Forum:The Pub

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nl:Forum:De kroegli:Forum:De Kaffeero:RoWikicity:Cafeneasv:Forum:Krogen Welcome to The Pub! This is the general meeting place in Lovia. Inhabitants can make public announcements, have a friendly chat with some copatriots, or discuss crucial issues in Lovian politics or business. Speeches can also be made at Speakers' Corner. All archives of The Pub can be found here.

Coalition for Clymene
In the past few days I've been speaking on a possible merger and political future for Labour and myself. Now after a short discussion, a new coalition has been made for Clymene. A short discussion was had with Mr.Szóhad and what was clear was that while sharing many ideological viewpoints, we shared a great conern for Clymene that no other politician can credibly say. Szóhad and I were in the Executive roles last time in 2011 and Clymene prospered and saw new reforms and innovation in Hightech Valley, Adoha and Downtown Sofasi that no one could imagine. Along with that we fought hard and long for devolution and for Plains to become a recognized settlement. But we spoke again and decided the greatness we accomplished couldn't be forgot, since now the current Executives are throwing this state's greatness away. It's not ideology that binds us in this new Coalition for Clymene but the concern and love for the State which can boast highest in green jobs and the best and most afforable healthcare in the nation. Things accomplished under my governorship with the help of Szóhad. I hope this fall you vote with your heart and mind and know that this coalition is the best possible thing to help Clymene. Thank you. Marcus/Michael Villanova 23:42, June 22, 2013 (UTC)

Well, I'm staying with Labour but your coalition definitely has my minor vote in Clymene :) Frijoles333 / Marcel Cebara (talk) 20:10, June 25, 2013 (UTC)

Just a heads up
Everyone. we're starting the selection for The Greatest Brunanter over in Brunant, and if anyone is interested we're now accepting nominations for Brunanters in 5 categories: Historical figures, Politicians, Sportspeople, Entertainers and Artists and humanists. HORTON11 : •  13:06, June 24, 2013 (UTC)

Map
So, I want to create a very detailed topographical map of Lovia, and I saw that others have already done some groundwork, such as Kunarians list of settlements, and Yuris old Kings maps. If you have any input, or things that should definitely be added to the map, I'd be glad to use that. Cadaro (www.tonefactory.lo) 13:29, June 24, 2013 (UTC)
 * Wait, there's a height map for Oshenna, let me search for it. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 13:31, June 24, 2013 (UTC)
 * Settlements - use of ground - height-rock formations - height-water. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 13:34, June 24, 2013 (UTC)
 * I have a topographical map of Sylvania, partly done with a few rivers on it, I'll work on it a bit, try to finish it up and give it to you. Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 13:42, June 24, 2013 (UTC)
 * Donia Castle, in the Emerald Highland, Sylvania. The glorious First Consul of Rome (talk) 14:33, June 24, 2013 (UTC)

So, here is a first concept of the outline (click on the image to get an idea of the details on the coastline). I am thinking of adding a few tiny islets and reefs here and there to flesh it out a bit. Is that okay? Cadaro (www.tonefactory.lo) 15:20, June 24, 2013 (UTC)
 * Please, no habitable island. Small rocks and wadplaten are okay. Reefs are ofcourse also good: Oceana Reef --O u WTBsjrief-mich 15:22, June 24, 2013 (UTC)
 * It looks good so far. I'll have that map for you soon. Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 15:25, June 24, 2013 (UTC)

Okay, I won't add any islands or rocks (I was thinking about really small ones, but okay). It is true, we don't wanna go against previous maps. Cadaro (www.tonefactory.lo) 15:47, June 24, 2013 (UTC) Here's the map. It's got most of the planned major rivers and the elevation is largely still in rough but it should help. Hoffmann Kunarian TALK 16:03, June 24, 2013 (UTC)
 * Ah yes, thank you very much. Appreciate it. Cadaro (www.tonefactory.lo) 16:13, June 24, 2013 (UTC)

Elevation map (first step-up to a geographical map)
Explanation (read carefully!):

So, this is the final product of a few hours hard labor in Adobe Illustrator: an elevation map of Lovia. I will use this map as base map for a geographical map that will include rivers, geographical regions, mountain peaks and possibly sea elevations. The map is created using a vector program, so I can freely delete, add, edit or move objects (that is, the shapes of which this map consists). So feel free to make suggestions for additions, edits and corrections. I tried to stay true to Lovian 'lore': I sought up every map available of Lovia and overlayed them over the coastline I showed you in a previous post. Then, I made them semi-transparent and traced/guessed the elevation isomeres using the maps and Lovian articles on things like the Emerald Mountains and the state articles on geography. This enabled me to fill in the blanks: Clymene has never been properly mapped, and some maps looked fancy, but didn't tell me a lot. I spiced up the Emerald mountains a bit (roughening the overall shape, adding a few small ranges in a close proximity to the original Heights core), because I felt that they looked a bit off compared to the rest of Lovia when I finished the map. I am particularly grateful to Kunarian for providing such a complete and detailed map, which allowed me to finish the rest of Peace Island without guessing a whole lot.

I took the maximum elevations -as indicated on the wiki for every island and state- in account when drawing the isomeres. So everything is (if I didn't make any mistakes) true to the wiki-lore. (For instance, at first I hadn't drawn any elevation isomeres on the Isles of London and Frisco, those two islets in the southwest corner, but when I looked them up, the actually had elevations exceeding 25 meters but not above 50 meters).

