Forum:The Pub

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nl:Forum:De kroegli:Forum:De Kaffeero:RoWikicity:Cafeneasv:Forum:Krogen Welcome to The Pub! This is the general meeting place in Lovia. Inhabitants can make public announcements, have a friendly chat with some copatriots, or discuss crucial issues in Lovian politics or business. Speeches can also be made at Speakers' Corner. All archives of The Pub can be found here.

An update on recent events
As you may or may not have noticed, I have decided to join Lovia for the time being, as I feel I quite enjoy writing in English -it vastly improves my vocab and general language skills, so yeah...- and I also miss the great, chaotic user base of the combined compendium of wiki states, whatever that means. I enjoyed Libertas to a certain extent, Llamada massively, the Harvian Islands also as it was my own project, but most of all I enjoyed Lovia, so here I am! I suddenly remembered my old password as well, so I have decided to log in once more on this account to confirm that I am indeed Cadaro, and not some silly poseur. I want to dissociate my name from my internet identity however, not for weird reasons, but just because I like to control how many people know who I am and what I do, so I have chosen to continue as Cadaro.

I also want to apologize to -Sunkist-. Some shit went down in the chat and I insulted -Sunkist- behind his back because I felt personally attacked by the subject of the discussion and -Sunkist-'s opinion on those matters. I am not apologizing for who I am, nor am I apologizing because I feel that my response was unjustified, but I am a firm believer in pacifism and peaceful, open dialogue, so I want to say sorry to -Sunkist- for talking behind his back. I hope you accept my apologies, and if you want to talk about it, PM me and we'll arrange a time to chat about it. If not, that's fine by me too.

Anyhow, how you'll doing happy muddafuckers! :)

SjorskingmaWikistad (talk) 15:59, May 27, 2013 (UTC)

One of those times again
Hey everyone it's one of those times again in which lovian politics hyper-actively merges and disbands. Me and Horton were thinking about another possible merger or creation of a new Party. It would of course be open to any leftist party which wants in. If enough people do it were in and will be able to create a new force in Lovian Politics! It will be promoted through people like you, grassroots activism and unions alike. We will support social liberalism to social democracy, environmentalism and progressive ideals! Come and post your party! Marcus/Michael Villanova 19:34, May 27, 2013 (UTC)
 * Labour
 * Horton's SCP wing

Let's just undo the creation of the SCP and call it that. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 19:46, May 27, 2013 (UTC)

Tbh that's what i wanted too but if others join along then sure we'll do it. Marcus/Michael Villanova 19:48, May 27, 2013 (UTC)

Well the SCP already happened so it's best to leave it at that. BTW we should start drawing u a few logos. HORTON11 : •  19:51, May 27, 2013 (UTC)

We could simply revert it to the state it was before the secession of like 14 MOTCs to it, I mean. The main conflict I see is the new Labour Deputy Leader, but Abrahams could resign for other reasons. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 19:58, May 27, 2013 (UTC)

When would this start Frijoles333 / Marcel Cebara (talk) 20:08, May 27, 2013 (UTC)

It's better not to change history. Don't know yet when it would start, though I would be willing to join now if it's agreed to. HORTON11 : •  20:09, May 27, 2013 (UTC)

Idk, it is better not to change history you know for practical reasons. Inouye could stay leader until the election and  fail to get re--elected but if this new party is made (which will need other parties) he could of course just join along in the leadership. Marcus/Michael Villanova 20:15, May 27, 2013 (UTC)

Another proposal, what do you guys think? HORTON11 : •  20:19, May 27, 2013 (UTC)

I like the second one more Frijoles333 / Marcel Cebara (talk) 20:20, May 27, 2013 (UTC)

Thanks! I also like the Lovian SDP logo and the PES one too (I have a preference for suared modern logos). HORTON11 : •  20:26, May 27, 2013 (UTC)


 * A couple more I found were nice, simple but nice:  .  HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 20:38, May 27, 2013 (UTC)
 * ehhh i like the more new-er logos these were oldish. The PES logo is just the Progressive Democrats of course that is a good logo too maybe a reboot of that? Marcus/Michael Villanova 20:41, May 27, 2013 (UTC
 * Any takers? :L Marcus/Michael Villanova 22:35, May 28, 2013 (UTC)
 * I only really want Horton and maybe Cadaro to take the offer up so that Labour can be a much more relevant party again. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 00:06, May 29, 2013 (UTC)

Bank Acquisition
The National Bank of Lovia would like to acquire the following inactive banking corporations. Joining these banks into the National Bank of Lovia will give rise to a more efficent and quicker banking atmosphere for users in Lovia.
 * NBL
 * Aventis National Bank
 * Bank of Noble City
 * First National Bank
 * Pacific Bank and Insurance
 * Sofasi Diamond Bank
 * The Exchange Bank

Chairman of the National Bank of Lovia


 * Cynthiana Miller 

-Sunkist- (talk) 01:56, May 28, 2013 (UTC)

I thought the National Bank was only supposed to print and regulate Lovia's currency, and not to interact with the commercial banks? 77topaz (talk) 04:50, May 28, 2013 (UTC)

Well, the National Bank of Lovia is different than the National Reserve. -Sunkist- (talk) 04:56, May 28, 2013 (UTC)

This bank doesn't look to be owned by the government. Why, then, is it called "the" National Bank, and why would these banks be mergered into it? 77topaz (talk) 05:03, May 28, 2013 (UTC)

Because just like the Bank of America, it just a name. The banks are inactive, so why not put them under an active bank? ---Sunkist- (talk) 05:10, May 28, 2013 (UTC)

I agree we should do something with these inactive banks. But they shouldn't all merge into one big bank, especially not a National one :) --O u WTBsjrief-mich 05:17, May 28, 2013 (UTC)

I don't see a reason why not too. -Sunkist- (talk) 05:19, May 28, 2013 (UTC)

We should do something, but a super-bank is not the way to go, we don't need a monopoly. And Sunkist, a couple of the banks on the list have been defunct for over 50 years (NC Bank and Exchange Bank). HORTON11 : •  05:48, May 28, 2013 (UTC)

Alright, well if you don't want a super bank, can I at least try and work in making like two or three major banking corporations? I'll work on each page. -Sunkist- (talk) 06:16, May 28, 2013 (UTC)
 * I'd say: leave out the two defunct banks and try to merge them into some already existing active banks. Alternatively, merge them into two new banks. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 16:24, May 28, 2013 (UTC)
 * I would like to keep FNB independent, and Aventis, as our nation's largest bank, should also be independent. HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 16:45, May 28, 2013 (UTC)
 * Well, if you go look around at the avaliable spaces, they are all occupied with inactive banks, and a town in Lovia should not have three banks. And why did you just make a new bank when you already have plenty? -Sunkist- (talk) 20:43, May 28, 2013 (UTC)

Capitalist monopolies are not our friend. I suggest we stick to a financial market with a myriad of banks, instead of one (or 2-3) big, scary banks. You are always free to excel consumer-wise in such a way that your bank will become the biggest of Lovia. In any case, I'd like to open a bank account at The National Bank of Lovia. Cadaro (talk) 20:03, May 28, 2013 (UTC)


 * Splendid! I'm actually trying to keep a record of citizens of Lovia's money, just send me a PM of how much you want to deposit and I'll work with the interest rate. And if you want a retirement fund, investing into stocks, just tell me! -Sunkist- (talk) 20:40, May 28, 2013 (UTC)

Realism
I have always wondered how realistic we want Lovia to become. I suspect many contributors differ in opinion on this matter (compare the larger-than-life characters of TMV/Magnus and the political realism of Michael). I want to stir up some discussion. How much realism do we want? I.e. what articles/important subjects/concepts still miss, what about the simplified neighborhood maps and the impossibility of housing 200,000+ people in a few salmon-coloured squares. Do we adhere to the QSS principle as seen on the althistory wikia? Heck, how big is Lovia even? Malta? Cyprus? Palau? Cape Verde?

In my humble opinion, too much realism and afterthought destroys the "fun" part of the wiki, but have always resented the blocky town maps, and too some extent the massive amount of companies in such a small nation. I even wrote a "book" on it, trying to explain some of it in a realistic way. What about you guys? Cadaro (talk) 21:53, May 28, 2013 (UTC)

Well, we've slowly been splitting user-matters (out of character) and character-matters (in character), but that's not even close to being done with Congress, law, the various loose ends in other areas, and such. I like the companies (especially non-chains), but the number of multinational ones is surprising, so we've gotten to explaining it with Lovia's de jure status as a tax haven if we're going by a strict no law = no in character policy. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 23:56, May 28, 2013 (UTC)


 * We definitely need to take another look at realistically displaying maps of areas or at least making it so that 200,000 people can live and work realistically according to the maps. Company wise I completely agree that there are too many big companies that claim they earn billions and that they are the biggest bestest company in Lovia of their type. Its on my to do list of cleaning up the problems in Sylvania of setting a standard. Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 09:18, May 29, 2013 (UTC)

I suggest we look at four things:
 * 1) The lay-out of the neigborhood maps and their future. I wouldn't mind turning them into actual images with a tad more realism, while retaining the original lay-out. We could even keep the original neigborhood maps on the respective article with a mention that it is a simplified version, or maybe create a master page with the neighborhood maps to allow people to crowdsource alterations to the neigborhood maps, which can be implemented in the map images later on.
 * 2) The economy of Lovia. What misses? Should we clean up and merge/rewrite articles? Or is the current state of the economy okay. -Sunkist- took some steps in the right direction with an economic forum and one single bank, which is much more realistical for a country with 200,000 inhabitants.
 * 3) The history of Lovia. It needs some clean-up, as many articles contradict other articles. Also, it would be nice to have a canonical history which we can reference to.
 * 4) How we handle content. Does Quod Scripsi Scripsi appyly? What about the really weird, surreal stuff. Is there any inferior content written by users who weren't around for very long, which can be rewritten/deleted? Should we even delete content, however contradicting it may seem to the plans of the current generation of contributors?

Cadaro (talk) 13:58, May 29, 2013 (UTC)


 * 1) Maybe images should be used to make maps similar to the ones we use in Britain like the ordinance survey maps but under some different name for a Lovian version of these maps. We should keep the simplified versions to make it easy to see ownership and changes like that.
 * 2) I'm currently making an economy system, it gives a certain amount of supply and demand and will simulate things roughly so that we can get a better idea of what's going on as well as allowing us to point out to users when they are being unrealistic. And on banks, there can be many banks throughout Lovia, there can be twenty or there can be one, but people must understand that twenty banks will mean a financial sector divided between twenty, not times by twenty.
 * 3) We've done quite well with a rough outline for the history of Lovia. I'm planning to go back to it soon and help finish the rough outline so that people can start working on the final details.
 * 4) We should clean up content and ask for a certain amount of quality, quality articles written by users gone should be kept, adopted and preserved unless something is really wrong with them. Low quality articles that were written by users gone are up for either adoption and improvement or deletion.

These are my opinions of course but this is how I believe it should work. Hoffmann Kunarian TALK 14:17, May 29, 2013 (UTC)

Doniaville
Donia thinks we should rename Train Village to Doniaville. Sounds good to me. But anyway, he does, and Train Village doesn't sound very good so let's rename it to Doniaville! Happy65   Talk CNP   15:38, May 29, 2013 (UTC)


 * Yes, yes, yes! A thousend times yes. The Clan needs it. Lovia needs it. By all the gods and goddesses and all the powers invested in me, by the, by their divine judgement, so shall it be. Doniaville it shall be. Splendid! Exquisite! Glorious! The glorious First Consul of Rome (talk) 15:42, May 29, 2013 (UTC)


 * This is a joke for all of you that didn't know.  Happy65   Talk CNP  LogoCNP.png 15:53, May 29, 2013 (UTC)
 * So funny... *sniff* I forgot to laugh... The glorious First Consul of Rome (talk) 15:55, May 29, 2013 (UTC)


 * I'd support that Royale guy for king though, but you shouldn't really do it on your sockpuppet account.  He'd be pretty cool for the role.  Happy65   Talk CNP  LogoCNP.png 17:30, May 29, 2013 (UTC)
 * It's good to at least keep the throne within the family. BastardRoyale (talk) 12:43, May 30, 2013 (UTC)

Vote IGP for Train Village


Vote Ygo August Donia, for the IGP as mayor of Train Village tomorrow. Do so, and I will bring you peace, order, stability and a swift name change to rid us of that awful, sad, depressigly uninspired name "Train Village". A vote for Donia and the IGP is a vote for a new, vibrant and clean village, a community strong and flexible, safe and secure and well-prepared for the future. A vote for Donia and the IGP, in short, is a vote well-spent. The glorious First Consul of Rome (talk) 17:06, May 29, 2013 (UTC)

Huh? I thought you were trying to join the GP with Dalia Donia? :P 77topaz (talk) 20:28, May 29, 2013 (UTC)

TMV is a complex man. Hoffmann Kunarian TALK 20:46, May 29, 2013 (UTC)


 * Dalia is gonna be rebellious and join the Green Party in spite of her brother's right-wing aspirations. Maybe it's some leftover teen spirit, maybe it's an early midlife crisis or she wants to break free from her mainstream and bourgeois lifestyle? Meanwhile, Ygo's still the old war veteran, the rough clanlord, the robust pater familias. She chooses flowers and green, he chooses iron. Time for a new adventure. The glorious First Consul of Rome (talk) 20:50, May 29, 2013 (UTC)
 * Idk one day I just want the real user. Hes TMV hes DOnia he maybe Bastard Royale (i think he is) he maybe Drabo (idk about that one) hes a commie no hes a facist no hes an envrionmentalist. Idk man I jsut wanna know. Marcus/Michael Villanova 20:51, May 29, 2013 (UTC)
 * Come on chat now and I will tell you all you want to know. The glorious First Consul of Rome (talk) 20:52, May 29, 2013 (UTC)

Train Village
Remember that all citizens, regardless of what state they live in, can vote with a support vote in the Train Village local elections. If you are a resident of Sylvania, you have a minor vote too.

