Forum:Second Chamber

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The Second Chamber is one of the two chambers of the Lovian Congress, the federal legislative branch. Unlike in other nations, the lower chamber serves as a room for debating and compromising, and the higher chamber is where Members of the Congress vote bills that have passed through the First Chamber.

All inhabitants are allowed entry to the Congress, though only Members of the Congress have the right to actively participate and vote.

Lowering the power of the King/PM
This is the first part of a bigger reform plan. This part of the plan is to be treated as one proposal. The goal of this part is to give more power to the Congress and to neutralize the positions of King and PM.

Separation of Powers
Currently the Lovian Constitution states in article 1.A.3. that:
 * Lovia shall be organized based on the principle of the separation and balance of powers - legislative, executive, and judicial - within the framework of constitutional democracy.

I would like to make this more concrete by adding the following sentence:


 * Therefore no person is entitled to combine a top function in two or three branches of government; thus, the ruling monarch, the Prime Minister and the Supreme Court Judge shall be no less than three different persons.

Mid-term and Crisis Elections
One of the fields were the King and PM have too much power (compared to Congress, were the real sovereignty lies) are the organization of 'special elections'. The mid-term elections for example can only be organized on initiative of the PM. And there are no regulations at all about what to do when most of Congress is inactive. Therefore I suggest the following:


 * Changing Art.8.1.4: Mid-term elections can be organized if proposed in Congress and approved by a Congressial majority. (instead of "by the PM").
 * Adding an Art.8.1.5: New federal elections have to be held when more than half of the Members of the Congress are inactive; either self-declared or if they have not edited for over a month (31 days); or when the Prime Minister steps down.

This would also require a description of when the PM has to step down. I will handle that in the following part of this proposal.

Federal Secretaries and Impeachment
To make Congress even stronger against the King and PM, we have to build in an impeachment procedure that allows Congress to dismiss the entire government:


 * Adding an Art.8.2.3.1: When Congress has lost its trust in the incumbent government, it can vote a motion of distrust. When this motion is accepted by a normal majority (50%), both government and Congress are dissolved and new federal elections are to be held.
 * Adding an Art.8.2.3.2: When the Prime Minister and his government resign, Congress is dissolved and new federal elections are to be held.

Furthermore, Congress should be able to question Federal Secretaries and other executives of the government. Also, the power of the King and PM in the composition of the government is too big. Therefore I would make these two changes:


 * Rewriting Art.8.2.1: The monarch and PM will chose which MOTC will become Secretaries of a certain Department. Their proposal needs to be accepted by a normal majority in Congress.
 * Rewriting Art.8.2.2: Congress should be able to question all executing members of government - of any level - about their activities. When they have lost their trust in the questioned person, they can vote a motion of distrust against him/her. When this motion is accepted by a normal majority (50%), he/she has to resign and a replacement has to be proposed by the PM and approved by Congress.

Vote
All Members of the Congress are entitled to vote for or against this proposal cluster. 09:10, February 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * Please vote: Pierius, Edward and Andy! 17:25, March 5, 2010 (UTC)
 * Shouldnt be this be accepted? Pierlot McCrooke 07:25, March 10, 2010 (UTC)

PRO

 * 09:12, February 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * --O u WTBsjrief-mich 09:13, February 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * Pierlot McCrooke 09:21, February 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * 09:23, February 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * Harold Freeman 14:30, February 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * -- 17:01, February 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * --Lars Washington 17:33, February 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * 13:28, March 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * -- Dr. Magnus 20:50, March 5, 2010 (UTC)
 * Edward Hannis [[File:CogHammer.gif]] 23:23, March 5, 2010 (UTC)
 * 07:24, March 6, 2010 (UTC)

CONTRA

 * --Bucurestean 10:09, February 28, 2010 (UTC) (: Point 8.2.1)
 * Why are you against that? i think it's a good democratization. 12:04, February 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * I don't like the point which says that the King may negotiate who should come in the government and who not. --Bucurestean 12:14, February 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * but isn't it the same right now? 12:17, February 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * It is, but why should I vote for if I am against it? --Bucurestean 12:19, February 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * but this proposal is about changing other things. the thing you're voting against, is in fact not a change, I think. Aren't you in favor of the proposed changes? then you still can propose a bill to change the portion LD wants to change. 12:24, February 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * Of course there are a couple of points on which I agree but I can't confirm this one, by supporting it if I want to come in the near future with a proposal to change it? In my eyes that would be hypocrite. --Bucurestean 12:28, February 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * sometimes the choice is between hypocrite though hard-working or straight forward and non-constructive. 12:29, February 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * I just don't see this system work. Are we all going to make compromises like these because the proposer wants to? Why don't we make loose proposals? Some even include 4 totally different subjects! --Bucurestean 12:32, February 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * perhaps we should consider that indeed. 12:33, February 28, 2010 (UTC)

✅ by an absolute 91.67% majority in Congress!  08:43, March 10, 2010 (UTC)

Abolishing the undemocratic local regulations
This is the second plan of above mentioned reform plan. This part is also to be treated as a whole and aims at introducing more transparency and democracy in legal regulations.

Because legal regulations made on local levels (states, towns, etc.) are undemocratic, we should abolish them. Only Congress should be able to declare a law. This would imply the following changes to the Constitution:


 * Art. 4.2/4.3/4.4 : removing the regulations concerning judicial structures on these levels; leaving only Congress in power to declare a law.
 * Deleting Article 5, that regulates the devision of judicial power between national (Congress) and local level(s).
 * Art. 6.1: replacing 'Federal or State Law' by just 'Federal Law'.
 * Art. 6.3: removing the regulations concerning the creation of a State Law.

