Forum:The Pub

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nl:Forum:De kroegli:Forum:De Kaffeero:RoWikicity:Cafeneasv:Forum:Krogen Welcome to The Pub! This is the general meeting place in Lovia. Inhabitants can make public announcements, have a friendly chat with some copatriots, or discuss crucial issues in Lovian politics or business. Speeches can also be made at Speakers' Corner. All archives of The Pub can be found here.

An update on recent events
As you may or may not have noticed, I have decided to join Lovia for the time being, as I feel I quite enjoy writing in English -it vastly improves my vocab and general language skills, so yeah...- and I also miss the great, chaotic user base of the combined compendium of wiki states, whatever that means. I enjoyed Libertas to a certain extent, Llamada massively, the Harvian Islands also as it was my own project, but most of all I enjoyed Lovia, so here I am! I suddenly remembered my old password as well, so I have decided to log in once more on this account to confirm that I am indeed Cadaro, and not some silly poseur. I want to dissociate my name from my internet identity however, not for weird reasons, but just because I like to control how many people know who I am and what I do, so I have chosen to continue as Cadaro.

I also want to apologize to -Sunkist-. Some shit went down in the chat and I insulted -Sunkist- behind his back because I felt personally attacked by the subject of the discussion and -Sunkist-'s opinion on those matters. I am not apologizing for who I am, nor am I apologizing because I feel that my response was unjustified, but I am a firm believer in pacifism and peaceful, open dialogue, so I want to say sorry to -Sunkist- for talking behind his back. I hope you accept my apologies, and if you want to talk about it, PM me and we'll arrange a time to chat about it. If not, that's fine by me too.

Anyhow, how you'll doing happy muddafuckers! :)

SjorskingmaWikistad (talk) 15:59, May 27, 2013 (UTC)

One of those times again
Hey everyone it's one of those times again in which lovian politics hyper-actively merges and disbands. Me and Horton were thinking about another possible merger or creation of a new Party. It would of course be open to any leftist party which wants in. If enough people do it were in and will be able to create a new force in Lovian Politics! It will be promoted through people like you, grassroots activism and unions alike. We will support social liberalism to social democracy, environmentalism and progressive ideals! Come and post your party! Marcus/Michael Villanova 19:34, May 27, 2013 (UTC)
 * Labour
 * Horton's SCP wing

Let's just undo the creation of the SCP and call it that. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 19:46, May 27, 2013 (UTC)

Tbh that's what i wanted too but if others join along then sure we'll do it. Marcus/Michael Villanova 19:48, May 27, 2013 (UTC)

Well the SCP already happened so it's best to leave it at that. BTW we should start drawing u a few logos. HORTON11 : •  19:51, May 27, 2013 (UTC)

We could simply revert it to the state it was before the secession of like 14 MOTCs to it, I mean. The main conflict I see is the new Labour Deputy Leader, but Abrahams could resign for other reasons. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 19:58, May 27, 2013 (UTC)

When would this start Frijoles333 / Marcel Cebara (talk) 20:08, May 27, 2013 (UTC)

It's better not to change history. Don't know yet when it would start, though I would be willing to join now if it's agreed to. HORTON11 : •  20:09, May 27, 2013 (UTC)

Idk, it is better not to change history you know for practical reasons. Inouye could stay leader until the election and  fail to get re--elected but if this new party is made (which will need other parties) he could of course just join along in the leadership. Marcus/Michael Villanova 20:15, May 27, 2013 (UTC)

Another proposal, what do you guys think? HORTON11 : •  20:19, May 27, 2013 (UTC)

I like the second one more Frijoles333 / Marcel Cebara (talk) 20:20, May 27, 2013 (UTC)

Thanks! I also like the Lovian SDP logo and the PES one too (I have a preference for suared modern logos). HORTON11 : •  20:26, May 27, 2013 (UTC)


 * A couple more I found were nice, simple but nice:  .  HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 20:38, May 27, 2013 (UTC)
 * ehhh i like the more new-er logos these were oldish. The PES logo is just the Progressive Democrats of course that is a good logo too maybe a reboot of that? Marcus/Michael Villanova 20:41, May 27, 2013 (UTC
 * Any takers? :L Marcus/Michael Villanova 22:35, May 28, 2013 (UTC)
 * I only really want Horton and maybe Cadaro to take the offer up so that Labour can be a much more relevant party again. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 00:06, May 29, 2013 (UTC)

Bank Acquisition
The National Bank of Lovia would like to acquire the following inactive banking corporations. Joining these banks into the National Bank of Lovia will give rise to a more efficent and quicker banking atmosphere for users in Lovia.
 * NBL
 * Aventis National Bank
 * Bank of Noble City
 * First National Bank
 * Pacific Bank and Insurance
 * Sofasi Diamond Bank
 * The Exchange Bank

Chairman of the National Bank of Lovia


 * Cynthiana Miller 

-Sunkist- (talk) 01:56, May 28, 2013 (UTC)

I thought the National Bank was only supposed to print and regulate Lovia's currency, and not to interact with the commercial banks? 77topaz (talk) 04:50, May 28, 2013 (UTC)

Well, the National Bank of Lovia is different than the National Reserve. -Sunkist- (talk) 04:56, May 28, 2013 (UTC)

This bank doesn't look to be owned by the government. Why, then, is it called "the" National Bank, and why would these banks be mergered into it? 77topaz (talk) 05:03, May 28, 2013 (UTC)

Because just like the Bank of America, it just a name. The banks are inactive, so why not put them under an active bank? ---Sunkist- (talk) 05:10, May 28, 2013 (UTC)

I agree we should do something with these inactive banks. But they shouldn't all merge into one big bank, especially not a National one :) --O u WTBsjrief-mich 05:17, May 28, 2013 (UTC)

I don't see a reason why not too. -Sunkist- (talk) 05:19, May 28, 2013 (UTC)

We should do something, but a super-bank is not the way to go, we don't need a monopoly. And Sunkist, a couple of the banks on the list have been defunct for over 50 years (NC Bank and Exchange Bank). HORTON11 : •  05:48, May 28, 2013 (UTC)