Vote Labour for growth and devolution in Train Village Frijoles333 / Marcel Cebara (talk) 07:49, May 30, 2013 (UTC)

Lovian Times Polling 30-31 May
Elections
 * 30-31 May 2013 - If a Federal Election happened tomorrow who would you give a major vote to?
 * 8 - Conservative Christian Party of Lovia
 * 2 - Social Christian Party
 * 2 - Social Liberal Party
 * 4 - Green Party
 * 3 - Conservative Nationalist Party
 * 3 - Labour Party
 * 2 - Other


 * 30-31 May 2013 - If a Federal Election happened tomorrow who would you give a minor vote to?
 * 6 - Conservative Christian Party of Lovia
 * 1 - Social Christian Party
 * 2 - Social Liberal Party
 * 6 - Green Party
 * 5 - Conservative Nationalist Party
 * 2 - Labour Party
 * 1 - Other


 * 30-31 May 2013 - If a Federal Election happened tomorrow who would you give a support vote to?
 * 2 - Conservative Christian Party of Lovia
 * 4 - Social Christian Party
 * 3 - Social Liberal Party
 * 2 - Green Party
 * 5 - Conservative Nationalist Party
 * 1 - Labour Party
 * 6 - Other

Approval
 * 30-31 May 2013 - Do you approve or disapprove of the Government's record to date?
 * 12 - Approve
 * 7 - Disapprove
 * 2 - Don't Know

Flavour Polling
 * 30-31 May 2013 - Do you think IGP should be allowed to resume it's activities as a party?
 * 14 - Yes
 * 5 - No
 * 1 - Don't Know


 * 30-31 May 2013 - If Local Elections in Charleston happened tomorrow who would you vote for?
 * 9 - Independent (Charles Bennett)
 * 2 - Social Christian Party
 * 5 - Labour Party
 * 5 - Other

Comments
Comments open up again, weekly polling back on. Flavour polling added due to interesting recent events, Charleston polling uses what I think are the three major forces in Charleston. Hoffmann Kunarian TALK 09:38, May 30, 2013 (UTC)

I personally think the major vote, minor vote, support vote system in these pollings should simply be changed to selecting your favorite, second favorite, and third favorite party to avoid voting for the same party, which is possible for virtually every party for actual Lovian citizens. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 19:51, May 30, 2013 (UTC)
 * I don't follow... You can't vote twice for one party, can you? I mean, I can't give one party both my major vote and my minor vote. Imho you are talking semantics, and it would be just a meaningless name change. Cadaro (talk) 19:59, May 30, 2013 (UTC)
 * You can vote for the same party twice, but not the same candidate. Time was making a suggestion for future polling in the pub. --Quarantine Zone (talk) 21:45, May 30, 2013 (UTC)
 * It's implied that you can't, but since elections are based on users, not parties, it should be changed to what I suggested. The current system (in this polling only, I'm talking about) allows you to give one party both your major and minor vote, which I want to change. So not meaningless. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 22:04, May 30, 2013 (UTC)

Polls close at 12 o clock GMT. Hoffmann Kunarian TALK 09:12, May 31, 2013 (UTC)
 * Polls closed (just a little late). Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 11:30, May 31, 2013 (UTC)


 * Anyway, I think you should change: 1. major vote to first choice party. 2. minor vote to second choice party. and 3. support vote to third choice party. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 11:03, May 31, 2013 (UTC)
 * I'm going to stick with this polling because it's a little inaccurate (which all polling is) but it gives a general idea of the mood at the moment. Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 11:30, May 31, 2013 (UTC)
 * Maybe I'll make my own polling. :P —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 20:13, May 31, 2013 (UTC)
 * Hey I think that's a great idea! :D Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 21:22, May 31, 2013 (UTC)

Vote SCP
Vote SCP in Train Village!

Reserved Section. To be added to.  Happy65   Talk CNP   20:04, May 30, 2013 (UTC)

Such a convincing argument :P The glorious First Consul of Rome (talk) 20:07, May 30, 2013 (UTC)


 * "Reserved section. To be added to."
 * - Happy65, 2013

And that's why I didn't vote SCP. Cadaro (talk) 23:26, May 30, 2013 (UTC)


 * Lol, it's the same thing on their policies. :P Happy and Horton, PLEASE disband SCP and return to your old parties. :'( —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 00:27, May 31, 2013 (UTC)
 * Lol let em be. Labour is sinking anyway. CNP doesn't need Happy and it fits our wacky political landscape its fine. Marcus/Michael Villanova 00:52, May 31, 2013 (UTC)


 * I know we're in such a terrrible position right now, but I've tried discussing policies with Horton, but he never seems to be online these days when I am.  Happy65   Talk CNP  LogoCNP.png 06:39, May 31, 2013 (UTC)
 * Just put down some policies on the talk page, leave Horton a message and tell him to look and them and tell you what he agrees with. You're not doing terrible you're just not doing much. Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 09:14, May 31, 2013 (UTC)
 * Personally, I think that they should simply join CCPL. As far as I can tell, the party is just slightly more progressive than CCPL. They're also fairly similar to MCP except that SCP Christian and a little more conservative. --Quarantine Zone (talk) 20:30, May 31, 2013 (UTC)

A 2013 Political Scale


In mid-2012, (right around this time of year actually), a few different political scales were made for the parties of that year. Such as the one displayed. For this year, if someone is up for making one, another political scale could be made with a new addition preferably. The marker that is used for each party could be a color that represents one's environmental position. --Quarantine Zone (talk) 22:01, May 30, 2013 (UTC)
 * I have no fucking clue where my party would be actually. That is one of the drawbacks of an "open ideology". I guess a bit off-set to the left. Also, midway between authoritarian and libertian. Cadaro (talk) 23:29, May 30, 2013 (UTC)
 * off the charts -Donia
 * No, not really. It would appear in the upper left quadrant. Reboot would probably be the farthest upper left quadrant of any existing party. Labour would be quite close to SDU as well. As party of CDP, I would be lower right quadrant. --Quarantine Zone (talk)
 * Authoritarian-Libertarian is this graph refers to social issues and political/individual (not economic) freedoms, so they'd be lower left, not upper left, and CDP would be upper right, not lower right. :P —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 03:16, June 1, 2013 (UTC)
 * Actually, this is a little hard to decide. Reboot supports government interference in terms of the country's land, but I'm not sure if that's more economic or social. Maybe we should stop focusing on graphing this stuff. :P —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 03:18, June 1, 2013 (UTC)
 * But CDP is much more libertarian than authoritarian. CDP supports small government (minimal government programs, little economic control, minimal censoring [with exception to pornography], etc.) --Quarantine Zone (talk) 21:01, June 5, 2013 (UTC)
 * That's the left-right part of the graph. :P —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 21:49, June 5, 2013 (UTC)

Newhaven Tribune Political Polling 1-2 June 2013
I decided to try merging all of the polls into just "what's your favorite party?" basically. I'll see what happens. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 03:35, June 1, 2013 (UTC) Poll - 1-2 June 2013 - If a Federal Election happened tomorrow who would you vote for?
 * Conservative Christian Party of Lovia - 8 - 30%
 * Social Christian Party - 2 - 8%
 * Social Liberal Party - 3 - 11%
 * Green Party - 3 - 13%
 * Conservative Nationalist Party - 5 - 19%
 * Positive Lovia - 0 - 1%
 * Labour Party 3 - 12%
 * Christian Democratic Party 1 - 5%
 * Other - 0 - 1%

Please vote, there are still only seven now that ten hours have elapsed since the most recent voter voted. :o —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 23:28, June 1, 2013 (UTC)

Hmm, GP needs more votes. Come on people! Vote Green! Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 05:37, June 2, 2013 (UTC)

No, don't vote Green, vote SCP! 4kant,6FRÅGOR??? 07:11, June 2, 2013 (UTC)


 * You should switch back to CNP, 4kant. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 11:57, June 2, 2013 (UTC)

Also -- what happened to all the CCPL voters? :O —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 11:58, June 2, 2013 (UTC)

I know for a fact no way should we  be in second with three votes :P Marcus/Michael Villanova 12:07, June 2, 2013 (UTC)

Why are there so many different polls all asking similar questions? Frijoles333 / Marcel Cebara (talk) 19:37, June 2, 2013 (UTC)

IDK no offence to Time, I like his papers and political input, but I think Kun's model for polling is the best. I wouldn't mind him doing the same but I think it'd get a bit repetitive. Marcus/Michael Villanova 19:41, June 2, 2013 (UTC)

Lol, CCPL just went from 2 to 8 in six hours. Anyway, I like my model for polling because it's more like other countries' polling, it doesn't allow you to vote for the same party in multiple polls, and in Kunarian's model, major, minor, and supports in the poll appear to be equal in value once compiled. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 21:54, June 2, 2013 (UTC)

Why does labour have 12% yet GP with 13%? And SLP with 11? Marcus/Michael Villanova 21:12, June 5, 2013 (UTC)

So that they wouldn't all have the same percentage on a graph. GP also should have had four votes due to Donia. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 21:49, June 5, 2013 (UTC)

LT polling
REMEMBER TO READ CAREFULLY, CLICK AGREE TO SUPPORT THE IMPLEMENTATION OF THE RULE IN LOCAL ELECTIONS, CLICK DISAGREE TO OPPOSE THE IMPLEMENTATION OF THE RULE IN LOCAL ELECTIONS:


 * Voters in the Local Elections in Sylvania are limited to vote for any party only once in the same way that they may vote for any candidate only once, this rule was installed to stop parties voting only within their parties, critics from the labour party say that this is an affront to democracy, do you agree that this rule is good for democracy?
 * 13 - Agree
 * 2 - In the middle
 * 5 - Disagree
 * 0 - Don't know

I like it better, it sets the scene of why this poll is held. Hoffmann Kunarian TALK 19:28, June 2, 2013 (UTC)

Remember that this rule has also been put in place to ensure that votes for individuals who are supported by multiple people on matter of conviction do not have their vote share eroded deliberately by votes that are made only within party groups. Also it stops the tradition of people fielding a load of candidates just to spread their votes amongst their party, most of whom normally end up inactive like in this congress. I hope you vote to Agree. Hoffmann Kunarian TALK 19:36, June 2, 2013 (UTC)

(my summed up argument as well) Remember that this rule, while in good spirit, takes away an individual's right for first choice if that other candidate is of the same political party. While I don't like how are current system does have inactivity, I don't believe that this rule actually would change this, rather force you to vote for someone who is ideologically near you (as anyone would do) but inactive or not as active. Maybe you do have inactive people in your party, but I hope you take it among yourselfs to weed it out and put country first, I hope you trust in the other people running for office behind that. I hope you vote no. Marcus/Michael Villanova 19:39, June 2, 2013 (UTC)

Can we agree to leave the "arguments" at this :P Marcus/Michael Villanova 19:51, June 2, 2013 (UTC)

Agreed with one addition, seeming as you're hoping I'd like to hope too. Hoffmann Kunarian TALK 19:56, June 2, 2013 (UTC)

Actually did make me laugh if you can believe that xD I hope you hope that you'll hope some more that I agree to that. Marcus/Michael Villanova 20:07, June 2, 2013 (UTC)

OWTB's view
In my opinion, we hardly have a choice, as there are less votes to be brought out and less votable options. But then again, it is perfectly well allowed to just stand as an independent during the local elections, easily circumventing this. So, in short: in theory a nice solution, in reality it is useless :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 03:15, June 3, 2013 (UTC)
 * True, Time pointed this out and so has Marcus but I think that this is a good starting place and a good simple rule to build upon. Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 10:06, June 3, 2013 (UTC)
 * No, to me it looks like redundancy. Pretty sure it ain't gonna have any effects :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 12:53, June 3, 2013 (UTC)
 * We have to start experimenting somewhere, and it's especially good in situations like these where we can just experiment rather than just hypothesise. Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 17:48, June 3, 2013 (UTC)
 * Maybe it can be boiled down to this, and I don't want to misquote you. But your solution would be through the changing the voting aspects and to that you think there is a strong "Party alligence" and that in turn it will solve it. I take the path of not changing the voting, yet not allowing those who are inactive to run and if they do run, by the mid-way point if they aren't active we hold mid-terms for there seats? Yes/no? Marcus/Michael Villanova 20:28, June 3, 2013 (UTC)

Conclusion
Clearly a majority (65%) think it's a good rule and good for democracy, a minority (25%) think it's bad for democracy and a few (10%) think something inbetween. Hoffmann Kunarian TALK 10:06, June 3, 2013 (UTC)

Blackburn U
Sorry to ask what is probably a silly question, but I was thinking of making some contributions to Blackburn University, including adding some new buildings in Transcity and adding more detail to the parts about campuses and courses. I know it's silly for me to ask, but thought I should as its not one of my projects Frijoles333 / Marcel Cebara (talk) 19:16, June 3, 2013 (UTC)
 * Add detail to courses would be something I think most people would be fine with (with a little overseering to make sure things are done properly), however it doesn't need any new buildings. Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 19:20, June 3, 2013 (UTC)

Ok I'll do that Frijoles333 / Marcel Cebara (talk) 19:22, June 3, 2013 (UTC)

The unconquerable soul of Donia
I stand here before you, a man at the height of his abilities. A man strong, a man experienced. Unbowed, unbroken, an unconquerable soul in a durable body. Lovia has endured long too, much longer then I have lived. Lovia may not be an old nation compared to some others, but it’s history is rich and it’s culture all the richer. There is no man alive on this planet, on the face of this earth, who appreciates this fact more than I do. Our history may not be long, but we packed a million years in just one hundred and fifty years of existence. Nothing, nobody, can ever take that away from us.

