Forum:First Chamber

__NEWSECTIONLINK__ In Lovia, Congress is the national legislative body and the most powerful branch of government. The First Chamber is one of the two chambers of Congress, in which the Members of the Congress propose bills and debate them. The Second Chamber is where they are eventually voted. Despite the two-chamber system, Lovia does not have a bicameral parliament: there is only one group of MOTCs that both debates and votes the proposals. For the current composition of Congress, see this.

As prescribed by Article 6 of the Constitution, all Lovian citizens "may write and propose motions to the Federal Law", that "are presented to the Members of the Congress in the First Chamber." The MOTCs' duty is to "read the motion and form a personal opinion about it. In order to obtain the support of a majority of Members of the Congress, changes may be proposed in the First Chamber." If a majority is likely to be found, the proposer will move the bill to the Second Chamber for a vote.

The First Chamber is not a popular assembly where all citizens can express their personal interests. Polling the population ought to happen outside of Congress.

001. Establishing a PM and government
Here, MOTCs will vote for their preferred PM. The chosen one will then propose a government. If there's not a clear choice, multiple government proposals can be made. Vote for your preferred candidate and include the number of votes. --Semyon 17:37, April 30, 2015 (UTC)

Candidates

 * Anna Maria Whithdonck-Malsky (independent). Main aims: exclude CCPL and allied parties from government, abolish monarchy and Heretowship, work towards a socialist society, trial war criminals, establish two new ministries (Science and Equality).


 * (6 votes) --Semyon 17:37, April 30, 2015 (UTC)
 * (10 votes, but rename Equality to Social Affairs) —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 17:46, April 30, 2015 (UTC)


 * That's negotiable è. --Semyon 17:51, April 30, 2015 (UTC)
 * Justin Abrahams (United Left). Main aims: Work with parties across the spectrum to bring much-needed change and improvement to Lovia, not only socially but economicaly as well.


 * (11 votes) HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 17:40, April 30, 2015 (UTC)
 * (5 votes) Traspes - Dianna Bartol LOGO POSITIVE BLOCK.png 14:11, May 1, 2015 (UTC)
 * 4 votes. 77topaz (talk) 22:57, May 1, 2015 (UTC)
 * Neil Hardy (CCPL). Main aims: Bring much-wanted and overdue change to the Constitution in areas.
 * (7 votes) Happy65 18:10, April 30, 2015 (UTC)
 * (12+3=15 votes) --O u WTB 07:56, May 1, 2015 (UTC)
 * (3 votes) MartijnM (talk) 18:17, May 2, 2015 (UTC)
 * (7 votes) Bart K (talk) 11:46, May 3, 2015 (UTC)
 * (2 votes) Sithlent (talk) 15:21, May 3, 2015 (UTC)
 * Lukas Hoffmann (CNP). Main aims: Reform the Constitution to lower the effect of inactive Congresspersons, Introduce State investment funds to boost the economy, Strengthen Trade Unions and increase the power of workers, Create a national health service on a national level, Create laws and bolster policing to end the militia threat, Introduce social housing to house the most needy in society.
 * (7 votes) Hoffmann LogoCNP2wt.png Kunarian TALK 20:42, April 30, 2015 (UTC)
 * (3 votes) Flag of the Xanian Empire.svg Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 00:28, May 2, 2015 (UTC)
 * (7 votes) Bart K (talk) 15:32, May 2, 2015 (UTC)
 * (4 votes) --QytokantFRÅGOR??? 09:53, May 3, 2015 (UTC)
 * (5 votes) —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 12:47, May 3, 2015 (UTC)
 * Vladek Przwalsky (OSB). Main aims: exclude AMWM and other communist and centralist beasts from government, abolish gay rights and murder laws, work towards an independent Oceana, trial corrupt politicians, establish a new ministry (Oceana Independence)