Alright, well if you don't want a super bank, can I at least try and work in making like two or three major banking corporations? I'll work on each page. -Sunkist- (talk) 06:16, May 28, 2013 (UTC)
 * I'd say: leave out the two defunct banks and try to merge them into some already existing active banks. Alternatively, merge them into two new banks. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 16:24, May 28, 2013 (UTC)
 * I would like to keep FNB independent, and Aventis, as our nation's largest bank, should also be independent. HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 16:45, May 28, 2013 (UTC)
 * Well, if you go look around at the avaliable spaces, they are all occupied with inactive banks, and a town in Lovia should not have three banks. And why did you just make a new bank when you already have plenty? -Sunkist- (talk) 20:43, May 28, 2013 (UTC)

Capitalist monopolies are not our friend. I suggest we stick to a financial market with a myriad of banks, instead of one (or 2-3) big, scary banks. You are always free to excel consumer-wise in such a way that your bank will become the biggest of Lovia. In any case, I'd like to open a bank account at The National Bank of Lovia. Cadaro (talk) 20:03, May 28, 2013 (UTC)


 * Splendid! I'm actually trying to keep a record of citizens of Lovia's money, just send me a PM of how much you want to deposit and I'll work with the interest rate. And if you want a retirement fund, investing into stocks, just tell me! -Sunkist- (talk) 20:40, May 28, 2013 (UTC)

Realism
I have always wondered how realistic we want Lovia to become. I suspect many contributors differ in opinion on this matter (compare the larger-than-life characters of TMV/Magnus and the political realism of Michael). I want to stir up some discussion. How much realism do we want? I.e. what articles/important subjects/concepts still miss, what about the simplified neighborhood maps and the impossibility of housing 200,000+ people in a few salmon-coloured squares. Do we adhere to the QSS principle as seen on the althistory wikia? Heck, how big is Lovia even? Malta? Cyprus? Palau? Cape Verde?

In my humble opinion, too much realism and afterthought destroys the "fun" part of the wiki, but have always resented the blocky town maps, and too some extent the massive amount of companies in such a small nation. I even wrote a "book" on it, trying to explain some of it in a realistic way. What about you guys? Cadaro (talk) 21:53, May 28, 2013 (UTC)

Well, we've slowly been splitting user-matters (out of character) and character-matters (in character), but that's not even close to being done with Congress, law, the various loose ends in other areas, and such. I like the companies (especially non-chains), but the number of multinational ones is surprising, so we've gotten to explaining it with Lovia's de jure status as a tax haven if we're going by a strict no law = no in character policy. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 23:56, May 28, 2013 (UTC)


 * We definitely need to take another look at realistically displaying maps of areas or at least making it so that 200,000 people can live and work realistically according to the maps. Company wise I completely agree that there are too many big companies that claim they earn billions and that they are the biggest bestest company in Lovia of their type. Its on my to do list of cleaning up the problems in Sylvania of setting a standard. Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 09:18, May 29, 2013 (UTC)

I suggest we look at four things:
 * 1) The lay-out of the neigborhood maps and their future. I wouldn't mind turning them into actual images with a tad more realism, while retaining the original lay-out. We could even keep the original neigborhood maps on the respective article with a mention that it is a simplified version, or maybe create a master page with the neighborhood maps to allow people to crowdsource alterations to the neigborhood maps, which can be implemented in the map images later on.
 * 2) The economy of Lovia. What misses? Should we clean up and merge/rewrite articles? Or is the current state of the economy okay. -Sunkist- took some steps in the right direction with an economic forum and one single bank, which is much more realistical for a country with 200,000 inhabitants.
 * 3) The history of Lovia. It needs some clean-up, as many articles contradict other articles. Also, it would be nice to have a canonical history which we can reference to.
 * 4) How we handle content. Does Quod Scripsi Scripsi appyly? What about the really weird, surreal stuff. Is there any inferior content written by users who weren't around for very long, which can be rewritten/deleted? Should we even delete content, however contradicting it may seem to the plans of the current generation of contributors?

Cadaro (talk) 13:58, May 29, 2013 (UTC)


 * 1) Maybe images should be used to make maps similar to the ones we use in Britain like the ordinance survey maps but under some different name for a Lovian version of these maps. We should keep the simplified versions to make it easy to see ownership and changes like that.
 * 2) I'm currently making an economy system, it gives a certain amount of supply and demand and will simulate things roughly so that we can get a better idea of what's going on as well as allowing us to point out to users when they are being unrealistic. And on banks, there can be many banks throughout Lovia, there can be twenty or there can be one, but people must understand that twenty banks will mean a financial sector divided between twenty, not times by twenty.
 * 3) We've done quite well with a rough outline for the history of Lovia. I'm planning to go back to it soon and help finish the rough outline so that people can start working on the final details.
 * 4) We should clean up content and ask for a certain amount of quality, quality articles written by users gone should be kept, adopted and preserved unless something is really wrong with them. Low quality articles that were written by users gone are up for either adoption and improvement or deletion.

These are my opinions of course but this is how I believe it should work. Hoffmann Kunarian TALK 14:17, May 29, 2013 (UTC)

Doniaville
Donia thinks we should rename Train Village to Doniaville. Sounds good to me. But anyway, he does, and Train Village doesn't sound very good so let's rename it to Doniaville! Happy65   Talk CNP   15:38, May 29, 2013 (UTC)


 * Yes, yes, yes! A thousend times yes. The Clan needs it. Lovia needs it. By all the gods and goddesses and all the powers invested in me, by the, by their divine judgement, so shall it be. Doniaville it shall be. Splendid! Exquisite! Glorious! The glorious First Consul of Rome (talk) 15:42, May 29, 2013 (UTC)


 * This is a joke for all of you that didn't know.  Happy65   Talk CNP  LogoCNP.png 15:53, May 29, 2013 (UTC)
 * So funny... *sniff* I forgot to laugh... The glorious First Consul of Rome (talk) 15:55, May 29, 2013 (UTC)


 * I'd support that Royale guy for king though, but you shouldn't really do it on your sockpuppet account.  He'd be pretty cool for the role.  Happy65   Talk CNP  LogoCNP.png 17:30, May 29, 2013 (UTC)
 * It's good to at least keep the throne within the family. BastardRoyale (talk) 12:43, May 30, 2013 (UTC)

