Forum:Second Chamber

__NEWSECTIONLINK__ In Lovia, Congress is the national legislative body and the most powerful branch of government. The Second Chamber is one of the two chambers of Congress, located in the Capitol in Downtown Noble City, in which the Members of the Congress vote bills that originated in the First Chamber. Paradoxically, Lovia does not have a bicameral parliament: there is only one group of MOTCs that both debates and votes the proposals. For the current composition of Congress, see 2011 Provisional Congress.

Whereas all national citizens may propose bills in the First Chamber, only Members of the Congress may vote them in the Second Chamber. Article 6 of the Constitution states that "all Members of the Congress are expected to vote on the motion in the Second Chamber". They have three legal voting options: "pro (in favor of the motion), contra (in opposition to the motion) and abstention (the wish not to vote)." Further more, they "have two weeks’ time to cast their vote in the Second Chamber. Voting may be closed earlier if the required majority is reached. The proposer may also choose to lengthen the voting period."

A normal majority ("fifty percent of the valid votes") is required to pass a motion amending the Federal Law. To vote on Constitutional amendments, a special majority ("more than two thirds of the valid votes") is required to pass a amendment. The special majority requirement was lowered from three quarters to two thirds in the 2010 State Reform (Sixth Amendment). All proposals approved by Congress, by the required majority and in due time, must be implemented by the government of Lovia.

001. Government
This is the government proposal, known as the Ilava I Government, that will rule for the duration of the 2012 First Congress, unless a dissolution is passed. The proposal includes the Speaker of the Congress and each ministerial position.


 * Prime Minister: Oos Wes Ilava - CCPL
 * Minister of Defence: Lukas Hoffmann - CNP
 * Minister of Foreign Affairs: Semyon Breyev - ind.
 * Minister of Finance: Percival E. Galahad - LAP
 * Minister of Justice: Bill An - PL
 * Minister of Health: James Torres - LDP
 * Minister of Education: Matthew McComb - PL
 * Minister of Culture: Oos Wes Ilava - CCPL
 * Minister of Labour: Pierlot McCrooke - CPL.nm
 * Minister of Commerce: Christopher Costello - PL
 * Minister of Agriculture: Jhon Lewis - Labour
 * Minister of Energy and Resources: Ben Opať - MCP
 * Minister of Environment: Ygo August Donia - CCPL
 * Minister of Transportation: Justin Abrahams - Labour
 * Minister of Tourism and Sport: Marcus Villanova - Labour
 * Speaker of the Congress: William Krosby - LDP

Pro

 * 11 Votes —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 23:48, February 2, 2012 (UTC)
 * 14 votes Marcus/Michael Villanova 23:53, February 2, 2012 (UTC)
 * 8 Votes Kunarian 00:09, February 3, 2012 (UTC)
 * 17 votes. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 09:08, February 3, 2012 (UTC)
 * 3 votes Pierlot McCrooke 11:07, February 3, 2012 (UTC)
 * 11 Votes HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 12:39, February 3, 2012 (UTC)
 * 5 votes — Christopher Costello (Pikapi • Chat  • What's up ) 15:30, February 3, 2012 (UTC)
 * 5 votes Wabba The I 16:30, February 3, 2012 (UTC)
 * 5 votes --Semyon 16:40, February 3, 2012 (UTC)

Contra

 * 1 vote (Ron Nash) I opppose a governemnt with conservatives Pierlot McCrooke 11:07, February 3, 2012 (UTC)
 * 1 vote Joshua Katz, 16:41, February 3, 2012 (UTC)

Abstention


✅ By a 79% majority! —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 21:09, February 3, 2012 (UTC)

Comments
What I learned today: Me + Oos + krosby + Kurnian = half of congress Marcus/Michael Villanova 10:55, February 3, 2012 (UTC)
 * Gotta take advantage of that è :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 11:25, February 3, 2012 (UTC)