 * (3 votes) --O u WTB 11:56, May 1, 2015 (UTC)
 * Katie Conroy (LF). Main aims: Reform the Constitution to ensure that state governments work for everyone, resolve the housing crisis in Plains, legislate for a National Health Service, to end the disparity between state healthcare services, remove the homophobic and misogynistic CCPL from government
 * (7 votes) -- Frijoles333 TALK 18:23, May 1, 2015 (UTC)
 * (5 votes) —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 12:47, May 3, 2015 (UTC)
 * (6 votes) --Semyon 12:48, May 3, 2015 (UTC)
 * (11 votes)  HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG  HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 14:36, May 3, 2015 (UTC)
 * (5 votes) Traspes - Dianna Bartol LOGO POSITIVE BLOCK.png 14:59, May 3, 2015 (UTC)
 * (1 vote) Sithlent (talk) 15:21, May 3, 2015 (UTC)
 * 7 votes. 77topaz (talk) 20:39, May 3, 2015 (UTC)
 * William Krosby (SLP). Main aims: exclude CCPL and allied parties from government, abolish Heretowship, work towards a socialist society, trial war criminals, establish new ministries (Science, Social Affairs, Urban Affairs, possible others), guarantee state councils in the Constitution based on democratic principles, introduce state investment funds, reverse excess decentralization, create a national health service on a national level, create laws and bolster policing to end the militia threat, introduce social housing to house the most needy in society, strengthen trade unions and increase the power of workers, reform education. (this consists mostly of Hoffmann's, Conroy's, and AMWM's goals)


 * (10 votes) —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 20:55, May 1, 2015 (UTC)
 * (6 votes) --Semyon 20:58, May 1, 2015 (UTC)
 * 3 votes. 77topaz (talk) 22:57, May 1, 2015 (UTC)

Comments
In case everyone's gonna vote for himself, I might consider putting up a candidacy too :o --O u WTB 17:42, April 30, 2015 (UTC)

The CNP cannot support the communists like Maria nor can we align ourselves with UL as they are not clear on their aims and are too far left to merit our support at this stage. Further we cannot support the CCPL due to issues and declining relations during the campaign with some members. We will propose a moderate government, that many in Congress could support. Hoffmann Kunarian TALK 20:46, April 30, 2015 (UTC)

But AMWM is the best. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 20:49, April 30, 2015 (UTC)

I have a reasonable but radical plan to put this country back into the hands of its citizens. To describe me as a communist is imbecilic fearmongering but exactly what I would expect from a party like the CNP. Sadly, Hoffmann's platform is the best of a meagre offering; he is the only candidate to offer any kind of changes that could influence Lovians' lives for the better. As for Abrahams' and Hardy's platforms, they are worryingly vague and most likely the cover for right-wing extremism. I expected offerings of this level of sophistication from our pathetic current crop of politicians but none the less it is deeply saddening that Lovia is so badly served by its so-called leaders. Shocking as it is to contemplate, I must confess the absence of the lily-livered liberals from the list of candidates is maleficient to our national wellbeing. Anna Maria Whithdonck-Malsky 21:06, April 30, 2015 (UTC)

@TM: AMWM is gay though :'( --O u WTB 08:32, May 1, 2015 (UTC)

It says on her page she has a husband. :P 77topaz (talk) 10:23, May 1, 2015 (UTC)

It's a cover. She looks like a dyke :'( --O u WTB 10:59, May 1, 2015 (UTC)

I think I'm just going to let everyone else respond to that. :P 77topaz (talk) 11:09, May 1, 2015 (UTC)

It becomes clear that there is no support for true progressive reform in this nation - a fact sadifying, yet unsurprising. I am retreating from this race, and wish to thank all those who endorsed me, in particular SLP, whose support showed uncharacteristic foresight and bravery. Anna Maria Whithdonck-Malsky 20:10, May 1, 2015 (UTC)

20-22-21-3-7-19. With 92 of the 100 congresspeople having voted already, this is looking like a rather inconclusive vote. :o 77topaz (talk) 11:00, May 3, 2015 (UTC)



Due to the inability to gather enough support, I have decided to withdraw my candidacy. I jointly endorse Katie Conroy and Lukas Hoffmann. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 12:47, May 3, 2015 (UTC)

I would like to thank my colleagues for their support. Tomorrow I will outline a proposal for a government for people to look at as MOTCs continue to choose Lovia's next Prime Minister Frijoles333 TALK 22:06, May 3, 2015 (UTC)

New elections
I request new elections. This will become one great mess Pierlot McCrooke 21:22, May 1, 2015 (UTC)

Not true. If another government does not come into being, the old government will continue. Hoffmann Kunarian TALK 21:30, May 1, 2015 (UTC)

Maybe it'll come to that. :P I think the mess will tidy itself soon, though. --Semyon 21:34, May 1, 2015 (UTC)

Well, it remains to be seen whether anyone will be able to get majority support for a government proposal. :o 77topaz (talk) 02:03, May 2, 2015 (UTC)

I oppose new elections because we just have had them MartijnM (talk) 18:10, May 2, 2015 (UTC)