But as I stand before you, my family Lovians, I see a nation broken, a nation divided. A nation still recovering from the horrors of the Civil War. A war that was no one’s fault, but a fault of us all and a burden for us all to carry. You do not have to carry it alone, you do not have to suffer in silence. Step out of the shades of your mundane existence, come together and join hands. Papa Donia is here, your lord and saviour. Let us come together and be as one. Let us walk together in the right direction, the only direction: forward. Forward towards a brighter and better future. For Lovia, the Lovian people, and for humanity itself. Walk with me in fields of blue, red and yellow, lay with my in green pastures and walk with me in a golden sunlit beach. History is not written in the stars, it’s written by you! By me, by my infant son, by my baby niece. By the man in the street, his wife, his lover. By the old lady at the bookstore who is secretly a salsa dancer and battles crime in her free time. By the mentally handicapped man on the Hurbanovan farm who was falsely accused of kidnapping the guinea pig he was actually attempting to save. We are all writing the history of Lovia, together. Come with me, and write! Write, by living! Live, by writing.

 Make me your King and you will have a dreamer, with no political power whatsoever. A dreamer who will take your hand and guide you along in his dreams, take you with him on many a adventure. For I am the captain of my fate, and the master of my soul. Let us master our fates and captain our souls together. Under Ygo the First, there will be a kingdom that reigns a thousand years. Or, just a month, if you will have it so. It is your call, your decision. You, the people of Lovia!

 <p class="MsoNoSpacing">I cannot promise heaps of gold, nor can I promise there will be no controversies. I cannot promise there will be no wild sex parties in the palace garden and pool, and that there will be no illegal goat races in the streets of Oceana. There may be a fight or two, some drunken brawls and a politically motivated assassination attempt on the mascot of a sports team I hate. A feminist or two, or three, or five, might find themselves locked up in my dungeons, and I cannot promise there will be no drunken rants every once in a while. But I can promise you this: there will be gold, and there will be adventure, and there will be laughter.

<p class="MsoNoSpacing">We will be merry and we will be happy, Lovians! Naranja! May the Gods and Science and all that is good and holy and unholy and immoral and sexy and hilarious be with you! Let us move on to a new Lovia. Bless Lovia, bless the Lovian people, and bless the healing power of milk, alcoholic beverages, intellectual debate and horseback riding!

<p class="MsoNoSpacing">Kind regards,

<p class="MsoNoSpacing">Your king, The glorious First Consul of Rome (talk) 21:57, June 3, 2013 (UTC)

So, Donia's Lovia is going to be tolerant and groovy. I like it. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 02:15, June 5, 2013 (UTC)


 * That sums it up pretty well, TM. The general idea was a tolerant and groovy Lovia. Some crazy shit will still happen every now and then, there may be some controversy and I won't be able to always give everyone exactly what they desire. But neither was Dimitri, back when he still bothered to visit the site every so often: he was blantantly anti-religious, militantly atheist, obsessed with the USA and formed his own leftist cliques that dealt with opposing views in ways that were not always as democratic as they could have and should have been. I will not make such mistakes, as unlike him I am capable of not politicalizing the position of King (politics never interested me that much, honestly), nor am I such an idealist. I'm more laidback, not a sucker for the rules, instead of Dimitri who I suspect hugged the Constitution late at night, and who may or may not have danced around his room with it wearing a wedding dress. In any case, all joking aside, they were good days. I found the presence of a king rather enjoyable, as it was an important part of Lovian society. When we lost this part, with our King's departure, I think we lost a little piece of the old Lovia, the Lovia that we had, and that I loved. So at the fear of sounding too nostalgic, I would like to revive those days, if only just a bit. Now don't get me wrong, I am no Dimitri I, nor an Arthur I, II & III nor a Lucy or a Lucas. I would be a different type of King. But it's a position I would gladly take and furfill to the best of my abilities. It would be new and interesting, yes, but also not that new, as we had a King before. At present, however, we do not. And I find that a bloody shame. So as a king, I'd get involved with debates, play an advisory role perhaps, give regular speeches in the Speaker's Corner on cultural phenomenon and the like, and give interviews for the country's major news stations and papers. I'd write a book or two, or three. And furthmore, retreat from all political positions I may or may not hold, and fully focus on the Lovian Throne. The glorious First Consul of Rome (talk) 07:47, June 5, 2013 (UTC)

Lovian Times Polling 7-8 June
Elections
 * 7-8 June 2013 - If a Federal Election happened tomorrow who would you give a major vote to?
 * 3 - Conservative Christian Party of Lovia
 * 1 - Social Christian Party
 * 1 - Social Liberal Party
 * 2 - Green Party
 * 2 - Conservative Nationalist Party
 * 3 - Labour Party
 * 1 - Other


 * 7-8 June 2013 - If a Federal Election happened tomorrow who would you give a minor vote to?
 * 1 - Conservative Christian Party of Lovia
 * 0 - Social Christian Party
 * 0 - Social Liberal Party
 * 4 - Green Party
 * 4 - Conservative Nationalist Party
 * 2 - Labour Party
 * 1 - Other


 * 7-8 June 2013 - If a Federal Election happened tomorrow who would you give a support vote to?
 * 0 - Conservative Christian Party of Lovia
 * 1 - Social Christian Party
 * 1 - Social Liberal Party
 * 1 - Green Party
 * 3 - Conservative Nationalist Party
 * 2 - Labour Party
 * 3 - Other

Approval
 * 7-8 June 2013 - Do you approve or disapprove of the Government's record to date?
 * 4 - Approve
 * 5 - Disapprove
 * 4 - Don't Know

Flavour Polling
 * 7-8 June 2013 - Do you support the CNP and Labour coalition in Train Village?
 * 7 - Yes
 * 4 - No
 * 2 - Don't Know

Comments
Comments open! Hoffmann Kunarian TALK 15:56, June 7, 2013 (UTC)

Glad to see the polls are becoming a regular thing :) Frijoles333 / Marcel Cebara (talk) 16:05, June 7, 2013 (UTC)

Yes, it's nice. I always vote the same though :P 4kant,6FRÅGOR??? 17:02, June 7, 2013 (UTC)
 * So do most people in real life when it comes to these things however it's the small things that make you want to move your support vote or maybe even completely change your major vote and those change the polls. Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 17:05, June 7, 2013 (UTC)

Could you please, please, please add my party to the polling next time, or split up "other" into the parties that category represents? Cadaro (talk) 22:51, June 7, 2013 (UTC)


 * Yeah maybe like "Other leftist" "Other Rightists"? Marcus/Michael Villanova 23:19, June 7, 2013 (UTC)

Announcement from Mäöres
We've just opened our election page. You can now run for elections if you are a Mäöreser citizen. If you are not yet a citizen, but you do want to vote, then you are advised to make 25 edits to your user page and wait four days. Then you will get your citizen form :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 10:08, June 8, 2013 (UTC)

Archive
Perhaps it's time to archive The Pub again :P 4kant,6FRÅGOR??? 14:50, June 9, 2013 (UTC)


 * Maybe yes but when? Is there a rule when user pages, forum pages or whatever pages needs to be archived? I ask this because I have on my user talk page around 45 messages and I want to clean up this mess there. Wabba The I (talk) 15:59, June 9, 2013 (UTC)
 * As far as I know, there is absolutely no rule at all for that. It's done when someone decides to do it, which can be when there are 40 or 400 sections. Just before the last time The Pub was archived I pointed out that there almost was enough stuff to archive it twice :P 4kant,6FRÅGOR??? 16:07, June 9, 2013 (UTC)

Clymene Kickstart
Ok everybody, after looking through the various coments and complaints, I think it's time to finally do something more for Clymene. As there is so much I would like to do (and much more I've probably overlooked), I'd like to get everyone interested in helping the state involved in this. On the agenda would be a variety of items/issues.


 * 1) Marcus has repeatedly criticized me for not implementing a state council and it's time to fix that. As full on elections may not be viable, I would like to get everyone willing to participate in state affairs to help form a state council. Prety much like a forum for discussing ideas and implementing plans.
 * 2) Other ideas I have are to work on the state plan ideas and to create a sort of network of localized community centers and libraries to encourage community projects and more interest in municial-level affairs.
 * 3) HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 16:12, June 10, 2013 (UTC)

For the state council, just make an RP one like is done in the other four states. No OOC elections needed. :P —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 18:17, June 10, 2013 (UTC)

State Reform
- Could you please vote "pro" on the newest proposal for devolution? :) --O u WTBsjrief-mich 13:57, June 10, 2013 (UTC)

Political Scale again


So here is a suggestion for a new scale. I put CDP in as an example. The Right and Left are referring to economic/fiscal, and the progressive and conservative are referring to social policies. --Quarantine Zone (talk) 19:32, June 10, 2013 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure about the colours. Red can now mean either very, very green or very much anti-green. Also, I consider yellow to be less green than green itself :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 08:02, June 11, 2013 (UTC)
 * I agree that the "double meaning" of red is problematic. :P 77topaz (talk) 08:10, June 11, 2013 (UTC)
 * So do I. And it doesn't exactly make sense that red can be greener than green anyway :P 4kant,6FRÅGOR??? 13:29, June 11, 2013 (UTC)
 * I don't get this at all. Just use a simple line from Left being extremely environmental, center being middle, right being none Marcus/Michael Villanova 14:24, June 11, 2013 (UTC)
 * That's not how it works. Although environmentalism and leftist theory usually go hand in hand (at least nowadays), it isn't actually related. It's a gross oversimplification to say: left = green. Another way of saying this is (and keep in mind, this is again a simplification): Left and right refers to economical matters, conservative and progressive to ethical/non-economical matters. As a matter of fact, progressive -not leftism- is usually closely tied to environmentalism, but still progressive =/= environmentalist per se. It is also worth knowing that these political diagrams are very widely criticized for being too simple to catch something complex like politics. It is kind of the same as the Kinsey scale and derived scales on sexuality: lots of criticism that they are too simple and twodimensional to capture something multidimensional like sexuality. This goes for politics and politcology too. Socialists, especially in the 19th and beginning of the 20th century didn't care for the environment much, and they adopted an anti-industrial attitude due to machines replacing and destroying labor, not because they gave a fuck about, say, pollution. Nowadays, it is common practice to adopt an environmentalist image and worldview as a left(-leaning) politician, because the two concepts fit each other perfectly. This sort of led to the situation where progressives and environmentalists became mutually interchangeable. In Europe, where liberal usually refers to right-wing political parties and politicians, the liberals actually adopted an "economy first" attitude which led neo-liberalism and the neglect of environmental values. In the Netherlands, the labor party is now led by a former Green Peace activist, who almost became president, but even his dedication to the green cause moved to the background because the labor party (which is a social-democrat, so leftist party) has been focusing on health care issues a lot the last year or so. The green-pacifist-leftist-whatever party (GroenLinks, which is actually a bundle of several former small radical left-wing political parties like the Pacifist party and the like) has been the major force in green politics in Holland, but they seem to focus more on pacifist values -which they fucked up by supporting the Afghan war- and internal leadership problems -which caused a drop of like 70% in support for the party. The Socialist Party of the Netherlands hasn't even said like a single word about environmentalism in the media. They have some viewpoints on it, but they have a laborers first policy where everything < laborers rights. Moral of the story: left =/= environmentalism per se, but probably is. Sorry, I just wanted to write a little on politics, and teach you guys something in the process. /rant Cadaro (talk) 22:07, June 13, 2013 (UTC)
 * Thank you Cadaro... @Oos,excuse the color scale problems. I'm colorblind... We could do a black fading to white scale. --Quarantine Zone (talk) 01:32, June 14, 2013 (UTC)
 * Although I already knew that, Cadaro I alway enjoy a nice political insight. xD Although I still believe due to the nature of wanting a power government and seeking social change that leftism is more closely attributed to this. I do understand all the issues and aspects about this and sorry to hear your "socialist" party hasn't uttered a word. Understandably maybe, because of the conservative, eurosceptic wave still about. I mean look at the "labour" party of Britain. It too having a labor's first ideology but nothing else including centrist economic and just center-left social values. Again I understand the political science and everything it's just a normal generalization attributed to the situation and the issue. Marcus/Michael Villanova 02:10, June 14, 2013 (UTC)
 * Yeah, the Socialist Party in the Netherlands used to be very small and part of a communist activist setting. It is now a serious, large party. I personally dislike that party for its populist, opportunistic attitudes nowadays. I liked their previous leader Jan Marijnissen very much, but Emile Roemer is just a Ceaesescu lookalike who lacks rhetoric skill. I am a member of the social democrat party, (and an active, congress-going one for that matter, active in the youth organization) the more moderate socialist party of the Netherlands, and I am saddened by the fact that our fraction leader has neglected his green background. Cadaro (talk) 19:54, June 14, 2013 (UTC)

Clymene Today Polling

 * Would you want congress to dissolve right now for new elections to be held?