One important note: I inserted some extra elevation layers between each "known" layer. OWTBs map indicated 50, 100, 250 and 500 meters for example. I added 25 and 750 meters. The 25 meters allowed me to play a bit more with the low regions. Cadaro (www.tonefactory.lo) 20:35, June 24, 2013 (UTC)



This is amazing. And no problem about that map, what's the next step, I have more maps that I've started. Again, simply amazing. Hoffmann Kunarian TALK 21:37, June 24, 2013 (UTC)
 * Wow, it really looks great! Thanks! :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 22:26, June 24, 2013 (UTC)

I am currently working on adding the urban areas. I am aware that Kunarian and OWTB are developing a whole new range of new settlements for their respective states. I will do the same with Clymene. I don't know if Semyon is still active, but I suppose it wouldn't hurt if I added one or two settlements (that is, the really small places like OWTB and Kunarian are working on). I ask you guys to create a list of prospective settlements for Kings (and possibly Seven) and then I am all set. Cadaro (www.tonefactory.lo) 23:02, June 24, 2013 (UTC)

I would moderate the elevation in the northern half of the peaks in Kings to the lighter brown (or even shorter than that) and change the elevation of one of those islands in Seven to have an elevation higher in the middle. Otherwise looks very nice. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 00:33, June 25, 2013 (UTC)

I think we need to decide certain states like clymene together especially since many people would have vested interest there. :P Marcus/Michael Villanova 01:00, June 25, 2013 (UTC)

Nice map! :) 4kant,6FRÅGOR??? 06:48, June 25, 2013 (UTC)

Perhaps the elevation near Sofasi goes up too quickly. Considering Hightech Valley is north of downtown Sofasi, and the airport is there too (you'd need relatively flat grounds for those). --O u WTBsjrief-mich 08:47, June 25, 2013 (UTC)

I like it. :) With regards to the settlements in Seven - atm apart from Kinley and Novosevensk the only major settlements are Amish Kinley and Rybachye. On other islands there are only isolated farms, though if it would make the map nicer, I might make a couple of other larger ones. --Semyon 10:00, June 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * Yes please, that would definitely improve the map. You don't have to think of dozens of settlements (that wouldn't be realistic too) but two new ones would be cool. Cadaro (www.tonefactory.lo) 10:18, June 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * Alright, I'll add it to my to-do list. :) --Semyon 10:21, June 25, 2013 (UTC)

Also, regarding some suggestion about the elevation map, I can address some: I used the topographical map of Kings made by Regaliorum (Yuri), which clearly states that those northern areas have peaks above 500 meters. I will look into the Clymene issue and see if it is feasible to soften the elevation a bit in the south to accomodate the runway. I stayed true to Sevens topographical map, so I think it is Semyons business whether or not Seven looks good. Cadaro (www.tonefactory.lo) 10:25, June 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * Lovia - only country where height of the land is adjusted to suit building projects. --Semyon 10:45, June 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * Look up the Dutch province of Flevoland. You will be pleasantly surprised. Cadaro (www.tonefactory.lo) 11:27, June 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * Well, we've got the Netherlands - only country where existance of the land is adjusted to suit building projects :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 11:16, June 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * Coincidentally, I was just reading about Flevoland. Sounds like a rather weird place, tbh. --Semyon 11:28, June 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * It is,a ctually, nobody likes it. Not even the Flevolanders themselves :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 12:47, June 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * I'm aware, but the colors don't agree with the marked highest elevation. On that map, the colors are below 500m while the marked highest elevation in each of the locations is above. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 13:54, June 25, 2013 (UTC)

So, any suggestions for Kings settlements? Cadaro (www.tonefactory.lo) 11:55, June 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * I had a few ideas a while ago, I've made a map on top of your topographical map. Red dots are the minor settlements. Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 13:53, June 25, 2013 (UTC)




 * I kind of want a small settlement close to my Castle where more relatives and personnel of mine can live, Brigadiers can find lodging and perhaps a small motel and diner can be set up for tourists or mountaineers traveling through the area. Nothing too big or fancy, just a small adorable little village where no more then 150 people at most will be living. The glorious First Consul of Rome (talk) 13:00, June 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * See the Amish Kinley solution. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 13:12, June 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * That's a suitable solution. Would Amish Kingsley, and my own version of it in the Emeralds, be on the maps, too? I assume so. That officializes their existance. The glorious First Consul of Rome (talk) 13:16, June 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * Hahah :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 13:27, June 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * Preferably this settlement wouldn't be in Sylvania? all the population and settlements are figured and the non-metropolitan rural population lives around normally on sparse farmsteads. Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 13:41, June 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * I kind of insist they'd be near the Castle, which is located in the Emerald Highlands of Sylvania. To place it outside the state would be crazy and pointless. The glorious First Consul of Rome (talk) 14:25, June 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * Maybe I could offer you a place in Oceana, way up in the Emeralds? :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 14:27, June 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * As long as dat lew would be eskapat, I'd feel mighty safe in Oshenna! The glorious First Consul of Rome (talk) 14:30, June 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * Okay, just build a few illegal houses near the border and the Gonner will personally make sure they are safe against demolition :P As nobody knows of this, we won't include 'em on the maps. It's our secret :o --O u WTBsjrief-mich 14:32, June 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * It has to be on maps of course. I seek eternality, for my creations to exist in and outside of time itself. Think big, dare dream, dare reach for those stars my friend. I don't build stuff for it not to be admired. The glorious First Consul of Rome (talk) 14:36, June 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * :o Okay, you make sure it gets on maps. I ain't responsible if other people find out :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 14:42, June 25, 2013 (UTC)

Lovian Times Polling 25-26 June
Elections
 * 25-26 June 2013 - If a Federal Election happened tomorrow who would you give a major vote to?
 * 2 - Conservative Christian Party of Lovia
 * 1 - Social Christian Party
 * 2 - Social Liberal Party
 * 2 - Green Party
 * 3 - Conservative Nationalist Party
 * 2 - Labour Party
 * 2 - Other