Vote IGP for Train Village


Vote Ygo August Donia, for the IGP as mayor of Train Village tomorrow. Do so, and I will bring you peace, order, stability and a swift name change to rid us of that awful, sad, depressigly uninspired name "Train Village". A vote for Donia and the IGP is a vote for a new, vibrant and clean village, a community strong and flexible, safe and secure and well-prepared for the future. A vote for Donia and the IGP, in short, is a vote well-spent. The glorious First Consul of Rome (talk) 17:06, May 29, 2013 (UTC)

Huh? I thought you were trying to join the GP with Dalia Donia? :P 77topaz (talk) 20:28, May 29, 2013 (UTC)

TMV is a complex man. Hoffmann Kunarian TALK 20:46, May 29, 2013 (UTC)


 * Dalia is gonna be rebellious and join the Green Party in spite of her brother's right-wing aspirations. Maybe it's some leftover teen spirit, maybe it's an early midlife crisis or she wants to break free from her mainstream and bourgeois lifestyle? Meanwhile, Ygo's still the old war veteran, the rough clanlord, the robust pater familias. She chooses flowers and green, he chooses iron. Time for a new adventure. The glorious First Consul of Rome (talk) 20:50, May 29, 2013 (UTC)
 * Idk one day I just want the real user. Hes TMV hes DOnia he maybe Bastard Royale (i think he is) he maybe Drabo (idk about that one) hes a commie no hes a facist no hes an envrionmentalist. Idk man I jsut wanna know. Marcus/Michael Villanova 20:51, May 29, 2013 (UTC)
 * Come on chat now and I will tell you all you want to know. The glorious First Consul of Rome (talk) 20:52, May 29, 2013 (UTC)

Train Village
Remember that all citizens, regardless of what state they live in, can vote with a support vote in the Train Village local elections. If you are a resident of Sylvania, you have a minor vote too.

Vote Labour for growth and devolution in Train Village Frijoles333 / Marcel Cebara (talk) 07:49, May 30, 2013 (UTC)

Lovian Times Polling 30-31 May
Elections
 * 30-31 May 2013 - If a Federal Election happened tomorrow who would you give a major vote to?
 * 8 - Conservative Christian Party of Lovia
 * 2 - Social Christian Party
 * 2 - Social Liberal Party
 * 4 - Green Party
 * 3 - Conservative Nationalist Party
 * 3 - Labour Party
 * 2 - Other


 * 30-31 May 2013 - If a Federal Election happened tomorrow who would you give a minor vote to?
 * 6 - Conservative Christian Party of Lovia
 * 1 - Social Christian Party
 * 2 - Social Liberal Party
 * 6 - Green Party
 * 5 - Conservative Nationalist Party
 * 2 - Labour Party
 * 1 - Other


 * 30-31 May 2013 - If a Federal Election happened tomorrow who would you give a support vote to?
 * 2 - Conservative Christian Party of Lovia
 * 4 - Social Christian Party
 * 3 - Social Liberal Party
 * 2 - Green Party
 * 5 - Conservative Nationalist Party
 * 1 - Labour Party
 * 6 - Other

Approval
 * 30-31 May 2013 - Do you approve or disapprove of the Government's record to date?
 * 12 - Approve
 * 7 - Disapprove
 * 2 - Don't Know

Flavour Polling
 * 30-31 May 2013 - Do you think IGP should be allowed to resume it's activities as a party?
 * 14 - Yes
 * 5 - No
 * 1 - Don't Know


 * 30-31 May 2013 - If Local Elections in Charleston happened tomorrow who would you vote for?
 * 9 - Independent (Charles Bennett)
 * 2 - Social Christian Party
 * 5 - Labour Party
 * 5 - Other

Comments
Comments open up again, weekly polling back on. Flavour polling added due to interesting recent events, Charleston polling uses what I think are the three major forces in Charleston. Hoffmann Kunarian TALK 09:38, May 30, 2013 (UTC)

I personally think the major vote, minor vote, support vote system in these pollings should simply be changed to selecting your favorite, second favorite, and third favorite party to avoid voting for the same party, which is possible for virtually every party for actual Lovian citizens. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 19:51, May 30, 2013 (UTC)
 * I don't follow... You can't vote twice for one party, can you? I mean, I can't give one party both my major vote and my minor vote. Imho you are talking semantics, and it would be just a meaningless name change. Cadaro (talk) 19:59, May 30, 2013 (UTC)
 * You can vote for the same party twice, but not the same candidate. Time was making a suggestion for future polling in the pub. --Quarantine Zone (talk) 21:45, May 30, 2013 (UTC)
 * It's implied that you can't, but since elections are based on users, not parties, it should be changed to what I suggested. The current system (in this polling only, I'm talking about) allows you to give one party both your major and minor vote, which I want to change. So not meaningless. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 22:04, May 30, 2013 (UTC)

Polls close at 12 o clock GMT. Hoffmann Kunarian TALK 09:12, May 31, 2013 (UTC)
 * Polls closed (just a little late). Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 11:30, May 31, 2013 (UTC)


 * Anyway, I think you should change: 1. major vote to first choice party. 2. minor vote to second choice party. and 3. support vote to third choice party. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 11:03, May 31, 2013 (UTC)
 * I'm going to stick with this polling because it's a little inaccurate (which all polling is) but it gives a general idea of the mood at the moment. Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 11:30, May 31, 2013 (UTC)
 * Maybe I'll make my own polling. :P —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 20:13, May 31, 2013 (UTC)
 * Hey I think that's a great idea! :D Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 21:22, May 31, 2013 (UTC)

Vote SCP
Vote SCP in Train Village!