 * Yes, and elections to take place in July so a new congress can be elected - 6


 * No, I like the current congress, it's active enough and represents me - 4


 * I don't know - 4

Its a sort of vague-ish question I just wanna know though. Please vote! Marcus/Michael Villanova 16:15, June 11, 2013 (UTC)

Yeah I think we need a new congress with less inactive congressmen Frijoles333 / Marcel Cebara (talk) 16:17, June 11, 2013 (UTC)

I still can't decide. On one side, I don't really want to go through elections right now, on the other side, I want SCP to weaken and a more active Congress so we can pass amendments more easily. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 16:40, June 11, 2013 (UTC)

I actually quite enjoy the election period Frijoles333 / Marcel Cebara (talk) 16:41, June 11, 2013 (UTC)

I agree with TM, also, having two nations with elections at the same time could be slightly stressing me :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 16:43, June 11, 2013 (UTC)

Well, I'll leaving the polling out for until today, and act on it. Marcus/Michael Villanova 18:04, June 12, 2013 (UTC)

Although the current congress has several inactive members, we have enough active ones as to not warrant new elections. HORTON11 : •  18:43, June 12, 2013 (UTC)

10,000th Edit Celebration
YES!!! ITS HAPPENING!!! IN JUST A FEW DAY(S) MY 10,000TH EDIT IS COMING. PLEASE HELP ME CELEBRATE IN A HUGE PARTAY AND ENDLESS AMOUNTS OF BOOZE AT THE Pink Flamingo Club !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! YEAH BABY! Marcus/Michael Villanova 16:19, June 11, 2013 (UTC)
 * Hahaha, you need the booze, cause when the moment's there it's gonna be disappointingly boring :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 16:40, June 11, 2013 (UTC)
 * Ah it would actually legitimately be cool to have a drink with some of you guys IRL Cadaro (talk) 19:56, June 14, 2013 (UTC)
 * Well, you say that. :P Personally, I think we might all hate each other, and then the wiki would fall apart. :P --Semyon 19:02, June 19, 2013 (UTC)
 * Not at all; I'm always in for a drink :P Besides, I don't hate any people (with the exception of Dimitri from times to times :P) --O u WTBsjrief-mich 05:00, June 20, 2013 (UTC)
 * I don't hate anyone either really, I disagree with people but having an irish background I find that a bit of drink makes anyone into a friend :L Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 17:19, June 20, 2013 (UTC)
 * Nor do I :P 4kant,6FRÅGOR??? 17:32, June 20, 2013 (UTC)

Another Amendment
We need six more votes here. QZ? Bart? —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 16:44, June 11, 2013 (UTC)
 * I'll make a note on his talk. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 16:46, June 11, 2013 (UTC)

Look how popular we are!
Well not exactly...Using the monthly rankings by Wikia's WAM, I was able to see how popular/frequently used our wiki is. Well...It's okay i guess. It states that among wiki lifestyle wikis in english we rank 97th. Ehhh not too good. Conisdering at one point among all wikis (disregarding language or type) we were 517th, pretty high up, and now at 1436. Which is about a 900 place differental. Either way just some interesting states i wanted to point out :D Marcus/Michael Villanova 21:25, June 11, 2013 (UTC)
 * We rose to 1341 :P Anyway, I think that list is just bollocks. It uses very short time periods to calculate activity. If no one were to edit for, say, five days because of holidays or sumtin, we would drop out completely. Cadaro (talk) 22:35, June 12, 2013 (UTC)
 * And it doesn't include all wikis :( --O u WTBsjrief-mich 08:24, June 13, 2013 (UTC)

More Polling from Clymene Today
Hey everyone! I'm taking the great initiative from Mr. Hoffmann and holding my weekly polling which will be for statewide races. The two most important to me which is Clymene and Seven.


 * If the Clymene state election was held today who would you vote for?
 * J. Abrahams (SCP) - 1
 * M. Villanova (RLP) - 6
 * G. Underhill (GP) - 1
 * I Don't Know/Other - 2


 * If the Seven state election was held today who would you vote for?
 * S. Breyev (Ind.) - 4
 * E. Taiyō (CDP) - 2
 * D. Leskromento (SCP) - 0
 * I Don't Know/Other - 4

Please vote! Marcus/Michael Villanova 21:57, June 12, 2013 (UTC)

Hm, I'm not sure what the chances are that George will actually run this year; he seems almost completely devoted to Brunant at the moment. :P 77topaz (talk) 03:49, June 13, 2013 (UTC)

Well, if you could contact him to get him more active and ask him if he wants his old position. Marcus/Michael Villanova 21:30, June 13, 2013 (UTC)

Someone voted for me...? Can I vote in the Clymene spot even if I don't have residence in Clymene? And for further reference, in Japan names are backwards, so Taiyō no Eisei's last name is Taiyō and his first name is Eisei. --Quarantine Zone (talk) 19:13, June 15, 2013 (UTC)

Actually thats a nice tidbit i learned today never knew that about the names. Yeah, but the poll is over so, i see you added your vote to seven, wait next week for the net batch. And of course you can vote if your into state or out of state, I just want some opinion to be voiced :D Marcus/Michael Villanova 19:20, June 15, 2013 (UTC)

Ok, sounds good :) --Quarantine Zone (talk) 19:21, June 15, 2013 (UTC)

Ahhh no more votes please :D Thanks! Marcus/Michael Villanova 19:33, June 15, 2013 (UTC)

Returning Member
Hi there, all. I used to participate here about two years back, but stopped because of school. I hope to rejoin the land of the living and participate heavily in Lovian politics for at least this summer, and hopefully for longer. Can anybody give me a short summary of what has been going on during my absence? I understand there have been multiple civil conflicts and a bit of a conservative revival, but beyond that I'm not really sure what has happened.

Many thanks,

Matt (talk) 22:13, June 12, 2013 (UTC)

Hey! welcome back, you left around when I came so I have no idea who you are, but I hope we can get acquainted quickly. So for an introduction I'm Lukas Hoffmann of the CNP, an economically liberal party that has a liberal social policy too, we favour civic nationalism and support for the cultures of Lovia from the government. I'm also Governor of Sylvania and have been initiating some radical steps to breathe new life into the State. I hope you can join us for a longer time now, introductions on my side are done. :) And again welcome back! Hoffmann Kunarian TALK 22:34, June 12, 2013 (UTC)

I've checked out your page and I like your policies. Very much so, in fact. I will be considering joining your party in the future. Many thanks for the introduction. Matt (talk) 22:59, June 12, 2013 (UTC)

Hi Matt, I'm Taiyō no Eisei, head of the Christian Democratic Party, Deputy Governor of Seven, and Minister of Health. I really haven't been on here too long, but for a brief recap, Dimi is inactive but still stops by from time to time. A civil war took place with an end result of the downfall of fascism in Lovia. The CPL.nm died out, so communism is almost gone as well (except for a small movement with one member called Reboot). Labour also shrank in size recently due to the new Social Christian Party. All in all, centrism grew a lot. CDP is the second most extreme active party, after Reboot. Many new bills have been passed since your inactivity. You can check those out, and Donia tried to steal the crown too. For a better recap of events from before the Civil War, I'd suggest talking to User:Semyon, User:TimeMaster, User:Ooswesthoesbes, or User:Crystalbeastdeck09. --Quarantine Zone (talk) 00:17, June 13, 2013 (UTC)

Nice to have a new user. :) —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 01:11, June 13, 2013 (UTC)

It's been a long time indeed, welcome back :) --O u WTBsjrief-mich 08:23, June 13, 2013 (UTC)

Lovian Times Polling 12-13 June
Elections
 * 12-13 June 2013 - If a Federal Election happened tomorrow who would you give a major vote to?
 * 1 - Conservative Christian Party of Lovia
 * 1 - Social Christian Party
 * 2 - Social Liberal Party
 * 2 - Green Party
 * 3 - Conservative Nationalist Party
 * 3 - Labour Party
 * 2 - Other


 * 12-13 June 2013 - If a Federal Election happened tomorrow who would you give a minor vote to?
 * 4 - Conservative Christian Party of Lovia
 * 0 - Social Christian Party
 * 0 - Social Liberal Party
 * 2 - Green Party
 * 3 - Conservative Nationalist Party
 * 3 - Labour Party
 * 1 - Other


 * 12-13 June 2013 - If a Federal Election happened tomorrow who would you give a support vote to?
 * 1 - Conservative Christian Party of Lovia
 * 0 - Social Christian Party
 * 0 - Social Liberal Party
 * 2 - Green Party
 * 3 - Conservative Nationalist Party
 * 2 - Labour Party
 * 4 - Other

Approval
 * 12-13 June 2013 - Do you approve or disapprove of the Government's record to date?
 * 8 - Approve
 * 5 - Disapprove
 * 1 - Don't Know

Flavour Polling
 * 12-13 June 2013 - (Regional) In Clymene who would you vote for if a general election was tomorrow?
 * 1 - I live in the Plains area, Reformist and Liberal Party
 * 2 - I live in the Sofasi area, Reformist and Liberal Party
 * 2 - I live in the Adoha area, Reformist and Liberal Party
 * 1 - I live in the Plains area, Social Christian Party
 * 0 - I live in the Sofasi area, Social Christian Party
 * 0 - I live in the Adoha area, Social Christian Party
 * 0 - I live in the Plains area, Green Party
 * 0 - I live in the Sofasi area, Green Party
 * 1 - I live in the Adoha area, Green Party
 * 0 - I live in the Plains area, Other
 * 2 - I live in the Sofasi area, Other
 * 1 - I live in the Adoha area, Other

Comments
Comments open up again. Go go go! Hoffmann Kunarian TALK 22:42, June 12, 2013 (UTC)

I have no houses in Clymene. I'd choose SCP or other if I did though. --Quarantine Zone (talk) 23:54, June 12, 2013 (UTC)

Polls closing in at 10 o clock GMT! Hoffmann Kunarian TALK 20:15, June 13, 2013 (UTC)

Just added my votes, polls still aren't working for me and I didn't have the opportunity to use a different computer. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 21:11, June 13, 2013 (UTC)
 * okay, I understand. Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 06:25, June 14, 2013 (UTC)

The King and the Heretow
<p class="MsoNormal">What this nation needs is dreamers. People with passion in their pants. Who are sexy and who know it. And they are not afraid to show it. Who got it from their mothers, and who’s milkshake brings all the men to the frontyard. Swiftly and in great haste. This is what we need. This is what we require. There will not be a single Lovian unhappy when I am installed as the new king in our nation’s proud and mighty capital. We will sing and dance together in our hands. We will praise the lord. There will be laughter and pleasure and fun.

<p class="MsoNormal">Also we require a Duke. A Heretow so to speak. This function will be needed in Oceana. Oceana is a great state and has a great and rich history. It has so much to offer for investments. It also has a great people and they have this wonderful spirit. And their attitude is surely admirable, as is their dedication to goat-related issues and those are the matters that REALLY issue. I wish to be elected soon, as the King. But if this is not the case there are always elections. Force is not an ideal way to ceaze power. But if all options fail, there is but one option: elections.

<p class="MsoNormal">And the Brigade will not be afraid to reach for this ultimate option. No charges have been placed. I mean, pressed. Therefore we are free. As free as a daffodil, waving gently in the Southern breeze on a chill yet warm and cooled-down summer day’s eve. Free as a sparkling forest fairy in the fullest power of his youth. Let us sing and dance and rejoice in such good tidings that are sure to come. Good times are among us. Let us walk amongst the dreamers. Let us dream.