 * 25-26 June 2013 - If a Federal Election happened tomorrow who would you give a minor vote to?
 * 3 - Conservative Christian Party of Lovia
 * 0 - Social Christian Party
 * 2 - Social Liberal Party
 * 1 - Green Party
 * 5 - Conservative Nationalist Party
 * 3 - Labour Party
 * 0 - Other


 * 25-26 June 2013 - If a Federal Election happened tomorrow who would you give a support vote to?
 * 3 - Conservative Christian Party of Lovia
 * 0 - Social Christian Party
 * 2 - Social Liberal Party
 * 1 - Green Party
 * 1 - Conservative Nationalist Party
 * 4 - Labour Party
 * 3 - Other

Approval
 * 25-26 June 2013 - Do you approve or disapprove of the Government's record to date?
 * 8 - Approve
 * 3 - Disapprove
 * 1 - Don't Know

Comments
Weekly tradition up and going. Hoffmann Kunarian TALK 07:09, June 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * Kunarian, I know your votes now :o --O u WTBsjrief-mich 08:48, June 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * I haven't voted! Oos can see into my mind! :O Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 09:53, June 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * :o Then there are actually other people voting for CNP too :o This is a strange world... :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 10:00, June 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * Verily. Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 10:19, June 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * Quite. Cadaro (www.tonefactory.lo) 10:26, June 25, 2013 (UTC)

Charles for Charleston


Charles Alexander Bennett is Charleston local leader, helping build the community and allowing massive growth come to the city. He fought for Lovia and defended his town durning the Civil War, he proudly aligns himself not with a party but as a independent and is fully dedicated to the people whom elect him. Bennett is a centrist, understanding view points from both sides. Help elect Bennett to continue Charlestons growth. -Sunkist- (talk) 12:02, June 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * Great message, build community and listen to all views. I think it's also good to have someone very dedicated to building a culture and idea around. For these reasons I completely throw my support behind your campaign good sir. Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 13:16, June 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * I second that. You have my fullest support, Mr. Bennett, my good humble hard-working Christian brother. May you live long and may Charleston prosper under your benevolent rule. The glorious First Consul of Rome (talk) 13:19, June 25, 2013 (UTC)

Settlements Map
And yet another map, indicating the settlements of Lovia. According to me and Kunarian (and by the looks of it OWTB, Semyon and Magnus) this is the direction we want to go with Lovia: more settlements. They don't all need a wikitable map, and I am in favor of updating the system of using wikitables as maps. The amount of settlements makes more sense, as Lovia has 200,000 inhabitants (comparable to Iceland).

I took all of your suggestions and own plans in account when creating these new settlements. For Oceana and Sylvania, I only added settlements that were listed in Kunarians and OWTBs settlement lists. I took great care to label them correctly. As OWTB has only given a rough indication of the location of the Oshenna settlements, I tried to fill in the blanks and place them in the correct position. In the case of Sylvania, I traced the location of the settlements using Kunarians maps.

The settlements of Seven and their respective locations were discussed with Semyon, and added according to his suggestions.

As I am affiliated with Clymene, I took the freedom to implement my own state plan there and add the settlements I am working on in my user space.

Because there is currently no one taking care of Kings in particular, I added settlements as well in Kings. I tried to do this with great care, and imposed a few rules on myself:
 * Settlement names in Kings are either based on Kings lore (founding father Johnson, the King, the prevalence of terns and gulls on the east coast, the Windthorn Shore and so on) or taken from the list of most common place names in the US on the English Wikipedia. This way, I remained neutral and didn't interfere with existing lore
 * The placement of settlements is (partly) based on the land use map of Yuri (look it up). He also stated that there were a few settlements between Portland and Newhaven. Cadaro (www.tonefactory.lo) 13:50, June 25, 2013 (UTC)

Anyway, here is the map:

I have no idea what to call the settlements, but add some to the river mouths that are visible in the northeast of Kings, east of Clymene, etc. and others where you feel is best to mirror the density of the settlements in Oceana and Sylvania. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 13:56, June 25, 2013 (UTC)

Oceana has one city and one hamlet, while Kings has one (large) city, one (large) town and one hamlet, so I think things even out. Also, Oceana has a lot more smaller rural hamlets. At least, that was my reasoning behind it. I didn't add more settlements, as Kings is currently without a user taking care of it. If you can come up with some names, however, I would gladly add them. Clymene has 3/4th of Oceanas inhabitants, and Adoha, Sofasi and Plains are quite large. My reasoning there is that Clymene is quite undeveloped. Cadaro (www.tonefactory.lo) 14:02, June 25, 2013 (UTC)

All of the settlements with no articles are hamlets, with less than 100 people, so they would not increase the population more than 20% if added to major settlements. They're already accounted for in censuses, anyway. Beaverwick is a village but its page is not yet updated. I guess not much I can do to make Clymene and Seven have more, but as Governor of Kings, I order you to add more settlements to Kings to mirror the density of Sylvania and Oceana. If it's any help, the river mouth a little above the center of the eastern coastline is a Muslim themed town. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 14:08, June 25, 2013 (UTC)

Kunarian made a map further up the page, you could use that while I think of some names. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 14:10, June 25, 2013 (UTC)

You should've consulted with me on the settlement names.numbers etc. as governor. I wouldn't want to have any more development outside of Adoha in Truth Island, as I would like to protect the forests and natural zones around. As for the rest we should try and align them along the major roads, as that is more plausible. Then again I also want to add a few more state roads. HORTON11 : •  14:12, June 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * As admirable as this is, settlements would have definitely formed, if just one or two more. What would you do? turf them up and force them off their land? Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 14:23, June 25, 2013 (UTC)

There's only one other settlement on Truth Island (Clinton) and it's where Highway 5 goes by between Sofasi and Adoha. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 14:14, June 25, 2013 (UTC)

