Talk:Foreign relations of Lovia

I think our Monarch should take a look into this Foreign Relations-thingy, its not really my cup of tea (politics). BastardRoyale 09:21, June 24, 2010 (UTC)
 * Our monarch will do that very soon :) 15:06, June 24, 2010 (UTC)
 * Perhaps we should add something about financial and/or material support we send to third world countries and conflict regions? 07:09, June 25, 2010 (UTC)
 * Not to conflict areas, 'cause then we're giving up our neutrality. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 14:12, June 25, 2010 (UTC)
 * Not if you send material support (like food) and doctors to help the local population. I never said anything about 'picking sides'... 06:35, June 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * That's dangerous and you'll certainly pick sides if you help someone and another not. It will be virtually impossible to help both sides then. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 07:13, June 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * If you only help citizens regardless of what side they're on it is possible. But I do get your point: it would piss of the organized military forces in a conflict between asymmetric powers. Nonetheless it remains the morally right choice. 10:24, June 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * If you don't help the oppressed, then you're helping the oppressor. Semyon Edikovich 20:25, June 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * Well, that is an extreme vision. I'm sure there are many gradations but sending humanitarian support isn't really picking sides. You could combine such support with the disapproval of the entire conflict (instead of condemning the actions of just one side). 07:49, June 27, 2010 (UTC)

Article
The article probably is pretty bad, but thats because I am not as familiar with Lovian culture as some of our 'veteran users' are. Perhaps one of you oldies could expand the article - there must be other countries besides the United States with whom Lovia has a relation (good or bad), no? BastardRoyale 18:13, June 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * Sure, especially Libertas, Adlibita and Mäöres. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 18:50, June 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * I want to write about humanitarian aid and I promise to keep out of the bigger conflict regions to be sure I don't hurt a general's feelings. Just some AIDS-campaigning, malaria-fighting and financial/material support for education in Middle Africa. Can you agree on that? 05:45, June 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * Also, let Lovia be against the occupation of Palestine and Tibet and let them criticize North-Korea. BastardRoyale 12:33, July 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * And against the war in Afghanistan (as well as critical towards the bombings in the Yugoslavian Civil Wars, the Israeli-Lebanese conflict and the Gulf Wars). I think it is only fair to give both sides some credit.  16:22, July 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * Sounds fair. But what credit do you want to give to Israel and China? The USA sure has some good sides, but other certain countries are just... bad news. You need to be critical in order to change things, I guess. Maybe we could invite the Dalai Lama to hold a speech in Lovia? We have quite a few buddhists here. We might aswell just pick sides, on some issues. For example, you are a supporter of gay rights, which is cool, but what about the rights of native americans, the right to return for Palestinian refugees, the corruption of African governments, the Chinese one-child-policy, the death penalty. Those are all issues Lovia should be involved in. I got a whole washlist, also: human trafficking, slavery, child labour. BastardRoyale 16:42, July 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * You need to tackle the problems at their source: all big conflicts in today's world can be explained by its political-economic structure. These 'issues of the powerful' are then disguised by religion and ethnicity. No country is 'bad', it are people who are selfish that sicken the system. 16:46, July 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * True words. It is always the government that messes things up, or a few sicko's to spoil the entire world's perception of a country or religion. If it weren't for the likes of Osama, nobody would have a problem with muslims and if it weren't for acts like the Gaza war of '08\'09, I bet there would be less anti-semitism. Also, when I think of China, I think of chopsticks, kungfu and Jackie Chan first, not about the opressing of Tibet. Perhaps Lovia could boycott certain products to prove a point, or get around the table with other nations leaders (fictionally)? Think big, think global! BastardRoyale 16:51, July 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * All we need is an impeccable moral standard. It should be ethics guiding our foreign policy, not politics or economy. I'm against any kind of imposed boycot; the people are well capable of telling what is wrong as long as we provide objective information. If China is wrong, they know it; if the US is wrong, they should know it too. 16:55, July 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * I doubt all people are so smart. People are like sheep: easy to influence and even to brainwash. That is how for example the gun lobby and other lobbies in the US have more or less brainwashed people. A day after a school shooting, a pro gun rally is held. Coincidence? I doubt it. If you tell someone ever from the day they are born that something is wright or wrong, some country is wright or wrong or some religion or ethnic group, they will believe it, because it is all they hear and they don't know any better. Education is the keyword. BastardRoyale 16:59, July 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * I couldn't agree more; this is why an embargo is bad, but media attention for a citizen-initiative based boycot in combination with objective information is good. It's all about educating the public (and I don't mean sending them to labor camps). 17:02, July 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * Right on target. Just give them the plain facts, and let them decide for themselves what to do with it. Do not try to mindfuck people into believing everything you say is always right: they should think about everything, question everything, those are the best citizens you can wish for. Only smart people ask questions, the dumb just don't care. BastardRoyale 17:07, July 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * Or the misled (I prefer that over dumb or evil) believe they already have the answer or they pose the wrong questions. I don't say a government (or anyone) shouldn't put forth any values, but the values they do put forth must be acceptable to reason and reflect the true nature of our case. 17:12, July 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * The government can have certain campaigns meant for educational purposes. There have to be platforms such as newspapers (which, lately, have gone unactive) and television programmes in which politicians give their opinion about both foreign and local occurences. And wouldn't it be nice if Lovia gets "involved" more in the real world (like the writings of the communist website, or fundings when a major disaster strikes some poor nation)? BastardRoyale 17:18, July 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * I'll talk to two of my friends in the television world, Jon and Harold. Maybe they can give me a weekly show where I discuss some actual matters with another important figure (foreign or Lovian) and answer the viewers their questions. 17:24, July 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * Sounds good to me. And could you write some more sections on Lovia's relationship with various other nations (not knowing our history as well as you do, I must admit I find it rather difficult and I fear I'll make mistakes). BastardRoyale 17:27, July 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * You're doing pretty good this far. Just keep writing and I'll read/correct things in the morning; I'm going offline now. 17:28, July 27, 2010 (UTC)