<p class="MsoNormal">Let us not fight. Democracy is very important. Go, democracy! Go, Oceana! Go Lovia and all it’s beautiful states. This my speech. These are my words. Do not weigh them lightly. For they are spoken in good faith. May the arrive well. May they sit well with you. Sit back for a while. Stare at the screen. Try not to have your draw drop, as it may result in a painful jaw. Let the results sink in. Good night sweet beautiful friends and fellow Lovians and Loviettes! The glorious First Consul of Rome (talk) 22:25, June 14, 2013 (UTC)


 * Nice speech! :) 4kant,6FRÅGOR??? 08:34, June 15, 2013 (UTC)
 * Actually, with the State Law in place, I believe there's nothing blocking the institution of a Heretow :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 08:57, June 15, 2013 (UTC)
 * @4kant,6: Thank you good sir. Your enthusiastic approval is most appreciated.
 * @Oos: Well, I for one would love to see a Heretow in place. But this really should go hand-in-hand with installing an active new King (me!) in Noble City. We'd have an active nobility once more and it would be a great cultural enrichment for our nation. You with me bro? The glorious First Consul of Rome (talk) 09:09, June 15, 2013 (UTC)
 * Why would I risk a certainty of becoming Heretow of my own state by helping you to become king? Of course I'm with you bro! :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 10:09, June 15, 2013 (UTC)

Noble City Rock Festival
So, you may or may not have noticed I have been writing a lot of articles about the Lovian music scene. I also started a label (Warped Records), which hosts a couple of festivals annually. Now here is the deal, I want you guys to decide which artists will play at the upcoming Noble City Rock Festival. It can be every artist, even if not signed to Warped. The name implies that only rock acts are allowed, but this is not true: it can be every artist, every genre, every way of giving gigs. I would also appreciate input on side events at the festival, such as comedy acts, a lounge, et cetera. Thanks a lot in advance! Cadaro (talk) 13:46, June 15, 2013 (UTC)
 * Maybe an Oceana language act? :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 14:06, June 15, 2013 (UTC)
 * Sure! Recommendations? Cadaro (talk) 14:11, June 15, 2013 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I'm in need of creating a page first though :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 14:22, June 15, 2013 (UTC)
 * Un lad fo thu :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 14:34, June 15, 2013 (UTC)

Hyperbola might "fit in" with some of the Warped Records bands at the festival. 77topaz (talk) 02:23, June 16, 2013 (UTC)

:O
Just saw this. --Semyon 16:00, June 15, 2013 (UTC)

Oh god Why?!!?!?! Does someone have his Email!!?!?! Marcus/Michael Villanova 16:03, June 15, 2013 (UTC)

Damn, doesn't he have another account? we need some way of contacting him. Hoffmann Kunarian TALK 16:11, June 15, 2013 (UTC)

Yes, he also has Zackatron, which appears to be unblock. Maybe we should make an enquiry about this? —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 16:17, June 15, 2013 (UTC)

Yes, Send a delegate (Admin) Oos to go question this. Marcus/Michael Villanova 16:30, June 15, 2013 (UTC)

I already did it. :P --Semyon 16:35, June 15, 2013 (UTC)

Ha, if I got banned I could always be 572083 again! bwahahahah! --Quarantine Zone (talk) 19:17, June 15, 2013 (UTC)

I'm guessing he's going on holiday or something and asked Wikia to lock his account. He's done that before. 77topaz (talk) 02:09, June 16, 2013 (UTC)

IWO GAMES BACK ON!!
Ok, everyone. The IWO games are back on! Saturday the 29th June is going to be the opening ceremony date, and will be held for two weeks until Sunday the 14th July. Now what we need is to get people interested in organizing events/setting u schedule and results. I've talked to Granero, who's been really busy but says he'd be glad to organize the football event as proposed earlier.

Now we also need for each participating nation to organize a list of athlestes for the events. I simplified Times list and that would be our official sports, so jst copy the list and add the athlete(s) name(s) to the individual sports and the team to the group events.

I really would like to have this done, to actually say we could achieve something through the IWO. HORTON11 : •  17:20, June 15, 2013 (UTC)
 * Do we only hold the men's games? --O u WTBsjrief-mich 17:35, June 15, 2013 (UTC)
 * Realistically all the development has been on men's sports, so we could focus on that. But we should select a few events to also be women's, like swimming or volleyball. HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 17:38, June 15, 2013 (UTC)
 * As much of the discussion is being held on the IW page in Brunant, we shold move our talk over there as to keep all discussions together. HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 17:41, June 15, 2013 (UTC)

Health Care...for what, like the 5th time I've posted this?
I'm going to post here again for the Healthcare bill. The current status on the bill, for those of you that don't remember, is only life-changing cases will be covered by the government, so all cosmetics or minor injuries will be left to private insurance and people's own wallets. The actual insurance will be through non-profit private insurance companies that will be funded by the government. My question is what percentage of the costs the government should cover, and should it be a flat percentage of coverage or progressive? --Quarantine Zone (talk) 19:43, June 15, 2013 (UTC)
 * The Government shouldn't sponsor unnecessary cosmetic operations, those who have a broad back should carry most of the load (progressive), and if people choose not to have insurance, for religious reasons, that should be possible. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 20:02, June 15, 2013 (UTC)
 * I wont know but you haven't written a bill yet so how can we really comment on it? So far contra though I enjoy the nationalization of health care. Marcus/Michael Villanova 20:42, June 15, 2013 (UTC)

"Minor injuries" should probably just be simplified to first x dollars (thousand? five hundred?) are out of pocket, with the rest being covered by insurance. Whether it's a national system or with a Bismarck multiple private insurance funds system, I don't care too much either way as long as it works. On to the real question: the government shouldn't really be paying a set percentage, it should be an insurance system that the government can contribute to indirectly if it wishes, or just paying the remainder of what's left, or something. I really don't know about health insurance systems. And yes, progressive. I think insurance should be optional but with an equivalent penalty added so that it's technically just government insurance. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 00:09, June 16, 2013 (UTC)

More Clymene Today Polling
Hello everyone! Just some more polling from Clymene Today on the respective races in the northern states. Three things:
 * J. Abrahams is now an independent. He was a SCP member but left and will now run without a Party.
 * We apologize if we confused any Seven citizens when we listed E. Taiyō's name wrong.
 * (OOC) You can vote even if your are not from Clymene or Seven, we encourage it.

Clymene
If the Clymene state election was held today who would you vote for?


 * J. Abrahams (Ind.) - 6


 * M. Villanova (RLP) - 5


 * G. Underhill (GP) - 2


 * I Don't Know/Other - 0

Seven
If the Seven state election was held today who would you vote for?
 * S. Breyev (Ind.) - 6
 * E. Taiyō (CDP) - 2
 * D. Leskromento (SCP) - 0
 * I Don't Know/Other - 5

Comments
It's not E. Taiyō either. It's Taiyō n. E. (Or maybe Taiyō E.) Anyway, why don't you just list the full names? It's not like we have any space problems. :P —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 23:20, June 17, 2013 (UTC)

He left it as E. Taiyo because of the chinese surname thingy he told me about. Also you can vote TM Marcus/Michael Villanova 23:31, June 17, 2013 (UTC)
 * Maybe we should just simply call him "Taiyo" :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 09:59, June 18, 2013 (UTC)

Athletes
I think we should start compiling a list of athletes (like this one) to have for the IWO games. We already have a few athletes and teams, but we may need to create a basketball one (as we do have several teams in Lovia) and perhaps swimmers/runners. Sports like Basketball, rugby and Football would be male-only, and volleyball female. HORTON11 : •  13:27, June 18, 2013 (UTC)

Lovian Times Polling 19-20 June
Elections
 * 19-20 June 2013 - If a Federal Election happened tomorrow who would you give a major vote to?
 * 11 - Conservative Christian Party of Lovia
 * 1 - Social Christian Party
 * 1 - Social Liberal Party
 * 2 - Green Party
 * 2 - Conservative Nationalist Party
 * 2 - Labour Party
 * 1 - Other


 * 19-20 June 2013 - If a Federal Election happened tomorrow who would you give a minor vote to?
 * 1 - Conservative Christian Party of Lovia
 * 0 - Social Christian Party
 * 1 - Social Liberal Party
 * 3 - Green Party
 * 7 - Conservative Nationalist Party
 * 3 - Labour Party
 * 5 - Other


 * 19-20 June 2013 - If a Federal Election happened tomorrow who would you give a support vote to?
 * 2 - Conservative Christian Party of Lovia
 * 0 - Social Christian Party
 * 2 - Social Liberal Party
 * 5 - Green Party
 * 6 - Conservative Nationalist Party
 * 1 - Labour Party
 * 4 - Other

Approval
 * 19-20 June 2013 - Do you approve or disapprove of the Government's record to date?
 * 13 - Approve
 * 4 - Disapprove
 * 1 - Don't Know

Comments
Ready! :D Hoffmann Kunarian TALK 08:02, June 19, 2013 (UTC)
 * Wah, this is getting to become a tradición :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 09:24, June 19, 2013 (UTC)
 * It has already become one :P 4kant,6FRÅGOR??? 09:51, June 19, 2013 (UTC)
 * The statistics today seem rather strange. Did Oos invite several people from Maores or something? :P 77topaz (talk) 03:45, June 20, 2013 (UTC)
 * Too many sockpops, and we know where they came from. Maybe its the second option as well but at this point I don't trust people anymore or these polls (Hell even mine) Marcus/Michael Villanova 11:34, June 20, 2013 (UTC)
 * These are still accurate, just skewed, all you need to do is adjust for who you think the sockpops voted for. Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 12:38, June 20, 2013 (UTC)
 * Really? Because the last time I remember we didn't have 20+ members or the CCPL or CNP getting 10 votes. Its a tad obvious at this point. Marcus/Michael Villanova 12:58, June 20, 2013 (UTC)
 * Really really. And yes in the past CNP and CCPL have got large amounts of votes (CCPL first votes and CNP second and third). Just adjust it to how you think it will be. Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 16:58, June 20, 2013 (UTC)

On my polls a couple weeks ago, CCPL went from 2 to 8 in about 6 hours. :S —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 14:43, June 20, 2013 (UTC)

Yes but the regular amount of votes were cast, this one had about 20 votes, i'll i'm saying it this is an irregularity here. Marcus/Michael Villanova 15:19, June 20, 2013 (UTC)
 * Actually in the first polls 19 votes were cast so 20 is hardly out of reach, hey maybe it means we have visitors looking around the wiki more. Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 16:58, June 20, 2013 (UTC)
 * True and as they say the only poll that matters is the one on election day. Still a tad fishy though. Marcus/Michael Villanova 17:06, June 20, 2013 (UTC)
 * Exactly, and I do agree about fishyness but I wouldn't be surprised if CCPL turned out to be the biggest party if we had an election tomorrow. Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 17:10, June 20, 2013 (UTC)
 * Nah i'm not protesting that just by how much due to this sudden surge of 7+ quick votes and then the large approval rating for the government. I mean obviously its a conservative sockpop who with his many accounts split the vote CCPL/CNP and then vote "yes" for the government. Marcus/Michael Villanova 17:32, June 20, 2013 (UTC)

Oos only voted once and didn't invite anyone :'( --O u WTBsjrief-mich 19:09, June 20, 2013 (UTC)


 * I know It's not you :P I trust the country's uncle Marcus/Michael Villanova 19:21, June 20, 2013 (UTC)
 * That really gives me strength the carry on :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 12:17, June 21, 2013 (UTC)

Chat
Generally speaking, is the chat still being used? Of the last ten times I checked in, I only once had company - 77topaz, who ignored me :'( --O u WTBsjrief-mich 12:16, June 19, 2013 (UTC)
 * Yeah, it felt rather empty lately. I'll join you in a minute. Cadaro (talk) 12:28, June 19, 2013 (UTC)
 * I use it, but more in the afternoon/evening. --Semyon 15:54, June 19, 2013 (UTC)
 * :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 15:55, June 19, 2013 (UTC)
 * I use it at somewhat random times, but there is usually no one there so I tend to quit very soon after I join :P 4kant,6FRÅGOR??? 18:06, June 19, 2013 (UTC)
 * I'll probably be on soon. HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 18:42, June 19, 2013 (UTC)

I am beyond politics
I am beyond politicians and politics, above guitar licks and voting tricks. Above voting here, above voting there. Done with democracy, done with left and right, wrong or right. Fat or thin, black or white. Nigga I transcend that shit. I'm so real you can hardly see me, so you best recognize my greatness. I am more devine then Kanye, holier then thou art, sexiest and so smart. I'm a lyrical mastermind. I'm so fly, I'm a muthafucking Boeing. I am the sunset, the moon and the stars, the summertime sadness, the january election madness.

Now I have an announcement, I came to you in good faith. The Highlands are mine. Sylvania, you can have. Noble City, consider it a forfeit. For I care not for such heartless metropoles, those soulless capitals. The Highlands have my heart and soul. From Castle Donia until the borders of Train Village (which shall swiftly be renamed to something more suitable for a grown-up village in a grown-up nation not ran by idiot savage manchildren and bombastic pompous fools), I shall rule. Rule with a fist not of iron, nor of steel. It shall be... a fist of glory. And glory shall join and surely follow all those touched by it.