Hwy 5 seems to end in Adoha, and I believe most of our development should be focused on Asian Island, as most people in Clymene live there. HORTON11 : •  14:17, June 25, 2013 (UTC)

Yes, and Clinton is between Adoha and Sofasi, where a bridge would be built due to the shorter distance over water. :P —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 14:21, June 25, 2013 (UTC)


 * I do insist, Donia Castle has to be included on the map. It's an important landmark, historically and perhaps the largest building of the nation when it comes to surface. The glorious First Consul of Rome (talk) 14:23, June 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * The Bridge already exists, but it's location isn't specified. But you're right, the highway map seems to confirm what you just said. But instead of an actual settlement on that spot, I would like to have a smallstop for travelers, with a small store for porivions, gas station and of couse a few houses. HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 14:24, June 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * Horton, I'd rather have people suggest new stuff instead of removing things. We have to even out things, y'know. Also, I have been involved in Clymene for quite some years now, as SKWikistad and Cadaro, so I feel I have at least a say in the matter. @Magnus: this map only shows settlements, no landmarks. Those will be added in a next map. Expect a large, pulsating dot with caps-locked "DONIA CASTLE" as a token of friendship, okay? Cadaro (www.tonefactory.lo) 14:31, June 25, 2013 (UTC)

Yeah, these settlements are all hamlets, so that is all it would be (plus a few farms). —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 14:30, June 25, 2013 (UTC)


 * I would have imagined some being slightly larger (Maybe not like Milerose or Plains, but definately like an unincorporated community as we have in Brunant. [[User:Horton11| HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 14:33, June 25, 2013 (UTC)

Settlements map suggestions
Okay everyone shut up now. :P Please write down what changes you want in one comment, and I will address them if reasonable. Try to include names of settlements and locations if possible, otherwise people will persist being unhappy about the whole thing. Cadaro (www.tonefactory.lo) 14:35, June 25, 2013 (UTC)


 * There will be a small settlement\village at the foot of Donia Castle, near the mountain it is located on. It will be named Magna Augusta, and will house members of the Donia Clan, employees, barracks and lodgings for the Brigadiers, and housing and some shops for tourists and mountaineers exploring local wildlife and mountains. I also plan for there to be a solar observation installation, and to have one of the castle's towers be used for the sake of birth watching and tracking local flora, fauna and wildlife, as I care deeply for the environment. There will not live more then 150 people in here at most and it will not be too large. Comparable to Amish Kingsley. The glorious First Consul of Rome (talk) 14:40, June 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * Boynitz should be in the green line between the two brown blocks in Oceana :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 14:46, June 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * This map looks nice too :) Just one little note: the name "Tern Beach" (assuming the last word is "beach") goes off the map :P 4kant,6FRÅGOR??? 14:58, June 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * That hamlet's located in Kings, btw :P 4kant,6FRÅGOR??? 15:00, June 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * All three suggestion granted. I am now waiting for the rest of the people who had complaints/additions before I render it again. If you now all could come up with names for settlements in Kings, that'd be great. Cadaro (www.tonefactory.lo) 15:01, June 25, 2013 (UTC)

If Donia has his Magna Augusta it will need to be on the Oceana side as all Sylvania is decided, I do not mind there being a very slight non-metropolitan conglomeration near the castle if it still needs be in Sylvania but nothing like a proper 100 around settlement like Coaltown and Severnybana. I also would like the adjustments from my Kunar is picky map, if you could please. And I second the increase of settlements in Kings to a reasonable density, also I'll start thinking of name ideas. Other than that nothing really, you've done a good job. Hoffmann Kunarian TALK 15:06, June 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * I have moved the three towns of your choice though. Take a close look. The Magna Augusta settlement is in Oceana. Cadaro (www.tonefactory.lo) 15:12, June 25, 2013 (UTC)

Add all hamlets that Kunarian had on his proposed Kings map, with the exception of one hamlet from the northern hills being moved to the river mouth off to the east. Names coming soon. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 15:10, June 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * Four dots already correspond the Kunarian map, I will add the remaining dots though. Cadaro (www.tonefactory.lo) 15:12, June 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * Kings suggestions: I'd go for the lazy option and add Cape Donald, Westmark and Hawke's Wood to the map within their respective districts. :P Kings is meant to have a reasonably high population of British descent so perhaps steal a few names such as Manchester or Sunderland? Other suggestion: Burke's Dam, Long Shot, Lost Cause, Beer, Stanley, Brunswick, Hewlett, Neale Downs. --Semyon 15:17, June 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * Beer? :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 15:19, June 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * Definitely not the least plausible one on that list. There's even a crater on Mars called Beer, apparently. :P --Semyon 15:21, June 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * :o I always knew there was something biblical about beer :o --O u WTBsjrief-mich 15:22, June 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure it's mentioned, actually, though wine is (as we've already discussed on the MIGFE page :P) --Semyon 15:28, June 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * Of course: Oceana wine :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 15:30, June 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * You're mistaken, my friend. They were talking about Chester Valley wine, the best in the world after the French. HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 15:43, June 25, 2013 (UTC)

For Clymene, only a few name changes would be necessary, as some are too similar to other places in Lovia. Other than that the position etc. is good. HORTON11 : •  15:43, June 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * Roosendorp to Rosendorp (would likely have become anglicized)
 * Newtown to Abington (Newtown is already used, too dull)
 * Glesga (great and unique)
 * Timber Harbor: perhaps we can give it a name in Bredish
 * Eastwood can stay the same or we can go with Rosswold, Rosewold, Rosswood
 * Aberdeen perhaps to Lisney

