I'm sorry, but I can't make sense of the above at all. :P Perhaps 'did they ruin the wedding hall afterwards?' (typo?) but I still don't understand... :P --Semyon 19:23, June 30, 2012 (UTC)
 * Yes typo :P Well, on a wedding, people get drunk and it's always fun to see drunk guys break down the wedding hall :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 15:09, July 1, 2012 (UTC)
 * No, the wedding hall was not ruined. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 19:01, July 2, 2012 (UTC)
 * Deh, a boring standard wedding è :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 11:50, July 3, 2012 (UTC)

Notice of Absence (2)
Telling people when you'll be inactive seems to be quite fashionable these days, so I think I'll try and be cool too. :P I'm going away for a week and don't think there'll be internet access. But I shall return on Friday! --Semyon 06:42, July 1, 2012 (UTC)
 * Okay, have fun to wherever you're going. We shall await your return impatiently :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 15:10, July 1, 2012 (UTC)
 * I don't really have a habit of informing people when I'm gone, but since I'm rarely around, it sorta speaks for itself. The glorious First Consul of Rome 20:08, July 1, 2012 (UTC)
 * Hey, I'm back. :) --Semyon 15:16, July 7, 2012 (UTC)
 * In that case, welcome back! :P You didn't miss a thing :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 17:09, July 7, 2012 (UTC)

Read away
New Article in Lovia's Newspaper Nova Times Marcus/Michael Villanova 01:47, July 11, 2012 (UTC)
 * Actually, I find the entire system of the UK vague... It's almost as bad as Mäöres :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 05:10, July 11, 2012 (UTC)

List of Churches
As far as I know, we don't have a list of Churches yet, apart from this. Shall I create a page based on Lies ven kèrker? --O u WTBsjrief-mich 13:18, July 12, 2012 (UTC)


 * Yes, that would be great. Could you help me wout with the came for Brunant? There's a Church category, but not enough churches for many towns. HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 14:34, July 12, 2012 (UTC)
 * What do you mean? Do you want more than one church per town (at least in some towns)? --O u WTBsjrief-mich 17:24, July 12, 2012 (UTC)
 * Koningstad has three and Grijzestad 2, but I would liek to ensure sizeable towns have a church, since many have not been assigned one. Plus, I like how you organized the lable in your Lies. HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 17:37, July 12, 2012 (UTC)
 * Is there a lot of diversity in Brunant (f.e. Catholic, Protestant, Muslim, etc.)? --O u WTBsjrief-mich 17:40, July 12, 2012 (UTC)
 * The vast majority of Christians are Catholic, either immigrants from the Low Countries/Germany prior to the reformation as well as Spanish and Venetians (which now form the Barzuna people). Most immigrants from the British Isles were Scottish and Irish catholics that left around the time of the Act of Union (Borderers) and other Englishmen who left after the conversion to protestantism and made their way to Brunant through other countries. There is a small minority of protestant English who came after 1784, and an even smaller minority of Dutch protestants; all of these are concentrated in Cape Cross parish. The rest of the parishes are majority-Catholic. As for Muslims, there are almost no descendants of the 9th-12th century Arab inhabitants but most would have arrived following WWII and the upheavals in the MENA region in the 1950s and 1960s. These are a minority as well, mostly concentrated in Koningstad and Carrington. As for other religions there isn't much, and the minority of Jews largely left in the WWII and postwar era. HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 17:48, July 12, 2012 (UTC)
 * Alright, that makes the situation quite simple then :) I presume that there are no separate Venetian Catholic Churches or Irish Catholic Churches anymore? --O u WTBsjrief-mich 17:56, July 12, 2012 (UTC)
 * The Venetians are long gone or were killed after Brunant's independence. The Catholic Churches follow the guidance and leadership of His Holiness the Pontiff. HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 18:13, July 12, 2012 (UTC)
 * Alright, that's good :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 18:20, July 12, 2012 (UTC)
 * Indeed... glad to hear that. Let's create a list by all means. --Semyon 18:22, July 12, 2012 (UTC)
 * For Lovia it won't be too difficult I think. Though we might consider setting up some "extra" churches :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 18:33, July 12, 2012 (UTC)

Restoring royal family to Dimi version
I suggest we restore the royal family to the dimi version.The current version is messed-up Pierlot McCrooke 16:50, July 12, 2012 (UTC)
 * I think it's fine now. Back when he made it, it was ubrelistically small. HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 17:01, July 12, 2012 (UTC)
 * True, Horton. @Pierlot: Dimitri himself knows of the changes, and he did not mind some of them. The biggest changes have already been reversed anyway. So what's the big deal? The glorious First Consul of Rome (talk) 14:40, July 13, 2012 (UTC)
 * Also, this isn't Dimitri's site, it's a wiki, so it belongs to everyone, not just a single inactive user. Dimitri probably wouldn't like all the changes that have been made since he left, but it would be stupid to be constrained by the possiblity that he wouldn't approve of something. --Semyon 15:03, July 13, 2012 (UTC)
 * Well, in general not. But I can image that if I added a muslim terrorist brother to your family, you would'nt appreciate it too :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 17:14, July 13, 2012 (UTC)
 * Change for the sake of it or unrealistic change is what we should avoid. HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 18:28, July 13, 2012 (UTC)
 * Actually, I wouldn't mind. :P But most people probably would, so fair enough. --Semyon 14:16, July 14, 2012 (UTC)

Notice of Absence
Hey, I'm going to be gone for a week or so with no computer access. See you all on the 22nd. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 14:04, July 14, 2012 (UTC)
 * Alright. Have fun with whatever you're going to do :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 16:54, July 14, 2012 (UTC)
 * Hopefully not Italy: 44 degrees every day! I'm just back since the 10th of July and over two weeks again. Wabba The I 19:14, July 14, 2012 (UTC)
 * Baah.. Though, staying in Limburg isn't that good either. It's been raining for three weeks now :| --O u WTBsjrief-mich 09:45, July 15, 2012 (UTC)

I'll also be gone for next week. Tomorrow I'm leaving to Portugal. HORTON11 : •  20:07, July 14, 2012 (UTC)
 * Alright, have fun! :) --O u WTBsjrief-mich 09:45, July 15, 2012 (UTC)

I'm back, one day early. :D —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 23:14, July 21, 2012 (UTC)
 * Said he with a big smile :P Welcome back! :) --O u WTBsjrief-mich 17:33, July 22, 2012 (UTC)

IWO Games
Wouldn't it great if the IWO would organize a own sporting event called the IWO Games? I suggest we hold a election in which city it will be held. It should be in odd years Pierlot McCrooke 17:22, August 10, 2012 (UTC)


 * Very good idea! We can discuss about the location but I think Noble City is the best and there are many stadiums. We can organize soccer, American football, tennis ore something others (more maybe)! Wabba The I 17:40, August 10, 2012 (UTC)
 * I suggest Lovian Boules Pierlot McCrooke 17:58, August 10, 2012 (UTC)
 * Others could be ping-pong, basketball, badminton and even Bolas. As for the city selection, we could have an official bidding process. HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 18:15, August 10, 2012 (UTC)
 * Are there other Lovian or IWO-related sports? Pierlot McCrooke 18:36, August 10, 2012 (UTC)
 * Apart from Lovian boules and Bolas Francesas I don't know any others. HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 19:11, August 10, 2012 (UTC)
 * Lovian Boules, Bolas, basketball, badminton, table tennis, tennis, fencing, swimming, soccer, field hockey, gynmastics, wrestling, athletics, water polo, archery, taekwondo, canoeing ... But Lovian Boules and Bolas sure! Wabba The I 09:40, August 11, 2012 (UTC)
 * Are drinking games allowed? :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 09:50, August 11, 2012 (UTC)
 * You have your own newspaper to write in (or what was that lovian proverb again?) Pierlot McCrooke 10:50, August 11, 2012 (UTC)

Summer and winter games
Why don't split it up into summer and winter games? If we have the summer games in odd years, we could have the winter games in even years. 4kant,6 (talk) 17:39, August 12, 2012 (UTC)
 * Perhaps a year is a long time. If we want to split it up, we should do it in half years :) --O u WTBsjrief-mich 09:09, August 13, 2012 (UTC)
 * Yes, and there is a half year between the summer and the winter è. 4kant,6 (talk) 09:17, August 13, 2012 (UTC)
 * Hahah, yeah, then we really have summer and winter games :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 10:33, August 13, 2012 (UTC)
 * Summer games in the winter don't make sense è. 4kant,6 (talk) 10:50, August 13, 2012 (UTC)

I don't think we should have separate winter games. Simply having both every year would be better, I think. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 16:03, August 13, 2012 (UTC)
 * Do we actually have a country with a climate that could host winter games? Lovia (Pacific), Libertas (Azores), Mäöres (Indian Ocean), Adlibita/Brunant (Mediterranean) all don't seem to fit :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 17:43, August 13, 2012 (UTC)
 * Perhaps Inselöarna does though (near Shetlands). --O u WTBsjrief-mich 17:43, August 13, 2012 (UTC)

Countries to join
So, we've got Lovia and Brunant for sure. Mäöres might join, but because of bureaucracy we need to have "landjszaal" approval for it :P What about Libertas and Inselöarna? --O u WTBsjrief-mich 10:33, August 13, 2012 (UTC)


 * I'd say yes. 4kant,6 (talk) 10:53, August 13, 2012 (UTC)
 * I suggest also Adlibita (I know they are inactive but we need countries ) Pierlot McCrooke 11:20, August 13, 2012 (UTC)
 * Reptin? 4kant,6 (talk) 11:23, August 13, 2012 (UTC)
 * I suggest we also add some countries from that Micronation wiki !Pierlot McCrooke 11:59, August 13, 2012 (UTC)
 * Maybe we should make a new forum to discuss this. 4kant,6 (talk) 12:07, August 13, 2012 (UTC)
 * In my userspace there is one Pierlot McCrooke 12:09, August 13, 2012 (UTC)
 * Link to the new forum 4kant,6 (talk) 12:24, August 13, 2012 (UTC)

Idea for competition
I had an idea for a competition. Three pictures are chosen to represent each Lovian town (no new uploads allowed!) and users vote on which they would most like to live in. The winner will receive the title of 'Lovia's Favourite/Favorite Town.' :P Anyone like to try this? :P

Also, by town I mean settlement. --Semyon 10:47, August 11, 2012 (UTC)
 * Hurb is definitely going to loose this with all those decayed buildings :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 10:11, August 12, 2012 (UTC)


 * The IWO Games would help revitalize it. The same thing happened in London. Was it Greenwich? It was a bunch of abandoned factories, now replaced by stadiums. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 20:53, August 13, 2012 (UTC)
 * No, we like it decayed :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 21:15, August 13, 2012 (UTC)
 * Oh... :/ —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 14:51, August 14, 2012 (UTC)
 * You don't understand European Catholicism :P The church is beautiful and not decayed, the rest of the village is pure ruins :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 08:39, August 15, 2012 (UTC)

When d'you want to close nominations? :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 17:40, August 13, 2012 (UTC)
 * Well, I added the other places that had been forgotten. :P Shall we start now? I think it might be simplest just to use our usual three-vote system. --Semyon 14:23, August 15, 2012 (UTC)
 * Hahaha, everyone's going to vote for their own towns anyway :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 15:49, August 15, 2012 (UTC)

Novosevensk
Here's an example. --Semyon 10:50, August 11, 2012 (UTC)


 * Novosevensk is easily the most scenic. By settlement can we do cities also? — Beer.png Christopher Costello (Pikapi • Chat  • What's up ) 14:59, August 11, 2012 (UTC)
 * Yes - even individual neighborhoods, though that might be a hassle. Also, I'm not sure each NC neighborhood has three pictures. So one submission from the whole city is fine. --Semyon 16:16, August 11, 2012 (UTC)
 * Then should I change the Ferg beach post to Adoha? HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 16:26, August 11, 2012 (UTC)
 * No, this isn't a very strict competition. :P --Semyon 18:23, August 11, 2012 (UTC)


 * Nice idea! The Richmond House in Newhaven is my second living place but we can first add all towns and cities and I think we do not neighborhoods. Wabba The I 08:53, August 12, 2012 (UTC)

New Positive Lovia logo
I have no decent image editing software on my computer. Can someone with photoshop please remove the white background in my new PL logo and tell me what the hex color codes are of the three shades of blue in the image. I would really, really, really appreciate the help! — Christopher Costello  (Pikapi • Chat  • What's up ) 17:15, August 11, 2012 (UTC)
 * I can't remove the white background, but the hex codes are, from lightest to darkest: #74A7FF, #3A88FE, #0061FF. You can work that out using MSPaint and Calculator, btw. :P --Semyon 18:06, August 11, 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks! Now I just need someone to help with the white background and I'll be complete in updating PL. — Beer.png Christopher Costello (Pikapi • Chat  • What's up ) 18:59, August 11, 2012 (UTC)

35 years since Elvis


As every country has a huge Elvis fan club, probably Lovia does as well :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 07:17, August 16, 2012 (UTC)

Flags
I wonder if we could remake some of our state flags. There's a excellent guide on the internet (here) which I personally find rather convincing, about the best way to design a flag. In particular, the fourth point is 'Never use writing of any kind or an organization’s seal.' The reasons for this are: In particular, the flags of Sylvania and Clymene are IMO boring and far too similar. Would anyone like to briefly read through the document and tell me that if they agree? :P --Semyon 11:04, August 17, 2012 (UTC)
 * words defeat the purpose - 'why not just write “U.S.A.” on a flag?'
 * on an actual flag, words and seals can't easily be seen from a distance, and don't distuingish themselves well.
 * also (though this isn't so important for a wikination) it drives up manufacturing cost, because lettering can't be reversed, so you have to essentially sew two flags together. Seals also require a large amount of colours, which is more expensive.

I agree, and I've already read the document. We should never have seals on the flag. Complex symbols are okay, but simple ones are preferable. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 12:07, August 17, 2012 (UTC)
 * Keep the current flags. (even that for Oceana). But we should use the guidelines for future flags Pierlot McCrooke 14:02, August 17, 2012 (UTC)
 * I was actually looking at that page last week, to help me design Brunant's ensign. But maybe it is about time for a change. HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 14:13, August 17, 2012 (UTC)
 * Exactly why I changed Mäöres's flag :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 15:43, August 17, 2012 (UTC)
 * Wow, and I never noticed that. :P --Semyon 15:49, August 17, 2012 (UTC)
 * You should definitely pay more attention the next time I change a flag :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 16:02, August 17, 2012 (UTC)

Remembering Inactive Users
I was just thinking about all the great users we have lost to time, and thought up this idea: Set up a list of inactive people that the active uesrs can remember the inactive users on. Basically, for the inactive users you once knew (or know), write a one to three sentence thought on them. The inactive users are in order of edit count. I hope the older users will do this! —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 18:41, August 22, 2012 (UTC)
 * User:DimiTalen (Dimi)
 * Der Übermeister :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 11:25, August 23, 2012 (UTC)
 * What Oos said. He's a nice guy, but I sometimes didn't like his attitude that Wikination was 'his wiki.' Still, that was forgiveable, seeing as he had more than twice as many edits as anyone else. :P --Semyon 13:28, August 23, 2012 (UTC)
 * I can understand that . This was something I myself struggled with: how to be constructively engaging without being possessive and obsessing. I never really managed to do that, I guess ;). DimiTalen 15:16, September 2, 2012 (UTC)
 * Haha, well, I can't really blame you. :P I would probably have been even worse. There must have always been a tension between 'I need to help these new users so the site can grow' and 'wtf these n00bs are wrecking everything!!' --Semyon 16:10, September 11, 2012 (UTC)
 * Didn't like that too. Didn't like his attitude towards newbies like Horton. Was a pretty good user otherwise Pierlot McCrooke 15:02, August 23, 2012 (UTC)
 * I like how we call this guy a "pretty good user". One of the best ever and I want him back on the throne :D Marcus/Michael Villanova 16:14, September 2, 2012 (UTC)
 * User:Regaliorum (Yuri)
 * Yeah, I always liked having nonsensical discussions about religion and communism with him. He is still active on facebook though, spreading his communist belief :P His English wasn't very good, but he did a lot, especially for Lovia as a whole and his own state Kings. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 11:25, August 23, 2012 (UTC)
 * Just a really nice guy. I never really thought of him as a communist, instead more like a moderate socialist. But maybe that's because he didn't propose anything seriously communist in Congress? I don't know. But I never think of him as a communist. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 12:23, August 23, 2012 (UTC)
 * One of the most intelligent people on this wiki, but I virtually never agreed with him on anything. What does that say about me? :P --Semyon 13:28, August 23, 2012 (UTC)
 * The most nice user on Wikination. Could interact with every person. Had a lot of the good aspects of Dimi Pierlot McCrooke 15:02, August 23, 2012 (UTC)
 * I still talk to yuri and dimi from time to time on FaceBook and they still continue being "progressives" This guy was never a communist, but I think he embodied the greatness of a wiki, that even though he wasnt a Full RedCommie, its a game and he understood that better than the rest of us Marcus/Michael Villanova 16:14, September 2, 2012 (UTC)
 * User:Bucurestean (Bucu)
 * Bucu was my soulmate :P We were always fighting against Dimitri and his police state-like governing of Lovia. I know the many times Bucu and I were sockpopping around in order to irritate Dimitri, Anfii being the best example of this :P I often got sick of Wikinations and then he stopped for a few months, always coming back though because he couldn't keep himself from annoying Dimitri :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 11:25, August 23, 2012 (UTC)
 * "Hes always coming, like a dickhead" - Notorious BIG I dont have much nice to say Marcus/Michael Villanova 16:14, September 2, 2012 (UTC)
 * Despite the fact he created your favourite place?! :O --Semyon 16:12, September 11, 2012 (UTC)
 * User:Aesopos (Lars)
 * Hahaha, by far the strangest user to have walked around here :P I knew him from Libertas where I took over a neighborhood which was sort of "taken over" by him. For some reason I've always thought he wasn't really "well in his head" :P He sometimes reacted a bit Spongebob-like :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 11:20, August 23, 2012 (UTC)
 * I never thought he contributed something. Only added humor Pierlot McCrooke 15:02, August 23, 2012 (UTC)
 * I thought he was a deep guy Marcus/Michael Villanova 16:14, September 2, 2012 (UTC)
 * User:Jon Johnson (Jon)
 * A commie, more like a second Yuri :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 11:20, August 23, 2012 (UTC)
 * Dude came into the political scene and out in less than a fucking 5 month period. wow lol Marcus/Michael Villanova 16:14, September 2, 2012 (UTC)
 * User:SjorskingmaWikistad (Sjors)
 * I've still seen this guy on facebook. Apart from some linguistic discussions we didn't really talked. He was the Clymene person and I think he tried to make Clymene more like Oceana (more with a separate identity). He couldn't get Plains through Congress though. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 11:20, August 23, 2012 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I've seen his fb page too. Nothing he did seemed to really work - Clymene, Plains, Harvia - and I think eventually he got frustrated and left. --Semyon 13:28, August 23, 2012 (UTC)
 * I think ive seen him on FB cant be sure, but i liked his shit real nice guy Marcus/Michael Villanova 16:14, September 2, 2012 (UTC)
 * User:American Eagle (Arthur)
 * Hahah, AE has often been seen as a marionette of Dimitri. They always voted the same, but AE did have some criticism sometimes on Dimitri's laws. In the usual case, Dimitri simply changed the law and it was voted through by a 75% majority (mainly Bucu and me voting contra or neutral :P). --O u WTBsjrief-mich 11:20, August 23, 2012 (UTC)
 * Not a huge fan of AE tbh. --Semyon 13:28, August 23, 2012 (UTC)
 * Also not. But could you tell me the reason? I have never liked his chagrin Wikipedia-style enforcements (this also applies to dimi) Pierlot McCrooke 15:04, August 23, 2012 (UTC)
 * I thought he was a bit full of him self, but rightly so, great bill writer Marcus/Michael Villanova 16:14, September 2, 2012 (UTC)
 * User:Intothewild (Andy)
 * While Andy and me weren't always agreeing on most viewpoints, we could work together fairly well. Actually, Oceana was about the only state where governor and deputy worked together. We set up the state parks and some cultural projects. A few days after his disappearance I got a disturbing mail from him, he was hit by a truck and was in hospital. After that, we never heard anything from him anymore :( --O u WTBsjrief-mich 11:20, August 23, 2012 (UTC)
 * He was actually a good guy, and seemed like a real green eco-guy. HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 14:11, August 23, 2012 (UTC)
 * I was scared as shit when weve not heard anything from him. Cause of the incident, but i miss that eco-progressive-libertarianism. Marcus/Michael Villanova 16:14, September 2, 2012 (UTC)
 * User:M. Van Gent (Martha)
 * I miss her, she was the backbone of the WLP Marcus/Michael Villanova 16:14, September 2, 2012 (UTC)
 * User:Armachedes (Edward)
 * Intelligent. For example, La Quotidienne, which was at one point written by him, is an example of how well he can write. I wish he was still around. I also loved his atheism (although apparently, he's "ignostic" now), and I always couldn't understand why he joined the CCPL. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 12:23, August 23, 2012 (UTC)
 * He was okay, though I found him a bit arrogant and inconsistent. --Semyon 13:28, August 23, 2012 (UTC)
 * A bit arrogant? His being an atheist with the CCPL seemed strange. And what he wrote in La Quotidienne was almost liek a biased right-wing rant, but he knew how to dress pu his "facts" well. HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 14:11, August 23, 2012 (UTC)
 * Hated him, did nothing but bitch and moan. Can you blame him he had to deal with me lol but seriously he was too arrogant, Marcus/Michael Villanova 16:14, September 2, 2012 (UTC)
 * User:Harold Freeman (Harold)
 * I rather liked Harold, but he only turned up sporadically. Never really talked to him... --Semyon 13:28, August 23, 2012 (UTC)
 * ^^^^^Same Marcus/Michael Villanova 16:14, September 2, 2012 (UTC)
 * User:Percival E (Galahad)
 * Nice guy Marcus/Michael Villanova 16:14, September 2, 2012 (UTC)
 * User:George Matthews
 * Yeah, well, never really liked him. He was only active during the Hurbanova Crisis, when he was the one who did undemocratical things to stop our independence movement. Bucu and me suspected him from being a sockpop of Dimitri; he later turned out to be his older brother... --O u WTBsjrief-mich 11:20, August 23, 2012 (UTC)
 * ^^^Sure he was his old brother. sure. Lol jk Marcus/Michael Villanova 16:14, September 2, 2012 (UTC)
 * User:Censuree (Alyssa)
 * Censuree is of course our die-hard commie writer :P Never really had any special relationship with her, nor can I remember even having a conversation :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 11:20, August 23, 2012 (UTC)
 * who? i think i talked to her once. Marcus/Michael Villanova 16:14, September 2, 2012 (UTC)
 * User:George Matthews
 * Yeah, well, never really liked him. He was only active during the Hurbanova Crisis, when he was the one who did undemocratical things to stop our independence movement. Bucu and me suspected him from being a sockpop of Dimitri; he later turned out to be his older brother... --O u WTBsjrief-mich 11:20, August 23, 2012 (UTC)
 * ^^^Sure he was his old brother. sure. Lol jk Marcus/Michael Villanova 16:14, September 2, 2012 (UTC)
 * User:Censuree (Alyssa)
 * Censuree is of course our die-hard commie writer :P Never really had any special relationship with her, nor can I remember even having a conversation :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 11:20, August 23, 2012 (UTC)
 * who? i think i talked to her once. Marcus/Michael Villanova 16:14, September 2, 2012 (UTC)
 * Censuree is of course our die-hard commie writer :P Never really had any special relationship with her, nor can I remember even having a conversation :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 11:20, August 23, 2012 (UTC)
 * who? i think i talked to her once. Marcus/Michael Villanova 16:14, September 2, 2012 (UTC)