For better, for worse. Your servant, your master, your friend and your brother,


 * The glorious First Consul of Rome (talk) 20:53, June 19, 2013 (UTC)
 * BLASPHEMY HE HATH CLAIMED HE IS ABOVE THE ALMIGHTY YEEZUS! (a possible Lana Del Rey quote in there as well?) I agree Sylvania is too big, it needs to be broken up into three states (West, Highlands, East) Marcus/Michael Villanova 20:56, June 19, 2013 (UTC)
 * Loving the Del Rey reference he dropped there yes. Now it's stuck in my head... "summertime sadness... pom pom pom" *cue music* Cadaro (talk) 16:47, June 20, 2013 (UTC)
 * (Lovian Edition) WILL YOU STILL vOTE FOR ME WHEN I"M NO LONGER YOUNG AND BEAUTIFUL. Marcus/Michael Villanova 18:13, June 20, 2013 (UTC)
 * Yes, yes I will, million dollar baby. Cadaro (talk) 18:17, June 20, 2013 (UTC)
 * We should have a lana del rey Party xD haa Marcus/Michael Villanova 18:37, June 20, 2013 (UTC)
 * Skype-aided perhaps? :) Cadaro (talk) 19:23, June 20, 2013 (UTC)
 * Haa sure. Or invite her to the noble city festival :D Marcus/Michael Villanova 19:28, June 20, 2013 (UTC)
 * Then surely we should break up Clymene into three? or is there a cut off limit for a State? 40k, 50k, 60k? I'm not sure Oos would be happy to hear that one day that the grand state of Oceana shall be divided up because it got "too big". Shall America divide up California, Florida or Texas into new states? Or will the UK divide up England into new countries? No. Sylvania refuses this, wholly and completely, Sylvania is strong, Sylvania shall move forwards not backwards. The Donias will have their seats no doubt they will have their chance, but to cut a tree in half is to kill it. Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 22:16, June 19, 2013 (UTC)
 * Merely for political theater. Just as Donia always is. I mean his holiness the Donia needs a cheerleader, I'll just be the first to admit it :p Marcus/Michael Villanova 22:26, June 19, 2013 (UTC)
 * Nevermind, I enjoy my speeches almost as much as Donias. Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 22:40, June 19, 2013 (UTC)
 * I'll support western sylvanian just for political excitment and difference. Otherwise Sylvania is one of my favorite states. Marcus/Michael Villanova 23:17, June 19, 2013 (UTC)
 * To get back on "to cut a tree in half is to kill it": depends on how one cuts the tree :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 12:19, June 21, 2013 (UTC)
 * Generally in half any which way you cut it means death, or severe damage. Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 15:32, June 21, 2013 (UTC)
 * Unless the tree's been infected by fungus and that part is being cut away :o --O u WTBsjrief-mich 16:08, June 21, 2013 (UTC)


 * Yeezus is his bitch's bitch. Mss Kanye Kardashian, ha. That boys more whipped then Django's wife. Anyways, we should split it yes. And the Highlands are mine my friend. Clymene yours. The glorious First Consul of Rome (talk) 20:58, June 19, 2013 (UTC)
 * Ha, son you gots it xD while I'm fully for the political rampage that will soon occur i like it democratic of course. Well in the highlands, I may just be in Clymene too long for me too do anything about it :O but with Yeezus and Lanners all things are possible in him. Praise be to Donia and Yeezus. Marcus/Michael Villanova 21:06, June 19, 2013 (UTC)

Oceana shall ne'er be divided no more! We've had our share :'( --O u WTBsjrief-mich 05:02, June 20, 2013 (UTC)

Lovian soccer
We're kicking off the IWO games against Southern Arc Islands, and we're also playing Mäöres, Strasland and Libertas. (ICly) So cheer on the Jackpines and get your official jersey at Ultimate Sports. HORTON11 : •  06:27, June 20, 2013 (UTC)


 * Or the jersey's from the Keepkes, Libertas' national football team!!! :) Wabba The I (talk) 14:14, June 20, 2013 (UTC)
 * There's always the Red Dragons' Brunant shirt. But really guys we'll need to cheer on our athletes. Perhas we could start a fan organization or something to cheer Lovia on in Brunant. HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 17:20, June 20, 2013 (UTC)

NCRF started!
The Noble City Rock Festival has started today! Go and rock out to Eggwhites angsty power chords, chill out with the Picture Discs and rave the night away with The Neon Adventure!

Tomorrow will bring John Craig Ilava, Naselni Jazzeek, Full Frontal Buddha and many other older favourites, as well as new acts and a smashing rave party in the Warped Tent, hosted by the likes of Justin Dix and Shlomo.

The festival will end with crowd-pullers Hyperbola and The Coasters, and will conclude a (hopefully) magnificent three days with a couple of acts more suited to fans of the harder music genres, such as punk, rap rock and rap. ALSO: First Fold Then Tear will play on two occassions, not just one!

- The Tone Factory editors and the Warped Records management

Cadaro (talk) 19:33, June 21, 2013 (UTC)

I have a dream
Come with me to Sylvania, to the Emerald Highlands. Walk in green hills, valleys, forests. Witness the raw natural beauty. Be welcome in my castle, on my sister’s lap and be amused by my deformed and mentally deformed Nepalese Oompa Loompa friends. This is the Clan’s way, the Donia way. Come with me, come fly to the moon. And beyond, far beyond. Where men are men and women are women. Where your children can safely play outside without any danger from zombies. A magical place where nobody will gnaw on your brains. Ever. Your King is the lyrical Jesse James. Jump on it... freak out, she’s a superfreak. We can do this, together. Hand in hand. Change! Yes we can.

<p class="MsoNoSpacing">It is a land where your dreams can all come true, whatever they may be. A land where the beer flows freely, the barbeque is never far away and a steak awaits you at every corner, offered to you by handsome youths in bathing suits. Oh Caroline, it’s a gangsta’s paradise. It’s fun, it’s hip, it’s coolio. And you can’t touch this. We ain’t never crossed a man that didn’t deserve it. And every Sunday after church? We take you to the candy shop. Sayin’ prayers in the streetlight.

<p class="MsoNoSpacing">Come with me, brothers, sisters. Shine bright like a Diamandis. We got swagger like Jagger. We brush our teeth with a bottle of Jack. Let me be your Gandhi, let me be your Donia Lama. Your Dalai Swagga. Your Yeezes Cryptonite. Your man of teal. We will find them on the beaches... we will fight them on the bars. And we will never surrender.

<p class="MsoNoSpacing">Forever yours,

<p class="MsoNoSpacing">Big Poppa, The glorious First Consul of Rome (talk) 20:56, June 21, 2013 (UTC)

<p class="MsoNoSpacing">Yeah! You are God and Gandhi and we? Slaves!!! Wabba The I (talk) 21:24, June 21, 2013 (UTC)

<p class="MsoNoSpacing">:I think it, you say it. Though I would not say I am God, per se, though people tell me all the time I bear an uncanny resemblance to these guys. Now don't make me blush, Ms. Lennox! The glorious First Consul of Rome (talk) 21:27, June 21, 2013 (UTC)


 * Willy Wonka
 * Sinatra
 * Some Disco Crap
 * Obama
 * Coolio
 * MC Esher
 * 50 Cent
 * Riannah/Marina and the Diamonds
 * Marroon 5
 * Ke$ha
 * Idk wtf Ghandi?
 * KANye
 * Notorious BIG All the references i could point out. Marcus/Michael Villanova 22:49, June 21, 2013 (UTC)
 * God save the king? Now it is time to forget our heroes, a new hero has arisen. Noble City calling to the outer towns, relaying The Message of a new dynasty, a new truth. Ygo is not a punk rocker, he is a crazy diamond, and a damn polished one in that. I wish you were here, Donia, rider on the storm. I will write you a Song for Karen, a transmission of isolation and other examples of atrocity exhibitions in my own, perfect colony. Platonic love will tear us apart when you die. The queen king is dead? He is most certainly not! It takes a nation of millions to hold us back, our bringer of truth and honesty, to hold us back from loving our king and fighting for our right to party with the d'yermaker in the Houses of the Holy, the royal palace. Dance the Mussolini, dance the Adolf Hitler, our revered autocratician is back! Let us dance 'til it is 3AM, 3AM Eternal (what time is love?). Let the party start, fueled by halcyon on and on, heroin (and Andy Warhol bananas, you venus in furs), brown sugar, speedball, cannonball, bottles of jack and sweet dreams (are made of this). Cadaro (talk) 21:47, June 21, 2013 (UTC)

New website
New music website online! --&gt; Click &lt;--. Check it out guys. Cadaro (talk) 01:44, June 22, 2013 (UTC)

Coalition for Clymene
In the past few days I've been speaking on a possible merger and political future for Labour and myself. Now after a short discussion, a new coalition has been made for Clymene. A short discussion was had with Mr.Szóhad and what was clear was that while sharing many ideological viewpoints, we shared a great conern for Clymene that no other politician can credibly say. Szóhad and I were in the Executive roles last time in 2011 and Clymene prospered and saw new reforms and innovation in Hightech Valley, Adoha and Downtown Sofasi that no one could imagine. Along with that we fought hard and long for devolution and for Plains to become a recognized settlement. But we spoke again and decided the greatness we accomplished couldn't be forgot, since now the current Executives are throwing this state's greatness away. It's not ideology that binds us in this new Coalition for Clymene but the concern and love for the State which can boast highest in green jobs and the best and most afforable healthcare in the nation. Things accomplished under my governorship with the help of Szóhad. I hope this fall you vote with your heart and mind and know that this coalition is the best possible thing to help Clymene. Thank you. Marcus/Michael Villanova 23:42, June 22, 2013 (UTC)

Well, I'm staying with Labour but your coalition definitely has my minor vote in Clymene :) Frijoles333 / Marcel Cebara (talk) 20:10, June 25, 2013 (UTC)

Just a heads up
Everyone. we're starting the selection for The Greatest Brunanter over in Brunant, and if anyone is interested we're now accepting nominations for Brunanters in 5 categories: Historical figures, Politicians, Sportspeople, Entertainers and Artists and humanists. HORTON11 : •  13:06, June 24, 2013 (UTC)

Map
So, I want to create a very detailed topographical map of Lovia, and I saw that others have already done some groundwork, such as Kunarians list of settlements, and Yuris old Kings maps. If you have any input, or things that should definitely be added to the map, I'd be glad to use that. Cadaro (www.tonefactory.lo) 13:29, June 24, 2013 (UTC)
 * Wait, there's a height map for Oshenna, let me search for it. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 13:31, June 24, 2013 (UTC)
 * Settlements - use of ground - height-rock formations - height-water. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 13:34, June 24, 2013 (UTC)
 * I have a topographical map of Sylvania, partly done with a few rivers on it, I'll work on it a bit, try to finish it up and give it to you. Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 13:42, June 24, 2013 (UTC)
 * Donia Castle, in the Emerald Highland, Sylvania. The glorious First Consul of Rome (talk) 14:33, June 24, 2013 (UTC)

So, here is a first concept of the outline (click on the image to get an idea of the details on the coastline). I am thinking of adding a few tiny islets and reefs here and there to flesh it out a bit. Is that okay? Cadaro (www.tonefactory.lo) 15:20, June 24, 2013 (UTC)
 * Please, no habitable island. Small rocks and wadplaten are okay. Reefs are ofcourse also good: Oceana Reef --O u WTBsjrief-mich 15:22, June 24, 2013 (UTC)
 * It looks good so far. I'll have that map for you soon. Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 15:25, June 24, 2013 (UTC)

Okay, I won't add any islands or rocks (I was thinking about really small ones, but okay). It is true, we don't wanna go against previous maps. Cadaro (www.tonefactory.lo) 15:47, June 24, 2013 (UTC) Here's the map. It's got most of the planned major rivers and the elevation is largely still in rough but it should help. Hoffmann Kunarian TALK 16:03, June 24, 2013 (UTC)
 * Ah yes, thank you very much. Appreciate it. Cadaro (www.tonefactory.lo) 16:13, June 24, 2013 (UTC)

Elevation map (first step-up to a geographical map)
Explanation (read carefully!):

So, this is the final product of a few hours hard labor in Adobe Illustrator: an elevation map of Lovia. I will use this map as base map for a geographical map that will include rivers, geographical regions, mountain peaks and possibly sea elevations. The map is created using a vector program, so I can freely delete, add, edit or move objects (that is, the shapes of which this map consists). So feel free to make suggestions for additions, edits and corrections. I tried to stay true to Lovian 'lore': I sought up every map available of Lovia and overlayed them over the coastline I showed you in a previous post. Then, I made them semi-transparent and traced/guessed the elevation isomeres using the maps and Lovian articles on things like the Emerald Mountains and the state articles on geography. This enabled me to fill in the blanks: Clymene has never been properly mapped, and some maps looked fancy, but didn't tell me a lot. I spiced up the Emerald mountains a bit (roughening the overall shape, adding a few small ranges in a close proximity to the original Heights core), because I felt that they looked a bit off compared to the rest of Lovia when I finished the map. I am particularly grateful to Kunarian for providing such a complete and detailed map, which allowed me to finish the rest of Peace Island without guessing a whole lot.

I took the maximum elevations -as indicated on the wiki for every island and state- in account when drawing the isomeres. So everything is (if I didn't make any mistakes) true to the wiki-lore. (For instance, at first I hadn't drawn any elevation isomeres on the Isles of London and Frisco, those two islets in the southwest corner, but when I looked them up, the actually had elevations exceeding 25 meters but not above 50 meters).