Ministries
Why don't we just leave the PM shit for now and first decide on who wants which ministries. Just sign where you like. --O u WTB 12:34, May 3, 2015 (UTC)


 * Monarch: King Sebastian I of Lovia (not debatable)
 * PM: a takavíhki person :'(
 * Agriculture:
 * Commerce:
 * Culture:
 * Defence:
 * User:Kunarian
 * User:Traspes
 * User:Vivaporius
 * Education:
 * User:TimeMaster
 * Energy and resources:
 * User:Vivaporius
 * Environment:
 * User:Bart K
 * User:77topaz
 * Social Affairs:
 * User:Traspes
 * User:Frijoles333
 * Family, youth and elderly:
 * User:Ooswesthoesbes
 * Finance:
 * User:Vivaporius
 * Foreign affairs:
 * User:Frijoles333
 * Health:
 * User:TimeMaster
 * HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 14:38, May 3, 2015 (UTC)
 * User:Frijoles333
 * Justice:
 * User:Vivaporius
 * Labour:
 * Minorities:
 * User:MartijnM
 * Tourism and sport:
 * User:77topaz
 * Transportation:
 * Science:
 * User:77topaz
 * Speaker of the congress (nobody cares :o):
 * User:Vivaporius ;)
 * :o :'(
 * Minorities:
 * User:MartijnM
 * Tourism and sport:
 * User:77topaz
 * Transportation:
 * Science:
 * User:77topaz
 * Speaker of the congress (nobody cares :o):
 * User:Vivaporius ;)
 * :o :'(
 * Speaker of the congress (nobody cares :o):
 * User:Vivaporius ;)
 * :o :'(
 * :o :'(

002. Hoffmann II Government (now with much less conventions)

 * PM:
 * Lukas Hoffmann (Kunarian)
 * Agriculture:
 * Rakham Tarik Al-Asmari (Viva)
 * Commerce:
 * Neil Hardy (Happy)
 * Culture:
 * George Wrexley (TheMaster001)
 * Defence:
 * Lukas Hoffmann (Kunarian)
 * Education:
 * William Krosby (Time)
 * Energy and resources:
 * Nicholas Sheraldin (Topaz)
 * Environment:
 * Bart Koenen (Bart)
 * Social Affairs:
 * Katie Konroy (Frijoles)
 * Family, youth and elderly:
 * Oos Wes Ilava (Oos)
 * Finance:
 * William Krosby (Time)
 * Foreign affairs:
 * Aina Sarria (Traspes)
 * Health:
 * Justin Abrahams (Horton)
 * Justice:
 * Charles Jones (4Kant)
 * Labour:
 * Justin Abrahams (Horton)
 * Minorities:
 * Martijn Mans (Martijn)
 * Tourism and sport:
 * Neil Hardy (Happy)
 * Transportation:
 * Oos Wes Ilava (Oos)
 * Science:
 * (Semyon, when he makes a moderate MotC)
 * Speaker of the congress:
 * Borya Hájek (Kunarian)

Feel free to change the names as appropriate.

The above list is my proposed government. It is designed to try and represent the spread of power in the Congress between the parties and allocate Ministries to those with the most interest in said areas and to make sure everyone has something they can focus on. This government is designed to not allow a lurch to the left or right in great degrees but to focus the best policies in the places where they are most needed at the current times.

My proposed budget will be one that aims for a minor deficit, investing in the economy to help it grow, with the intention to pay the debt off next Congress. We shall ensure low taxes on the poorest and try and raise L$2-3 billion (from the current L$8 billion in the economy) to fund government expenditure. I will ask that States do not levy taxes while we rebalance and repair the States that are in most need. We will aim to devolve spending down to Ministries and States where applicable and encourage Ministers to take an active role in allocating resources.

I will personally be introducing the following bills to Congress over the coming months as part of my main aims. They are listed in no particular order.