Kings Hamlet List (without Long Shot, Lost Cause, Beer, etc.) (if bad Dutch then correct please):
 * Windthorn Harbor --> Cape Donald
 * east northeast (20 degrees above due east maybe) of the northernmost peak, in that small bay-ish area: Windthorn
 * Milton, Fort Johnson, and Newcastle are good.
 * Tern Beach --> Estarois
 * King's Farms --> Koningdorp
 * Noble Farms --> Edeldorp
 * Centerville --> Centreville
 * Oostdorp east of Milton.
 * Bergdorf next to the northernmost peak.
 * Hewlett between the three hamlets in the west just south of Newhaven, in the middle of the triangle that they form.
 * Whatever the name of the Muslim hamlet was going to be, will be back with it later Thameen, north of Estarois and south of Windthorn.
 * You can come up with a few (not more than 4 or 5 probably) more but get German in the North, French in the East/Centre, Dutch in the Centre/Southeast, and American/British in the West please. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 16:52, June 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * Ow, you were a bit late with the suggestions. Is the newest version of the map okay with you? Cadaro (www.tonefactory.lo) 16:57, June 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * So just change it again? :P It's not okay, btw. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 17:04, June 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * Okay, um, I'll see what I can do. Your instructions are now a tad outdated, but I'd be glad to implement them: can you take a look at the map and give me another update on proposed changes? I will do the following already in the meantime: add Thameen, change Centerville to Centreville. Cadaro (www.tonefactory.lo) 17:30, June 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * Also, Koningdorp -> Koningsdorp sounds better, but sounds a bit bland and off to me. (We have had a queen since the 1890s, and only a few months ago we got another king in the Netherlands). Edeldorp doesn't sound like a proper Dutch name to me. In fact most of the X-dorp names sound a bit bland and weird to me. We don't usually have that many names like that in the Netherlands :P Centreville is okay, but mind you, I took Centerville from the list of most common US place names. It probably experienced anglicization. Hewlett reminds me of Hewlett-Packard and a quick google search tells me that it is not a very common English name. Imho Windthorn Harbor sounds really good (I could add Cape Donald next to it). Tern Beach -> Estarois? What is an Estarois? Cadaro (www.tonefactory.lo) 17:38, June 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * I got Estarois from french Est À Rois (East at Kings) and simplified it. Simple X-dorps, X-dorfs, X-villes, are fine imo, but I'll find something to replace Edeldorp. Koningsdorp is fine. Centreville was for French. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 20:20, June 25, 2013 (UTC)

Final version. (Or is it?)
Okay, so I granted all of your requests and implemented all suggested changes and additions (also TimeMasters last minute suggestions) I only ignored one change, namely the Noble Farms -> Edeldorp suggestion, as I felt "Edeldorp" sounds a bit weird. The rest of TimeMasters suggestions have been implemented. Cadaro (www.tonefactory.lo) 19:25, June 25, 2013 (UTC)


 * It looks great. It's not exactly how I envisaged it, but it's still really good. And if you have the chance, do you think you could help me out to make a similar map in Brunant? I did make a topographic map but not nearly a well-made or detailed. HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 19:37, June 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * Cadaro, my congratulations. I'll give you a 9.5/10 (it's Heighn o w, not Heighn a w) :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 19:39, June 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * @ TimeMaster: Tomorrow I am going jamming with my band and Thursday and Friday I am at friends in Leiden, so that's not going to work, but I will look into it in the not too distant future. "It's not exactly how I envisaged it" - care to explain? :P
 * @OWTB: oops, will fix that asap. Cadaro (www.tonefactory.lo) 19:41, June 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * I believe you misspelled "Horton": :P Beautiful map anyway :) 4kant,6FRÅGOR??? 19:45, June 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * I didn't expect to have so many settlements, but we can work with that. HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 19:48, June 25, 2013 (UTC)

Articles
It follows that we should write the articles on the hamlet we just decided on. I propose the following:
 * I think we should simplify the categories we use for settlements. I propose using "city" for the three largest settlements (Noble City, Hurbanova and Newhaven), using "town" or "village" for the rest of the traditional settlements (that is, all settlements that already exist, like Sofasi, Clave Rock, TV, Portland, East Hills and so on, with the exception of Amish Kinley), and using "hamlet" for all the new settlements + Amish Kinley.
 * We could do with a new and better infobox for settlements. I am working on that.

So here is the deal:
 * 1) Take a red link from the list below and create a new article
 * 2) Use this draft as an underground for your articles. Don't worry about the two non-existent templates. I will create them soon
 * 3) Change all placeholders ("X") to the proper names.
 * 4) Apart from Lovian English, add additional languages if necessary (Oshenna in Oceana, Bredish in Clymene, Russian in Novosevensk, and so on)
 * 5) Add a population figure, using your (reasonable) imagination and existing demographical figures.
 * 6) Try too flesh out the article a bit with original text: economy, location, notable things and so on.
 * 7) Add the category "hamlet" and "hamlet in [state]".
 * 8) Check if you didn't fuck up.
 * 9) (for governors) integrate the hamlets in your state articles and related articles.
 * 10) Substitute village for hamlet in the largest new settlements (>500 inhabitants).

