Cassiopeia

Cassiopeia was a Lovian think tank that was set up by the Progressive Democrats after they started their 2010 federal elections campaign. It was named after Cassiopeia who was the queen of Ethiopia in Greek mythology. Her name means 'she whose words excel'. The think tank was part of the new party strategy and was expected to be a forum for discussion between party members and, occasionally, outsiders.

New Party Line

If you have any comments or suggestions on the new party line, style or strategy you can start a topic here. This forum is meant for decent critics and any inappropriate remarks shall be removed. This forum can also be used by non-members.

• I have second thoughts on the party's proposal to introduce "civil teachings" in class. We should not teach our children to be civil, we should teach them to be critical, academic, and open-minded. - Arthur Jefferson

  Please note that the subject of Civic Teachings is a combination of economy, sociology, etc. (Civic Teachings) and not a lesson in politeness. I am certain the subject will make a good basis for critical and open-minded thought. - Regaliorum _{(Shō Kitana)}

  Oh. In that case! I have good news for you, concerning this matter. In the Primary Education Act, our King has included a course called 'Everyday Life', which includes teachings on food, relations and all kinds of things. For Secondary Education, there's no such plan yet - but there will be a council deciding on the courses that are to be taught. I am positive the Lovians will agree on a more academic 'Everyday Life' course, more like 'Civics'. - Arthur Jefferson 14:39, December 5, 2009 (UTC)

• Our image must be rather 'left' with such a party emblem. Not that I mind, but I believe we are clearly centrum-left. Perhaps we could make clear what other parties are our 'natural allies'? - Alyssa C. Red

  Why did I have to pick that color again? Never mind, I will just have to keep saying we are a centre party. It seems pretty obvious that all democratic parties are 'allies'. Besides, in Lovia political parties are merely platforms from which the politicians can (co)operate. - Regaliorum _{(Shō Kitana)}

  This seems like a complot against some parties - Pierlot McCrooke

  I am sorry if I expressed myself wrong Pierlot, I just meant that this party (Progressive Democrats) has no problem to work together with other parties that defend a democratic system where the people can decide. - Regaliorum _{(Shō Kitana)}

  Ill thought it was your rivals Pierlot McCrooke

  On the contrary, only parties that want a dictator, absolute monarch, etc. are 'enemies' to us. I don't believe Lovia has such parties, though I am not certain what the position of the LCP is. - Regaliorum _{(Shō Kitana)}

• This party should seriously think about changing its logo, the left image it gives scares a lot of people Harold Freeman

  I am getting tired of explaining that this is NOT a socialist party. Since tattooing our foreheads isn't such a good idea we should consider changing the color of the logo. I'll organize a poll, non-members can vote too. (Voting) - Regaliorum _{(Shō Kitana)}

  It will hardly be a surprise that I have my regrets, right? Nonetheless, I know you act in the best interest of the party. - Alyssa C. Red

• ...

2010 Campaign

If you have any comments or suggestions on our program or campaign for the 2010 federal elections you can start a topic here. This forum is meant for decent critics and any inappropriate remarks shall be removed. This forum can also be used by non-members.

• It would be best if we (party members) all support one candidate to become Prime Minister, someone from our party of course. - Alyssa C. Red

  No doubt it would be nice, but every member should be free to decide on his own shouldn't he? - Regaliorum _{(Shō Kitana)}

  It came to my attention that other parties actually are putting forward 'their' candidate. We are not following them in this unless there would be a (large enough) demand for that? Regaliorum _{(Shō Kitana)}

• We should end our campaign with a party (the one with music and booze) I like to organize it if you guys agree Alyssa C. Red

  A party? I hope we will be able to make it to Congress the day after! Regaliorum _{(Shō Kitana)}

  Would a man of the competition such as myself be welcome too? Harold Freeman 13:00, January 11, 2010 (UTC)

  Why not? Please do note that there should not be a party if not all of our (running) members make it to Congress. Regaliorum _{(Shō Kitana)} 13:26, January 12, 2010 (UTC)

  Pro. --Arthur Jefferson 07:10, January 13, 2010 (UTC)

  How could we practically organize this? Regaliorum _{(Shō Kitana)} 16:09, January 13, 2010 (UTC)

  A real life party would be fun but isn't very nice for the people who can't come. A little festivity in the pub? Our party could finance a round or two, not? Alyssa C. Red 08:30, January 14, 2010 (UTC)

  Sure, why not. Regaliorum _{(Shō Kitana)} 11:57, January 14, 2010 (UTC)

• ...