 * Constitutional Reform Bills
 * Congressional Reform Bill - a bill to reduce the effect of inactives on Congress
 * Second State Reform Bill - a bill to rebalance power between state and federal level
 * State Investment Fund Bill - a bill to introduce controlled economic investment by States
 * Adult Education Bill - a bill to introduce supported adult education, particularly education of the unemployed
 * Trade Disputes Bill - a bill to give unions and workers powers over their labour, and to regulate disputes
 * Health Reform Bills
 * National Health Service Bill - a bill to create a national health service, replacing state models
 * Tripartite Care Bill - a bill to ensure physical, mental and social care are integrated
 * Housing Reform Bills
 * Social Rents Bill - a bill to create a requirement for state and federal governments to provide social rents to the neediest
 * Home Building Bill - a bill to create a system of support for building, repairing and renovating homes
 * Defence Bills
 * Firearms Reform Bill - a bill to change and better regulate how firearms are controlled in Lovia
 * Militia Reform Bill - a bill to provide for greater ability to persecute insurgents and militia groups
 * Education Reform Bills
 * School Building Bill - a bill to create a system of support for building, repairing and renovating schools
 * Educational Board Reform Bill - a bill to create one universal educational board to provide official qualifications regulation

Everyone who is in Congress will obviously be able to partake in these debates, and we'll hopefully - as we have in the past - come to a reasonable conclusion on each debate and create many good laws and reforms. These bills that I will introduce do not obviously mean others cannot contribute other bills. I encourage people to come to Congress with issues or ideas so we may debate them and see if legislation is needed.

I propose this with the hope that we can get onto governing and legislating as soon as possible. Hoffmann Kunarian TALK 15:03, May 3, 2015 (UTC)

Discussion
I am happy to accept suggestions for a replacement speaker. As I will only take the role if no one else is interested in the responsibilities that the role brings. Hoffmann Kunarian TALK 15:06, May 3, 2015 (UTC)

Looks good :) --QytokantFRÅGOR??? 18:45, May 3, 2015 (UTC)

Pro :o --O u WTB 11:32, May 4, 2015 (UTC)

Me too. Bart K (talk) 12:45, May 4, 2015 (UTC)

I will probably change the speaker to either Topaz or Time before I move this to the Second Chamber. Hoffmann Kunarian TALK 15:27, May 4, 2015 (UTC)

I am fine with you as Speaker. Prö! —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 16:15, May 4, 2015 (UTC)

I emphatically veto this proposal. It is yet another example of the conservative elite attempting to subvert our democracy. The left-wing has made immense sacrifices in order to agree on a single prime ministerial candidate, whose candidacy by-the-by has over double the support in congress than Mr. Hoffmann's. We will not now allow our clear electoral victory to be wrested from us by a failed prime minister with no record and no mandate. Mr. Hoffmann's claim that he alone can unite left and right - if it were true, which it is patently not - stands in astonishing contrast to his leadership of an extremist party, refuge of many fascists, war criminals and IGPmen. Were all attempts by the left to form a government to prove futile, the basic principle of democracy would demand that I endorse the Christofascist Mr. Hardy over the discredited Mr. Hoffmann. Anna Maria Whithdonck-Malsky 16:59, May 4, 2015 (UTC)

Will Martijn be active enough to be a minister, though? And, the ministry he expressed interest in was Minorities, which is quite a diferent ministry to MoTaS. The same goes for Bart, who has had long periods of little activity in th past few years, although he's become more active as of late, so if he can keep that up, he might be active enough. 77topaz (talk) 23:13, May 5, 2015 (UTC)

But he did get Minorities. :o —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 23:16, May 5, 2015 (UTC)

Whoops, I read that wrong. Then the same message I wrote for the Conroy I government applies. 77topaz (talk) 23:19, May 5, 2015 (UTC)

Actually, I didn't read that wrong. In the list in the Second Chamber for the Hoffmann II Government Martijn is listed at Tourism and Sport, and Minorities isn't even in that list, so that should be fixed. 77topaz (talk) 10:07, May 6, 2015 (UTC)

Corrected. Also on the concerns of inactivity for ministers, I feel that they will contribute sufficiently to be able to be granted a ministry. Their long term activity is better than most and while they don't perhaps contribute to the wiki as a whole as much as others Martijn does normally take an interest in the Chambers and elections and Bart is becoming more active recently. Each only have one ministry and I hope they contribute fully, others in the past have been active but not contributed to their ministries at all whether they have had one, two or three and I think I might do something about scrutiny of ministers in this Congress. Hoffmann Kunarian TALK 11:01, May 6, 2015 (UTC)