Reserved Section. To be added to.  Happy65   Talk CNP   20:04, May 30, 2013 (UTC)

Such a convincing argument :P The glorious First Consul of Rome (talk) 20:07, May 30, 2013 (UTC)


 * "Reserved section. To be added to."
 * - Happy65, 2013

And that's why I didn't vote SCP. Cadaro (talk) 23:26, May 30, 2013 (UTC)


 * Lol, it's the same thing on their policies. :P Happy and Horton, PLEASE disband SCP and return to your old parties. :'( —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 00:27, May 31, 2013 (UTC)
 * Lol let em be. Labour is sinking anyway. CNP doesn't need Happy and it fits our wacky political landscape its fine. Marcus/Michael Villanova 00:52, May 31, 2013 (UTC)


 * I know we're in such a terrrible position right now, but I've tried discussing policies with Horton, but he never seems to be online these days when I am.  Happy65   Talk CNP  LogoCNP.png 06:39, May 31, 2013 (UTC)
 * Just put down some policies on the talk page, leave Horton a message and tell him to look and them and tell you what he agrees with. You're not doing terrible you're just not doing much. Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 09:14, May 31, 2013 (UTC)
 * Personally, I think that they should simply join CCPL. As far as I can tell, the party is just slightly more progressive than CCPL. They're also fairly similar to MCP except that SCP Christian and a little more conservative. --Quarantine Zone (talk) 20:30, May 31, 2013 (UTC)

A 2013 Political Scale


In mid-2012, (right around this time of year actually), a few different political scales were made for the parties of that year. Such as the one displayed. For this year, if someone is up for making one, another political scale could be made with a new addition preferably. The marker that is used for each party could be a color that represents one's environmental position. --Quarantine Zone (talk) 22:01, May 30, 2013 (UTC)
 * I have no fucking clue where my party would be actually. That is one of the drawbacks of an "open ideology". I guess a bit off-set to the left. Also, midway between authoritarian and libertian. Cadaro (talk) 23:29, May 30, 2013 (UTC)
 * off the charts -Donia
 * No, not really. It would appear in the upper left quadrant. Reboot would probably be the farthest upper left quadrant of any existing party. Labour would be quite close to SDU as well. As party of CDP, I would be lower right quadrant. --Quarantine Zone (talk)
 * Authoritarian-Libertarian is this graph refers to social issues and political/individual (not economic) freedoms, so they'd be lower left, not upper left, and CDP would be upper right, not lower right. :P —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 03:16, June 1, 2013 (UTC)
 * Actually, this is a little hard to decide. Reboot supports government interference in terms of the country's land, but I'm not sure if that's more economic or social. Maybe we should stop focusing on graphing this stuff. :P —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 03:18, June 1, 2013 (UTC)
 * But CDP is much more libertarian than authoritarian. CDP supports small government (minimal government programs, little economic control, minimal censoring [with exception to pornography], etc.) --Quarantine Zone (talk) 21:01, June 5, 2013 (UTC)
 * That's the left-right part of the graph. :P —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 21:49, June 5, 2013 (UTC)

Newhaven Tribune Political Polling 1-2 June 2013
I decided to try merging all of the polls into just "what's your favorite party?" basically. I'll see what happens. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 03:35, June 1, 2013 (UTC) Poll - 1-2 June 2013 - If a Federal Election happened tomorrow who would you vote for?
 * Conservative Christian Party of Lovia - 8 - 30%
 * Social Christian Party - 2 - 8%
 * Social Liberal Party - 3 - 11%
 * Green Party - 3 - 13%
 * Conservative Nationalist Party - 5 - 19%
 * Positive Lovia - 0 - 1%
 * Labour Party 3 - 12%
 * Christian Democratic Party 1 - 5%
 * Other - 0 - 1%

Please vote, there are still only seven now that ten hours have elapsed since the most recent voter voted. :o —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 23:28, June 1, 2013 (UTC)

Hmm, GP needs more votes. Come on people! Vote Green! Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 05:37, June 2, 2013 (UTC)

No, don't vote Green, vote SCP! 4kant,6FRÅGOR??? 07:11, June 2, 2013 (UTC)


 * You should switch back to CNP, 4kant. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 11:57, June 2, 2013 (UTC)

Also -- what happened to all the CCPL voters? :O —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 11:58, June 2, 2013 (UTC)

I know for a fact no way should we  be in second with three votes :P Marcus/Michael Villanova 12:07, June 2, 2013 (UTC)

Why are there so many different polls all asking similar questions? Frijoles333 / Marcel Cebara (talk) 19:37, June 2, 2013 (UTC)

IDK no offence to Time, I like his papers and political input, but I think Kun's model for polling is the best. I wouldn't mind him doing the same but I think it'd get a bit repetitive. Marcus/Michael Villanova 19:41, June 2, 2013 (UTC)

Lol, CCPL just went from 2 to 8 in six hours. Anyway, I like my model for polling because it's more like other countries' polling, it doesn't allow you to vote for the same party in multiple polls, and in Kunarian's model, major, minor, and supports in the poll appear to be equal in value once compiled. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 21:54, June 2, 2013 (UTC)

Why does labour have 12% yet GP with 13%? And SLP with 11? Marcus/Michael Villanova 21:12, June 5, 2013 (UTC)

So that they wouldn't all have the same percentage on a graph. GP also should have had four votes due to Donia. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 21:49, June 5, 2013 (UTC)

LT polling
REMEMBER TO READ CAREFULLY, CLICK AGREE TO SUPPORT THE IMPLEMENTATION OF THE RULE IN LOCAL ELECTIONS, CLICK DISAGREE TO OPPOSE THE IMPLEMENTATION OF THE RULE IN LOCAL ELECTIONS:


 * Voters in the Local Elections in Sylvania are limited to vote for any party only once in the same way that they may vote for any candidate only once, this rule was installed to stop parties voting only within their parties, critics from the labour party say that this is an affront to democracy, do you agree that this rule is good for democracy?
 * 13 - Agree
 * 2 - In the middle
 * 5 - Disagree
 * 0 - Don't know

I like it better, it sets the scene of why this poll is held. Hoffmann Kunarian TALK 19:28, June 2, 2013 (UTC)

Remember that this rule has also been put in place to ensure that votes for individuals who are supported by multiple people on matter of conviction do not have their vote share eroded deliberately by votes that are made only within party groups. Also it stops the tradition of people fielding a load of candidates just to spread their votes amongst their party, most of whom normally end up inactive like in this congress. I hope you vote to Agree. Hoffmann Kunarian TALK 19:36, June 2, 2013 (UTC)