Furthermore, I would like to make it possible for anyone to propose a law. Currently, only MOTC can do so. This would require the following changes:


 * Art. 6.2.1: One or more Members of the Congress write a motion --> Anyone can write a motion and propose it in Congress (First Chamber)
 * Art. 7.3.1: One or more Members of the Congress write an amendment --> Anyone can write an amendment and propose it in Congress (First Chamber)

Also, the judicial institutions on state level should be abolished. There are - luckily - not too many trials in Lovia and Supreme Court can manage them all. Therefor I would like to suggest that we also alter the following:


 * Art. 9.1: All judicial cases are to be handled by the Supreme Court (instead of the endless list of what they can do and what is for State Court).
 * The deletion of Article 10, which names the fields of authority for the State Courts.

Vote
All Members of the Congress are entitled to vote for or against this proposal cluster. 09:10, February 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * Please vote: Andy, Arthur and Lars! 17:29, March 5, 2010 (UTC)

PRO

 * 09:13, February 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * , under the condition a new function for the states can be found later on Harold Freeman 14:32, February 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * Edward Hannis [[File:CogHammer.gif]] 17:46, February 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * 13:28, March 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * Are you aware that states will become useless from this act? Pierlot McCrooke 13:33, March 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * She's a fast reader* ;) --Bucurestean 13:35, March 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * Unlike in other parties, we the Progressives do discuss things first with each other =) So I was rather familiar with this prop. 13:37, March 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * -- 19:51, March 5, 2010 (UTC) (I am not entirely convinced, mostly because I actually support a bicameral system in which one chamber is based on the state elections. Still, I do support the basic idea behind this proposal, and I sure like it more than a simple "No, not good enough" kind of vote.)

CONTRA

 * --O u WTBsjrief-mich 09:14, February 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * States wuld become useless of it Pierlot McCrooke 09:19, February 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * --Bucurestean 10:17, February 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * --Dr. Magnus 12:30, February 28, 2010 (UTC)

ABSTENTION

 * I think we can work out a better proposal. I invite all members, and especially those who oppose this proposal, to get their pens out and write. 15:40, February 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * I will give it a think! -- 19:48, February 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * , will these changes lead eventually to a dictatorship without any democratic reasoning ? --Lars Washington 07:13, March 6, 2010 (UTC)
 * i'm in doubt. 07:29, March 6, 2010 (UTC)

'''This proposal has not been accepted by Congress. A 75% majority was required. 41.67% was in favor of the bill, 33.33% opposed the bill, and 25.00% abstained.'''  08:46, March 10, 2010 (UTC)

Changes in the citizenship regulations (new version)
This is the final part of the reform plan and is rather small. I believe its intention is clear.

Article 3 – The Lovian citizenship
 * 1) Every inhabitant of Lovia has the right to become a Lovian citizen.
 * 2) An inhabitant of Lovia is every person who has a domicile (permanent residence) within Lovia.
 * 3) There are requirements to become a Lovian citizen:
 * 4) He or she must reside in Lovia.
 * 5) He or she must have made at least 50 edits.
 * 6) Acts of vandalism or related edits are not to be included in this count.
 * 7) He or she must truthfully provide the following personal information:
 * 8) His or her official name that consists of at least one given name and a surname.
 * 9) His or her biological sex.
 * 10) His or her domicile (permanent residence); this being a full adress of a residence in a Lovian city or town.
 * 11) The rights of a citizen are described in Article 2.
 * 12) One's citizenship may be taken away as a punishment in a trial.

Vote
All Members of the Congress are entitled to vote for or against this proposal cluster. 09:10, February 28, 2010 (UTC)

PRO

 * 09:13, February 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * --O u WTBsjrief-mich 09:14, February 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * Pierlot McCrooke 09:22, February 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * 09:22, February 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * 11:38, February 28, 2010 (UTC) (good)
 * -- Dr. Magnus 12:27, February 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * a step in the good direction Harold Freeman 14:33, February 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * -- 17:03, February 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * --Lars Washington 17:32, February 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * Edward Hannis [[File:CogHammer.gif]] 18:14, February 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * --Bucurestean 21:39, March 1, 2010 (UTC)
 * 13:29, March 2, 2010 (UTC)

ABSTENTION

 * --Bucurestean 10:20, February 28, 2010 (UTC) (: Point 2.2)

Come on Alyssa, you're the last to vote on this one. An unanimous majority would be great! 07:18, March 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * ✅ by an absolute and unanimous majority!  17:30, March 5, 2010 (UTC)

Amendment bill: Article 1B
I wish to rewrite the Constitutional Article 1B (about the monarchy).

Current state
Article 1 B - Lovia is a monarchy, ruled by a king or queen.
 * 1) The ruling monarch is the person who inherited the throne. This can be the king or the queen.
 * 2) The partner of the ruling monarch is the one who married the person who inherited the throne and
 * 3) A new king or queen:
 * 4) The monarch of Lovia is the first-born child of the previous ruling monarch.
 * 5) The person the most related to the former king will become ruling monarch.
 * 6) * If the former monarch didn’t have any children.
 * 7) * If the first-born child refuses to become king or queen.
 * 8) The heir to the throne has to sign the constitution before his or her inauguration.
 * 9) The king or queen and his or her partner are automatically Members of the Congress.
 * 10) The king and queen have the right to become a federal secretary and/or a member of one or more state governments and/or a member of a city or town government.
 * 11) The ruling monarch receives means by the Department of Finance to compensate his or her expenses. The Secretary of Finance has the right to turn down means if the expenses are not of any general use or if the monarch has spent too much on unnecessary items.
 * 12) The ruling monarch can also:
 * 13) * Grant a civilian an extra living as a gift.
 * 14) * Grant a company or store the right to be an official Royal Warrant.
 * 15) Every member of the Royal family is equal to normal citizens.