Reform Proposal

The Progressive Democrats have a thorough reform of the current political system on their agenda. We would like to construct a concrete proposal that can be made after the elections. Because such a topic needs serious thought, we already started this discussion. This forum can also be used by non-members

• This proposal will contain several changes to constitutional articles, but it should be handled as one 'umbrella proposal' - Regaliorum _{(Shō Kitana)}
• The Congress must consist of two parts, one representing the people and one for the states. This way, the current bureaucracy of state laws, federal laws and constitution can be narrowed down. - Regaliorum _{(Shō Kitana)}
• Merging Train Village with Noble City; Sofasi with Kinley; Clymene with Seven; Dep. of Justice with Dep. of Welfare; the National Park Service with the National Monument Service; Dep.s of Industry, Agriculture and Trade, Finance and Tourism and Leisure - Pierlot McCrooke

  I believe this is perhaps a bit too much, if you centralize like this you get too many power with too few people. I do support the creation of a combined 'Heritage Service' and a - though not this big - revision of the departments. - Regaliorum _{(Shō Kitana)}

  I am Supporting evrything and the departments we wil merge can be good combined. - Pierlot McCrooke

  You can't simply merge a couple of towns, that's not a serious point of view. You want to move San Francisco to Miami? -Bucurestean

  That is not comprable all the town we will merge are very near the the towns they will merge with - Pierlot McCrooke

  There are always people for and against a proposal and though I do not support the merging of several towns/cities, I do feel Pierlot has the right to propose it. The people/congress will then decide whetter it will be accepted or not. I believe that the majority will not support such a proposal though. - Regaliorum _{(Shō Kitana)}

  I didn't say he doesn't have the right to propose something, I'm happy he's willing to contribute actively, but I find it a bit difficult to move a town a couple of miles to the south. Please, don't get me wrong. Maybe I sounded a bit harsh. --Bucurestean

  It isn't impossible (on a wiki ) and I do see that there are some advantages, but there are other ways to get the same results: less police departments etc. - Regaliorum _{(Shō Kitana)}

  Bucu the merger is like the municipial reforms in The Netherlands Pierlot McCrooke

  Ah, that way. Maybe it's easier to give the State more influence, the Mayor less. The same result (in Sylvania though). --Bucurestean

• The Progressive Democrats should consider a direct democracy, where every citizen seats in Congress, for only a direct democracy would be a real one Alyssa C. Red

  This subject is very delicate, but you could give your opinion in Congress once the reform proposals are made. Regaliorum _{(Shō Kitana)}

• ...

Our own identity?

As the small oversight on my sandpit shows, the Progressive Democrats are divided over two main political currents. My question is: can this situation continue? Shouldn't we be working on what we could call our identity? As the sole party to represent the leftist current we have a duty to fulfill. Fellow members, what are your opinions? Regaliorum _{(Shō Kitana)} 19:02, February 21, 2010 (UTC)

Maybe we should release some polls to know what the different views in the party are, some questions for every member to know what his personal points of view are, it would not only help the sole person, but the whole party! Jon Johnson 08:44, February 22, 2010 (UTC)

A good idea indeed. I'll spend some time thinking this through. Regaliorum _{(Shō Kitana)} 14:22, February 22, 2010 (UTC)

Here are some questions for our poll. Please vote '{{pro}}' for yes and '{{contra}}' for no. You can also leave your comment behind the vote. Regaliorum _{(Shō Kitana)} 14:43, February 22, 2010 (UTC)