003. Hardy I Government

 * PM:
 * Neil Hardy (Happy)
 * Agriculture:
 * George Wrexley (TM001)
 * Commerce:
 * Bart Koenen (Bart K)
 * Culture:
 * Arthur Sythey (Sithlent)
 * Defence:
 * Lukas Hoffmann/Aina Sarria (Kunarian/Traspes)
 * Education:
 * William Krosby (Time)
 * Energy and resources:
 * Rakham Tarik Al-Asmari (Viva)
 * Environment:
 * Bart Koenen (Bart)
 * Social Affairs:
 * Katie Konroy (Frijoles)
 * Family, youth and elderly:
 * Oos Wes Ilava (Oos)
 * Finance:
 * William Krosby (Time)
 * Foreign affairs:
 * Aina Sarria/Lukas Hoffmann (Traspes/Kunarian)
 * Health:
 * Justin Abrahams (Horton)
 * Justice:
 * Charles Jones (4kant)
 * Labour:
 * Justin Abrahams (Horton)
 * Minorities:
 * Martijn Mans (Martijn)
 * Tourism and sport:
 * Neil Hardy/Nicholas Sheraldin (Happy/Topaz)
 * Transportation:
 * Oos Wes Ilava (Oos)
 * Science:
 * Anna-Maria Whitdonck-Malsky (Semyon)
 * Speaker of the Congress:
 * Nicolas Sheraldin (Topaz)

The proposed Hardy I Government would look to create an active and stable congress, including parties from across the spectrum. We feel it is necessary to create a National Health Service, replacing the current system, whereby not all states currently have an active health service. We look to work closely with proposed Minister of Education William Krosby, creating a national education board and providing funds to renovate poor schools. We also look to reduce the effect of inactive members of the congress by creating an edit criteria in the terms of congress members. We look to protect minority languages and culture and teach minority languages in late primary, secondary and tertiary education. We look to impose Animal protection laws, and make sure animal cruelty will be punished.

004. Conroy I Government

 * Prime Minister
 * Katie Conroy
 * Agriculture
 * Nicholas Sheraldin (Topaz)
 * Commerce
 * Charles Jones (Subject to discussion with 4kant and Kun)
 * Culture
 * William Krosby (TM)
 * Defence
 * Lukas Hoffmann (Subject to discussion with Kun)
 * Education
 * William Krosby (TM)
 * Energy and Resources
 * Aina Sarria (Traspes)
 * Environment
 * Justin Abrahams (Horton)
 * Social Affairs
 * Aina Sarria (Traspes)
 * Family, Youth and Elderly
 * Lovian Future character (Frijoles)
 * Finance
 * Justin Abrahams (Horton)
 * Foreign Affairs
 * Lovian Future character (Frijoles)
 * Health
 * Justin Abrahams (Horton)
 * Justice
 * Rakham Tarik Al-Asmari (Viva)
 * Labour
 * AMWM (Semyon)
 * Minorities
 * AMWM (Semyon)
 * Tourism and Sport
 * Neil Hardy (Happy, subject to support from Hardy)
 * Transportation
 * Lovian Future character (Frijoles)
 * Science
 * Nicholas Sheraldin (Topaz)
 * Speaker
 * Neil Hardy (Happy, subject to support from Hardy)

This is my government proposal. It is a response to calls from throughout our country for a more progressive government.

The following are the policy areas on which I wish to focus over the coming months. I seek to propose the following acts in Congress, in hope of a re-energised and vibrant Lovia.


 * State Governments Act- We seek to open a dialogue with groups from across the spectrum in order to reform how state governments work. Ultimately, our goal is for State Councils to have control over issues such as culture, language, environment and education, with the federal government taking on more responsibility for policy areas such as housing, healthcare and welfare.
 * National Healthcare Act- As mentioned above, we will legislate for a national framework of physical, mental and social healthcare, incorporating the existing state healthcare systems. We hope this will end disparity and inequality between the healthcare services of state governments.
 * Higher Education Act- We will provide further investment in our universities, and open a discussion on tuition fees, with the aim of abolishing them, or at the very least putting a cap on them. This act will also promote higher vocational education and work-based training
 * Housing Act- We will seek to resolve problems with housing across Lovia, with a system of social housing, and increased federal investment in homebuilding.

In addition, I will also seek to implement minor legislation in the following policy areas:
 * Minor amendments to Primary and Secondary Education Acts- Creation of Qualified Teacher Status (QTS) to guarantee high standards of teaching in all Lovian schools
 * Support for working families- We will introduce childcare vouchers to ensure that parents of young children are able to balance work with their family life. We will also consider a system of paid parental leave for new parents, to be shared between both parents

We hope this plan for stable leadership will provide for a more prosperous, progressive Lovia that all citizens can benefit from- Frijoles333 TALK 16:30, May 4, 2015 (UTC)

A list of ministry positions will be added momentarily pending further discussion

Discussion
Freshman leader of a seven seat party as PM? Can't support this. :o —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 16:32, May 4, 2015 (UTC)