(my summed up argument as well) Remember that this rule, while in good spirit, takes away an individual's right for first choice if that other candidate is of the same political party. While I don't like how are current system does have inactivity, I don't believe that this rule actually would change this, rather force you to vote for someone who is ideologically near you (as anyone would do) but inactive or not as active. Maybe you do have inactive people in your party, but I hope you take it among yourselfs to weed it out and put country first, I hope you trust in the other people running for office behind that. I hope you vote no. Marcus/Michael Villanova 19:39, June 2, 2013 (UTC)

Can we agree to leave the "arguments" at this :P Marcus/Michael Villanova 19:51, June 2, 2013 (UTC)

Agreed with one addition, seeming as you're hoping I'd like to hope too. Hoffmann Kunarian TALK 19:56, June 2, 2013 (UTC)

Actually did make me laugh if you can believe that xD I hope you hope that you'll hope some more that I agree to that. Marcus/Michael Villanova 20:07, June 2, 2013 (UTC)

OWTB's view
In my opinion, we hardly have a choice, as there are less votes to be brought out and less votable options. But then again, it is perfectly well allowed to just stand as an independent during the local elections, easily circumventing this. So, in short: in theory a nice solution, in reality it is useless :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 03:15, June 3, 2013 (UTC)
 * True, Time pointed this out and so has Marcus but I think that this is a good starting place and a good simple rule to build upon. Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 10:06, June 3, 2013 (UTC)
 * No, to me it looks like redundancy. Pretty sure it ain't gonna have any effects :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 12:53, June 3, 2013 (UTC)
 * We have to start experimenting somewhere, and it's especially good in situations like these where we can just experiment rather than just hypothesise. Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 17:48, June 3, 2013 (UTC)
 * Maybe it can be boiled down to this, and I don't want to misquote you. But your solution would be through the changing the voting aspects and to that you think there is a strong "Party alligence" and that in turn it will solve it. I take the path of not changing the voting, yet not allowing those who are inactive to run and if they do run, by the mid-way point if they aren't active we hold mid-terms for there seats? Yes/no? Marcus/Michael Villanova 20:28, June 3, 2013 (UTC)

Conclusion
Clearly a majority (65%) think it's a good rule and good for democracy, a minority (25%) think it's bad for democracy and a few (10%) think something inbetween. Hoffmann Kunarian TALK 10:06, June 3, 2013 (UTC)

Blackburn U
Sorry to ask what is probably a silly question, but I was thinking of making some contributions to Blackburn University, including adding some new buildings in Transcity and adding more detail to the parts about campuses and courses. I know it's silly for me to ask, but thought I should as its not one of my projects Frijoles333 / Marcel Cebara (talk) 19:16, June 3, 2013 (UTC)
 * Add detail to courses would be something I think most people would be fine with (with a little overseering to make sure things are done properly), however it doesn't need any new buildings. Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 19:20, June 3, 2013 (UTC)

Ok I'll do that Frijoles333 / Marcel Cebara (talk) 19:22, June 3, 2013 (UTC)

The unconquerable soul of Donia
I stand here before you, a man at the height of his abilities. A man strong, a man experienced. Unbowed, unbroken, an unconquerable soul in a durable body. Lovia has endured long too, much longer then I have lived. Lovia may not be an old nation compared to some others, but it’s history is rich and it’s culture all the richer. There is no man alive on this planet, on the face of this earth, who appreciates this fact more than I do. Our history may not be long, but we packed a million years in just one hundred and fifty years of existence. Nothing, nobody, can ever take that away from us.

But as I stand before you, my family Lovians, I see a nation broken, a nation divided. A nation still recovering from the horrors of the Civil War. A war that was no one’s fault, but a fault of us all and a burden for us all to carry. You do not have to carry it alone, you do not have to suffer in silence. Step out of the shades of your mundane existence, come together and join hands. Papa Donia is here, your lord and saviour. Let us come together and be as one. Let us walk together in the right direction, the only direction: forward. Forward towards a brighter and better future. For Lovia, the Lovian people, and for humanity itself. Walk with me in fields of blue, red and yellow, lay with my in green pastures and walk with me in a golden sunlit beach. History is not written in the stars, it’s written by you! By me, by my infant son, by my baby niece. By the man in the street, his wife, his lover. By the old lady at the bookstore who is secretly a salsa dancer and battles crime in her free time. By the mentally handicapped man on the Hurbanovan farm who was falsely accused of kidnapping the guinea pig he was actually attempting to save. We are all writing the history of Lovia, together. Come with me, and write! Write, by living! Live, by writing.

 Make me your King and you will have a dreamer, with no political power whatsoever. A dreamer who will take your hand and guide you along in his dreams, take you with him on many a adventure. For I am the captain of my fate, and the master of my soul. Let us master our fates and captain our souls together. Under Ygo the First, there will be a kingdom that reigns a thousand years. Or, just a month, if you will have it so. It is your call, your decision. You, the people of Lovia!

 <p class="MsoNoSpacing">I cannot promise heaps of gold, nor can I promise there will be no controversies. I cannot promise there will be no wild sex parties in the palace garden and pool, and that there will be no illegal goat races in the streets of Oceana. There may be a fight or two, some drunken brawls and a politically motivated assassination attempt on the mascot of a sports team I hate. A feminist or two, or three, or five, might find themselves locked up in my dungeons, and I cannot promise there will be no drunken rants every once in a while. But I can promise you this: there will be gold, and there will be adventure, and there will be laughter.

<p class="MsoNoSpacing">We will be merry and we will be happy, Lovians! Naranja! May the Gods and Science and all that is good and holy and unholy and immoral and sexy and hilarious be with you! Let us move on to a new Lovia. Bless Lovia, bless the Lovian people, and bless the healing power of milk, alcoholic beverages, intellectual debate and horseback riding!