Proposed state
Article 1 B - Lovia is a monarchy, ruled by the ruling monarch.
 * 1) The ruling monarch is the person who legally inherited the throne from the previous ruling monarch. He or she is thus a descendant of the first Lovian monarch, King Arthur I of Lovia (Arthur Noble).
 * 2) The ruling monarch can be either male (the King) or female (the Queen).
 * 3) The partner of the ruling monarch is the person who legally married the ruling monarch. She is a member of the royal family, but does not enjoy privileges over the citizens of Lovia.
 * 4) The person who legally inherits the Lovian throne, after the previous ruling monarch has either deceased or abdicated, is the person who is most directly related in terms of kinship to the previous ruling monarch.
 * 5) The heir to the throne will sign the Constitution upon his coronation.
 * 6) The ruling monarch is Member of the Congress by Right, meaning he is automatically granted a seat in the Lovian Congress.
 * 7) The ruling monarch is thus not permitted to participate in elections to Congress.
 * 8) The ruling monarch has the right to demand financial support from the Department of Finances, in which case the Secretary of Finance can decide to grant the ruling monarch an amount of money, in agreement with Congress.
 * 9) With the exception of the ruling monarch in function, no member of the royal family is granted extra-legal privileges. Each member of the royal family, with the exception of the ruling monarch in function, is a regular citizen as determined by the Constitution.

Changes
This is what I did:
 * 1) I formalized the article's word use and brought some uniformity to the use of terms as "ruling monarch" and "king or queen".
 * 2) I simplified the paragraph about inheriting the throne.
 * 3) The queen formally was an automatic MOTC as well (!). This I deleted.
 * 4) I deleted the sentence that the king and queen could become secretary and such: that sentence was not needed. As long as there is no sentence saying they cannot do so, they can.
 * 5) I deleted the sentence about the king getting money from the Finance Department. Instead, I added a sentence saying the king could ask for money, and that the Congress would have to agree with what the Finance Secretary decided to do with it.
 * 6) I deleted the king's right to:
 * 7) * Give extra residences to some citizens (very undemocratic)
 * 8) * Do Royal Warrants (silly system)
 * 9) I reformed the last sentence about the other members of the royal family. Qua content, nothing changes here.

Vote
All Members of the Congress are entitled to vote for or against this proposal cluster. 09:10, February 28, 2010 (UTC)

PRO

 * -- Dr. Magnus 09:13, February 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * 09:14, February 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * --O u WTBsjrief-mich 09:14, February 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * Pierlot McCrooke 09:20, February 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * 09:22, February 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * 12:02, February 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * Harold Freeman 14:34, February 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * --Lars Washington 17:31, February 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * 17:31, February 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * Edward Hannis [[File:CogHammer.gif]] 17:45, February 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * 13:30, March 2, 2010 (UTC)

CONTRA

 * --Bucurestean 10:26, February 28, 2010 (UTC) (: Point 5)
 * Glad to see you back. But uh... gone crazy? Why against point 5? :s 11:34, February 28, 2010 (UTC)]
 * I am against your automatic seat in Congress. Gone crazy? Well thanks, just read LQ. --Bucurestean 12:11, February 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * I hope this wont be a political crisis Pierlot McCrooke 12:13, February 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * Of course it won't, McCrooke. If a majority agrees, the law will pass. Period. Dr. Magnus 12:15, February 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * I don't see why this would result in a political crisis :P --Bucurestean 12:20, February 28, 2010 (UTC)

✅ by an absolute 91.67% majority in Congress!  17:43, March 5, 2010 (UTC)

Voting options amendment bill
Something that never went to the First Chamber. Pierlot McCrooke 18:42, March 5, 2010 (UTC)

Proposal
Constitution, Article 6.2.4:
 * Every Member of the Congress can vote (pro, contra or abstention).

Should be:
 * Every Member of the Congress can vote (pro, contra, neutral, back to first chamber, merge proposal with another or abstention).

I think that is good. Pierlot McCrooke 18:42, March 5, 2010 (UTC)

Voting
Proposed is an amendment to the Constitution. A 75% majority is required. 18:50, March 5, 2010 (UTC)

PRO

 * 1)  --Pierlot McCrooke 19:02, March 5, 2010 (UTC) We shoud REALLY get these voting options