One important note: I inserted some extra elevation layers between each "known" layer. OWTBs map indicated 50, 100, 250 and 500 meters for example. I added 25 and 750 meters. The 25 meters allowed me to play a bit more with the low regions. Cadaro (www.tonefactory.lo) 20:35, June 24, 2013 (UTC)



This is amazing. And no problem about that map, what's the next step, I have more maps that I've started. Again, simply amazing. Hoffmann Kunarian TALK 21:37, June 24, 2013 (UTC)
 * Wow, it really looks great! Thanks! :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 22:26, June 24, 2013 (UTC)

I am currently working on adding the urban areas. I am aware that Kunarian and OWTB are developing a whole new range of new settlements for their respective states. I will do the same with Clymene. I don't know if Semyon is still active, but I suppose it wouldn't hurt if I added one or two settlements (that is, the really small places like OWTB and Kunarian are working on). I ask you guys to create a list of prospective settlements for Kings (and possibly Seven) and then I am all set. Cadaro (www.tonefactory.lo) 23:02, June 24, 2013 (UTC)

I would moderate the elevation in the northern half of the peaks in Kings to the lighter brown (or even shorter than that) and change the elevation of one of those islands in Seven to have an elevation higher in the middle. Otherwise looks very nice. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 00:33, June 25, 2013 (UTC)

I think we need to decide certain states like clymene together especially since many people would have vested interest there. :P Marcus/Michael Villanova 01:00, June 25, 2013 (UTC)

Nice map! :) 4kant,6FRÅGOR??? 06:48, June 25, 2013 (UTC)

Perhaps the elevation near Sofasi goes up too quickly. Considering Hightech Valley is north of downtown Sofasi, and the airport is there too (you'd need relatively flat grounds for those). --O u WTBsjrief-mich 08:47, June 25, 2013 (UTC)

I like it. :) With regards to the settlements in Seven - atm apart from Kinley and Novosevensk the only major settlements are Amish Kinley and Rybachye. On other islands there are only isolated farms, though if it would make the map nicer, I might make a couple of other larger ones. --Semyon 10:00, June 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * Yes please, that would definitely improve the map. You don't have to think of dozens of settlements (that wouldn't be realistic too) but two new ones would be cool. Cadaro (www.tonefactory.lo) 10:18, June 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * Alright, I'll add it to my to-do list. :) --Semyon 10:21, June 25, 2013 (UTC)

Also, regarding some suggestion about the elevation map, I can address some: I used the topographical map of Kings made by Regaliorum (Yuri), which clearly states that those northern areas have peaks above 500 meters. I will look into the Clymene issue and see if it is feasible to soften the elevation a bit in the south to accomodate the runway. I stayed true to Sevens topographical map, so I think it is Semyons business whether or not Seven looks good. Cadaro (www.tonefactory.lo) 10:25, June 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * Lovia - only country where height of the land is adjusted to suit building projects. --Semyon 10:45, June 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * Look up the Dutch province of Flevoland. You will be pleasantly surprised. Cadaro (www.tonefactory.lo) 11:27, June 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * Well, we've got the Netherlands - only country where existance of the land is adjusted to suit building projects :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 11:16, June 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * Coincidentally, I was just reading about Flevoland. Sounds like a rather weird place, tbh. --Semyon 11:28, June 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * It is,a ctually, nobody likes it. Not even the Flevolanders themselves :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 12:47, June 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * I'm aware, but the colors don't agree with the marked highest elevation. On that map, the colors are below 500m while the marked highest elevation in each of the locations is above. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 13:54, June 25, 2013 (UTC)

So, any suggestions for Kings settlements? Cadaro (www.tonefactory.lo) 11:55, June 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * I had a few ideas a while ago, I've made a map on top of your topographical map. Red dots are the minor settlements. Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 13:53, June 25, 2013 (UTC)




 * I kind of want a small settlement close to my Castle where more relatives and personnel of mine can live, Brigadiers can find lodging and perhaps a small motel and diner can be set up for tourists or mountaineers traveling through the area. Nothing too big or fancy, just a small adorable little village where no more then 150 people at most will be living. The glorious First Consul of Rome (talk) 13:00, June 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * See the Amish Kinley solution. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 13:12, June 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * That's a suitable solution. Would Amish Kingsley, and my own version of it in the Emeralds, be on the maps, too? I assume so. That officializes their existance. The glorious First Consul of Rome (talk) 13:16, June 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * Hahah :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 13:27, June 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * Preferably this settlement wouldn't be in Sylvania? all the population and settlements are figured and the non-metropolitan rural population lives around normally on sparse farmsteads. Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 13:41, June 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * I kind of insist they'd be near the Castle, which is located in the Emerald Highlands of Sylvania. To place it outside the state would be crazy and pointless. The glorious First Consul of Rome (talk) 14:25, June 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * Maybe I could offer you a place in Oceana, way up in the Emeralds? :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 14:27, June 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * As long as dat lew would be eskapat, I'd feel mighty safe in Oshenna! The glorious First Consul of Rome (talk) 14:30, June 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * Okay, just build a few illegal houses near the border and the Gonner will personally make sure they are safe against demolition :P As nobody knows of this, we won't include 'em on the maps. It's our secret :o --O u WTBsjrief-mich 14:32, June 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * It has to be on maps of course. I seek eternality, for my creations to exist in and outside of time itself. Think big, dare dream, dare reach for those stars my friend. I don't build stuff for it not to be admired. The glorious First Consul of Rome (talk) 14:36, June 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * :o Okay, you make sure it gets on maps. I ain't responsible if other people find out :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 14:42, June 25, 2013 (UTC)

Lovian Times Polling 25-26 June
Elections 25-26 June 2013 - If a Federal Election happened tomorrow who would you give a major vote to? Conservative Christian Party of Lovia Social Christian Party Social Liberal Party Green Party Conservative Nationalist Party Labour Party Other

25-26 June 2013 - If a Federal Election happened tomorrow who would you give a minor vote to? Conservative Christian Party of Lovia Social Christian Party Social Liberal Party Green Party Conservative Nationalist Party Labour Party Other

25-26 June 2013 - If a Federal Election happened tomorrow who would you give a support vote to? Conservative Christian Party of Lovia Social Christian Party Social Liberal Party Green Party Conservative Nationalist Party Labour Party Other

Approval 25-26 June 2013 - Do you approve or disapprove of the Government's record to date? Approve Disapprove Don't Know

Comments
Weekly tradition up and going. Hoffmann Kunarian TALK 07:09, June 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * Kunarian, I know your votes now :o --O u WTBsjrief-mich 08:48, June 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * I haven't voted! Oos can see into my mind! :O Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 09:53, June 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * :o Then there are actually other people voting for CNP too :o This is a strange world... :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 10:00, June 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * Verily. Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 10:19, June 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * Quite. Cadaro (www.tonefactory.lo) 10:26, June 25, 2013 (UTC)

Charles for Charleston


Charles Alexander Bennett is Charleston local leader, helping build the community and allowing massive growth come to the city. He fought for Lovia and defended his town durning the Civil War, he proudly aligns himself not with a party but as a independent and is fully dedicated to the people whom elect him. Bennett is a centrist, understanding view points from both sides. Help elect Bennett to continue Charlestons growth. -Sunkist- (talk) 12:02, June 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * Great message, build community and listen to all views. I think it's also good to have someone very dedicated to building a culture and idea around. For these reasons I completely throw my support behind your campaign good sir. Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 13:16, June 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * I second that. You have my fullest support, Mr. Bennett, my good humble hard-working Christian brother. May you live long and may Charleston prosper under your benevolent rule. The glorious First Consul of Rome (talk) 13:19, June 25, 2013 (UTC)

Settlements Map
And yet another map, indicating the settlements of Lovia. According to me and Kunarian (and by the looks of it OWTB, Semyon and Magnus) this is the direction we want to go with Lovia: more settlements. They don't all need a wikitable map, and I am in favor of updating the system of using wikitables as maps. The amount of settlements makes more sense, as Lovia has 200,000 inhabitants (comparable to Iceland).

I took all of your suggestions and own plans in account when creating these new settlements. For Oceana and Sylvania, I only added settlements that were listed in Kunarians and OWTBs settlement lists. I took great care to label them correctly. As OWTB has only given a rough indication of the location of the Oshenna settlements, I tried to fill in the blanks and place them in the correct position. In the case of Sylvania, I traced the location of the settlements using Kunarians maps.

The settlements of Seven and their respective locations were discussed with Semyon, and added according to his suggestions.

As I am affiliated with Clymene, I took the freedom to implement my own state plan there and add the settlements I am working on in my user space.

Because there is currently no one taking care of Kings in particular, I added settlements as well in Kings. I tried to do this with great care, and imposed a few rules on myself:
 * Settlement names in Kings are either based on Kings lore (founding father Johnson, the King, the prevalence of terns and gulls on the east coast, the Windthorn Shore and so on) or taken from the list of most common place names in the US on the English Wikipedia. This way, I remained neutral and didn't interfere with existing lore
 * The placement of settlements is (partly) based on the land use map of Yuri (look it up). He also stated that there were a few settlements between Portland and Newhaven. Cadaro (www.tonefactory.lo) 13:50, June 25, 2013 (UTC)

Anyway, here is the map:

I have no idea what to call the settlements, but add some to the river mouths that are visible in the northeast of Kings, east of Clymene, etc. and others where you feel is best to mirror the density of the settlements in Oceana and Sylvania. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 13:56, June 25, 2013 (UTC)

Oceana has one city and one hamlet, while Kings has one (large) city, one (large) town and one hamlet, so I think things even out. Also, Oceana has a lot more smaller rural hamlets. At least, that was my reasoning behind it. I didn't add more settlements, as Kings is currently without a user taking care of it. If you can come up with some names, however, I would gladly add them. Clymene has 3/4th of Oceanas inhabitants, and Adoha, Sofasi and Plains are quite large. My reasoning there is that Clymene is quite undeveloped. Cadaro (www.tonefactory.lo) 14:02, June 25, 2013 (UTC)

All of the settlements with no articles are hamlets, with less than 100 people, so they would not increase the population more than 20% if added to major settlements. They're already accounted for in censuses, anyway. Beaverwick is a village but its page is not yet updated. I guess not much I can do to make Clymene and Seven have more, but as Governor of Kings, I order you to add more settlements to Kings to mirror the density of Sylvania and Oceana. If it's any help, the river mouth a little above the center of the eastern coastline is a Muslim themed town. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 14:08, June 25, 2013 (UTC)

Kunarian made a map further up the page, you could use that while I think of some names. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 14:10, June 25, 2013 (UTC)

You should've consulted with me on the settlement names.numbers etc. as governor. I wouldn't want to have any more development outside of Adoha in Truth Island, as I would like to protect the forests and natural zones around. As for the rest we should try and align them along the major roads, as that is more plausible. Then again I also want to add a few more state roads. HORTON11 : •  14:12, June 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * As admirable as this is, settlements would have definitely formed, if just one or two more. What would you do? turf them up and force them off their land? Hoffmann LogoCNP.png Kunarian TALK 14:23, June 25, 2013 (UTC)

There's only one other settlement on Truth Island (Clinton) and it's where Highway 5 goes by between Sofasi and Adoha. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 14:14, June 25, 2013 (UTC)

Hwy 5 seems to end in Adoha, and I believe most of our development should be focused on Asian Island, as most people in Clymene live there. HORTON11 : •  14:17, June 25, 2013 (UTC)

Yes, and Clinton is between Adoha and Sofasi, where a bridge would be built due to the shorter distance over water. :P —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 14:21, June 25, 2013 (UTC)


 * I do insist, Donia Castle has to be included on the map. It's an important landmark, historically and perhaps the largest building of the nation when it comes to surface. The glorious First Consul of Rome (talk) 14:23, June 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * The Bridge already exists, but it's location isn't specified. But you're right, the highway map seems to confirm what you just said. But instead of an actual settlement on that spot, I would like to have a smallstop for travelers, with a small store for porivions, gas station and of couse a few houses. HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 14:24, June 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * Horton, I'd rather have people suggest new stuff instead of removing things. We have to even out things, y'know. Also, I have been involved in Clymene for quite some years now, as SKWikistad and Cadaro, so I feel I have at least a say in the matter. @Magnus: this map only shows settlements, no landmarks. Those will be added in a next map. Expect a large, pulsating dot with caps-locked "DONIA CASTLE" as a token of friendship, okay? Cadaro (www.tonefactory.lo) 14:31, June 25, 2013 (UTC)

Yeah, these settlements are all hamlets, so that is all it would be (plus a few farms). —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 14:30, June 25, 2013 (UTC)


 * I would have imagined some being slightly larger (Maybe not like Milerose or Plains, but definately like an unincorporated community as we have in Brunant. [[User:Horton11| HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 14:33, June 25, 2013 (UTC)

Settlements map suggestions
Okay everyone shut up now. :P Please write down what changes you want in one comment, and I will address them if reasonable. Try to include names of settlements and locations if possible, otherwise people will persist being unhappy about the whole thing. Cadaro (www.tonefactory.lo) 14:35, June 25, 2013 (UTC)


 * There will be a small settlement\village at the foot of Donia Castle, near the mountain it is located on. It will be named Magna Augusta, and will house members of the Donia Clan, employees, barracks and lodgings for the Brigadiers, and housing and some shops for tourists and mountaineers exploring local wildlife and mountains. I also plan for there to be a solar observation installation, and to have one of the castle's towers be used for the sake of birth watching and tracking local flora, fauna and wildlife, as I care deeply for the environment. There will not live more then 150 people in here at most and it will not be too large. Comparable to Amish Kingsley. The glorious First Consul of Rome (talk) 14:40, June 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * Boynitz should be in the green line between the two brown blocks in Oceana :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 14:46, June 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * This map looks nice too :) Just one little note: the name "Tern Beach" (assuming the last word is "beach") goes off the map :P 4kant,6FRÅGOR??? 14:58, June 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * That hamlet's located in Kings, btw :P 4kant,6FRÅGOR??? 15:00, June 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * All three suggestion granted. I am now waiting for the rest of the people who had complaints/additions before I render it again. If you now all could come up with names for settlements in Kings, that'd be great. Cadaro (www.tonefactory.lo) 15:01, June 25, 2013 (UTC)

If Donia has his Magna Augusta it will need to be on the Oceana side as all Sylvania is decided, I do not mind there being a very slight non-metropolitan conglomeration near the castle if it still needs be in Sylvania but nothing like a proper 100 around settlement like Coaltown and Severnybana. I also would like the adjustments from my Kunar is picky map, if you could please. And I second the increase of settlements in Kings to a reasonable density, also I'll start thinking of name ideas. Other than that nothing really, you've done a good job. Hoffmann Kunarian TALK 15:06, June 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * I have moved the three towns of your choice though. Take a close look. The Magna Augusta settlement is in Oceana. Cadaro (www.tonefactory.lo) 15:12, June 25, 2013 (UTC)

