Talk:La Quotidienne

/Archive зOriginal name :P --O u WTB 18:16, November 8, 2009 (UTC)
 * Mersi! "Cotidianul" was misschien toch beter geweest? >:) --Bucurestean 18:26, November 8, 2009 (UTC)
 * Mersie*. Denk 't :P --O u WTB 18:29, November 8, 2009 (UTC)
 * Mersië :S --Bucurestean 18:45, November 8, 2009 (UTC)
 * Nee, dan is 't mersieë (spreek uit: mársjah zoiets). Dat is de datief van "mersie" (het bedankje). In iets als: "Bie het bedankje viel ik van m'n stoel" -> "Bie g'm mersieë vole 'ch ven miene stole." --O u WTB 18:49, November 8, 2009 (UTC)

Don't worry, I'll finish the article soon... (my dog guinnea pig ate it) ^^ --Bucurestean 18:48, November 8, 2009 (UTC) LAZY
 * :P --O u WTB 18:49, November 8, 2009 (UTC)

Is 't nu ook al een radiostation? --O u WTB 19:18, November 8, 2009 (UTC)
 * No, why, because of "stay tuned"? :D --Bucurestean 19:24, November 8, 2009 (UTC)
 * Ssjjjt :P --O u WTB 19:25, November 8, 2009 (UTC)

Congratulations
Looks well! Nicely done. I am happy to see our press is thriving once again. 18:17, November 9, 2009 (UTC)
 * --> he's saying after one article (A) --Bucurestean 19:07, November 9, 2009 (UTC)
 * It just looks well . 19:09, November 9, 2009 (UTC)

Eigenlijk vind ik wel dat 'ie kinderen moet krijgen om de dynastie voort te zetten è, maar honderden.. --O u WTB 05:01, November 10, 2009 (UTC)


 * What is a Sickpit-phenomenon? Lars Washington 10:11, November 10, 2009 (UTC)
 * Sickpit-phenomenon = "I don't know" --Bucurestean 15:44, November 11, 2009 (UTC)

Ik stem enkel op rood, omdat in Montfort 75% van de bevolking rood is :P Ik als halve Etsberger ben bruinharig :P --O u WTB 16:17, November 11, 2009 (UTC)
 * Mwah, 'k heb het niet zo met rooien (A) --Bucurestean 16:18, November 11, 2009 (UTC)
 * Gelukkig ben 'k maar niet rood dan è :P --O u WTB 16:19, November 11, 2009 (UTC)
 * Vraagje, wanneer je mocht kiezen, rood of kaal, wat kies je dan? Ik dacht, beter rode Jan dan blode Jan Lars Washington 16:23, November 11, 2009 (UTC)
 * Rood, kun je nog altijd een kleuringje aan geven è :P --O u WTB 16:24, November 11, 2009 (UTC)
 * Ben wél benieuwd hoe Bucurestean erover denkt. Lars Washington 16:25, November 11, 2009 (UTC)
 * Rood of kaal? Ligt eraan, een afro bijv is altijd vet :P --Bucurestean 16:28, November 11, 2009 (UTC)
 * Wat is een afro? --Lars Washington 16:34, November 11, 2009 (UTC)
 * http://images.google.nl/images?hl=nl&source=hp&q=afro&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wi --Bucurestean 16:36, November 11, 2009 (UTC)
 * 16:39, November 11, 2009 (UTC)
 * --Lars Washington 16:41, November 11, 2009 (UTC)
 * --Bucurestean 16:43, November 11, 2009 (UTC)
 * Lol. 16:52, November 11, 2009 (UTC)
 * A red afro? Mm.. --O u WTB 16:54, November 11, 2009 (UTC)
 * Een pruik ?!--Lars Washington 16:57, November 11, 2009 (UTC)
 * :)) --Bucurestean 16:52, November 12, 2009 (UTC)

Sven Plemming
Je doet afbreuk aan de geloofwaardigheid van je gazet als ik eerlijk ben. --O u WTB 18:14, November 12, 2009 (UTC)
 * Freedom of publishing :P --Bucurestean 18:18, November 12, 2009 (UTC)
 * Freedom of speech (Geertje doet dat ook è :P) Je gazet is net zo'n damesroddelmagazijn waar niets in staat :P --O u WTB 18:19, November 12, 2009 (UTC)
 * Or you're the only one to not recognise his death? :D --Bucurestean 18:21, November 12, 2009 (UTC)
 * He can still be active at landj è. --O u WTB 18:21, November 12, 2009 (UTC)
 * If he has died, I doubt he's still editing on landj :P --Bucurestean 18:22, November 12, 2009 (UTC)
 * He hasn't died :P It was just a "list". He has now become a "kluizenaar" è, so he can concentrate on his poetry. --O u WTB 18:23, November 12, 2009 (UTC)
 * So we've found an other buddy? :O --Bucurestean 18:24, November 12, 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes, he shot down his twin brother Mohammed. --O u WTB 18:25, November 12, 2009 (UTC)
 * O, you mean Mohammed El Poponar (what was you're sockpuppet's name? :P) --Bucurestean 18:27, November 12, 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes. Gustav has just confirmed this ;) --O u WTB 18:28, November 12, 2009 (UTC)

Hahahah :D Wat slecht :P --O u WTB 18:41, November 12, 2009 (UTC)
 * :)) --Bucurestean 18:43, November 12, 2009 (UTC)
 * Tabloid or not, this newspaper is a real pleasure to read :) 18:43, November 12, 2009 (UTC)
 * Hahhaha :P --Bucurestean 18:45, November 12, 2009 (UTC)
 * Because of the language mistakes, right ;) And the article about Anfii* --Bucurestean 18:46, November 12, 2009 (UTC)

I don't give a narnja hahaha :P --Bucurestean 19:00, November 12, 2009 (UTC)
 * I think it's a bad quote of the week :P Now I'm off -> swimming :'( --O u WTB 19:03, November 12, 2009 (UTC)
 * :( --Bucurestean 19:05, November 12, 2009 (UTC)
 * I don't agree. It's quite good :) 19:07, November 12, 2009 (UTC)
 * Well, otherwise I wouldn't have put it in my newspaper --Bucurestean 19:09, November 12, 2009 (UTC)

Polls
I like the polls. Perhaps you could make it this newspaper's "trademark". La Quotidienne, news and polls on a daily basis. 19:15, November 12, 2009 (UTC)
 * Not a bad idea. --Bucurestean 19:19, November 12, 2009 (UTC)

Ooops
"Afraid of" toch? --82.171.95.220 20:03, November 12, 2009 (UTC)
 * We (read: OWTB) should actually publish a gedichtenbundel of Anfii! :D --82.171.95.220 20:05, November 12, 2009 (UTC)
 * "Afraid of", indeed. And please guys, no more publishing of things by sockpuppets. Don't remind me of these sockpuppets, if you wish to leave that behind and move on as a free man. 20:10, November 12, 2009 (UTC)
 * (A) "Looks at OWTB, gives him a ;)" --Bucurestean 20:12, November 12, 2009 (UTC)
 * I actually meant a collection of existing poems written by Anfius... he's dead though, how do you expect him to write another one? --Bucurestean 20:13, November 12, 2009 (UTC)
 * You know what I mean guys. What already exists on the Plemming gang, exists; but I don't want you to write about new articles about him, or extend it visibly. Right? He shouldn't even be here, so don't exaggerate. 20:15, November 12, 2009 (UTC)
 * :O Why so suddenly this turning point. Just because I wrote an article in my newspaper? I hated him too, that's why I decided to create his death, like OWTB created his "birth", so we could finally end this Anfial chapter. --Bucurestean 20:19, November 12, 2009 (UTC)
 * Don't misunderstand me. I'm fine with the article (in fact, I think of it as a good solution), but I hope you understand I don't want more and more on the guy. I kinda hate what happened, because it ruined the wiki for more than a year. I don't care too much if you publish some of "his" poems. Just don't elaborate on it. If we want good articles about sth or sb, let's then write new articles, or articles on decent existing people. Begrijp je? 20:22, November 12, 2009 (UTC)
 * Of course, no problem. I didn't mean we should end up with even more articles about Plemming. --Bucurestean 20:23, November 12, 2009 (UTC)
 * Okay, then we understand each other. I don't want you to think you can't write newspaper articles on the Plemming dude or on anything else - I'm perfectly alright with the rumors and stories you write here . 20:24, November 12, 2009 (UTC)

Is this you meant by "Yes, and get kids too, hundreds of kids like the Arabian sheiks"? 20:29, November 12, 2009 (UTC)
 * No, 14 is nothing. There was one Arabian sheik which had 14 wives and about 900 kids. A while ago in the news. Let me search... --Bucurestean 20:33, November 12, 2009 (UTC)
 * I can imagine his |____| having fallen off... 20:35, November 12, 2009 (UTC)
 * The numbers can't be correct, probably around the 200. But I can't find it :S. Anyway, I've found this. It's not a sheikh though ;) --Bucurestean 20:43, November 12, 2009 (UTC)

The text about King Dimitri is incorrect
It is still missing some elementary questions to which should be given an answer. First of all: what has happened to Sigma, of whom we heard a lot in the past, but now remains very silent... Second: what should be the reason for the king to marry at such a young age and so shortly after he has become familiar with Mary Elisabeth Nelson? I think those questions should be answered and then we would have made a lot progress in our investigation è. --O u WTB 07:54, November 21, 2009 (UTC)
 * 1) Sigma?  Lol. Who or what is Sigma?
 * 2) I didn't announce a marriage!  07:56, November 21, 2009 (UTC)
 * Hold you but not of the dumbs è :P
 * Don't worry, we will help you a bit with the marriage if it will come è :P I am critically taking a look at this text and say that you don't have any reason to marry now. --O u WTB 08:04, November 21, 2009 (UTC)
 * Seems we used the name 'Sigma' quite a lot in Yuri-Dimitri-conversations
 * I'm glad you're being critical :D 08:09, November 21, 2009 (UTC)
 * :P --O u WTB 08:12, November 21, 2009 (UTC)
 * OWTB, just compare this newspaper to De Telegraaf and then you'll understand . Even though it's by far the biggest newspaper of Holland, they put things like "Camel fucks owner" on the frontpage. --Bucurestean 08:40, November 21, 2009 (UTC)

Komt er nog een artikel ove rmij? McCrooke 15:02, November 21, 2009 (UTC)
 * Nope, but you have your own newspaper to write in. --Bucurestean 15:03, November 21, 2009 (UTC)
 * But this is a tabloid! McCrooke 15:06, November 21, 2009 (UTC)
 * You are a tabloid... --Bucurestean 15:08, November 21, 2009 (UTC)
 * Hahahahahahahaha. Nice one! 15:14, November 21, 2009 (UTC)
 * Is this a complot against me? McCrooke 15:16, November 21, 2009 (UTC)
 * Just two people feeling the same about you, I suppose... 15:18, November 21, 2009 (UTC)
 * IILl write a article on it at TN McCrooke 15:18, November 21, 2009 (UTC)
 * Great. --Bucurestean 15:20, November 21, 2009 (UTC)

Stoop the the nati-me sentiment
Please stop the anti-me sentiment otherwise i have to start trial against this becuase of Libel Pierlot McCrooke 09:50, December 12, 2009 (UTC)
 * Oh, Mr. McCrooke, don't make a big fuss of it . They only say your are "controversial" and that you have been in prison once or twice. But they also say good things! You are an "international personality"! -- 09:52, December 12, 2009 (UTC)
 * --Bucurestean 13:47, December 12, 2009 (UTC)

LOWIA wont make a chance Pierlot McCrooke 14:54, December 12, 2009 (UTC)

This is really getting very professional here. I like it very much. --Lars Washington 14:58, December 12, 2009 (UTC)
 * Merci --Bucurestean 14:58, December 12, 2009 (UTC)
 * I absolutely agree with Lars!     15:11, December 12, 2009 (UTC)
 * That's because of LOWIA of course --O u WTB 15:26, December 12, 2009 (UTC)

Why does everyone have one vote (prime-minister thing)? --O u WTB 08:22, December 21, 2009 (UTC)
 * No clue. I am getting tired of these stupid polls. Why don't we just wait until January 1? 08:23, December 21, 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm waiting since December 31, 2008. --O u WTB 08:26, December 21, 2009 (UTC)
 * Because it takes so long. And then we have to wait another month... --Bucurestean 10:14, December 21, 2009 (UTC)
 * :'( --O u WTB 10:18, December 21, 2009 (UTC)

We should start a trial against Pierius Pierlot McCrooke 16:27, December 22, 2009 (UTC)

Abou the newest article
I already warned for that admin situation earlier in this month.Pierlot McCrooke 12:55, December 23, 2009 (UTC)


 * You are going to loss this trial, Pierlot. The "red baron" will win. Because it is a nonsense-trial, a "heksenjacht", a personal vendetta of you, mr. McCrooke. Mark my words. Dr. Magnus 13:15, December 23, 2009 (UTC)

There seems to be something wrong with the heading. 08:09, December 24, 2009 (UTC)

Make the news
What should I know to make news, for my charachters William Johnson or Amy Johnson? I have made Amy a blog, but still haven't made the news yet. All I read about is the Baron and the dirty stinking communists, nothing about LOWIA... :) William Johnson 12:29, December 24, 2009 (UTC)
 * You may write anything about LOWIA in my newspaper, if it's relevant enough it may stay. ;) You are always allowed to write in La Quotidienne. --Bucurestean 12:36, December 24, 2009 (UTC)
 * Bucu, Could you write a 'vervolgartikel' of the king article of yesterday? Pierlot McCrooke 12:37, December 24, 2009 (UTC)
 * Why? When I wrote that article I was pretty pissed off, now I'm not so I don't have any inspiration, nor any hunger to write something at the moment ;) --Bucurestean 12:39, December 24, 2009 (UTC)
 * I think the King issue needs more investigation. Ill support the article Pierlot McCrooke

Thanks. I'll try to. If I make some mistakes, then please go over the article to get them out! :) William Johnson 12:38, December 24, 2009 (UTC)
 * Of course, no problem at all. Thank you for participating :) --Bucurestean 12:39, December 24, 2009 (UTC)

Done. I hope you like it! William Johnson 12:44, December 24, 2009 (UTC)
 * It's good ;) --Bucurestean 12:52, December 24, 2009 (UTC)

Wait, I added some more. Now I'm done! :) William Johnson 12:55, December 24, 2009 (UTC)