<p class="MsoNoSpacing">Kind regards,

<p class="MsoNoSpacing">Your king, The glorious First Consul of Rome (talk) 21:57, June 3, 2013 (UTC)

So, Donia's Lovia is going to be tolerant and groovy. I like it. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 02:15, June 5, 2013 (UTC)


 * That sums it up pretty well, TM. The general idea was a tolerant and groovy Lovia. Some crazy shit will still happen every now and then, there may be some controversy and I won't be able to always give everyone exactly what they desire. But neither was Dimitri, back when he still bothered to visit the site every so often: he was blantantly anti-religious, militantly atheist, obsessed with the USA and formed his own leftist cliques that dealt with opposing views in ways that were not always as democratic as they could have and should have been. I will not make such mistakes, as unlike him I am capable of not politicalizing the position of King (politics never interested me that much, honestly), nor am I such an idealist. I'm more laidback, not a sucker for the rules, instead of Dimitri who I suspect hugged the Constitution late at night, and who may or may not have danced around his room with it wearing a wedding dress. In any case, all joking aside, they were good days. I found the presence of a king rather enjoyable, as it was an important part of Lovian society. When we lost this part, with our King's departure, I think we lost a little piece of the old Lovia, the Lovia that we had, and that I loved. So at the fear of sounding too nostalgic, I would like to revive those days, if only just a bit. Now don't get me wrong, I am no Dimitri I, nor an Arthur I, II & III nor a Lucy or a Lucas. I would be a different type of King. But it's a position I would gladly take and furfill to the best of my abilities. It would be new and interesting, yes, but also not that new, as we had a King before. At present, however, we do not. And I find that a bloody shame. So as a king, I'd get involved with debates, play an advisory role perhaps, give regular speeches in the Speaker's Corner on cultural phenomenon and the like, and give interviews for the country's major news stations and papers. I'd write a book or two, or three. And furthmore, retreat from all political positions I may or may not hold, and fully focus on the Lovian Throne. The glorious First Consul of Rome (talk) 07:47, June 5, 2013 (UTC)

Lovian Times Polling 7-8 June
Elections
 * 7-8 June 2013 - If a Federal Election happened tomorrow who would you give a major vote to?
 * 3 - Conservative Christian Party of Lovia
 * 1 - Social Christian Party
 * 1 - Social Liberal Party
 * 2 - Green Party
 * 2 - Conservative Nationalist Party
 * 3 - Labour Party
 * 1 - Other


 * 7-8 June 2013 - If a Federal Election happened tomorrow who would you give a minor vote to?
 * 1 - Conservative Christian Party of Lovia
 * 0 - Social Christian Party
 * 0 - Social Liberal Party
 * 4 - Green Party
 * 4 - Conservative Nationalist Party
 * 2 - Labour Party
 * 1 - Other


 * 7-8 June 2013 - If a Federal Election happened tomorrow who would you give a support vote to?
 * 0 - Conservative Christian Party of Lovia
 * 1 - Social Christian Party
 * 1 - Social Liberal Party
 * 1 - Green Party
 * 3 - Conservative Nationalist Party
 * 2 - Labour Party
 * 3 - Other

Approval
 * 7-8 June 2013 - Do you approve or disapprove of the Government's record to date?
 * 4 - Approve
 * 5 - Disapprove
 * 4 - Don't Know

Flavour Polling
 * 7-8 June 2013 - Do you support the CNP and Labour coalition in Train Village?
 * 7 - Yes
 * 4 - No
 * 2 - Don't Know

Comments
Comments open! Hoffmann Kunarian TALK 15:56, June 7, 2013 (UTC)

Glad to see the polls are becoming a regular thing :) Frijoles333 / Marcel Cebara (talk) 16:05, June 7, 2013 (UTC)

Yes, it's nice. I always vote the same though :P 4kant,6FRÅGOR??? 17:02, June 7, 2013 (UTC)
 * So do most people in real life when it comes to these things however it's the small things that make you want to move your support vote or maybe even completely change your major vote and those change the polls. Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 17:05, June 7, 2013 (UTC)

Could you please, please, please add my party to the polling next time, or split up "other" into the parties that category represents? Cadaro (talk) 22:51, June 7, 2013 (UTC)


 * Yeah maybe like "Other leftist" "Other Rightists"? Marcus/Michael Villanova 23:19, June 7, 2013 (UTC)

Announcement from Mäöres
We've just opened our election page. You can now run for elections if you are a Mäöreser citizen. If you are not yet a citizen, but you do want to vote, then you are advised to make 25 edits to your user page and wait four days. Then you will get your citizen form :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 10:08, June 8, 2013 (UTC)

Archive
Perhaps it's time to archive The Pub again :P 4kant,6FRÅGOR??? 14:50, June 9, 2013 (UTC)


 * Maybe yes but when? Is there a rule when user pages, forum pages or whatever pages needs to be archived? I ask this because I have on my user talk page around 45 messages and I want to clean up this mess there. Wabba The I (talk) 15:59, June 9, 2013 (UTC)
 * As far as I know, there is absolutely no rule at all for that. It's done when someone decides to do it, which can be when there are 40 or 400 sections. Just before the last time The Pub was archived I pointed out that there almost was enough stuff to archive it twice :P 4kant,6FRÅGOR??? 16:07, June 9, 2013 (UTC)

Clymene Kickstart
Ok everybody, after looking through the various coments and complaints, I think it's time to finally do something more for Clymene. As there is so much I would like to do (and much more I've probably overlooked), I'd like to get everyone interested in helping the state involved in this. On the agenda would be a variety of items/issues.