Add all hamlets that Kunarian had on his proposed Kings map, with the exception of one hamlet from the northern hills being moved to the river mouth off to the east. Names coming soon. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 15:10, June 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * Four dots already correspond the Kunarian map, I will add the remaining dots though. Cadaro (www.tonefactory.lo) 15:12, June 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * Kings suggestions: I'd go for the lazy option and add Cape Donald, Westmark and Hawke's Wood to the map within their respective districts. :P Kings is meant to have a reasonably high population of British descent so perhaps steal a few names such as Manchester or Sunderland? Other suggestion: Burke's Dam, Long Shot, Lost Cause, Beer, Stanley, Brunswick, Hewlett, Neale Downs. --Semyon 15:17, June 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * Beer? :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 15:19, June 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * Definitely not the least plausible one on that list. There's even a crater on Mars called Beer, apparently. :P --Semyon 15:21, June 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * :o I always knew there was something biblical about beer :o --O u WTBsjrief-mich 15:22, June 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure it's mentioned, actually, though wine is (as we've already discussed on the MIGFE page :P) --Semyon 15:28, June 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * Of course: Oceana wine :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 15:30, June 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * You're mistaken, my friend. They were talking about Chester Valley wine, the best in the world after the French. HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 15:43, June 25, 2013 (UTC)

For Clymene, only a few name changes would be necessary, as some are too similar to other places in Lovia. Other than that the position etc. is good. HORTON11 : •  15:43, June 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * Roosendorp to Rosendorp (would likely have become anglicized)
 * Newtown to Abington (Newtown is already used, too dull)
 * Glesga (great and unique)
 * Timber Harbor: perhaps we can give it a name in Bredish
 * Eastwood can stay the same or we can go with Rosswold, Rosewold, Rosswood
 * Aberdeen perhaps to Lisney

Kings Hamlet List (without Long Shot, Lost Cause, Beer, etc.) (if bad Dutch then correct please):
 * Windthorn Harbor --> Cape Donald
 * east northeast (20 degrees above due east maybe) of the northernmost peak, in that small bay-ish area: Windthorn
 * Milton, Fort Johnson, and Newcastle are good.
 * Tern Beach --> Estarois
 * King's Farms --> Koningdorp
 * Noble Farms --> Edeldorp
 * Centerville --> Centreville
 * Oostdorp east of Milton.
 * Bergdorf next to the northernmost peak.
 * Hewlett between the three hamlets in the west just south of Newhaven, in the middle of the triangle that they form.
 * Whatever the name of the Muslim hamlet was going to be, will be back with it later Thameen, north of Estarois and south of Windthorn.
 * You can come up with a few (not more than 4 or 5 probably) more but get German in the North, French in the East/Centre, Dutch in the Centre/Southeast, and American/British in the West please. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 16:52, June 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * Ow, you were a bit late with the suggestions. Is the newest version of the map okay with you? Cadaro (www.tonefactory.lo) 16:57, June 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * So just change it again? :P It's not okay, btw. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 17:04, June 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * Okay, um, I'll see what I can do. Your instructions are now a tad outdated, but I'd be glad to implement them: can you take a look at the map and give me another update on proposed changes? I will do the following already in the meantime: add Thameen, change Centerville to Centreville. Cadaro (www.tonefactory.lo) 17:30, June 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * Also, Koningdorp -> Koningsdorp sounds better, but sounds a bit bland and off to me. (We have had a queen since the 1890s, and only a few months ago we got another king in the Netherlands). Edeldorp doesn't sound like a proper Dutch name to me. In fact most of the X-dorp names sound a bit bland and weird to me. We don't usually have that many names like that in the Netherlands :P Centreville is okay, but mind you, I took Centerville from the list of most common US place names. It probably experienced anglicization. Hewlett reminds me of Hewlett-Packard and a quick google search tells me that it is not a very common English name. Imho Windthorn Harbor sounds really good (I could add Cape Donald next to it). Tern Beach -> Estarois? What is an Estarois? Cadaro (www.tonefactory.lo) 17:38, June 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * I got Estarois from french Est À Rois (East at Kings) and simplified it. Simple X-dorps, X-dorfs, X-villes, are fine imo, but I'll find something to replace Edeldorp. Koningsdorp is fine. Centreville was for French. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 20:20, June 25, 2013 (UTC)

Final version. (Or is it?)
Okay, so I granted all of your requests and implemented all suggested changes and additions (also TimeMasters last minute suggestions) I only ignored one change, namely the Noble Farms -> Edeldorp suggestion, as I felt "Edeldorp" sounds a bit weird. The rest of TimeMasters suggestions have been implemented. Cadaro (www.tonefactory.lo) 19:25, June 25, 2013 (UTC)


 * It looks great. It's not exactly how I envisaged it, but it's still really good. And if you have the chance, do you think you could help me out to make a similar map in Brunant? I did make a topographic map but not nearly a well-made or detailed. HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 19:37, June 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * Cadaro, my congratulations. I'll give you a 9.5/10 (it's Heighn o w, not Heighn a w) :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 19:39, June 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * @ TimeMaster: Tomorrow I am going jamming with my band and Thursday and Friday I am at friends in Leiden, so that's not going to work, but I will look into it in the not too distant future. "It's not exactly how I envisaged it" - care to explain? :P
 * @OWTB: oops, will fix that asap. Cadaro (www.tonefactory.lo) 19:41, June 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * I believe you misspelled "Horton": :P Beautiful map anyway :) 4kant,6FRÅGOR??? 19:45, June 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * I didn't expect to have so many settlements, but we can work with that. HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 19:48, June 25, 2013 (UTC)

Articles
It follows that we should write the articles on the hamlet we just decided on. I propose the following:
 * I think we should simplify the categories we use for settlements. I propose using "city" for the three largest settlements (Noble City, Hurbanova and Newhaven), using "town" or "village" for the rest of the traditional settlements (that is, all settlements that already exist, like Sofasi, Clave Rock, TV, Portland, East Hills and so on, with the exception of Amish Kinley), and using "hamlet" for all the new settlements + Amish Kinley.
 * We could do with a new and better infobox for settlements. I am working on that.

So here is the deal:
 * 1) Take a red link from the list below and create a new article
 * 2) Use this draft as an underground for your articles. Don't worry about the two non-existent templates. I will create them soon
 * 3) Change all placeholders ("X") to the proper names.
 * 4) Apart from Lovian English, add additional languages if necessary (Oshenna in Oceana, Bredish in Clymene, Russian in Novosevensk, and so on)
 * 5) Add a population figure, using your (reasonable) imagination and existing demographical figures.
 * 6) Try too flesh out the article a bit with original text: economy, location, notable things and so on.
 * 7) Add the category "hamlet" and "hamlet in [state]".
 * 8) Check if you didn't fuck up.
 * 9) (for governors) integrate the hamlets in your state articles and related articles.
 * 10) Substitute village for hamlet in the largest new settlements (>500 inhabitants).

Here is the list: Cadaro (www.tonefactory.lo) 19:58, June 25, 2013 (UTC)

Removed Noble Farms (unacceptable, not changing to Edeldorp is fine but please find a better name), got rid of Harbor from Windthorn (also please change) and changed village to hamlet. These would be hamlets, below 100 inhabitants. If they are above, then yes, they would be villages, but I believe most of them are hamlets. Also, do these really all need articles? :P —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 20:00, June 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * As I said, I didn't change Noble Farms to Edeldorp, that's the only change I didn't implement. Also, I think it would really make Lovia more interesting. I mean, we have articles on the most trivial things. Cadaro (www.tonefactory.lo) 20:04, June 25, 2013 (UTC)

Btw, what is wrong with Windthorn Harbor and Noble Farms? Does it sound weird in English? Cadaro (www.tonefactory.lo) 20:05, June 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * Noble Farms isn't too bad but it implies a couple of farms nearby each other which isn't really a settlement, so I'd prefer something else that can be decided later. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 20:08, June 25, 2013 (UTC)

Edit Conflicts!!! Previous - Okay. In addition to the above, move Windthorn to about due east of Bergdorf and a tad north, in the center of the coast of the bay, and remove Sunderland and Hawke's Wood (will become a natural area), and it should be good. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 20:08, June 25, 2013 (UTC)

@ Cadaro - Not at all. But Noble Farms sounds like a brand you'd find at a supermarket. Btw we could call these new places "unincorporated settlements", that is existing but not organized. HORTON11 : •  20:09, June 25, 2013 (UTC)

One more thing, move Thameen each north about how far Thameen is from Stanley right now and Estarois twice that distance. @Horton Yes, and I think hamlet would be better since I think we only have 1 or 2 left. :P Also, I liked the less wordy name for Windthorn since a hamlet wouldn't usually be a harbor. :P —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 20:10, June 25, 2013 (UTC)

Oh, and once Hawke's Wood has been removed, put Oostdorp where it was. And you know what, keep Sunderland on but put it next to the second northernmost peak, south of Bergdorf and would-be Edeldorp/Noble Farms. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 20:16, June 25, 2013 (UTC)

Please, no "unincorporated settlements". I never understood that American system... --O u WTBsjrief-mich 20:20, June 25, 2013 (UTC)

Found out that the Northern Basin is a protected area, so remove Cape Donald as a settlement and make sure to put Windthorn in the correct location. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 20:41, June 25, 2013 (UTC)

Lol, getting close now. :P Hawke's Wood and Sunderland are right next to other settlements, so please remove Hawke's Wood or move Oostdorp due east and a tad north to the coast and move Sunderland to nearby the second northernmost peak. Other than that, I think moving Estarois to touching the coast instead of a little bit inland would make it perfect. —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 20:47, June 25, 2013 (UTC)

I;ve spent alot of time on Clymene I just wouldn't like my ideas to be ignored :/ I had some ideas for settlements on the Reform & Liberty Party page about various british and chinese settlements. Hopefully they are added :/ Marcus/Michael Villanova 20:51, June 25, 2013 (UTC)

Protected area =|= no human inhabitation. Compare Yellowstone NP. Also, I implemented your suggestions, but left Sunderland and Hawke's Wood, because otherwise we are back were we begun: less hamlets than Oceana (which has got less inhabitants). Consider them my additions. I will not remove Cape Donald, because most other states also have hamlets in protected areas, and that is perfectly possible. I changed Windthorn Harbor (Regaliorum originally created the name Windthorn) to Nordhorn, as you're right and 'tis a silly name (only references I can find on the internet are WoW and HP fanfics afaik). Nordhorn is a German city and I chose that name because it is in the immediate vicinity of Bergdorf. I changed the location of the hamlet as well, and moved Thameen and Estarois. I will leave Cape Donald, Sunderland and Hawke's Wood alone, as removing them will bring down the amount of hamlets too much. Remember that hamlets can also be situated in natural areas (Glesga, many Oceana and Sylvania hamlets). EDIT CONFLICT post scriptum: I will look into moving Sunderland and Hawke's Wood, but I suggest you take a look at Hurbanova and its many villages. According to me, the close proximity of those hamlets suggest a higher population density. Cadaro (www.tonefactory.lo) 20:53, June 25, 2013 (UTC)

Keeping them is fine, they're just too close to other settlements. Move Windthorn/Nordhorn and Estarois if you haven't, please. I'd move Sunderland to the second northernmost peak and Oostdorp due east to the coast. Otherwise it is fine. Anyway, I think most protected areas are intended to be wildlife preserves without human inhabitation, and as Governor of Kings, I declare that to be the case, so no Cape Donald (there are geysers there anyway). :P —TimeMaster (talk • contribs) 20:58, June 25, 2013 (UTC)

Anyway, I'll flashcreate the articles tomorrow :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 21:04, June 25, 2013 (UTC) (yes, the academic year is over, sort of :P)
 * Anyway, does the town name "Lemburg" has something to do with "Lèmbörg"? :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 21:14, June 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * Probably Lvov, judging from Semyons origins. It used to be called Lemberg or Lemburg. Cadaro (www.tonefactory.lo) 21:24, June 25, 2013 (UTC)

Final final version
I have just made another revision, and I am considering not doing another one. You are all allowed one additional complaint, with the added danger of me possibly ignoring it. I added Xiangu, Cornwall, and Yongye, as I am very fond of Marcus and can't possibly grant every request except his. I also complied with TimeMaster after a lengthy battle. Congrats, fighting partner! I moved Etarois towards the coast, and changed the locations of Sunderland and Oostdorp. I also removed Cape Donald (buhuhuh). :P Cadaro (www.tonefactory.lo) 21:43, June 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * We already have Abington and Lisney as our Anglo-Saxon placenames and we don't need a Chinese one, as they are mostly in Sofasi. Like I said I would like to have a Chinatown in sofasi and we can apply Chinese names locally. HORTON11 : Email_icon.jpg • follow_me.PNG 21:47, June 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * I think Lovia is finally complete :D Glad to see Kings manily be a small mix of Dutch and British peoples alike :D Marcus/Michael Villanova 21:52, June 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks a lot. I am very content with the results too, and in the process I taught myself some more tricks in Illustrator, so I actually spent my afternoon in a meaningful way. It is pixelated heroin though, I need to stop for a moment soon :P Cadaro (www.tonefactory.lo) 21:59, June 25, 2013 (UTC)