I hope something news pops up. I am very interested in a Opinon article Pierlot McCrooke 12:11, December 25, 2009 (UTC)

you have to change the newest article Pierlot McCrooke 08:03, January 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * Why didn't you stay alive in the first place? this is kind of a New Testament-like thing! 08:33, January 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * Nothing wrong with the bible è. --O u WTB 08:34, January 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * My death was only rumors Pierlot McCrooke 08:35, January 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * I haven't read the Bible yet, so i couldn't say  08:43, January 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * Ouch èch è :P Sjaam dich jónk :) --O u WTB 08:56, January 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * Fixed the article.  Edward Hannis  [[File:CogHammer.gif]] 14:44, January 9, 2010 (UTC)

Elections
I made a small analysis lately, and I came to some of the same conclusions. For example the fact that your coalition got more votes than the PD - which is no surprise, you have more candidates also. On the other hand, it is true the LD+WLP votes are rather scattered. No reason to panic, I think. The coalition is - whatever the turnout is - a success. Andy is a rising star (look at the Pub!) and the King already announced to include people from all political areas in the Government. Congratulations to the Coalition! -- 10:20, January 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * Guess you're right, then. You too congratulations with your results until now (however I find it a bit early to congratulate each other). They show that the PD has remained stable, and the largest political party, for years. One question though: the King is automatically in the position to negotiate about the formation of the government? It sounds a bit 'scheef', in my opinion. But I certainly do appreciate he is willing to democratize things a little bit. I've read his speeches and thereby his plans and I think Lovia is on the good way. --Bucurestean 11:16, January 10, 2010 (UTC)

Hogere connecties
Iederen weet toch al dat dat nep is. Hoe kan je noue zoiets geloven? Ik heb die niet, wan tik ben maar een kind. Magnus geloof tAesopos. Pierlot McCrooke 09:02, January 12, 2010 (UTC)


 * Please speak English. Besides, if this is about the Interpol thingy, I believe the story. It freaks me out, seriously. You are unblockable... it explains a lot I must say, but I don't get it completely. 194.171.76.11 10:42, January 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * It isn true Pierlot McCrooke 11:05, January 12, 2010 (UTC)

It isn't true? So that means Aesopos is lying? Somehow I find that hard to believe.. 194.171.76.11 11:09, January 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * Not it isn true. I have no higher connections. Aesopos is just seeking random sources (that is typical Aesopinma) Pierlot McCrooke 11:17, January 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * Please log in. --Bucurestean 13:54, January 12, 2010 (UTC)

Newest article
Does the image appear on your screen? Because I can't see no image. --Bucurestean 18:45, January 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * No, the election poster is too big. --O u WTB 18:47, January 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * Ok :S --Bucurestean 18:48, January 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * No, the image seems to be corrupt. --O u WTB 18:51, January 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yep. 08:16, January 13, 2010 (UTC)

Jongens het lijkt de privé hier wel :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 18:01, January 16, 2010 (UTC)
 * Sssstttt. Overigens kan ik mij wel vinden in het nieuwe artikel over Donia Pierlot McCrooke 18:05, January 16, 2010 (UTC)

Be careful in using the words 'enormous'. If I'm not mistaken, Pierlot or Arthur aren't leftist at all, and Yuri is very moderately center-left. What I do agree with, is that Yuri should be - as many people, including our dear friend Pierlot - more careful with the Donias. 18:58, January 16, 2010 (UTC)


 * No need to spread any more anti-Donia propoganda... I am back again and this time I am here to stay. I have definetely learned my lesson comrades! The power of democracy and my comrades Scanderson, Serov and Owen will bring the LCP to a new level of power, influence and success! Let us make Lovia into a socialist state! Dr. Magnus 20:43, January 16, 2010 (UTC)

Cool
WHAT A SEXY NEWSPAPER!!!!!!!!!! I'm friends with Mangus but not really with the party.

I'll prob take my name off the members list. put that in your newspaper. HA.LOL

From- Marcus Villanova

UMMM... love you and the newspaper it's great!!! but to the low popularity of the league i had to delay the first game =[. But i have all the stats done and even know the two playoff teams.

ALSO, i am a good citizen, unlike Dr. mangus. All intensions have been good!

From- Marcus Villanova

Communisy Traiters
I just read thet whey were banned and they got me to join saying the PM was a dictator they should all hang Owen1983 11:57, January 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * Interesting. --Bucurestean 12:49, January 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * Verrry interesting. -- 17:04, January 27, 2010 (UTC)

Comrade Owen, what are you saying now? Don't talk gibberish. Don't talk nonsense. The LCP has reformed itself and has a steadily growing ammount of (active) members. We have no need for traitors among our own ranks. You are a trusted member of the LCP, comrade Owen, and one of the first to join in. Do not make any hasty decisions and do not make any wrong decisions. Dr. Magnus 14:53, January 26, 2010 (UTC)

Longer
maybe you could write a longer article on the reform proposals? Pierlot McCrooke 10:46, February 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * Did you like my article? :P --Bucurestean 10:49, February 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yes. BTW, states could become useless with one of the proposed reforms Pierlot McCrooke 10:51, February 28, 2010 (UTC)

Wait a sec... "ruled by the political elite"...? Smells like Anti-Cabalism... Dr. Magnus 12:14, February 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * I didn't mean that, I was also talking about myself, and you. --Bucurestean 12:15, February 28, 2010 (UTC)

Okay then... Well, you made a fine point. But the law will probably pass anyway since it has a majority of votes in favour of it... Dr. Magnus 12:16, February 28, 2010 (UTC)

News
This latest news about the possible upcoming clash of the political titans (Right vs Left, Monarchists vs Republicans) is very interesting... Indeed, this could be a major political bloodbath, a serious political turning point, so to speak! Exciting, isn't it? Dr. Magnus 17:53, March 1, 2010 (UTC)
 * And maybe even a civil war :O --Bucurestean 17:56, March 1, 2010 (UTC)

A civil war? No, I find that hard to imagine! Which parties could be so violent? I could only think of IGP, but one member cannot call for a war, look what happened when Misterrr tried that! A civil war would be a great adventure, though... And a nice new chapter in our history! Dr. Magnus 18:02, March 1, 2010 (UTC)
 * No, I didn't mean it that way, but IF this gap between both sides becomes really big and the conflict won't be resolved, a civil war could certainly break out. However, I hope it won't happen, but it's to Left to consider if a heksenjacht is needed to eliminate rightist and Republican politicians. --Bucurestean 18:05, March 1, 2010 (UTC)
 * As they say: l'histoire se répète. An I don't like this situation... x_O O_x, I'm off now. (sad) --Lars Washington 18:07, March 1, 2010 (UTC)
 * Republicans are acting good this time Pierlot McCrooke 18:08, March 1, 2010 (UTC)
 * There is no need to eliminate anybody. We are a full pluralist democracy. As it is, people in support of the monarch (or at least: not in support of a republic created by the people of your movement) form a wide majority and there hardly is a real dichotomy, as you suggested. I suppose leftists, liberals, monarchists, or anybody else feels that a republicanist opposition is okay, and should be respected. 18:13, March 1, 2010 (UTC)

Well, I think most republicans are, in general, honest and honourable people. But their is one major exception... I want peace and stability, not war, anger and hostility! Let us all dine in the great halls of Donia Castle and set aside our differences for once. Dr. Magnus 18:18, March 1, 2010 (UTC)

Title badly chosen
In fact, the majority still is progressive. Also, it should be "rightist party" (singular) as you have no united them. 14:54, April 2, 2010 (UTC)

Article
I have already said to dimitri that we could use the Kenson system Pierlot McCrooke 16:20, April 23, 2010 (UTC)

Sorry only been here a short time but what's the kenson System?Marcus Villanova 20:02, April 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * Everyone can vote in congress then Pierlot McCrooke 20:11, April 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * not trying to afend but that sounds really dumb.Marcus Villanova[[Image:Flag of Lovia Small.png|border|20px]] 19:32, April 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * Some kind if direct democracy then? Jon Johnson 21:20, April 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * The Kensonsysteem was a system in Newport (Libertas) which meant that every citizen automatically was a member of the congress. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 04:23, April 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * Meaning that every citizen could vote, and had direct power, so a 'micro'-direct democracy Jon Johnson 21:30, April 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * More democratic, sure, but I also see some issues here. It will take a whole lot longer to vote proposals since a lot of citizens simply aren't active enough. Also, it might cause new users to suddenly appear whenever a controversial proposal needs votes. Harold Freeman 05:33, April 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * No, 'cause a vote would only last for several days and as you need several days to get citizenship, it won't be such big problems. The real big problem is that some people, unfortunately to say so, can't be trusted enough to let them decide for the future of the country. That's why we need elections. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 06:52, April 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * @ O u WTB, you are correct, and it is sad to know this... --Lars Washington 07:35, April 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * It is indeed. That is probably why some men in the course of history chose to create an "enlightened" aristocratic or authoritarian power. 14:24, April 30, 2010 (UTC)

Nazis in Lovia
Seems to be a growing problem Free Lutheran Association, Drabo, this now POLICE STEP UP!!!Marcus Villanova 21:15, May 11, 2010 (UTC)

Oh i see they caught the Nazis well then we should probaly create a page about this trend.Marcus Villanova 21:21, May 11, 2010 (UTC)

This is all just childsplay compared to what Hessel Doorian and the IGP have in store for non-whites, race traitors and communists... Grab your guns and prepare yourselves for some old-school lynching and race motivated terror. I bid you goodbye, Drabo13 11:36, May 12, 2010 (UTC)

Article
Idea for a article about the recent political crisis? Pierlot McCrooke 20:44, May 13, 2010 (UTC)
 * I think it is fairly important Pierlot McCrooke 21:00, May 13, 2010 (UTC)

Amish
very nice article! I go to Lancaster PA every December very interesting people!Marcus Villanova 13:42, May 16, 2010 (UTC)
 * Interestin g k indeedBucurestean 16:02, May 16, 2010 (UTC)
 * A good thing that Lovia is a very open country. Any other government would send them back because they didn't apply for citizenship.  06:43, May 17, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yep. We're a bunch of lax people :P Bucurestean 13:52, May 17, 2010 (UTC)

Friend or foe, a paycheck will do!
Mostly people get paid when their fictional writing are published. 08:02, May 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * No publication without alimentation? Percival E. Galahad 08:03, May 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * Ah now I get it. Here is an orange  Bucu 08:20, May 22, 2010 (UTC)

Objects? I really wrote that? :| --Bucu 11:48, May 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * Seemingly :) 11:54, May 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * I may have started this discussion but I'm again misreading everything, I think. 12:55, May 22, 2010 (UTC)

What about getting rid of that old election poster in the right hand side column? 17:11, May 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * I was also thinking of that this afternoon, but then I found out that I was too lazy... also nice weather in Belgia? Bucu 17:13, May 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * Perfect weather. Really hot, in fact. 17:17, May 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * Monday it's going to be cold, and Tuesday it will be like... freezing :P Bucu 17:29, May 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * Oh really? But that's Utrecht . Wááy north xD. 17:31, May 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * I live in the Utrechter Mountains, y'know ;) Bucu 17:32, May 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * Haha . In a country like the Netherlands, every heuvelrug is like Himalaya ^^ 17:34, May 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * Except fro Limburg* --O u WTBsjrief-mich 17:35, May 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * Net moest ik al die kutheuvels op fietsen om bij een vriend te komen... pokkewerk :P Bucu 17:36, May 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * You mean those kuiltjes and mesthoopjes? :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 17:37, May 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * I find it interesting that in a country like yours, where people from above the Moerdijk differ so much from those underneath it, and where the Randstad is totally different from - say - Groningen or Friesland, that you guys don't have "institutional crises" as we in Belgium have every year (twice). That is interesting :) 17:38, May 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * Eh, languages, nothing to do about it :P Bucu 17:39, May 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * Those outside regions are kept safe using beer :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 17:40, May 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * We have beer too . In fact, Belgium hás beer. The Netherlands don't. They have Heineken. Which is. Water. 17:41, May 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * (That's what people say in Belgium. I don't drink beer ) 17:41, May 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * In Limburg we have alfa, brandt, wittem, hertog-jan, etc. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 17:42, May 22, 2010 (UTC)

Nice try, but I'ven't said a single thing on that one :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 18:43, May 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * Bucu 18:45, May 22, 2010 (UTC)

Archives
Where are they? Marcus Villanova 17:21, May 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * La Quotidienne/Archive 2009 & La Quotidienne/Archive 2010 Bucu 07:10, May 24, 2010 (UTC)

Compliment
An interesting article! I was actually hoping Liberals would find new strength after this period. I don't mean to insult Ilava, but without him the party is more what it says it is: "a democratic, classical liberal party", and not a mixture of Washingtonian centrists, darkblue liberals and conservatives. Perhaps, with some more input of the now rather absent Freeman and the future MOTC Galahad, you might revive the LD. I would certainly like that. I am at good terms with the leftists and libertarians, but I believe in pluralism. Anyway, I can't solve this with silly advice; you guys will have to pull yourselves together after June 1. Think bright, I'd say. Do what PD once did: have a party congress, think things through, a think tank perhaps, and good pragmatic policies in Congress. There's no use in splitting hairs over some policy differences within one party: rather spend your time fighting for the thing all you libs want: more freedom, a stable and free economy and lots of civil rights. 17:17, May 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * He ain't gonna return Dimi. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 17:28, May 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * I think tank is so already done, Dimitri. I'm going to work on a full party program and a new 'élan'. We definitely need to work on our appeal, maybe the LD should too?  10:34, May 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * About the 'disaster of communist rule' and 'a socialist Lovia': the CPL.nm accepts democracy and pluralism. The free trade with the US does need some minor changes, like energy for example, but we wont close of the entire economy. Don't forget we have a - real! - to-be economist in our ranks!  10:57, May 27, 2010 (UTC)

Burning car
Is it neccesary to have the same image of the burning car on there twice? Drabo13 10:51, May 27, 2010 (UTC)

Article Donia
Why did you not write an article about the death of August Magnus Donia? He was a very infamous and controversial Lovian. Pierlot McCrooke 15:39, August 9, 2010 (UTC)

The only reason no one really cares is that he left already and we said are good byes when he first left in May, then he came back as a fascist and got banned, and then just stayed for a week and then left. Marcus Villanova WLP 15:52, August 9, 2010 (UTC)


 * You only die once, and once you die there is no turning back. BastardRoyale 16:12, August 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * Not if your Jesus! Marcus Villanova WLP [[Image:Flag of Lovia Small.png|border|20px]] 16:13, August 9, 2010 (UTC)

I think you can hardly compare Jesus to a deranged fascist baron. BastardRoyale 16:17, August 9, 2010 (UTC)


 * I didn't? Did I, i didn't mean to? Marcus Villanova WLP [[Image:Flag of Lovia Small.png|border|20px]] 16:19, August 9, 2010 (UTC)