1. Are the Progressive Democrats progressive enough in their views/program?

• Contra I think we need to reform the state, the government should have more control on what is happening in the country Jon Johnson 15:08, February 22, 2010 (UTC)
• Contra We have the most leftist members in Lovia, but our official program does not comply with that. Regaliorum _{(Shō Kitana)} 15:26, February 22, 2010 (UTC)
• NeutralNot an option but we've won the PM spot and are doing okay but always could do betterJohn Couplaohla 23:44, February 22, 2010 (UTC)
• ProSure what party is always winning elections?!?Marcus Villanova 23:09, February 26, 2010 (UTC)
• Contra I'm new here but I know there not progressive enough.George Uzux 21:21, February 27, 2010 (UTC)
• Pro Yes, rather. --Arthur Jefferson 16:10, March 5, 2010 (UTC)

2. Are the Progressive Democrats progressive enough in the actual policy?

• Contra I don't feel the actual presence of the party, whereas it is the largest ~party of the country. Jon Johnson 15:08, February 22, 2010 (UTC)
• Pro I think that, under the current circumstances we always defended our position, only leftist proposals are missing in this picture. Regaliorum _{(Shō Kitana)} 15:26, February 22, 2010 (UTC)
• ProYah, I agree with Yuri. John Couplaohla 23:44, February 22, 2010 (UTC)
• Pro Yep! Marcus Villanova 23:09, February 26, 2010 (UTC)
• ContraNo, question 1 and 2 are about the same. George Uzux 21:21, February 27, 2010 (UTC)
• Pro We are the only party actually writing and proposing reform proposals! --Arthur Jefferson 16:10, March 5, 2010 (UTC)

3. Do you feel there is a schism between a left and right wing of the party?

• Pro In Lovia there is only one large party, and in order to have great political succes, you need to join this party, so many lovian citizens join the party which results in diverse points of view. Jon Johnson 15:08, February 22, 2010 (UTC)
• Pro Schism might be a description of a category too high, but there definitely are contradictions I hope our party can overcome. Regaliorum _{(Shō Kitana)} 15:26, February 22, 2010 (UTC)
• NeutralI was once a member of the Lovian Republicans and the LCRP and they had liberal views like ours very similar, but there aren't very much right winged party.John Couplaohla 23:44, February 22, 2010 (UTC)
• Pro I also once was a member of the LCRP and we had the same exact views! Marcus Villanova 23:09, February 26, 2010 (UTC)
• Pro Yes! Yes! Yes! George Uzux 21:21, February 27, 2010 (UTC)
• Contra A schism? --Arthur Jefferson 16:10, March 5, 2010 (UTC)

4. Would you prefer a more leftist course over the current more liberal views?

• Pro No comment Jon Johnson 15:08, February 22, 2010 (UTC)
• Pro In the past we have been too afraid of the public opinion. We need to convince the world, not otherwise! Regaliorum _{(Shō Kitana)} 15:27, February 22, 2010 (UTC)
• ProGAY RIGHTS NOW! MORE LEFTIST VIEWS!John Couplaohla 23:44, February 22, 2010 (UTC)
• Pro Marcus Villanova 23:09, February 26, 2010 (UTC)
• Pro George Uzux 21:21, February 27, 2010 (UTC)
• Neutral --Arthur Jefferson 16:10, March 5, 2010 (UTC)

It seems there is a strong need for a more outspoken image of the inner views that drive us. I would however like to wait a little while longer to do anything because two members still haven't spoken their mind. Regaliorum _{(Shō Kitana)} 08:16, February 23, 2010 (UTC)

Results

In spite of the fact that two people still haven't given their opinion, I would already like to take a look at the results. This party has grown over the past few weeks and I believe (though I'll have to check) we are the largest party once more! There also is a strong bias towards a more outspoken party identity. To achieve this, there will be a review (and perhaps change?) of our parties official opinions. I also ordered a campaign by Creative, the designer bureau of Jon Johnson. I also have one final question: should or should we not return to our old logo, which futures bright red instead of green? Regaliorum _{(Shō Kitana)} 13:11, February 27, 2010 (UTC)

It depends in how much we change the party, are we talking fundamental changes or are we just about to redefine some of our views? Jon Johnson 14:06, February 27, 2010 (UTC)

We had to change our logo in the past because of associations with socialists. I figured that a more outspoken leftist view could mean a return of the original logo. Regaliorum _{(Shō Kitana)} 14:24, February 27, 2010 (UTC)

Which contained red? Jon Johnson 14:38, February 27, 2010 (UTC)

Which was red, with white text. Regaliorum _{(Shō Kitana)} 14:48, February 27, 2010 (UTC)

I think we have two possible directions: or we take the red logo or we do a complete style change! Jon Johnson 15:44, February 27, 2010 (UTC)

Fair trade legislation

Democrat and conservative strongholds

As a member of the Progressive Democrats, I would like to propose the following to my dearest party members, to be added to our party program:

Introducing a legal framework for fair-trade products, in a way that they will get a tax benefit, or that non-fair-trade products will be taxed more. Unfair trade is making poor farmers and worker even more poor - and that is not something "progressive" or "democratic".