CONTRA

 * 1)  No use in these extra options. When a proposal isn't ready to go into law (because it should be changed, or is just a bad proposal), then we just vote against it. If it isn't, we vote pro. Easy as pie, I think. By the way: we can't demand that an article goes back to the First Chamber: that is something only the proposer (or anybody else who wants to take over the issue) can do. You mean well Pierlot, but all these options are there already - in some way.  18:55, March 5, 2010 (UTC)
 * We should includ that as voting option Pierlot McCrooke 19:00, March 5, 2010 (UTC)
 * 1)  -- 19:53, March 5, 2010 (UTC) (I disagree with the further complication of the law.)
 * The current 'back to first chamber-system' is undemocratic. THat is why i pproposed that. Pierlot McCrooke 19:57, March 5, 2010 (UTC)
 * Undemocratic? In what way, my friend? -- 19:57, March 5, 2010 (UTC)
 * Currently anyone who is a MOTC may put a proposal back to first chamber without voting. With this proposal this would have to be voted. Pierlot McCrooke 20:00, March 5, 2010 (UTC)
 * Is that undemocratic? -- 20:05, March 5, 2010 (UTC)
 * My proposal will fix that undemocratic situation. By adding a back to first chamber  voting option. The voting option: Pierlot McCrooke 20:08, March 5, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yes, yes, thát I understand. But why is it an "undemocratic situation"? -- 20:10, March 5, 2010 (UTC)
 * Because currently the back to first chamber-going is not voted Pierlot McCrooke 20:11, March 5, 2010 (UTC)
 * Why should that be voted? No country in the world does that... -- 20:19, March 5, 2010 (UTC)
 * I meant, that a proposal can be~by anyone put back for adjustments for First chamber without that putting back voted. A proposal going back should only happen i think when much MOTC have voted for the Back to First Chamber-option. Hope you understand me now Pierlot McCrooke 20:25, March 5, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yes, yes, I do understand. But is that a bad thing? I see your point, my dear Pierlot, but I find no problem in a senator having the chance to decide for himself if he still thinks his proposal is viable enough to get it back to the First Chamber, or not. Perhaps this is not all about democracy, but about personal rights as well. -- 20:27, March 5, 2010 (UTC)
 * In some cases (like this), Democracy goes for Pierlot McCrooke 20:31, March 5, 2010 (UTC)
 * 1)  -- Dr. Magnus 20:46, March 5, 2010 (UTC)
 * Do not forget to vote on the first issue as well, Mr. Donia . -- 20:48, March 5, 2010 (UTC)
 * Donia, did you already READ the proposal? You seem randon to me Donia Pierlot McCrooke 20:54, March 5, 2010 (UTC)
 * Let's just say I don't believe it to be... necessary, so to speak... The voting system is fine as it is. I have no problem with it whatsoever. No offense. Dr. Magnus 20:57, March 5, 2010 (UTC)
 * I believe the current system is good, but it needs some adjustments. For example that anyone may move a proposal back to First Chamber without congress voting that. That is undeMocratic. That is why I creating the voting option . So Congress gets democraticaller Pierlot McCrooke 21:02, March 5, 2010 (UTC)
 * Well, McCrooke, I must say: you have quite a talent of saying things very clearly! In this last point agree. Dr. Magnus 21:04, March 5, 2010 (UTC)
 * 1)  -- pierlot, WLP stands for simplification, not complication.  07:26, March 6, 2010 (UTC)
 * 2)  --O u WTBsjrief-mich 07:44, March 6, 2010 (UTC)
 * andy it may be complication, but the current situation on placing proposals back to First Chmamber is undemocratic. That is why i created a voting option on that. I hope OWTB knows also now Pierlot McCrooke 07:58, March 6, 2010 (UTC)
 * OWTB knows that there is no need for an even more complicated system. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 08:01, March 6, 2010 (UTC)
 * Complication in some case like these is needed to have a democratic system where everything needs to be voted. Proposals going back should be only done when most MOtc vote option . Otherwise it will be undemocratic. So you want undemocratic things? Pierlot McCrooke 08:05, March 6, 2010 (UTC)
 * Nobody cares about this "undemocratic" thing, and I believe democracy is not the best way of ruling a country, so I don't see the use of this. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 08:14, March 6, 2010 (UTC)
 * But because Lovia is a Democracy Lovia should have it Pierlot McCrooke 08:25, March 6, 2010 (UTC)
 * Apparently not. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 08:32, March 6, 2010 (UTC)
 * 1)  A dumb addition, and just makes things more complicated. The current system is fine.  Edward Hannis  [[File:CogHammer.gif]] 23:28, March 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * No votes please, propsal is being discussed in First Chamber Pierlot McCrooke 07:20, March 14, 2010 (UTC)
 * 1)  Bucurestean 12:54, March 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * again no vote please because this been is been discussed in first chamber Pierlot McCrooke 14:11, March 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * 1)   15:50, March 26, 2010 (UTC)

Abstention
'''WILL GO BACK TO FIRST CHAMBER. SO NO VOTING PLEASE'''
 * Good luck with your second chance :) --O u WTBsjrief-mich 08:36, March 6, 2010 (UTC)
 * It is so adjustments can be made. Look at First Chamber Pierlot McCrooke 08:38, March 6, 2010 (UTC)
 * Isn't that undemocratic? ;) 09:14, March 6, 2010 (UTC)
 * It may be but it first needs some adjusmtnets Pierlot McCrooke 09:16, March 6, 2010 (UTC)

This vote is closed.  17:41, March 26, 2010 (UTC)

Preface
The present situation:
 * There is only one highway (Highway 1) in use
 * Lovia being an archipelago of small islands, the construction of new highways is rather difficult
 * The highways are numbered, starting at one; and so far only Highway 1 is in use