Lol... Anyways, I understand McCrooke's point. Its not so often a country has a fascist-communist-criminal baron who dies from a medieval weapon. Thats material a newspaper can use to write articles full of mystery and conspiracy theories. BastardRoyale 16:24, August 9, 2010 (UTC)

Huummmm i was thinking about making a Gosip, fake news Newspaper would you help make it with me? You know healines like "Aliens come to Lovia and drop malet on Baron's head" Or "King or Secert Alien Moster?" Fun for everyone! Marcus Villanova WLP 16:28, August 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * There is the inactive The Frame (outside) which I founded a while ago. If you want to help me revive it, you may. It is even written by a mysterious person who hides behind a fake name... 16:31, August 9, 2010 (UTC)


 * Sounds like an awesome idea! Is it possible a song starts playing when you click on the page? Or make the page in some crazy colour. We could make something Lovia has never seen before. BastardRoyale 16:32, August 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * I wouldn't tempet with the color, the gray shades go well with the mysterious image. I'm not sure about the song thing. 16:33, August 9, 2010 (UTC)

@alex/bucu
I like your style of political analiysis! Maybe go to work for the news? Very good! Marcus Villanova 20:23, October 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * must agree! 20:41, October 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * and it's not beacuse Walden is winning but the facts and I actually said to myself "Damn I never thought of that." Marcus Villanova 20:49, October 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * i'm being quoted quite a lot lately  21:10, October 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * Well, with 50% of the votes, being party leader of the largest party, you may call yourself the most important politician of the moment :P Bucu 21:11, October 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * martha is our leader now . she's quite brilliant too. 21:12, October 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * Lol, didn't even notice she'd become leader Bucu 21:14, October 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * unanymous vote though :) 21:15, October 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yep she's doing very well. Marcus Villanova 16:22, October 9, 2010 (UTC)

It appears to me...
...that Oceana reminds me of the south in USA 1860's "You better do what we want or else." also it seems like there's a possible civil war...please don't Marcus Villanova 16:41, October 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * You are a relatively new user. You don't known that we have had a civil war two years ago :) --O u WTBsjrief-mich 16:45, October 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * I remember the civil wars in Libertas, they were disastrous and completely utterly destroyed the nation. They brought nothing but horror, murder and destruction, even genocide on guinea pigs and gypsies. Dr. Magnus 16:47, October 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * @OWTB - I've seen past pages and yeah I understand that.
 * @Magnus - I've seen that to are you joking on the Guinea pigs and gypsies thing? Marcus Villanova 16:51, October 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * No, Magnus is right. We even have "labour camps" in Libertas. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 16:53, October 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * Marcus, read this, please. There was a civil war with murder, rape, torture, genocide, destruction and terrorist acts. Bombings, guerilla warfare, and all horrible, unspeakable acts. Some guy even ate the hearts of his enemies. It was really evil. It destroyed Libertas completely. Dr. Magnus 16:56, October 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * i see...But people still edit that site so I guess it's not completly dead right? or is just dead and people just clean it up? Marcus Villanova 16:58, October 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * :p *raises fist in the air* Wikistad is indeed not dead (yet?)! The real reason I came on this Talk-page though is because I wanted to complement Bucu on those graphics/statistics, making politics a bit more bearable for people like me :p K_gitaar.png Echo cho 17:59, October 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * I guess. Marcus Villanova 18:00, October 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * Mersi! :) Bucu 18:02, October 9, 2010 (UTC)

It's really a lame technique. Reminds me of Dedecker's campaign in the most recent Belgian elections. He said he would step down if results were bad - and he already knew they'd be bad. What was the result: people voted for those other rightist populists, instead of for him. Funny thing. 11:06, October 13, 2010 (UTC)
 * I believe it is due to social change that progressives do well in Oceana: the archaic farming society with its typical way of production has made room for better educated citizens and economic (instead of symbolic) trade. It is a general law in demographics that a wealthier community tends to be less traditional. This loss of traditional values will always trigger a radicalization of the conservative core. 13:31, October 13, 2010 (UTC)
 * I am especially surprised by the bitterness of the Right. Nobody has won yet, and OWTB is doing pretty fine. People do have reasons not to vote for him. He's absent from many political debates, he's conservative as shit, has queer convictions (haha). On the other hand, he knows the state. Sure. I'd support him too. I did support him, in the 2010 Feds. He garnered one of my three votes. There was something different, back then, though. OWTB was open-minded and willing to reform. He wanted a new Lovia, I thought. What he now wants is a Lovia as old as we have never had one. Regressive traditionalism, shall we say? 13:45, October 13, 2010 (UTC)
 * And that is partially my fault; the climate has turned more and more progressive and we make him feel as if he stands alone. All what those conservatives really need as a big, warm hug. 13:48, October 13, 2010 (UTC)
 * I know a guy who's a great hugger when you're out at sea, on a cold boat. 13:49, October 13, 2010 (UTC)
 * He thought I'd looked scared but actually I was just jealous.  13:52, October 13, 2010 (UTC)
 * Really? I didn't see that. Perhaps because I was suffering a hard time from hypothermia ;)  13:54, October 13, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yuri, your story about I believe it is due to social change that progressives etc is - unfortunately - misplaced. The difference is that some conservative/right people are inactive now (Marius/Ben) and some new left/progressive people have just bought their homes in Oceana (Censuree/Intothewild/Horton11/Villanova). And yes, we need a big, warm hug :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 14:49, October 13, 2010 (UTC)

Dimitri, I have not changed a single thing. You probably remember me at that time that I didn't want to give up the states back then and I'm still not willing to give up Oceana. Oceana is a life work (sort of :P). Sure, I'm conservative as shit :P but I am also open-minded. As I've expressed earlier on: I'm willing to co-operate with Andy, so also his environmentalist views are realised. The reason why I fight this hard is because I've been waiting two years to get this spot back. And about your remark ''He wanted a new Lovia, I thought. What he now wants is a Lovia as old as we have never had one.'' That's nonsense. On a national level I am very happy with the way things are, BUT on state level I am also happy with the way things are (that's the reason why I'm not a member of the Nationalistiski Parti), I only wish that Oceana remains Oceana. So, I'm still willing to reform (take a look at my recent Lovian Dollar issue in the First Chamber, that's a reform!) --O u WTBsjrief-mich 14:34, October 13, 2010 (UTC)
 * I know that. The thing is that Oceana does need some change, and I doubt whether it'll come from you. 15:21, October 13, 2010 (UTC)
 * Well, what kind of changes do you propose? --O u WTBsjrief-mich 16:53, October 13, 2010 (UTC)
 * Andy would be able to propose those changes as a deputy; he does not need governorship. Dr. Magnus 16:57, October 13, 2010 (UTC)
 * Anybody can propose anything. Only the Gov can implement. 17:56, October 13, 2010 (UTC)
 * We know, but what kind of things do you think need to be changed? --O u WTBsjrief-mich 18:02, October 13, 2010 (UTC)

Role of the King?
Since HRH Dimitri I came to power he gradually gave more room to democracy (Congress, various reforms, etc.) and that is a tendency I believe we all support. It might be time to start thinking about the next step: a non-continuation of the dynasty. This is not a call for revolution or 'big change now'. I just feel we have to discuss the transition towards a republic when our current monarch his term is ended. 09:35, October 16, 2010 (UTC)
 * When he dies or gives up the throne his eldest child succeeds him. And will have, in my ideal picture, a mere symbolical function and lacks real power. Dr. Magnus 09:40, October 16, 2010 (UTC)
 * I think we finalize our already strong democracy and end the line after Dimi. Monarchy is not compatible with democratic socialism, which is the goal of the CPL.nm program. 09:43, October 16, 2010 (UTC)
 * End the line? As long as he fathers any children whatsoever, the line goes on and there will always be pretenders to the throne. The line can only end when he would, like, die before consumating his marriage. Unless all Royal Family Members would be on a boat trip together and the boat would sink, the line continues to excist. Dr. Magnus 09:45, October 16, 2010 (UTC)
 * You forget that in Lovia Congress is the center of all power, the only institution that represents the people. If we vote for a republic that is what we will get. 09:47, October 16, 2010 (UTC)
 * Along with an angry monarch who still has, as an administrator and founder of the website, the most power in the nation. If a republic is to be formed it would be wise to involve him in the process of getting it done. Honestly, I still feel a monarchy is a fine thing to have (I'll always be a monarchist) and that it sets us apart and defines our cultural identity as Lovians. Kingship, however, should be without any power and be a mere symbolical role. Dr. Magnus 09:52, October 16, 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm pretty sure Dimi favors a republic over a monarchy any day. His role as King is a heritage from the troubled days in Libertas. I don't seek to put Dimi down with our democratic force, but I openly say I don't want to see his son, daughter or nephew on the throne. Lovia is developed enough for a sustainable republic. 09:57, October 16, 2010 (UTC)
 * First Oceana has to be prepared for modern age, by Oos Wes Ilava. I trust opon his ability to guide our most conservative state by the hand to democracy. Only he can make it happen. Then in 2013 all of Lovia can be united as a republic. Now is too soon. Dr. Magnus 10:08, October 16, 2010 (UTC)

Dimitri indeed favors a republican system, but not a presidential system as we see in America and France. On the other hand, I appreciate the advantages of a monarchy, living in one. In a country such as Belgium, a more or less ceremonial monarchy has a couple of advantages, most importantly guaranteeing state stability. I believe the monarchy has saved our country from breaking in two... What Yuri says is true. We need to emancipate Lovia more every day, and expand democracy and freedoms and rights. Slowly, of course. Any attempt to do it quickly, has failed and will fail again.

What concerns the next monarch: as the Constitution states, my brother Prince Alexander would become the next King, if I die or if I abdicate. Furthermore, as the Constitution states, the CONGRESS (always the Congress) can abolish the monarchy with a two thirds majority. If you would be unhappy with King Alexander I, you can abolish the monarchy in Congress. Simple as pie. It's up to Congress, which has the ONLY REAL POWER in Lovia.

I do believe the monarchy has some good effects on Lovia. I insist on maintaining the monarchy until the People of Lovia can take full responsibility for their political actions, and until the monarchy and legal system have developed into well-functioning, purely democratic mechanisms, by the PEOPLE'S ACTION. At present, all Constitutional reform concerning state structure and monarchy has been written and proposed by... me.

At last: Oos Wes Ilava preparing for a modern age? Must be kidding me. The guy supports the SGP and opposes female politicians. 13:55, October 16, 2010 (UTC)
 * When will then be the day our nation becomes a republic, if ever? And if it happens will you then leave Lovia and your former subjects behind, or stay in a strictly ceremonial function? Another option would be to keep the royal family but relieve them of whatever few duties they may still have. You yourself could then actively participate in politics, join a party and even run for prime minister. After all: you would no longer have to be neutral then. As a monarch, you should be neutral. Dr. Magnus 14:17, October 16, 2010 (UTC)
 * What should be, or what will be, is entirely in the hands of the people. If Congress decides to replace the system by a presidential, then they can do that. If they decide to limit monarchial power to mere ceremonial functions, they can. 14:44, October 16, 2010 (UTC)
 * But all of that does not stop you from caring for and working on this site, possibly behind the scenes, does it? No matter what you may think of me, I still would feel the loss of the old generation a big loss to the site. I don't think, with all due respect, the likes of Marcus and Horton are up to the challenge of running the site, that's all. If you would abdicate, is a political career an option for you? Dr. Magnus 14:49, October 16, 2010 (UTC)
 * We shouldn't abollish monarchy in Lovia. I like it ! Marcus Villanova 15:13, October 16, 2010 (UTC)
 * @Pierius: I know, and that's why we (the old generation) are still around. I have no idea what I'd do if I quit. Anyway, I'm not stopping yet.
 * @Marcus: Well, it has some advantages doesn't it? And it's quite nice for a fictional country . I agree it's not the best option, but for Lovia, it has proven better than all those republican wikis that failed. 15:26, October 16, 2010 (UTC)
 * True. We have a great admin if we didn't then I would hate monarchy!! It keeps things in line! Marcus Villanova 15:31, October 16, 2010 (UTC)

@dimitri:You should have encouraged people to write proposals. But maybe the problem is that too much of the site is already voorgekauwd by you and Yuri Pierlot McCrooke 15:35, October 16, 2010 (UTC)
 * We encouraged all good proposals. Walden has been doing some great things lately, without me or Yuri having anything to do with that. It's about what you are willing to do. (Reminds me of JFK: "Ask not what your country can do for you...") 07:23, October 17, 2010 (UTC)

Clash of the titans
I love the article but it sounds like the future will be really sensational. Sorry if I disappoint anyone but Walden and the CPL.nm have a history of close coöperation. Also, the two parties have very similar programs and supported various proposals together. As for our communist strategy: I consider Walden to be a full partner of our leftist project and not - as this article suggests - an opponent. I think the election outcome is most favorable. 05:54, October 19, 2010 (UTC)
 * I believe that Walden and CPL.nm can work out together, as they do now, but I also know that it would be favorable to Lovia, in the long run, if the two parties do bare teeth a little. If there is no competition between the parties, (where they would fight to make decisions that would please potential voters) then you would have a political monopoly. And if the king were part of this party, then this country would look like North Korea.
 * Side note: Cooperation is a bizarre word in its pronunciation, but it is pronounced so because there is a syllable break between the O's. Contrariwise (Looking-glass reference for 'ya), words like coop do not. There is, however, no real way of knowing if a word will be separated or not. Edward Hannis [[File:CogHammer.gif]] 18:12, October 19, 2010 (UTC)
 * yeah what's up with the umlaut? Am I spelling that right?
 * @Hannis - If ..Reference for 'ya is suppose to sound like sharah plain when you say it I quit...jk! But I hat that smirk little capitialist whore. Sarah Palin's latest great quote "I can see 2012 from my house." Marcus Villanova 22:52, October 19, 2010 (UTC)
 * @Hannis: we commies clearly have a different goal than Walden, though North Korea isn't quite the example. The CPL.nm is content-wise very much like Walden, we just are a little bolder in the statements and feel the need to integrate all views in a theoretic framework. I however do promise more competition in the next Federal Elections. It is time to get on with the (r)evolution.  06:13, October 20, 2010 (UTC)
 * Off topic: spelling cooperation with a diaeresis is dated, though probably sensible. Are they used that way in Dutch? --Semyon 12:22, October 20, 2010 (UTC)
 * It's 'coöperatie' in Dutch, so yes. Otherwise we would pronounce it like a 'double o' (open vowel or what is it called?) 12:42, October 20, 2010 (UTC)
 * Long vowel, innit? I think open vowels are ones made with the tongue low down in the mouth. --Semyon 12:48, October 20, 2010 (UTC)
 * Dimitri knows this (or he should), but you got the point. 12:50, October 20, 2010 (UTC)
 * What you are referring to, must be "free vowels", as opposed to "checked vowels". It is kind of hard, however, to compare the free vowel 'o' with an English case, since there is no plain 'o' sound in British English. I am not at all sure about American, though. -- 15:29, October 20, 2010 (UTC)
 * I am also sure Dimitri or Oos Wes know this better. -- 15:29, October 20, 2010 (UTC)
 * @Medvedev: I was referring to a dominating party controlling a nation, not the fact that it was communist. Communism is perfectly fine for me. I don't agree, but I accept. Edward Hannis [[File:CogHammer.gif]] 22:39, October 20, 2010 (UTC)
 * Btw, the reference was for Though the Looking-Glass and what Alice saw there; Tweedledum and Tweedledee. Edward Hannis [[File:CogHammer.gif]] 22:41, October 20, 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm sure most of us got the reference (or at least we should). I guess what you were referring to is the dominant position of single set of ideas, like the 'cultural hegemony' put forth by Gramsci. 16:17, October 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * Alice in Wonderland and Gramsci in the same discussion. Sweet. Rock_guitarist.png Echo cho 07:57, October 24, 2010 (UTC)