Pimping the article
I'm pimping the article with links, images, etc. I'll also add a bit about earlier conflicts. A little note on the boycott of North Korean products: as far as I know North Korea exports only weaponry and propaganda. 08:03, July 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * Sounds good to me! And we don't need no weaponry.BastardRoyale 08:27, July 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm balancing it a bit since the historical references lack structure: anti-colonialism can be tied to the US-inheritance (just like isolationism) but this rises questions on the US policy itself etc. 08:41, July 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * Great. At the section "South-Afrika", give credit to the ANC? Why give credit to the guys who sing "kill the boer", they are no better then the AWB. BastardRoyale 09:08, July 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * And does Cuba really have such great human right standards? BastardRoyale 09:11, July 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * I said 'some Lovians' give credit to the ANC. Be fair, I know there is an extremist current present but they were the thriving force behind the fall of the Apartheid. They fought for it long before the west cared; receiving their only support from commies. The ANC might have troubles with corruption and poverty but those problems are created by exploitation by the west and an ethic of greed, not by governmental policy. About Cuba: free health care with higher standard than the US, free education with a standard equal to the US, people get trials before they are put in jail (ever heard of Guantanamo Bay? It's not Cuban!). Cuba has trade deals with Oxfam, so yes the standards are fairly good. Better than Russia I'd say and we trade with them don't we? 09:20, July 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * You convinced me! :-) BastardRoyale 09:40, July 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * Well, it is not official policy but it is notably not official policy ;-) 10:04, July 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * What exactly do you mean by 'side current'? Semyon E. Breyev 10:46, July 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * Well, next to the official policy you have a minority of people who feel very strongly about the subject. Take the US for example: officially we have a very strong relationship but there is a notable minority of people who are critical of or even hostile towards the US. The policy isn't dictated by the side currents but they do define the climate in which the relationship develops. 11:22, July 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * What does "side current" mean? Marcus Villanova[[Image:Flag of Lovia Small.png|border|20px]]
 * Try reading the section above? Semyon E. Breyev 19:57, July 28, 2010 (UTC)

Helping?
Do you want help, I could do smaller countries or stuff like Canada, Mexico, China, Japan? So need help? Marcus Villanova 19:53, July 28, 2010 (UTC)