That's enough for now, I might add some more. I've always been interested in the inactive users, so please contribute to this. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 18:41, August 22, 2012 (UTC)
 * Okay, I'll try to write something about them today :) --O u WTBsjrief-mich 09:31, August 23, 2012 (UTC)

New user
Hi there! I'm interested in contributed to your Wiki, but I'd like to ask you a few things before: Thank you in advance.
 * The pictures of the Lovian people are taken from real-life personalitites?
 * If not, how do you create them?
 * Is it required to become a member?
 * Hey!
 * Most are, you can simply scan Commons to look for a nice image you think fits your wiki personality :)
 * It is required to have a username. You can easily do this using this link :) --O u WTBsjrief-mich 11:48, August 23, 2012 (UTC)

Thank you very much!
 * No problem :) --O u WTBsjrief-mich 12:07, August 23, 2012 (UTC)

Our spotlight has finally arrived!! :D --Semyon 19:10, August 23, 2012 (UTC)
 * I just saw it for the first time seconds after I read this comment. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 20:02, August 23, 2012 (UTC)
 * can someone provide a picture? Pierlot McCrooke 09:45, August 24, 2012 (UTC)
 * I've seen it too now :) --O u WTBsjrief-mich 09:46, August 24, 2012 (UTC)
 * Hmm. I thought spotlights were supposed to last two weeks, but ours has been going for more than a month now. 77topaz (talk) 10:47, October 3, 2012 (UTC)
 * I don't think there's a limit. I know some Scandinavian wikis have been spotlighted for over a year now... --O u WTBsjrief-mich 10:57, October 3, 2012 (UTC)

Auction
Do you think we can have an auction house for Lovia, with actual bidding for art, cars and other antiques? HORTON11 : •  14:51, August 24, 2012 (UTC)
 * Sure, why not? :) --O u WTBsjrief-mich 17:10, August 24, 2012 (UTC)


 * Typical Horton11. Verry good idea. Your interests: cars, Dutch, painters and money are good so why not. Can you make a page or ...? Wabba The I (talk) 15:41, September 9, 2012 (UTC)
 * Check out Dubourg Montjoy; there are a few paintings and I would like to get a few more before starting the auction. HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 17:58, September 9, 2012 (UTC)

Internet restrictions
As I'm moving out, my new internet connection (during the week) will only be 500mb per month, so my edits will probably be restricted to the weekends :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 17:14, August 24, 2012 (UTC)

So there's no limit on use during the weekends? Odd. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 22:39, August 24, 2012 (UTC)
 * No, during the weekends I'm back in Limburg :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 07:41, August 25, 2012 (UTC)

Interwiki sv.wikination
I propose to create an interwiki to and from Inselöarna. I don't think there are any objections? --O u WTBsjrief-mich 08:05, August 25, 2012 (UTC)
 * No. 4kant,6FRÅGOR??? 08:38, August 25, 2012 (UTC)

Why can we never start a second english wikia instead of more foriegn wikis lol Marcus/Michael Villanova 15:59, September 2, 2012 (UTC)


 * Well Brunant is in English, and there are a few other ones which have not taken off yet. HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 18:16, September 2, 2012 (UTC)

whoa
Ive been inactive recently but glad to come back and see all these new users :D hopefully we can all become better users because of it Marcus/Michael Villanova 15:56, September 2, 2012 (UTC)
 * I was thinking of an independent alaska, fun, different, conservative. Anyone else? Marcus/Michael Villanova 16:16, September 2, 2012 (UTC)
 * I think we shouldn't have any more English wikinations if possible. I also think wikinations should be composed of new land. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 17:50, September 2, 2012 (UTC)
 * I recently had an idea for a French wikination in the Cote d'Azur. It would be on a fictional peninsula/extension of land on southern France. HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 18:22, September 2, 2012 (UTC)
 * There is already a French wikination. 4kant,6FRÅGOR??? 18:29, September 2, 2012 (UTC)
 * I know, but that one was terribly done. With TimeMaster we continued it here, but it kinda fell apart (couldn't agree on the geography). HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 18:45, September 2, 2012 (UTC)
 * Yes, that's right... A new, good, French wikination would be better :P 4kant,6FRÅGOR??? 18:48, September 2, 2012 (UTC)
 * You don't speak French, by any chance? I think the newer French wikination could be used instead of making a totally new one. HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 19:06, September 2, 2012 (UTC)
 * I speak some French, but not very much :P 4kant,6FRÅGOR??? 19:10, September 2, 2012 (UTC)


 * Well im happy to see the new users none the less :D Marcus/Michael Villanova 20:01, September 2, 2012 (UTC)
 * Have to say I agree there, I can't wait to see them define themselves more. :) Kunarian (talk) 20:08, September 2, 2012 (UTC)

Just wanted to say... the French Wikination that Greenday made is horrible. There is dutch everywhere. People talked on the talk pages in Dutch. Several of the image names of Dutch. There are Dutch translations of things. To make things worse, the flag is horrible. It's more of an MS paint crudely done drawing than a flag, and it is basically the opposite of the principles of vexillology. That's why I tried to make a new one. But unfortunately, I can only communicate at an intermediate level in French. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 20:39, September 2, 2012 (UTC)

Pacific Islands Cup
There are some details to be finalised for the 2012 Pacific Islands Cup, including: where should it be hosted? Should there be 18 or 20 teams or a different number altogether? If 20 or anything more than 18, what nations should be invited?

This is the current list: There are suggestions etc. at the Pacific Islands Cup page. 77topaz (talk) 04:15, September 4, 2012 (UTC)
 * American Samoa
 * Cook Islands
 * Fiji
 * Kiribati
 * Lovia
 * Marshall Islands
 * Micronesia (Federated States of)
 * Nauru
 * New Caledonia
 * New Zealand
 * Niue
 * Palau
 * Samoa
 * Solomon Islands
 * Tokelau
 * Tonga
 * Tuvalu
 * Vanuatu

I've made Lovia the host, since this is the Lovia wiki, after all. Now, we just need to decide whether there will be invitees, and if there will be invitees, which teams. Suggestions from the PIC page include Japan and the Philippines, Chinese Taipei and Hong Kong, and Indonesia and Papua New Guinea. 77topaz (talk) 22:26, September 7, 2012 (UTC)

Okay, there will be invitees, but we need to decide on which teams. 77topaz (talk) 00:20, September 8, 2012 (UTC)

I'd like for other people to have at least some contribution to this. Should I add a poll? 77topaz (talk) 11:51, September 8, 2012 (UTC)

Sorry I didn't respond before. :) Yes, Lovia can be the host, that's probably best. What exactly do you mean by invitees: nations in addition to the ones already on the list? --Semyon 11:54, September 8, 2012 (UTC)

Yes. 20 would be a rounder number than 18, especially since sevens generally uses cup, plate, bowl etc. brackets. 77topaz (talk) 12:18, September 8, 2012 (UTC)

So, anybody interested? Any preferences? Any suggestions? 77topaz (talk) 21:12, September 8, 2012 (UTC)

Unless anybody objects, I'll make Chinese Taipei and Hong Kong the invitees. 77topaz (talk) 01:20, September 9, 2012 (UTC)

Okay, they're now the invitees. (CT&HK)

The completely random draw (see 2012 Pacific Islands Cup) has made poules that are rather... lopsided, I think. Maybe we should have pots for the seeding. Any suggestions/ideas? 77topaz (talk) 08:17, September 9, 2012 (UTC)

One idea is a "top pot" with Lovia (assigned to A), Fiji, Samoa and NZ in it, a "second pot" with the Cook Islands, Niue, Hong Kong and Tonga in it, and a "third pot" with the rest of the teams in it (the likely-debuting ones). Each poule would 1 team from the first pot, 1 from the second and 3 from the third. 77topaz (talk) 08:17, September 9, 2012 (UTC)

The new poules indeed look better. I'll add the match templates for the first round soon. What do you think? 77topaz (talk) 09:04, September 9, 2012 (UTC)

Seeding indeed makes a lot more sense. Could you explain the shield/plate/feather award in a little more detail please? I don't find it completely clear. --Semyon 17:35, September 9, 2012 (UTC)

Okay. It's based on the IRB Sevens series tournaments. They have four poules of four. The group winners and runners-up enter what would be the normal quarterfinals, called the Cup bracket. The teams that lose in the first round of the Cup go into the Plate bracket (5th-8th place). The teams that came third and fourth in the group stage enter the Bowl bracket (9th-12th place). The teams that lose in the first round of the Bowl go into the Shield bracket (13th-16th place). Since we have 20 teams (five per poule), I added a bracket for the fifth-placed teams to go into, the Feather bracket (17th-20th place). You understand that? 77topaz (talk) 19:46, September 9, 2012 (UTC)

Yeah, perfectly clear. Suppose, however, that a team wins the Feather bracket, and there's another team that enters the Cup bracket but is knocked out in the next round. Then the first team will leave with an award while the last one won't, even though the latter is the better team - how is that fair? --Semyon 08:39, September 12, 2012 (UTC)

The latter team would enter the Plate bracket (semifinals). 77topaz (talk) 09:14, September 12, 2012 (UTC)

Poll
 Do you approve of the Novosevensk unofficial government? Yes, and I am a resident of Novosevensk Yes, and I am not a resident of Novosevensk No, and I am a resident of Novosevensk No, and I am not a resident of Novosevensk 

--Semyon 11:43, September 8, 2012 (UTC)

This is for citizens, right? Am I a citizen? 77topaz (talk) 11:52, September 8, 2012 (UTC)

Go ahead and vote. :P No-one would have known anyway, since it's an anonymous poll. You could even log out and vote again with your IP (cheating). --Semyon 11:57, September 8, 2012 (UTC)
 * Though I support the principal of an advisory council; I don't not support undemocratic pseudo-governments. The legislative and executive branches should always be represented by democratically chosen persons (preferrably male persons in CCPL opinion). --O u WTBsjrief-mich 17:23, September 8, 2012 (UTC)
 * 0_0 at the parenthetical remark. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 19:26, September 8, 2012 (UTC)
 * I see you don't know much about CCPL :P Take a look at our site (on Sundays it's closed, so you can't take a look at it today :P). I'll cite:  Women are entitled to vote at elections, but may not participate in elections, as that is contradictive to the vocation of women. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 08:28, September 9, 2012 (UTC)
 * I hacked the CCPL website and looked at the Not-Sunday subpage. I guess you're entitled to your opinion but a part of it just before that quote didn't make sense. You support equality for women in judicial situations (and two others that I can't remember) but not in major enterprises? It had the word quota thrown in there for some reason as well. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 17:11, September 9, 2012 (UTC)
 * I just hacked it as well :P Let's give an analysis:
 * We oppose all kinds of discrimination based on religion, ancestry, appearance, sex and possession as long as this doesn't contradict to the only true word, the one of the Bible.
 * Pretty straight forward I'd say.
 * Therefore women should be treated equal to men in judicial, commercial and private environments and quota in major enterprises are not acceptable, as they make it easier for women than men to get a certain post.
 * Simply a consequence of the first line. As we are pro equality, there should be no rules which give a preferance for a certain religion, race or sex. "women quota" are a typical Dutch thing I guess: we have rules that 30% of all major top functions should be female and another consequence of the quota is that there is a shortage of police officers, as currently white male people can no longer become police officer because women and foreigners are represented below a certain percentage. It's just ridiculous...
 * Women are entitled to vote at elections, but may not participate in elections, as that is contradictive to the vocation of women.
 * Also pretty straight forward. Women may vote, but they may not have a political function, because they are not destined to rule (be it a company or a country).
 * --O u WTBsjrief-mich 18:45, September 9, 2012 (UTC)
 * Well, that's pretty medieval. HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 19:26, September 9, 2012 (UTC)
 * Not really I agree with everything up til the final part but that's the opinion of CCPL and if you that's the only bit you take problem with vote CNP instead. Kunarian (talk) 19:29, September 9, 2012 (UTC)
 * Actually the only conservative part is 'women may not participate in elections', and considering elections were not commonplace in the Middle Ages I don't think it can be fairly described as mediaeval. :P --Semyon 19:31, September 9, 2012 (UTC)
 * Nowadays it's not in anyone's benefit to exclude women from participating in politics; you could very well be branded an islamist extremist by some in society. I also do not agree with the quotas, but a good democracy shouldn't need them; a good amount of women should run and get elected on their own. HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 19:52, September 9, 2012 (UTC)
 * It's not at all mediaevel. It's just common Christianity and with two milliard Christians these days, you'd better call it 21th-century ideas :P Though, let me point to the fact that this view on women not being allowed to become leaders/politicians is the official party line, but it's not supported by all CCPL members. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 03:23, September 10, 2012 (UTC)
 * Well how can muslim countries like Pakistan allow women to run (and to become president, even). And if it were "common Christianity", then how come many, if not most Christian countries have women participating in politics. It's because most civilized people have become on the fact that it is backwards and discriminatory to bar women from politics and to see them as second to men. HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 13:08, September 10, 2012 (UTC)
 * Horton, although some CCPL ideas are somewhat unusual (I don't agree with this either) it's pretty fruitless to call them 'backwards' and imply Oos osn't 'civilised.' In any case, there's always been a decided lack of female users on this wiki so I doubt this will have a significant impact. :P --Semyon 12:00, September 11, 2012 (UTC)
 * Though these policies are rather backards, it's nothing personal against Oos or his beliefs. And at times, I too have taken more traditional approaches than him, for example on the abortion issue. HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 14:38, September 11, 2012 (UTC)
 * Let an American Christian read the Bible and he will never vote democratic or republican again :P Actually, the first Christians lived as some kind of precommunists. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 17:25, September 11, 2012 (UTC)
 * Indeed. Acts 4:32: And the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul: neither said any of them that ought of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common. Not all communists are Marxists. :P --Semyon 18:21, September 11, 2012 (UTC)
 * TBH, I haven't read more than a page or two of the bible, plus a couple other quotes such as Timothy 2:12, because I find it strange, confusing, and I strongly disagree with many parts of it. I agree that quota are enforced asininely, but I don't think they should be removed altogether, instead just watered down. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 21:56, September 11, 2012 (UTC)
 * @Semyon: couldn't give a better quote :P @TM: I guess you're happy Lovia is a democratic country, so you may have your own opinion as well :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 09:03, September 12, 2012 (UTC)

In other news, it seems that opposition is solid outside of Novosevensk, and leaning opposed inside Novosevensk. Interesting. I wonder who the one person in Novosevensk who supported it is? —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 21:56, September 11, 2012 (UTC)

Also, Oos, about women in politics, I wanted to say this: Angela Merkel. She's part of the Christian Democrats there. . . —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 01:43, September 17, 2012 (UTC)
 * Yep, but European Christian Democrats are not real Christian parties. The majority of them actually are pro-abortion... They are mainly center-right parties which are called "Christian" for historic reasons. Nothing Christian to it actually :) --O u WTBsjrief-mich 03:12, September 17, 2012 (UTC)

Places
Can I create any neihbourhood in Lovia? Tramien (talk) 14:05, September 11, 2012 (UTC)
 * Hey there! Generally we add new settlements rarely, because it's better to have a few very developed ones than many which aren't really complete. You can, however, add to existing articles, create a character for yourself in Lovia or start a business.