Highway plan
The 2010 Highway Plan consists of these items:
 * In the United States, odd numbers generally indicate a north-south route, and even numbers mean an east-west route. We could adopt this system in Lovia as well.
 * In that case, the Highway 1 will be divided into smaller portions:
 * The section Hurbanova-Noble City will become the new Highway 2
 * The section Noble City-Train Village will remain Highway 1, and this road will be extended both north and south
 * The section Train Village-Newhaven will become the new Highway 4, and will also be extended west
 * A north-south oriented highway across Kings will be constructed, and be named Highway 3
 * A north-south oriented highway across Asian Island will be constructed, and be named Highway 5
 * In a later phase, a north-south oriented highway from the Emerald Highlands (Clave Rock and East Hills) to Hurbanova would be constructed, and be named Highway 7

Highway overview
The proposed system:
 * Highway 1 new.png Highway 1: Blue Sea shore - Train Village - Noble City - southern tip of Sylvania
 * Highway 2 new.png Highway 2: Hurbanova - Noble City
 * Highway 3 new.png Highway 3: northern tip of Kings - Newhaven
 * Highway 4 new.png Highway 4: Clave Rock - Train Village - Connection Bridge - Newhaven
 * Highway 5 new.png Highway 5: Adoha - Clymene State Airport - Sofasi
 * Highway 7 new.png Highway 7: Clave Rock - East Hills - Hurbanova (as suggested by our esteemed colleague Mr. Ilava)

Construction plan

 * Phase 1: Re-organization of Highway 1 (April 2010)
 * Phase 2: Construction of primary connections (April 2010 - September 2010)
 * Full construction Highway 3
 * Full construction Highway 5
 * Phase 3: Construction of secondary connections (October 2010 - January 2011)
 * Construction Highway 1 between the Blue Sea shore and Train Village
 * Construction Highway 1 between the Noble City and the southern tip of Sylvania
 * Construction Highway 4 between Clave Rock and Train Village
 * Phase 4: Construction of the Emeralds-Hurbanova connection (December 2010 - March 2011)
 * Construction Highway 7 between Clave Rock, East Hills and Hurbanova

Voting
This proposal will not be incorporated into any legal text: i just want the Congress to approve with my plan. Please read it well! 07:50, March 7, 2010 (UTC)

PRO

 * 1)   07:50, March 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * 2)  --O u WTBsjrief-mich 08:07, March 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * 3)  Pierlot McCrooke 09:05, March 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * 4)   15:59, March 7, 2010 (UTC) (absolutely PRO )
 * 5)  -- 18:45, March 8, 2010 (UTC)
 * 6)   09:44, March 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * 7)  --Lars Washington 15:35, March 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * 8)   Edward Hannis  [[File:CogHammer.gif]] 23:23, March 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * 9)  Harold Freeman 08:30, March 19, 2010 (UTC)
 * 10)  Bucurestean 12:54, March 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * ✅ by all voting members.  07:44, March 24, 2010 (UTC)
 * 1)   15:51, March 26, 2010 (UTC)

Government support for media campaign on health care
The whole media campaign may seem a bit silly, but I would like the Milk is good for everyone-media campaign to get official government recognition and support in order to improve the health of our children and our elderly citizens. Perhaps we could arrange something with the department of healthcare. I believe we should introduce the "three-pints-'o-milk-a-day" rule or something like that. And to lower the prices on calcium tablets for those people who suffer from lactose intolerance. Dr. Magnus 20:19, March 8, 2010 (UTC)

Pro

 * - Dr. Magnus 20:15, March 8, 2010 (UTC)
 * --O u WTBsjrief-mich 17:21, March 9, 2010 (UTC) I'll drink alcoholic milk instead of my nightly beer ;)

Contra

 * - to me, this looks more like an ad from the milkman --Lars Washington 09:16, March 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * Great private campaign, and that's how it should be. 08:53, March 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * I beg to differ; read my comment below. Dr. Magnus 10:51, March 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * Stupid campaign, I will support Yuri's thing Pierlot McCrooke 08:31, March 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * The government should not suddenly become affiliated with groups of this sort. Neutrality is key. Edward Hannis  [[File:CogHammer.gif]] 23:25, March 11, 2010 (UTC)

Abstention

 * I made a more general proposal in the First Chamber so that not every campaign has to be voted separately. 09:48, March 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * 15:22, March 12, 2010 (UTC) (see PM yuri)
 * I agree with our Chairman. -- 18:29, March 13, 2010 (UTC)
 * 15:51, March 26, 2010 (UTC)

because no majority could be formed.  07:46, March 24, 2010 (UTC)

Remark
I don't think we should financially support this campaign, for these specific reasons:
 * 1) There is no scientific material backing up the health claims made. If the government wants to spend money on a specific campaign, we should make sure this campaign is responsible and correct.
 * 2) Alcoholic milk? I agree with AJ that this is not done. The government already voted in a bill on alcohol consumption and trying to advertise for it now is not in line with our attitude towards alcohol.
 * 3) You should have involved the Secretary of Welfare, Edward Hannis, first.
 * 4) This campaign is a very good idea, and I support (most of) its ideals (because calcium is vital in life), but I'm not sure why the Gov should pay for it. And if she should, it should be more professional, as said in my previous remarks   08:42, March 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * Pieirus Magnus seems to do nothing with hsi own department. Shouldnt we fire him? Pierlot McCrooke 09:11, March 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * A lot of people aren't (including myself) because (1) good projects take time and (2) you can't write proposals 24/7! If this campaign would get cleaned up a bit and is handed over to the welfare department, I would support it. Perhaps there should be a general list of campaigns that can get support like smoking, abusive drinking, anti-conception, etc. 09:50, March 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * Increasing the taxes for all companies importing/producing/marketing/distributing/using products that could harm health of our citizens (tabacco/alcohol/food additives (such as flavour enhancers, etc.), would give the government extra income to spend on health campaigns and actually participate more frequently. --Lars Washington 10:27, March 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yet another great idea. With some more brainstorming this could become a pretty strong proposal! 10:39, March 9, 2010 (UTC)