Horton
To me the thing that matters the most (or even the only thing that matters) in this case is the fact that Horton indeed seems very hard to reach (maybe he's on that chat I sometimes read about, I wouldn't know, I'm never on any chat myself). And, Horton, I hope you read this, I'm not trying to patronize you, I just want to emphasize that it is essential to understand that a wiki in general and a wiki like this especially is a community. It's okay if one prefers working on his or her own, but why would he or she join a community and then hardly communicate at all? Just a thought, my thought. Echo cho 07:57, October 24, 2010 (UTC)

Eduardo
It is cerveza so it are not snacks! If you want we can have a short diálogo in the bosque, ¡gan'tersito! Don't call me names, cuz you will be in serious peligro. ¿Prende? DaddyYankee 14:37, October 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * As civilised men, the only proper way of dealing with the insults of our enemies is to denounce them. For example, in your own newspaper. You could politely make your point, in English. Dr. Magnus 14:42, October 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yeah, agreed.Marcus Villanova 14:43, October 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * I don't listen to my enemigos! I won't let them distract me! DaddyYankee 14:47, October 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * Did you read the thing? I'm criticizing you for bringing up fake ideas of threats, talking in a mix of English and Spanish, and I should have maybe added something about grammar. It is cerveza so it are not snacks? You're making this too easy. If you really want to entertain yourself, and make my job as journalist easier, talk to me on my talk page. Please do so within the next two hours, if you have any desire to maintain your massive ego whatsoever. Edward Hannis [[File:CogHammer.gif]] 01:01, October 29, 2010 (UTC)

Good writing, Edward! 09:11, October 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * you're a great journalist, colleague! I'm tempted to say you're lovia's best journalist of the moment... 15:58, November 1, 2010 (UTC)
 * As if that would mean anything, taken that there are only three, but I am most humbled. I still think the best part is the comedic counterpart to it (captions). Reminds me of The Economist, if you guys have that o'er yonder. Edward Hannis [[File:CogHammer.gif]] 23:33, November 1, 2010 (UTC)
 * "Yonder" we can get quite everything . Me myself, I'm subscribed to TIME. 08:14, November 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * TIME, eh? Darn foreigners. Back in 'merica, we read 'dem quality books. Like Shotguns Weekly and such. Ahem, redneck jokes aside, I personally read sci-fi short-story magazines, especially the ones where Matheson used to write for. Most of the material I'm putting in Hello? is based to a certain degree on Matheson's work. Guy's a genius. You've heard of his most famous work, undoubtedly. I am Legend. Here's the quote from the last words of the book.
 * A coughing chuckle filled his throat. He turned and leaned against the wall while he swallowed the pills. Full circle, he thought while the final lethargy crept into his limbs. Full circle. A new terror born in death, a new superstition entering the unassailable fortress of forever.
 * I am Legend. {MATHESON 170)
 * Edward Hannis [[File:CogHammer.gif]] 04:16, November 3, 2010 (UTC)

Self Sufficient
You're right about the Self Sufficient Party theory, I think. There's one thing, however, you forgot: the PM must choose the number of MOTCs that will be elected in the upcoming. In other words: if he chooses 18 MOTCs, and eventually 22 candidates run, it is not at all "obvious" that the Self Sufficient Parties will get all their members elected. 08:42, November 20, 2010 (UTC)
 * As PM I'm going to make these elections interesting; large Congresses are often chaotic and need a lot of time to generate legislation. I don't have chosen a number yet but I do know I don't want it to become bigger than it is today... 08:45, November 20, 2010 (UTC)
 * Really? Hm. It's gonna get tough for some people indeed, then. 08:47, November 20, 2010 (UTC)
 * With the growing number of contributors and the large number of congressman who aren't very active after their election (to say the least) I'd say make congress larger. ;) Dr. Magnus 09:02, November 20, 2010 (UTC)
 * I think it is better to have a decent, working Congress of say 12 members than a large one that takes endless discussions and voting periods. Whatever the number is going to be, it will lie between 10 and 16. 09:14, November 20, 2010 (UTC)
 * And it'll a round number. How about 16? Dr. Magnus 09:20, November 20, 2010 (UTC)
 * What do you do to break a tie? The Constitution doesn't say what happens if you have a tie in both votes and major votes, if I read correctly. (From Article XIII) Edward Hannis [[File:CogHammer.gif]] 20:28, November 20, 2010 (UTC)
 * The idea was that you give precedence to the 'highest order of votes', a few examples:
 * Joseph (2 major votes, 1 minor vote) vs. Alberto (1 major vote, 2 minor votes) --> Joseph wins
 * Tanya (3 major votes, 2 minor votes) vs. Christine (3 major votes, 1 minor vote, 2 favor votes) --> Tanya wins
 * Rudy (3 major votes, 2 minor votes) vs. Marianne (3 major votes, 2 minor votes) --> real tie
 * Only the last situation is problematic, because we couldn't think of a fair system to decide who should be given the seat in Congress. I think I'd change the amount of allowed MOTC by one if that is possible. 07:58, November 21, 2010 (UTC)

Article
Now that's what I call a good article, like it very much. May the Lovian police continue to preserve the freedom and security of our site and let me do what I do best: bust some criminals! Dr. Magnus 21:40, November 25, 2010 (UTC)


 * Ha yes very good. Marcus Villanova Music is Life.Lean Forward.Walden 21:41, November 25, 2010 (UTC)

I'm already providing some good quotes for the next article about me. Just to make it easier for the journalists! I'm such a nice guy. Dr. Magnus 22:07, November 25, 2010 (UTC)


 * I guess we all are then! Marcus Villanova Music is Life.Lean Forward.Walden 22:12, November 25, 2010 (UTC)

Most of us! :) Dr. Magnus 22:23, November 25, 2010 (UTC)
 * Magnus, feel free to send me a few quotes if you think you've done something newsworthy. I think you have the greatet importance on the news nowadays, behind maybe the King. Edward Hannis [[File:CogHammer.gif]] 00:17, November 26, 2010 (UTC)

I feel deeply honoured, Hannis. Dr. Magnus 10:57, November 26, 2010 (UTC)


 * LD doesn't exist anymore it's the LU...! Even though it has almost the same people and is just as unactive it matters=]Marcus Villanova Music is Life.Lean Forward.Walden 15:14, November 26, 2010 (UTC)

I said something different
Not that it was against me but against walden Pierlot McCrooke 17:18, November 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * And there was no deal with me. I have never spoken a waldener via irc except for marcus for who i am sure he isnt involved. I you dont think its true, please contact a other walderner Pierlot McCrooke 17:21, November 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * It's quite clear you're defending yourself, not Walden. Speaking as a Waldener, and someone with at least half a brain. Edward Hannis [[File:CogHammer.gif]] 17:22, November 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * There was no deal with me. Pierlot McCrooke 17:23, November 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * You were very probably involved in this deal. All evidence points towards you, Latin himself hinted to me that you were culprit. The only question is, who did you work with? Edward Hannis [[File:CogHammer.gif]] 17:30, November 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * I have only once or twice seen marcus at irc (when he wasnt a waldener) I have never seen andy or the others at irc. If you dont believe ask it the other waldeners Pierlot McCrooke 17:33, November 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * The other person you must've met with is not a Waldener. He would be of any other party, but not independent, and not Walden. Edward Hannis [[File:CogHammer.gif]] 17:35, November 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * Ask all those.. BTW the only lovian persons ive met on irc were Marcus and Sjors and i have noever discussed about lovian politics with them. Marcus omly about drabo trial, and Sjors about sveral subjects such as inkscape an d harvian, and magnus btw also about lovian politics but mostly things with are other things (no deals) Pierlot McCrooke 17:41, November 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * Bucu begs to differ. Edward Hannis [[File:CogHammer.gif]] 17:46, November 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * I have been involved with that housebuying around elections, but not with this. And do you do if every thing from bucu about this irc conversation about a deal is fake? There is a small possibility it is Pierlot McCrooke 17:53, November 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * Just as small as the possibility that he's telling the truth. Edward Hannis [[File:CogHammer.gif]] 18:15, November 27, 2010 (UTC)

Fine article!
That's one helluva fine article you wrote there, Hannis! I must say I'm impressed by your journalist qualities, you always manage to stay "on top of things", so to speak! We make news, you deliver! Much better then my attempt at writing down a piece of journalism at Hurbanova Novine but then again, it was my first try at this. Dr. Magnus 20:28, November 27, 2010 (UTC)

Does this really matter?
I really did have a convo with Mr.Latin under the supposed thought that it was private but the guy must not be trusted. Yes I fully admit that the deal stated.


 * During the 2010 State Elections I would vote for Mr. Llava
 * A) Beacuse i sorta though we was good


 * B) Mr. Latin then said "Oh Llava is my BFF and if he doesn't get elected well leave the site!"

So what did I get? The same thing he got! He would vote for the "less" popular waldeners like, Abrahams and Mcrooke. Call it a coup if you will, but Mr. Latin is as in much of the wrong as I am. Purley politics.

Would I do it again? Meh, probley? Mr.Latin and I both are in the "wrong", but not really? Mr. Latin also was crying "Oos is my friend!!! I would be so sad if he didn't get elected!" and sounded like a five year-old screaming "I really want my bottle!!!" and in this case the bottle being his friend Oos. So don't run a bad story and blame Mr.McCrooke, get your stupid facts right!!!

From - Marcus Villanova Music is Life.Lean Forward.Walden 22:23, November 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * Okay... but Pierlot has accented it to the point that its scandalous; he denies it and hides it to the point that it becomes a conspiracy. Edward Hannis [[File:CogHammer.gif]] 22:32, November 27, 2010 (UTC)

So he didn't do anything! Marcus Villanova Music is Life.Lean Forward.Walden 22:37, November 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * It's dishonest, fraudulent, and a conspiracy, all of which are bad image or illegal. Edward Hannis [[File:CogHammer.gif]] 22:57, November 27, 2010 (UTC)

not really? I disuccused with him voting for each other's parties? Marcus Villanova Music is Life.Lean Forward.Walden 23:09, November 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * 1) Not a consipracy, that's settled.
 * 2) Mr. Latin really did most of it, and said yes to everything like me!
 * 3) There's no law against it.

Also what Mr.Latin did was start this hole thing on another wiki (Harivian Wiki) and started blackmaling Walden. So if anything he started this going around saying "Never trust a waldener"...how about "Never Trust a CCPLer". Just because his little buddy Ooos didn't get elected he started this rage. Basicly i'm pissed beacuse i held my side of the bargin and he didn't. And then went going around lying! Peirlot was right to think about a consirpiacy, bacuase dick latin went around saying like a 5 year old school girl "I have a secret!!!" to Dimi and oos. What he left out was that he did most of the work himself. Marcus Villanova Music is Life.Lean Forward.Walden 23:37, November 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * The fact that you were a part of it doesn't make it any less bad. And maybe you don't have a good understanding of what a conspiracy is. As me and my buds put it in one of our improv sessions, a conspiracy is a villain with friends. Edward Hannis [[File:CogHammer.gif]] 23:53, November 27, 2010 (UTC)

That's good for you, what i'm saying is that alll it was is "hey i'll vote for you if you''ll vote for me?". Mr. Latin totally blew it out of porportion. The reason he said it now is becuase he's blocked so he couldn't get even more blocked and he's trying to get his party more in power is get be in trouble. ''Marcus Villanova Music is Life.Lean Forward.Walden 23:59, November 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * I don't know what you're quoting, so that statement hardly makes any sense. So what if Latin is creating havoc? It's mayhem that others had already made; he just kicked the sand off of it. It's perfectly normal and in fact honorable that he refuses to accept hidden corruption. I'm sure you'll argue that he's done bad things himself. A bad thing in the past does not make a good thing in the present any less good. Edward Hannis [[File:CogHammer.gif]] 03:12, November 28, 2010 (UTC)

Villanovas statements throw an other light on the case. BTW it was a mess in my head yesterday, that is why i did it those things yesterday Pierlot McCrooke 07:21, November 28, 2010 (UTC)

Please note Bucu is not a member of the CCPL. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 09:02, November 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * There is more to the story then meets the eye, Marcus. Did you know for example that I had several conversations with McCrooke prior to and during the State Elections? His reaction clearly suggests guilt; he has something to hide. We did not give any names yet, why presume this affair is about you? There is a corrupt Waldener, why would it not be corrupt Waldeners, as in: more then one? Dr. Magnus 09:13, November 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * I dont have anything to hide. I just didnt want that walden was been attacked without good proof. If this libel continues i hope the trial can be started soon Pierlot McCrooke 09:18, November 28, 2010 (UTC)

You play the part of someone innocent but you fail to play it well. Perhaps it would be better for you and your party if you would admit to your guilt, as Marcus did. He did a noble thing by admitting his guilt, and you are sobbing and crying you "got framed" and "a faker did it" and "it was a mess in my head"... Do you think it makes you look any less guilty? On the contrary... Dr. Magnus 09:22, November 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * PLEASE STOP NOW. I HAVE NO GUILT. I have even never spoken lovians on chat other than Marcus, you and sjors, and mostly never about lovian politics. Please stop this now Pierlot McCrooke 09:26, November 28, 2010 (UTC)

You know perfectly well what I'm talking about, don't play charades! The coup, remember? Your plan to take over Lovia? I kept the e-mails as proof... Dr. Magnus 09:33, November 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * That was long ago Magnus... And you even supported it BTW. So you are also guilty then. And it would not influence lovia. What IGP did Pierlot McCrooke 09:38, November 28, 2010 (UTC)