 * If you really want to make a new neighborhood, then make a user subpage (e.g. User:Tramien/Neighborhood X) and make an article as detailed as you can. Then, if the community agrees (which can't be guaranteed unfortunately), it can be added to the main site. I hope that this helps! :) --Semyon 16:06, September 11, 2012 (UTC)

Elections in the Netherlands
As today are the lections for the Dutchies.. Let's give my expectations for the results: Not participating this time: I've marked my preferred government in bold :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 09:51, September 12, 2012 (UTC)
 * VVD: 34 (liberal) - 41
 * PvdA: 33 (Labour) - 39 38
 * SP: 23 (socialist) - 15
 * PVV: 16 (Geert Wilders, populist) - 15
 * CDA: 15 (christian democratic) - 13
 * D66: 10 (pragmatic) - 12
 * CU: 6 (Christian socialist) - 5
 * GL: 4 (environmentalist) - 3 4
 * SGP: 3 (reformed Christian theocratic) - 3
 * PvdD: 3 (animal rights) - 2
 * 50+: 2 (old people's rights) - 2
 * LP: 1 (Libertarian) - 0
 * DPK: 0 (Hero Brinkman, populist) - 0
 * PP: 0 (pirate party) - 0
 * PvdT: 0 ("party party": everybody'll get a free iPad...) - 0
 * NL: 0 (more local, less centralism) - 0
 * LibDem: 0 (liberal democrats) - 0
 * MenS: 0 (hippy, vague shit party) - 0
 * AEP: 0 (anti-Europe party) - 0
 * SOPN: 0 (UFO-minded people or something...) - 0
 * PP NXD: 0 (back to the 60s and 70s) - 0
 * EPN (Evangelic)
 * BGP (bible belters)
 * VCP (communist)
 * Blanco (youth)
 * millions of other shitty parties.
 * I thought SGP didn't participate in governments. --Semyon 10:23, September 12, 2012 (UTC)
 * Well, in the Netherlands we've got gedoogconstructies. Not part of the government, but still voting pro-government bills in return for some "favours" :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 10:39, September 12, 2012 (UTC)

Quite close though :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 03:20, September 13, 2012 (UTC)


 * I didnt think Labour (is bob choen still leader?) would do that good, i thought Geert would get a bounce or something seems like he did good in limburg last time, No? Marcus/Michael Villanova 13:25, September 17, 2012 (UTC)
 * Job Cohen was replaced after his party lost about 10 seats (in the polls they actually dropped 25 under his leadership...). The current leader is Diederik Samsom.
 * Well, Geert's party f*cked up in the provincial parlement of Limburg. Only three municipalities in Limburg still have his party as the largest. Most have gone to VVD (liberals). Also, Liburgish people don't really care about Europe, so his anti-Europe campaign didn't work out as much as his anti-immigrant campaign. Anyway, I think it's good that Wilders lost seats. Hopefully he'll lose more next elections :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 14:02, September 17, 2012 (UTC)
 * I was under the impression you liked Wilders. HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 15:24, September 17, 2012 (UTC)
 * Right ^ xD I mostly know about Netherland politics due to the 270.soft games where according to there tagling "Gaming gets political" Its like election games for your computer very fun, they have free games once you buy one. I played the netherlands version, it seemed like the map was switching to Labour-Liberal and more away from Christian Democrat and PVV. I'll have to re-read the wikipedia articles though xD Marcus/Michael Villanova 22:01, September 17, 2012 (UTC)
 * Hahaha, sometimes you need a political update :P @Horton: No, I just like using his image :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 03:12, September 18, 2012 (UTC)

Christopher Costello's profile
I think its time Christopher Costello made a prominent return to the political stage (don't worry, he's not running in the upcoming state elections), but I'll need a suitable image first, I think. I'd like to find a new actor that suit's Christopher Costello besides the clearly recognizable Neil Patrick Harris. Keep in mind his style and that he is a young, blonde haired, blue eyed male (preferably not a recognizable actor or model). If any of you can think of any people that would portray Costello well, I'd greatly appreciate a name and one (or more) images. It'll be fun. — Christopher Costello  (Pikapi • <font color=#2E6FFD>Chat  • <font color=#2E6FFD>What's up ) 20:38, September 14, 2012 (UTC)
 * All I can suggest is you browse Wikimedia Commons until you find someone suitable. --Semyon 09:47, September 17, 2012 (UTC)

Notice to citizens
Nominations are now open for the 2012 State Elections. All citizens may nominate themselves up until the 30th of September and vote for their preferred candidate from the 1st of October. All election regulations can be found in the Constitution. --Semyon 12:18, September 16, 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks for opening the nominations. I'll have a look right away :) --O u WTBsjrief-mich 12:47, September 16, 2012 (UTC)
 * Until the 31st of September? Quite strange, since September only has 30 days... :P 4kant,6FRÅGOR??? 13:36, September 16, 2012 (UTC)
 * Whoops. :/ Thanks for pointing that out, we could have been waiting forever for nomination to end. :P --Semyon 13:56, September 16, 2012 (UTC)
 * Haha :D 4kant,6FRÅGOR??? 14:27, September 16, 2012 (UTC)
 * I lol'd. I also decided to run, since I don't think a CCPL governor is right for Kings. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 01:41, September 17, 2012 (UTC)


 * You just have something against me and not against a CCPL Governor for Kings! Wabba The I (talk) 15:48, September 18, 2012 (UTC)
 * I don't believe TM would do that, Wabba. :) Though I don't agree with his reasoning myself, as it's well known CCPL has a non-religious wing which could probably win in Kings. --Semyon 19:59, September 18, 2012 (UTC)


 * Thanks. I have ideas but it is the English. Wabba The I (talk) 14:31, September 22, 2012 (UTC)

@people who don't want to stand
Why not stand for Deputy instead? That way we get proper users in the positions, you get a nice new job title, and no duties are actually involved. --Semyon 17:52, September 16, 2012 (UTC)

State Plan
Please look into my User:Crystalbeastdeck09/Politics and scrowl down to see my latest attempt at state reform. Please. Marcus/Michael Villanova 00:23, September 17, 2012 (UTC)
 * I'm missing something. How is the state legislature elected? --O u WTBsjrief-mich 03:14, September 17, 2012 (UTC)
 * It's bascially like the federal version, per state. Idk read it again, but i think i added something like that in. Marcus/Michael Villanova 13:20, September 17, 2012 (UTC)
 * Ow yeah, you're right. I thought the election bit was about electing the Governor, but now I see that the Governor is appointed by the legislature. A few points (a lot actually :P):
 * Is the Governor an elected member of the state legislature?
 * Do people vote on parties or on individuals for the state legislature? (individuals will cause problems as we do not have enough users; or perhaps even better: using the same system as for the Federal Elections)
 * How is the Deputy Governor appointed/elected?
 * What's NHS?
 * Are you planning to re-enact the state police or do you mean local police chapters of the federal police?
 * What about a check system? I believe Congress should still be able to intervene in state affairs if necessary.
 * --O u WTBsjrief-mich 14:09, September 17, 2012 (UTC)
 * NHS stands for National Health Service, I think. But I believe we already have a provision for free public healthcare in our federal law. HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 15:21, September 17, 2012 (UTC)
 * Like a prime minister, the Governor is an elected member
 * Individuals, it's based on the Federal system but people can be in two states in which they live so let's say I have residences in Kings and Sylvania, I run in those two and get votes which turn into seats. But lets say I have another member of my party lets say horton, we may stragitically put him in Sylvania and Clymene so we have a majority in Sylvania and some seats in Clymene. Basically you still vote for a person,like the federal version but instead of 100 seats we have ten and people can keep you in check.
 * I forgot about that, thanks ill add in a line
 * NHS...i thought that is what we called our Universal health care. Ill change it.
 * State police, no local police though. There will be only two branches State and Federal.
 * Agreed so much. There's a line already in there about laws being unconsitutional, and congress can intervine in the size of the body so it doesnt get to large. Also it already stated states can't become there own country so we reamin "Better Together".
 * Marcus/Michael Villanova 22:10, September 17, 2012 (UTC)


 * Perhaps also include a line on Natural State Parks? --O u WTBsjrief-mich 15:25, September 17, 2012 (UTC) Not necessary if state laws are reintroduced...
 * I basically wanna move this to the first chamber now. Basically because I want this election to be the one were we test this out. Marcus/Michael Villanova 22:50, September 17, 2012 (UTC)
 * Okay, @NHS: you are right :P @State police: that would actually require readding the local police act. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 03:16, September 18, 2012 (UTC)
 * Okay, ummm Imma tweek this one last time, and propose it in the first chamber. Leave it for two days. And move it to the second chamber Marcus/Michael Villanova 13:21, September 18, 2012 (UTC)

Activity
I mentioned to Kunarian the other day that soon my activity levels are going to drop rather sharply, and alas, that time has come. I'll be gone completely for a couple of weeks (going to America! super excited :D) and when I come back I'm going straight to university where I intend to work quite hard. I'll visit often, hopefully daily, but there won't be the same level of sustained activity. Just in case you miss me. :P --Semyon 19:29, September 21, 2012 (UTC)


 * Will you, by any chance, be going to Philadelphia? HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 19:34, September 21, 2012 (UTC)
 * Enjoy America! and buy some Vanilla Cola to share around here will you? :D And as I just said to Horton my time is becoming more free so I may be able to help keep activity levels going. And of course we'll miss you :) Kunarian (talk) 20:00, September 21, 2012 (UTC)
 * @Horton: no, unfortunately. :) --Semyon 20:23, September 21, 2012 (UTC)


 * Cool, are you visiting New York? I know its a popular tourist destination, and its my home state as well. — Beer.png <font color=#2E6FFD>Christopher Costello (<font color=#2E6FFD>Pikapi • <font color=#2E6FFD>Chat  • <font color=#2E6FFD>What's up ) 20:40, September 21, 2012 (UTC)
 * Alright, have a good time! :) --O u WTBsjrief-mich 08:14, September 22, 2012 (UTC)

I wish I could travel to other countries. D: Have fun! —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 12:59, September 22, 2012 (UTC)


 * Have a nice time, friend! Wabba The I (talk) 14:33, September 22, 2012 (UTC)

New users
List is incomplete. Most of them (in both lists) are blocked, are gone, were bored, had only made 1 edit. I think alle these are the same person. No no joke. But we are popular. You see? Wabba The I (talk) 14:57, September 22, 2012 (UTC)
 * Looks like the spotlight's working :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 17:40, September 22, 2012 (UTC)
 * At least one came here without spotlight (me :P) 4kant,6FRÅGOR??? 07:10, September 23, 2012 (UTC)
 * Hahaha, when I came here, spotlights didn't even exist :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 09:54, September 23, 2012 (UTC)


 * How is it on Inseloarna? Wabba The I (talk) 10:12, September 23, 2012 (UTC)
 * Less new users than here :P 4kant,6FRÅGOR??? 11:07, September 23, 2012 (UTC)
 * Yeah, but it's very cosy :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 11:13, September 23, 2012 (UTC)


 * Yeah, sorry I'm not active more in Inseloarna because I'm working in Libertas. How I can be administrator there. I'm just the only user, so why not? Wabba The I (talk) 15:15, September 23, 2012 (UTC)
 * You should be more active on Brunant, Wabba. HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 15:20, September 23, 2012 (UTC)
 * @Wabba: I replied on your Libertan talk page. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 15:26, September 23, 2012 (UTC)


 * @Horton11: Yes, I would like to create pages and stuff on Brunant.
 * @O u WTB: Yes. Sorry for late reaction but I was hiking. All this is not necessary. Wabba The I (talk) 18:15, September 23, 2012 (UTC)
 * Great! Hopefully you can be around more. HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 12:33, September 28, 2012 (UTC)


 * And we have a new one here: User:Kingdomofzekberg. 4kant,6FRÅGOR??? 15:24, September 28, 2012 (UTC)

Ammunition
Lovia has already three ammunition companies: Costello Enterprises Munitions, Kameron Armaments and Anderson Arms, Inc. Don't you think there are too much for a small country?--George the Greek (talk) 20:02, September 26, 2012 (UTC)
 * We're just great in exporting ammunition to Greece :P As I'm anti-monopolies, I'm not opposed to the fact that there are three companies. Though personally, I would like to see none... --O u WTBsjrief-mich 20:07, September 26, 2012 (UTC)
 * Doesn't our Firearms act cover ammunition? Or is it just weapons. HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 20:23, September 26, 2012 (UTC)
 * - Just weapons. Also, it doesn't say anything about production of weapons, only ownership and use. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 20:30, September 26, 2012 (UTC)
 * Well how could arms ownership be banned if they don't ban production. Cause someone's gotta own those guns and not all of them are for export. HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 20:49, September 26, 2012 (UTC)
 * The weapons and equipment we manufacture are for the Federal Police, and some of them are also being sold overseas. Weapons manufacturing is not illegal in any way whatsoever, and is vital in terms of maintaining an effective police force. — Beer.png <font color=#2E6FFD>Christopher Costello (<font color=#2E6FFD>Pikapi • <font color=#2E6FFD>Chat  • <font color=#2E6FFD>What's up ) 22:04, September 26, 2012 (UTC)
 * I don't think it would be a good case that the Lovian police fires enough ammunition to keep a whole company running... --O u WTBsjrief-mich 03:09, September 27, 2012 (UTC)
 * You should stop being so cynical, its just business. The coorporations operate outside of Lovia too, and thats were they get most of their money. — Beer.png <font color=#2E6FFD>Christopher Costello (<font color=#2E6FFD>Pikapi • <font color=#2E6FFD>Chat  • <font color=#2E6FFD>What's up ) 03:34, September 27, 2012 (UTC)
 * I'm not against, but the two of them are family-operated. They can't sell nationwide!--George the Greek (talk) 09:21, September 27, 2012 (UTC)
 * Heh the Kameron family isn't several thousand strong (although that would be awesome because then they could make their own city - Kameron City (imaginative :L)) and their Lovian factory makes most of its money from export, ammunition is not the main product in the factory but weapons are, we make a lot more money from the hunters in Lovia and the Police... well Lovias aren't trigger happy so everyone should be happy :D Kunarian (talk) 14:44, September 27, 2012 (UTC)
 * It's illegal I think. As you may not own a weapon: Licenses can only be granted to hunters. How could a company sell goods they can't own? --O u WTBsjrief-mich 12:14, September 28, 2012 (UTC)
 * Not. 4kant,6FRÅGOR??? 15:20, September 28, 2012 (UTC)
 * First off, Costello Enterprises and Kameron Armament aren't family operated. I'm the only member of the Costello family, and I'm so high up that I literally just chill at a desk all day. I don't know how many members of the Kameron Family are involved in the family business, but they own a corporation, and I have a feeling that they don't wait on a factory line putting guns together for a living. We're both megacorporations, and we sell to hunters, the police, and outside of Lovia. And if it really matters to you, we have licenses to hunt. — Beer.png <font color=#2E6FFD>Christopher Costello (<font color=#2E6FFD>Pikapi • <font color=#2E6FFD>Chat  • <font color=#2E6FFD>What's up ) 18:54, September 28, 2012 (UTC)
 * I'm sorry: the law says you have to obtain a license for every single gun you own. I think it's not workable to do that when you produce one single gun a day already... Therefore: you're company is illegal (contralegislative). --O u WTBsjrief-mich 07:53, September 29, 2012 (UTC)

Fine arts
There's no Fine Arts college or univeristy in Lovia. Shall we establish one??--George the Greek (talk) 17:35, September 28, 2012 (UTC)


 * Do you mean like visual arts or music? HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 17:54, September 28, 2012 (UTC)


 * I think we have a lot of higher-learning establishments for a small island nation. I'd say we need more preschools before we need any more colleges. — Beer.png <font color=#2E6FFD>Christopher Costello (<font color=#2E6FFD>Pikapi • <font color=#2E6FFD>Chat  • <font color=#2E6FFD>What's up ) 18:56, September 28, 2012 (UTC)

Message from our neighbor in the Indian Ocean
Elections have finished, results are there :P As almost everybody voted on KB-PVIR, it's quite boring but alright :P Here they are. Our coalition aim is KB-PVIR (center-rightist), Zootsieël Zènterkèrstener (social Christian), and Landjsbórspartieë (the farmers' party). Other possible partners include Vriehedliker Partie (liberal), Greun Mäöres (environmentalist), and Keizerlikpartieë (the emperor's party). Unique for these elections: users could actually vote if they were no MotC :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 14:22, September 30, 2012 (UTC)


 * Nice to see things moving on in Maores :D as I can't read dutch at all I found the graphs incredibily useful I must say, although I managed to work out that as you said it seems like a landslide victory. Kunarian (talk) 14:52, September 30, 2012 (UTC)
 * Hhaha, well, it's Limburgish è, not Dutch :P KB-PVIR didn't grow that much, but it's a merger of the two biggest parties KB and PVIR. I admit, it looks impressive though :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 15:03, September 30, 2012 (UTC)
 * Well, doesn't Limburgish have an even closer relationship to Dutch than Norwegian has to Swedish? I'd say you could at least get the jist of Limburgish if you knew Dutch. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 21:10, October 12, 2012 (UTC)

Elections
When do the elections start??--George the Greek (talk) 22:20, October 4, 2012 (UTC)

They begun a few days ago. 77topaz (talk) 01:00, October 5, 2012 (UTC)


 * Oh, where do we vote??--George the Greek (talk) 19:51, October 5, 2012 (UTC)
 * Here. 77topaz (talk) 20:09, October 5, 2012 (UTC)

Building contest
We already did a contest for the nicest towns, but how about one for the most beautiful building? Once we select one for Lovia I would also to do the same for Mäöreser, Libertan, Brunanter buildings and put the top results to head to head competition. HORTON11 : •  18:02, October 5, 2012 (UTC)

Link. --Semyon 18:06, October 5, 2012 (UTC)

Lovia
My first choice: the Hurbanova post office, such a picturesque building. HORTON11 : •  18:36, October 5, 2012 (UTC)
 * Yes, I like it very much as well :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 09:49, October 6, 2012 (UTC)

Mäöres
What about this one? :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 10:37, October 6, 2012 (UTC)

Mäöres only has ruins :P Perhaps the local pub in Zèntj-Iezerdrèch? --O u WTBsjrief-mich 10:40, October 6, 2012 (UTC)

Sorry
Sorry for my absence last two weeks. I had a busy period at school! Bart K (talk) 10:53, October 6, 2012 (UTC)
 * No problem, we all have our busy periods :) --O u WTBsjrief-mich 11:06, October 6, 2012 (UTC)