Would my kindest party colleagues consider this issues, please? --Arthur Jefferson 18:17, March 22, 2010 (UTC)

I am agreeing with Mr. Jefferson and his new plan but here is a crudley drawn map of Lovia.

Red= The LD Republicanism, or Conservative powerhouses

Blue= Liberals such as the PD, WLP or liberals(LCP to), Marcus Villanova

Fair trade should indeed get a legal framework to support these issues. A difference in taxes is just a beginning. Government should use fair trade products themselves (coffee, fruit juice, peanut butter, ...) and we could even block the Lovian market from companies that are known to be exploiting the poor. @Marcus: what are you suggesting? I hope not a civil war? Regaliorum _{(Shō Kitana)} 09:13, March 23, 2010 (UTC)

That would be interesting and exciting though :P Bucurestean 13:44, March 23, 2010 (UTC)

@Yuri: No,no,no,no,no i'm stating the facts... Maybe we should start campaining there more you know...

@Mr.Jefferson: sorry didn't mean to take anything away to your issue I'm not a MOTC but I fully agree!

Oh and just saying... USA finally got health care for all!(not universal but it's a start)Marcus Villanova 22:01, March 23, 2010 (UTC)

Official poll

The political landscape has changed again and there's no way of telling what it will look like over a month. Since we can expect mid-term elections this summer it would be nice if we repositioned ourselves and update our views. This goes especially for our 'junior members' who haven't a seat in Congress (yet). A little poll:

1. Should the PD support - and I guess also write - laws on banning undemocratic parties (like the IGP) and nationalizing key industries (like energy)?

Pro Regaliorum _{(Shō Kitana)} 16:37, April 2, 2010 (UTC)

Pro Alyssa C. Red 09:22, April 4, 2010 (UTC)

Contra --Arthur Jefferson 15:02, April 4, 2010 (UTC)

Pro Jon Johnson 14:45, April 6, 2010 (UTC)

Contra Marcus Villanova 23:18, April 7, 2010 (UTC)

2. Should the PD declare an intellectual war (proactive commenting, polemics, etc.) against rightist views and conservative moral?

Pro Regaliorum _{(Shō Kitana)} 16:37, April 2, 2010 (UTC)

Pro Alyssa C. Red 09:22, April 4, 2010 (UTC)

Neutral --Arthur Jefferson 15:02, April 4, 2010 (UTC) (I dislike the whole idea of war.)

Pro Jon Johnson 14:45, April 6, 2010 (UTC)

Pro Marcus Villanova 23:18, April 7, 2010 (UTC)

3. How would you describe your own political views? A few possibilities: democrat - socialist - communist - no idea - ...

Neo-marxist Regaliorum _{(Shō Kitana)} 16:37, April 2, 2010 (UTC)

Socialist Alyssa C. Red 09:22, April 4, 2010 (UTC)

Progressive or Social-liberal. --Arthur Jefferson 15:02, April 4, 2010 (UTC)

Hm. I can only notice a certain dichotomy in the PD... Dimitri 15:07, April 4, 2010 (UTC)

Typical for leftist movements Regaliorum _{(Shō Kitana)} 14:06, April 5, 2010 (UTC)

Titoist, I'd like some more leftism, but not in a way you destroy yourself economically speaking. Jon Johnson 14:45, April 6, 2010 (UTC)

We sure are a crazy bunch of people, I never would have guessed we had a Titoist in our ranks. Regaliorum _{(Shō Kitana)} 06:01, April 7, 2010 (UTC)

Crazy indeed Dimitri 07:07, April 7, 2010 (UTC)

Commie.Marcus Villanova 23:18, April 7, 2010 (UTC)

Results and conclusion

logo proposal

An overwhelming majority - 80% to be exact - of the PD positions itself on the far-left end of the political spectrum. Because of this, and the lack of a strong left movement in Lovia (the LCP seems to have split up somehow?), I would like to transform the "Progressive Democrats" into the "Communist Party of Lovia (Neo-Marxist)". Please note that neo-marxist signifies 'a bunch of marxist-based ideologies with democratic amendments', this to respect (1) the diversity of our leftist thoughts and (2) the democratic traditions of our party. Is there any opposition to this proposal?