Talking about the IGP: you not only supported these fascists, you even joined them as a member and became their leader. Why are you even brining that up; it'll only damage your already fragile reputation further. Dr. Magnus 09:41, November 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * I deleted some undemocratic standpoints. That is what i did. I am sorry for joining all that nonsense. It was an silly decision to join that. But that planned coup was minor and did not cause much, and it was private on a chat planned a bit and it was long ago, probably in march or april. And now you may react, and then the discussion should be over Pierlot McCrooke 09:51, November 28, 2010 (UTC)

Oh trust me, I will react alright! I kept the logs and I kept the e-mails... I kept everything. Then there is also someone else who has some more information... Dr. Magnus 09:56, November 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * That interpol case? Even you that that cant be the truth DISCUSSION OVER Pierlot McCrooke 09:58, November 28, 2010 (UTC)

Not that... something more... sinister, comrade. Blackmail, it's called. And you are guilty of blackmail and threatening other users. Again: I've got proof. Dr. Magnus 10:03, November 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * Threatening other users? Yes. Months ago (maybe in september) and in 2009. Blackmail. NO. Never. You have BTW once said that if i dont support you after you writing all those speeches, you would publish my real-life pic on several sites. Apoo knows this. Pierlot McCrooke 10:07, November 28, 2010 (UTC)

Your words against mine. Yes, you have threatened other users. As in: do this, or otherwise face the consequences. It's called blackmail and you bloody well know what I'm talking about. Dr. Magnus 10:10, November 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * I cant do much about that part of my personality. I try to not do it. but bad sphere on a wiki can influence me. You also did that BTW. Read my part above the your part, about that you wanted to place my personal pic on several sites Pierlot McCrooke 10:13, November 28, 2010 (UTC)

I remember you making that outrageous claim. You kept the log, but all it proved was you having tempered with the evidence. As for "that part of my personality", that's a fucking lame excuse. Do you think Goering would have gotten away with such a lame excuse at the Nuremberg Trials? Lol... "bad sphere in Germany made me wanna join the fascists, bad sphere on wikia made me join IGP, made me threaten people... That's what you're saying, how lame. Dr. Magnus 10:18, November 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * I became part of the party because i disliked the king. Bad vergelijking BTW. Then i shooted too far, and started supporting those silly speeches by Honecker. I am sorry for that. However that coup that i made with you never done actually with Lovia. Youself even supported it, YOU EVEN SUPPORTED IGP. We both were wring, that is for sure Pierlot McCrooke 10:26, November 28, 2010 (UTC)

I supported IGP? I was blocked when the IGP started, and I talked to Uncle Dietrich, as did you, but never did I openly join or became a member of the party. Something you did. You became a fanatical fascist because you and Honecker had one thing in common: your hatred for the King. As for that coup: it did not take place indeed, because your attempted blackmail failed and the wikia staff didn't fall for it. You wanted to gain my support by promising to make me a baron in my one realm if you'd become the Dictator of Lovia. Dr. Magnus 10:30, November 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * You even liked that i sended that mail to wiki staff. So you DID LIKE that i would become dictator of lovia Pierlot McCrooke 10:33, November 28, 2010 (UTC)

Haha, I told you something like: "good for you, boy" or something similar! I myself knew from the beginning it was a ridiculous plot that would have never worked. By sharing it with me, and with the wikia staff, you made a grave mistake. You, as the dictator of Lovia? Never! But if you would have succeeded in your unlikely and evil plot to get rid of the King and his friends, I would have prefered to be on the good side of the dictator then being at his bad side. I did not want to provoke the wrath of the man who would possibly rule the nation soon! Luckily, you failed. To bad for the baronage and the noble titles you promised me... Dr. Magnus 10:38, November 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * You came with the idea, to take over Lovia. and yes, thats real . Pierlot McCrooke 10:40, November 28, 2010 (UTC)

Haha, you are really pathetic! It was your idea and you would become the dictator and ruler of Lovia in the absence of the King. You were the one with the evidence and you were the one who would e-mail the wikia staff and present them with the evidence YOU HAD. I myself had nothing on either on the admins so I could have never been able to make such a plan a reality. It was your plan all along and you know that perfectly well. Luckily for me, and to bad for you, it failed. Lovia would have been hell under dictator McCrooke. Dr. Magnus 10:43, November 28, 2010 (UTC)

Ik ruik hier wel een roddelbladluchtje.. :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 06:05, November 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * Ik ruik hier enkel de geur van schande en verlies... xD Dr. Magnus 08:48, November 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * I am really astonished by your writing skills, Hannis! It was a good thing to sell my newspaper to you Bucu 08:58, November 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * It is the best newspaper of today. Unlike TNCT, which strangely enough has not reacted at all. Dr. Magnus 09:04, November 29, 2010 (UTC)

Evidence case Villanova
After the late show of yesterday evening, I went home, for the first time in a month. And I was very happy to find my evidence still on my PC, safe from opponents. Having read the LQ's of this week, surprised by your writing skills, I decided that it would be best to send the evidence to LQ. I think tomorrow would be a nice day, how about you, Edward? Bucu 15:28, November 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * Wait I never did anything, it was you that did it? Can I see this document? I'm sure it's fake. Marcus Villanova Music is Life.Lean Forward.Walden 22:38, November 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * Villanova, you're really not to be looking to falsify documents. I've checked that thing, and if it's fake, then Bucu has gone through a major waste of time. It looks good enough to pass falsification claims. It will be treated as truth, and hence uploaded.
 * Bucu, I am most humbled. And yes, this will be interesting. However, let's not get too sadist on this guy. Though I doubt we're close to saying bygones be bygones, it's still nothing to get cackling in our evil lair/manor about. Edward Hannis [[File:CogHammer.gif]] 22:59, November 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * What? And what did it say? Again if it's printed well then, well see what happens. Marcus Villanova Music is Life.Lean Forward.Walden 23:04, November 29, 2010 (UTC)

Party politics
This country is getting really messed up. We saw it in the state elections, with the 'electoral fraud'; we see it now with these leaked discussions. Likewise, the fact that Walden has actually made a 'voting plan' is not completely moral.

And whose fault is it? The fault of party politics. Every party, whether it be the CCPL, the CPL, or Walden, is only interested in getting its own members elected, and this attitude fosters mistrust and tension between politicians. The fact that the CCPL happens to be doing most of the protesting is not because we are in anyway superior; in fact, if the situation was reversed we'd probably do the same. No, it's because we stand to lose by the current system, unlike the other parties who will gain.

Clearly, we need to end this. And that means ending party politics in Lovia. We must persuade politicians to vote honestly, i.e. not for other party members, but for the candidates that they honestly think are best. This need not necessarily mean that all politicians will stand as independents in the next elections, but in the long term, I think that this is the only possible solution. And that is why I am now resigning from the CCPL. --Semyon 17:10, November 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * I understand your concerns but there are two major problems with independants: First of all, in party politics you are sure what the guy you're voting for is sort of going to vote, 'cause he's a member of a party which has a party program. Many independants don't have their own political program (they don't create a list of their views/plans). Secondly, when a country grows (which is something Lovia at the moment sort of does), it gets more difficult to know all different users and to know what their exact ideologies are. You simply can't see anymore who is your "ally in politics" and who's your "enemy". Therefore we need parties. At the moment though, independants are still possible, but if we get more than thirty people running for MOTC it gets tricky. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 17:56, November 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * I know what you mean, but at the moment I still feel that the problems with parties currently outweigh the benefits. --Semyon 18:02, November 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * Okay, that's a consideration you make. Just to let you know: if you might have a change of thought, you're always welcome to rejoin the CCPL! We are proud that you have been one of our members for such a long time :) --O u WTBsjrief-mich 18:06, November 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * Neither one of us can predict the future but I say the CCPL, like the CPL.nm, has a good chance at winning several more seats in congress in the next elections. For the sake of our party, reconsider your plan to resign and think about it. We would hate to lose a valuable member at this point, I know we could still count on you as an ally but what good would your support be if you, as an independent, fail to get elected into congress? Pierius Magnus 18:09, November 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * You sound like George Washington, man. And parties are a subsequent reaction to the fact that humans like to group up; it's genetic and unavoidable. Note that here, unlike the US, the parties are effectively free of legal meaning; they're just an alliance really. If you are independent, you have just as much the ability to be a congressman as anyone else. Removing parties would be unconstitutional, taking away our right to congregate peacefully. Edward Hannis [[File:CogHammer.gif]] 23:03, November 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * Why the government has already banned the IGP, grant I would to, which seems illegal, and Latin is accusing me of somthing? Which i guess was in our convo about me telling him to vote for walden, in that case thats what Political parties do tell you who to vote for, so it appears some lovian think political parties are bad and should be outlawed. Marcus Villanova Music is Life.Lean Forward.Walden 23:06, November 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * Well, I have nothing against parties per se. It's just all this 'I'll vote for you if you vote for me' stuff has put a bad taste in my mouth. And to be honest, I don't see that doing it between members of the same party is fundamentally any different from when the people are from different parties. --Semyon 19:03, November 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * Oh, and by the way, I wouldn't want to force people to leave parties, simply encourage them. --Semyon 19:11, November 30, 2010 (UTC)

Did he send you the entire thing?
You know he started crying like a five year-old "Oos is my friend!!" and threatened to leave the site if Oos didn't get elected, right or did he edit that out? He acts like he was the bad guy and acted like a held a gun to his head. Yes of course I "Bribed him" (your words not mine) I kinda supported the Oceana Movement beacuse, tho I support progessivism, I didn't want another civil war to start. He said yes to everything and...you know what I don't feel like dealing with this. Why? beacuse I really didn't do anything wrong, there's two sides to every story and you've only listened to one. Very bad newspaper. Marcus Villanova Music is Life.Lean Forward.Walden 23:17, November 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * You're getting emotional (cue: "NO I'M NOT!" said the unstable politician.). Don't. This is my view to the situation, as I have been informed of it as. Nothing more, nothing less. The fact that you don't agree is another story in itself. And the "bribery" isn't my words, it's Bucu's. Note that it is in quotes, because I, as a semi-decent journalist, actually make my sources clear. No nonsense, unlike your claims. Edward Hannis [[File:CogHammer.gif]] 23:37, November 29, 2010 (UTC)

So your gonna totally belive him and not give me a chance? Cool, your awesome. Marcus Villanova Music is Life.Lean Forward.Walden 23:39, November 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * I believe the most credible source. He has evidence now. You, do not. Unless you have anything to say for yourself, you're not innocent in the eyes of the media. And note that the media is not the government; we have the right to say guilty if suggested so. You're not innocent unless we have good reason to think so, and the same goes for guilt. Edward Hannis [[File:CogHammer.gif]] 23:41, November 29, 2010 (UTC)

Fine, then Don't expect anything from me, no interviews no nutin'. Marcus Villanova Music is Life.Lean Forward.Walden 23:43, November 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * Marcus, you are entitled to defending yourself. If you really want people to trust you, your best move would be to go to the media and argue in your favor. I'm not a biased person, it's just that the evidence against you is overwhelming comparing to your rather incoherent arguments. I'm not mean, man. Just take it from my point of view; you're all emotional and defensive, and Latin is dead calm, and has evidence. It's hard to believe you, try as I may. Edward Hannis [[File:CogHammer.gif]] 23:46, November 29, 2010 (UTC)

Fine, i have defened myself though. IRL I am very hyper,guess it actually shows on the internet.Marcus Villanova Music is Life.Lean Forward.Walden 23:54, November 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * There you go. Now we're even on what we know. Edward Hannis [[File:CogHammer.gif]] 00:29, November 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * It appears to me there were miscommunications between Marcus and Latin. When Latin says "You see, I don't think this thing you proposed is really necessary", i believe he is stating that he does not feel that Marcus's proposal (he votes for Ilava and if Latin voted for the Green bills in Congress and for Walden) was necessary. But i think Marcus thought that Latin agreed to it. I would not really call this fraud since there appeard to be a misunderstanding about the issue. But, we must not let this happen again, since this has created lots of problems in Lovia. Horton11 01:04, November 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * What you're talking about is why the event became known about by the public. The very fact that Marcus wanted to exchange votes for Waldenistic support is fraud. Edward Hannis [[File:CogHammer.gif]] 01:14, November 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * Horton, I understand your argument. However, according to your argumentation, it should be allowed to propose to exchange votes. But if the deal is not accepted, there wouldn't be anything wrong, right? Well, then you could also propose to someone to kill a specific person, but if this someone denies it would be completely legal. With all due respect, I don't find this very reasonable, to be honest. Bucu 13:54, November 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * Again I agree with Horton here, the convo was defintley changed. Hannis read it again, I say somthing like "Yea I'll vote for walden" and then the convo entirely changes. It was edited plus this is defintly incoherrent. Agaion try reading it carefully. Plus at the end it makes it seem that the deal was off, or if there was any deal. Anyway i know latin said yes. Oh and in the screen shot thingy it says I'm going to a gay rights rally? Why would i say that? IRL i'm 13...You think i'm going to gay rights rallies? Anyway best luck on your ways Marcus Villanova Music is Life.Lean Forward.Walden 22:17, November 30, 2010 (UTC)

Where's the part where Bucu thought that all the people from belgium were running and making all the descions on the site? Oh it was cut out. Marcus Villanova Music is Life.Lean Forward.Walden 22:36, November 30, 2010 (UTC)

@ Marcus What i meant to say was that Latin thought the deal was off and you thouight the deal was on. Horton11 22:41, November 30, 2010 (UTC)


 * Still doesn't matter he said "yes" so it doesn't matter. Marcus Villanova Music is Life.Lean Forward.Walden 22:42, November 30, 2010 (UTC)

It does matter: if Latin thought the deal was off, he cannot be blamed for anything. Judging for the IRC-screen, he wasn't the one who initiated the meeting either. Making him the good party. Pierius Magnus 22:45, November 30, 2010 (UTC)


 * From what i read he didn't say yes. But, this is a minor issue blown waaay out of proportion by the media. It was all just a misunderstanding. Horton11 22:47, November 30, 2010 (UTC)

Agreed, which leads to my point made eariler: If more progressives were active right now it wouldn't have been blown out of porportion. Hannis is a Center-right, Bucu Far-right, Magnus a friend but still far right, and horton who just came now Progressive. So again: Take your pick. Marcus Villanova Music is Life.Lean Forward.Walden 22:50, November 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * You (tempted to break my promise to not to swear) freaking kidding me? I joined Walden Libertarian Party (note that it was not yet Walden) as a left-leaning libertarian, which I still am on Lovia. I am most definitively not right. You can't possibly accuse me of that. And frankly, it's pretty obvious you thought the deal was on. And it doesn't matter that it could have been a misunderstanding. The fact that Marcus had offered is what's illegal, no matter if Bucu accepted or not. Edward Hannis [[File:CogHammer.gif]] 23:36, November 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * So now I'm far-right? :)) Well that makes sense! Bucu 17:56, December 1, 2010 (UTC)