Idea
Why don't we create a list, where each user will write down his red links with a short descriprion of what's in his mind? Examples: In that way, other people can create those pages, according to the user's initial plan. Something like requested articles list.--George the Greek (talk) 11:10, October 7, 2012 (UTC)
 * John Peters (the article(s) in which the link exists): historian, member of CPL.nm, well-known rapper
 * Harrison Company (the article(s) in which the link exists): shoe company, the biggest in Lovia, building burnt in 2010.
 * In general that would be good, but in my case: searching for all those red links (perhaps more than a thousand? :P) and writing s short description will be as much work as simply creating all of them :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 11:58, October 7, 2012 (UTC)
 * That's indeed a problem :S But it is a good idea! 4kant,6FRÅGOR??? 12:02, October 7, 2012 (UTC)
 * Hmmm, that's right. We should give it a try, though. If necessary, don't list all of your red links. We could help you, too!--George the Greek (talk) 14:22, October 7, 2012 (UTC)
 * I'm a bit sceptical. If people don't create their own pages, why would they create others'? :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 14:28, October 7, 2012 (UTC)
 * Someone which hasn't got any red links (like me :P) could make them :P 4kant,6FRÅGOR??? 15:09, October 7, 2012 (UTC)
 * Sounds reasonable :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 15:29, October 7, 2012 (UTC)

This what you're looking for, perhaps? :P --Semyon 15:06, October 8, 2012 (UTC)


 * Yeah, but that list doesn't have those descriptions :P 4kant,6FRÅGOR??? 15:23, October 8, 2012 (UTC)
 * I know, but it's a good starting point for finding the redlinks in the first place, if anyone's interested in this (potentially gargantuan) project. :) --Semyon 17:21, October 9, 2012 (UTC)
 * I'm interested in perhaps fixing all my red links, but indeed, it's gonna take a lot of time... --O u WTBsjrief-mich 17:33, October 9, 2012 (UTC)

Another idea
I was thinking, why don't we make a sort of Champions League for wikination football teams? Wabba is working on the Libertan Leauge, Me and Topaz on the Brunanter 1st League and i'm sure it could renew interest in the LSCA and other footballing leagues. HORTON11 : •  17:07, October 8, 2012 (UTC)


 * Yes, but what about the idea for the IWO Games? Wabba The I (talk) 17:52, October 8, 2012 (UTC)
 * Nobody proposed any definitive sports list and people lost interest. But what do you think about this idea? HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 18:14, October 8, 2012 (UTC)
 * Hopefully we don't lose our interest for this :P 4kant,6FRÅGOR??? 19:04, October 8, 2012 (UTC)
 * It's only one sport so it should be much more manageable, plus easier to organize. Do you think you could make a page for the 2011-12 Insel league (at least just the table), that way we can determine which clubs would join (it would be like the champions league, where the top x clubs qualify). HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 20:09, October 8, 2012 (UTC)
 * Not bad idea, but in my opinion our league isn't fully organised.--George the Greek (talk) 21:49, October 8, 2012 (UTC)
 * Is therea link? But we shoudl work on the lovian league and make it like MLS but not too big.MMunson (talk) 22:28, October 8, 2012 (UTC)

I'm sorry. Mäöres has voted contra to new major sports events. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 16:24, October 9, 2012 (UTC)

Anyways Mäöres doen't have much in the way of football. It would be Brunant, Insel, Libertas and Lovia, and any other wikis that have teams. HORTON11 : •  16:36, October 9, 2012 (UTC)

Alright, you can't use the name IWO though in this case, but something like Wikination Champions League would do the trick as well :) --O u WTBsjrief-mich 16:47, October 9, 2012 (UTC)

It wouldn't be IWO affiliated. But what about ICC (Intercontinental Champions Cup), cause its more of a tournament than a league. HORTON11 : •  17:00, October 9, 2012 (UTC)


 * Four teams of each country (Insel, Lovia, Libertas and Brunant), sorted in four groups with each group have four teams (drawing of lots). Each club will play two times against each other. The first two of each group go through to the quarter-finals and then, there are semi-finals and the final. Maybe like that? Wabba The I (talk) 17:12, October 9, 2012 (UTC)


 * For the host of the final: I think Libertas is the best, because it is boring so we need something news.
 * For teams of each country: Brunant (best four teams of previous season), Libertas (best four teams of previous season), Insel (best four teams of previous season or just best for teams) and Lovia (best four teams)? Wabba The I (talk) 18:30, October 9, 2012 (UTC)
 * Yes, exactly like that. It would be over 2 legs except for the final. Now there are a few things:
 * Where do we hold the final?
 * How and who do we choose as the clubs? HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg •follow_me.PNG 17:18, October 9, 2012 (UTC)
 * Please cuold we also get a couple of Pintona teams like Bluehill United and Margrove Fc?MMunson (talk) 01:02, October 10, 2012 (UTC)
 * Pintona isn't a Wiki Nation.Wabba The I (talk) 11:59, October 10, 2012 (UTC)

I think it is, Wabba. See here. In that case since both Insel and Pintona have smaller teams/league it should be 2 clubs per country participating. But, we will need to have the squads for each team drawn up. HORTON11 : •  13:18, October 10, 2012 (UTC)

Maores should participate. Politics should not have influence on sports Pierlot McCrooke 15:19, October 10, 2012 (UTC)
 * Mäöres will not participate. The IWO Games were a big failure and we're no longer interested in setting up everything for nothing. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 16:01, October 10, 2012 (UTC)
 * The IWO Games weren't a failure. Just because we can't agree on the sports list, it is inactive Pierlot McCrooke 16:07, October 10, 2012 (UTC)
 * Mäöres doesn't really have a big footballing tradition (ie. clubs, stadiums). HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 16:11, October 10, 2012 (UTC)
 * I've btw posted a idea on the website of IWO Games Pierlot McCrooke 16:19, October 10, 2012 (UTC)
 * I'll get some Southern Arc teams set up. 77topaz (talk) 04:06, October 11, 2012 (UTC)

Algae planting
With Lovia being green and all I think we should plant algae around the country to add oxygen and remove carbon from the atmosphere. I haven't seen anyone else thinking of this, so I thought I may as well put the idea out there. Quarantine Zone (talk) 21:17, October 10, 2012 (UTC)


 * The CNP support this idea, however to what extent yet I shall not know until I look into it further than I have now. Kunarian (talk) 22:10, October 10, 2012 (UTC)


 * The MCCP is supporting the idea too. The CNP and MCCP should do a joint project to plant algae around Lovia.--Quarantine Zone (talk) 22:20, October 10, 2012 (UTC)


 * That's good! I enjoy working with other parties, especially in start-up. I think a joint project is a great idea and I think that if I can win the Sylvanian state elections (I need one more vote! Oos made it too interesting for me... :L) we can really push the idea there along with support from the New Green Party (Good to work with on such environmental issues and another new party). It's a good start for your party! Kunarian (talk) 22:39, October 10, 2012 (UTC)
 * @Quarantine: You should also read this and this; we can do a lot with those algae :P You've got CCPL's support. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 06:29, October 11, 2012 (UTC)
 * @Kunarian: I'm sorry :( Had to do it to bring some balance, and I'm sure Marcus is willing to cooperate with you as Deputy. I prefer stability and certainty above cronyism. If you turn out to be a good (Dep) Governor, I'll vote for you next time :) --O u WTBsjrief-mich 06:29, October 11, 2012 (UTC)
 * You've also got my support :) 4kant,6FRÅGOR??? 17:44, October 11, 2012 (UTC)
 * So how about an algae growth movement. We could start growing algae for energy, pollution control, greenhouse gas control, and possibly an export as fertilizer. We could build a national park for it too and call algae national park. Could the CCPL, CNP, and MCCP do a joint project on the movement? --Quarantine Zone (talk) 01:14, October 12, 2012 (UTC)
 * The NGP supports this (though all algae must be checked for safety). 77topaz (talk) 04:49, October 12, 2012 (UTC)
 * @Quarantine: NP is not a good idea, because it would be a Natural Park (so minimal disturbance by humans). For the rest, ! --O u WTBsjrief-mich 08:07, October 12, 2012 (UTC)
 * I can buy a land plot through TDC and use it for algae growth. We could also plant miniature algae pools instead of trees around a city, say Hurbanova, seeing as Oos, you are the informal mayor and that could benefit our cause. --Quarantine Zone (talk) 04:49, October 13, 2012 (UTC)
 * Well, mayor is no longer a political function. The Governor should decide, and to me it seems fair to wait until the elections are done :) The algae plants could be created north and south of Hurb. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 08:30, October 13, 2012 (UTC)

Another Green Idea: hydro, solar, and nuclear fusion plants
I was thinking that Lovia may need more electricity and the only power source we use is wind energy, and if you live next to windmills you know that windmills are loud and create large breezes, so I thought that maybe Lovia should add hydro-electric tidal plants, solar panels, and nuclear fusion. These would provide more power to Lovia without adding the breeze or sound and staying green. The nuclear fusion would provide enormous amounts of energy (more than fission even!) without the waste. First Lovia would need to receive funds though. Taiy ō Direct Current has made proposititions to start one, but is in need of assistance. --Quarantine Zone (talk) 22:35, October 10, 2012 (UTC)


 * Again you have the support of the CNP! Tidal and Solar are great ideas and would help develop the green side in Lovia (of course these still need to be backed up with more standard sources of electricity). However to fusion (coming out of character here) it hasn't yet been developed to a power generating scale and believe me when we get it to that point, I'm a fusion man through and through, but in Lovia we tend to stick to things invented or very very close to invention and this I think is a little too far off although (coming back into character) I might support a research team. :D Kunarian (talk) 22:44, October 10, 2012 (UTC)
 * solar plants.
 * tidal plants: we're in the middle of the ocean, tidal influence is very minimal in Lovia. Unfortunately, it will not be a very efficient method of producing energy.
 * Nuclear fusion... It's a bit early. America is currently experimenting with the first plant to - perhaps - be connected to the energy net. It surely is cleaner and less dangerous than nuclear fission, but I'd like to await the developments first. Also, CCPL has not yet voted on this issue. I'm not sure whether it is in our goal to go messing around with God's creation this way.
 * --O u WTBsjrief-mich 06:37, October 11, 2012 (UTC)
 * I support the CNP and CCPL, but i wanted a more conservative party Christian, and I wanted more education and educated government; thus, I created the the Meritocratic Christian Conservative Party. OK, I see why the tidal and fusion wouldn't necessarily work, but the solar is definitely an option. What about taking electricity straight from the ionosphere? --Quarantine Zone (talk) 01:16, October 12, 2012 (UTC)
 * Even more conservative than CCPL? Perhaps you should've joined RTP :P Anyway, ionosphere sounds interesting. I can't find anything about it. Could you explain how it would work or give us a link? --O u WTBsjrief-mich 08:10, October 12, 2012 (UTC)


 * I disagree with a lot of the RTP policies. I'm non-denominational; I like going green as long as it's not excessive; I believe that everyone can follow their religion and that everyone should respect each others religions regardless of whether they believe it or not; and finally I'm not a "traditional" Christian. I'm all for modern Christianity. As for the Ionosphere, here's an article form 2010, so this was when it started becoming more realistic. http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/08/100825185121.htm Nikola Tesla came up with the idea in the 19th century. --Quarantine Zone (talk) 19:47, October 12, 2012 (UTC)
 * @RTP: Hahaha, yeah, RTP is a quite an outsider :P Assuming there's something you don't like with CCPL, what makes you not join CCPL? :P
 * @ionosphere: Definitely something we should look at. Perhaps we could set up a research center? --O u WTBsjrief-mich 08:32, October 13, 2012 (UTC)
 * A research facility would work, also there are a few other ways to get energy that are green. These ways include Osmotic power and pumped storage power. They're perfect for Lovia because they both require a lot of water, and to answer why I haven't join the CCPL is because I think that health care should be private for almost all situations, and I'm not a pacifist. I support the military a lot and am very patriotic, but if the CCPL would allow the MCCP to become a section of the CCPL I could work with that. --Quarantine Zone (talk) 00:56, October 14, 2012 (UTC)
 * Hmm... I wouldn't support a privatised health care system. That would basically mean that only rich people get proper health care. 77topaz (talk) 07:04, October 14, 2012 (UTC)
 * Not necessarily, with the Bismark model all people get health care and it's private and non-government funded. You can look it up.  It's one of the four standard systems. --Quarantine Zone (talk) 18:36, October 14, 2012 (UTC)

@Quarantine: I'm not sure whether that would work out well :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 03:17, October 15, 2012 (UTC)

Redoing 2003-2007 Congresses
Does anyone else share the opinion that the 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006, and 2007 Congresses (which were not elected, instead simply made up) are fairly out of wack with the volatile and multi-party nature of Lovian politics? I propose that either the two major 2008 parties, the New Socialist Party and Progressive Centrist Party, be added to pre-2008 history, and that several more independents be added to represent the transition from mainly independents in 2008 into party politics in 2010, or the 2003 through 2006 Congresses be removed. What is the opinion of the other users? I am personally quite vexed by the unrealistic collapse of fake politics in 2007 following the death of King Arthur III and the strange transition into real politics and a majority of independents in Congress in 2008. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 01:11, October 11, 2012 (UTC)
 * . Political landslides can always happen during politically unstable times. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 03:18, October 11, 2012 (UTC)
 * . But not for 4 years, and all the parties from 2003-07 (except for the LCP) are not present in 2008 politics. Therefore the real parties from 2008 should be put into 2003-07. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 11:04, October 11, 2012 (UTC)

I don't think major reform is needed. My explanation: after the coronation of Dimitri I, the king played a strong role in politics (shown by his writing much of the new Constitution) and he held dialogue with party leaders about the creation of a less confrontational, party-dominated system. This, as well as the fact that almost all parties had extremely low approval rates due to infighting, resulted in the disbanding of most political parties and the retirement of most politicians. --Semyon 17:49, October 12, 2012 (UTC)
 * Sounds very well :) --O u WTBsjrief-mich 19:31, October 12, 2012 (UTC)
 * Why would King Arthur III have even started the Congress, then, if Lovia was so stable? You see, the collapse of parties makes no sense. I'm going to repost a revised version of this proposal that is easier to read, since it's already been buried under other discussions. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 21:18, October 12, 2012 (UTC)
 * He started Congress because of demands for democracy, so Lovia's stability at the time was not an issue. --Semyon 22:07, October 12, 2012 (UTC)
 * But then why wouldn't it have been started earlier? Especially starting something close to the end of your reign makes little sense. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 23:28, October 12, 2012 (UTC)
 * Perhaps he didn't trust his heir Dimitri? :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 08:33, October 13, 2012 (UTC)

Message for Seven and Clymene
I know there are still some people around with only two houses, I ask you, politely :P, to buy a third home in either Seven or Clymene, so we can get all Governors elected. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 03:22, October 11, 2012 (UTC)
 * I just bought one in Seven, but I now have three residencies. --Quarantine Zone (talk) 01:54, October 12, 2012 (UTC)

Does the deputy governor have the legal requirement as well? I don't recall such a thing for the deputies. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 02:08, October 12, 2012 (UTC)

Yes, unfortunately. Constitution: 'The candidate who received the second highest number of votes and at least three will become Deputy Governor of the state in which he or she participated in the state elections.' --Semyon 17:33, October 12, 2012 (UTC)
 * If I'm right, only Clymene needs dep votes in that case? --O u WTBsjrief-mich 19:29, October 12, 2012 (UTC)
 * I suppose. It'd be a shame to have George not become deputy even though he wanted to because no one knew him very well. Seven's different, because no one is running. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 21:06, October 12, 2012 (UTC)
 * Apparently, last year, even though he didn't have three votes, Marcus was elected. 77topaz (talk) 21:11, October 12, 2012 (UTC)
 * We could perhaps if there's consensus (everybody should agree) act as if he had three votes... --O u WTBsjrief-mich 08:34, October 13, 2012 (UTC)
 * Okay, George has three votes now. That means Clymene has a proper deputy. 77topaz (talk) 07:06, October 14, 2012 (UTC)
 * Yes :) --O u WTBsjrief-mich 11:27, October 14, 2012 (UTC)
 * Wait a minute... I am Deputy Governor of Clymene?--George the Greek (talk) 14:45, October 16, 2012 (UTC)
 * Yes! :) --Semyon 15:43, October 16, 2012 (UTC)

Help
Can somebody explain what's that major vote, etc in our elections?--George the Greek (talk) 21:29, October 11, 2012 (UTC)

They're part of the system of the federal elections (held around the year change). In the federal elections, people and their parties (multiple people from one party can stand) stand for congress, with the candidate with the most points becoming PM and everybody getting seats by how many points they got. Since all the candidates are in one "pool", if everyone had just one vote, people would just vote for themselves and nothing interesting would happen. Instead, everyone has three votes to "give": a major vote, a minor vote and a support vote. A major vote is worth three points, a minor vote is worth two points and a support vote one. None two or three of them can be given to the same person (though you can vote for yourself), and you can choose not to vote any of your votes. 77topaz (talk) 04:44, October 12, 2012 (UTC)

Drug use in Lovia
I have become aware that Lovia has minimal policies on regulation of drug use (legal or illegal). Some parties I'm sure would be for things like medical marijuana and/ or smoking tobacco and others would be against both. Also there is minimal regulation on the selling of alcohol and over the counter drugs. I don't know how if any laws around these topics would be passed (Amendments or Federal Law?). I for one am against the use of any marijuana, tobacco, and nicotine and think that these drugs should be made illegal seeing as Lovia doesn't seem to have very large uses of them. They hurt the health of citizens and can lower the prestige of Lovia. --Quarantine Zone (talk) 01:30, October 12, 2012 (UTC)

There are actually very high regulations on tobacco, alcohol and guns, yet none on drugs, including marijuana. Personally, I think that the regulations on guns, alcohol, and tobacco should be weakened and instead mostly taxed. Same thing with soft drugs, including marijuana (hard drugs should have much stronger regulation). While drugs may hurt the health of citizens, it should be the choice of the citizens on whether they want to do them -- the government has no place in prohibiting materials just because they are harmful to health. Instead, we should regulate and tax them. We have seen how much of a disaster that Prohibition and the current Drug War were and we have no reason to repeat their failures here. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 02:06, October 12, 2012 (UTC)

I agree with TM. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 08:12, October 12, 2012 (UTC)

Yes. Me too. Wabba The I (talk) 14:33, October 12, 2012 (UTC)

Password
Guys, I'n sorry but I lost my password. Here's a confirmation on wikipedia. From now on I will use account Benopat2 and I hope not to loose it again :-) Benopat2 (talk) 13:19, October 12, 2012 (UTC)
 * Die wönjer aer d'welt èngna oet :P Anyway, welcome back! I can also confirm you told me you'd lost your password a few months ago. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 13:23, October 12, 2012 (UTC)
 * Ben, if you put in an e-mail when you created your original account, you can get a new password sent to your e-mail. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 21:03, October 12, 2012 (UTC)
 * No, at the time it was not necessary so I didn't do it. I learned my lesson now :-) Benopat2 (talk) 09:24, October 13, 2012 (UTC)

A new notice of absence
I'll be gone from tomorrow until next Saturday so I won't be active then. 4kant,6FRÅGOR??? 18:42, October 12, 2012 (UTC)
 * Alright, assuming you're taking your herfstvakantie, have fun :) --O u WTBsjrief-mich 19:31, October 12, 2012 (UTC)
 * Assuming that means 'autumn holiday/fall vacation,' you're lucky. :'( I have no holiday until Christmas. --Semyon 22:46, October 12, 2012 (UTC)
 * Me neither :( It's only elementaries/high schools/colleges. Universities don't have autumn holidays. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 08:36, October 13, 2012 (UTC)

Pre 2008 politics
Here's my proposal on pre 2008 politics:
 * State governments consist of a governor and a state court before the 2007 constitution.
 * All national affairs are managed by the King before the 2007 constitution.
 * States are powerful compared to post-2010 State Reform time.
 * There is no national Congress until the first elections in 2008, after the approval of the 2007 constitution made by then-prince Dimitri.
 * The 2008 Congress has been set in stone, with only independents and the Progressive Center Party being in it (NSP had no seats due to being founded later).
 * Therefore, most political parties before 2008 should be regionalist, limited to one or two states (Oceana Christians, 7 Regionalist Party, etc.).