 * Well, as of the alcoholic milk-thingy - it was added by OWTB, presumably as a joke. It was well-meant, and very funny, but I just removed that sentence, because I believe that to be better. As of the Secretary of Welfare-thing - I have contacted the welfare department but did not get a response. And I am a very unpatient man so I made this proposal. Why I think the government should pay for this? Well, that is not what I meant. I would like the government, however, to be involved in the campaign to strenghten the message. By making commercials, a poster and perhaps by lowering prices of milk and other dairy products (as opposed to highering prices of alcohol and smoke wear)... Then, at last, the scientific importance in all this is the calcium-stronger-bones story, which I read about at several occasions. I hope this will pass and I hope the campaign will get a special status and support, overall now. Dr. Magnus 16:09, March 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * I support your initiative, but will keep my vote abstended. I think you should keep working in the article, but Congress shouldn't vote on supporting just this one campaign. You should have made a complete list of all subjects that can get support. Anyone with such a campaign could then go to the Department of Welfare to apply. I will make a general rewriting in the First Chamber. 08:20, March 11, 2010 (UTC)

Health and Charity Campaigns Act
I would like to propose the following: Article 13 - Health and Charity Campaigns Act
 * 1) Any non-profit campaign that is privately organized, putting effort in the realization of one or more of the topics listed below, shall be able to apply for financial and/or infrastructural support at the Department of Welfare.
 * 2) Campaigns eligible for government support are:
 * 3) Campaigns which counteract, try to prevent or raise awareness about abusive consumption of food, alcoholic beverages, tobacco, and/or narcotics.
 * 4) Campaigns which counteract, try to prevent or raise awareness about violence, hatred, and/or discrimination.
 * 5) Campaigns which promote or give advice about a healthy lifestyle.
 * 6) Campaigns which raise support, either by means of financial contributions or other means, for charitable causes in and outside Lovia.
 * 7) Campaigns which promote or give advice about a proper education.
 * 8) Campaigns which promote or give advice about the use of contraceptives.
 * 9) Any campaign applying for government support shall make use of factual information in support of its goal.

A list with concrete examples can be found in the First Chamber. Also some credits: inspired by the August Magnus Donia-Oos Wes Ilava campaign and enhanced by Dimitri Noble. 14:58, March 12, 2010 (UTC)

Voting
Please all vote! 07:46, March 24, 2010 (UTC)

Pro

 * 1)   14:59, March 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * 2)  --O u WTBsjrief-mich 15:03, March 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * 3)  good!  15:23, March 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * 4)  -- 18:30, March 13, 2010 (UTC)
 * 5)   07:09, March 14, 2010 (UTC)
 * 6)  Pierlot McCrooke 07:19, March 14, 2010 (UTC) then we dont have to vote everyone
 * 7)  100% Pro.  Edward Hannis  [[File:CogHammer.gif]] 15:48, March 14, 2010 (UTC)
 * 8)  Dr. Magnus 15:50, March 14, 2010 (UTC)
 * 9)  Harold Freeman 08:31, March 19, 2010 (UTC)
 * 10)  Bucurestean 12:55, March 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * 11)  --Lars Washington 06:47, March 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * 12)   15:52, March 26, 2010 (UTC)

✅ by a unanimous majority.  13:29, April 20, 2010 (UTC)

Amendment of Constitutional Article 11, including language reform
Parentheses suck. In our Constitution, Article 11.4, we find the following line:
 * The national language is (American) English.

I very much dislike it, for it is unclear and ambiguous. That is why I want to propose a rewriting of the entire Article 11 (which is a small one), and together with that a more extended legislation regarding language.

Current state
Article 11 – National symbols
 * 1) The federal capital of Lovia is Noble City, Sylvania.
 * 2) The national symbol of Lovia is a white pine tree.
 * 3) The national colors are: navy, red and white.
 * 4) The national language is (American) English.

Proposed state
Article 11 – National symbols and language
 * 1) The federal capital of Lovia is Noble City, Sylvania.
 * 2) The national symbol of Lovia is the white pine tree.
 * 3) The national colors of Lovia are navy blue, red and white.
 * 4) The national flag of Lovia has a navy blue hoist, a red fly and the white pine tree as badge.
 * 5) The national language is English.
 * 6) The variety of English spoken and written by the Lovians is Lovian English. Lovian English is defined as a variety of American English, sharing its orthography and grammar, and most of its pronunciation and vocabulary, supplemented with lexical and grammatical features that are generally recognized as Lovian and that are understandable to all Lovians.
 * 7) The Lovian authorities of all levels shall make use of standardized Lovian English in all official documents.
 * 8) The language Oceana is recognized as a regional minority language, and shall thus be protected from extinction.
 * 9) The language may publicly be used by its speakers, under the condition that an accurate English translation shall be provided within a reasonable time.
 * 10) The Narasha 'Oshenna Rát or Oceana Language Council is a federal institution under the Department of Culture, Heritage and Education that shall preserve the language through literary, cultural and lexicographical projects. The Narasha 'Oshenna Rát is entitled to regulate and promote the use of Oceana language.