Freshman leader of a farily popular new party? Deserves a chance at proving herself and I could support this. HORTON11 : •  16:33, May 4, 2015 (UTC)

Katie Conroy is inexperienced and thus unacceptable as PM. Frijoles is fine but would have to make a character with much more political experience. Shut up, Horton. :o —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 16:34, May 4, 2015 (UTC)

Time, we would not make an issue out of this if it were you with a freshman character Frijoles333 TALK 16:34, May 4, 2015 (UTC)

I wouldn't put a freshman candidate up for PM. :o —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 16:36, May 4, 2015 (UTC)

But if you did, I wouldn't get all cray-cray about it :o Frijoles333 TALK 16:38, May 4, 2015 (UTC)

We're both fairly tolerant and wouldn't go ranting and gettign angry. HORTON11 : •  16:39, May 4, 2015 (UTC)

Is TM getting angry? :o --Semyon 16:43, May 4, 2015 (UTC)
 * To clarify, the above was a rhetorical question. It doesn't appear to me that he is. --Semyon 17:03, May 4, 2015 (UTC)
 * :o —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 17:20, May 4, 2015 (UTC)

Too inexperienced. Also, the complete lack of CCPL makes me veto this. --O u WTB 18:42, May 4, 2015 (UTC)

Several parties on the left (and AMWM of course) expressed an interest in a CCPL-less government, and this is a response to those calls. I'm sure the CCPL will still have fun debating on our bills in Congress :o Frijoles333 TALK 18:51, May 4, 2015 (UTC)

This won't get a majority without CNP and SLP, plus Wrexley being inactive further jeopardizes it. :o —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 20:28, May 4, 2015 (UTC)


 * Check the statistics Time. We currently are ahead on votes, so if our proposal can't get a majority, no one else's can either. MOTCs have thrown their weight behind this proposal, and you seem to be the only one who has issues with Katie :o Frijoles333 TALK 20:30, May 4, 2015 (UTC)

You probably put me as Agriculture because I nominated myself for Environment, but Agriculture is nearly the opposite of that ministry. :P 77topaz (talk) 11:10, May 5, 2015 (UTC)

Yeah. the first is mostly protecting the land, the second is mostly exploiting it :P I don't mind at all Topaz environment though. He'd be good for that, and then maybe we'd get a national park for the only state who has none. HORTON11 : •  13:02, May 5, 2015 (UTC)


 * Thanks for letting me know, Topaz. I'll move you to environment then before I move this to the Second Chamber :P Frijoles333 TALK 15:58, May 5, 2015 (UTC)

Oh, and one more thing: Happy didn't actually say he wanted to be MoTaS again in the interest section, and why should we have one CCPL minister when some of the others (AMWM etc., don't want to work with them? 77topaz (talk) 23:03, May 5, 2015 (UTC)


 * Cuz he needs 50 votes. :o —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 23:17, May 5, 2015 (UTC)


 * Unlike you Time, I'm not betraying my voters in order to pander to my ideological rivals, so don't lecture me on that. Frijoles333 TALK 17:33, May 6, 2015 (UTC)


 * I didn't make any promises not to work with CCPL, and all of my voters except maybe Semyon (since I think he's just doing this IC :P) are not opposed to CCPL. :o And I don't see how I'm lecturing you on stating that you need 50 votes, which you won't get. :o —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 19:37, May 6, 2015 (UTC)


 * You stated several times that "you couldn't support a CCPL government". You're lecturing me by implying that I only included Happy because I wanted votes. Not true. Perhaps I included him because I saw that you (and others) disagreed with a complete lack of CCPL. And you're contradicting yourself AGAIN... you previously said, on this very thread, that a "complete lack" of CCPL was another reason you voted against my proposal. I get it. I know you don't want me as PM, and I know that I probably won't become PM, but I'm getting a little tired of all these negative comments on my proposal :o Frijoles333 TALK 19:47, May 6, 2015 (UTC)


 * :o I don't disagree with the lack of CCPL (I have no strong feelings either way), I just don't think Conroy is a good choice for PM for multiple IC reasons I've already stated. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 20:15, May 6, 2015 (UTC)


 * @Topaz: Although I didn't want the CCPL in government, I don't want to burn bridges with my congressional colleagues. Hope that you and other leftist colleagues are still able to support this Frijoles333 TALK 17:33, May 6, 2015 (UTC)