 * 1) Marcus has repeatedly criticized me for not implementing a state council and it's time to fix that. As full on elections may not be viable, I would like to get everyone willing to participate in state affairs to help form a state council. Prety much like a forum for discussing ideas and implementing plans.
 * 2) Other ideas I have are to work on the state plan ideas and to create a sort of network of localized community centers and libraries to encourage community projects and more interest in municial-level affairs.
 * 3) HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 16:12, June 10, 2013 (UTC)

For the state council, just make an RP one like is done in the other four states. No OOC elections needed. :P —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 18:17, June 10, 2013 (UTC)

State Reform
- Could you please vote "pro" on the newest proposal for devolution? :) --O u WTBsjrief-mich 13:57, June 10, 2013 (UTC)

Political Scale again


So here is a suggestion for a new scale. I put CDP in as an example. The Right and Left are referring to economic/fiscal, and the progressive and conservative are referring to social policies. --Quarantine Zone (talk) 19:32, June 10, 2013 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure about the colours. Red can now mean either very, very green or very much anti-green. Also, I consider yellow to be less green than green itself :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 08:02, June 11, 2013 (UTC)
 * I agree that the "double meaning" of red is problematic. :P 77topaz (talk) 08:10, June 11, 2013 (UTC)
 * So do I. And it doesn't exactly make sense that red can be greener than green anyway :P 4kant,6FRÅGOR??? 13:29, June 11, 2013 (UTC)
 * I don't get this at all. Just use a simple line from Left being extremely environmental, center being middle, right being none Marcus/Michael Villanova 14:24, June 11, 2013 (UTC)
 * That's not how it works. Although environmentalism and leftist theory usually go hand in hand (at least nowadays), it isn't actually related. It's a gross oversimplification to say: left = green. Another way of saying this is (and keep in mind, this is again a simplification): Left and right refers to economical matters, conservative and progressive to ethical/non-economical matters. As a matter of fact, progressive -not leftism- is usually closely tied to environmentalism, but still progressive =/= environmentalist per se. It is also worth knowing that these political diagrams are very widely criticized for being too simple to catch something complex like politics. It is kind of the same as the Kinsey scale and derived scales on sexuality: lots of criticism that they are too simple and twodimensional to capture something multidimensional like sexuality. This goes for politics and politcology too. Socialists, especially in the 19th and beginning of the 20th century didn't care for the environment much, and they adopted an anti-industrial attitude due to machines replacing and destroying labor, not because they gave a fuck about, say, pollution. Nowadays, it is common practice to adopt an environmentalist image and worldview as a left(-leaning) politician, because the two concepts fit each other perfectly. This sort of led to the situation where progressives and environmentalists became mutually interchangeable. In Europe, where liberal usually refers to right-wing political parties and politicians, the liberals actually adopted an "economy first" attitude which led neo-liberalism and the neglect of environmental values. In the Netherlands, the labor party is now led by a former Green Peace activist, who almost became president, but even his dedication to the green cause moved to the background because the labor party (which is a social-democrat, so leftist party) has been focusing on health care issues a lot the last year or so. The green-pacifist-leftist-whatever party (GroenLinks, which is actually a bundle of several former small radical left-wing political parties like the Pacifist party and the like) has been the major force in green politics in Holland, but they seem to focus more on pacifist values -which they fucked up by supporting the Afghan war- and internal leadership problems -which caused a drop of like 70% in support for the party. The Socialist Party of the Netherlands hasn't even said like a single word about environmentalism in the media. They have some viewpoints on it, but they have a laborers first policy where everything < laborers rights. Moral of the story: left =/= environmentalism per se, but probably is. Sorry, I just wanted to write a little on politics, and teach you guys something in the process. /rant Cadaro (talk) 22:07, June 13, 2013 (UTC)
 * Thank you Cadaro... @Oos,excuse the color scale problems. I'm colorblind... We could do a black fading to white scale. --Quarantine Zone (talk) 01:32, June 14, 2013 (UTC)
 * Although I already knew that, Cadaro I alway enjoy a nice political insight. xD Although I still believe due to the nature of wanting a power government and seeking social change that leftism is more closely attributed to this. I do understand all the issues and aspects about this and sorry to hear your "socialist" party hasn't uttered a word. Understandably maybe, because of the conservative, eurosceptic wave still about. I mean look at the "labour" party of Britain. It too having a labor's first ideology but nothing else including centrist economic and just center-left social values. Again I understand the political science and everything it's just a normal generalization attributed to the situation and the issue. Marcus/Michael Villanova 02:10, June 14, 2013 (UTC)

Clymene Today Polling

 * Would you want congress to dissolve right now for new elections to be held?


 * Yes, and elections to take place in July so a new congress can be elected - 6


 * No, I like the current congress, it's active enough and represents me - 4


 * I don't know - 4

Its a sort of vague-ish question I just wanna know though. Please vote! Marcus/Michael Villanova 16:15, June 11, 2013 (UTC)

Yeah I think we need a new congress with less inactive congressmen Frijoles333 / Marcel Cebara (talk) 16:17, June 11, 2013 (UTC)

I still can't decide. On one side, I don't really want to go through elections right now, on the other side, I want SCP to weaken and a more active Congress so we can pass amendments more easily. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 16:40, June 11, 2013 (UTC)

I actually quite enjoy the election period Frijoles333 / Marcel Cebara (talk) 16:41, June 11, 2013 (UTC)

I agree with TM, also, having two nations with elections at the same time could be slightly stressing me :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 16:43, June 11, 2013 (UTC)

Well, I'll leaving the polling out for until today, and act on it. Marcus/Michael Villanova 18:04, June 12, 2013 (UTC)

Although the current congress has several inactive members, we have enough active ones as to not warrant new elections. HORTON11 : •  18:43, June 12, 2013 (UTC)

10,000th Edit Celebration
YES!!! ITS HAPPENING!!! IN JUST A FEW DAY(S) MY 10,000TH EDIT IS COMING. PLEASE HELP ME CELEBRATE IN A HUGE PARTAY AND ENDLESS AMOUNTS OF BOOZE AT THE Pink Flamingo Club !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! YEAH BABY! Marcus/Michael Villanova 16:19, June 11, 2013 (UTC)
 * Hahaha, you need the booze, cause when the moment's there it's gonna be disappointingly boring :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 16:40, June 11, 2013 (UTC)

Another Amendment
We need six more votes here. QZ? Bart? —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 16:44, June 11, 2013 (UTC)
 * I'll make a note on his talk. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 16:46, June 11, 2013 (UTC)

Look how popular we are!
Well not exactly...Using the monthly rankings by Wikia's WAM, I was able to see how popular/frequently used our wiki is. Well...It's okay i guess. It states that among wiki lifestyle wikis in english we rank 97th. Ehhh not too good. Conisdering at one point among all wikis (disregarding language or type) we were 517th, pretty high up, and now at 1436. Which is about a 900 place differental. Either way just some interesting states i wanted to point out :D Marcus/Michael Villanova 21:25, June 11, 2013 (UTC)
 * We rose to 1341 :P Anyway, I think that list is just bollocks. It uses very short time periods to calculate activity. If no one were to edit for, say, five days because of holidays or sumtin, we would drop out completely. Cadaro (talk) 22:35, June 12, 2013 (UTC)
 * And it doesn't include all wikis :( --O u WTBsjrief-mich 08:24, June 13, 2013 (UTC)

More Polling from Clymene Today
Hey everyone! I'm taking the great initiative from Mr. Hoffmann and holding my weekly polling which will be for statewide races. The two most important to me which is Clymene and Seven.