Interesting (or not)
It looks as though Lovia is facing interesting elections. Did I get this right? Walden is falling apart because Pierlot (!) (< read: exclamation mark) did something "corrupt" and because McCandless nor Van Ghent have been around this last week? Well, well. Weird serious politics, I see. 07:29, December 1, 2010 (UTC)
 * Pierlot and Villanova both something wrong (Marcus being corrupt and Pierlot trying to stage a coup), and they both admitted guilt. Now both Pierlot and Hannis left Walden: Pierlot joined CPL.nm and Hannis joined CCPL. That last one really came as a suprise to me, I must say. As Hannis application was accepted by Ilava despite his non-religious background. So yes, very interesting elections coming up - and Walden is no longer the largest party with only 5 remaining members. Pierius Magnus 07:33, December 1, 2010 (UTC)
 * Non-religious background? Recall his religion-bashing?! I am really disappointed in his hypocrisy and fear mister Hannis will embrace the authoritarian views he mentioned in the past. He is probably trying to exploit the opposition for his own benefit. 07:54, December 1, 2010 (UTC)
 * I believe mr. Hannis is sincere in his beliefs. I doubt he'll recall his religion-bashing, but he'll keep his tone down as a member of our party. He respects our views and agrees with many of them, as he told Ilava: "I don't need God to support your party", as you've said before: "I don't need a soul, I've already got a conscience". Hannis has called Walden a sinking ship, and now he has left the sinking ship, as Pierlot already did. Pierius Magnus 07:57, December 1, 2010 (UTC)
 * Sure, but why join the CCPL? Certainly not for its views, unless he is a real hypocrite and doesn't care where the votes come from. I think he feels powerless (he can't affect the course of Walden) and therefore strives for an institutional crisis. Otherwise it makes no sense to join a party with views opposite to yours... 08:03, December 1, 2010 (UTC)
 * I must say his action suprised me aswell. I was expecting him to join CPL.nm or begin a new fraction. He does feel powerless, I believe: the leaders of Walden have not given any reaction to the crisi (struisvogelpolitiek, anyone?) and Hannis is not entitled to speak for the party so there is nothing else he can do. Pierius Magnus 08:06, December 1, 2010 (UTC)
 * I just wonder what his goals are. I refuse to sit aside and watch as 'political divides' are starting to correlate. Sure you can see how nationalism-religion-populism is being positioned against unitarianism-secularism-establishment. This potential crisis, wether induced on purpose or not, is to be halted right away. 08:11, December 1, 2010 (UTC)
 * It will be halted. Two people have broken the law, blackmailed others, staged a coup, proven to be corrupt and admitted guilt on several occassions. The evidence is overwhelming and we have a confession. Trials could be coming up, and the entire affair may have to be settled in court. Walden is done for. Sad, but true. The political landscape will never be the same again, but things will get better I am sure. Pierius Magnus 08:15, December 1, 2010 (UTC)
 * How was that saying about a bear and his fur? Some people made some mistakes and some people felt the need to undertake some actions. As always in politics, willpower is the most determining factor. If Walden wants to survive it can and I have no doubt it will, even if just as a junior partner. 08:22, December 1, 2010 (UTC)
 * We'll see. They'll need to lower their ambitions, though. Get real. That's what they ought to do. Pierius Magnus 08:39, December 1, 2010 (UTC)

Struisvogelpolitiek? I just wasn't around. I didn't hide! Martha Van Ghent 13:45, December 1, 2010 (UTC)
 * don't even bother, Marf. Pierius is just a hothead (meant to be funny)  17:10, December 1, 2010 (UTC)
 * You're totally right, Andrew (hehe) ;) Bucu 19:18, December 1, 2010 (UTC)
 * Just a hothead, Andy? The you're a pothead, you darn leftist tree-huggin' hippy! Pierius Magnus 19:23, December 1, 2010 (UTC)
 * Haha tree-huggers rock! (Just another reason to impose the death penalty! :P) Bucu 19:26, December 1, 2010 (UTC)
 * Lol, just to piss those sissies off! xD Pierius Magnus 19:35, December 1, 2010 (UTC)
 * Kom dan. Bucu 19:37, December 1, 2010 (UTC) ^^

Frankly I think it made us stonger and found out who's who (I always get 's wrong. is it suppose to be whos?). We will do good in the next elections. Marcus Villanova Music is Life.Lean Forward.Walden 20:28, December 1, 2010 (UTC)
 * Whoever said I was a traitor? I might be antireligious, but it's not like atheists are a nation! Yuri, not be starting any confrontation (I hold much respect for you), but if you really want to make atheists appear "kind and accepting" as you undoubtedly want atheists to appear, then don't call someone who may sway away from antireligious views as a traitor! Besides, I'm not moving away from atheism; I'm just moving towards what I've interpreted as a value of the CCPL: christian democracy. I most certainly do hope you know that this political standpoint can be very well nonreligious (see: France; UMP), and can very well not be uberconservative. I'd also appreciate it if we not bash upon my decision to not join the CPL.nm; I feel that socialism and (neo-)marxism looked good on paper, but in terms of application does not work well. We are entitled to disagree. I'm not a hypocrite: I am just centrist, and I follow my three rules (see: user page), from which I've figured it's a good idea to maybe think a little before taking actions. Christian democracy, as I've said before, is not necessarily conservative. In fact, it is one of the few standpoints supporting liberalism, conservatism, and socialism. Hence, an all-embracing person such as myself could logically come towards the conclusion that my decision to move away from a certain ideal and take a new(er) standpoint on the world whilst maintaining original fundamental ideas that christian democracy supports, is a perfectly good idea. You wrote "Lovian Dialogues" in reference to Socrates; I'm doing as he did. I find my decisions upon logical conclusions, and take action upon it (hopefully hemlock will not be my final drink, though). You almost appear to be like Plato's dog/warrior/"defender" ideal; the philosopher who loves what is known and fears the unknown. Maybe not the smartest thing he said.
 * To recap upon my defense: I am not a traitor to the imaginary kingdom of atheism, nor does atheism make me incapable of supporting Christianity or any related things. I did not join the CCPL for religion or super-conservatism, though I may support conservatism (I'm finding that this country is accelerating towards radicalism), I joined for Christian democracy.
 * As aforementioned, I hold no grudge against you; it's been a long while before anyone has yet angered me, let alone on the internet. If you feel that what I've said is not an adequate justification, then please explain why. Edward Hannis [[File:CogHammer.gif]] 03:10, December 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * I agree that Christian-democratic views could just as well be held by an Atheist. What I find less obvious, is how you could find yourself in the pre-feminist views held by Ilava and his, though the program is more or less politically correct (against sex discrimination, in favor of women's rights). Thát is more odd that the whole religion debate. 14:18, December 2, 2010 (UTC)

My opinion
Though I like formulating harsh opinions I was simply trying to understand your move, Hannis. I didn't 'accuse' you of anything but only found that the best explanation was a moral panic on your part as an answer to the seeming incapacity and failure of Walden. If you say you feel more at home with Christian Democrats, that's fine with me. It takes however some seriously distorted judgement to categorize the CCPL as a Christian Democratic party, judging by their opinion on gay marriage or woman for instance. Also, I don't want to 'divide' religious and atheist people but I do oppose religious parties. The state should allow all religions (pluralist society) but be secular in itself. 14:43, December 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * If the CCPL could be able to set up a theocracy, we won't ban any religion or atheism. It's up to the people to decide whether they want to end up in Heaven or Hell. People that are bad in a way, criminals, terrorist etc, should be punish for they make it impossible for people to live in a way which is acceptable to the word of the holy book. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 14:47, December 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * Well how nice of you, it is just that government decision are to be based on statistics, practical arguments and the people their well-being. Dogma and divine dictate do not qualify, strange Hannis failed to spot that. 14:51, December 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * They do qualify. They are the base of life as we know it. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 14:53, December 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * Sure, your opinion and that of the CCPL. That is another discussion, my question is how Hannis can defend the CCPL as a party of christian democrats? How can you say 'the only basis for truth is scientific evidence' and then join the CCPL? If he doesn't have another reason than the one given the explanation must be sought within a lack of coherent judgement (loose from the question which judgement - religious or areligious - is wrong). 14:58, December 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * Well, if you agree with the views of the CCPL, but don't believe in God, you still agree with the views. A political party is there to put views into reality and therefore you could join/support the CCPL. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 15:01, December 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * Don't make every discussion about God will you . You and the official CCPL program have a consistent religious view. I - and until recently Hannis - have a consistent areligious one. You can't have both at the same time without suffering from a severe mental condition. So either mister Hannis (1) 'saw the light' or (2) he misinterpreted the CCPL's program or (3) he joined for reasons still not given. 15:06, December 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * Haha, I'll try, but it's difficult :P I personally hope he saw the light, but I'm afraid that ain't the reason :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 15:15, December 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * It was never my goal to discredit Hannis. Nor did I try to call religion stupid or bad (not in this discussion at least). I'm just saying that the reason he gave (joining the christian democrats) is not the true one or at least based on bad judgement. 15:18, December 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * Well, I don't agree with you on that one. And it ain't rare that we don't agree, so... :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 15:20, December 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * Question: does the CDA oppose gay marriage? The Flemish CD&V doesn't (for the record: the Walloon counterpart, cdH, even removed 'christian' from its name). No Christian Democratic party seeks to install a theocracy I'm afraid. 15:24, December 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * Well, the difference is traditional Christian democracy and "modern" Christian democracy. Most CDA members don't oppose gay marriage (but not all!!), with the CU it's about 50% and the SGP is fully against gay marriage, so it depends. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 15:28, December 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * That would be the difference between a Christian Party and a Christian Democrat one. I don't know the history of Dutch political parties but in Belgium the Christian Party evolved to the Christian Democrat one - itself stressing the change. Of course you can have 'in betweens' but the CCPL party doens't really differ from the old Belgian Christian Party. 15:32, December 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * A good place to make the divide seems the difference between parties that are based on 'Christianity as religion' and those on 'Christian values as present in western European societies'. 15:34, December 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * Then CDA is damn divided. In the protestant part of the party most people would say "Christian values as present in western European societies", while the catholics would say "Christianity as religion". The protestants that say "Christianity as religion" are part of either the CU or the SGP. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 15:37, December 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * The label 'christian democracy' was invented to distance from Christianity as religion. I didn't make the divide, CDA'ers and CD&V'ers did. 15:43, December 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * Anyway, I don't think the CCPL would really qualify as a true Christian democratic party. For some members of the CCPL this could be true (the more progressive part of the party), but the traditional part, which of course includes me, doesn't support democracy and therefore are not Christian democrat. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 15:47, December 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * I admit the classification of parties is often 'nattevingerwerk' but the CCPL always presented itself as a Christian party. The CPL.nm also has commies, socialists and social democrats but the party statutes explain we are modern day communists. 15:50, December 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * We indeed call ourselves a Christian party, but that's more or less a way to make us distinct from the new Christian-inspired party Moderate Centrist Party. And the term Christian party includes both Christian democrats and Christian theocrats. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 15:54, December 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * But the CCPL takes on the Bible as an inspiration for the party and not just for individual members, or am I mistaken? 15:57, December 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * Eh.. Well.. The situation could be quite difficult for outsiders since our somehow "forced" reform. In principe the party council decides which issues are important and what views we take about it (of course inspired by the Bible), but on a few issues, like f.e. abortion, we decided to leave the decision up to our members, which may or may not be inspired by the Bible. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 16:00, December 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * I supported the CCPL because its directly stated Ideology was agreeable with my personal standpoint, on top of the fact that its implication of Christianity could be redirected into Christian democracy (after all, there's hardly any political position that does not confide to it). Out of all the things in the ideology, there's only one thing I don't agree with: the part about homosexuals. Other than that, it's effectively what I agree with. Maybe the part about women should be clarified (note that it never goes against women directly, instead suggesting that they could be objected against). Other than that, I do pretty much agree with the party's ideology. Good enough for you? Plus, I like the people in the party, something that means a lot to me. Good communication is essential, and I feel that this could happen in the CCPL. Edward Hannis [[File:CogHammer.gif]] 00:07, December 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * We (me) are not against women in any way. If I'd be openly against women and not a hypocrit, I'd never find myself a girl after all. I think our party should embrace women as they are, unlike many homosexuals, not fundamentally against all we stand for. And we like you to, Hannis! Pierius Magnus 05:18, December 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * Christianity is not against women at all. There should be mutual respect and love for each other in a good relationship, which Christianity agrees with. The pope for example does not approve of just "sending lots and lots on condoms and anti-conception" to Africa, why? Because it only makes men disrespect their partners and allows them to continue cheating on their wifes. If you could get aids, or get a bunch of kids out of wedlock from cheating on your wife, you may want to think twice before being untrue to your loved one. Christianity loves and respects women, treasures and protects them. Pierius Magnus 05:31, December 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * (1) Christianity isn't 'against' woman but due to its focus on patriarchic institutions it facilitates their dependency/oppression. (2) HIV is on the African continent primarily spread by polygamy (followed by prostitution). The male-oriented cultures behind the polygamic practices often defend themselves by referring to the Biblical teachings. 15:58, December 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * The reason Christianity is blamed is because it is the largest religion in the areas where there is such a problem. If it were any other religion that were the strongest, then that would be blamed. Basically, you're stuck with a religion to blame no matter what, and you and I both know religion is almost unstoppable. And religion will likely never die, or at the very least not in our lifetime. I may not support religion all too much, but I've learned to coexist with it and its followers. And I expect the same from them. Edward Hannis [[File:CogHammer.gif]] 22:35, December 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * I'd rather "co-exist" with those people, but I will not voluntarily co-exist with their organized churches, if they continue to spread dogma. I've learned to live with them too, but it hasn't made me meek - I still want the position of religion to diminish in society and I know it is possible. Martha Van Ghent 07:41, December 4, 2010 (UTC)
 * Indeed. Besides, the argument of 'Christianity just happens to be around' is a silly one. Other doctrinal systems might have been in Christianity's place, that is no reason not to take up responsibility. 10:36, December 5, 2010 (UTC)
 * As if they're not. As much as you may disagree, the religions of the world all donate a significant amount of money towards organizations worldwide. Not to mention the fact that they do honestly believe that they're also sending the most powerful force in the universe to help out those in need: God. Though you may claim that it's total BS and that it doesn't help, that's not true. Not to start any philosophical/quantum mechanics arguments, but reality is confined to the extent into which it is observed; to a theist, God is very real, their prayers very useful. And anyhow, so be it if religion may cause unhappiness; ideally, you could argue it would be better of society were atheistic, but it's not. Stop daydreaming and get into reality; theism is dominant, and the best way to allow it to end by allowing it to naturally descend. Even in the US, atheism is on the up and up. I do my part to that, getting people to at the very least doubt God. But until then, I'm good with theists. Edward Hannis [[File:CogHammer.gif]] 17:59, December 5, 2010 (UTC)