Here is the list: Cadaro (www.tonefactory.lo) 19:58, June 25, 2013 (UTC)

Removed Noble Farms (unacceptable, not changing to Edeldorp is fine but please find a better name), got rid of Harbor from Windthorn (also please change) and changed village to hamlet. These would be hamlets, below 100 inhabitants. If they are above, then yes, they would be villages, but I believe most of them are hamlets. Also, do these really all need articles? :P —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 20:00, June 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * As I said, I didn't change Noble Farms to Edeldorp, that's the only change I didn't implement. Also, I think it would really make Lovia more interesting. I mean, we have articles on the most trivial things. Cadaro (www.tonefactory.lo) 20:04, June 25, 2013 (UTC)

Btw, what is wrong with Windthorn Harbor and Noble Farms? Does it sound weird in English? Cadaro (www.tonefactory.lo) 20:05, June 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * Noble Farms isn't too bad but it implies a couple of farms nearby each other which isn't really a settlement, so I'd prefer something else that can be decided later. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 20:08, June 25, 2013 (UTC)

Edit Conflicts!!! Previous - Okay. In addition to the above, move Windthorn to about due east of Bergdorf and a tad north, in the center of the coast of the bay, and remove Sunderland and Hawke's Wood (will become a natural area), and it should be good. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 20:08, June 25, 2013 (UTC)

@ Cadaro - Not at all. But Noble Farms sounds like a brand you'd find at a supermarket. Btw we could call these new places "unincorporated settlements", that is existing but not organized. HORTON11 : •  20:09, June 25, 2013 (UTC)

One more thing, move Thameen each north about how far Thameen is from Stanley right now and Estarois twice that distance. @Horton Yes, and I think hamlet would be better since I think we only have 1 or 2 left. :P Also, I liked the less wordy name for Windthorn since a hamlet wouldn't usually be a harbor. :P —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 20:10, June 25, 2013 (UTC)

Oh, and once Hawke's Wood has been removed, put Oostdorp where it was. And you know what, keep Sunderland on but put it next to the second northernmost peak, south of Bergdorf and would-be Edeldorp/Noble Farms. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 20:16, June 25, 2013 (UTC)

Please, no "unincorporated settlements". I never understood that American system... --O u WTBsjrief-mich 20:20, June 25, 2013 (UTC)

Found out that the Northern Basin is a protected area, so remove Cape Donald as a settlement and make sure to put Windthorn in the correct location. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 20:41, June 25, 2013 (UTC)

Lol, getting close now. :P Hawke's Wood and Sunderland are right next to other settlements, so please remove Hawke's Wood or move Oostdorp due east and a tad north to the coast and move Sunderland to nearby the second northernmost peak. Other than that, I think moving Estarois to touching the coast instead of a little bit inland would make it perfect. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 20:47, June 25, 2013 (UTC)

I;ve spent alot of time on Clymene I just wouldn't like my ideas to be ignored :/ I had some ideas for settlements on the Reform & Liberty Party page about various british and chinese settlements. Hopefully they are added :/ Marcus/Michael Villanova 20:51, June 25, 2013 (UTC)

Protected area =|= no human inhabitation. Compare Yellowstone NP. Also, I implemented your suggestions, but left Sunderland and Hawke's Wood, because otherwise we are back were we begun: less hamlets than Oceana (which has got less inhabitants). Consider them my additions. I will not remove Cape Donald, because most other states also have hamlets in protected areas, and that is perfectly possible. I changed Windthorn Harbor (Regaliorum originally created the name Windthorn) to Nordhorn, as you're right and 'tis a silly name (only references I can find on the internet are WoW and HP fanfics afaik). Nordhorn is a German city and I chose that name because it is in the immediate vicinity of Bergdorf. I changed the location of the hamlet as well, and moved Thameen and Estarois. I will leave Cape Donald, Sunderland and Hawke's Wood alone, as removing them will bring down the amount of hamlets too much. Remember that hamlets can also be situated in natural areas (Glesga, many Oceana and Sylvania hamlets). EDIT CONFLICT post scriptum: I will look into moving Sunderland and Hawke's Wood, but I suggest you take a look at Hurbanova and its many villages. According to me, the close proximity of those hamlets suggest a higher population density. Cadaro (www.tonefactory.lo) 20:53, June 25, 2013 (UTC)

Keeping them is fine, they're just too close to other settlements. Move Windthorn/Nordhorn and Estarois if you haven't, please. I'd move Sunderland to the second northernmost peak and Oostdorp due east to the coast. Otherwise it is fine. Anyway, I think most protected areas are intended to be wildlife preserves without human inhabitation, and as Governor of Kings, I declare that to be the case, so no Cape Donald (there are geysers there anyway). :P —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 20:58, June 25, 2013 (UTC)

Anyway, I'll flashcreate the articles tomorrow :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 21:04, June 25, 2013 (UTC) (yes, the academic year is over, sort of :P)
 * Anyway, does the town name "Lemburg" has something to do with "Lèmbörg"? :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 21:14, June 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * Probably Lvov, judging from Semyons origins. It used to be called Lemberg or Lemburg. Cadaro (www.tonefactory.lo) 21:24, June 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * Correct, though not because of my origins (I'm British :P). I'm hoping to go there in a couple of weeks. @Oos: I'll accept alternative etymologies. :P --Semyon 14:38, June 26, 2013 (UTC)
 * Woo!! I think our Mäöreser Mexicans finally found another place to settle :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 14:40, June 26, 2013 (UTC)

Final final version
I have just made another revision, and I am considering not doing another one. You are all allowed one additional complaint, with the added danger of me possibly ignoring it. I added Xiangu, Cornwall, and Yongye, as I am very fond of Marcus and can't possibly grant every request except his. I also complied with TimeMaster after a lengthy battle. Congrats, fighting partner! I moved Etarois towards the coast, and changed the locations of Sunderland and Oostdorp. I also removed Cape Donald (buhuhuh). :P Cadaro (www.tonefactory.lo) 21:43, June 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * We already have Abington and Lisney as our Anglo-Saxon placenames and we don't need a Chinese one, as they are mostly in Sofasi. Like I said I would like to have a Chinatown in sofasi and we can apply Chinese names locally. HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 21:47, June 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * I think Lovia is finally complete :D Glad to see Kings manily be a small mix of Dutch and British peoples alike :D Marcus/Michael Villanova 21:52, June 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks a lot. I am very content with the results too, and in the process I taught myself some more tricks in Illustrator, so I actually spent my afternoon in a meaningful way. It is pixelated heroin though, I need to stop for a moment soon :P Cadaro (www.tonefactory.lo) 21:59, June 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * Hey, don't forget the French and Germans. :C —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 22:46, June 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * I might just want to move back to Kings, But three residents already noooo :( Marcus/Michael Villanova 22:48, June 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * ? —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 22:50, June 25, 2013 (UTC)