I know right :D By the way why is education now education and science again? all of the departments use science to try and improve their ministries. Kunarian 14:30, February 3, 2012 (UTC)
 * It will support science in the genericity (in het algemeen in dutch) Pierlot McCrooke 14:35, February 3, 2012 (UTC)
 * I understand but it would be easier just to call it the minitry of education. Kunarian 14:57, February 3, 2012 (UTC)
 * Doesn't matter. In Lovia we can use an abbreviation like "MES" (ministry /of/ education /and/ science). Anyway, we need to have a place for science in a ministery and in the Netherlands it's very common to group it with education. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 16:28, February 3, 2012 (UTC)

@Marcus: Could be useful, except your political views are all totally different. :P --Semyon 16:42, February 3, 2012 (UTC)

Pikapi changed it back, because he thought you can't change active proposals. That is true, but in this case you can, because name has little meaning. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 21:10, February 3, 2012 (UTC)

Well the point i was making was a good and bad one. A good one beacuse we invest our power in the more advanced and experienced users, who are also more active. Thorugh the two elections i've seen the Younger at the time inactive users only have maybe 7 seats but now have let's say 9 or 10, Movin' on Up!!! Bad cuse we might also invest too much power in too little users. Marcus/Michael Villanova 22:01, February 3, 2012 (UTC)

002. Educational Reform Act (Part I)
The 2012 Educational Reform Act - (Part I)

An act requiring the education of Lovia to be reformed and for the Standard Knowledge Assessment to be implemented as the official state-sponsored and subsidized test.
 * The theories of creationism and evolution will only be taught with permission from the parent/legal guardian.
 * The SKA may not include any topics about evolution or creationism.
 * If a school's average grades are below 80 (C-F), the school must offer tutoring every morning and afternoon, unless excused by a reasonable reason from a parent/legal guardian.
 * Students may choose to be absent for religious holidays, including Passover, Easter, Chinese/Lunar New Year, Christmas, Kwanzaa, Hanukkah, etc. They will not be marked absent. Any missing schoolwork will not be required to be turned in, or the due date will be delayed.

Pro

 * - 3 votes - -- Bill An 05:21, February 5, 2012 (UTC)
 * - For our children's right to propaganda would be great too! Lee Feng 05:21, February 5, 2012 (UTC)

Contra

 * 8 Votes - please fix the thing, write it more as a law and make things less vague then propose it to the second chamber again. Kunarian 10:26, February 5, 2012 (UTC)
 * (4 votes). This law is against reasonable principles. The part about the telling of thew theories is possibly illegal. Children should be not withheld information due to their parents Pierlot McCrooke 11:26, February 5, 2012 (UTC)
 * 14 votes - It's just random school related laws, like why? Marcus/Michael Villanova 12:52, February 5, 2012 (UTC)

Abstention

 * 17 votes --O u WTBsjrief-mich 09:02, February 5, 2012 (UTC) still too vague: is this just a standardized test or really an entire school program?
 * 4 votes --Wabba The I 11:05, February 5, 2012 (UTC)
 * 11 votes —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 13:23, February 5, 2012 (UTC) not fleshed out enough. edit: Pierlot's point is very good.
 * I oppose the teaching of creationism, 'religious holidays' must be better defined, the SKA testing looks inhumane, and I have no idea what it actually is. --Semyon 14:49, February 11, 2012 (UTC)

Comment
Another, more amusing, flaw just occurred to me. When I was young and less responsible than I am now, I would quite happily have claimed to be a member of every religion on the planet to get days off school. And I'm pretty sure that any student with real dedication could find a religious holiday for every day of the year. :D --Semyon 19:16, February 11, 2012 (UTC)

006. Settlment Act Addition
The addition is as followed (also note: this is how is was done when the smart expereniced users were in charge so yeah it's actually for the better of Lovia)


 * The current existing Cities are:
 * Newhaven and Noble City
 * The current existing Towns are:
 * Sofasi and Hurbanova
 * The current existing Neighborhoods are:
 * Artista, Bayside, Citizen Corner, Downtown, Industrial Park, King's Gardens, Little Europe, Little Frisco, Long Road, Mandarin Village, New Town, Old Harbor, The Mall, Trading Quarter, Transcity, Abby Springs, Malipa, Newhaven (neighborhood), Old Port, Pines, Canterbury, Drake Town, Hightech Valley, Hurket-on-Kings, Millstreet, Newport, Nicholasville, Orange Gardens, Muza
 * The current existing Hamlets are:
 * Beaverwick, Clave Rock, East Hills, Plains
 * The current existing Villages are:
 * Adoha, Charleston, Kinley, Portland, Train Village, Novosevensk.