 * Yeah, but he can get 50 votes with LF+UL+CNP+GP+RI+SLP+AMWM as well. :P 77topaz (talk) 23:20, May 5, 2015 (UTC)
 * But CNP, SLP, 1/3 of GP, and 1/4 of UL aren't voting this. :o Btw, I'm on chat. :o —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 23:29, May 5, 2015 (UTC)
 * But if the Hoffman II Government ends up without a majority, they'll probably support this over the Hardy I Government. 77topaz (talk) 23:54, May 5, 2015 (UTC)
 * I'd think that if I don't fully like either Conroy's or Hardy's proposals and if other people don't like them, then rather than support the least worst, they'll support neither. Hoffmann LogoCNP2wt.png Kunarian TALK 00:33, May 6, 2015 (UTC)
 * Additionally, I don't think the inclusion of one CCPL minister would be enough to garner their support (Oos has already voted contra), so Hardy's inclusion just lessens the potential votes for the government. 77topaz (talk) 10:05, May 6, 2015 (UTC)

Also, the lists in the First and Second Chambers for the Conroy I government aren't exactly the same. 77topaz (talk) 10:01, May 6, 2015 (UTC)


 * Yes, a few minor adjustments have been made. I hope I can still rely on your support though Topaz :) Frijoles333 TALK 17:28, May 6, 2015 (UTC)

005. Overrule Oceana State Government on Deer Garden Temple
It appears that parties like RTP and OSB, and perhaps others, have conspired to disallow mild funding of the Deer Garden Temple, and allow it to be demolished. I propose to overrule the Oceana State Government on this, and provide $5,000/year for maintenance to allow the temple to break even. I also propose to condemn the RTP and OSB for showing religious favoritism, violating our principles of separation of church and state in this nation, in desiring to build a mega-church on the site. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 00:31, May 6, 2015 (UTC)
 * First of all, in line with separation of church and state, I am not sure anyone should be funding this. Further I am of the thought that neither should any government of Lovia, state or federal, be purchasing lands or building religious buildings or funding religious matters. This should be left to private religious individuals and groups.


 * Of course I will further look into the situation and aim to ensure I am fully informed. Hoffmann LogoCNP2wt.png Kunarian TALK 00:36, May 6, 2015 (UTC)
 * Good point. :o But I am mainly concerned about the fact that OSB and RTP blocked a very modest proposal to maintain the temple. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 00:37, May 6, 2015 (UTC)
 * My colleague in the Oceana State Council has brought the matter to attention. Hoffmann LogoCNP2wt.png Kunarian TALK 01:02, May 6, 2015 (UTC)
 * :o --O u WTB 08:56, May 6, 2015 (UTC)
 * Anyway, in defence of the State of Oceana, the temple was constructed illegally in 2011, and it is still an agricultural (light green) lot instead of an administrative one (grey). So, the temple shouldn't be there in the first place. --O u WTB 09:20, May 6, 2015 (UTC)
 * I agree with Kun on this one. The government should not interfere in matters of religion. An interesting issue to be added at this stage in the discussions, might I add Frijoles333 TALK 17:26, May 6, 2015 (UTC)

006. Abolish Monarchy and Heretowships
I propose to abolish the monarchy and heretowships. The monarchy would need a 2/3 majority to pass (and would constitute removal of several parts of Article I), while the heretowships would need a normal majority. Thoughts? —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 21:19, May 8, 2015 (UTC)
 * These positions are an affront to the meritocratic society Lovia claims to be and especially insult women. Anna Maria Whithdonck-Malsky 22:06, May 8, 2015 (UTC)
 * I support it. No more Heretow 'Oshenna and no monarchy. Lovia is a modern country and dosen't need anymore the monarchy. Traspes - Dianna Bartol LOGO POSITIVE BLOCK.png 01:20, May 9, 2015 (UTC)
 * I support the move to abolish the monarchy. Flag of the Xanian Empire.svg Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 01:45, May 9, 2015 (UTC)

The Party for the Northern Territory declares neutrality on these matters but stresses that a referendum is necessary for the monarchy and that after a recent referendum a new one is unnecessary. Dimitri Kalinnikov 01:36, May 9, 2015 (UTC)

I am completely against this. We've had a referendum recently and there was near consensus to not abolish the monarchy. And you shouldn't go against the wishes of the Oceana people by abolishing the Heretow 'Oshenna position, Happy65 07:52, May 9, 2015 (UTC)

Good luck updating all pages. --O u WTB 09:26, May 9, 2015 (UTC)