• Pro, 100% leftism at last! Regaliorum _{(Shō Kitana)} 15:45, April 17, 2010 (UTC)
• Yuri that's a sexy logo! ummmm yay Pro Marcus Villanova 15:59, April 17, 2010 (UTC)

(If what you mean is combining the LCP and PD then yay yay!)Marcus Villanova 15:59, April 17, 2010 (UTC)

The LCP seems to have dismissed itself, I read something like 'the LCP had nine members until it broke apart'. Old LCP members can always join our ranks and I guess our program will need to have an update too. Regaliorum _{(Shō Kitana)} 16:01, April 17, 2010 (UTC)

cool. Lets make it offical who cares about the others i love the idea!Marcus Villanova 16:19, April 17, 2010 (UTC)

We need just one more vote and I'm sure we will get the support of mr. Johnson who is after all a communist too. Regaliorum _{(Shō Kitana)} 16:31, April 17, 2010 (UTC)

yay then i'm guessing there would be a CPL page?Marcus Villanova 16:34, April 17, 2010 (UTC)

Indeed, I will move the PD pages to the past tense and write a new one on the CPL. Regaliorum _{(Shō Kitana)} 16:35, April 17, 2010 (UTC)

Oh and when it said nine members it ment like Shane Dawson i created him but he's not like marcus or yuri. you know right.Marcus Villanova 16:36, April 17, 2010 (UTC)

A bit like Jonathan Frum who might just join the CPL too... Regaliorum _{(Shō Kitana)} 16:38, April 17, 2010 (UTC)

yay but seriously have you ever seen a shane dawson video on youtube?he's really funny!Marcus Villanova 16:40, April 17, 2010 (UTC)

I'll google him on a minute (and yes that is a recognized verb ) Regaliorum _{(Shō Kitana)} 16:41, April 17, 2010 (UTC)

hun probaly that's why i hate english studies so many rules i'll never use oh and a head's up he's really vulgar and obsence. I like that kind of humor...weird.Marcus Villanova 16:44, April 17, 2010 (UTC)

I prefer some more subtle humor, something most Belgian comedians lack. I also like Youp Van 't Hek, the Dutch comedian. And don't bother those rules, I too suck at grammar. Just try to watch BBC, English movies without subtitles, etc. You will be surprised of what you pick up without actually having to study. Regaliorum _{(Shō Kitana)} 16:48, April 17, 2010 (UTC)

yay my mom is a Anglophile. She loves the brits if we were rich we would get bbc but since the stupid conservatives always want money for the rich... sorry i was babaling. ALso luck you live in europe with univeral health care...Marcus Villanova 16:53, April 17, 2010 (UTC)

• Very much pro! Jon Johnson 17:00, April 17, 2010 (UTC)
• ...

We have enough votes but I will wait until tomorrow to create the page. I still have some preparations to make. Congratulations guys, we just made our move to the left! Regaliorum _{(Shō Kitana)} 17:01, April 17, 2010 (UTC)

Yay! but we should talk to DR.M to make sure he's on board!Marcus Villanova 17:04, April 17, 2010 (UTC)

Resignation

My dearest Chairman, members of the Progressive Democrats, fellow Lovians,

I am delighted by the prospect of the Progressives as a united and strong faction within Congress. This will be a great achievement and you certainly have my congratulations.

You will however understand that I am characterized by another political ideology. Whether it is called liberalism, social liberalism, progressive liberalism, liberal progressivism, pacifism, libertarianism or environmentalism, it clearly is not neo-marxist communism. That is why, dear comrades (wink), I will within a short term leave the Progressive Democrats. I hope you will excuse me this counternatural act. I have been a proud Progressive for most of my time in Lovia and I will speak no bad word of the party nor its successor.