Condensing: There should be no national politics before 2008. Before 2008, state courts and governors exist to manage the states, while the monarch manages the nation as a whole, which basically means solving disputes between states and foreign policy, as states are much stronger at that point. The Congress is first created by the 2007 Constitution. Political parties across the nation are still few by the elections, and mostly form during the actual course of those elections, until becoming rather strong and organized by the beginning of 2010. State courts and all the things from the state-democracy only era continue, but due to a much stronger federal government, become less relevant, until many of the offices of the states, such as the state courts and state police, are abolished in the 2010 State Reform and the governor term is reduced to one year from two years. Then, following the 2007-2010 transitionary period, the federal government is the much more complex section of the government. The chaos of the current political system can be explained by the fact that the federal government is still relatively new in Lovia. The 2003-2007 congresses will be removed by this proposal. This might mean that some of the parties from that era, especially Freedom First and King's Party, will need to be deleted as they would have been elected into office in 2008 realistically. Thoughts? —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 21:54, October 12, 2012 (UTC)

I'm rather contra deleting all that information completely. I also don't like the unrealistic idea that the monarch ran everything on a national level, so I would like at least some form of council up to that point. My proposal: King's Party (oh, I hate that name) will be replaced everywhere by PDP, and F1 will be a general centre-right coalition of independents, rather than a actual party. --Semyon 22:24, October 12, 2012 (UTC)
 * Ironically, since I'm now defending it, this. --Semyon 22:26, October 12, 2012 (UTC)
 * You're defending the old info, or my proposal? In addition, independents were rare from 2003-2007. Then, in 2008, suddenly over half of Congress was independent. It is like Jeffwang: it makes no sense. I can understand that Rick Frances suggested Congress in 2001, but why would it not have been suggested earlier? And why would the old King Arthur III, having ruled for almost 50 years, be willing to change the current system? I'd agree to a council (advisory maybe?), perhaps elected every two years until Dimitri's Congress went into effect. I also find that KP changing into PDP rather unrealistic, as KP's main point was monarchism, and PDP was neutral on monarchic issues. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 23:21, October 12, 2012 (UTC)
 * It even has an exclamation point in parentheses after the statement that none of the parties with a seat in Congress in 2007 were elected, showing that it doesn't make sense. ;) —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 02:44, October 13, 2012 (UTC)
 * - I'm contra deletion of our history. We could simply adjust everything slightly. F.e. say that I ran for Oceana Christians instead of independent. We could say Lovia was a loose confederation and not until 2001 that it became a centralised nation. The states were simply the legislative bodies. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 09:14, October 13, 2012 (UTC)
 * The only thing I'm proposing to delete are the 2003-2007 Congresses and perhaps a couple of the parties that were part of them. Oos, what I'm saying it that Lovia would have been a confederation UNTIL the passing of the 2007 Constitution, which led to the first election of a national Congress in 2008. Also, the Congress page you guys keep citing is what makes no sense. It's okay up until the Transition section, where unrealisticness takes over. Stability does not suddenly turn into chaos. We should start with chaos on the national level. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 13:15, October 13, 2012 (UTC)

. No history changing. Though I agree the Lovian history has a bit of flaws like not having a indigenous tribe Pierlot McCrooke 14:55, October 13, 2012 (UTC)
 * We already did change history to have these unrealistic congresses, Pierlot. ;) —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 15:10, October 13, 2012 (UTC)
 * Well, there weren't details made up about congress history before 2010. Previously, it was only stated that congress already existed before the wiki was founded. I actually think that dimitri once intended that congress was founded at the beginning of the colonization of Lovia. At least he posted a picture of the first Inauguration day, in 1873 Pierlot McCrooke 15:23, October 13, 2012 (UTC)
 * It seems that it was not. I still think that Congress should only be formed by the 2007 Constitution, the first real Constitution in Lovia, I believe. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 15:32, October 13, 2012 (UTC)

@TM: I understood that already, but I simply don't agree with unnecessary chopping. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 16:19, October 13, 2012 (UTC)
 * Chopping as in removal of content? —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 16:31, October 13, 2012 (UTC)
 * Why 2008 and not 2007? The wiki started in 2007 if I'm not mistaken? Wouldn't the death of Dimi's predecessor be the "turning point" in Lovian history, rather then the year 2008? The glorious First Consul of Rome (talk) 18:49, October 13, 2012 (UTC)
 * Because the elections in 2007 would have occurred before the death of the previous king. Dimitri becomes king later in the year, and the first elections are in January 2008. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 21:21, October 13, 2012 (UTC)

@TM: indeed. Some small adjustments should work out just as well. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 08:10, October 14, 2012 (UTC)
 * I really don't see a way to keep the fake Congresses and explain the sudden fall of every party in 2007/2008. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 12:54, October 14, 2012 (UTC)
 * You don't understand it. The sudden fall will be gone if we adjust the parties in the fake Congresses and in the 2008 elections. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 12:58, October 14, 2012 (UTC)
 * I don't like changing the real Congresses. 2008 was a real Congress, not something made-up like the previous five before it. And that also doesn't explain how the stability and F1 dominance from 2003-2006 failed so quickly. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 13:06, October 14, 2012 (UTC)
 * In 2007, F1 had already shrunken 4 seats, leaving 3. So, the party being erased from the political landscape isn't that unexpected and sudden as you say. It is also not that special, in the Netherlands f.e. LPF went from 26 to 8 to 0 in three years time. Same story's happening with the Christian democrats after years of stability: . --O u WTBsjrief-mich 13:20, October 14, 2012 (UTC)
 * All this debate leads me to want to write a history book on the wikia (probably published through Kane Publishing) about how this political shake-up happened. And also I think the current way it is leaves plenty of room for interesting ideas and thesis's about how it did happen. :) Kunarian (talk) 13:28, October 14, 2012 (UTC)
 * Hhaha, yeah, it's about time a book on the wiki's written :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 13:32, October 14, 2012 (UTC)
 * To be honest I've been thinking about doing it since this conversation started, I just haven't got round to it, I will soon though and look at my shiny new signature. (bit off topic but I just wanted to say, although I may swap round the Hoffmann and Kunarian) :L Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 13:46, October 14, 2012 (UTC)
 * It's nice :P The image wouldn't work on other wikis though :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 13:48, October 14, 2012 (UTC)
 * No, however this is practically my only wiki at the moment :L Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 13:53, October 14, 2012 (UTC)
 * Haha :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 13:57, October 14, 2012 (UTC)
 * Hmm... indeed, you've rather gone inactive on Conworlds and Althist. Though I do see you played on PMII for a bit as Aztec, so you must have been a bit active there in the last two months. 77topaz (talk) 19:20, October 14, 2012 (UTC)

That was because they blocked a popular social security bill. And that doesn't explain the collapse of the King's Party as well. LPF doesn't count because they were centralized around Pim Fortuyn, who was assassinated. LPF was then replaced by parties like the PVV. The problem with being erased is that F1 (and all the others parties except maybe the PDP) were not replaced. Instead we just have a bunch of independents in 2008. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 15:15, October 14, 2012 (UTC)
 * Why can't we get the F1 guys assassinated then? :P The independents, of which at least two were already member of previous congresses, but were no longer connected to the political party. So there already is some form of continuation. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 16:59, October 14, 2012 (UTC)
 * Because they weren't. I don't see why we can't just continue with the old governor-only system until the actual Constitution is passed. After all, we didn't have one until Prince Dimitri wrote one. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 17:36, October 14, 2012 (UTC)
 * I'm afraid we'll end up with a vote here :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 18:10, October 14, 2012 (UTC)

Also: it's not just the Congress pages that should be updated: also persons and political parties. I would have to get to a new explanation how OSB didn't get independence while they were in charge. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 09:40, October 19, 2012 (UTC)


 * That's particularly easy to explain. The Royal Council and King simply wouldn't allow it. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 21:32, October 20, 2012 (UTC)

SVG
Hey, is anyone here skilled enough with SVG etc. to create the flag of the Southern Arc Islands? The specifications are on the page. 77topaz (talk) 22:41, October 12, 2012 (UTC)
 * I can't help. I made the MCCP symbol on paint, haha. --Quarantine Zone (talk) 04:53, October 13, 2012 (UTC)
 * Good day, newcomers!

What did I miss?
I've been away for ages now and I wonder what I've missed during my absence. Anything awesome happen or what? Seems like we have some newcomers too? Awesome! :) The glorious First Consul of Rome (talk) 18:55, October 13, 2012 (UTC)
 * Well politically when you left me with one seat and a little political base to start off with, the CNP have built up the strength to challenge the incumbent governor for that position in the state of Sylvania. So I've benefitted off of your assistance. However generally politically we've had stability, Labour supported some of the Occupy protests that went on in Lovia but they lost out to the Liberate Lovia group I started. We've made progress towards a more organised police, we've begun developing a proper tax system and we've been trying to get more power to the states. Generally though no instability like governments of the past and a lot more co-operation to get basic yet important things done. Kunarian (talk) 19:11, October 13, 2012 (UTC)
 * And thank you for your vote! hopefully it'll tip the tables to bring a CNP victory home! :D Kunarian (talk) 19:12, October 13, 2012 (UTC)
 * I may only have left you with little to fall back on, but you have made me proud, brother! Very proud. I voted for you because you are clearly the best man for the job. I see great things in your future and a great political career. And I'm talking about expierence here, because I have been the Prime Minister of this great nation for several months. Good luck and godspeed! The glorious First Consul of Rome (talk) 19:32, October 13, 2012 (UTC)
 * @TMV: Hahaha, perhaps it would be better to no longer refer to your premmyship as it wasn't really the best period of the wiki :P But that was not your fault as all the childish lefties left us when we had a rightist government... --O u WTBsjrief-mich 08:15, October 14, 2012 (UTC)
 * I wouldn't describe them as 'childish lefties,' but it does annoy me when Marcus or someone says 'oh the CCPL government failed so badly.' Sure it did, the PM was unjustly taken to court eight days after his inauguration. Random aside: hahaha, what Oos just said reminds me of a book I had to read for my history course: 'To this day, that year is looked upon as unhappy, and hateful to all good men... hence it has been agreed by all who have written about the reigns of the kings, to abolish the memory of those perfidious monarchs.' Though I don't think we should delete everything on the wiki to do with the Donia PMship. :P --Semyon 14:53, October 14, 2012 (UTC)
 * Hahah, that's the radical way :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 16:56, October 14, 2012 (UTC)
 * Radical times ask for radical solutions. And the Donia Clan has always been the most radical(est?) of all Lovian families and political factions. But we shouldn't meddle with our nations recent history as it's written and stone and meant to stay for eternity. Let it remain, forever, a reminder to all young, hopeful presidential candidates: that this is NOT the way to go. And for the Judges of our nation, to leave alone promising statesmen and cut them some slack. At least the first few weeks, unless they don't want them to get anything done. But maybe that's what they where aiming for: to get rid of the "dangerous" rightist leader and replace him with a sheepish and weak leftist sissy-boy who would do their bidding. Oh, such ifs life! But we will never forget. And it was fun while it lasted. It's nice to be able to say to people with a big mouth: "I used to be the PM... so what if it was only a few days. Big deal. What did YOU accomplish, biatch?" The glorious First Consul of Rome (talk) 19:35, October 14, 2012 (UTC)
 * Don't forget about Bernd, he isn't radical at all. BTW you should check out the expanded pge of his wife. HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 19:44, October 14, 2012 (UTC)
 * Every family has it's black sheep, Horton! In a family as scandalous and badass as the Donia family, the chillest, most liberal and progressive dude is naturally the black sheep. That's why he left for Carrington. The glorious First Consul of Rome (talk) 19:54, October 14, 2012 (UTC)
 * What a rebel. :P --Semyon 22:09, October 14, 2012 (UTC)

Seven deputy
I just had an idea on how to get a deputy in Seven: Why don't have a vote with all the active users that are not going to become a deputy or governor that want to be on the ballot? Say A-I all got elected, but J-M still were interested in a position. Then we would hold a vote (either vote J, K, L, or M) on which of those remaining become deputy governor of Seven. J-M would have to live in Seven, though. Thoughts? —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 13:01, October 14, 2012 (UTC)
 * --O u WTBsjrief-mich 13:03, October 14, 2012 (UTC)
 * Good idea! that way we also get people interested in other states that they may not have thought about standing in too. Kunarian (talk) 13:29, October 14, 2012 (UTC)
 * Not very many people live in Seve, though, it seems. :P 77topaz (talk) 19:22, October 14, 2012 (UTC)
 * Seven is probably our best developed state in many ways however you're right it lacks users, personally I'd like it if we could get Users to choose a first house not in Sylvania (and not in Noble city for that) but in less user populated areas like Seven. Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 19:31, October 14, 2012 (UTC)
 * I'm and maybe I can become the deputy in Seven. Although it may be a smarter move to elect one of the active newcomers so they can gain expierence and have some fun. They need every motivation they can get to stay, for the sake of our wiki's activity and future survival. And if this newcomer also happens to be a RIGHTIST newcomer, all the better! :) The glorious First Consul of Rome (talk) 19:49, October 14, 2012 (UTC)
 * I would run for Dep. Gov., and I happen to be a right wing newcomer. I haven't gotten a political position yet, and my party (Meritocratic Christian Conservative Party) has no representation in the government, though I'm thinking of having it become a section of the CCPL. --Quarantine Zone (talk) 01:58, October 15, 2012 (UTC)

Archive
The forum sections are too many. Maybe we should archive previous sections.--George the Greek (talk) 18:14, October 14, 2012 (UTC)

Seconded. 77topaz (talk) 23:23, October 19, 2012 (UTC)

Thirded. But seriously if nobody else notices I might make Oos aware of our concerns or just archive it myself. Hoffmann Kunarian TALK 23:28, October 19, 2012 (UTC)

Seconded? Thirded?? Sorry, but I don't understand...--George the Greek (talk) 22:14, October 24, 2012 (UTC)

It means we support your opinion. :) Hoffmann Kunarian TALK 22:47, October 24, 2012 (UTC)

Close of state elections
Check TNCT for more details. :) --Semyon 22:27, October 14, 2012 (UTC)

I believe Marcus still wanted to vote in Kings. Also, I think we should add in some fake candidacies for realism. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 23:25, October 14, 2012 (UTC)


 * I do believe that most districts still would have been won by the major candidates, however yes throw in a few minor candidates to make things realistic. :) Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 23:30, October 14, 2012 (UTC)
 * Nobody ran against Semyon o.0 I should have done it and voted for myself to get Deputy Governor. --Quarantine Zone (talk) 23:50, October 14, 2012 (UTC)
 * Well, candidacies has closed by the time you joined. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 01:32, October 15, 2012 (UTC)

Guess what guys? MMunson just changed his vote in Kings from me to Wabba. Guess I lose! (read: wtf MMunson...) —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 01:32, October 15, 2012 (UTC)


 * MMunsons never been politcally stable, honestly I do like voters behind me that can vote for me with conviction. Also technically they can't change their vote as it's past the closing time at the polls, we should probably have a five day revote in Kings so that active users choose who wins. Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 01:37, October 15, 2012 (UTC)
 * Quarantine just changed his vote to me. Thank you very much to him. It's back to needing a recount. Oh, and the polling actually stops in about 6 hours, because it stops at midnight Lovian time. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 01:49, October 15, 2012 (UTC)

@TM: Yes, Bart and I also decided on giving a few percentages to OSB. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 03:15, October 15, 2012 (UTC)

@TM: I know there were still people who want to vote. Hence I was careful to state that they were 'preliminary results.' :D Anyway, we're going to need a recount now. --Semyon 09:36, October 15, 2012 (UTC)

Recount
Just in case anyone's unclear - recount is just IC code for revote. :P Anyway, we are going to need two more elections, one in Kings and one in Seven. There are a few options: Any thoughts? --Semyon 10:01, October 15, 2012 (UTC)
 * In Kings, we could either restart the elections completelely (including candidacies), restart voting, or simply keep them open another week.
 * In Seven, the only user who wants to be deputy is QZ. I'm quite happy with that, if no-one else is interested. 77topaz would be a possibility, but he technically isn't a resident of Seven. Obviously if someone else wants the post we'll have to have an election.
 * I'm happy with me being deputy :) and in Kings, I think we should leave them open for another week, and if that proves inconclusive then re-nominate and re-vote; if the results end the same way they did in the re-vote then we could have all of Lovia vote on the governor of Kings. --Quarantine Zone (talk) 20:56, October 15, 2012 (UTC)
 * Well now that elections in Kings have been resolved I guess we don't need to do any re-voting, but I think that an amendment would be a good idea that states how we deal with ties. --Quarantine Zone (talk) 19:59, October 16, 2012 (UTC)
 * Agree with QZ (damn Limburgish keyboard which lacks "q"...) --O u WTBsjrief-mich 20:11, October 16, 2012 (UTC)

Military Academy
We should establish a Miltary Academy, don't you think? Let's call it the Royal Military Academy.--George the Greek (talk) 09:28, October 15, 2012 (UTC)
 * I propose some possible locations:

--George the Greek (talk) 09:42, October 15, 2012 (UTC)
 * 1) Noowet Grasslands
 * 2) Overbanken
 * 3) King's Gardens (Federal Property at 2 Dimitri Street)
 * 4) Trading Quarter (There are 4 Federal Properties)
 * Establishing it in Oceana is a bad idea, considering its turbulent past. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 12:40, October 15, 2012 (UTC)
 * That's true, but I believe a military academy shouldhave some space.--George the Greek (talk) 12:58, October 15, 2012 (UTC)
 * I like the idea but it's a bit impractical if we have no military (and Brunant does have a military which justifies its academy), in Lovia a military academy would probably provide (at the most) for the Royal Guard, personally I'd prefer it if we had a paramilitary or actual military that this academy would provide for before we build it. When that's done I think building it just outside Noble city would make for a fantastic hamlet (of course probably as a part of a much larger institute of universities) and this way it would fit with my education expansion policy. Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 15:02, October 15, 2012 (UTC)

Do you mean something along these lines? HORTON11 : •  13:12, October 15, 2012 (UTC)