Changes
What changes?
 * I incorporated the Flag of Lovia within our Constitution.
 * I changed some phrases into clear and proper English.
 * I made "English" our national language.
 * I made "Lovian English" the "variety of English spoken and written within Lovia"; and I defined it as "a variety of American English" sharing most of its characteristics, supplemented with our own features.
 * Standardized Lovian English is the language to be used by all authorities.
 * I (finally) recognized Oceana (language) as a regional minority language, that is protected from extinction.

Voting
Dear Members of the Congress, cast your votes! This is a proposed Constitutional amendment and therefore requires a 75% majority in Congress. 06:44, April 5, 2010 (UTC)

PRO

 * 1)    06:44, April 5, 2010 (UTC)
 * 2)  --O u WTBsjrief-mich 07:04, April 5, 2010 (UTC)
 * 3)  - You could make it a mandatory that all people who speak foreign languages tranlate what they say in order for all those who read it to be able to understand. This goas especially to Oshenna and Oceana and all those nonsensical languages - so that the normal users, Average Joe, can read what they are saying.  Dr. Magnus 08:09, April 5, 2010 (UTC)
 * 4)  --Bucurestean 12:51, April 5, 2010 (UTC)
 * 5)   14:01, April 5, 2010 (UTC)
 * 6)   06:05, April 6, 2010 (UTC)
 * 7)  - As an Aesopist, I fully support this amendment. --Lars Washington 16:07, April 6, 2010 (UTC)
 * 8)  -- 12:10, April 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * 9)   14:18, April 10, 2010 (UTC)

CONTRA

 * 1) We are a nation of acceptance and of inofficialization. By adding anything more than what we have, we imply that those who do not comply with our official system (i.e. cannot speak English) are not welcomed. English may remain our official language de facto, but we cannot make an amendment to officialize it. You do not have my vote.  Edward Hannis  [[File:CogHammer.gif]] 01:13, April 6, 2010 (UTC)
 * May I note that there is no implication of non-tolerance towards other languages in this amendment? 07:08, April 7, 2010 (UTC)

ABSTENTION

 * 1)  I encourage the protection of rights for minorities but mister Hannis has a point. I will keep my vote under consideration. Harold Freeman 09:25, April 6, 2010 (UTC)
 * Consider well. 07:09, April 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * Indeed, as English already is the national language according to the constitution, the only real change in this proposal would be the recognition of Oceana and its protection against extinction. Bucurestean 13:33, April 13, 2010 (UTC)

Conclusion
This may be a little complicated, so I will list the facts and the conclusion I made out of those facts: I therefore conclude that ✅. I myself find this a rather dubious situation (though I am glad the proposal is accepted), and if there is a Member who finds himself in opposition to this conclusion, I want to hear that from him/her as soon as possible (I give you one week). 13:35, April 20, 2010 (UTC)
 * 11 Members of the Congress voted. Pierlot McCrooke, who resigned, did not vote.
 * 1 opposing vote and 1 abstention.
 * 9 favorable votes = 81.82%
 * I agree that this is a fair conclusion. The only other reasonable option would have been this: Both Pierlot and Magnus resigned, and thus their votes are not included. Therefore, there are 8 favorable votes and 2 non-favorable votes. That would result in a 80.00% favorability rate. -- 10:41, April 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * True. 15:57, April 24, 2010 (UTC)

Investments in Oceana
Forum:First Chamber for the entire explication

Investments are needed to comply with the demand. New jobs are needed for Oceana people, a pull factor for companies would be higher educated people. We should not slow down the economic grow.
 * Renovate the damaged old buildings
 * 7 million dollars Hurbanova
 * 1,2 million dollars East Hills
 * Small sea resort just south of Noble City to keep tourists away from the Oceana Reef.
 * Estimated costs 15-45 million
 * More financial support for Shkola Hurbanovni
 * Costs to be settled
 * New plants and research center in Oceana
 * Costs to be settled

Vote
All Members of the Congress are entitled to vote for or against this proposal cluster.

PRO

 * 1)  Bucurestean 09:30, April 24, 2010 (UTC)
 * 2)  the involved departments should make more of these proposals!  07:38, April 27, 2010 (UTC)

CONTRA

 * 1)  The people who regard themselves as Oceanan Lovians have not been willing to put in some private input into their state. In other states, this has happened often. Perhaps it is time for Oceanan Lovians to get to work themselves, instead of asking the gov for federal tax money.  11:59, April 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * By everyone according to his possibilities, for everyone according to his needs  05:47, April 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * Very nice of Marx. But I'm sure Karlieboy would have disliked people who ask more than they need and do less than they can. 06:04, April 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm sure the money will result in some nice new projects (in the form of finished articles of course). Maybe we should have given you some more touchable proposals? 06:08, April 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yes, that would have been nice. 06:15, April 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * A faro, renovation of the harbor, organization of collective farming, ... 06:17, April 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * Hahahaha. Sounds more like a commune xD. 06:20, April 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * With collective farming I meant the organization of private farmers to stand strong against big food companies, not the creation of sovnarchozes. And 'faro' is supposed to be lighthouse. 06:23, April 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * Must admit that Dimitri is right. Besides I forgot that Lovia is not in such a hard situation like Europe (look at Spain for example) at the moment. Bucurestean 20:48, May 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * 1)  btw: Oceana has already been promised important new highway connections.  16:23, May 2, 2010 (UTC)

ABSTENTION

 * 1) Dimitri brings forth some strong arguments there. I'll try to boom up the Oceana economy myself then (of course when I have time..) --O u WTBsjrief-mich 07:19, April 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * 2)  I agree with HRH and MOTC Ilava. -- 09:38, April 29, 2010 (UTC)