<Poll> If the Clymene state election was held today who would you vote for? J. Abrahams (SCP) M. Villanova (RLP) G. Underhill (GP) I Don't Know/Other

<Poll> If the Seven state election was held today who would you vote for? S. Breyev (Ind.) T. no Eisei (CDP) D. Leskromento (SCP) I Don't Know/Other

Please vote! Marcus/Michael Villanova 21:57, June 12, 2013 (UTC)

Hm, I'm not sure what the chances are that George will actually run this year; he seems almost completely devoted to Brunant at the moment. :P 77topaz (talk) 03:49, June 13, 2013 (UTC)

Well, if you could contact him to get him more active and ask him if he wants his old position. Marcus/Michael Villanova 21:30, June 13, 2013 (UTC)

Returning Member
Hi there, all. I used to participate here about two years back, but stopped because of school. I hope to rejoin the land of the living and participate heavily in Lovian politics for at least this summer, and hopefully for longer. Can anybody give me a short summary of what has been going on during my absence? I understand there have been multiple civil conflicts and a bit of a conservative revival, but beyond that I'm not really sure what has happened.

Many thanks,

Matt (talk) 22:13, June 12, 2013 (UTC)

Hey! welcome back, you left around when I came so I have no idea who you are, but I hope we can get acquainted quickly. So for an introduction I'm Lukas Hoffmann of the CNP, an economically liberal party that has a liberal social policy too, we favour civic nationalism and support for the cultures of Lovia from the government. I'm also Governor of Sylvania and have been initiating some radical steps to breathe new life into the State. I hope you can join us for a longer time now, introductions on my side are done. :) And again welcome back! Hoffmann Kunarian TALK 22:34, June 12, 2013 (UTC)

I've checked out your page and I like your policies. Very much so, in fact. I will be considering joining your party in the future. Many thanks for the introduction. Matt (talk) 22:59, June 12, 2013 (UTC)

Hi Matt, I'm Taiyō no Eisei, head of the Christian Democratic Party, Deputy Governor of Seven, and Minister of Health. I really haven't been on here too long, but for a brief recap, Dimi is inactive but still stops by from time to time. A civil war took place with an end result of the downfall of fascism in Lovia. The CPL.nm died out, so communism is almost gone as well (except for a small movement with one member called Reboot). Labour also shrank in size recently due to the new Social Christian Party. All in all, centrism grew a lot. CDP is the second most extreme active party, after Reboot. Many new bills have been passed since your inactivity. You can check those out, and Donia tried to steal the crown too. For a better recap of events from before the Civil War, I'd suggest talking to User:Semyon, User:TimeMaster, User:Ooswesthoesbes, or User:Crystalbeastdeck09. --Quarantine Zone (talk) 00:17, June 13, 2013 (UTC)

Nice to have a new user. :) —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 01:11, June 13, 2013 (UTC)

It's been a long time indeed, welcome back :) --O u WTBsjrief-mich 08:23, June 13, 2013 (UTC)

Lovian Times Polling 12-13 June
Elections
 * 12-13 June 2013 - If a Federal Election happened tomorrow who would you give a major vote to?
 * 1 - Conservative Christian Party of Lovia
 * 1 - Social Christian Party
 * 2 - Social Liberal Party
 * 2 - Green Party
 * 3 - Conservative Nationalist Party
 * 3 - Labour Party
 * 2 - Other


 * 12-13 June 2013 - If a Federal Election happened tomorrow who would you give a minor vote to?
 * 4 - Conservative Christian Party of Lovia
 * 0 - Social Christian Party
 * 0 - Social Liberal Party
 * 2 - Green Party
 * 3 - Conservative Nationalist Party
 * 3 - Labour Party
 * 1 - Other


 * 12-13 June 2013 - If a Federal Election happened tomorrow who would you give a support vote to?
 * 1 - Conservative Christian Party of Lovia
 * 0 - Social Christian Party
 * 0 - Social Liberal Party
 * 2 - Green Party
 * 3 - Conservative Nationalist Party
 * 3 - Labour Party
 * 4 - Other

Approval
 * 12-13 June 2013 - Do you approve or disapprove of the Government's record to date?
 * 8 - Approve
 * 5 - Disapprove
 * 1 - Don't Know

Flavour Polling
 * 12-13 June 2013 - (Regional) In Clymene who would you vote for if a general election was tomorrow?
 * 1 - I live in the Plains area, Reformist and Liberal Party
 * 2 - I live in the Sofasi area, Reformist and Liberal Party
 * 2 - I live in the Adoha area, Reformist and Liberal Party
 * 1 - I live in the Plains area, Social Christian Party
 * 0 - I live in the Sofasi area, Social Christian Party
 * 0 - I live in the Adoha area, Social Christian Party
 * 0 - I live in the Plains area, Green Party
 * 0 - I live in the Sofasi area, Green Party
 * 1 - I live in the Adoha area, Green Party
 * 0 - I live in the Plains area, Other
 * 2 - I live in the Sofasi area, Other
 * 1 - I live in the Adoha area, Other

Comments
Comments open up again. Go go go! Hoffmann Kunarian TALK 22:42, June 12, 2013 (UTC)

I have no houses in Clymene. I'd choose SCP or other if I did though. --Quarantine Zone (talk) 23:54, June 12, 2013 (UTC)

Polls closing in at 10 o clock GMT! Hoffmann Kunarian TALK 20:15, June 13, 2013 (UTC)

Just added my votes, polls still aren't working for me and I didn't have the opportunity to use a different computer. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 21:11, June 13, 2013 (UTC)