"the religions of the world all donate a significant amount of money towards organizations worldwide" = BS argument. More money went to religion than to anything else. Being from Western Europe, you know what churches have absorbed from society. There has been no "giving back" for ages, besides some social services that were given only if you sold your soul to the good lord. 20:51, December 5, 2010 (UTC)
 * A majority of donation organizations have more or less a religious background, religious leader, or anything else pretaining to it. Not to mention the fact that religion does provide the world with a (placebo-based) feeling: hope. Edward Hannis [[File:CogHammer.gif]] 21:05, December 5, 2010 (UTC)

Hannis, Hannis! What a massive transformation from just some weeks ago when you and me had some fierce discussion about the very same subject. Back then I was the one defending religion with some of the same arguments you are now using. I see why people are sceptical here - a fierce atheist joins a Christian party. Never saw it coming, was expecting you to run for the commies, really. But I'm very glad to have you on our side: you're a smooth talker, a good writer and a powerful media-mogul, it's what we need. Pierius Magnus 21:18, December 5, 2010 (UTC)
 * I like the party, and I think the fundamental ideas that most Christians (deluded or not) adhere to is closer to my philosophically-attained ideas on government (I'm going to describe them in an upcoming book Where Plato Was Wrong). I don't know if I like the idea of me being a smooth talker; transparency is favorable. As for the good writing, I am most humbled, but I'm coming to terms with a possible talent for wording. As for the media-mogul, this I do not like very much at all. Let's remember the last person to be a media-mogul; Brenda Young, member of the IGP. Edward Hannis [[File:CogHammer.gif]] 21:25, December 5, 2010 (UTC)

This is just how I see things, amigo. I'm glad you joined us, although at first when I saw you joining our party I pinched myself to check if I wasn't dreaming. Of all atheists I spoke with in Lovia, you were perhaps the most militant and aggresive in your approach. You even wrote a book about your beliefs, something others didn't. In it, you didn't speak very well of organised religion, to say the least. Despite the fact you joined us because you agreed with our beliefs of "Christian democracy", you still call us "deluded" - perhaps it would be better for you to refrain from such harsh criticism in the future, Christianity is, after all, the main point of our party's excistence and the driving force behind it's current success. Pierius Magnus 21:32, December 5, 2010 (UTC)
 * Chuckles in backround to mangus's comment* Marcus Villanova Music is Life.Lean Forward.Walden 21:26, December 5, 2010 (UTC)
 * I referred to delusion to suggest to Dimi that it doesn't matter if you're right or not (it is, down to fundamental quantum mechanics, impossible to prove you wrong) in terms of argument. I did not suggest that you were wrong in this case. And I do regret for being so anti-religious before. From what I've understood from a few psychologists, it is very likely religion is the reason we are not cavemen anymore; it inherently led us to group and seek to appeal to God(s) and hence lead to progress, something atheism would have likely never done for us in that situation. Edward Hannis [[File:CogHammer.gif]] 21:36, December 5, 2010 (UTC)

You make me proud, son! Spread the word, spread the word! Pierius Magnus 21:37, December 5, 2010 (UTC)
 * Religion is one of the most oppressing phantoms ever created, it doesn't only literally oppresses woman, children, sexuality and functional moral, it also destroys intellectual potential. Religious charity is nice, but it doesn't solve the problem. In fact religious charity is often blind for the causes, denying the structural nature and instead bullshitting around about some divine plan. @Magnus: religion did some potential-liberating efforts in its early stages, but due to its nature (dogmatic) it became perverted by power, societal change, etc. I don't go religion-bashing because 'they tell lies' but because the lies actually hurt society and its future potential. 15:21, December 6, 2010 (UTC)
 * Why should loving somebody of the same sex be okay, while loving somebody with a lower age ain't? (homosexuality = good, pedophily = bad). --O u WTBsjrief-mich 17:59, December 6, 2010 (UTC)
 * According to sicence (Or do you belive in science?) People are born gay, a race of poeple. Deniing them a right is rascist, just like saying white people can't marry...same thing. Now People aren't born Likeing little children but some pedohils state they were But:
 * A) even if they were born that way, the child doesn't know any better and is been taken advantage of
 * B)They probaly had some tromatizing event in there lives that makes them like that, or have been rejected so many times by women that they rape kids to get there fill.

Next time Oos don't Compare Gays to Pedophiles. Marcus Villanova Music is Life.Lean Forward.Walden 21:56, December 6, 2010 (UTC)
 * I believe that gays are perfectly acceptable, but it's not for the same price that one can say that they're normal. For lack of a better example, it's like saying you're born without a part of your body; okay, but abnormal. It is a psychological effect within the mind that does lead people to homosexuality, and for the most part it is not a choice. Though Ilava's argument may be wrong, we could rephrase this question to make it more effectively interesting in terms of morality; what is the moral difference between homosexuality and having an affair with an underage person choosing to be in this affair out of free will? Edward Hannis [[File:CogHammer.gif]] 22:34, December 6, 2010 (UTC)

It doesn't matter if the person is gay, but that the younger person hasn't made a choice or made a chance ti make a interpritaton to have sex with somone or there sexual orientation. Marcus Villanova Music is Life.Lean Forward.Walden 23:23, December 6, 2010 (UTC)
 * Can you rephrase that with actual grammar? Marcus, it's just five seconds of your time to actually spell-check yourself, or a much longer time for us to try and figure out what it is you're saying. Edward Hannis [[File:CogHammer.gif]] 23:25, December 6, 2010 (UTC)

People, people! Why compare homosexuals with pedophiles? They may both be, in a way, sick and perverted, but homosexuals do not hurt humanity in the way pedophiles do. Being gay does not necessarily make one a pedophile - or the other way round. Gays are, in my point of view, just strange and misguided people. Perverted, but not beyond repair. Capable of art, with a sense of "fashion", creative folk. Whereas pedophiles do nothing but hurt those around them and cause damage and destruction to the most vulnerable of all people: our children. I may dislike homosexuals, but I am willing to tolerate them, to some extent. I would NEVER be willing to tolerate pedophiles. Comparing them is out of the question, in any case. Pierius Magnus 05:54, December 7, 2010 (UTC)


 * First, Oos did not me and hannis defended it. Second people are born gay. Marcus Villanova Music is Life.Lean Forward.Walden 21:24, December 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * I agree with you, Villanova, but keep in mind that some people are, for lack of a better comparison, born with physical irregularities such as ugliness, which (again not my opinion) is undesirable but tolerable. I can't think of a better comparison off the top of my head right now. Edward Hannis [[File:CogHammer.gif]] 01:14, December 8, 2010 (UTC)
 * That's nonsense. Gay people often become gay. Many of them had a girl friend in their youth or are "bisexual". And why should pedophiles not have it since their birth? They loved kids already when they were kids! In my eyes both homosexuality and "pedosexuality" (if the first one is just a sexual orientation, the second one is also just one) are wrong and should not be promoted by a government the way it's currently the case. Men who "can't love women" could become monk. --O u WTBsjrief-mich 06:31, December 8, 2010 (UTC)
 * Being homosexual (I dislike the word 'gay' because of the persistent gender connotation) is a combination of many factors, but I do believe the main reason is to be found in biology (hormonal things, brain chemistry). Consider the tolerated (!) affairs of elderly men with male juveniles during the classical period or homosexual pairs of animals like those penguins in the Berlin zoo. It is not just 'another symptom of moral decay in these modern times'. 07:34, December 8, 2010 (UTC)
 * The fact some ancient Greeks committed these perverted acts do not make them any less wrong. The ancient Greeks have been idealised for far too long; their society, like any society in history, was definetely not without its flaws. Gays are the cause of aids - world wide. Because of their refusal of being faithful to one partner, and their refusal to practice "safe sex" in the 1980s, now even women and children are BORN with aids, and it has become a "genetic disorder", so to speak. Then pedophiles: those are born perverted and for their perversion there is no cure: they are only cured in death, only then they are harmless. A pedophile is born as a threat to society and mankind and remains a threat and a danger for as long as he walks the earth. Pierius Magnus 08:58, December 8, 2010 (UTC)

So, all i have to say is no people aren't born pedos, but they wrongly confuse the two as a excuse in court. People are born gay, but will date women when there still in the closet as a cover up or they don't know themselves so they just want to see (lolz). Marcus Villanova Music is Life.Lean Forward.Walden 21:30, December 8, 2010 (UTC)
 * Genetically speaking, the parts of your brain that are associated with orientation could have a misfire quite easily, and hence being "born" gay or pedophilic is largely uncontrollable. Let's keep in mind, however, that in extreme youth the portions of our brain associated with this are never really used, hence making them exceptionally prone to change. It is largely out of a person's control whether or not they become gay or not. Pedophilia however, is not as clear; it is often thought that it is a result of lifetime trauma or other psychological effects, but other psychologists claim that these sources are not accurate due to bias against the possibility of pedophilia being normal. Edward Hannis [[File:CogHammer.gif]] 23:33, December 8, 2010 (UTC)

Pedohphilia being normal? About as normal as kleptomania, pyromania or schizofrenia. The main difference is in the fact it can neither be treated nor cured. Pierius Magnus 12:26, December 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * I'll give you that it is bad due to its obvious negative side-effects, but this is not to say that it is not normal. Keep in mind that many cultures thought that those who are mentally or physically weak should be banished. Nowadays, we think that's acceptable, and to a certain degree normal (it's not considered to be evil or something to be punished for). Edward Hannis [[File:CogHammer.gif]] 23:09, December 9, 2010 (UTC)

Needless to say, the weak are still look down upon in nowadays' culture. We did, however, learn to accept it at some point. Which is okay to me. God forbid we ever grow to tolerate, or even accept pedophilia. It is evil and you ought to be severely punished for it. Pierius Magnus 05:12, December 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * I agree completely, but this is what troubles me. Why is it that this could be deemed so outlandishly illegal? It is when we illogically or blindly make decisions that things go wrong; it's the type of thing I want to address in my book on Plato's Republic. Edward Hannis [[File:CogHammer.gif]] 06:40, December 10, 2010 (UTC)

Just for the record (1)
The LFA is not "very atheistic." They encompass all non-theistic views, including agnosticism and freethought. 19:29, December 12, 2010 (UTC)


 * Yes I'm a half Christian-Jew (And Muslim ) but a great member beacuse I think Out-side the box...or the entire package. Marcus Villanova Music is Life.Lean Forward.Walden 21:32, December 13, 2010 (UTC)

Just for the record (2)
Jefferson is firm in his (lack of) belief, but he's definitely the more tolerant of the atheists. In his early days, he was sort of a hippie with "love all" sentiments  19:29, December 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * By "very atheistic" I meant its members. With the exception of McCandless, they're all atheists, as far as I understand. I think McCandless is a self-defined freethinker. And I do understand that he may be tolerant. All it takes is for one of the sides to be intolerant for problems to arise. Edward Hannis [[File:CogHammer.gif]] 19:56, December 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * Are you not a member yourself? ;) 20:19, December 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * Upon grounds of a group supporting a tolerant, but nonetheless atheistic (pro tempore) society, yes. Edward Hannis [[File:CogHammer.gif]] 04:41, December 13, 2010 (UTC)
 * I's be a Christian-Jew, Marcus Villanova Music is Life.Lean Forward.Walden 21:36, December 13, 2010 (UTC)

Arsjief
It's getting really long. Please archive. 20:43, December 22, 2010 (UTC)


 * - Seems like most newspapers will do it in the new year ! Marcus Villanova Music is Life.Lean Forward.Walden 21:34, December 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * I plan to archive this thing the new year. Thanks for your concern, though. Edward Hannis [[File:CogHammer.gif]] 21:51, December 22, 2010 (UTC)

Ha me too ! Marcus Villanova Music is Life.Lean Forward.Walden 21:53, December 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * Don't forget the novine! :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 08:12, December 23, 2010 (UTC)

Second speech
There will be a second speech coming soon Pierlot McCrooke 17:57, December 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * I can't wait to read it, PM McCrooke. Pierius Magnus 18:05, December 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * Pierlot is newsworthy in a way unprecedented. To say the least. Edward Hannis [[File:CogHammer.gif]] 19:51, December 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * Without colourful people, there would be no news! Anyway, I must admit: he's got some balls to make this move. Naivety and cojones, a dangerous combination. Pierius Magnus 19:55, December 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * Finally i'm trying to be a good man Pierlot McCrooke 19:56, December 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * Naïve is only fun to say when there's the trema (from i to ï). Makes it sound like NA-EVE, rather than NEVE (the first 'e' sounds like the the first 'e' in "never"). Stupid little things like that interest me. Edward Hannis [[File:CogHammer.gif]] 17:35, December 24, 2010 (UTC)

Newsflash
Hello Hannis, I break the scoop to you second (Nova Times First =P) I hope for a CCPL-Walden Coalition, unless Yuri runs again for PM on the CPL.nm line. Pierlot is unqualified, when proposing laws he writes them badly, sorta active but would use his power to do alot bad. Allowing him to be PM is an anti-cable person that might turn people off the Country. He talks about people going away beacuse of Yuri and Dimi's tight rule, which is a lie, but his rule is too "loosey goosey" and might turn people off being in politics. In Other words, I hope that either Oos or another Waldener becomes PM.