I'd have to see a referendum for the monarchy. I personally like it but if a majority of Lovians via a vote prefer a republic I wouldn't be heavily opposed. Now, on the heretow, I don't support the use of the position for his political aims and gains. I'd prefer a heretow as a cultural leader instead of being a further tool to continue with the hegemony over Oceana. HORTON11 : •  22:01, May 9, 2015 (UTC)

A referendum? We already had one last year, and the near consensus decision was to stay as a monarchy. With all the effort Oos has put in to Oceana, he deserves to be the Heretow. And furthermore, '.... the Heretow has no political function..." is not for his political aims and gains. So, the only political function he has is to influence politics through speeches? Feel free to head over to the Speakers' Corner and make a speech. Any one can.

This new government is completely destroying Lovia. I can't believe that parties such as the Social Liberal Party, the Green Party and United Left have supported what has happened here. CCPL has always included other parties in government, despite our ideological differences. We've negotiated on our policies and have managed to create a stable Lovia with a wide range of pages, people from across the spectrum working at their favoured ministry.

But as soon as you are able to make a coalition that excludes CCPL you take your opportunity. The new government seems to be against all minorities, in particular failing to include the Limburgish Minority Party. It'll be interesting to see the mess Lovia turns in to. Happy65 08:43, May 10, 2015 (UTC)

007. Recognise the Religious Status of the Northern States
The North has long been god-fearing and thus we need to recognise the proper religious status of the various territories in the Northern States. These religious status' should ensure that all schools in the area teach good moral values. Further funding should be devolved to support religious events, especially religious event that bring Christians together, particularly in Seven.

We propose that Clymene be recognised as a Catholic/Protestant religious State. And that American island in Seven be considered Protestant while Philosophers island be considered Orthodox, all other islands will be considered a mixture of Catholic/Protestant/Orthodox. This will ensure that societies are stable and morally unified.

I would hope that the funding would be to the tune of L$10,000,000 for the religious events. As we must make lots of these events to be able to truly generate a unified spirit in the North. Dimitri Kalinnikov 02:32, May 9, 2015 (UTC)

There's a separation of church and state in Lovia. :P 77topaz (talk) 02:39, May 9, 2015 (UTC)

This is not outlined anywhere. The North deserves to have its heratage protected. Dimitri Kalinnikov 03:02, May 9, 2015 (UTC)

You yourself implied a separation of church and state two sections above this. :P 77topaz (talk) 03:15, May 9, 2015 (UTC)
 * Those were the thoughts and feelings of Hoffmann. I cannot be held accountable for his words. The North must be given the recognition it deserves. Dimitri Kalinnikov 03:17, May 9, 2015 (UTC)

008. AMWM Plans
We should come up with some legislation we want to pass soon. In order to begin the proper transition to socialism, I think we should aim to make laws putting industry in the hands of the workers. In the meantime, we should reform health, educations, state governments, etc. I would like volunteers to help write laws. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 18:55, May 9, 2015 (UTC)

Happy65 19:05, May 9, 2015 (UTC)

Interesting thought, thanks. I'll be sure to take it into consideration. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 19:29, May 9, 2015 (UTC)


 * I'm glad you appreciate my constructive ideas. Happy65 19:59, May 9, 2015 (UTC)

I, Dimitri Kalinnikov, would like to write reforms concerning the position of the North within this Union. Further I would like to reform education to create proper moral teachings in the schools of Clymene and Seven further we should increase funding for social events particularly of a religious nature or to bring northern communities together. Hoffmann Kunarian TALK 20:04, May 9, 2015 (UTC)

Have we fallen silent on our plans? Bart K (talk) 10:01, May 12, 2015 (UTC)

We're waiting for AMWM to die from radiation in Burenia :o --QytokantFRÅGOR??? 13:35, May 12, 2015 (UTC)

How far are we already with nuking? :o --O u WTB 13:56, May 12, 2015 (UTC)

We've nuked every island except Sārac :o --QytokantFRÅGOR??? 14:08, May 12, 2015 (UTC)

They dead now? :o --O u WTB 14:09, May 12, 2015 (UTC)

Kòb's people are indeed dead :o --QytokantFRÅGOR??? 16:59, May 12, 2015 (UTC)

Who we gonna send as an army now then? :o --O u WTB 17:25, May 12, 2015 (UTC)

Are we then going to send an army? :o --QytokantFRÅGOR??? 18:25, May 12, 2015 (UTC)

Yes :o --O u WTB 18:37, May 12, 2015 (UTC)