 * I didn't read it all, but yes, sth like that!--George the Greek (talk) 14:22, October 15, 2012 (UTC)
 * I think it would be a good idea to incorporate a Police Academy in it - or leave out the military part if we can't get that fixed. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 16:56, October 15, 2012 (UTC)
 * I think that if I get this education expansion going that it'll definitely include a Police Academy, I mean officers need to be well trained eh? on the matter of a Military Academy... I think it's one to sit on the fence with for the moment. Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 17:05, October 15, 2012 (UTC)

ICC
I already started a page on the Intercontinental Champions Cup, so check it out. Wabba, is this how you wanted to do the group stages? HORTON11 : •  12:57, October 15, 2012 (UTC)

I've set up some teams from the Southern Arc Islands: Arc City Central FC and New Cardiff United. 77topaz (talk) 05:44, October 16, 2012 (UTC)

New' round here
Hey, I'm new around here and I need some great tips for starting off my 'wikicareer'. Thanks. Happy65 (Talk)

btw, how do I get a house around here? Do I have to apply? Do I need to be a citizen?. ~Happy65


 * Well tips... there isn't a right way to start a wikicareer, I mean most people have a hobby or two and a career on this wiki, I mean my hobbies are to do with books, economics and soon it'll also be board and computer games and my career is being the leader of the CNP where I recently won the position of Governor for Sylvania. And sorry for the lack of other people replying you seem to have caught us in a downtime. :L And to get a house you simply need to choose one then ask to buy it, to be a citizen you need 50 worthwhile edits, a house and a name for your personal character. Hope this helps! Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 18:10, October 15, 2012 (UTC)


 * Thanks, do I request a house to you or the governor of the state? Happy65 (Talk)
 * Well most houses can be brought (as in you change the FOR SALE bit to a link to your person's name) unless they are owned by a property company, however you won't find many. It's a good idea to ask the governor of the state you're planning to buy a house in about purchasing, as it can avoid problems arising. Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 18:33, October 15, 2012 (UTC)

Drugs, alcohol, and fire arms revisited
I posted a topic on this earlier but I would like to see what other peoples views are on the topic above, specifically on regulation, taxation, use and obtain-ability. I.E. for drugs: policies on tobacco, nicotine, marijuana, over dosage, and hard drugs. Alcohol: taxing for the most part here. Fire arms: Automatic guns, and age for hunting. --Quarantine Zone (talk) 20:16, October 16, 2012 (UTC)
 * CCPL viewpoints: less strict rules on tobacco and alcohol, stricter rules on marijuna and hard drugs. Fire arms: keep the current regulations (if there's no age indicated yet, it should of course be added). --O u WTBsjrief-mich 20:35, October 16, 2012 (UTC)

Should probably post MCCP views: --Quarantine Zone (talk) 01:47, October 17, 2012 (UTC)
 * Hard drugs: Illegal
 * Soft drugs (including nicotine and tobacco): Illegal
 * legal drugs: Ovder-dosage should be legal
 * Alcohol: Taxed to keep the drinking level low, but still easily accessible to people who are 21 years of age.
 * Fire arms: Hunting licenses should be obtainable by anyone that is 10 or older (many people who are younger than 18 hunt). Hand guns should require licenses that require people to be 21 years of age. Other fire arms (target rifles) should be obtainable by anyone who is 18 or older, and automatic rifles should be illegal except for the defense departments. Pellet and BB guns should not be fire arms; people should have to be 16 to purchase them.

LDP views: So lemme see if I got this straight... your party sees nothing wrong with 16 year olds smoking weed but they can't drink a beer untill they're 20? That seems rather illogical to me. Wouldn't it be smarter to make a distinction between light alcoholic beverages such as beer and the heavier ones with a higher alcohol percentage (spirits)? The glorious First Consul of Rome (talk) 07:50, October 17, 2012 (UTC)
 * Hard drugs: Illegal.
 * Soft drugs: Legal, regulated, taxed. Must be 16+ to purchase or use.
 * Marijuana: Legal, regulated, taxed. Must be 16+ to purchase or use. Equal to Tobacco in regulation.
 * Tobacco: Legal, regulated, taxed. Must be 16+ to purchase or use. Equal to Marijuana in regulation.
 * Alcohol: Legal, regulated, taxed. Must be 16+ to purchase or use less alcoholic beverages. Must be 20+ to purchase or use spirits or other strong alcoholic beverages.
 * Firearms: Legal, regulated. Must be 20+ to purchase or use "stronger" guns, 12+ for "weaker" guns. Should be easier to get a license, and hunting should not be the only reason. Automatic weapons illegal.
 * What do people think the age of majority should be? —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 02:30, October 17, 2012 (UTC)
 * Good point. I was thinking about spirits when I wrote that. (fixed) —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 11:04, October 17, 2012 (UTC)

Alright, let's orden it: It has been shown that illegalizing alcohol from 16-21 only shows a reverse function: alcohol is accepted as a drug in Western societies, youth massively goes stealing alcohol from elderly people because it's "tough" to drink oneself into a coma (why: you're doing something illegal that is to be done easily). --O u WTBsjrief-mich 08:25, October 17, 2012 (UTC)
 * Hard drugs: illegal.
 * Soft drugs: illegal.
 * Marijuana: illegal.
 * Tobacco: 16+, light extra taxation.
 * Alcohol (less than 3%): fully legal.
 * Alcohol (less than 5%): 16+, no extra taxation.
 * Alcohol (less than 15%) 16+, light extra taxation.
 * Alcohol (more than 15%): 18+, light extra taxation.
 * Firearms: all firearms 18+.
 * Age of majority/consent: 18+.
 * Age of gay consent: 21+.

I seem to be experiencing a bug. :P The "bottom bar" doesn't open as usual (automatically), and when clicked just takes me to the top of the page. This means I'll have to type in "?action=unwatch" in the URL instead of just clicking the "Following" button. Strangely, though, I can see the bar right now, while editing. Maybe it will reappear when I publish, maybe not. 77topaz (talk) 08:43, October 17, 2012 (UTC)
 * Perhaps you should switch to monobook, we don't have a bottom bar :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 08:56, October 17, 2012 (UTC)
 * Sorry, I have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. :P --Semyon 09:58, October 17, 2012 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I think he's using the wikia skin. I don't know about that bar either, but I guess it's one of those new features that doesn't work :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 10:05, October 17, 2012 (UTC)
 * He is. The bottom bar basically replaces all the edit and history buttons at the top in Monobook, and lets you add links to Special pages in the drop down menu (-_-). —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 11:04, October 17, 2012 (UTC)

Also, you guys release that marijuana is roughly equal to tobacco in health consequences? Additionally, you smoke them both, et cetera. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 11:05, October 17, 2012 (UTC)
 * Yes, I do. The difference is that far more people are dependent on tobacco and it has a far bigger influence on society. Although ideally tobacco should be illegalized, the effect would be simply to cause users to purchase it illegally, rather than discouraging use. With marijuana, by contrast, the main problem is with people starting use rather than people who already use it; therefore illegalization is effective, because it discourages most people from trying it out. Admittedly some people are attracted by the fact cannabis is illegal, but it's probably fair to say that's not the general trend. I hope what I've written makes sense, because it is a subtle distinction. --Semyon 11:43, October 17, 2012 (UTC)
 * Just a little note: why is the age of "gay consent" put at 21 and the regular age of consent at 18? That could be explained by some as discrimination, unless there is a good reason for this. Another distinction I'd like to make is for the regular age of consent: would it not be silly to criminalize small age differences? For example, in other nations, you can be imprisoned as a 19 year-old for sleeping with a 16-year old. However, this seems unreasonable so we could allow such relations if the age-difference between the two partners is no more then four years (I believe that's the current British system). Your thoughts? The glorious First Consul of Rome (talk) 11:00, October 19, 2012 (UTC)
 * The four-year thing indeed seems reasonable to me, though I must say that 14 is still very early.. Perhaps make it a two-year age difference. About gay consent, I don't see why that's discrimination... It's just giving them some time to make a decision. Allowing them to make a careful balance before they regret to have broken God's laws. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 11:25, October 19, 2012 (UTC)
 * Makes sense. We can also make a case for the possible health-problems that can arise from homosexual activity, and their usually promiscuous and dangerous lifestyles. Plenty of reasons to make this distinction. Statistics don't lie... nor does AIDS. And yes, 14 years is too young, but imagine a girl is 16\17 and her boyfriend is 20, I don't see that as such a horrible thing he could be punished for it. We need to be careful with the "statutory rape" thing, IMO. The glorious First Consul of Rome (talk) 11:41, October 19, 2012 (UTC)
 * Yes, I agree. I'd keep the official consent age at 18, but "gedoog" (how Dutch do you want it è? :P) 16 and 17 as well. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 11:46, October 19, 2012 (UTC)

back
Hi guys! I just found another Wikia wiki and immediately thought of Lovia. Hopefully i'll stay a bit longer this time. :) Good to see time won elections! congrats to all. Anyway, what's been going on? What have i missed? Daembrales (talk) 00:25, October 18, 2012 (UTC)
 * Let's hope so, Daembrales! You are certainly more then welcome. The glorious First Consul of Rome (talk) 11:54, October 19, 2012 (UTC)

Indeed, welcome back! You missed the election results. You can read them in the Noble City Times :) --O u WTBsjrief-mich 11:59, October 19, 2012 (UTC)

History of the states
I know there's been some discussion about pre-2008 politics recently, as well as the role of the states, so here's an interpretation of how the states came to be, which hopefully you'll like enough to accept it into the official history of Lovia, and will perhaps explain some unanswered questions. Here goes.

Arthur I's original plan was for Lovia to be a strongly centralized state, with an official language (either English or Dutch) and a homogenized population, which might perhaps eventually be able to apply to become a US state. This plan didn't work out, mostly because people of different nationalities tended to stick together and keep their own culture, and the king wasn't very successful in establishing his authority. For instance, some local leaders were able to muster their own police forces which were much larger and more loyal than the king's. After his death in 1887, however, his son pursued a much more pragmatic policy, giving away legal power to several local leaders in exchange for their allegiance, for example to the Springhorses and to the early Chinese settlers of Clymene (notably not to Nikolai Sharapov who refused to deal with the Lovians). Kings and Sylvania remained under the personal control of the King. Unfortunately, this approach too failed after about ten years, for a number of reasons; conflict between the mainly Dutch-speaking population of Kings who wanted self-rule from the mainly English-speakers of Sylvania, conflict between the Americans and Eastern Europeans in Collinia, as well as disputes over territorial boundaries all over the country. After some unrest, almost a hundred local leaders met with the King in 1905 in NC to sign a document giving away further legal powers. Five areas were formed, each with a dominant language and culture. Over time, obviously, almost all of Lovia became Anglophone, some areas (such as Kings) faster than others (such as Oceana). Nevertheless, I think this explains well why so many communities, which are culturally and linguistically very different, exist across Lovia. --Semyon 15:38, October 18, 2012 (UTC)
 * Sylvania - English speakers, mostly Americans.
 * Kings - Dutch speakers, from the Netherlands and Flanders. This was opposed by the fairly large Anglophone minority, particularly in Newhaven, then a small village. To pacify them, it was agreed NH would become the capital of the state.
 * Oceana, which would be dominated almost exclusively by the Slovaks and Poles. In exchange for the Americans' loss of influence, Sylvania received some key Collinian territory, particularly around TV.
 * Clymene - Chinese speakers.
 * Seven, where the main parties (Kinley and NK) refused to compromise. In the end the declaration simply stated, rather vaguely, 'all groups shall share in the responsibility of governing.' In practice, virtually all governors were from Kinley, and Novosevensk shortly after retreated back into isolation and autarky.
 * I like it very much, thanks! :) --O u WTBsjrief-mich 15:56, October 18, 2012 (UTC)
 * I think that the Chinese in Clymene would have been a rather small minority. Chinese immigration to N. America was extremely limited, and the few that could afford the crossing would move on to San Francisco or Vancouver. What I was thinking, though, was that there would be some sort of gold (or silver) rush in in Clymene (1890s), attracting Anglo-Americans, Sylvanians and perhaps some Chinese in the US, many which would go back due to alsmost no gold. Many Americans and a few Chinses would eventually stay. HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 16:17, October 18, 2012 (UTC)
 * I don't actually agree with anything you've said (sorry :P). Chinese immigration to the Americas was not extremely limited, as Wikipedia will tell you, at least not until US immigration restrictions in 1882. It seems rather likely that Lovia would have become a popular destination instead, in the face of these restrictions. I know you don't like the idea of Clymene having a Chinese population (why not, btw?) but it's well integrated into the site, and even though you are governor you kind of have to deal with it. --Semyon 17:24, October 18, 2012 (UTC)

I really like this idea, considering that I've recently been looking into the complex politics of the wars of the roses (which deals a lot with trouble centralising and local leaders disobeying the kings of that time) I really think this'll add an extra spice to the history books. I have some good ideas about the centralisation within pre-Sylvania and conflicts between the eastern Europeans and Americans. Also even if the states were made and formed in 1905, there still would have been the remnants of the local leaders allies that weren't on the winning side that needed mopping up, definitely something interesting. Also I think that maybe this time period would be a good one to add in the origins (as it would have been multiple groups and people advocating it) of Confederate feeling within the nation. Man, I love history, there's definitely a lot to consider and do, but I'm on board! :) Hoffmann Kunarian TALK 21:58, October 18, 2012 (UTC)

Next part
Response to the above (which only went up to about 1910) seemed fairly positive, so here's the next part.

Over the next fifty years or so, the states pretty much ruled themselves, democratically. Not much happened on the federal level, because the governors were fairly conpetent and people didn't have much in common with those in other states. Most people identified themselves as by their state e.g. as Sylvanians rather than Lovians. Though the king was an important figure as representative of the whole nation and a unifying symbol, he didn't have much political power. There was no defined mechanism for making federal laws - on a couple of issues, however, the first nationwide laws were created: first, an agreement that no state would raise an army or go to war without agreement from all, and secondly a document in which each state pledged to democratically elect councils to assist them in running their states. These documents were signed by all governors as well as the king.

In the 1930s, the situation began to change. Depression caused large-scale migration between states as people searched for work, and with the clash of cultures and economic pressure over limited resources came conflict. Lovia was forced to develop a way of resolving interstate conflict, and at first it was left up to the king as a neutral arbiter. This proved inadequate after some dispute that arose in 1935 between Sylvania and some other states, shortly after Princess Lucy was elected Governor of Sylvania (my idea: perhaps the other poorer states had a lot of citizens working in NC because of the depression, and were angry because Sylvania wanted to impose some sort of extra tax on resident non-Sylvanians). The other states refused to accept the King's arbitration because they claimed he was biased towards his daughter (possibly why he was assassinated a few years later?). The tension reached a climax when they threatened to secede. Arthur backed down and created the Royal Legislative Council, which essentially took over the role of the king with regard to arbitration.

That's enough for now, I should think. :P I want to keep it a fairly vague outline so others, particularly the new governors, have the chance to put forward their own ideas. --Semyon 15:38, October 22, 2012 (UTC)


 * I like this idea, once again plenty of room to manouver and make our own history while still being on a proper well defined guideline. Personally I think that the thing that could have caused problems could be that Sylvania was increasing spending largely and won a lot of economic arguments against the other states due to being the centre of Lovia, the tipping point would be that they got to a situation when Sylvania was demanding that the other states pay taxes in to compensate for it and so the other states thought it was getting too big for its britches. Just an idea. Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 15:52, October 22, 2012 (UTC)
 * Yes, it settles the pre-Congress issues. Thanks very much. I hope the others like it too :) @kunarian: wouldn't work for Oceana, they had the only real mining industry, so they were economically nearly as big as Sylvania. For the other states, it would work. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 16:04, October 22, 2012 (UTC)
 * Perhaps that was the reason for the conflict: Oceana became big enough to challenge Sylvania for the first time. Having said that, I don't want the entire history of Lovia to revolve around Oceana fighting the rest of Lovia. :P --Semyon 16:08, October 22, 2012 (UTC)
 * No, this part would be Sylvania fighting the rest of Lovia, Oceana leading the coalition of states threatening to suceede, maybe raising a militia or two and then Lucy losing the elections for Governor bringing an end to it, with the new governor allying with the rest of Lovia to bring the kings power down. Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 16:11, October 22, 2012 (UTC)
 * That militia part doesn't sound that good to me :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 16:15, October 22, 2012 (UTC)
 * It's nothing, militias always get raised in america (and germany in 1919 to 1933) in tense times and considering we didn't make them illegal until the modern times, people who were trodden on and left jobless would most likely form private militias and be scary that's all. Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 16:20, October 22, 2012 (UTC)
 * That's true, lots of weird things happened in the 1930s. There was even a fascist group which ruled Seven for about eight years, if anyone bothered to read the article I wrote about it. :P --Semyon 16:23, October 22, 2012 (UTC)
 * Okay, then we keep the Seven militias and it's okay :) --O u WTBsjrief-mich 16:26, October 22, 2012 (UTC)
 * (I have read it Semyon!) 1920s to 30s would be pretty hectic years, and I don't think it would have been just Seven with scary militia however I doubt fascism would have got too much further but it and communism would have been very real threats to stability in that period of economic downturn however unlike other nations, they could easily be politically isolated when the states stopped bickering and then the return to stability and prosperity could happen with the end of the depression. Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 16:33, October 22, 2012 (UTC)

So what precisely was the point of contention? We know it's something to do with the states' wealth relative to each other, but not precisely what the issue was. (Another idea: Sylvania increased taxes on financial transactions out of the state, hitting migrant workers from the other states hard.) --Semyon 12:33, October 23, 2012 (UTC)


 * Sylvanian economy which had been surviving well due to heavy spending went bust, and demanded financial assistance from the other states? I think we might need to vote on this to be honest, choose two ideas that are probable and realistic and then choose between them. I like the idea about taxes on financial transactions is good, maybe combine it with my idea as a response to it going bust? it can be the straw that broke the donkeys back. :) Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 14:27, October 23, 2012 (UTC)

Final part
Lucy came to the throne in 1938. Initially unpopular (for reasons stated above), she quickly moved to conciliate the people of Lovia, by increasing representation of the smaller states in the RLC and helping to restrict the states' power to legislate against each other. Once again, the states' autonomy began to increase. However, with the immigration between states of the 1930s, and the creation of a shared Lovian culture, isolationism was no longer an option. States began to form bodies in order to work together, for instance the North Lovian Union, which imposed economic union on the north of Lovia, including the same tax system, interstate trade tariffs were banned. Similar organisations existed elsewhere, but I'll leave those to someone else to describe. :P Obviously, this additional layer of government made politics very complex and inefficient, with overlapping competencies. Irregularities compounded the problem, such as the fact that Cape Donald District in Kings was a member of the NLU but the rest of Kings wasn't.

Some time in the forties, the queen, who already had been playing a far smaller role than her father, retired altogether, appointing the first prime minister to replace her. This man (Mr X) was a big supporter of centralisation and efficient government, so attempted to break the states' power. He wasn't completely successful, but for the first time the laws began to be made systematically on the federal level, and states did lose a significant amount of their legislative authority. The RLG began to include some democratically elected people, so this is a high point of Lovian democracy. When Lucas took over in '52, he didn't try to change much.