In concrete, I will officially resign from the party when its name, policy and logo definitely change. From that moment on, I will be an independent in Congress. I might consider joining another faction, but for now I do not feel the need to do so.

I wish all of you the best of luck, and I am convinced you will fare well!

Best, --Arthur Jefferson 17:03, April 17, 2010 (UTC)

I must admit I saw this coming, but it is best for everyone to follow his feelings (or thoughts for that matter). We too wish you the best of luck and hope to become even better friends now we are no longer bound by our old ties. Regaliorum _{(Shō Kitana)} 17:10, April 17, 2010 (UTC)

(edit conflict) I am glad to hear that. I will most steadily attempt to maintain our strong bond. Oh, and by the way, Sir Prime Minister, have you considered the option of introducing a bicameral system in Lovia lately? I am still willing to push for that reform. --Arthur Jefferson 17:13, April 17, 2010 (UTC)

Ohhh man The left is down to 3 in congress. Yuri can you talk to Dimi to have a special election for peilot and Heniss's seat.Marcus Villanova 17:12, April 17, 2010 (UTC)

I am still on the center-left, Sir Villanova . Just not on the far-left. --Arthur Jefferson 17:14, April 17, 2010 (UTC)

I believe the constitution prescribes that the PM organizes mid-term elections. Since some people left and others have joined this would be a proper time, no? I will talk to Dimitri about this. @Arthur: I don't know if we can get enough support for such a proposal, what do you say? Regaliorum _{(Shō Kitana)} 17:16, April 17, 2010 (UTC)

Considering the fact that me and jon are the only other two active members we could always win quickly...Marcus Villanova 17:19, April 17, 2010 (UTC)

Don't forget other recently joined users who might want to use the opportunity, like Percival. Regaliorum _{(Shō Kitana)} 17:21, April 17, 2010 (UTC)

I guess also i asked my irish buddy to join he made that principality of wales pageMarcus Villanova 17:24, April 17, 2010 (UTC)

Good thing, the more the merrier! I however doubt he can make pages on Wales over here Regaliorum _{(Shō Kitana)} 17:26, April 17, 2010 (UTC)

Yay Arthur already made it a candidate for deletion... It was a army like thing, i mean i think lovia should have a military that is volentary with like 20 members.Marcus Villanova 17:29, April 17, 2010 (UTC)

I would agree if it was a civil one, one that helps when there are floods or earthquakes. Regaliorum _{(Shō Kitana)} 17:33, April 17, 2010 (UTC)

Agreed.=]. If i ever get into the MOTC which can happen if we have a quick election i would propose that.!!Marcus Villanova 17:37, April 17, 2010 (UTC)

also i want to propose a new hamlet and voting act where we would add on like 2 or three more hamlets.Marcus Villanova 18:07, April 17, 2010 (UTC)

So the LCP is over and done with... this news greatly saddens the Donia Clan.

Upon hearing the news, the Baron of Donia has announced his retirement from politics. He will join a monestery and spend the rest of his days as a monk. The "Red Baron" wishes his Neo-Marxist comrades all the luck in the world and hopes for a "glorious red revolution" in politics. He himself, however, will no longer be a part of it. I will leave the congress and a replacement should be found for the Tourism & Leisure department secretary. Dr. Magnus 13:48, April 18, 2010 (UTC)

=[ NO NOT MAGNUS don't leave!Marcus Villanova 13:53, April 18, 2010 (UTC)

It is his own choice I believe. It is a bit strange that is true but he will follow the path he wishes. Of course the door is always open to join! Jon Johnson 15:36, April 18, 2010 (UTC)

Join the LASUPAC or LMFPAC?Marcus Villanova 15:45, April 18, 2010 (UTC)

I am very buisy at the moment creating some stuff which will come on-line soon, so I'll wait a bit before I join new things. Sorry Jon Johnson 16:07, April 18, 2010 (UTC)

Is it Lovia stuff if so great!Marcus Villanova 16:09, April 18, 2010 (UTC)

It is Lovia stuff :p Jon Johnson 21:57, April 18, 2010 (UTC)