Pro

 * – 14 votes Marcus/Michael Villanova 14:41, February 11, 2012 (UTC)
 * Weak – 6 votes. --Semyon 14:45, February 11, 2012 (UTC)
 * – 8 Votes - Kunarian 15:35, February 11, 2012 (UTC)
 * – 17 votes. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 15:43, February 11, 2012 (UTC)
 * (4 votes) to approving Sjorkskingma's version. -- 16:14, February 11, 2012 (UTC)

Abstention

 * 11 votes - not as an addition to the settlement act. Only a recognition of existing localities. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 15:57, February 11, 2012 (UTC)
 * 17 votes. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 17:06, February 11, 2012 (UTC) I fully agree with TM, we need a recognition of Plains, not an addition to the law.
 * (5 votes) If we want Plains to become official, we recognize it in the vote below. We don't need an unnecessary addition to the settlement act. — Christopher Costello (Pikapi • Chat  • What's up ) 17:32, February 11, 2012 (UTC)

Comment
Fine, would you two be open to making a National Congressperson Order but just for Cities and Hamlets and such? It would just keep things clarified, which is all I want. Marcus/Michael Villanova 17:23, February 11, 2012 (UTC)

007. Recognition of Plains
I find it ridiculous that we have something important that we all agree on, the recognition of Plains as a hamlet, but a really small point causes deadlock. (Deja vu anyone?) So, let's at least pass this, and argue over the rest later on:


 * Congress recognizes Plains as a hamlet located in the north of Asian Island

--Semyon 17:17, February 11, 2012 (UTC)

Pro

 * - 6 votes, --Semyon 17:17, February 11, 2012 (UTC)
 * - 5 votes, — Christopher Costello (Pikapi • Chat  • What's up ) 17:24, February 11, 2012 (UTC)
 * 17 votes --O u WTBsjrief-mich 17:39, February 11, 2012 (UTC)
 * 11 votes sounds good. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 18:10, February 11, 2012 (UTC)
 * 4 votes --Wabba The I 18:20, February 11, 2012 (UTC)

Abstention

 * (14 Votes) Read perivous vote comment above ^^^^ i think we can find a comprimise there. --Marcus/Michael Villanova 17:31, February 11, 2012 (UTC)
 * Perhaps, but I think it's unnecessary.
 * No just willy-nilly approving new settlements and not even putting it in a law book in unnecessary. a NSO i needed and will be approved. Marcus/Michael Villanova 18:13, February 11, 2012 (UTC)
 * If it's needed, then how come we've done fine without it before? We can just recognize the existing municipalities and localities, like before, periodically. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 18:15, February 11, 2012 (UTC)
 * IDk i find it quite uncivilized =P, idk why there should be oppiosition to this, it just helps people, at the most it dosen't do harm just good. Marcus/Michael Villanova 18:18, February 11, 2012 (UTC)
 * Probably because it's like the Congressional Journal, which in theory is helpful but turned out to be not that helpful. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 18:24, February 11, 2012 (UTC)
 * Marcus, why don't you at least vote pro for this, so we can make Plains official? Then we can consider your plan afterwards. :) --Semyon 19:07, February 11, 2012 (UTC)
 * I'm not saying no to this, Like first we adopt the outline and then fill it in with plains and other settlements. Marcus/Michael Villanova 19:32, February 11, 2012 (UTC)
 * There is no need for an outline (we have the settlement act and lists in several places, NO NEED), and what's wrong with first approving plains, and then adopting the outline? —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 19:34, February 11, 2012 (UTC)
 * Uhhh Wait so can we then approve the NSO after this? Marcus/Michael Villanova 19:38, February 11, 2012 (UTC)
 * Depends if it gets the required support. But possibly. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 19:44, February 11, 2012 (UTC)