Irony
The man who wants to rule out the "extremists" of the CPL-NM is the one who proposes the most leftist proposal ever in Congress. Epic fail. 11:15, April 24, 2010 (UTC)
 * We aren't extremist, we're just unconventional. Those are two very different words! I guess people fear what they don't know, the entire image that surrounds the CPL-NM is incorrect. 07:40, April 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * I know. Not my politics, but certainly not extremism either. 11:56, April 27, 2010 (UTC)

2010 Mid-term Elections
As Prime Minister I hereby propose the following dates for mid-term elections to the Congress:


 * Candidatures can be made from May 1 to May 16
 * All citizens will be allowed to vote from May 17 to May 31
 * The elected officials will be inaugurated on June 1

A normal majority is needed for this proposal to be accepted. I also would like to ask all MOTC to cast their vote ASAP. 10:55, April 29, 2010 (UTC)

PRO

 * 1)   10:56, April 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * 2)    11:01, April 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * 3)  --O u WTBsjrief-mich 11:18, April 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * 4)  Harold Freeman 05:36, April 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * 5)  --Lars Washington 07:32, April 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * 6)   08:10, May 1, 2010 (UTC)
 * 7)  -- 06:24, May 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * 8)   16:22, May 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * 9)  --Bucurestean 20:52, May 11, 2010 (UTC)

Conclusion
I therefore conclude that ✅. I apologize myself for the haste with which we had to handle this proposal. 09:56, May 1, 2010 (UTC)
 * (feel free to keep voting, the more legitimate the better) 07:26, May 2, 2010 (UTC)

First version (not for vote)
The following changes are to be applied to the corresponding articles:

''8.3.3. Every citizen has three votes: a major vote, a minor vote and one favor vote. These are worth one, two and three points respectively. Voting for less then three candidates is allowed but it is not possible to cast multiple votes for one candidate.'' ''8.3.4. The candidates with the most points, and at least six, will become Members of the Congress. But there is a limit of Members of the Congress. This number is decided by the previous Prime Minister, and should always be between 5 and 30. When several candidates have the same amount of points, priority is given to votes of the higher rank.'' ''8.3.5. The candidate with the most points will become Prime Minister. When several candidates have the same amount of points, priority is given to votes of the higher rank.''

More information can be found here or you can address me directly on my talk page. Also note that if this proposal gets accepted before May 17 it is to be applied in the mid-term elections. 14:05, May 7, 2010 (UTC)

Actual version (this is the one we're voting about)
8.1.3. Federal (non-mid-term) elections procedure:
 * 1) During a period of three weeks, any Lovian citizen can, without restrictions, become a candidate in the Federal Elections. This period begins exactly one month and twenty-one days before Inauguration Day.
 * 2) During a period of twenty-five to thirty-one days, any Lovian citizen can cast his or her votes in favor of candidates in the Federal Elections.
 * 3) The period during which citizens may vote is decided by the Prime Minister in office.
 * 4) Every citizen may cast three favorable votes in the Federal Elections: a Major Vote, a Minor Vote and a Favor Vote. A Major Vote is worth three points, a Minor Vote two and a Favor Vote one.
 * 5) Citizens may choose not to cast their votes, or some of them.
 * 6) Citizens may not cast multiple votes for the same candidate. All cast votes must be given to different candidates.
 * 7) All candidates who received votes worth at least six points, will become Members of the Congress, unless the number of elected candidates is larger than the membership limit, decided by the Prime Minister in office at the moment of the elections. The membership limit must always be between five and thirty and is decided one month prior to Inauguration Day. In this case, the candidates with the highest number of points are elected to Congress. In the case of an ex aequo, priority is given to the candidate with the most Major Votes.
 * 8) The candidate who received votes worth the most points, will become Member of the Congress and Prime Minister. In the case of an ex aequo, priority is given to the candidate with the most Major Votes.

8.1.4. Mid-term elections may be organized if proposed in Congress and approved by a Congressial majority.
 * 1) The procedure is equal to that of the normal federal elections; with only these differences:
 * 2) The candidacy period as well as the voting period are chosen by the Congress.
 * 3) The membership limit for candidates to join the existing Congress is between no less than five and no more than ten.
 * 4) Members of the Congress remain in Congress and do not have to participate in the Mid-term elections. All elected candidates join Congress.

Voting
A special majority required. 15:32, May 8, 2010 (UTC)

PRO

 * 1)   14:07, May 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * 2)   15:32, May 8, 2010 (UTC)
 * 3)   09:41, May 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * 4)  what is a special majority? Harold Freeman 15:15, May 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * I think a majority of more than 75% of Congress is required to amend the Constitution. -- 06:11, May 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * 1)  -- 06:11, May 10, 2010 (UTC) (Though I am a bit skeptical about this new thing, I found some good features in it too. Let's hope it does what good voting systems should do: give the people a way to elect their favorites in a proper fashion.)
 * 2)  Think this might change in a good direction  17:59, May 13, 2010 (UTC)
 * 3)  Boosting the country ! --Lars Washington 15:10, May 14, 2010 (UTC)

CONTRA

 * 1)  --O u WTBsjrief-mich 09:43, May 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * 2)  Bucurestean 20:51, May 11, 2010 (UTC) (However I see many improvements, I think that there must be a better alternative than the proposed "point system")
 * As there is...? 05:55, May 12, 2010 (UTC)