The famines of '56 changed everything. Chaos ensued and neither the states nor the federal government was able to enforce their authority. It was particularly difficult for the states as hard times once again caused a huge number of Lovians to uproot and move elsewhere. When the famines subsided, people called for a strong figure and a centralised government. Lucas, who was seen as weak and the person responsible for the famines, was forced to resign, and was replaced by his brother, who immediately set about cutting the states, heavily weakened by the famines, down to size. Lovia became a much more authoritarian place - few members of the RLC were elected, and the King played a strong role, with a veto right which he exercised rather too often for an unelected monarch. The governors had little responsibility except appointing members of the RLC. This continued until 2002. --Semyon 16:00, October 23, 2012 (UTC)


 * This is great and there are some nice gaps in which we can fill in States history, however there seems to be very little definition on Lovian history from the 60s to the 90s maybe another final final part on ideas about that. I look forwards to writing out the economic struggles of Sylvania in the 30s to 40s (maybe they began to have to compete with the NLU and began building ties with Kings?), and the agressive Centralisation policies will be interesting to write about. :) good work again but I still think there's a gap from the 60s to the 90s we need to adress. Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 16:13, October 23, 2012 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I sort of ran out of ideas. :P --Semyon 16:16, October 23, 2012 (UTC)
 * So far, so good :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 16:45, October 23, 2012 (UTC)

Ideas for the 60s to 90s:

Putting my ideas here. I also think that we should have a rough outline for the other issues not mentioned around the 2000s and 2010-now, so that our history can be properly beefed up. Hoffmann Kunarian TALK 17:07, October 23, 2012 (UTC)
 * 60s: Economic success and the economic turbulence of the 50s coming to an end, Lovia gains a boost to its technology industry with new developments occuring and most people are able to also afford cars as the style changes from stylistic to simple. Socially things take a hectic turn: The hippy movement spreads to Lovia in the mid 60s and Feminism and Gay rights groups cause a ruccus in the states (Oceana is going to have fun dealing with them), most of these groups operate out of Noble City despite the Governor trying to keep them down. Crime also becomes a big issue and politically many politicains sell themselves on how they plan to deal with this problem along with the social unrest.
 * 70s: Low growth in state economies based on primary and secondary industry caused a nation wide depression and with rising oil prices (highlighted by the many cars people barely used because they couldn't afford them, also damaging and ending most Lovian based motor industry) with some states (maybe?) rationing gasoline. Alternative means of getting electricty gained high demands and anger towards closing coal mines caused political and economic problems, gas and oil became a big alternative with Lovia having natural gas and oil fields all around it. Environmentalism begins taking hold in Lovia and people become more concious and vocal about ensuring the welfare of the states environments, along with dwindling amounts of feminists, many returning from the feminist movement in the 60s.
 * 80s: Continued economic recession caused problems and brings around a revival in the belief of capitalism and neoliberal economic ideas, the states manage to get themselves together (whether by the new ideas or by other ideas) and are recovering at least by the end of the 80s. However during the early 80s the economic problems come to climax and causes social unrest (to be dealt with by the states). Green policy becomes a concern amongst some and popularity of the idea surges however problems ensue due to economic troubles making green policy difficult to follow.
 * 90s: All states recover by the early 90s and steady growth happens from now onwards, energy is largely supplied by the gas and oil in the seas around Lovia and Lovia becomes energy self sufficient and the oil and gas that is surplus brings in extra wealth that fuels the decades boom, the services industries experiences the largest growth, taking the lead easily over the secondary industry. Centralisation is broken down to help the economy grow and the states enjoy their greatest amount of freedom for 40 years. Feminism comes back for round three and people are generally quite content.

Sounds fine to me. I think this period might have been a time of American influence on Lovia, but in terms of political history it was probably rather boring. :P --Semyon 17:19, October 23, 2012 (UTC)
 * Yes, the 60's were a difficult time. See also: Asht Ilava. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 17:22, October 23, 2012 (UTC)

@70's miners: most mines were being closed or already closed by that time - adding up to the economic problems. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 17:58, October 23, 2012 (UTC)

Sylvanian Flag


I am going to change the Sylvanian flag to a new one, the seal on the flag doesn't really work and isn't a symbol of sylvania like what should be on a flag. I've come up with two ideas so far. One that represents the grand mountains of Sylvania (the white mountain with red sun) looking over the lands (the navy background). I chose it because Sylvania has no real state symbols and so I think that making the state symbol the mountain with or without dawning sun would add an aspect to the State that has never been there before.



I also made this one which is centered around a tree. Keeping more in line with the traditional tree related features of the state. It represents the great trees of Sylvania that have stood since the state began and represents the ever living spirit of the people within it. This is my current preference and would represent the forming of a greater cultural identity in Sylvania and giving it real detail. Plus I have ideas to link this in with Semyons ideas and craft a better more detailed history of the State.

Be great to hear your thoughts on this Hoffmann Kunarian TALK 21:21, October 18, 2012 (UTC)

By the way these are just roughs as in when the final one is chosen I will make the edges of the parts smoother and make the colours a little less bold so they seem more natural. Hoffmann Kunarian TALK 21:30, October 18, 2012 (UTC)

I've always wanted to see the Sylvania flag and seal change, so i'm pleased about this. I've always thought the other flags look better, so I'll vote the 3rd flag. Dave Leskromento


 * Personally I'm leaning towards the 4th flag but thanks for your reply :) Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 10:02, October 19, 2012 (UTC)
 * I like #3 and #2 best. 77topaz (talk) 10:35, October 19, 2012 (UTC)


 * I'll reword it. The ones that looks like trees are best but I am slightly leaning towards #3 because it has some extra detail in it. You are the governor so it's your choice though. Dave
 * See I think the green is maybe a bit too much and I prefer the boldness that comes from leaving the green out, I think that I'll probably choose number 4 unless someone raises a really good argument that changes my mind. I just feel at the moment that the tree and the blue background alone can represent Sylvania best. But I'm still on the fence for all of them. Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 14:45, October 19, 2012 (UTC)
 * Honestly I have to say that none are really beautiful, but neither is the current flag. Of all your choices I have to say no, 3 is the best, the green especially seems to represnt the state's natural side (the Emerald Highlands are green). But could I make a suggestion, what if you made the tree rounder and more symmetrical? HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 14:52, October 19, 2012 (UTC)
 * Beauty in a flag comes from the idea it produces not by the quality of its seam. Number 3 certainly seems popular at least, although the tree in the centre already represents the natural side of the state (you can see why I'm still on the fence). Ah well you see there's going to be a story behind the tree on this flag and besides symetry in my opinion would make it feel inorganic and ugly and that doesn't mix well with trees, I actually tried it and it just didn't sit well with me. Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 14:58, October 19, 2012 (UTC)
 * I still feel 4 to be very bland, while the green in no. 3 makes it so much nicer. HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 15:02, October 19, 2012 (UTC)
 * What you call bland I call straight forwards. If the green could mean something more than just the green parts of the state I might be persuaded but so far it's a little edgy. Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 15:10, October 19, 2012 (UTC)
 * The green symbolizes the state;s natural beauty and the land, and it makes a nice contrast with the blue (for the ocean). HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 15:34, October 19, 2012 (UTC)
 * hmm, I think I'll see what other people think but it's at least given them a point. However in the other one the navy blue represents Sylvania, and the tree represents the Sylvanian forests and the everlasting spirit of the people within them. Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 15:40, October 19, 2012 (UTC)
 * The blue better represents Lovia and the royalty, I think it was chosen on the previous flag aince the state was linked to these values. HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 15:44, October 19, 2012 (UTC)
 * Considering that it's a navy blue like the one from the flag it represents Liberal thought and freedom more than anything. Lovia is represented mainly by the pine and royalty by a crown without a cross. This state if anything has been least linked to supporting the crown (with many republicans calling it home) and to be honest Sylvania hasn't had a key defined culture or tradtion however I'm going to build upon that and the flag is the first step. Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 15:51, October 19, 2012 (UTC)
 * All the other states except Clymene use blue in their flags, so keeping the green could be part of a tradition distinct from the rest of Lovia's. HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 15:57, October 19, 2012 (UTC)


 * Agreed with the horton comment. BTW, the IDP was a rubbish party so I need a new party as a Seven Delegate, just thought i'd say it here because of the popular conversation. Dave Leskromento.
 * WHy not join Labour? HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 15:02, October 19, 2012 (UTC)
 * Shameless. Why not go independent or tell people where you stand, I'd be happy to point you to a good party that fits you. Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 15:10, October 19, 2012 (UTC)


 * I'd be intrested in a party that hmmm, crime must be punished harshly, that will make this wiki more real life, Everyone in Lovia has got to be equal and, the government is too powerful. Dave.
 * On your crime issues I'd recommend: CNP (mine) and PL on your realism and equality issues, you'll find differeing opinions of how that should be carried out, on your government issues I'd recommend (going from left to right in order of those in favour of least government first and most government last): CNP, PL, LDP, CCPL, Labour, CPL.nm and there you go so in all honesty, I'd have to recommend you have a look at CNP and PL but look at the other parties I've linked in case you see something you like. Hope I've helped. Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 15:26, October 19, 2012 (UTC)


 * My final desicion comes down to flaw and history and if a 'real user' is already employed in that position. I will look and take down notes. Dave


 * One last question about the State Elections? Say If i joined PL and the leader, Chris, was the Sylvania Delegate, he went in the elections, Would I still be allowed to enter the Seven elections (having a house) or can there only be one person per party? Dave Leskromento

I think we should keep the current fla. It is maybe too complex but every nation has it's unperfect thingies Pierlot McCrooke 16:20, October 19, 2012 (UTC)


 * True but we don't lose much by chaning the flag especially if we can expand upon the spirit of Sylvania. Besides the Tree flag with navy blue background and green stripes seems popular. :) Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 16:26, October 19, 2012 (UTC)

I ain't gonna read all of this discussion; you guys surely left something to read here :P My preference goes to 3. 1 and 2 are not "flag-worthy" and 4 is way too monotone. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 17:43, October 19, 2012 (UTC)


 * Yes, 3 is nice, but the tree looks like half a mushroom or an ostriche's ass. HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 17:49, October 19, 2012 (UTC)
 * That's true, but Kunarian promised to improve the accepted design, so :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 17:53, October 19, 2012 (UTC)
 * Horton find me a good looking tree that you can make into a flat colour and from which I can make it visibly a tree and then you can criticise what I can produce. Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 17:59, October 19, 2012 (UTC)
 * Like you said before, round out the edges a bit. You can make a tree without having to keep all that detail. HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 18:32, October 19, 2012 (UTC)
 * I will clean it up but seriously, that way of criticising (call it blunt or brutal) is what discourages some users. At least do it in a way without directly insulting what I've done. Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 18:36, October 19, 2012 (UTC)

Here's a new cleaner and finer design, while still a little complex, I believe that it is okay to have a certain level of detail if the flag requires it. And another (maybe better?) idea. Hoffmann Kunarian TALK 20:18, October 19, 2012 (UTC)

Please no. The tree is just too detailed to be on a flag, even if you did remove some of the fine edges. I'd say design 1 or design 2. Since people seem to like the green edging, which I have no problem with, so 2. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 20:23, October 19, 2012 (UTC)

Okay, seeming as I can't find any really viable tree options I came up with this idea. Hoffmann Kunarian TALK 21:12, October 19, 2012 (UTC)

If you add green bands to the snowflake it would look amazing. HORTON11 : •  21:16, October 19, 2012 (UTC)


 * It does look like a snowflake actually, but it's supposed to be a ring of oak leaves (still keeping the woods theme). And here's the one with the green bands, hope you enjoy them. Oh and I brightened the green, too dull before. Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 21:28, October 19, 2012 (UTC)
 * Contra to everything except number four. Like the old one personally Marcus/Michael Villanova 22:48, October 19, 2012 (UTC)
 * The number four with the tree or the number four with the oak leaves? either of those are my personal leanings. Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 22:52, October 19, 2012 (UTC)
 * Of the oak leaves ones, I like the one on the left better. The versions with the large tree are overly complicated. 77topaz (talk) 23:16, October 19, 2012 (UTC)

No, it looks like a broccoli... --O u WTBsjrief-mich 09:15, October 20, 2012 (UTC)

Marcus, you like flags that consist of a solid background with an overly complex seal on them? Those are not real flags, they are lazy flags. ;) —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 12:45, October 20, 2012 (UTC)

They're American-type flags. :P 77topaz (talk) 21:44, October 20, 2012 (UTC)

Vote for the Flag of your preference
RIGHT A VOTE HAD TO BE CALLED. These are the only two flags I am currently considering and while I could be a big mean old Governor and choose what I want I think this is the right way to do things voting will close tomorrow night:

Oak Leaf Flag without Bands:


 * - Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 23:26, October 19, 2012 (UTC)
 * I know voting already closed, but I have to have my say. :P Simplicity = sophistication. What do those green stripes really add? --Semyon 15:06, October 23, 2012 (UTC)
 * Well I think we agreed that they represent the green lands of lovia all around, while the blue background represents Sylvania and the ring of oak leaves represent the everlasting forests that stood here before Lovia was even discovered and still stand now. I still prefer this one but I'll work with the other. Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 15:16, October 23, 2012 (UTC)



Oak Leaf Flag with Bands:

Well I seem to be slightly outnumbered here, heh. HOWEVER IAM GUVNOR SO I SAY THE FIRST! no, we shall have the democratic choice! Long live Sylvania! Hoffmann Kunarian TALK 23:32, October 20, 2012 (UTC)
 * - 77topaz (talk) 23:30, October 19, 2012 (UTC)
 * Happy65
 * --O u WTBsjrief-mich 09:15, October 20, 2012 (UTC)
 * - the fanciest flag so far. The glorious First Consul of Rome (talk) 12:36, October 20, 2012 (UTC)
 * - hard to decide between with and without, but in the end I think that this is best. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 12:45, October 20, 2012 (UTC)
 * Simply brilliant. HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 14:26, October 20, 2012 (UTC)

Deputy governor of Seven
I am aware that I am the only citizen who wants to be deputy governor of Seven and after reading the Constitution Article 8 I realized that in order to be a deputy governor you are required to recover three votes and be nominated, so I think it would be in order for Congress to vote on me becoming the deputy governor or not. --Quarantine Zone (talk) 02:39, October 19, 2012 (UTC)
 * I thought we were going to do a revote in of the other states. If so, we could also open a voting thing for you as Dep. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 17:42, October 19, 2012 (UTC)
 * Well in Kings the vote was decided, so the only problem with the election ended up being the deputy governor of Seven. As far as I know, I'm the only one who wants to run, but I am required to have three votes by the Constitution. --Quarantine Zone (talk) 19:48, October 19, 2012 (UTC)
 * I think that Happy wants to try and become deputy too. Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 20:08, October 19, 2012 (UTC)
 * I think that we are going to have a revote in Seven but with Semyon guaranteed as governor. This way, we'll have a smaller election in which people who are not already a gov or dep in another state and are a resident of Seven can run to become the dep of Seven. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 12:54, October 20, 2012 (UTC)


 * Yes, I am intrested in being the Deputy Governor of Seven. CNP! Happy65 LogoCNP.png

Ceol
i made a Lovia-lioke thing called Ceol. Please have a look and tell me what u think!!!! http://islandnation.wikia.com/wiki/Islandnation_Wiki

Masterire UCD 08:05 am 19/10/12

I think most people know of it by now. :P 77topaz (talk) 10:37, October 19, 2012 (UTC)
 * How can you say such a thing when the most important person has not yet seen the page? Let me honour your little wiki with a visit. The glorious First Consul of Rome (talk) 10:48, October 19, 2012 (UTC)
 * Indeed, I think Dimi's not visited it yet. :) 77topaz (talk) 11:22, October 19, 2012 (UTC)
 * Well played, sir, well played... The glorious First Consul of Rome (talk) 11:37, October 19, 2012 (UTC)

A naughty question
Ummm, I was thinking of establishing a pornographic film production company. Is that acceptable or I've gone too far??--George the Greek (talk) 12:57, October 19, 2012 (UTC)
 * As long as you stick to description and don't try to visualize them with images of what goes on in those movies... you should be fine. Of course, as a member of the conservative CCPL, I would be obliged to be disagree with the choice of films your company would produce. It's an interesting idea, that's for sure. The glorious First Consul of Rome (talk) 13:16, October 19, 2012 (UTC)
 * Don't worry, I won't do anything nasty. But I'd like the opinion of other users, too.--George the Greek (talk) 13:26, October 19, 2012 (UTC)
 * You'll get plenty of opinions, Zorba. The glorious First Consul of Rome (talk) 13:33, October 19, 2012 (UTC)


 * The glorious First Consul of Rome has right. Don't add pictures or movies about, euhm ... pornography. Euh ... yeah, a weird topic. But of course, why not? Wabba The I (talk) 15:05, October 19, 2012 (UTC)
 * I still don't know if I'm gonna make it... I find it a little weird too. Maybe later.--George the Greek (talk) 17:32, October 19, 2012 (UTC)
 * Not a surprise: . Pornography should be illegal - distribution and production. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 17:41, October 19, 2012 (UTC)
 * personally, but overall . —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 20:21, October 19, 2012 (UTC)

Not sure what "Zorba" means. 77topaz (talk) 23:49, October 19, 2012 (UTC)
 * I believe he wants to make immoral films :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 09:17, October 20, 2012 (UTC)


 * Contra but a litle bit neutral. In every country, there are illegal pornographic studios. Why not Lovia? But yeah, I'm against it sometimes! Wabba The I (talk) 10:27, October 20, 2012 (UTC)
 * Not illegal! There are numerous such companies in USA and according to a BBC documentary I recently watched, porn industry is really extensive and profitable.--George the Greek (talk) 12:19, October 20, 2012 (UTC)
 * Of course it's extensive and profitable; it's also profitable to steal from a supermarket and that's extensive as well :P But 'right, I know what you're saying. My Christian background simply can't vote pro :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 12:23, October 20, 2012 (UTC)
 * Last time I checked, this was the Pub and not the Parliament. So we can vote against this as much as we want but unless we make it into a law and take it to the Second Chamber, we have absolutely no ground to forbid George from persuing his plans. However immoral they may be in the eyes of us conservatives. The glorious First Consul of Rome (talk) 12:31, October 20, 2012 (UTC)
 * PS: I am on the subject myself. Not to allow our new friend to start this company would be against the law. Someone needs to be the Devil's advocate in order to make sure things are done according to the (law) book. Even if it's against our book. The glorious First Consul of Rome (talk) 12:34, October 20, 2012 (UTC)

I'm against pornography, but those are because of my Christian views; however, I think we would have to pass some sort of law against it. As far as I'm aware there is no law that can stop someone from making a company or film. --Quarantine Zone (talk) 21:25, October 20, 2012 (UTC)

I didn't actually comment on this before, because I thought my views would be pretty obvious. :P IC I'm opposed, but OOC not, because as Oos says, no-one can stop you creating a page. Though I hardly need say that if there's going to be detailed plot description on the page it'll be deleted. --Semyon 09:47, October 22, 2012 (UTC)

4kant,6FRÅGOR??? 18:45, October 22, 2012 (UTC)

Retroactive undoing of removal of local and sub local governments
What do you guys think of retroactively undoing the removal of local and sub local governments that was done in the 2010 State Reform? Just to clarify, if this can't be retroactive, I'm probably opposed. If it can be retroactive, then what I'm thinking is that mayors (and other government positions of cities) and chairpeople of neighborhoods (and hamlets) will be re-added. The reason for this is that I don't like how we had mayors for over a century and then suddenly in 2010 we decide "we don't need them anymore". It makes no sense. Being in local and sub local government would still just be an extra thing, sort of like the Speaker of the Congress. Yet, it would make us more realistic. Remember, I want this to be retroactive. I know, it might be strange to undo things retroactively, but it'll make more sense if we do. Please consider. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 13:35, October 20, 2012 (UTC)


 * I personally don't like retroactive changes. What the 2010 State Reform could be explained as was the centralisation practiced by the leftist governments, which could be an explanation for why they lost so many votes (that and Yuri retiring) as people realised that they wanted and needed these lower level government offices. We can make a reform again easily that not only includes devolving powers to the states but the inserting of Mayors and such again. And again retroactive changes really don't fit with the idea of Lovia when they are on the user interactive decisions. Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 13:50, October 20, 2012 (UTC)

Well, I'd say most of us agree that it messed up history. Again, the "Even though we've had them for over a century, mayors are a waste of space!" thing just makes no sense. It would just be strange to get rid after being in existence so long. I could settle for a non-retroactive change, but I would strongly prefer to have it be retroactive. I can understand the deletion of the state courts and state police after the centralization of Lovia in 2008, but getting rid of chairpeople and especially mayors is a stretch, and I would like to see them back without a break in their history. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 13:56, October 20, 2012 (UTC)

I think this is a good idea. it does seem a bit weird to have mayors for so long and them stop them. Besides, most cities i know have local government. Daembrales (talk) 17:37, October 20, 2012 (UTC)

I don't see a reason for the local governments though... I see your point, but I don't think that its valid enough of a reason. We could have Congress vote on it, or have each state decide individually. That would show what everyone thinks of the idea. --Quarantine Zone (talk) 21:21, October 20, 2012 (UTC)

I don't agree. The entire mayor system was a mess. The free functions didn't work out: chairmen were fired by mayors, by governors, and by the king... And there really was no need for them. In most states, there only was one town, so the mayor had exactly the same role as the governor. What we should do: reinforce the position of the governor. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 08:22, October 21, 2012 (UTC)

That still doesn't fix the random removal of over a century of mayors. Also, I just want them to be a position for show--not really do much, but just to keep realisticness. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 01:45, October 22, 2012 (UTC)

We should stick to the ceremonial role f.e. in Oceana, then I'm pro: mayors never really had executive, but just advisory roles in the communities they lead. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 13:30, October 22, 2012 (UTC)

Charleston Design
Hello everybody. It's Professor Dave Leskromento here from Charleston University. As part of a community project, I would like to ask you to take part in a Logo and Seal design project. There are only two rules, 1, it must have a castillo tower on it and 2, if you are designing a seal, it must say Charleston University on it. Also, swearing is not allowed on either the seal or flag. Now you know the rules, go ahead and be creative.