And yes, Kings now looks perfect. Can't say about Clymene though, and, not that you have to change it, but I feel like Oceana should get an inland settlement or two moved to coast. :s —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 22:50, June 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * I used OWTB's maps, and I think that OWTB knows what he is doing when Oceana is concerned. He provided me a paint map with exact location dots, which I traced. Regarding Clymene, there has been a short hassle about it between Horton, me and Marcus, but I am actually quite content with the end result. Cadaro (www.tonefactory.lo) 23:04, June 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * So when will the "official" final final map finally come out :D? Marcus/Michael Villanova 23:11, June 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * I will continue with a road map, a state map and possibly a vegetation/land use map. There will also come a topographical map (that's just this geographical map with rivers and added landmarks). Those are only plans though, and I need to find time for them, and fit them in my "normal" life. It must continue to be fun, not a chore haha Cadaro (www.tonefactory.lo) 23:15, June 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * Haa looks great though so no need to rush yourself  glad everyone got a little something they wanted :D Marcus/Michael Villanova 23:25, June 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * Its about time Lovia got a presentable map, not to discredit any of those made beforehand, those were also very nice. This however is very professional. Thank you sir. You get a cookie. Flag of the Hurian Federation.png Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 23:59, June 25, 2013 (UTC)

@Timey: Done for several reasons. Along the Oceana Beach, which I want protected, there are tens of deserted hamlets, including those where Fade Dutch was spoken. I'm still working on Oceana's history, but the idea is that most of the hamlets disappeared together with the Isle of Bratislava. I need an explanation why Oceana people are land-minded and not sea-minded, and this could offer me a good explanation :) --O u WTBsjrief-mich 08:14, June 26, 2013 (UTC)

Give this man an award
So we need to give Mr.Cadaro an award...any suggestions :P Marcus/Michael Villanova 22:36, June 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * Well, for a start, I am going to take a wikibreak of a couple of days probably. :P Cadaro (www.tonefactory.lo) 23:27, June 25, 2013 (UTC)

Hexacode
I took the liberty to decide that Districts will get a hexacode too :P This'll be a number, so, Hurbanova is OC-HU-01, Millstreet is OC-HU-MS, Dien Village'll be OC-HU-02, Newport-Forest -03, Overbanken-Forest -04, Scotland -05, Slowane -06, Southern Oceana -07 etc. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 08:39, June 26, 2013 (UTC)
 * Good idea :P 4kant,6FRÅGOR??? 09:04, June 26, 2013 (UTC)

I disagree. I think that each urban (Hurbanova and East Hills) and rural district should get the middle letters. Then, the last two letters should go to neighborhoods/hamlets/villages. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 21:00, June 26, 2013 (UTC)
 * Problem is, we ain't got enough letters. 'Cuz we'd need to redirect the last two as well. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 21:04, June 26, 2013 (UTC)
 * I guess that each hamlet can get numbers, but I still think that each district should receive a hexacode. Doesn't have to have a seal, though. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 21:10, June 26, 2013 (UTC)
 * Okay, that would be working :) --O u WTBsjrief-mich 21:15, June 26, 2013 (UTC)

Best would be: let the states decide on it :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 21:04, June 26, 2013 (UTC)

No, I'm not gonna be blocking here :P Just make up summink and surprise me :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 21:09, June 26, 2013 (UTC)

Help wanted (native Englishies)
Yes, those Oshenna names can be a pain in the ass to pronounce, so I wanted you guys to tell me what are good options to pronounce them :P A few, I've already made-up being logical: Some I can't figure out: Any suggestions? :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 14:39, June 26, 2013 (UTC)
 * Heighnow: HAY-no
 * Dubnitz: DUB-nits
 * Boynitz: BOY-nits
 * Topolcane: TOP-pəl-cane
 * Sternaw: STIR-naw
 * Righow
 * Vrabelvrutke
 * Orwnitz (OR-nits ?)
 * Dien Vilage
 * Bardeyow


 * Righow: RICK-ho
 * Vrabelvrutke: FRAB-əl FROOD-kay
 * Orwnitz: ORE-wən-nits
 * Dien village: DEEN VILL-əg
 * Bardeyow: BAR-dee-yo

Cadaro (www.tonefactory.lo) 14:46, June 26, 2013 (UTC)
 * Why "rick" if it's written with -g and "FRAB" if it's written with a v-? :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 14:47, June 26, 2013 (UTC)
 * Native englidh speaker who has no idea how to do it either. :P The Righow one, i'm guessing would be "Rye-how" Marcus/Michael Villanova 14:50, June 26, 2013 (UTC)
 * And we've got "vrayb-l-vrut-kay" and "ore-w-nits". Let's say we call it "Rio" :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 14:59, June 26, 2013 (UTC)


 * I personally would pronounce them as follows, if I was reading them as English words:

Hope this helps. :P --Semyon 14:58, June 26, 2013 (UTC)
 * Heighnow: HAY-now (now to rhyme with cow)
 * Dubnitz: DUB-nits (dub to rhyme with rub)
 * Boynitz: BOY-nits
 * Topolcane: TOP-pəl-cane seems reasonable, Top-pəl-KAA-nay is another option.
 * Sternaw: STIR-naw (naw to rhyme with saw)
 * Righow: RIG-how (rhymes with cow) or RYE-oh (rhymes with blow) or RIDGE-oh
 * Vrabelvrutke: Vrab-el-VRUT-Ke, however, I strongly suspect it would have a nickname, such as 'Vrutke. :P
 * Orwnitz OR-nits seems legit
 * Dien Village DEEN
 * Bardeyow Bar-DAY-oh
 * Mmm.... Perhaps we should just say everybody pronounces them differently.. :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 15:00, June 26, 2013 (UTC)
 * Not very likely from the linguistic point of view. :P You should bear in mind that the pronunciation would be affected by the original Oceana pronunciation as well (if an American moves into Norwich and starts pronouncing it NOR-witch he'll be corrected pretty quickly) so I suggest for the final ones you take that into account together with everyone's suggestions. --Semyon 15:05, June 26, 2013 (UTC)
 * Yeah, true :o Let those Sylvanian city bastards keep those wrong pronunciations :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 15:06, June 26, 2013 (UTC)

I like Semyon's list, except I prefer "di-en" (not sure which one to stress), and a silent e in Topolcane. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs)
 * Di-en? As in "dye-n" or "deer-n"? :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 15:08, June 26, 2013 (UTC)
 * It could potentially be pronounced as Deen or Dine or Dye-een, though I think the disyllabic pronunciation is a little unlikely myself. That's why the Oceana pronunciation becomes the deciding factor. :P --Semyon 15:12, June 26, 2013 (UTC)
 * Yeah... Non rhotic "deer" directly followed by "n" (sort of :P) --O u WTBsjrief-mich 15:13, June 26, 2013 (UTC)
 * Is that the Oceana pronunciation? If so, possible DEE-ən. :) --Semyon 15:16, June 26, 2013 (UTC)
 * Hahah, okay :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 15:19, June 26, 2013 (UTC)

Oos, I meant DEE-en. The dee in deer without any hint of the R at all, followed by the -en in hen. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 20:58, June 26, 2013 (UTC)

The story continues...
Now that we have completed the map, I noticed a lot of you are doing great work creating the new hamlets. I think we need to work on the following things in addition to "blue-ifying" the list of hamlets: In addition, I'd like to request all governors to work on a road system for their respective states, to ease the creation of a road map. If you do this in advance, I'd be very, very grateful. Cadaro (www.tonefactory.lo) 20:49, June 26, 2013 (UTC)
 * Rehaul of the Hexacode system. Oos already came up with a few ideas, but we should discuss this first to do this right the first time.
 * Rewriting parts of the state articles. Make a list of settlements, short description of the placement and structure of the settlements.
 * Creating state maps out of my Lovia-wide map. (This already happened in Clymene)
 * Create a nation-wide district system similar to Seven.
 * Adding the navigation template and (optional) a photo of the hamlet to the hamlet articles.
 * (optional) integrate the hamlets into other articles. That is as easy as pie. Try to mention them a few times.

As for the Hexacode, I think the first two letters should be the state, the second two the urban (town or city) or rural district, and the third two the neighborhood, the hamlet, or the village. I think all states have districts now, anyway. We probably should overhaul the seal templates so they include the last four letters (without the state label), not just two (they are currently either the middle or the end). I don't know how to make a good road map, the only one so far is Kunarian's and it looks like spaghetti. :/ Also, make a few of the hamlets be villages! We have more towns than villages right now. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 20:55, June 26, 2013 (UTC)
 * I don't need/want a road map (that destroys the creative process a little for me), I just want you to come up with a description of the road network. That is, which settlement is connected to which one, passing through which settlements. I highly recommend you don't meddle with the highways. I only want you to think of secondary road (no tertiary or smaller, I will come up with them myself, and they will remain unnamed). These roads will be called Bn[x], where [x] is to be replaeced with the K for Kings, S for Sylvania, O for Oceana, C for Clymene and SE for Seven; and where the "n" is a integer. Your idea for the hexacodes is good: STATE - (URBAN/RURAL) DISTRICT - HAMLET/NEIGHBORHOOD. Cadaro (www.tonefactory.lo) 21:03, June 26, 2013 (UTC)
 * Good. :P Maybe just "7" for Seven? And can you explain how you came up with Bn[x]? Does the B stand for secondary? —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 21:15, June 26, 2013 (UTC)
 * I don't particulary like to mix up numbers and letters, but in case of Seven I don't care :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 21:24, June 26, 2013 (UTC)
 * Secondary roads should be named CR1, CR2 etc. in Clymene, for Clymene Road. Local roads would have the designtion LR1, LR2 etc but they don't need to be named on the map.  HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 16:29, June 27, 2013 (UTC)

On your points. HOWEVER. I have made a roadmap with Highways and roads big and small (although I have left country lanes out) and I would politely ask you to try and keep to that, I don't mind some changes however and to be honest if you make the roads look more like roads than my lines (which roads are not like) that'd be great however again, please keep to the plan and follow the direction of the roads on my map. I am sorry if this damages the creative process in Sylvania, I truly am. Hoffmann Kunarian TALK 16:24, June 27, 2013 (UTC)
 * Fine with this idea, ready to rehaul, don't really care too much as long as it's simple and efficient.
 * Already on that.
 * I'd like to do that but I don't have a good enough picture editor to cut out Oceana and make it look good.
 * Already done.
 * Already planning to make some nice images for my articles.
 * And wilco on Hamlets.

Clymene Today Polling June 27 - June 28
Well Here's some more polling, only for two days...In the midst of all the action going on I did think the polling should continue. Again even if your from out of state you can vote, obviously because it's anon. If the Clymene state election was held today who would you vote for? J. Abrahams (Ind.) M. Villanova (RLP) F. Szohad (SDU) G. Underhill (GP) I Don't Know/Other If the Seven stat election was held today who would you vote for? S. Breyev (Ind.) E. Taiyō (CDP) D. Leskromento (SCP) I Don't Know/Other

Please vote :D Marcus/Michael Villanova 14:13, June 27, 2013 (UTC)