- From Marcus Villanova Music is Life.Lean Forward.Walden 22:15, December 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * I don't know if you're the representation of Walden. You are not in position to make such a statement, which is why I will not put it up. Trustworthiness is key, and people only trust credibility. You can go ahead and broadcast that "newsflash", but it ain't making LQ, at least not until McCandless or Van Ghent have something to say, and they haven't made a decision. Edward Hannis [[File:CogHammer.gif]] 17:44, December 24, 2010 (UTC)
 * Doom awaits the sinner. Eternal damnation, fire and hell.
 * I'll bring marshmallows, make some s'mores. :D Edward Hannis [[File:CogHammer.gif]] 18:41, December 24, 2010 (UTC)

I'll bring some Hot Chocolate and we can sing around the campfire! ! Marcus Villanova Music is Life.Lean Forward.Walden 00:33, December 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * Can anyone play Imagine on the guitar? 07:48, December 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yeah, it's very simple to play :P --O u WTBsjrief-mich 09:32, December 26, 2010 (UTC)

Oooo I'm very good with the Acoustic!!! Tho I don't know the song my dad (A Beatles crazy Fan) could teach me...Oos you play lead, I'll play rthym!=P Marcus Villanova Music is Life.Lean Forward.Walden 17:29, December 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * I call piano. Edward Hannis [[File:CogHammer.gif]] 19:20, December 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * Cool, maybe we do a one time only event,=p Marcus Villanova Music is Life.Lean Forward.Walden 20:19, December 26, 2010 (UTC)

Leadership
Hannis, don't you get the feeling that what CPL.nm and Walden lack, most of all, is leadership, at this most critical moment in their existence so far? CPL.nm has: Walden, mostly the same thing. The commies currently have a leadership crisis: who's the boss, McCrooke or Medvedev? Pierius Magnus 22:47, December 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * 1) Nine members, only three of whom are active
 * 2) No official PM candidate
 * 3) Only three MOTC candidates - which will mean they'll lose big time, no matter what
 * I'd go with no one, honestly. Medvedev has remained respectfully neutral, even though he very likely has an opinion. It's too bad you can't express yourself and yet remain in neutrality. CPL.nm and Walden, in fact a majority of the nation at the moment, is fighting against inactivity, and that's what harms this nation the most. Edward Hannis [[File:CogHammer.gif]] 22:54, December 26, 2010 (UTC)

I somehow feel the whistle-blower affair is what, directly or indirectly, ignited the chain of events that lead to the demise of these two once powerful parties. Pierius Magnus 23:03, December 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * The whistleblower or the event itself? Walden, namely McCandless and van Ghent, was largely inactive before Latin came along. Same goes for CPL.nm. Edward Hannis [[File:CogHammer.gif]] 23:05, December 26, 2010 (UTC)

There were no trials. There were no people banned or outlawed. Villanova and McCrooke do their thing. So all is well in Lovia? Nah, I seriously doubt it. You know, the claim of corruption remains with Walden. The blend, the label; it's corrupted. Pierius Magnus 23:08, December 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * You think? I associate actions with the individual, not the party. That's not to say that Walden has never been up to shady business, but that individual act was by an individual, and though it was albeit done for the party and that the party should take responsibility for its members, it's not for the same price that we can say Walden is corrupted. Villanova has always been a rather unstable and in my opinion and is a far cry from the ideal member of our nation. Though I don't believe his a bad member, he has a tendency of being unhelpful, of low quality in terms of editing, and though the unpunished corruption case wasn't the final nail in the coffin, it was a severe blow to his integrity, something I think is priceless to any honest person. You need to be able to trust your politicians. Edward Hannis [[File:CogHammer.gif]] 23:17, December 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * @Pierius: strong leadership as a vital element in the party working is commonly associated with right-wing and populist parties. I have no doubt you deem it to be indispensable, but the CPL.nm is trying to be both progressive and rational. We don't even have a 'leader', everyone has equal power. 08:47, December 27, 2010 (UTC)

Great article
I find it also interesting to see that the new generation within the Walden Party (Villanova, Abrahams) suggests an all-round coalition with CCPL, while the oldies (McCandless) still desire a leftist progressive cooperation with CPL.nm, possibly combined with a minor centrist party. What will this division mean for Walden? Villanova's opinion is quite powerful too as he is a prominent member and he also owns a well-read newspaper. Bucu 10:58, December 28, 2010 (UTC)


 * Were still only in talks! CCPL is one choice and the three way (I know sounds sexy!!!) coalition is another choice...both proposed by Waldeners but still under disscussion. Both have Pro's and Con's, I'm leaning +CCPL but you never know! Marcus Villanova Music is Life.Lean Forward.Walden 15:27, December 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * So, secret talks I see ^^. Are we conservatives so scary? Cristian Latin 15:32, December 28, 2010 (UTC)

Secert talks? No all of them are on the WEC page. conservatives frighting? Nahh no way. Marcus Villanova Music is Life.Lean Forward.Walden 15:35, December 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * How do you mean? I see Johnson claims that there are some conversations going on about a WAL + LAP + CPL coalition. Maybe... you're not even informed by your party? Weird Cristian Latin 15:37, December 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * Whatever Johnson claims, all talks have been out in the open on this wiki :)) 15:40, December 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * Quoting Johnson: "We are at the border of starting a coalition with LAP and Walden [...]" JON THE DUDE JOHNSON 15:03, December 27, 2010 (UTC) on User talk:SjorskingmaWikistad. Also, see Image talk:Camp.jpg @colours. But if I understand it well, it's a loose claim? Funny. Cristian Latin 15:42, December 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * He's just an optimist, I reckon :). We've been closely cooperating and discussing with each of those parties for the last couple of days. He musta interpreted things like we were on the verge of a coalition. But like we said: let's wait with coalitions until the people have cast their votes :) 15:45, December 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * I see, @Andy, about pokemon colors - My favorite game was Platnium it had a felling like you were in the game. Marcus Villanova Music is Life.Lean Forward.Walden 15:48, December 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * As usual, thanks for posting comments on this page. Opinions described here often influence subsequent articles. As for my absence yesterday and a majority of today, I was on a ski trip again, (second one while in Lovia) this time in Snow Summit, CA. I'm currently trying to catch up with everything. Edward Hannis [[File:CogHammer.gif]] 01:51, December 29, 2010 (UTC)

The Defence of Walden
You portray us as making the wrong choice, which I can understand from your Christian-conservative perspective. We are, however, not on the way down. Walden has rapidly recovered from the "controversy" and we stand very strong with four active candidates. An alliance with the CPL.nm is a natural choice. You suggested we'd fill up "the gap in the middle", but we're not centrists, you see. We're progressives and so we stand in between those in the center and those on the extreme left.

Why we don't have our own PM candidate? Because none of us feels like doing it, I think. McCandless told me he wouldn't have the time, Justin is too new to politics, and Marcus could use his skills better in Congress then leading the government. Same for me. That's why we'll back Medvedev. The man with a plan. Martha Van Ghent 17:43, December 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * Allow me to quote McCandless, being the founder and having been party leader for a long time, probably the Waldener with the most influence and expectations:
 * We will need a PM candidate - we're Lovia's largest party! I propose that we wait with this until we know who are Congressial candidates will be. Andy McCandless (WALDEN) 15:14, November 15, 2010 (UTC)
 * And a reaction of his on my comment why Walden does not want to become the party of the center, between left and right, a bridge between left and right (see archived Walden Election Council):
 * well you know, that's what i was trying to say :). we should keep an open mind and think about liberals and other centrists too as our partners. if we do become the biggest party, we can actually choose! Andy McCandless (WALDEN) 21:08, October 7, 2010 
 * Of course it's a huge disappointment! Where is the spirit which you had after the State Elections? You just walk behind the Communists. With the Communists being the most important of your coalition, you'll just be in the shade of them. Cristian Latin 17:53, December 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * The left-right axis (socialists versus liberals) is not to be confused with the progressive-conservative axis. Walden is in the center of the first one but tends to the progressive side on the second one; 18:00, December 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * Though not fully familiar with the actual discourse, I would like to remark how awkward it is to speak of "most important" within a coalition that has not put forward a common agenda. One party might deliver the Prime Minister, still both parties remain equally independent once elected. Is it not? -- 18:02, December 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * Van Ghent, you are not portrayed as making the wrong choice. You just either go for A or B, left or right, black or white. There is no in-between. Me, personally, I think is very strange Marcus changed his mind today. He supported Oos in Oceana and he clearly has a warm relation with the CCPl. He is not afraid of conservatism, and has even spoken in it's favour. Was this all an act? Or does he perhaps have a double personality? On a personal level, I disagree with his decision. Politically? Eh, screw politics, politicians are not to be trusted, once again it's proven. Pierius Magnus 22:34, December 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * I think Marcus changed his mind upon the pressure of his party, and justifiably so; he doesn't want to be slowing down the progress of his party. The goodness in such a decision is debatable; there's a difference between compromise and indecisiveness. Edward Hannis [[File:CogHammer.gif]] 01:14, December 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * Nah, I don't buy it. Only the weak succumb to pressure. Besides: 50% was in favour of the coalition, and 50% against. Marcus and Justin favoured the CCPL-coalition. He should have tried to convince Martha and Andy if he really wanted this coalition to happen. Apparantly, he didn't. Pierius Magnus 07:27, December 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * Not to flatter myself, but Marcus changed his mind from the moment I stepped forward as PM candidate. As long as it was unclear who could become a common candidate he wanted to keep all possibilities open. Isn't that a good example of calculated politics? 08:19, December 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * He was very much against McCrooke running for PM, he has said that on multiple occasions. Apparantly PM Medeved does not seem to frighten young mr. Villanova. Pierius Magnus 08:22, December 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * Well, Pierlot was a leap into the unknown whereas I'm the established value. 08:24, December 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * The unknown, or the uncapable? In any case, the CPL.nm does not have many other veteran users with the expierence and leadership qualities required to unite the Congress and make it run as smooth as always. :) Pierius Magnus 08:28, December 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * We lost a few good men when we changed from PD into CPL.nm, but I don't regret that move. 08:35, December 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * I would agree. CPL.nm is less the "all-is-welcome-we're-somewhere-in-the-middle-party" and has become a true social-democratic force. Perhaps not as strong in numbers, but certainly stronger in ideas and initiatives. 08:50, December 30, 2010 (UTC)

Errror
There is an erro in your article. Voites should be points Pierlot McCrooke 18:58, January 1, 2011 (UTC)
 * I use them interchangeably intentionally. I want to keep them more or less synonymous, makes it easier. Edward Hannis  [[File:CogHammer.gif]] 19:09, January 1, 2011 (UTC)
 * It could confuse some people. I suggest you change it. Pierlot McCrooke 20:05, January 1, 2011 (UTC)
 * Nah. If I want to specifically say how many people vote for a person, I'll speak in terms of "people" rather than "votes/points". Else, it makes it sound like this is a game, not an election. Edward Hannis  [[File:CogHammer.gif]] 21:24, January 1, 2011 (UTC)

Yeah that would be funny if it was a game "And in the fourth quarter Oos was up 4-0 when out of no where Yuri wins 6-4! Amazing!!!" Haha Marcus Villanova Music is Life.Lean Forward.Walden 22:32, January 1, 2011 (UTC)
 * Fourth quarter? That's most likely football. How the heck did Oos get 4 points? Two safeties? :P Edward Hannis  [[File:CogHammer.gif]] 22:43, January 1, 2011 (UTC)

Yeah, he blind sided Yuri's QB twice in the endzone and then at the last second Yuri's Team scored a touchdown on a pass to Dimi Marcus Villanova Music is Life.Lean Forward.Walden 22:45, January 1, 2011 (UTC)
 * He should've had that crazy black guy from the hood from The Blind Side help him out. For our analogy, we could say that black man is Ygo. Even though he's supposed to be on the other team... ah, forget it. Btw, The Blind Side was among the worst movies ever seen on a plane. Behind "Dinner for Smucks", maybe. The French version, Le Diner de Cons, is freaking hilarious. Edward Hannis  [[File:CogHammer.gif]] 22:52, January 1, 2011 (UTC)

The worst movie I saw in the last year was Avatar ponytial tree sex? It made no sense just like Incepton, not so bad but okay. Marcus Villanova Music is Life.Lean Forward.Walden 01:49, January 2, 2011 (UTC)
 * I agree with Marcus here. Both of those films where described as 'masterpieces' by renowned movie critics, but I really don't get what the fuss is about. Especially Avatar was só predictable - one big cliché with a layer of environmentalism painted over it to make sure people who say the movie sucks feel very bad. What a lame director that Cameron is... 08:03, January 2, 2011 (UTC)

Avatar, if you ask me, was nothing more then just "Dances with Wolves\Pocahontas" meets E.T. The only difference was a bunch of ugly alien monsters and the fact that they made the Native Inhabitants blue and nine feet tall and the invaders fly in spaceshuttles. Very lame indeed. Pierius Magnus 08:46, January 2, 2011 (UTC)
 * Its motives are as old as speech: two people from different worlds meet, they fall in love but simply can't be together. Yet they do get together. Sounds familiar? (Any connection to the thousands of lame movies you might possibly have seen is purely coincidental)  08:52, January 2, 2011 (UTC)

Yeah.lol but i must say the Boy Meets girl story has changed:
 * Aborignial Story - Boy meets girl, girl is eaten, boy is hungry.
 * Nordic Story - Boy meets girl, boy signs at girl for 50 minutes, girl sings at boy for 30 minutes. Both are hungry so they eat mutten.
 * Shakepearean - Boy meets girl, girl fakes death do to class difference, boy sees girl dead;kills self, girl sees boys dead...kills self. All are dead.
 * Now - Boy meets girl, both are mentally stupid. They try to be funny, after settleing differences they get married. Marcus Villanova Music is Life.Lean Forward.Walden 15:29, January 2, 2011 (UTC)
 * I had to laugh big-time when I read this Percival E. Galahad 15:44, January 2, 2011 (UTC)

Thanks Marcus Villanova Music is Life.Lean Forward.Walden 16:24, January 2, 2011 (UTC)


 * @Marcus: There's a difference between "complicated" and "makes no sense". Granted, you have to think about Inception. The screenwriter, Christopher Nolan, also made Memento and The Dark Knight. You have to think in levels: reality is the plane, level 1 is the van chase scene, level 2 is the hotel, level 3 is the snowy base, and level 4 is the weird place built by Cobb (DiCaprio) and Mal (forgot her real name). Best part of the film was that French song. Non! Rien de rien, je ne regrette rien. :D Edward Hannis  [[File:CogHammer.gif]] 17:19, January 2, 2011 (UTC)
 * @Medvedev: When you create the highest-budget film in the history of humanity, you don't really take risks. But c'mon, Cameron has a few good, riskier, films behind him. Abyss? Aliens? Titanic?! You gotta give him some credit for those other ones. Edward Hannis  [[File:CogHammer.gif]] 17:19, January 2, 2011 (UTC)

I liked Abyss and Titanic very good. But Avartar was a 3D head-ache of stupid aliens in Dancing with Wolves. Marcus Villanova Music is Life.Lean Forward.Walden 17:23, January 2, 2011 (UTC)
 * I'm not saying that Avatar was anything like Citizen Kane or Pulp Fiction or anything, but it's nonetheless good. Yes, it's predictable, but so are almost all films. I can actually tell you just about everything that happens in a movie, by the page it is on the screenplay. Not exaggerating. Movies are formulaic. Edward Hannis  [[File:CogHammer.gif]] 17:39, January 2, 2011 (UTC)

They don't make movies like they use to, do they? Marcus Villanova Music is Life.Lean Forward.Walden 17:45, January 2, 2011 (UTC)