Note: These are examples and therefore the seal does not say Charleston University and they do not have a Castillo Tower on them.

Flag entries
Since the university is in Charleston, the Castillo Tower symbol featured on the town seal should probably be featured on the university seal etc. Also, why does there need to a penguin? 77topaz (talk) 00:07, October 21, 2012 (UTC)

Agreed. A penguin is not very Lovian è. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 01:10, October 21, 2012 (UTC)

I don't speak limburgish very well, you know. Happy65

You'll learn it :P But yeah, I agree I don't understand the penguin too. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 08:24, October 21, 2012 (UTC)

I changed that. I was planning to open a big department for research in Antarctica on penguins but I decided to not do that as it would waste too much money.Happy65

I use è to replace "after all" or "you see". —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 01:39, October 22, 2012 (UTC)

Yeah. That's the only thing I knew in Limburgish. Happy65

LAP + LDP = SLP?
Hey, I was just thinking about merging LAP and LDP to create a more general "Social Liberal Party". The reason I left the LAP alive for so long because I was still hoping on Percival and Lars to return, but it's clear now that they're gone probably forever. Would anyone mind if I merged them, and possibly the Lovian Alliance if Horton agrees, into a unified party? —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 01:10, October 21, 2012 (UTC)
 * That would be a good thing to do indeed :) --O u WTBsjrief-mich 08:51, October 21, 2012 (UTC)


 * I agree. Shouldn't we vote on this at the Forum:Second Chamber though? Happy65 LogoCNP.png
 * No, I think it would be undemocratic if Congress would decide our political parties :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 08:57, October 21, 2012 (UTC)


 * I understand, so party agreement. Should we do it like this so we can have both sides permission for a merger?
 * {| border="0" cellpadding="1" cellspacing="1" class="article-table" style="width: 500px; "

! scope="col"|Name ! scope="col"|Leader ! scope="col"|Confirmiation from leader
 * Liberal Arts Party
 * Lars Washington [1]
 * Yes [2]
 * Liberal Democratic Party
 * TimeMaster [3]
 * Yes [4]
 * Lovian Alliance
 * Horton
 * Unconfirmed
 * }
 * [1] Lars Washington is gone forever so the desicion is down to TimeMaster
 * [2] Leaders please change this to yes if you confirm.
 * [4] Leaders please change this to yes if you confirm.
 * [3] TimeMaster is the leader of both, so once he has confirmed confirmation on both sides, the social arts party will officialy have merged.
 * [2] Leaders please change this to yes if you confirm.
 * [4] Leaders please change this to yes if you confirm.
 * [3] TimeMaster is the leader of both, so once he has confirmed confirmation on both sides, the social arts party will officialy have merged.


 * If there's a problem with this, please tell me, I'm pretty new around here. Happy65 LogoCNP.png
 * Yeah, I think it's up to TM really. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 10:00, October 21, 2012 (UTC)
 * Yes, Happy I know it may seem a bit wierd but you'll get used to things soon. You see Lars isn't here anymore and Timemaster has practically assumed command of the LAP as well as the LDP so he can do what he wishes really. Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 10:04, October 21, 2012 (UTC)

What a cute table. :3 Anyway, I'll merge them now. Still waiting on confirmation from Horton, though. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 12:58, October 21, 2012 (UTC)

Realistic maps
One thing that always bothered me is how the interactive "maps" that we have in almost every hamlet to city on this wiki each contain far less homes than enough to house the local populous. Are 80% of Lovian citizens homeless, or do all of the player characters just happen to be living within a three-block radius of each other. I feel that we should expand and place more homes/minor apartment buildings in each area to expand and be more realistic. Instead of having each sign read "for sale" if it hasn't been claimed by a player character, I think it would be best to leave them blank until a player claims them, and if not, we just assume it is the residence of some NPC. It wouldn't be too much trouble for me too help out in large part if you guys agree with what I am saying. — <font color=#2E6FFD>Christopher Costello  (<font color=#2E6FFD>Pikapi • <font color=#2E6FFD>Chat  • <font color=#2E6FFD>What's up ) 19:57, October 21, 2012 (UTC)

Interactive maps are another relic from the age of Libertas where interactive companies, such as Nimmanswolk, were commonplace. They don't make sense and we have many more fake people than real people here, but they are interactive, which is rather nice. I don't think we should add more plots; instead, we should just only consider the streetplan of these cities to be realistic, and not the people living in them. Though, that's not to mean we need to prohibit giving NPCs a home on the map. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 20:00, October 21, 2012 (UTC)

I'd keep the current situation. It's not workable to create maps on a real scale. I tried it in Reptin and it didn't work out :) --O u WTBsjrief-mich 08:41, October 22, 2012 (UTC)

If it was my choice, there are not maps like this. Pikapi has right: most of them are inhabited by users (which have already three homes sometimes) or sometimes not real characters. Sometimes shops, parks, companies ... but it is really unrealistic. Maybe we just have to do that only residents can get a home in a map? Wabba The I (talk) 17:00, October 22, 2012 (UTC)

Very much. Now we can still give addresses for companies, which will be impossible then. And: changing all these maps is going to be a hell of a task and actually they'll become useless, because they will all contain the same residential spaces... --O u WTBsjrief-mich 13:02, October 23, 2012 (UTC)
 * Iam to the cirrnt maps, very unrealistic Pierlot McCrooke 14:36, October 23, 2012 (UTC)


 * No, I mean shops and houses for users and companies and parks and what ever but not houses for 'not user-characters'. But who cares, let it be. Wabba The I (talk) 15:28, October 23, 2012 (UTC)
 * Then I agree with you, also the who cares part :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 16:43, October 23, 2012 (UTC)

Some Polling for the Lovian Times
I thought it might be interesting to do some polling, we haven't done it in a while and I think it might be interesting to do it in the old fashioned style of having the parties with at least 5 seats and their leaders as options in these polls as well as the rest in other. Feel free to poll, they are anonymous and will be put in the Lovian Times later on with a full long and well detailed analysis. DO NOT EDIT POLLS FOR ANY REASON, EVEN IF THERE IS A SPELLING MISTAKE.

Elections


 * If a Federal Election happened tomorrow who would you give a major vote to?
 * Labour Party - 3 Votes
 * Conservative Christian Party of Lovia - 8 Votes
 * Social Liberal Party - 2 Votes
 * Positive Lovia - 2 Votes
 * Conservative Nationalist Party - 3 Votes
 * Other - 3 Votes


 * If a Federal Election happened tomorrow who would you give a minor/support vote to?
 * Labour Party - 5 Votes
 * Conservative Christian Party of Lovia - 3 Votes
 * Social Liberal Party - 5 Votes
 * Positive Lovia - 2 Votes
 * Conservative Nationalist Party - 5 Votes
 * Other - 1 Vote


 * If a Federal Election happened tomorrow who would you most want to be Prime Minister?
 * Marcus Villanova - 2 Votes
 * Oos Wes Ilava - 12 Votes
 * William Krosby - 3 Votes
 * Christopher Costello - 2 Votes
 * Lukas Hoffmann - 2 Votes
 * Other - 1 Vote

General Issues


 * Which party do you most trust on the issue of the economy?
 * Labour Party - 2 Votes
 * Conservative Christian Party of Lovia - 7 Votes
 * Social Liberal Party - 3 Votes
 * Positive Lovia - 2 Votes
 * Conservative Nationalist Party - 2 Votes
 * Other - 3 Votes


 * Which party do you most trust on the issue of state powers?
 * Labour Party - 3 Votes
 * Conservative Christian Party of Lovia - 6 Votes
 * Social Liberal Party - 2 Votes
 * Positive Lovia - 1 Vote
 * Conservative Nationalist Party - 5 Votes
 * Other - 2 Votes


 * Which party do you most trust on the issue of health and welfare?
 * Labour Party - 5 Votes
 * Conservative Christian Party of Lovia - 4 Votes
 * Social Liberal Party - 4 Votes
 * Positive Lovia - 2 Votes
 * Conservative Nationalist Party - 2 Votes
 * Other - 2 Votes


 * Which party do you most trust on the issue of transportation?
 * Labour Party - 2 Votes
 * Conservative Christian Party of Lovia - 7 Votes
 * Social Liberal Party - 3 Votes
 * Positive Lovia - 1 Vote
 * Conservative Nationalist Party - 3 Votes
 * Other - 2 Votes

State Issues


 * Which party do you most trust on the issue of the Oceana overpopulation?
 * Labour Party - 1 Vote
 * Conservative Christian Party of Lovia - 12 Votes
 * Social Liberal Party - 1 Vote
 * Positive Lovia - 1 Vote
 * Conservative Nationalist Party - 1 Vote
 * Other - 3 Votes


 * Which party do you most trust on the issue of Train Village repair?
 * Labour Party - 3 Votes
 * Conservative Christian Party of Lovia - 4 Votes
 * Social Liberal Party - 0 Votes
 * Positive Lovia - 1 Vote
 * Conservative Nationalist Party - 9 Votes
 * Other - 2 Votes

Approval


 * Are you happy with the way the current government is operating?
 * Very happy - 1 Vote
 * Happy - 6 Votes
 * Indifferent - 4 Votes
 * Unhappy - 7 Votes
 * Very unhappy - 0 Votes


 * Are you happy with the way the current Prime Minister is running the government?
 * Very happy - 1 Vote
 * Happy - 9 Votes
 * Indifferent - 6 Votes
 * Unhappy - 2 Votes
 * Very unhappy - 0 Votes


 * Do you think someone else could do a better job at running the government?
 * Yes - 2 Votes
 * Indifferent - 11 Votes
 * No - 6 Votes

Comments
Throw your comments here! Hoffmann Kunarian TALK 22:27, October 22, 2012 (UTC)

I've started it off, please vote, we need to know your opinions! :D Hoffmann Kunarian TALK 22:43, October 22, 2012 (UTC)

You can guess who I voted for. I also support the retroactive removal of TV for this reason: the name sucks and it's just a strange town. And then we can create a new town in its place with a new culture and new name. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 22:49, October 22, 2012 (UTC)


 * Definitely an idea, but I will be doing something about Train Village as Governor, it's a major issue I want to deal with and will most likely include making it smaller and more focused. Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 22:51, October 22, 2012 (UTC)
 * Well my votes for other were for MCCP, which is kinda CCPL, but I put votes into other on some of those.

--Quarantine Zone (talk) 22:57, October 22, 2012 (UTC)

You know this stuff is already getting interesting :D I can't wait to see the polls at the end of the week. Hoffmann Kunarian TALK 23:06, October 22, 2012 (UTC)

I voted mostly PL, but the CNP, SLP, and CCPL were some of my other choices. Also, thanks Matt. — <font color=#2E6FFD>Christopher Costello  (<font color=#2E6FFD>Pikapi • <font color=#2E6FFD>Chat  • <font color=#2E6FFD>What's up ) 23:26, October 22, 2012 (UTC)


 * Glad you voted Costello! Also I haven't mentioned but I'll probably be analysing the current positions of parties individually with the Lovian Times article. Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 23:31, October 22, 2012 (UTC)
 * I'm going to Close the polls a little earlier than I said, seeming as almost 20 people have voted now, they'll close at 10 :) Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 16:00, October 23, 2012 (UTC)

Interesting to see most people vote CCPL in the first poll and in the issue polls, where they have most or second most votes everywhere :P 4kant,6FRÅGOR??? 17:11, October 23, 2012 (UTC)
 * Probably the center position I guess :) --O u WTBsjrief-mich 17:21, October 23, 2012 (UTC)

Cool poll! i voted for SLP for most things, but Labour, CNP, CCPL, or other on other issues. Daembrales (talk) 20:49, October 23, 2012 (UTC)


 * I know it's just like the ones in real life :D and I'm glad if we got your votes anywhere. I'm just closing the polls now so you got here just in time :) Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 21:01, October 23, 2012 (UTC)
 * Interesting. Unhappy with government, but the people trust the CCPL on most things. The elections will be very interesting this year. Marcus/Michael Villanova 00:19, October 24, 2012 (UTC)
 * I wouldn't say unhappy, I'd say people have highly mixed opinions, but people like Oos.and a large amount think that someone else wouldn't be able to do a better job. I think this poll raises some questions on what people could be unhappy about though. Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 01:10, October 24, 2012 (UTC)
 * Ow no, I vote that somebody could perhaps (well... probably would be better :P) do it better than me :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 08:30, October 24, 2012 (UTC)
 * I think humility will only make people want you to be Prime Minister more. :L Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 11:08, October 24, 2012 (UTC)
 * Unhappy with government? The most popular choice was 'unhappy,' yes, but only if you don't count 'very happy' together with 'happy,' which is dodgy statistics. --Semyon 12:47, October 24, 2012 (UTC)

Islam
Our new co-patriot, Rakham Tarik Al-Asmari, got me interested in the Muslim minority of Lovia. There is LMB, but no space for a mosque. What shall we do my friends??--George the Greek (talk) 22:10, October 24, 2012 (UTC)


 * Government shall do nothing, the muslim community however can gather money together and build their own Mosque, it doesn't have to be in the city, according to my statistics they are mostly in Noble City but a reasonable amount reside in Train Village and Charleston, so really you could set it up in a place where the majority could easily worship, or have a southern and northern mosque. Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 22:46, October 24, 2012 (UTC)


 * Well, the mosque should be in the city (I was thinking of a federal estate). Anyway, where can I find statistics about the Muslims??--George the Greek (talk) 22:57, October 24, 2012 (UTC)


 * I was thinking Algebra (being a Muslim corporation and all), would sponser the construction of a grand mosque in a purpose-built town for the Muslim population in Kings. Of course I forgot who was the governor even after Topaz told me... >.< ((ლ( (ಠ益ಠ) ((ლ( 22:59, October 24, 2012 (UTC)
 * Statistics about muslims in Sylvania are right in front of me and will soon be on the census page. You can't build it on a federal estate, Lovia has a seperation of church and state and so I couldn't approve it, but I'll look for a suitable place. And that's a great idea Viva, then you can go the whole mile with it. Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 23:04, October 24, 2012 (UTC)


 * Great. I'll get to work on it soon. ((ლ( (ಠ益ಠ) ((ლ( 23:08, October 24, 2012 (UTC)
 * Ummm, I think there are about 500 Muslims in Lovia and not all of them in one single state. The mosque can't be enormous.--George the Greek (talk) 23:11, October 24, 2012 (UTC)
 * The relgion in Lovia page is outdated George. there are 2,000 Muslims in Sylvania alone, barely any in Oceana, 500 in Seven and no idea about the other states. And choose somewhere in Artista, it's the best place, then you can really make it quite decorated and elaborate if you want and that way it'll fit the neighborhoods style. In Artista and the adjacent neighborhoods there are around 750 Muslims which is almost half the Muslim population in Noble city so I'd say it's a pretty good place for a mosque. Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 23:15, October 24, 2012 (UTC)
 * Why so many? Where are they from?? And there's no space in Artista, unless we "sucrifice" a house.--George the Greek (talk) 23:27, October 24, 2012 (UTC)
 * Why so many? That is barely any 2.7% of the population in Sylvania is nothing, in fact it's quite standard considering our immigration policy. They mainly come from Europe. Do you have a problem with there being that many Muslims? and there's plenty of room in Artista, the houses are all up for grabs and then you change the colour to administrative and label it as being owned by the Lovian Muslim Brotherhood. Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 23:50, October 24, 2012 (UTC)
 * Well, I would like to explain that the Muslim population is offered an incentive to move to the planned town for them. Would you say $15-20,000 US is a good enough reason to uproot and move into a town with fellow believers? ((ლ( (ಠ益ಠ) ((ლ( 23:46, October 24, 2012 (UTC)
 * I don't know if they would exactly, Lovia doesn't exactly discriminate and they've probably lived there for a generation at least and built a strong community in their areas like they have in other countries. Plus I didn't even know such a place had been approved yet. Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 23:50, October 24, 2012 (UTC)
 * No, Kunarian, I've got no problem with the Muslims, I'm working a lot on them right now. Also, I think there's no reason to establish a Muslim neighbourhood or something. Dear Viva, we should cooperate on that. I don't know what time is it in your countries, but I'm gonna sleep right now. Bye!--George the Greek (talk) 00:15, October 25, 2012 (UTC)
 * I think you might have misunderstood me and jumped the gun, because I asked you if you had a problem with there being THAT MANY muslims as in whether you had a problem with the statistics, I wasn't for a moment suggesting that you had a problem with Muslims themselves, and I'm sorry if that is the way it came across. And it's very late in my country too, but I'm a night person, goodnight enjoy the rest. Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 00:22, October 25, 2012 (UTC)